Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: [Friesland-genealogy] napoleonic decree of 1811

Expand Messages
  • H. Kuiphof
    Wil je zo vriendelijk zijn ook even na te gaan of er een Kuiphof of een Kuyphoff in het genoemde boek staan ? Bij voorbaat hartelijk dank Vriendelijke groeten
    Message 1 of 20 , Jul 8 1:16 AM
      Wil je zo vriendelijk zijn ook even na te gaan of er een Kuiphof of een
      Kuyphoff in het genoemde boek staan ? Bij voorbaat hartelijk dank
      Vriendelijke groeten / kindly regards
      H. Kuiphof, Holland

      -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
      Van: Bram Sonneveld <bso@...>
      Aan: Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com <Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com>
      Datum: vrijdag 7 juli 2000 21:16
      Onderwerp: Re: [Friesland-genealogy] napoleonic decree of 1811


      >Dianne,
      >
      >According to the book De Nederlandsche Geslachtsnamen (The Dutch surnames),
      >by J. Winkler, the book is from 1885, but still the best in this field, the
      >name Walta may either by derived from the word "woud", which means 'wood',
      >the Frisian word for it is ';wald' or 'walt', so Walta means 'from the
      >wood', the second possibility is that the name comes from the mensname
      >'Walte' or 'Woldo' and then it is a patronimicum.
      >Bram Sonneveld
      >-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
      >Van: Dianne.W.Hart@... <Dianne.W.Hart@...>
      >Aan: Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com <Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com>
      >Datum: vrijdag 7 juli 2000 19:06
      >Onderwerp: RE: [Friesland-genealogy] napoleonic decree of 1811
      >
      >
      >>Matthias,
      >>
      >>My maiden name is Walta. Although the name pops up in history books
      >referring to
      >>a period around 1500 and some mummies in Wiewerd are called Waltas and one
      >can
      >>see the name on the streets in Tjerkwerd, the name apparently was not in
      >use
      >>prior to 1811 according to a genealogist. That makes me wonder if someone
      >simply
      >>applied the name Walta to people/soldiers/mummies/streets AFTER 1811.
      >>
      >>Thank you for your prompt response!
      >>
      >>Dianne
      >>
      >>-----Original Message-----
      >>From: MCTeichert@... [mailto:MCTeichert@...]
      >>Sent: Friday, July 07, 2000 9:40 AM
      >>To: Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com
      >>Subject: Re: [Friesland-genealogy] napoleonic decree of 1811
      >>
      >>
      >>Dianne,
      >>
      >>Nobility and wealthy farmers did use a surname and often towns folk too.
      >With
      >>each century, up to 1811, more and more people used surnames. Most common
      >>people didn't have surnames. Traditionally Frisians have sued a patronymic
      >>names like, Tjerk Jans (Jan'son'). Their first name usually came from
      their
      >>mother's father. There is more to the tradition than what I explained
      here.
      >>Even when families did use a formal surname, they contiued to use this
      >>tradition. For example, my grandfather was Jacob Jans de Hoog, his father
      >was
      >>Jan Tjerks de Hoog, and his mother's father was Jacob Hoeksma.
      >>
      >>In my experience (I may be wrong) a larger number of towns people used
      >Dutch
      >>surnames prior to 1811. Can anyone comment?
      >>
      >>Frisian names ending with -sma, -ma, -inga, -inia (really an -inga), -da
      >are
      >>patronymic. Although there are exceptions, non-patronymic -sma and -ma
      >names
      >>likes my gr-grandmother's maiden name Hoeksma. Names ending with -stra,
      are
      >>origin names (I think -na is an origin ending too). If you would like,
      send
      >>me a list of your Frisian surnames and I can probably tell what most of
      >them
      >>mean.
      >>
      >>Matthias Teichert
      >>Minneapolis, MN
      >>MCTeichert@...
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>------------------------------------------------------------------------
      >>Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and find your ancestors now.
      >>Search over 550 million names and trace your family tree today. Click
      here:
      >>http://click.egroups.com/1/6254/12/_/567109/_/962988065/
      >>------------------------------------------------------------------------
      >>
      >>Genealogy yn Fryslân: http://members1.chello.nl/~a.stienstra/frgen/
      >>of: http://go.to/frgen .
      >>
      >>------------------------------------------------------------------------
      >>Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and find your ancestors now.
      >>Search over 550 million names and trace your family tree today. Click
      here:
      >>http://click.egroups.com/1/6254/12/_/567109/_/962989407/
      >>------------------------------------------------------------------------
      >>
      >>Genealogy yn Fryslân: http://members1.chello.nl/~a.stienstra/frgen/
      >>of: http://go.to/frgen .
      >>
      >
      >
      >------------------------------------------------------------------------
      >Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and find your ancestors now.
      >Search over 550 million names and trace your family tree today. Click here:
      >http://click.egroups.com/1/6254/12/_/567109/_/962997394/
      >------------------------------------------------------------------------
      >
      >Genealogy yn Fryslân: http://members1.chello.nl/~a.stienstra/frgen/
      >of: http://go.to/frgen .
      >
    • Gerda
      Dear Rinske In our family the custom is also followed, but with exceptions. My great grandfather married twice, his first wife died with childbirth, but the
      Message 2 of 20 , Jul 8 2:45 AM
        Dear Rinske

        In our family the custom is also followed, but with exceptions. My
        great grandfather married twice, his first wife died with childbirth,
        but the child survived and was named Jetske, after her mother. When gr
        grandfather married again, his first two daughters were named after
        the maternal and paternal grandmothers respectively, but then the
        child from the first marriage died at age seven, and the next daughter
        was named after her. This Jetske was a full sister sister of my
        grandmother Maaike. When my grandmother married her sister Jetske had
        also passed away, as had the paternal grandmother, so the paternal
        grandmother was named first, then the sister, and after those the
        maternal grandmother who was still alive at the time.

        My grandmother always went to great lengths to explain that the naming
        protocol was reversed, and who was named after whom in the family. I
        have heard that this is particularly true of the "Doopsgezinden",
        which this family was, but haven't had this explained to me yet.

        In other families I have found that pre-deceased children are also
        renamed several times. The ten Brink's had three sons named Johannes
        (none survived the first year)

        Regards

        Gerda

        .

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Hans & Rinske Van Brederode" <van.brederode@...>
        To: <Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com>
        Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2000 2:13 AM
        Subject: Re: [Friesland-genealogy] napoleonic decree of 1811


        > Hello Matthias.
        > According to our Friesian family history the naming of the children
        went thus:
        > the first son was names after the father's father, the second son
        after the
        > mother's father, the first daughter after the mothers mother and the
        second
        > daughter after the father's mother. After that the parents
        sibling's names were
        > used.
        > Does anyone else have the same custom in the family?
        > Rinske van Brederode
        > Barrie, Ontario, Canada
        >
        >
        > MCTeichert@... wrote:
        >
        > > Dianne,
        > >
        > > Nobility and wealthy farmers did use a surname and often towns
        folk too. With
        > > each century, up to 1811, more and more people used surnames. Most
        common
        > > people didn't have surnames. Traditionally Frisians have sued a
        patronymic
        > > names like, Tjerk Jans (Jan'son'). Their first name usually came
        from their
        > > mother's father. There is more to the tradition than what I
        explained here.
        > > Even when families did use a formal surname, they contiued to use
        this
        > > tradition. For example, my grandfather was Jacob Jans de Hoog, his
        father was
        > > Jan Tjerks de Hoog, and his mother's father was Jacob Hoeksma.
        > >
        > > In my experience (I may be wrong) a larger number of towns people
        used Dutch
        > > surnames prior to 1811. Can anyone comment?
        > >
        > > Frisian names ending with -sma, -ma, -inga, -inia (really
        an -inga), -da are
        > > patronymic. Although there are exceptions, non-patronymic -sma
        and -ma names
        > > likes my gr-grandmother's maiden name Hoeksma. Names ending
        with -stra, are
        > > origin names (I think -na is an origin ending too). If you would
        like, send
        > > me a list of your Frisian surnames and I can probably tell what
        most of them
        > > mean.
        > >
        > > Matthias Teichert
        > > Minneapolis, MN
        > > MCTeichert@...
        > >
        >
        > --------------------------------------------------------------------
        ----
        > > Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and find your ancestors
        now.
        > > Search over 550 million names and trace your family tree today.
        Click here:
        > > http://click.egroups.com/1/6254/12/_/567109/_/962988065/
        >
        > --------------------------------------------------------------------
        ----
        > >
        > > Genealogy yn Fryslân:
        http://members1.chello.nl/~a.stienstra/frgen/
        > > of: http://go.to/frgen .
        >
        >
        > --------------------------------------------------------------------
        ----
        > Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and find your ancestors
        now.
        > Search over 550 million names and trace your family tree today.
        Click here:
        > http://click.egroups.com/1/6254/12/_/567109/_/963015303/
        > --------------------------------------------------------------------
        ----
        >
        > Genealogy yn Fryslân: http://members1.chello.nl/~a.stienstra/frgen/
        > of: http://go.to/frgen .
        >
      • Gerda
        Beste Bram Mag ik vragen of de Katsma/Catsma ook in het boek staat? De familie had de naam van ouds bij registratie in 1811. Bijvoorbaat dank Gerda ... From:
        Message 3 of 20 , Jul 8 2:53 AM
          Beste Bram

          Mag ik vragen of de Katsma/Catsma ook in het boek staat? De familie
          "had de naam van ouds" bij registratie in 1811.

          Bijvoorbaat dank

          Gerda


          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Bram Sonneveld" <bso@...>
          To: <Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com>
          Sent: Friday, July 07, 2000 9:26 PM
          Subject: Re: [Friesland-genealogy] napoleonic decree of 1811


          > Dianne,
          >
          > According to the book De Nederlandsche Geslachtsnamen (The Dutch
          surnames),
          > by J. Winkler, the book is from 1885, but still the best in this
          field, the
          > name Walta may either by derived from the word "woud", which means
          'wood',
          > the Frisian word for it is ';wald' or 'walt', so Walta means 'from
          the
          > wood', the second possibility is that the name comes from the
          mensname
          > 'Walte' or 'Woldo' and then it is a patronimicum.
          > Bram Sonneveld
          > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
          > Van: Dianne.W.Hart@... <Dianne.W.Hart@...>
          > Aan: Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com
          <Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com>
          > Datum: vrijdag 7 juli 2000 19:06
          > Onderwerp: RE: [Friesland-genealogy] napoleonic decree of 1811
          >
          >
          > >Matthias,
          > >
          > >My maiden name is Walta. Although the name pops up in history books
          > referring to
          > >a period around 1500 and some mummies in Wiewerd are called Waltas
          and one
          > can
          > >see the name on the streets in Tjerkwerd, the name apparently was
          not in
          > use
          > >prior to 1811 according to a genealogist. That makes me wonder if
          someone
          > simply
          > >applied the name Walta to people/soldiers/mummies/streets AFTER
          1811.
          > >
          > >Thank you for your prompt response!
          > >
          > >Dianne
          > >
          > >-----Original Message-----
          > >From: MCTeichert@... [mailto:MCTeichert@...]
          > >Sent: Friday, July 07, 2000 9:40 AM
          > >To: Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com
          > >Subject: Re: [Friesland-genealogy] napoleonic decree of 1811
          > >
          > >
          > >Dianne,
          > >
          > >Nobility and wealthy farmers did use a surname and often towns folk
          too.
          > With
          > >each century, up to 1811, more and more people used surnames. Most
          common
          > >people didn't have surnames. Traditionally Frisians have sued a
          patronymic
          > >names like, Tjerk Jans (Jan'son'). Their first name usually came
          from their
          > >mother's father. There is more to the tradition than what I
          explained here.
          > >Even when families did use a formal surname, they contiued to use
          this
          > >tradition. For example, my grandfather was Jacob Jans de Hoog, his
          father
          > was
          > >Jan Tjerks de Hoog, and his mother's father was Jacob Hoeksma.
          > >
          > >In my experience (I may be wrong) a larger number of towns people
          used
          > Dutch
          > >surnames prior to 1811. Can anyone comment?
          > >
          > >Frisian names ending with -sma, -ma, -inga, -inia (really
          an -inga), -da
          > are
          > >patronymic. Although there are exceptions, non-patronymic -sma
          and -ma
          > names
          > >likes my gr-grandmother's maiden name Hoeksma. Names ending
          with -stra, are
          > >origin names (I think -na is an origin ending too). If you would
          like, send
          > >me a list of your Frisian surnames and I can probably tell what
          most of
          > them
          > >mean.
          > >
          > >Matthias Teichert
          > >Minneapolis, MN
          > >MCTeichert@...
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          >---------------------------------------------------------------------
          ---
          > >Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and find your ancestors
          now.
          > >Search over 550 million names and trace your family tree today.
          Click here:
          > >http://click.egroups.com/1/6254/12/_/567109/_/962988065/
          >
          >---------------------------------------------------------------------
          ---
          > >
          > >Genealogy yn Fryslân: http://members1.chello.nl/~a.stienstra/frgen/
          > >of: http://go.to/frgen .
          > >
          >
          >---------------------------------------------------------------------
          ---
          > >Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and find your ancestors
          now.
          > >Search over 550 million names and trace your family tree today.
          Click here:
          > >http://click.egroups.com/1/6254/12/_/567109/_/962989407/
          >
          >---------------------------------------------------------------------
          ---
          > >
          > >Genealogy yn Fryslân: http://members1.chello.nl/~a.stienstra/frgen/

          > >of: http://go.to/frgen .
          > >
          >
          >
          > --------------------------------------------------------------------
          ----
          > Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and find your ancestors
          now.
          > Search over 550 million names and trace your family tree today.
          Click here:
          > http://click.egroups.com/1/6254/12/_/567109/_/962997394/
          > --------------------------------------------------------------------
          ----
          >
          > Genealogy yn Fryslân: http://members1.chello.nl/~a.stienstra/frgen/
          > of: http://go.to/frgen .
          >
        • James H. DeYoung
          Please Delete my name from all future mailings. Thank you. ... From: Gerda [mailto:gpieterse@intekom.co.za] Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2000 5:54 AM To:
          Message 4 of 20 , Jul 8 3:46 AM
            Please Delete my name from all future mailings. Thank you.

            -----Original Message-----
            From: Gerda [mailto:gpieterse@...]
            Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2000 5:54 AM
            To: Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com
            Subject: Re: [Friesland-genealogy] napoleonic decree of 1811


            Beste Bram

            Mag ik vragen of de Katsma/Catsma ook in het boek staat? De familie
            "had de naam van ouds" bij registratie in 1811.

            Bijvoorbaat dank

            Gerda


            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Bram Sonneveld" <bso@...>
            To: <Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com>
            Sent: Friday, July 07, 2000 9:26 PM
            Subject: Re: [Friesland-genealogy] napoleonic decree of 1811


            > Dianne,
            >
            > According to the book De Nederlandsche Geslachtsnamen (The Dutch
            surnames),
            > by J. Winkler, the book is from 1885, but still the best in this
            field, the
            > name Walta may either by derived from the word "woud", which means
            'wood',
            > the Frisian word for it is ';wald' or 'walt', so Walta means 'from
            the
            > wood', the second possibility is that the name comes from the
            mensname
            > 'Walte' or 'Woldo' and then it is a patronimicum.
            > Bram Sonneveld
            > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
            > Van: Dianne.W.Hart@... <Dianne.W.Hart@...>
            > Aan: Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com
            <Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com>
            > Datum: vrijdag 7 juli 2000 19:06
            > Onderwerp: RE: [Friesland-genealogy] napoleonic decree of 1811
            >
            >
            > >Matthias,
            > >
            > >My maiden name is Walta. Although the name pops up in history books
            > referring to
            > >a period around 1500 and some mummies in Wiewerd are called Waltas
            and one
            > can
            > >see the name on the streets in Tjerkwerd, the name apparently was
            not in
            > use
            > >prior to 1811 according to a genealogist. That makes me wonder if
            someone
            > simply
            > >applied the name Walta to people/soldiers/mummies/streets AFTER
            1811.
            > >
            > >Thank you for your prompt response!
            > >
            > >Dianne
            > >
            > >-----Original Message-----
            > >From: MCTeichert@... [mailto:MCTeichert@...]
            > >Sent: Friday, July 07, 2000 9:40 AM
            > >To: Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com
            > >Subject: Re: [Friesland-genealogy] napoleonic decree of 1811
            > >
            > >
            > >Dianne,
            > >
            > >Nobility and wealthy farmers did use a surname and often towns folk
            too.
            > With
            > >each century, up to 1811, more and more people used surnames. Most
            common
            > >people didn't have surnames. Traditionally Frisians have sued a
            patronymic
            > >names like, Tjerk Jans (Jan'son'). Their first name usually came
            from their
            > >mother's father. There is more to the tradition than what I
            explained here.
            > >Even when families did use a formal surname, they contiued to use
            this
            > >tradition. For example, my grandfather was Jacob Jans de Hoog, his
            father
            > was
            > >Jan Tjerks de Hoog, and his mother's father was Jacob Hoeksma.
            > >
            > >In my experience (I may be wrong) a larger number of towns people
            used
            > Dutch
            > >surnames prior to 1811. Can anyone comment?
            > >
            > >Frisian names ending with -sma, -ma, -inga, -inia (really
            an -inga), -da
            > are
            > >patronymic. Although there are exceptions, non-patronymic -sma
            and -ma
            > names
            > >likes my gr-grandmother's maiden name Hoeksma. Names ending
            with -stra, are
            > >origin names (I think -na is an origin ending too). If you would
            like, send
            > >me a list of your Frisian surnames and I can probably tell what
            most of
            > them
            > >mean.
            > >
            > >Matthias Teichert
            > >Minneapolis, MN
            > >MCTeichert@...
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            >---------------------------------------------------------------------
            ---
            > >Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and find your ancestors
            now.
            > >Search over 550 million names and trace your family tree today.
            Click here:
            > >http://click.egroups.com/1/6254/12/_/567109/_/962988065/
            >
            >---------------------------------------------------------------------
            ---
            > >
            > >Genealogy yn Fryslân: http://members1.chello.nl/~a.stienstra/frgen/
            > >of: http://go.to/frgen .
            > >
            >
            >---------------------------------------------------------------------
            ---
            > >Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and find your ancestors
            now.
            > >Search over 550 million names and trace your family tree today.
            Click here:
            > >http://click.egroups.com/1/6254/12/_/567109/_/962989407/
            >
            >---------------------------------------------------------------------
            ---
            > >
            > >Genealogy yn Fryslân: http://members1.chello.nl/~a.stienstra/frgen/

            > >of: http://go.to/frgen .
            > >
            >
            >
            > --------------------------------------------------------------------
            ----
            > Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and find your ancestors
            now.
            > Search over 550 million names and trace your family tree today.
            Click here:
            > http://click.egroups.com/1/6254/12/_/567109/_/962997394/
            > --------------------------------------------------------------------
            ----
            >
            > Genealogy yn Fryslân: http://members1.chello.nl/~a.stienstra/frgen/
            > of: http://go.to/frgen .
            >


            ------------------------------------------------------------------------
            Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and find your ancestors now.
            Search over 550 million names and trace your family tree today. Click here:
            http://click.egroups.com/1/6254/12/_/567109/_/963049579/
            ------------------------------------------------------------------------

            Genealogy yn Fryslân: http://members1.chello.nl/~a.stienstra/frgen/
            of: http://go.to/frgen .
          • Bram Sonneveld
            Henk, Ik begrijp dat jij degene bent die ook in de namendatabank van het P.J. Meertens-instituut genoemd wordt, dus die informatie heb je al. In Winkler wordt
            Message 5 of 20 , Jul 8 5:04 AM
              Henk,
              Ik begrijp dat jij degene bent die ook in de namendatabank van het P.J.
              Meertens-instituut genoemd wordt, dus die informatie heb je al.
              In Winkler wordt Kuiphof/Kuyphof(f) niet genoemd. Wel in Huizinga's,
              Complete lijst van namen, Tirion, Baarn, z.j., aldaar onder "Hof".
              Winkler heeft wel een stukje over namen "Met hof". Ik citeer van p. 278:
              "Met hof: Aldershof, Ameshoff, AAttenhoven, Balkenhoven, Bomhoff, Eekhoff,
              Eeckhoff en Eekhof, Kouwenhoven, Kruythoo, Noordhof, Nyhoff, Rauwenhoff,
              Sijthoff, Spaenhoven, Uuldershof, Uvenhoven en het verlatynschte
              Lindenhovius.
              Hof, hove, have, zijn oorspronkelik de zelfde woorden, in verschillende form
              en uitspraak."
              En zo gaat het nog even door. Winkler had een zeer idiosyncratisch
              taalgebruik. De "taalfouten" zijn dus van hem.
              Mijn konklusie: Iemand die woonde in een hof (tuin, etc.) met een kuip, of
              waar een kuiper woonde, noemde zich Kuiphof.
              Overigens, Huizinga heeft ongeveer 150 'hof'-namen.
              Met groet,
              Bram Sonneveld
              -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
              Van: H. Kuiphof <henk.kuiphof@...>
              Aan: Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com <Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com>
              Datum: zaterdag 8 juli 2000 10:11
              Onderwerp: Re: [Friesland-genealogy] napoleonic decree of 1811


              >Wil je zo vriendelijk zijn ook even na te gaan of er een Kuiphof of een
              >Kuyphoff in het genoemde boek staan ? Bij voorbaat hartelijk dank
              >Vriendelijke groeten / kindly regards
              >H. Kuiphof, Holland
              >
              >-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
              >Van: Bram Sonneveld <bso@...>
              >Aan: Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com <Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com>
              >Datum: vrijdag 7 juli 2000 21:16
              >Onderwerp: Re: [Friesland-genealogy] napoleonic decree of 1811
              >
              >
              >>Dianne,
              >>
              >>According to the book De Nederlandsche Geslachtsnamen (The Dutch
              surnames),
              >>by J. Winkler, the book is from 1885, but still the best in this field,
              the
              >>name Walta may either by derived from the word "woud", which means 'wood',
              >>the Frisian word for it is ';wald' or 'walt', so Walta means 'from the
              >>wood', the second possibility is that the name comes from the mensname
              >>'Walte' or 'Woldo' and then it is a patronimicum.
              >>Bram Sonneveld
              >>-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
              >>Van: Dianne.W.Hart@... <Dianne.W.Hart@...>
              >>Aan: Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com <Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com>
              >>Datum: vrijdag 7 juli 2000 19:06
              >>Onderwerp: RE: [Friesland-genealogy] napoleonic decree of 1811
              >>
              >>
              >>>Matthias,
              >>>
              >>>My maiden name is Walta. Although the name pops up in history books
              >>referring to
              >>>a period around 1500 and some mummies in Wiewerd are called Waltas and
              one
              >>can
              >>>see the name on the streets in Tjerkwerd, the name apparently was not in
              >>use
              >>>prior to 1811 according to a genealogist. That makes me wonder if someone
              >>simply
              >>>applied the name Walta to people/soldiers/mummies/streets AFTER 1811.
              >>>
              >>>Thank you for your prompt response!
              >>>
              >>>Dianne
              >>>
              >>>-----Original Message-----
              >>>From: MCTeichert@... [mailto:MCTeichert@...]
              >>>Sent: Friday, July 07, 2000 9:40 AM
              >>>To: Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com
              >>>Subject: Re: [Friesland-genealogy] napoleonic decree of 1811
              >>>
              >>>
              >>>Dianne,
              >>>
              >>>Nobility and wealthy farmers did use a surname and often towns folk too.
              >>With
              >>>each century, up to 1811, more and more people used surnames. Most common
              >>>people didn't have surnames. Traditionally Frisians have sued a
              patronymic
              >>>names like, Tjerk Jans (Jan'son'). Their first name usually came from
              >their
              >>>mother's father. There is more to the tradition than what I explained
              >here.
              >>>Even when families did use a formal surname, they contiued to use this
              >>>tradition. For example, my grandfather was Jacob Jans de Hoog, his father
              >>was
              >>>Jan Tjerks de Hoog, and his mother's father was Jacob Hoeksma.
              >>>
              >>>In my experience (I may be wrong) a larger number of towns people used
              >>Dutch
              >>>surnames prior to 1811. Can anyone comment?
              >>>
              >>>Frisian names ending with -sma, -ma, -inga, -inia (really an -inga), -da
              >>are
              >>>patronymic. Although there are exceptions, non-patronymic -sma and -ma
              >>names
              >>>likes my gr-grandmother's maiden name Hoeksma. Names ending with -stra,
              >are
              >>>origin names (I think -na is an origin ending too). If you would like,
              >send
              >>>me a list of your Frisian surnames and I can probably tell what most of
              >>them
              >>>mean.
              >>>
              >>>Matthias Teichert
              >>>Minneapolis, MN
              >>>MCTeichert@...
              >>>
              >>>
              >>>
              >>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
              >>>Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and find your ancestors now.
              >>>Search over 550 million names and trace your family tree today. Click
              >here:
              >>>http://click.egroups.com/1/6254/12/_/567109/_/962988065/
              >>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
              >>>
              >>>Genealogy yn Fryslân: http://members1.chello.nl/~a.stienstra/frgen/
              >>>of: http://go.to/frgen .
              >>>
              >>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
              >>>Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and find your ancestors now.
              >>>Search over 550 million names and trace your family tree today. Click
              >here:
              >>>http://click.egroups.com/1/6254/12/_/567109/_/962989407/
              >>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
              >>>
              >>>Genealogy yn Fryslân: http://members1.chello.nl/~a.stienstra/frgen/
              >>>of: http://go.to/frgen .
              >>>
              >>
              >>
              >>------------------------------------------------------------------------
              >>Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and find your ancestors now.
              >>Search over 550 million names and trace your family tree today. Click
              here:
              >>http://click.egroups.com/1/6254/12/_/567109/_/962997394/
              >>------------------------------------------------------------------------
              >>
              >>Genealogy yn Fryslân: http://members1.chello.nl/~a.stienstra/frgen/
              >>of: http://go.to/frgen .
              >>
              >
              >
              >------------------------------------------------------------------------
              >Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and find your ancestors now.
              >Search over 550 million names and trace your family tree today. Click here:
              >http://click.egroups.com/1/6254/12/_/567109/_/963043757/
              >------------------------------------------------------------------------
              >
              >Genealogy yn Fryslân: http://members1.chello.nl/~a.stienstra/frgen/
              >of: http://go.to/frgen .
              >
            • Bram Sonneveld
              Gerda, Ja, Katsma komt voor bij Winkler. Ik zal het stukje daarover letterlijk voor je overschrijven. Winkler was zeer erudiet, en dus erg eigenwijs, dat
              Message 6 of 20 , Jul 8 5:16 AM
                Gerda,

                Ja, Katsma komt voor bij Winkler. Ik zal het stukje daarover letterlijk voor
                je overschrijven. Winkler was zeer erudiet, en dus erg eigenwijs, dat blijkt
                ook uit zijn spelling. Als er fouten in het onderstaande te vinden zijn, dan
                zijn dat Winklers eigenaardigheden:
                Blz. 390: "Catto, Katte, Kat is een oud-germaansche mansvoornaam, die ook in
                samenstellingen, als Catuald (Katwalt) en Catumer (Katmar) voorkomt, en door
                Förstemann in zijn Altdeutsches namenbuch tot drie verschillende
                naamstammen, Chad, Gad en Hath, gebracht wordt. Een enkele der talryke
                geslachtsnamen Kat en Cat, en, in den tweeden naamval als patronymikon,
                Kats, Cats en Catz, zal zeker wel van dezen ouden mansvoornaam afstammen.
                Zekerlik is dit het geval met de friesche patronymikale geslachtsnamen
                Katsma en Katma, en met menigen plaatsnaam. Waarschijnlijk behoort het
                patronymokon Caeding, dat by de Angel-Saksen voorkwam, ook wel tot dezen
                mansnaam. Buitendien kan de geslachtsnaam Cats, Katz, behalven een
                tweede-naamvalsform van den diernaam, of van den mansvoornaam, ook nog de
                plaatsnaam Kats of Cats zijn, zoo als een dorp heet op het zeeusche eiland
                Noord-Beveland. By de zeeusche maagschap Cats althans meen ik dat dit
                zekerlik het geval is."
                Groet,
                Bram Sonneveld
                -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
                Van: Gerda <gpieterse@...>
                Aan: Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com <Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com>
                Datum: zaterdag 8 juli 2000 11:49
                Onderwerp: Re: [Friesland-genealogy] napoleonic decree of 1811


                >Beste Bram
                >
                >Mag ik vragen of de Katsma/Catsma ook in het boek staat? De familie
                >"had de naam van ouds" bij registratie in 1811.
                >
                >Bijvoorbaat dank
                >
                >Gerda
                >
                >
                >----- Original Message -----
                >From: "Bram Sonneveld" <bso@...>
                >To: <Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com>
                >Sent: Friday, July 07, 2000 9:26 PM
                >Subject: Re: [Friesland-genealogy] napoleonic decree of 1811
                >
                >
                >> Dianne,
                >>
                >> According to the book De Nederlandsche Geslachtsnamen (The Dutch
                >surnames),
                >> by J. Winkler, the book is from 1885, but still the best in this
                >field, the
                >> name Walta may either by derived from the word "woud", which means
                >'wood',
                >> the Frisian word for it is ';wald' or 'walt', so Walta means 'from
                >the
                >> wood', the second possibility is that the name comes from the
                >mensname
                >> 'Walte' or 'Woldo' and then it is a patronimicum.
                >> Bram Sonneveld
                >> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
                >> Van: Dianne.W.Hart@... <Dianne.W.Hart@...>
                >> Aan: Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com
                ><Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com>
                >> Datum: vrijdag 7 juli 2000 19:06
                >> Onderwerp: RE: [Friesland-genealogy] napoleonic decree of 1811
                >>
                >>
                >> >Matthias,
                >> >
                >> >My maiden name is Walta. Although the name pops up in history books
                >> referring to
                >> >a period around 1500 and some mummies in Wiewerd are called Waltas
                >and one
                >> can
                >> >see the name on the streets in Tjerkwerd, the name apparently was
                >not in
                >> use
                >> >prior to 1811 according to a genealogist. That makes me wonder if
                >someone
                >> simply
                >> >applied the name Walta to people/soldiers/mummies/streets AFTER
                >1811.
                >> >
                >> >Thank you for your prompt response!
                >> >
                >> >Dianne
                >> >
                >> >-----Original Message-----
                >> >From: MCTeichert@... [mailto:MCTeichert@...]
                >> >Sent: Friday, July 07, 2000 9:40 AM
                >> >To: Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com
                >> >Subject: Re: [Friesland-genealogy] napoleonic decree of 1811
                >> >
                >> >
                >> >Dianne,
                >> >
                >> >Nobility and wealthy farmers did use a surname and often towns folk
                >too.
                >> With
                >> >each century, up to 1811, more and more people used surnames. Most
                >common
                >> >people didn't have surnames. Traditionally Frisians have sued a
                >patronymic
                >> >names like, Tjerk Jans (Jan'son'). Their first name usually came
                >from their
                >> >mother's father. There is more to the tradition than what I
                >explained here.
                >> >Even when families did use a formal surname, they contiued to use
                >this
                >> >tradition. For example, my grandfather was Jacob Jans de Hoog, his
                >father
                >> was
                >> >Jan Tjerks de Hoog, and his mother's father was Jacob Hoeksma.
                >> >
                >> >In my experience (I may be wrong) a larger number of towns people
                >used
                >> Dutch
                >> >surnames prior to 1811. Can anyone comment?
                >> >
                >> >Frisian names ending with -sma, -ma, -inga, -inia (really
                >an -inga), -da
                >> are
                >> >patronymic. Although there are exceptions, non-patronymic -sma
                >and -ma
                >> names
                >> >likes my gr-grandmother's maiden name Hoeksma. Names ending
                >with -stra, are
                >> >origin names (I think -na is an origin ending too). If you would
                >like, send
                >> >me a list of your Frisian surnames and I can probably tell what
                >most of
                >> them
                >> >mean.
                >> >
                >> >Matthias Teichert
                >> >Minneapolis, MN
                >> >MCTeichert@...
                >> >
                >> >
                >> >
                >>
                >>---------------------------------------------------------------------
                >---
                >> >Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and find your ancestors
                >now.
                >> >Search over 550 million names and trace your family tree today.
                >Click here:
                >> >http://click.egroups.com/1/6254/12/_/567109/_/962988065/
                >>
                >>---------------------------------------------------------------------
                >---
                >> >
                >> >Genealogy yn Fryslân: http://members1.chello.nl/~a.stienstra/frgen/
                >> >of: http://go.to/frgen .
                >> >
                >>
                >>---------------------------------------------------------------------
                >---
                >> >Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and find your ancestors
                >now.
                >> >Search over 550 million names and trace your family tree today.
                >Click here:
                >> >http://click.egroups.com/1/6254/12/_/567109/_/962989407/
                >>
                >>---------------------------------------------------------------------
                >---
                >> >
                >> >Genealogy yn Fryslân: http://members1.chello.nl/~a.stienstra/frgen/
                >
                >> >of: http://go.to/frgen .
                >> >
                >>
                >>
                >> --------------------------------------------------------------------
                >----
                >> Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and find your ancestors
                >now.
                >> Search over 550 million names and trace your family tree today.
                >Click here:
                >> http://click.egroups.com/1/6254/12/_/567109/_/962997394/
                >> --------------------------------------------------------------------
                >----
                >>
                >> Genealogy yn Fryslân: http://members1.chello.nl/~a.stienstra/frgen/
                >> of: http://go.to/frgen .
                >>
                >
                >
                >------------------------------------------------------------------------
                >Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and find your ancestors now.
                >Search over 550 million names and trace your family tree today. Click here:
                >http://click.egroups.com/1/6254/12/_/567109/_/963049579/
                >------------------------------------------------------------------------
                >
                >Genealogy yn Fryslân: http://members1.chello.nl/~a.stienstra/frgen/
                >of: http://go.to/frgen .
                >
              • siebrigje van der wal
                ... Hello Rinske, We have the same custom in our family. Although there always are some exceptions. As the first girl I was named after the wrong grandmother
                Message 7 of 20 , Jul 8 6:14 AM
                  Hans & Rinske Van Brederode wrote:

                  > Hello Matthias.
                  > According to our Friesian family history the naming of the children went thus:
                  > the first son was names after the father's father, the second son after the
                  > mother's father, the first daughter after the mothers mother and the second
                  > daughter after the father's mother. After that the parents sibling's names were
                  > used.
                  > Does anyone else have the same custom in the family?
                  > Rinske van Brederode
                  > Barrie, Ontario, Canada
                  >

                  Hello Rinske,

                  We have the same custom in our family. Although there always are some exceptions.
                  As the first girl I was named after the 'wrong' grandmother on father side, because
                  my
                  mother liked her better. Also an uncle, Jan, is named after a deceased brother of my

                  grandmother. Otherwise he would have had the name Bauke. There were already a lot
                  of Bauke's in the family and my father was already named Bokke.
                  I like that Frysian names are still used. (father: Bokke, mother: Ytje, brothers:
                  Anske and Auke,
                  me: Siebrigje)

                  Greetings Siebrigje
                • Lieko Helmus
                  Everybody doing (Frisian)genealogy soon discovers this (unique?) patron And custom of naming children. How ever far you go back, you find this Strict
                  Message 8 of 20 , Jul 8 7:07 AM
                    Everybody doing (Frisian)genealogy soon discovers this (unique?) patron
                    And custom of naming children. How ever far you go back, you find this
                    Strict tradition. Which makes it so fascinating for me to go through the
                    Generations and even see your own name, like in my case, back hundreds
                    Of years ago. How about Lykele Helmigs (“my 260”), born Olterterp around
                    1701 and
                    Married Taetske Uytzes,born Beetsterzwaag 27 March 1709?
                    I am aware that I am from the generation that ended this
                    tradition/custom/patron.
                    Why? Also a result of a sort cultural revolution. Interesting thing that
                    years ago I
                    Met with a Japanese banker, with whom I shared my genealogical hobby and
                    He mentioned that exactly the same process had taken place in his country.
                    So instead of Aaltje, Lolkje, Daniella and Lieuwkje, our daughters were
                    named
                    Alice, Hester Louise, Daniella (my father-in-law Daniel, so pretty
                    close)Deborah
                    and Leontina Marjolijn.
                    If I knew then what I know now………
                    Liekele Lieuwes Helmus, Hilversum
                    PS Hope Andrys allows this sidetrack!
                    ________________________________________________

                    Liekele (Lieko) Helmus & Rinske Helmus-Deutekom
                    Siriusstraat 52, NL-1223 AP Hilversum, the Netherlands
                    31(0)35 6858 675 (+voicemail) Fax 31(0)20 8848 931(fax2pc)
                    gsm 06 28184122 (+SMS) NetMeeting (+Webcam)
                    lhelmus@...




                    [De niet-tekstgedeelten van dit bericht werden verwijderd]
                  • H. Kuiphof
                    Bedankt Bram, Ik ben toch weer een heel klein stukje verder. Ik ben al jaren op zoek naar de oorsprong van mijn naam. Ik vermoed dat deze uit Duitsland komt
                    Message 9 of 20 , Jul 9 9:10 AM
                      Bedankt Bram, Ik ben toch weer een heel klein stukje verder. Ik ben al jaren
                      op zoek naar de oorsprong van mijn naam. Ik vermoed dat deze uit Duitsland
                      komt maar enig houvast heb ik niet. Mijn voorvaderen waren Mennonieten en
                      die gebruikten hun achternaam niet, dat paste niet bij hun sobere
                      levensstijl. Het zou ons heel wat gepuzzel hebben bespaard als Napoleon in
                      1811 ook verordineerd had dat men op moest geven waarom men voor een
                      bepaalde naam koos., maar helaas.
                      Vriendelijke groeten / kindly regards
                      H. Kuiphof, Holland
                      e-mail: henk.kuiphof@...

                      -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
                      Van: Bram Sonneveld <bso@...>
                      Aan: Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com <Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com>
                      Datum: zaterdag 8 juli 2000 13:53
                      Onderwerp: Re: [Friesland-genealogy] napoleonic decree of 1811


                      >Henk,
                      >Ik begrijp dat jij degene bent die ook in de namendatabank van het P.J.
                      >Meertens-instituut genoemd wordt, dus die informatie heb je al.
                      >In Winkler wordt Kuiphof/Kuyphof(f) niet genoemd. Wel in Huizinga's,
                      >Complete lijst van namen, Tirion, Baarn, z.j., aldaar onder "Hof".
                      >Winkler heeft wel een stukje over namen "Met hof". Ik citeer van p. 278:
                      >"Met hof: Aldershof, Ameshoff, AAttenhoven, Balkenhoven, Bomhoff, Eekhoff,
                      >Eeckhoff en Eekhof, Kouwenhoven, Kruythoo, Noordhof, Nyhoff, Rauwenhoff,
                      >Sijthoff, Spaenhoven, Uuldershof, Uvenhoven en het verlatynschte
                      >Lindenhovius.
                      >Hof, hove, have, zijn oorspronkelik de zelfde woorden, in verschillende
                      form
                      >en uitspraak."
                      >En zo gaat het nog even door. Winkler had een zeer idiosyncratisch
                      >taalgebruik. De "taalfouten" zijn dus van hem.
                      >Mijn konklusie: Iemand die woonde in een hof (tuin, etc.) met een kuip, of
                      >waar een kuiper woonde, noemde zich Kuiphof.
                      >Overigens, Huizinga heeft ongeveer 150 'hof'-namen.
                      >Met groet,
                      >Bram Sonneveld
                      >-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
                      >Van: H. Kuiphof <henk.kuiphof@...>
                      >Aan: Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com <Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com>
                      >Datum: zaterdag 8 juli 2000 10:11
                      >Onderwerp: Re: [Friesland-genealogy] napoleonic decree of 1811
                    • Jim Van Sluys
                      ... From: To: Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2000 2:40 AM Subject: Re: [Friesland-genealogy] napoleonic decree
                      Message 10 of 20 , Jul 9 3:57 PM
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: <MCTeichert@...>
                        To: <Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com>
                        Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2000 2:40 AM
                        Subject: Re: [Friesland-genealogy] napoleonic decree of 1811


                        > Dianne,
                        >
                        > Nobility and wealthy farmers did use a surname and often towns folk too.
                        With
                        > each century, up to 1811, more and more people used surnames. Most common
                        > people didn't have surnames. Traditionally Frisians have sued a patronymic
                        > names like, Tjerk Jans (Jan'son'). Their first name usually came from
                        their
                        > mother's father. There is more to the tradition than what I explained
                        here.
                        > Even when families did use a formal surname, they contiued to use this
                        > tradition. For example, my grandfather was Jacob Jans de Hoog, his father
                        was
                        > Jan Tjerks de Hoog, and his mother's father was Jacob Hoeksma.
                        >
                        > In my experience (I may be wrong) a larger number of towns people used
                        Dutch
                        > surnames prior to 1811. Can anyone comment?
                        >
                        > Frisian names ending with -sma, -ma, -inga, -inia (really an -inga), -da
                        are
                        > patronymic. Although there are exceptions, non-patronymic -sma and -ma
                        names
                        > likes my gr-grandmother's maiden name Hoeksma. Names ending with -stra,
                        are
                        > origin names (I think -na is an origin ending too). If you would like,
                        send
                        > me a list of your Frisian surnames and I can probably tell what most of
                        them
                        > mean.
                        >
                        > Matthias Teichert
                        > Minneapolis, MN
                        > MCTeichert@...

                        Hello Matthias
                        I am going to take you up on your offer of a description of one of my
                        Frisian surnames.
                        My nephew and I are searching for his "Roots" and are interested in his
                        surname, POSTUMA.
                        We have seen variations, Posthumus, Postma, etc. and do not know if these
                        are connected.
                        So, please, if you have an idea of the meaning of his surname, put us out of
                        our misery!
                        Best regards, Jim van Sluys and Greg Postuma. Thanks from "Down Under" Cold
                        Australia!
                      • Yntze van der Honing
                        Meaning of POSTMA, POSTHUMUS, POSTHUMA, etc. This surname literally means after one s death , generally referring to a child whose father had already passed
                        Message 11 of 20 , Jul 10 5:09 AM
                          Meaning of POSTMA, POSTHUMUS, POSTHUMA, etc.

                          This surname literally means "after one's death", generally referring to a
                          child whose father had already passed away when the child was born. The
                          name has no relationship with the mail service! There are dozens, if not
                          hundreds, of families by this name throughout the Netherlands and they are
                          not all related to one another.

                          Regards,

                          Yntze van der Honing

                          At 08:57 AM 7/10/00 +1000, you wrote:

                          >----- Original Message -----
                          >From: <MCTeichert@...>
                          >To: <Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com>
                          >Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2000 2:40 AM
                          >Subject: Re: [Friesland-genealogy] napoleonic decree of 1811
                          >
                          >
                          > > Dianne,
                          > >
                          > > Nobility and wealthy farmers did use a surname and often towns folk too.
                          >With
                          > > each century, up to 1811, more and more people used surnames. Most common
                          > > people didn't have surnames. Traditionally Frisians have sued a patronymic
                          > > names like, Tjerk Jans (Jan'son'). Their first name usually came from
                          >their
                          > > mother's father. There is more to the tradition than what I explained
                          >here.
                          > > Even when families did use a formal surname, they contiued to use this
                          > > tradition. For example, my grandfather was Jacob Jans de Hoog, his father
                          >was
                          > > Jan Tjerks de Hoog, and his mother's father was Jacob Hoeksma.
                          > >
                          > > In my experience (I may be wrong) a larger number of towns people used
                          >Dutch
                          > > surnames prior to 1811. Can anyone comment?
                          > >
                          > > Frisian names ending with -sma, -ma, -inga, -inia (really an -inga), -da
                          >are
                          > > patronymic. Although there are exceptions, non-patronymic -sma and -ma
                          >names
                          > > likes my gr-grandmother's maiden name Hoeksma. Names ending with -stra,
                          >are
                          > > origin names (I think -na is an origin ending too). If you would like,
                          >send
                          > > me a list of your Frisian surnames and I can probably tell what most of
                          >them
                          > > mean.
                          > >
                          > > Matthias Teichert
                          > > Minneapolis, MN
                          > > MCTeichert@...
                          >
                          >Hello Matthias
                          > I am going to take you up on your offer of a description of one of my
                          >Frisian surnames.
                          >My nephew and I are searching for his "Roots" and are interested in his
                          >surname, POSTUMA.
                          >We have seen variations, Posthumus, Postma, etc. and do not know if these
                          >are connected.
                          >So, please, if you have an idea of the meaning of his surname, put us out of
                          >our misery!
                          >Best regards, Jim van Sluys and Greg Postuma. Thanks from "Down Under" Cold
                          >Australia!
                          >
                          >
                          >------------------------------------------------------------------------
                          >Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and find your ancestors now.
                          >Search over 550 million names and trace your family tree today. Click here:
                          >http://click.egroups.com/1/6254/12/_/567109/_/963226774/
                          >------------------------------------------------------------------------
                          >
                          >Genealogy yn Fryslân: http://members1.chello.nl/~a.stienstra/frgen/
                          >of: http://go.to/frgen .
                        • andr.mehlsen laustsen
                          Hello all Frisians (especially Hans, Rinske, and Siebrigje)! The custom mentioned for giving names (at least) has been dominant in peasant families all over
                          Message 12 of 20 , Jul 10 12:01 PM
                            Hello all Frisians (especially Hans, Rinske, and Siebrigje)!
                            The custom mentioned for giving names (at least) has been dominant in
                            peasant families all over Western Jutland; e.g. I was in 1928 given the
                            names of my paternal grandfather: Andreas Mehlsen Laustsen. The Mehlsen (or
                            Melsen or Meelsen)- name is supposed to be either Dutch or Frisian - it goes
                            back to the early 18th century at least. In many Danish families (also in my
                            own) we find the name Friis, a fact that suggests Frisian ancestors.
                            I should like some comments on these assumptions.
                            Kind regards
                            A.Mehlsen L.


                            >From: siebrigje van der wal <S.vanderwal@...>
                            >Reply-To: Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com
                            >To: Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com
                            >Subject: Re: [Friesland-genealogy] napoleonic decree of 1811
                            >Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2000 15:14:41 +0200
                            >
                            >Hans & Rinske Van Brederode wrote:
                            >
                            > > Hello Matthias.
                            > > According to our Friesian family history the naming of the children went
                            >thus:
                            > > the first son was names after the father's father, the second son after
                            >the
                            > > mother's father, the first daughter after the mothers mother and the
                            >second
                            > > daughter after the father's mother. After that the parents sibling's
                            >names were
                            > > used.
                            > > Does anyone else have the same custom in the family?
                            > > Rinske van Brederode
                            > > Barrie, Ontario, Canada
                            > >
                            >
                            >Hello Rinske,
                            >
                            >We have the same custom in our family. Although there always are some
                            >exceptions.
                            >As the first girl I was named after the 'wrong' grandmother on father side,
                            >because
                            >my
                            >mother liked her better. Also an uncle, Jan, is named after a deceased
                            >brother of my
                            >
                            >grandmother. Otherwise he would have had the name Bauke. There were already
                            >a lot
                            >of Bauke's in the family and my father was already named Bokke.
                            >I like that Frysian names are still used. (father: Bokke, mother: Ytje,
                            >brothers:
                            >Anske and Auke,
                            >me: Siebrigje)
                            >
                            >Greetings Siebrigje
                            >
                            >
                            >------------------------------------------------------------------------
                            >Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and find your ancestors now.
                            >Search over 550 million names and trace your family tree today. Click here:
                            >http://click.egroups.com/1/6254/12/_/567109/_/963061377/
                            >------------------------------------------------------------------------
                            >
                            >Genealogy yn Frysl�n: http://members1.chello.nl/~a.stienstra/frgen/
                            >of: http://go.to/frgen .
                            >

                            ________________________________________________________________________
                            Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
                          • andr.mehlsen laustsen
                            Dear Gerda! The custom to name a child after a deceased sibling is common in Western Jutch families too. We seem to have much in common near the North Sea
                            Message 13 of 20 , Jul 10 12:40 PM
                              Dear Gerda!
                              The custom to name a child after a deceased sibling is common in Western
                              Jutch families too.
                              We seem to have much in common near the North Sea
                              Regards
                              A. Mehlsen L.


                              >From: "Gerda" <gpieterse@...>
                              >Reply-To: Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com
                              >To: <Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com>
                              >Subject: Re: [Friesland-genealogy] napoleonic decree of 1811
                              >Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2000 11:45:47 +0200
                              >
                              >Dear Rinske
                              >
                              >In our family the custom is also followed, but with exceptions. My
                              >great grandfather married twice, his first wife died with childbirth,
                              >but the child survived and was named Jetske, after her mother. When gr
                              >grandfather married again, his first two daughters were named after
                              >the maternal and paternal grandmothers respectively, but then the
                              >child from the first marriage died at age seven, and the next daughter
                              >was named after her. This Jetske was a full sister sister of my
                              >grandmother Maaike. When my grandmother married her sister Jetske had
                              >also passed away, as had the paternal grandmother, so the paternal
                              >grandmother was named first, then the sister, and after those the
                              >maternal grandmother who was still alive at the time.
                              >
                              >My grandmother always went to great lengths to explain that the naming
                              >protocol was reversed, and who was named after whom in the family. I
                              >have heard that this is particularly true of the "Doopsgezinden",
                              >which this family was, but haven't had this explained to me yet.
                              >
                              >In other families I have found that pre-deceased children are also
                              >renamed several times. The ten Brink's had three sons named Johannes
                              >(none survived the first year)
                              >
                              >Regards
                              >
                              >Gerda
                              >
                              >.
                              >
                              >----- Original Message -----
                              >From: "Hans & Rinske Van Brederode" <van.brederode@...>
                              >To: <Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com>
                              >Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2000 2:13 AM
                              >Subject: Re: [Friesland-genealogy] napoleonic decree of 1811
                              >
                              >
                              > > Hello Matthias.
                              > > According to our Friesian family history the naming of the children
                              >went thus:
                              > > the first son was names after the father's father, the second son
                              >after the
                              > > mother's father, the first daughter after the mothers mother and the
                              >second
                              > > daughter after the father's mother. After that the parents
                              >sibling's names were
                              > > used.
                              > > Does anyone else have the same custom in the family?
                              > > Rinske van Brederode
                              > > Barrie, Ontario, Canada
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > MCTeichert@... wrote:
                              > >
                              > > > Dianne,
                              > > >
                              > > > Nobility and wealthy farmers did use a surname and often towns
                              >folk too. With
                              > > > each century, up to 1811, more and more people used surnames. Most
                              >common
                              > > > people didn't have surnames. Traditionally Frisians have sued a
                              >patronymic
                              > > > names like, Tjerk Jans (Jan'son'). Their first name usually came
                              >from their
                              > > > mother's father. There is more to the tradition than what I
                              >explained here.
                              > > > Even when families did use a formal surname, they contiued to use
                              >this
                              > > > tradition. For example, my grandfather was Jacob Jans de Hoog, his
                              >father was
                              > > > Jan Tjerks de Hoog, and his mother's father was Jacob Hoeksma.
                              > > >
                              > > > In my experience (I may be wrong) a larger number of towns people
                              >used Dutch
                              > > > surnames prior to 1811. Can anyone comment?
                              > > >
                              > > > Frisian names ending with -sma, -ma, -inga, -inia (really
                              >an -inga), -da are
                              > > > patronymic. Although there are exceptions, non-patronymic -sma
                              >and -ma names
                              > > > likes my gr-grandmother's maiden name Hoeksma. Names ending
                              >with -stra, are
                              > > > origin names (I think -na is an origin ending too). If you would
                              >like, send
                              > > > me a list of your Frisian surnames and I can probably tell what
                              >most of them
                              > > > mean.
                              > > >
                              > > > Matthias Teichert
                              > > > Minneapolis, MN
                              > > > MCTeichert@...
                              > > >
                              > >
                              > > --------------------------------------------------------------------
                              >----
                              > > > Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and find your ancestors
                              >now.
                              > > > Search over 550 million names and trace your family tree today.
                              >Click here:
                              > > > http://click.egroups.com/1/6254/12/_/567109/_/962988065/
                              > >
                              > > --------------------------------------------------------------------
                              >----
                              > > >
                              > > > Genealogy yn Frysl�n:
                              >http://members1.chello.nl/~a.stienstra/frgen/
                              > > > of: http://go.to/frgen .
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > --------------------------------------------------------------------
                              >----
                              > > Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and find your ancestors
                              >now.
                              > > Search over 550 million names and trace your family tree today.
                              >Click here:
                              > > http://click.egroups.com/1/6254/12/_/567109/_/963015303/
                              > > --------------------------------------------------------------------
                              >----
                              > >
                              > > Genealogy yn Frysl�n: http://members1.chello.nl/~a.stienstra/frgen/
                              > > of: http://go.to/frgen .
                              > >
                              >
                              >
                              >------------------------------------------------------------------------
                              >Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and find your ancestors now.
                              >Search over 550 million names and trace your family tree today. Click here:
                              >http://click.egroups.com/1/6254/12/_/567109/_/963049091/
                              >------------------------------------------------------------------------
                              >
                              >Genealogy yn Frysl�n: http://members1.chello.nl/~a.stienstra/frgen/
                              >of: http://go.to/frgen .
                              >

                              ________________________________________________________________________
                              Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
                            • Gerda
                              Hi Andreas, The Frisians did indeed inhabit a vast part of Scandinavia, particularly Denmark, much of the Lowlands and parts of Gr Brittain. The small regions
                              Message 14 of 20 , Jul 10 2:52 PM
                                Hi Andreas,

                                The Frisians did indeed inhabit a vast part of Scandinavia,
                                particularly Denmark, much of the Lowlands and parts of Gr Brittain.
                                The small regions that remain today, and are artificially divided
                                between countries, are just a fraction of their former sphere of
                                influence.

                                I always wonder if there is a relationship between some Frisian names
                                and French names. The names Ytjen and Ettienne or Sake and Jacques
                                spring to mind immediately, but I have noticed more.

                                What I would also like to know is why the name "de Vries",
                                understandably prevalent in Friesland and a popular choice in 1811, is
                                also prevalent in the rest of the Netherlands as well as in the Dutch
                                Jewish community? Were these names also chosen during Napoleon's rule,
                                or did they come through from a much earlier age?

                                Regards, met vriendelijke groet

                                Gerda




                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: "andr.mehlsen laustsen" <aml28@...>
                                To: <Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com>
                                Sent: Monday, July 10, 2000 9:40 PM
                                Subject: Re: [Friesland-genealogy] napoleonic decree of 1811


                                > Dear Gerda!
                                > The custom to name a child after a deceased sibling is common in
                                Western
                                > Jutch families too.
                                > We seem to have much in common near the North Sea
                                > Regards
                                > A. Mehlsen L.
                                >
                                >
                                > >From: "Gerda" <gpieterse@...>
                                > >Reply-To: Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com
                                > >To: <Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com>
                                > >Subject: Re: [Friesland-genealogy] napoleonic decree of 1811
                                > >Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2000 11:45:47 +0200
                                > >
                                > >Dear Rinske
                                > >
                                > >In our family the custom is also followed, but with exceptions. My
                                > >great grandfather married twice, his first wife died with
                                childbirth,
                                > >but the child survived and was named Jetske, after her mother. When
                                gr
                                > >grandfather married again, his first two daughters were named after
                                > >the maternal and paternal grandmothers respectively, but then the
                                > >child from the first marriage died at age seven, and the next
                                daughter
                                > >was named after her. This Jetske was a full sister sister of my
                                > >grandmother Maaike. When my grandmother married her sister Jetske
                                had
                                > >also passed away, as had the paternal grandmother, so the paternal
                                > >grandmother was named first, then the sister, and after those the
                                > >maternal grandmother who was still alive at the time.
                                > >
                                > >My grandmother always went to great lengths to explain that the
                                naming
                                > >protocol was reversed, and who was named after whom in the family.
                                I
                                > >have heard that this is particularly true of the "Doopsgezinden",
                                > >which this family was, but haven't had this explained to me yet.
                                > >
                                > >In other families I have found that pre-deceased children are also
                                > >renamed several times. The ten Brink's had three sons named
                                Johannes
                                > >(none survived the first year)
                                > >
                                > >Regards
                                > >
                                > >Gerda
                                > >
                                > >.
                                > >
                                > >----- Original Message -----
                                > >From: "Hans & Rinske Van Brederode" <van.brederode@...>
                                > >To: <Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com>
                                > >Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2000 2:13 AM
                                > >Subject: Re: [Friesland-genealogy] napoleonic decree of 1811
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > > Hello Matthias.
                                > > > According to our Friesian family history the naming of the
                                children
                                > >went thus:
                                > > > the first son was names after the father's father, the second
                                son
                                > >after the
                                > > > mother's father, the first daughter after the mothers mother and
                                the
                                > >second
                                > > > daughter after the father's mother. After that the parents
                                > >sibling's names were
                                > > > used.
                                > > > Does anyone else have the same custom in the family?
                                > > > Rinske van Brederode
                                > > > Barrie, Ontario, Canada
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > MCTeichert@... wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > > > Dianne,
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Nobility and wealthy farmers did use a surname and often towns
                                > >folk too. With
                                > > > > each century, up to 1811, more and more people used surnames.
                                Most
                                > >common
                                > > > > people didn't have surnames. Traditionally Frisians have sued
                                a
                                > >patronymic
                                > > > > names like, Tjerk Jans (Jan'son'). Their first name usually
                                came
                                > >from their
                                > > > > mother's father. There is more to the tradition than what I
                                > >explained here.
                                > > > > Even when families did use a formal surname, they contiued to
                                use
                                > >this
                                > > > > tradition. For example, my grandfather was Jacob Jans de Hoog,
                                his
                                > >father was
                                > > > > Jan Tjerks de Hoog, and his mother's father was Jacob Hoeksma.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > In my experience (I may be wrong) a larger number of towns
                                people
                                > >used Dutch
                                > > > > surnames prior to 1811. Can anyone comment?
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Frisian names ending with -sma, -ma, -inga, -inia (really
                                > >an -inga), -da are
                                > > > > patronymic. Although there are exceptions, non-patronymic -sma
                                > >and -ma names
                                > > > > likes my gr-grandmother's maiden name Hoeksma. Names ending
                                > >with -stra, are
                                > > > > origin names (I think -na is an origin ending too). If you
                                would
                                > >like, send
                                > > > > me a list of your Frisian surnames and I can probably tell
                                what
                                > >most of them
                                > > > > mean.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Matthias Teichert
                                > > > > Minneapolis, MN
                                > > > > MCTeichert@...
                                > > > >
                                > > >
                                > >
                                > --------------------------------------------------------------------
                                > >----
                                > > > > Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and find your
                                ancestors
                                > >now.
                                > > > > Search over 550 million names and trace your family tree
                                today.
                                > >Click here:
                                > > > > http://click.egroups.com/1/6254/12/_/567109/_/962988065/
                                > > >
                                > >
                                > --------------------------------------------------------------------
                                > >----
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Genealogy yn Fryslân:
                                > >http://members1.chello.nl/~a.stienstra/frgen/
                                > > > > of: http://go.to/frgen .
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > >
                                > --------------------------------------------------------------------
                                > >----
                                > > > Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and find your
                                ancestors
                                > >now.
                                > > > Search over 550 million names and trace your family tree today.
                                > >Click here:
                                > > > http://click.egroups.com/1/6254/12/_/567109/_/963015303/
                                > >
                                > --------------------------------------------------------------------
                                > >----
                                > > >
                                > > > Genealogy yn Fryslân:
                                http://members1.chello.nl/~a.stienstra/frgen/
                                > > > of: http://go.to/frgen .
                                > > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                >
                                >---------------------------------------------------------------------
                                ---
                                > >Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and find your ancestors
                                now.
                                > >Search over 550 million names and trace your family tree today.
                                Click here:
                                > >http://click.egroups.com/1/6254/12/_/567109/_/963049091/
                                >
                                >---------------------------------------------------------------------
                                ---
                                > >
                                > >Genealogy yn Fryslân: http://members1.chello.nl/~a.stienstra/frgen/
                                > >of: http://go.to/frgen .
                                > >
                                >
                                >
                                ______________________________________________________________________
                                __
                                > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
                                http://www.hotmail.com
                                >
                                >
                                > --------------------------------------------------------------------
                                ----
                                > 0% Introductory APR!
                                > Instant Approval!
                                > Aria Visa - get yours today.
                                > http://click.egroups.com/1/6035/12/_/567109/_/963258014/
                                > --------------------------------------------------------------------
                                ----
                                >
                                > Genealogy yn Fryslân: http://members1.chello.nl/~a.stienstra/frgen/
                                > of: http://go.to/frgen .
                                >
                              • MCTeichert@aol.com
                                In a message dated 07/10/2000 4:48:00 PM Central Daylight Time, ... Some people used surnames (both Dutch and Frisian) prior to 1811. Some people chose a
                                Message 15 of 20 , Jul 11 5:54 AM
                                  In a message dated 07/10/2000 4:48:00 PM Central Daylight Time,
                                  gpieterse@... writes:

                                  > hat I would also like to know is why the name "de Vries",
                                  > understandably prevalent in Friesland and a popular choice in 1811, is
                                  > also prevalent in the rest of the Netherlands as well as in the Dutch
                                  > Jewish community? Were these names also chosen during Napoleon's rule,
                                  > or did they come through from a much earlier age?

                                  Some people used surnames (both Dutch and Frisian) prior to 1811. Some people
                                  chose a surname in 1811. Naturally some people left Friesland and went south
                                  into Holland etc. Those that went to non-Frisian regions of the Netherlands,
                                  were usually called 'the Frisian' by locals. The newcomer probably spoke
                                  Dutch with an accent.

                                  I can't comment about the Jewish community. Perhaps a larger portion of the
                                  Jews in the NL's went to Friesland first and then moved south. I really don't
                                  know.

                                  Matthias Teichert

                                  "Ball ist rund. Spiel dauert neunzig Minuten. Soviel ist schon mal klar.
                                  Alles andere ist Theorie. Und Ab!" - Schuster, Lola Rennt.
                                Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.