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Re: [Friesland-genealogy] napoleonic decree of 1811

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  • Hans & Rinske Van Brederode
    Hello Matthias. According to our Friesian family history the naming of the children went thus: the first son was names after the father s father, the second
    Message 1 of 20 , Jul 7, 2000
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      Hello Matthias.
      According to our Friesian family history the naming of the children went thus:
      the first son was names after the father's father, the second son after the
      mother's father, the first daughter after the mothers mother and the second
      daughter after the father's mother. After that the parents sibling's names were
      used.
      Does anyone else have the same custom in the family?
      Rinske van Brederode
      Barrie, Ontario, Canada


      MCTeichert@... wrote:

      > Dianne,
      >
      > Nobility and wealthy farmers did use a surname and often towns folk too. With
      > each century, up to 1811, more and more people used surnames. Most common
      > people didn't have surnames. Traditionally Frisians have sued a patronymic
      > names like, Tjerk Jans (Jan'son'). Their first name usually came from their
      > mother's father. There is more to the tradition than what I explained here.
      > Even when families did use a formal surname, they contiued to use this
      > tradition. For example, my grandfather was Jacob Jans de Hoog, his father was
      > Jan Tjerks de Hoog, and his mother's father was Jacob Hoeksma.
      >
      > In my experience (I may be wrong) a larger number of towns people used Dutch
      > surnames prior to 1811. Can anyone comment?
      >
      > Frisian names ending with -sma, -ma, -inga, -inia (really an -inga), -da are
      > patronymic. Although there are exceptions, non-patronymic -sma and -ma names
      > likes my gr-grandmother's maiden name Hoeksma. Names ending with -stra, are
      > origin names (I think -na is an origin ending too). If you would like, send
      > me a list of your Frisian surnames and I can probably tell what most of them
      > mean.
      >
      > Matthias Teichert
      > Minneapolis, MN
      > MCTeichert@...
      >
      > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
      > Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and find your ancestors now.
      > Search over 550 million names and trace your family tree today. Click here:
      > http://click.egroups.com/1/6254/12/_/567109/_/962988065/
      > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
      >
      > Genealogy yn Fryslân: http://members1.chello.nl/~a.stienstra/frgen/
      > of: http://go.to/frgen .
    • H. Kuiphof
      Wil je zo vriendelijk zijn ook even na te gaan of er een Kuiphof of een Kuyphoff in het genoemde boek staan ? Bij voorbaat hartelijk dank Vriendelijke groeten
      Message 2 of 20 , Jul 8, 2000
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        Wil je zo vriendelijk zijn ook even na te gaan of er een Kuiphof of een
        Kuyphoff in het genoemde boek staan ? Bij voorbaat hartelijk dank
        Vriendelijke groeten / kindly regards
        H. Kuiphof, Holland

        -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
        Van: Bram Sonneveld <bso@...>
        Aan: Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com <Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com>
        Datum: vrijdag 7 juli 2000 21:16
        Onderwerp: Re: [Friesland-genealogy] napoleonic decree of 1811


        >Dianne,
        >
        >According to the book De Nederlandsche Geslachtsnamen (The Dutch surnames),
        >by J. Winkler, the book is from 1885, but still the best in this field, the
        >name Walta may either by derived from the word "woud", which means 'wood',
        >the Frisian word for it is ';wald' or 'walt', so Walta means 'from the
        >wood', the second possibility is that the name comes from the mensname
        >'Walte' or 'Woldo' and then it is a patronimicum.
        >Bram Sonneveld
        >-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
        >Van: Dianne.W.Hart@... <Dianne.W.Hart@...>
        >Aan: Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com <Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com>
        >Datum: vrijdag 7 juli 2000 19:06
        >Onderwerp: RE: [Friesland-genealogy] napoleonic decree of 1811
        >
        >
        >>Matthias,
        >>
        >>My maiden name is Walta. Although the name pops up in history books
        >referring to
        >>a period around 1500 and some mummies in Wiewerd are called Waltas and one
        >can
        >>see the name on the streets in Tjerkwerd, the name apparently was not in
        >use
        >>prior to 1811 according to a genealogist. That makes me wonder if someone
        >simply
        >>applied the name Walta to people/soldiers/mummies/streets AFTER 1811.
        >>
        >>Thank you for your prompt response!
        >>
        >>Dianne
        >>
        >>-----Original Message-----
        >>From: MCTeichert@... [mailto:MCTeichert@...]
        >>Sent: Friday, July 07, 2000 9:40 AM
        >>To: Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com
        >>Subject: Re: [Friesland-genealogy] napoleonic decree of 1811
        >>
        >>
        >>Dianne,
        >>
        >>Nobility and wealthy farmers did use a surname and often towns folk too.
        >With
        >>each century, up to 1811, more and more people used surnames. Most common
        >>people didn't have surnames. Traditionally Frisians have sued a patronymic
        >>names like, Tjerk Jans (Jan'son'). Their first name usually came from
        their
        >>mother's father. There is more to the tradition than what I explained
        here.
        >>Even when families did use a formal surname, they contiued to use this
        >>tradition. For example, my grandfather was Jacob Jans de Hoog, his father
        >was
        >>Jan Tjerks de Hoog, and his mother's father was Jacob Hoeksma.
        >>
        >>In my experience (I may be wrong) a larger number of towns people used
        >Dutch
        >>surnames prior to 1811. Can anyone comment?
        >>
        >>Frisian names ending with -sma, -ma, -inga, -inia (really an -inga), -da
        >are
        >>patronymic. Although there are exceptions, non-patronymic -sma and -ma
        >names
        >>likes my gr-grandmother's maiden name Hoeksma. Names ending with -stra,
        are
        >>origin names (I think -na is an origin ending too). If you would like,
        send
        >>me a list of your Frisian surnames and I can probably tell what most of
        >them
        >>mean.
        >>
        >>Matthias Teichert
        >>Minneapolis, MN
        >>MCTeichert@...
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>------------------------------------------------------------------------
        >>Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and find your ancestors now.
        >>Search over 550 million names and trace your family tree today. Click
        here:
        >>http://click.egroups.com/1/6254/12/_/567109/_/962988065/
        >>------------------------------------------------------------------------
        >>
        >>Genealogy yn Fryslân: http://members1.chello.nl/~a.stienstra/frgen/
        >>of: http://go.to/frgen .
        >>
        >>------------------------------------------------------------------------
        >>Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and find your ancestors now.
        >>Search over 550 million names and trace your family tree today. Click
        here:
        >>http://click.egroups.com/1/6254/12/_/567109/_/962989407/
        >>------------------------------------------------------------------------
        >>
        >>Genealogy yn Fryslân: http://members1.chello.nl/~a.stienstra/frgen/
        >>of: http://go.to/frgen .
        >>
        >
        >
        >------------------------------------------------------------------------
        >Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and find your ancestors now.
        >Search over 550 million names and trace your family tree today. Click here:
        >http://click.egroups.com/1/6254/12/_/567109/_/962997394/
        >------------------------------------------------------------------------
        >
        >Genealogy yn Fryslân: http://members1.chello.nl/~a.stienstra/frgen/
        >of: http://go.to/frgen .
        >
      • Gerda
        Dear Rinske In our family the custom is also followed, but with exceptions. My great grandfather married twice, his first wife died with childbirth, but the
        Message 3 of 20 , Jul 8, 2000
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          Dear Rinske

          In our family the custom is also followed, but with exceptions. My
          great grandfather married twice, his first wife died with childbirth,
          but the child survived and was named Jetske, after her mother. When gr
          grandfather married again, his first two daughters were named after
          the maternal and paternal grandmothers respectively, but then the
          child from the first marriage died at age seven, and the next daughter
          was named after her. This Jetske was a full sister sister of my
          grandmother Maaike. When my grandmother married her sister Jetske had
          also passed away, as had the paternal grandmother, so the paternal
          grandmother was named first, then the sister, and after those the
          maternal grandmother who was still alive at the time.

          My grandmother always went to great lengths to explain that the naming
          protocol was reversed, and who was named after whom in the family. I
          have heard that this is particularly true of the "Doopsgezinden",
          which this family was, but haven't had this explained to me yet.

          In other families I have found that pre-deceased children are also
          renamed several times. The ten Brink's had three sons named Johannes
          (none survived the first year)

          Regards

          Gerda

          .

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Hans & Rinske Van Brederode" <van.brederode@...>
          To: <Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com>
          Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2000 2:13 AM
          Subject: Re: [Friesland-genealogy] napoleonic decree of 1811


          > Hello Matthias.
          > According to our Friesian family history the naming of the children
          went thus:
          > the first son was names after the father's father, the second son
          after the
          > mother's father, the first daughter after the mothers mother and the
          second
          > daughter after the father's mother. After that the parents
          sibling's names were
          > used.
          > Does anyone else have the same custom in the family?
          > Rinske van Brederode
          > Barrie, Ontario, Canada
          >
          >
          > MCTeichert@... wrote:
          >
          > > Dianne,
          > >
          > > Nobility and wealthy farmers did use a surname and often towns
          folk too. With
          > > each century, up to 1811, more and more people used surnames. Most
          common
          > > people didn't have surnames. Traditionally Frisians have sued a
          patronymic
          > > names like, Tjerk Jans (Jan'son'). Their first name usually came
          from their
          > > mother's father. There is more to the tradition than what I
          explained here.
          > > Even when families did use a formal surname, they contiued to use
          this
          > > tradition. For example, my grandfather was Jacob Jans de Hoog, his
          father was
          > > Jan Tjerks de Hoog, and his mother's father was Jacob Hoeksma.
          > >
          > > In my experience (I may be wrong) a larger number of towns people
          used Dutch
          > > surnames prior to 1811. Can anyone comment?
          > >
          > > Frisian names ending with -sma, -ma, -inga, -inia (really
          an -inga), -da are
          > > patronymic. Although there are exceptions, non-patronymic -sma
          and -ma names
          > > likes my gr-grandmother's maiden name Hoeksma. Names ending
          with -stra, are
          > > origin names (I think -na is an origin ending too). If you would
          like, send
          > > me a list of your Frisian surnames and I can probably tell what
          most of them
          > > mean.
          > >
          > > Matthias Teichert
          > > Minneapolis, MN
          > > MCTeichert@...
          > >
          >
          > --------------------------------------------------------------------
          ----
          > > Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and find your ancestors
          now.
          > > Search over 550 million names and trace your family tree today.
          Click here:
          > > http://click.egroups.com/1/6254/12/_/567109/_/962988065/
          >
          > --------------------------------------------------------------------
          ----
          > >
          > > Genealogy yn Fryslân:
          http://members1.chello.nl/~a.stienstra/frgen/
          > > of: http://go.to/frgen .
          >
          >
          > --------------------------------------------------------------------
          ----
          > Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and find your ancestors
          now.
          > Search over 550 million names and trace your family tree today.
          Click here:
          > http://click.egroups.com/1/6254/12/_/567109/_/963015303/
          > --------------------------------------------------------------------
          ----
          >
          > Genealogy yn Fryslân: http://members1.chello.nl/~a.stienstra/frgen/
          > of: http://go.to/frgen .
          >
        • Gerda
          Beste Bram Mag ik vragen of de Katsma/Catsma ook in het boek staat? De familie had de naam van ouds bij registratie in 1811. Bijvoorbaat dank Gerda ... From:
          Message 4 of 20 , Jul 8, 2000
          • 0 Attachment
            Beste Bram

            Mag ik vragen of de Katsma/Catsma ook in het boek staat? De familie
            "had de naam van ouds" bij registratie in 1811.

            Bijvoorbaat dank

            Gerda


            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Bram Sonneveld" <bso@...>
            To: <Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com>
            Sent: Friday, July 07, 2000 9:26 PM
            Subject: Re: [Friesland-genealogy] napoleonic decree of 1811


            > Dianne,
            >
            > According to the book De Nederlandsche Geslachtsnamen (The Dutch
            surnames),
            > by J. Winkler, the book is from 1885, but still the best in this
            field, the
            > name Walta may either by derived from the word "woud", which means
            'wood',
            > the Frisian word for it is ';wald' or 'walt', so Walta means 'from
            the
            > wood', the second possibility is that the name comes from the
            mensname
            > 'Walte' or 'Woldo' and then it is a patronimicum.
            > Bram Sonneveld
            > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
            > Van: Dianne.W.Hart@... <Dianne.W.Hart@...>
            > Aan: Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com
            <Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com>
            > Datum: vrijdag 7 juli 2000 19:06
            > Onderwerp: RE: [Friesland-genealogy] napoleonic decree of 1811
            >
            >
            > >Matthias,
            > >
            > >My maiden name is Walta. Although the name pops up in history books
            > referring to
            > >a period around 1500 and some mummies in Wiewerd are called Waltas
            and one
            > can
            > >see the name on the streets in Tjerkwerd, the name apparently was
            not in
            > use
            > >prior to 1811 according to a genealogist. That makes me wonder if
            someone
            > simply
            > >applied the name Walta to people/soldiers/mummies/streets AFTER
            1811.
            > >
            > >Thank you for your prompt response!
            > >
            > >Dianne
            > >
            > >-----Original Message-----
            > >From: MCTeichert@... [mailto:MCTeichert@...]
            > >Sent: Friday, July 07, 2000 9:40 AM
            > >To: Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com
            > >Subject: Re: [Friesland-genealogy] napoleonic decree of 1811
            > >
            > >
            > >Dianne,
            > >
            > >Nobility and wealthy farmers did use a surname and often towns folk
            too.
            > With
            > >each century, up to 1811, more and more people used surnames. Most
            common
            > >people didn't have surnames. Traditionally Frisians have sued a
            patronymic
            > >names like, Tjerk Jans (Jan'son'). Their first name usually came
            from their
            > >mother's father. There is more to the tradition than what I
            explained here.
            > >Even when families did use a formal surname, they contiued to use
            this
            > >tradition. For example, my grandfather was Jacob Jans de Hoog, his
            father
            > was
            > >Jan Tjerks de Hoog, and his mother's father was Jacob Hoeksma.
            > >
            > >In my experience (I may be wrong) a larger number of towns people
            used
            > Dutch
            > >surnames prior to 1811. Can anyone comment?
            > >
            > >Frisian names ending with -sma, -ma, -inga, -inia (really
            an -inga), -da
            > are
            > >patronymic. Although there are exceptions, non-patronymic -sma
            and -ma
            > names
            > >likes my gr-grandmother's maiden name Hoeksma. Names ending
            with -stra, are
            > >origin names (I think -na is an origin ending too). If you would
            like, send
            > >me a list of your Frisian surnames and I can probably tell what
            most of
            > them
            > >mean.
            > >
            > >Matthias Teichert
            > >Minneapolis, MN
            > >MCTeichert@...
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            >---------------------------------------------------------------------
            ---
            > >Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and find your ancestors
            now.
            > >Search over 550 million names and trace your family tree today.
            Click here:
            > >http://click.egroups.com/1/6254/12/_/567109/_/962988065/
            >
            >---------------------------------------------------------------------
            ---
            > >
            > >Genealogy yn Fryslân: http://members1.chello.nl/~a.stienstra/frgen/
            > >of: http://go.to/frgen .
            > >
            >
            >---------------------------------------------------------------------
            ---
            > >Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and find your ancestors
            now.
            > >Search over 550 million names and trace your family tree today.
            Click here:
            > >http://click.egroups.com/1/6254/12/_/567109/_/962989407/
            >
            >---------------------------------------------------------------------
            ---
            > >
            > >Genealogy yn Fryslân: http://members1.chello.nl/~a.stienstra/frgen/

            > >of: http://go.to/frgen .
            > >
            >
            >
            > --------------------------------------------------------------------
            ----
            > Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and find your ancestors
            now.
            > Search over 550 million names and trace your family tree today.
            Click here:
            > http://click.egroups.com/1/6254/12/_/567109/_/962997394/
            > --------------------------------------------------------------------
            ----
            >
            > Genealogy yn Fryslân: http://members1.chello.nl/~a.stienstra/frgen/
            > of: http://go.to/frgen .
            >
          • James H. DeYoung
            Please Delete my name from all future mailings. Thank you. ... From: Gerda [mailto:gpieterse@intekom.co.za] Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2000 5:54 AM To:
            Message 5 of 20 , Jul 8, 2000
            • 0 Attachment
              Please Delete my name from all future mailings. Thank you.

              -----Original Message-----
              From: Gerda [mailto:gpieterse@...]
              Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2000 5:54 AM
              To: Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com
              Subject: Re: [Friesland-genealogy] napoleonic decree of 1811


              Beste Bram

              Mag ik vragen of de Katsma/Catsma ook in het boek staat? De familie
              "had de naam van ouds" bij registratie in 1811.

              Bijvoorbaat dank

              Gerda


              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Bram Sonneveld" <bso@...>
              To: <Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com>
              Sent: Friday, July 07, 2000 9:26 PM
              Subject: Re: [Friesland-genealogy] napoleonic decree of 1811


              > Dianne,
              >
              > According to the book De Nederlandsche Geslachtsnamen (The Dutch
              surnames),
              > by J. Winkler, the book is from 1885, but still the best in this
              field, the
              > name Walta may either by derived from the word "woud", which means
              'wood',
              > the Frisian word for it is ';wald' or 'walt', so Walta means 'from
              the
              > wood', the second possibility is that the name comes from the
              mensname
              > 'Walte' or 'Woldo' and then it is a patronimicum.
              > Bram Sonneveld
              > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
              > Van: Dianne.W.Hart@... <Dianne.W.Hart@...>
              > Aan: Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com
              <Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com>
              > Datum: vrijdag 7 juli 2000 19:06
              > Onderwerp: RE: [Friesland-genealogy] napoleonic decree of 1811
              >
              >
              > >Matthias,
              > >
              > >My maiden name is Walta. Although the name pops up in history books
              > referring to
              > >a period around 1500 and some mummies in Wiewerd are called Waltas
              and one
              > can
              > >see the name on the streets in Tjerkwerd, the name apparently was
              not in
              > use
              > >prior to 1811 according to a genealogist. That makes me wonder if
              someone
              > simply
              > >applied the name Walta to people/soldiers/mummies/streets AFTER
              1811.
              > >
              > >Thank you for your prompt response!
              > >
              > >Dianne
              > >
              > >-----Original Message-----
              > >From: MCTeichert@... [mailto:MCTeichert@...]
              > >Sent: Friday, July 07, 2000 9:40 AM
              > >To: Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com
              > >Subject: Re: [Friesland-genealogy] napoleonic decree of 1811
              > >
              > >
              > >Dianne,
              > >
              > >Nobility and wealthy farmers did use a surname and often towns folk
              too.
              > With
              > >each century, up to 1811, more and more people used surnames. Most
              common
              > >people didn't have surnames. Traditionally Frisians have sued a
              patronymic
              > >names like, Tjerk Jans (Jan'son'). Their first name usually came
              from their
              > >mother's father. There is more to the tradition than what I
              explained here.
              > >Even when families did use a formal surname, they contiued to use
              this
              > >tradition. For example, my grandfather was Jacob Jans de Hoog, his
              father
              > was
              > >Jan Tjerks de Hoog, and his mother's father was Jacob Hoeksma.
              > >
              > >In my experience (I may be wrong) a larger number of towns people
              used
              > Dutch
              > >surnames prior to 1811. Can anyone comment?
              > >
              > >Frisian names ending with -sma, -ma, -inga, -inia (really
              an -inga), -da
              > are
              > >patronymic. Although there are exceptions, non-patronymic -sma
              and -ma
              > names
              > >likes my gr-grandmother's maiden name Hoeksma. Names ending
              with -stra, are
              > >origin names (I think -na is an origin ending too). If you would
              like, send
              > >me a list of your Frisian surnames and I can probably tell what
              most of
              > them
              > >mean.
              > >
              > >Matthias Teichert
              > >Minneapolis, MN
              > >MCTeichert@...
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              >---------------------------------------------------------------------
              ---
              > >Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and find your ancestors
              now.
              > >Search over 550 million names and trace your family tree today.
              Click here:
              > >http://click.egroups.com/1/6254/12/_/567109/_/962988065/
              >
              >---------------------------------------------------------------------
              ---
              > >
              > >Genealogy yn Fryslân: http://members1.chello.nl/~a.stienstra/frgen/
              > >of: http://go.to/frgen .
              > >
              >
              >---------------------------------------------------------------------
              ---
              > >Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and find your ancestors
              now.
              > >Search over 550 million names and trace your family tree today.
              Click here:
              > >http://click.egroups.com/1/6254/12/_/567109/_/962989407/
              >
              >---------------------------------------------------------------------
              ---
              > >
              > >Genealogy yn Fryslân: http://members1.chello.nl/~a.stienstra/frgen/

              > >of: http://go.to/frgen .
              > >
              >
              >
              > --------------------------------------------------------------------
              ----
              > Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and find your ancestors
              now.
              > Search over 550 million names and trace your family tree today.
              Click here:
              > http://click.egroups.com/1/6254/12/_/567109/_/962997394/
              > --------------------------------------------------------------------
              ----
              >
              > Genealogy yn Fryslân: http://members1.chello.nl/~a.stienstra/frgen/
              > of: http://go.to/frgen .
              >


              ------------------------------------------------------------------------
              Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and find your ancestors now.
              Search over 550 million names and trace your family tree today. Click here:
              http://click.egroups.com/1/6254/12/_/567109/_/963049579/
              ------------------------------------------------------------------------

              Genealogy yn Fryslân: http://members1.chello.nl/~a.stienstra/frgen/
              of: http://go.to/frgen .
            • Bram Sonneveld
              Henk, Ik begrijp dat jij degene bent die ook in de namendatabank van het P.J. Meertens-instituut genoemd wordt, dus die informatie heb je al. In Winkler wordt
              Message 6 of 20 , Jul 8, 2000
              • 0 Attachment
                Henk,
                Ik begrijp dat jij degene bent die ook in de namendatabank van het P.J.
                Meertens-instituut genoemd wordt, dus die informatie heb je al.
                In Winkler wordt Kuiphof/Kuyphof(f) niet genoemd. Wel in Huizinga's,
                Complete lijst van namen, Tirion, Baarn, z.j., aldaar onder "Hof".
                Winkler heeft wel een stukje over namen "Met hof". Ik citeer van p. 278:
                "Met hof: Aldershof, Ameshoff, AAttenhoven, Balkenhoven, Bomhoff, Eekhoff,
                Eeckhoff en Eekhof, Kouwenhoven, Kruythoo, Noordhof, Nyhoff, Rauwenhoff,
                Sijthoff, Spaenhoven, Uuldershof, Uvenhoven en het verlatynschte
                Lindenhovius.
                Hof, hove, have, zijn oorspronkelik de zelfde woorden, in verschillende form
                en uitspraak."
                En zo gaat het nog even door. Winkler had een zeer idiosyncratisch
                taalgebruik. De "taalfouten" zijn dus van hem.
                Mijn konklusie: Iemand die woonde in een hof (tuin, etc.) met een kuip, of
                waar een kuiper woonde, noemde zich Kuiphof.
                Overigens, Huizinga heeft ongeveer 150 'hof'-namen.
                Met groet,
                Bram Sonneveld
                -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
                Van: H. Kuiphof <henk.kuiphof@...>
                Aan: Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com <Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com>
                Datum: zaterdag 8 juli 2000 10:11
                Onderwerp: Re: [Friesland-genealogy] napoleonic decree of 1811


                >Wil je zo vriendelijk zijn ook even na te gaan of er een Kuiphof of een
                >Kuyphoff in het genoemde boek staan ? Bij voorbaat hartelijk dank
                >Vriendelijke groeten / kindly regards
                >H. Kuiphof, Holland
                >
                >-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
                >Van: Bram Sonneveld <bso@...>
                >Aan: Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com <Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com>
                >Datum: vrijdag 7 juli 2000 21:16
                >Onderwerp: Re: [Friesland-genealogy] napoleonic decree of 1811
                >
                >
                >>Dianne,
                >>
                >>According to the book De Nederlandsche Geslachtsnamen (The Dutch
                surnames),
                >>by J. Winkler, the book is from 1885, but still the best in this field,
                the
                >>name Walta may either by derived from the word "woud", which means 'wood',
                >>the Frisian word for it is ';wald' or 'walt', so Walta means 'from the
                >>wood', the second possibility is that the name comes from the mensname
                >>'Walte' or 'Woldo' and then it is a patronimicum.
                >>Bram Sonneveld
                >>-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
                >>Van: Dianne.W.Hart@... <Dianne.W.Hart@...>
                >>Aan: Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com <Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com>
                >>Datum: vrijdag 7 juli 2000 19:06
                >>Onderwerp: RE: [Friesland-genealogy] napoleonic decree of 1811
                >>
                >>
                >>>Matthias,
                >>>
                >>>My maiden name is Walta. Although the name pops up in history books
                >>referring to
                >>>a period around 1500 and some mummies in Wiewerd are called Waltas and
                one
                >>can
                >>>see the name on the streets in Tjerkwerd, the name apparently was not in
                >>use
                >>>prior to 1811 according to a genealogist. That makes me wonder if someone
                >>simply
                >>>applied the name Walta to people/soldiers/mummies/streets AFTER 1811.
                >>>
                >>>Thank you for your prompt response!
                >>>
                >>>Dianne
                >>>
                >>>-----Original Message-----
                >>>From: MCTeichert@... [mailto:MCTeichert@...]
                >>>Sent: Friday, July 07, 2000 9:40 AM
                >>>To: Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com
                >>>Subject: Re: [Friesland-genealogy] napoleonic decree of 1811
                >>>
                >>>
                >>>Dianne,
                >>>
                >>>Nobility and wealthy farmers did use a surname and often towns folk too.
                >>With
                >>>each century, up to 1811, more and more people used surnames. Most common
                >>>people didn't have surnames. Traditionally Frisians have sued a
                patronymic
                >>>names like, Tjerk Jans (Jan'son'). Their first name usually came from
                >their
                >>>mother's father. There is more to the tradition than what I explained
                >here.
                >>>Even when families did use a formal surname, they contiued to use this
                >>>tradition. For example, my grandfather was Jacob Jans de Hoog, his father
                >>was
                >>>Jan Tjerks de Hoog, and his mother's father was Jacob Hoeksma.
                >>>
                >>>In my experience (I may be wrong) a larger number of towns people used
                >>Dutch
                >>>surnames prior to 1811. Can anyone comment?
                >>>
                >>>Frisian names ending with -sma, -ma, -inga, -inia (really an -inga), -da
                >>are
                >>>patronymic. Although there are exceptions, non-patronymic -sma and -ma
                >>names
                >>>likes my gr-grandmother's maiden name Hoeksma. Names ending with -stra,
                >are
                >>>origin names (I think -na is an origin ending too). If you would like,
                >send
                >>>me a list of your Frisian surnames and I can probably tell what most of
                >>them
                >>>mean.
                >>>
                >>>Matthias Teichert
                >>>Minneapolis, MN
                >>>MCTeichert@...
                >>>
                >>>
                >>>
                >>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
                >>>Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and find your ancestors now.
                >>>Search over 550 million names and trace your family tree today. Click
                >here:
                >>>http://click.egroups.com/1/6254/12/_/567109/_/962988065/
                >>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
                >>>
                >>>Genealogy yn Fryslân: http://members1.chello.nl/~a.stienstra/frgen/
                >>>of: http://go.to/frgen .
                >>>
                >>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
                >>>Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and find your ancestors now.
                >>>Search over 550 million names and trace your family tree today. Click
                >here:
                >>>http://click.egroups.com/1/6254/12/_/567109/_/962989407/
                >>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
                >>>
                >>>Genealogy yn Fryslân: http://members1.chello.nl/~a.stienstra/frgen/
                >>>of: http://go.to/frgen .
                >>>
                >>
                >>
                >>------------------------------------------------------------------------
                >>Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and find your ancestors now.
                >>Search over 550 million names and trace your family tree today. Click
                here:
                >>http://click.egroups.com/1/6254/12/_/567109/_/962997394/
                >>------------------------------------------------------------------------
                >>
                >>Genealogy yn Fryslân: http://members1.chello.nl/~a.stienstra/frgen/
                >>of: http://go.to/frgen .
                >>
                >
                >
                >------------------------------------------------------------------------
                >Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and find your ancestors now.
                >Search over 550 million names and trace your family tree today. Click here:
                >http://click.egroups.com/1/6254/12/_/567109/_/963043757/
                >------------------------------------------------------------------------
                >
                >Genealogy yn Fryslân: http://members1.chello.nl/~a.stienstra/frgen/
                >of: http://go.to/frgen .
                >
              • Bram Sonneveld
                Gerda, Ja, Katsma komt voor bij Winkler. Ik zal het stukje daarover letterlijk voor je overschrijven. Winkler was zeer erudiet, en dus erg eigenwijs, dat
                Message 7 of 20 , Jul 8, 2000
                • 0 Attachment
                  Gerda,

                  Ja, Katsma komt voor bij Winkler. Ik zal het stukje daarover letterlijk voor
                  je overschrijven. Winkler was zeer erudiet, en dus erg eigenwijs, dat blijkt
                  ook uit zijn spelling. Als er fouten in het onderstaande te vinden zijn, dan
                  zijn dat Winklers eigenaardigheden:
                  Blz. 390: "Catto, Katte, Kat is een oud-germaansche mansvoornaam, die ook in
                  samenstellingen, als Catuald (Katwalt) en Catumer (Katmar) voorkomt, en door
                  Förstemann in zijn Altdeutsches namenbuch tot drie verschillende
                  naamstammen, Chad, Gad en Hath, gebracht wordt. Een enkele der talryke
                  geslachtsnamen Kat en Cat, en, in den tweeden naamval als patronymikon,
                  Kats, Cats en Catz, zal zeker wel van dezen ouden mansvoornaam afstammen.
                  Zekerlik is dit het geval met de friesche patronymikale geslachtsnamen
                  Katsma en Katma, en met menigen plaatsnaam. Waarschijnlijk behoort het
                  patronymokon Caeding, dat by de Angel-Saksen voorkwam, ook wel tot dezen
                  mansnaam. Buitendien kan de geslachtsnaam Cats, Katz, behalven een
                  tweede-naamvalsform van den diernaam, of van den mansvoornaam, ook nog de
                  plaatsnaam Kats of Cats zijn, zoo als een dorp heet op het zeeusche eiland
                  Noord-Beveland. By de zeeusche maagschap Cats althans meen ik dat dit
                  zekerlik het geval is."
                  Groet,
                  Bram Sonneveld
                  -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
                  Van: Gerda <gpieterse@...>
                  Aan: Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com <Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com>
                  Datum: zaterdag 8 juli 2000 11:49
                  Onderwerp: Re: [Friesland-genealogy] napoleonic decree of 1811


                  >Beste Bram
                  >
                  >Mag ik vragen of de Katsma/Catsma ook in het boek staat? De familie
                  >"had de naam van ouds" bij registratie in 1811.
                  >
                  >Bijvoorbaat dank
                  >
                  >Gerda
                  >
                  >
                  >----- Original Message -----
                  >From: "Bram Sonneveld" <bso@...>
                  >To: <Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com>
                  >Sent: Friday, July 07, 2000 9:26 PM
                  >Subject: Re: [Friesland-genealogy] napoleonic decree of 1811
                  >
                  >
                  >> Dianne,
                  >>
                  >> According to the book De Nederlandsche Geslachtsnamen (The Dutch
                  >surnames),
                  >> by J. Winkler, the book is from 1885, but still the best in this
                  >field, the
                  >> name Walta may either by derived from the word "woud", which means
                  >'wood',
                  >> the Frisian word for it is ';wald' or 'walt', so Walta means 'from
                  >the
                  >> wood', the second possibility is that the name comes from the
                  >mensname
                  >> 'Walte' or 'Woldo' and then it is a patronimicum.
                  >> Bram Sonneveld
                  >> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
                  >> Van: Dianne.W.Hart@... <Dianne.W.Hart@...>
                  >> Aan: Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com
                  ><Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com>
                  >> Datum: vrijdag 7 juli 2000 19:06
                  >> Onderwerp: RE: [Friesland-genealogy] napoleonic decree of 1811
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> >Matthias,
                  >> >
                  >> >My maiden name is Walta. Although the name pops up in history books
                  >> referring to
                  >> >a period around 1500 and some mummies in Wiewerd are called Waltas
                  >and one
                  >> can
                  >> >see the name on the streets in Tjerkwerd, the name apparently was
                  >not in
                  >> use
                  >> >prior to 1811 according to a genealogist. That makes me wonder if
                  >someone
                  >> simply
                  >> >applied the name Walta to people/soldiers/mummies/streets AFTER
                  >1811.
                  >> >
                  >> >Thank you for your prompt response!
                  >> >
                  >> >Dianne
                  >> >
                  >> >-----Original Message-----
                  >> >From: MCTeichert@... [mailto:MCTeichert@...]
                  >> >Sent: Friday, July 07, 2000 9:40 AM
                  >> >To: Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com
                  >> >Subject: Re: [Friesland-genealogy] napoleonic decree of 1811
                  >> >
                  >> >
                  >> >Dianne,
                  >> >
                  >> >Nobility and wealthy farmers did use a surname and often towns folk
                  >too.
                  >> With
                  >> >each century, up to 1811, more and more people used surnames. Most
                  >common
                  >> >people didn't have surnames. Traditionally Frisians have sued a
                  >patronymic
                  >> >names like, Tjerk Jans (Jan'son'). Their first name usually came
                  >from their
                  >> >mother's father. There is more to the tradition than what I
                  >explained here.
                  >> >Even when families did use a formal surname, they contiued to use
                  >this
                  >> >tradition. For example, my grandfather was Jacob Jans de Hoog, his
                  >father
                  >> was
                  >> >Jan Tjerks de Hoog, and his mother's father was Jacob Hoeksma.
                  >> >
                  >> >In my experience (I may be wrong) a larger number of towns people
                  >used
                  >> Dutch
                  >> >surnames prior to 1811. Can anyone comment?
                  >> >
                  >> >Frisian names ending with -sma, -ma, -inga, -inia (really
                  >an -inga), -da
                  >> are
                  >> >patronymic. Although there are exceptions, non-patronymic -sma
                  >and -ma
                  >> names
                  >> >likes my gr-grandmother's maiden name Hoeksma. Names ending
                  >with -stra, are
                  >> >origin names (I think -na is an origin ending too). If you would
                  >like, send
                  >> >me a list of your Frisian surnames and I can probably tell what
                  >most of
                  >> them
                  >> >mean.
                  >> >
                  >> >Matthias Teichert
                  >> >Minneapolis, MN
                  >> >MCTeichert@...
                  >> >
                  >> >
                  >> >
                  >>
                  >>---------------------------------------------------------------------
                  >---
                  >> >Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and find your ancestors
                  >now.
                  >> >Search over 550 million names and trace your family tree today.
                  >Click here:
                  >> >http://click.egroups.com/1/6254/12/_/567109/_/962988065/
                  >>
                  >>---------------------------------------------------------------------
                  >---
                  >> >
                  >> >Genealogy yn Fryslân: http://members1.chello.nl/~a.stienstra/frgen/
                  >> >of: http://go.to/frgen .
                  >> >
                  >>
                  >>---------------------------------------------------------------------
                  >---
                  >> >Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and find your ancestors
                  >now.
                  >> >Search over 550 million names and trace your family tree today.
                  >Click here:
                  >> >http://click.egroups.com/1/6254/12/_/567109/_/962989407/
                  >>
                  >>---------------------------------------------------------------------
                  >---
                  >> >
                  >> >Genealogy yn Fryslân: http://members1.chello.nl/~a.stienstra/frgen/
                  >
                  >> >of: http://go.to/frgen .
                  >> >
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> --------------------------------------------------------------------
                  >----
                  >> Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and find your ancestors
                  >now.
                  >> Search over 550 million names and trace your family tree today.
                  >Click here:
                  >> http://click.egroups.com/1/6254/12/_/567109/_/962997394/
                  >> --------------------------------------------------------------------
                  >----
                  >>
                  >> Genealogy yn Fryslân: http://members1.chello.nl/~a.stienstra/frgen/
                  >> of: http://go.to/frgen .
                  >>
                  >
                  >
                  >------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  >Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and find your ancestors now.
                  >Search over 550 million names and trace your family tree today. Click here:
                  >http://click.egroups.com/1/6254/12/_/567109/_/963049579/
                  >------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  >
                  >Genealogy yn Fryslân: http://members1.chello.nl/~a.stienstra/frgen/
                  >of: http://go.to/frgen .
                  >
                • siebrigje van der wal
                  ... Hello Rinske, We have the same custom in our family. Although there always are some exceptions. As the first girl I was named after the wrong grandmother
                  Message 8 of 20 , Jul 8, 2000
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Hans & Rinske Van Brederode wrote:

                    > Hello Matthias.
                    > According to our Friesian family history the naming of the children went thus:
                    > the first son was names after the father's father, the second son after the
                    > mother's father, the first daughter after the mothers mother and the second
                    > daughter after the father's mother. After that the parents sibling's names were
                    > used.
                    > Does anyone else have the same custom in the family?
                    > Rinske van Brederode
                    > Barrie, Ontario, Canada
                    >

                    Hello Rinske,

                    We have the same custom in our family. Although there always are some exceptions.
                    As the first girl I was named after the 'wrong' grandmother on father side, because
                    my
                    mother liked her better. Also an uncle, Jan, is named after a deceased brother of my

                    grandmother. Otherwise he would have had the name Bauke. There were already a lot
                    of Bauke's in the family and my father was already named Bokke.
                    I like that Frysian names are still used. (father: Bokke, mother: Ytje, brothers:
                    Anske and Auke,
                    me: Siebrigje)

                    Greetings Siebrigje
                  • Lieko Helmus
                    Everybody doing (Frisian)genealogy soon discovers this (unique?) patron And custom of naming children. How ever far you go back, you find this Strict
                    Message 9 of 20 , Jul 8, 2000
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Everybody doing (Frisian)genealogy soon discovers this (unique?) patron
                      And custom of naming children. How ever far you go back, you find this
                      Strict tradition. Which makes it so fascinating for me to go through the
                      Generations and even see your own name, like in my case, back hundreds
                      Of years ago. How about Lykele Helmigs (“my 260”), born Olterterp around
                      1701 and
                      Married Taetske Uytzes,born Beetsterzwaag 27 March 1709?
                      I am aware that I am from the generation that ended this
                      tradition/custom/patron.
                      Why? Also a result of a sort cultural revolution. Interesting thing that
                      years ago I
                      Met with a Japanese banker, with whom I shared my genealogical hobby and
                      He mentioned that exactly the same process had taken place in his country.
                      So instead of Aaltje, Lolkje, Daniella and Lieuwkje, our daughters were
                      named
                      Alice, Hester Louise, Daniella (my father-in-law Daniel, so pretty
                      close)Deborah
                      and Leontina Marjolijn.
                      If I knew then what I know now………
                      Liekele Lieuwes Helmus, Hilversum
                      PS Hope Andrys allows this sidetrack!
                      ________________________________________________

                      Liekele (Lieko) Helmus & Rinske Helmus-Deutekom
                      Siriusstraat 52, NL-1223 AP Hilversum, the Netherlands
                      31(0)35 6858 675 (+voicemail) Fax 31(0)20 8848 931(fax2pc)
                      gsm 06 28184122 (+SMS) NetMeeting (+Webcam)
                      lhelmus@...




                      [De niet-tekstgedeelten van dit bericht werden verwijderd]
                    • H. Kuiphof
                      Bedankt Bram, Ik ben toch weer een heel klein stukje verder. Ik ben al jaren op zoek naar de oorsprong van mijn naam. Ik vermoed dat deze uit Duitsland komt
                      Message 10 of 20 , Jul 9, 2000
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Bedankt Bram, Ik ben toch weer een heel klein stukje verder. Ik ben al jaren
                        op zoek naar de oorsprong van mijn naam. Ik vermoed dat deze uit Duitsland
                        komt maar enig houvast heb ik niet. Mijn voorvaderen waren Mennonieten en
                        die gebruikten hun achternaam niet, dat paste niet bij hun sobere
                        levensstijl. Het zou ons heel wat gepuzzel hebben bespaard als Napoleon in
                        1811 ook verordineerd had dat men op moest geven waarom men voor een
                        bepaalde naam koos., maar helaas.
                        Vriendelijke groeten / kindly regards
                        H. Kuiphof, Holland
                        e-mail: henk.kuiphof@...

                        -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
                        Van: Bram Sonneveld <bso@...>
                        Aan: Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com <Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com>
                        Datum: zaterdag 8 juli 2000 13:53
                        Onderwerp: Re: [Friesland-genealogy] napoleonic decree of 1811


                        >Henk,
                        >Ik begrijp dat jij degene bent die ook in de namendatabank van het P.J.
                        >Meertens-instituut genoemd wordt, dus die informatie heb je al.
                        >In Winkler wordt Kuiphof/Kuyphof(f) niet genoemd. Wel in Huizinga's,
                        >Complete lijst van namen, Tirion, Baarn, z.j., aldaar onder "Hof".
                        >Winkler heeft wel een stukje over namen "Met hof". Ik citeer van p. 278:
                        >"Met hof: Aldershof, Ameshoff, AAttenhoven, Balkenhoven, Bomhoff, Eekhoff,
                        >Eeckhoff en Eekhof, Kouwenhoven, Kruythoo, Noordhof, Nyhoff, Rauwenhoff,
                        >Sijthoff, Spaenhoven, Uuldershof, Uvenhoven en het verlatynschte
                        >Lindenhovius.
                        >Hof, hove, have, zijn oorspronkelik de zelfde woorden, in verschillende
                        form
                        >en uitspraak."
                        >En zo gaat het nog even door. Winkler had een zeer idiosyncratisch
                        >taalgebruik. De "taalfouten" zijn dus van hem.
                        >Mijn konklusie: Iemand die woonde in een hof (tuin, etc.) met een kuip, of
                        >waar een kuiper woonde, noemde zich Kuiphof.
                        >Overigens, Huizinga heeft ongeveer 150 'hof'-namen.
                        >Met groet,
                        >Bram Sonneveld
                        >-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
                        >Van: H. Kuiphof <henk.kuiphof@...>
                        >Aan: Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com <Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com>
                        >Datum: zaterdag 8 juli 2000 10:11
                        >Onderwerp: Re: [Friesland-genealogy] napoleonic decree of 1811
                      • Jim Van Sluys
                        ... From: To: Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2000 2:40 AM Subject: Re: [Friesland-genealogy] napoleonic decree
                        Message 11 of 20 , Jul 9, 2000
                        • 0 Attachment
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: <MCTeichert@...>
                          To: <Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com>
                          Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2000 2:40 AM
                          Subject: Re: [Friesland-genealogy] napoleonic decree of 1811


                          > Dianne,
                          >
                          > Nobility and wealthy farmers did use a surname and often towns folk too.
                          With
                          > each century, up to 1811, more and more people used surnames. Most common
                          > people didn't have surnames. Traditionally Frisians have sued a patronymic
                          > names like, Tjerk Jans (Jan'son'). Their first name usually came from
                          their
                          > mother's father. There is more to the tradition than what I explained
                          here.
                          > Even when families did use a formal surname, they contiued to use this
                          > tradition. For example, my grandfather was Jacob Jans de Hoog, his father
                          was
                          > Jan Tjerks de Hoog, and his mother's father was Jacob Hoeksma.
                          >
                          > In my experience (I may be wrong) a larger number of towns people used
                          Dutch
                          > surnames prior to 1811. Can anyone comment?
                          >
                          > Frisian names ending with -sma, -ma, -inga, -inia (really an -inga), -da
                          are
                          > patronymic. Although there are exceptions, non-patronymic -sma and -ma
                          names
                          > likes my gr-grandmother's maiden name Hoeksma. Names ending with -stra,
                          are
                          > origin names (I think -na is an origin ending too). If you would like,
                          send
                          > me a list of your Frisian surnames and I can probably tell what most of
                          them
                          > mean.
                          >
                          > Matthias Teichert
                          > Minneapolis, MN
                          > MCTeichert@...

                          Hello Matthias
                          I am going to take you up on your offer of a description of one of my
                          Frisian surnames.
                          My nephew and I are searching for his "Roots" and are interested in his
                          surname, POSTUMA.
                          We have seen variations, Posthumus, Postma, etc. and do not know if these
                          are connected.
                          So, please, if you have an idea of the meaning of his surname, put us out of
                          our misery!
                          Best regards, Jim van Sluys and Greg Postuma. Thanks from "Down Under" Cold
                          Australia!
                        • Yntze van der Honing
                          Meaning of POSTMA, POSTHUMUS, POSTHUMA, etc. This surname literally means after one s death , generally referring to a child whose father had already passed
                          Message 12 of 20 , Jul 10, 2000
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Meaning of POSTMA, POSTHUMUS, POSTHUMA, etc.

                            This surname literally means "after one's death", generally referring to a
                            child whose father had already passed away when the child was born. The
                            name has no relationship with the mail service! There are dozens, if not
                            hundreds, of families by this name throughout the Netherlands and they are
                            not all related to one another.

                            Regards,

                            Yntze van der Honing

                            At 08:57 AM 7/10/00 +1000, you wrote:

                            >----- Original Message -----
                            >From: <MCTeichert@...>
                            >To: <Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com>
                            >Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2000 2:40 AM
                            >Subject: Re: [Friesland-genealogy] napoleonic decree of 1811
                            >
                            >
                            > > Dianne,
                            > >
                            > > Nobility and wealthy farmers did use a surname and often towns folk too.
                            >With
                            > > each century, up to 1811, more and more people used surnames. Most common
                            > > people didn't have surnames. Traditionally Frisians have sued a patronymic
                            > > names like, Tjerk Jans (Jan'son'). Their first name usually came from
                            >their
                            > > mother's father. There is more to the tradition than what I explained
                            >here.
                            > > Even when families did use a formal surname, they contiued to use this
                            > > tradition. For example, my grandfather was Jacob Jans de Hoog, his father
                            >was
                            > > Jan Tjerks de Hoog, and his mother's father was Jacob Hoeksma.
                            > >
                            > > In my experience (I may be wrong) a larger number of towns people used
                            >Dutch
                            > > surnames prior to 1811. Can anyone comment?
                            > >
                            > > Frisian names ending with -sma, -ma, -inga, -inia (really an -inga), -da
                            >are
                            > > patronymic. Although there are exceptions, non-patronymic -sma and -ma
                            >names
                            > > likes my gr-grandmother's maiden name Hoeksma. Names ending with -stra,
                            >are
                            > > origin names (I think -na is an origin ending too). If you would like,
                            >send
                            > > me a list of your Frisian surnames and I can probably tell what most of
                            >them
                            > > mean.
                            > >
                            > > Matthias Teichert
                            > > Minneapolis, MN
                            > > MCTeichert@...
                            >
                            >Hello Matthias
                            > I am going to take you up on your offer of a description of one of my
                            >Frisian surnames.
                            >My nephew and I are searching for his "Roots" and are interested in his
                            >surname, POSTUMA.
                            >We have seen variations, Posthumus, Postma, etc. and do not know if these
                            >are connected.
                            >So, please, if you have an idea of the meaning of his surname, put us out of
                            >our misery!
                            >Best regards, Jim van Sluys and Greg Postuma. Thanks from "Down Under" Cold
                            >Australia!
                            >
                            >
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                          • andr.mehlsen laustsen
                            Hello all Frisians (especially Hans, Rinske, and Siebrigje)! The custom mentioned for giving names (at least) has been dominant in peasant families all over
                            Message 13 of 20 , Jul 10, 2000
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                              Hello all Frisians (especially Hans, Rinske, and Siebrigje)!
                              The custom mentioned for giving names (at least) has been dominant in
                              peasant families all over Western Jutland; e.g. I was in 1928 given the
                              names of my paternal grandfather: Andreas Mehlsen Laustsen. The Mehlsen (or
                              Melsen or Meelsen)- name is supposed to be either Dutch or Frisian - it goes
                              back to the early 18th century at least. In many Danish families (also in my
                              own) we find the name Friis, a fact that suggests Frisian ancestors.
                              I should like some comments on these assumptions.
                              Kind regards
                              A.Mehlsen L.


                              >From: siebrigje van der wal <S.vanderwal@...>
                              >Reply-To: Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com
                              >To: Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com
                              >Subject: Re: [Friesland-genealogy] napoleonic decree of 1811
                              >Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2000 15:14:41 +0200
                              >
                              >Hans & Rinske Van Brederode wrote:
                              >
                              > > Hello Matthias.
                              > > According to our Friesian family history the naming of the children went
                              >thus:
                              > > the first son was names after the father's father, the second son after
                              >the
                              > > mother's father, the first daughter after the mothers mother and the
                              >second
                              > > daughter after the father's mother. After that the parents sibling's
                              >names were
                              > > used.
                              > > Does anyone else have the same custom in the family?
                              > > Rinske van Brederode
                              > > Barrie, Ontario, Canada
                              > >
                              >
                              >Hello Rinske,
                              >
                              >We have the same custom in our family. Although there always are some
                              >exceptions.
                              >As the first girl I was named after the 'wrong' grandmother on father side,
                              >because
                              >my
                              >mother liked her better. Also an uncle, Jan, is named after a deceased
                              >brother of my
                              >
                              >grandmother. Otherwise he would have had the name Bauke. There were already
                              >a lot
                              >of Bauke's in the family and my father was already named Bokke.
                              >I like that Frysian names are still used. (father: Bokke, mother: Ytje,
                              >brothers:
                              >Anske and Auke,
                              >me: Siebrigje)
                              >
                              >Greetings Siebrigje
                              >
                              >
                              >------------------------------------------------------------------------
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                              >Search over 550 million names and trace your family tree today. Click here:
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                              >
                              >Genealogy yn Frysl�n: http://members1.chello.nl/~a.stienstra/frgen/
                              >of: http://go.to/frgen .
                              >

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                            • andr.mehlsen laustsen
                              Dear Gerda! The custom to name a child after a deceased sibling is common in Western Jutch families too. We seem to have much in common near the North Sea
                              Message 14 of 20 , Jul 10, 2000
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                                Dear Gerda!
                                The custom to name a child after a deceased sibling is common in Western
                                Jutch families too.
                                We seem to have much in common near the North Sea
                                Regards
                                A. Mehlsen L.


                                >From: "Gerda" <gpieterse@...>
                                >Reply-To: Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com
                                >To: <Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com>
                                >Subject: Re: [Friesland-genealogy] napoleonic decree of 1811
                                >Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2000 11:45:47 +0200
                                >
                                >Dear Rinske
                                >
                                >In our family the custom is also followed, but with exceptions. My
                                >great grandfather married twice, his first wife died with childbirth,
                                >but the child survived and was named Jetske, after her mother. When gr
                                >grandfather married again, his first two daughters were named after
                                >the maternal and paternal grandmothers respectively, but then the
                                >child from the first marriage died at age seven, and the next daughter
                                >was named after her. This Jetske was a full sister sister of my
                                >grandmother Maaike. When my grandmother married her sister Jetske had
                                >also passed away, as had the paternal grandmother, so the paternal
                                >grandmother was named first, then the sister, and after those the
                                >maternal grandmother who was still alive at the time.
                                >
                                >My grandmother always went to great lengths to explain that the naming
                                >protocol was reversed, and who was named after whom in the family. I
                                >have heard that this is particularly true of the "Doopsgezinden",
                                >which this family was, but haven't had this explained to me yet.
                                >
                                >In other families I have found that pre-deceased children are also
                                >renamed several times. The ten Brink's had three sons named Johannes
                                >(none survived the first year)
                                >
                                >Regards
                                >
                                >Gerda
                                >
                                >.
                                >
                                >----- Original Message -----
                                >From: "Hans & Rinske Van Brederode" <van.brederode@...>
                                >To: <Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com>
                                >Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2000 2:13 AM
                                >Subject: Re: [Friesland-genealogy] napoleonic decree of 1811
                                >
                                >
                                > > Hello Matthias.
                                > > According to our Friesian family history the naming of the children
                                >went thus:
                                > > the first son was names after the father's father, the second son
                                >after the
                                > > mother's father, the first daughter after the mothers mother and the
                                >second
                                > > daughter after the father's mother. After that the parents
                                >sibling's names were
                                > > used.
                                > > Does anyone else have the same custom in the family?
                                > > Rinske van Brederode
                                > > Barrie, Ontario, Canada
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > MCTeichert@... wrote:
                                > >
                                > > > Dianne,
                                > > >
                                > > > Nobility and wealthy farmers did use a surname and often towns
                                >folk too. With
                                > > > each century, up to 1811, more and more people used surnames. Most
                                >common
                                > > > people didn't have surnames. Traditionally Frisians have sued a
                                >patronymic
                                > > > names like, Tjerk Jans (Jan'son'). Their first name usually came
                                >from their
                                > > > mother's father. There is more to the tradition than what I
                                >explained here.
                                > > > Even when families did use a formal surname, they contiued to use
                                >this
                                > > > tradition. For example, my grandfather was Jacob Jans de Hoog, his
                                >father was
                                > > > Jan Tjerks de Hoog, and his mother's father was Jacob Hoeksma.
                                > > >
                                > > > In my experience (I may be wrong) a larger number of towns people
                                >used Dutch
                                > > > surnames prior to 1811. Can anyone comment?
                                > > >
                                > > > Frisian names ending with -sma, -ma, -inga, -inia (really
                                >an -inga), -da are
                                > > > patronymic. Although there are exceptions, non-patronymic -sma
                                >and -ma names
                                > > > likes my gr-grandmother's maiden name Hoeksma. Names ending
                                >with -stra, are
                                > > > origin names (I think -na is an origin ending too). If you would
                                >like, send
                                > > > me a list of your Frisian surnames and I can probably tell what
                                >most of them
                                > > > mean.
                                > > >
                                > > > Matthias Teichert
                                > > > Minneapolis, MN
                                > > > MCTeichert@...
                                > > >
                                > >
                                > > --------------------------------------------------------------------
                                >----
                                > > > Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and find your ancestors
                                >now.
                                > > > Search over 550 million names and trace your family tree today.
                                >Click here:
                                > > > http://click.egroups.com/1/6254/12/_/567109/_/962988065/
                                > >
                                > > --------------------------------------------------------------------
                                >----
                                > > >
                                > > > Genealogy yn Frysl�n:
                                >http://members1.chello.nl/~a.stienstra/frgen/
                                > > > of: http://go.to/frgen .
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > --------------------------------------------------------------------
                                >----
                                > > Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and find your ancestors
                                >now.
                                > > Search over 550 million names and trace your family tree today.
                                >Click here:
                                > > http://click.egroups.com/1/6254/12/_/567109/_/963015303/
                                > > --------------------------------------------------------------------
                                >----
                                > >
                                > > Genealogy yn Frysl�n: http://members1.chello.nl/~a.stienstra/frgen/
                                > > of: http://go.to/frgen .
                                > >
                                >
                                >
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                                >Search over 550 million names and trace your family tree today. Click here:
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                                >of: http://go.to/frgen .
                                >

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                              • Gerda
                                Hi Andreas, The Frisians did indeed inhabit a vast part of Scandinavia, particularly Denmark, much of the Lowlands and parts of Gr Brittain. The small regions
                                Message 15 of 20 , Jul 10, 2000
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                                  Hi Andreas,

                                  The Frisians did indeed inhabit a vast part of Scandinavia,
                                  particularly Denmark, much of the Lowlands and parts of Gr Brittain.
                                  The small regions that remain today, and are artificially divided
                                  between countries, are just a fraction of their former sphere of
                                  influence.

                                  I always wonder if there is a relationship between some Frisian names
                                  and French names. The names Ytjen and Ettienne or Sake and Jacques
                                  spring to mind immediately, but I have noticed more.

                                  What I would also like to know is why the name "de Vries",
                                  understandably prevalent in Friesland and a popular choice in 1811, is
                                  also prevalent in the rest of the Netherlands as well as in the Dutch
                                  Jewish community? Were these names also chosen during Napoleon's rule,
                                  or did they come through from a much earlier age?

                                  Regards, met vriendelijke groet

                                  Gerda




                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  From: "andr.mehlsen laustsen" <aml28@...>
                                  To: <Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com>
                                  Sent: Monday, July 10, 2000 9:40 PM
                                  Subject: Re: [Friesland-genealogy] napoleonic decree of 1811


                                  > Dear Gerda!
                                  > The custom to name a child after a deceased sibling is common in
                                  Western
                                  > Jutch families too.
                                  > We seem to have much in common near the North Sea
                                  > Regards
                                  > A. Mehlsen L.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > >From: "Gerda" <gpieterse@...>
                                  > >Reply-To: Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com
                                  > >To: <Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com>
                                  > >Subject: Re: [Friesland-genealogy] napoleonic decree of 1811
                                  > >Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2000 11:45:47 +0200
                                  > >
                                  > >Dear Rinske
                                  > >
                                  > >In our family the custom is also followed, but with exceptions. My
                                  > >great grandfather married twice, his first wife died with
                                  childbirth,
                                  > >but the child survived and was named Jetske, after her mother. When
                                  gr
                                  > >grandfather married again, his first two daughters were named after
                                  > >the maternal and paternal grandmothers respectively, but then the
                                  > >child from the first marriage died at age seven, and the next
                                  daughter
                                  > >was named after her. This Jetske was a full sister sister of my
                                  > >grandmother Maaike. When my grandmother married her sister Jetske
                                  had
                                  > >also passed away, as had the paternal grandmother, so the paternal
                                  > >grandmother was named first, then the sister, and after those the
                                  > >maternal grandmother who was still alive at the time.
                                  > >
                                  > >My grandmother always went to great lengths to explain that the
                                  naming
                                  > >protocol was reversed, and who was named after whom in the family.
                                  I
                                  > >have heard that this is particularly true of the "Doopsgezinden",
                                  > >which this family was, but haven't had this explained to me yet.
                                  > >
                                  > >In other families I have found that pre-deceased children are also
                                  > >renamed several times. The ten Brink's had three sons named
                                  Johannes
                                  > >(none survived the first year)
                                  > >
                                  > >Regards
                                  > >
                                  > >Gerda
                                  > >
                                  > >.
                                  > >
                                  > >----- Original Message -----
                                  > >From: "Hans & Rinske Van Brederode" <van.brederode@...>
                                  > >To: <Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com>
                                  > >Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2000 2:13 AM
                                  > >Subject: Re: [Friesland-genealogy] napoleonic decree of 1811
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > > Hello Matthias.
                                  > > > According to our Friesian family history the naming of the
                                  children
                                  > >went thus:
                                  > > > the first son was names after the father's father, the second
                                  son
                                  > >after the
                                  > > > mother's father, the first daughter after the mothers mother and
                                  the
                                  > >second
                                  > > > daughter after the father's mother. After that the parents
                                  > >sibling's names were
                                  > > > used.
                                  > > > Does anyone else have the same custom in the family?
                                  > > > Rinske van Brederode
                                  > > > Barrie, Ontario, Canada
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > MCTeichert@... wrote:
                                  > > >
                                  > > > > Dianne,
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Nobility and wealthy farmers did use a surname and often towns
                                  > >folk too. With
                                  > > > > each century, up to 1811, more and more people used surnames.
                                  Most
                                  > >common
                                  > > > > people didn't have surnames. Traditionally Frisians have sued
                                  a
                                  > >patronymic
                                  > > > > names like, Tjerk Jans (Jan'son'). Their first name usually
                                  came
                                  > >from their
                                  > > > > mother's father. There is more to the tradition than what I
                                  > >explained here.
                                  > > > > Even when families did use a formal surname, they contiued to
                                  use
                                  > >this
                                  > > > > tradition. For example, my grandfather was Jacob Jans de Hoog,
                                  his
                                  > >father was
                                  > > > > Jan Tjerks de Hoog, and his mother's father was Jacob Hoeksma.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > In my experience (I may be wrong) a larger number of towns
                                  people
                                  > >used Dutch
                                  > > > > surnames prior to 1811. Can anyone comment?
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Frisian names ending with -sma, -ma, -inga, -inia (really
                                  > >an -inga), -da are
                                  > > > > patronymic. Although there are exceptions, non-patronymic -sma
                                  > >and -ma names
                                  > > > > likes my gr-grandmother's maiden name Hoeksma. Names ending
                                  > >with -stra, are
                                  > > > > origin names (I think -na is an origin ending too). If you
                                  would
                                  > >like, send
                                  > > > > me a list of your Frisian surnames and I can probably tell
                                  what
                                  > >most of them
                                  > > > > mean.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Matthias Teichert
                                  > > > > Minneapolis, MN
                                  > > > > MCTeichert@...
                                  > > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  > --------------------------------------------------------------------
                                  > >----
                                  > > > > Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and find your
                                  ancestors
                                  > >now.
                                  > > > > Search over 550 million names and trace your family tree
                                  today.
                                  > >Click here:
                                  > > > > http://click.egroups.com/1/6254/12/_/567109/_/962988065/
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  > --------------------------------------------------------------------
                                  > >----
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Genealogy yn Fryslân:
                                  > >http://members1.chello.nl/~a.stienstra/frgen/
                                  > > > > of: http://go.to/frgen .
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  > --------------------------------------------------------------------
                                  > >----
                                  > > > Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and find your
                                  ancestors
                                  > >now.
                                  > > > Search over 550 million names and trace your family tree today.
                                  > >Click here:
                                  > > > http://click.egroups.com/1/6254/12/_/567109/_/963015303/
                                  > >
                                  > --------------------------------------------------------------------
                                  > >----
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Genealogy yn Fryslân:
                                  http://members1.chello.nl/~a.stienstra/frgen/
                                  > > > of: http://go.to/frgen .
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  >---------------------------------------------------------------------
                                  ---
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                                  > >Search over 550 million names and trace your family tree today.
                                  Click here:
                                  > >http://click.egroups.com/1/6254/12/_/567109/_/963049091/
                                  >
                                  >---------------------------------------------------------------------
                                  ---
                                  > >
                                  > >Genealogy yn Fryslân: http://members1.chello.nl/~a.stienstra/frgen/
                                  > >of: http://go.to/frgen .
                                  > >
                                  >
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                                • MCTeichert@aol.com
                                  In a message dated 07/10/2000 4:48:00 PM Central Daylight Time, ... Some people used surnames (both Dutch and Frisian) prior to 1811. Some people chose a
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Jul 11, 2000
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                                    In a message dated 07/10/2000 4:48:00 PM Central Daylight Time,
                                    gpieterse@... writes:

                                    > hat I would also like to know is why the name "de Vries",
                                    > understandably prevalent in Friesland and a popular choice in 1811, is
                                    > also prevalent in the rest of the Netherlands as well as in the Dutch
                                    > Jewish community? Were these names also chosen during Napoleon's rule,
                                    > or did they come through from a much earlier age?

                                    Some people used surnames (both Dutch and Frisian) prior to 1811. Some people
                                    chose a surname in 1811. Naturally some people left Friesland and went south
                                    into Holland etc. Those that went to non-Frisian regions of the Netherlands,
                                    were usually called 'the Frisian' by locals. The newcomer probably spoke
                                    Dutch with an accent.

                                    I can't comment about the Jewish community. Perhaps a larger portion of the
                                    Jews in the NL's went to Friesland first and then moved south. I really don't
                                    know.

                                    Matthias Teichert

                                    "Ball ist rund. Spiel dauert neunzig Minuten. Soviel ist schon mal klar.
                                    Alles andere ist Theorie. Und Ab!" - Schuster, Lola Rennt.
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