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Re: [Friesland-genealogy] napoleonic decree of 1811

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  • MCTeichert@aol.com
    Dianne, Nobility and wealthy farmers did use a surname and often towns folk too. With each century, up to 1811, more and more people used surnames. Most common
    Message 1 of 20 , Jul 7, 2000
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      Dianne,

      Nobility and wealthy farmers did use a surname and often towns folk too. With
      each century, up to 1811, more and more people used surnames. Most common
      people didn't have surnames. Traditionally Frisians have sued a patronymic
      names like, Tjerk Jans (Jan'son'). Their first name usually came from their
      mother's father. There is more to the tradition than what I explained here.
      Even when families did use a formal surname, they contiued to use this
      tradition. For example, my grandfather was Jacob Jans de Hoog, his father was
      Jan Tjerks de Hoog, and his mother's father was Jacob Hoeksma.

      In my experience (I may be wrong) a larger number of towns people used Dutch
      surnames prior to 1811. Can anyone comment?

      Frisian names ending with -sma, -ma, -inga, -inia (really an -inga), -da are
      patronymic. Although there are exceptions, non-patronymic -sma and -ma names
      likes my gr-grandmother's maiden name Hoeksma. Names ending with -stra, are
      origin names (I think -na is an origin ending too). If you would like, send
      me a list of your Frisian surnames and I can probably tell what most of them
      mean.

      Matthias Teichert
      Minneapolis, MN
      MCTeichert@...
    • Dianne.W.Hart@orst.edu
      Matthias, My maiden name is Walta. Although the name pops up in history books referring to a period around 1500 and some mummies in Wiewerd are called Waltas
      Message 2 of 20 , Jul 7, 2000
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        Matthias,

        My maiden name is Walta. Although the name pops up in history books referring to
        a period around 1500 and some mummies in Wiewerd are called Waltas and one can
        see the name on the streets in Tjerkwerd, the name apparently was not in use
        prior to 1811 according to a genealogist. That makes me wonder if someone simply
        applied the name Walta to people/soldiers/mummies/streets AFTER 1811.

        Thank you for your prompt response!

        Dianne

        -----Original Message-----
        From: MCTeichert@... [mailto:MCTeichert@...]
        Sent: Friday, July 07, 2000 9:40 AM
        To: Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com
        Subject: Re: [Friesland-genealogy] napoleonic decree of 1811


        Dianne,

        Nobility and wealthy farmers did use a surname and often towns folk too. With
        each century, up to 1811, more and more people used surnames. Most common
        people didn't have surnames. Traditionally Frisians have sued a patronymic
        names like, Tjerk Jans (Jan'son'). Their first name usually came from their
        mother's father. There is more to the tradition than what I explained here.
        Even when families did use a formal surname, they contiued to use this
        tradition. For example, my grandfather was Jacob Jans de Hoog, his father was
        Jan Tjerks de Hoog, and his mother's father was Jacob Hoeksma.

        In my experience (I may be wrong) a larger number of towns people used Dutch
        surnames prior to 1811. Can anyone comment?

        Frisian names ending with -sma, -ma, -inga, -inia (really an -inga), -da are
        patronymic. Although there are exceptions, non-patronymic -sma and -ma names
        likes my gr-grandmother's maiden name Hoeksma. Names ending with -stra, are
        origin names (I think -na is an origin ending too). If you would like, send
        me a list of your Frisian surnames and I can probably tell what most of them
        mean.

        Matthias Teichert
        Minneapolis, MN
        MCTeichert@...



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      • MCTeichert@aol.com
        In a message dated 07/07/2000 12:06:11 PM Central Daylight Time, ... It sounds like prior to 1811 your family didn t use the name Walta. Correct? Not uncomon
        Message 3 of 20 , Jul 7, 2000
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          In a message dated 07/07/2000 12:06:11 PM Central Daylight Time,
          Dianne.W.Hart@... writes:

          > Walta

          It sounds like prior to 1811 your family didn't use the name Walta. Correct?
          Not uncomon at all. Unfortunately this is one of the surnames I don't what it
          means. However there were families that used the surname Walta (sometimes van
          Walta) prior to this time, a few are in my family's tree (circa 1400s). Your
          family for whatever reason decided on Walta circa 1811. Perhaps some of the
          Frisian know what Walta means? Origin name? Patronym?

          Have a nice weekend,
          Matthias Teichert
        • Bram Sonneveld
          Dianne, According to the book De Nederlandsche Geslachtsnamen (The Dutch surnames), by J. Winkler, the book is from 1885, but still the best in this field, the
          Message 4 of 20 , Jul 7, 2000
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            Dianne,

            According to the book De Nederlandsche Geslachtsnamen (The Dutch surnames),
            by J. Winkler, the book is from 1885, but still the best in this field, the
            name Walta may either by derived from the word "woud", which means 'wood',
            the Frisian word for it is ';wald' or 'walt', so Walta means 'from the
            wood', the second possibility is that the name comes from the mensname
            'Walte' or 'Woldo' and then it is a patronimicum.
            Bram Sonneveld
            -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
            Van: Dianne.W.Hart@... <Dianne.W.Hart@...>
            Aan: Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com <Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com>
            Datum: vrijdag 7 juli 2000 19:06
            Onderwerp: RE: [Friesland-genealogy] napoleonic decree of 1811


            >Matthias,
            >
            >My maiden name is Walta. Although the name pops up in history books
            referring to
            >a period around 1500 and some mummies in Wiewerd are called Waltas and one
            can
            >see the name on the streets in Tjerkwerd, the name apparently was not in
            use
            >prior to 1811 according to a genealogist. That makes me wonder if someone
            simply
            >applied the name Walta to people/soldiers/mummies/streets AFTER 1811.
            >
            >Thank you for your prompt response!
            >
            >Dianne
            >
            >-----Original Message-----
            >From: MCTeichert@... [mailto:MCTeichert@...]
            >Sent: Friday, July 07, 2000 9:40 AM
            >To: Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com
            >Subject: Re: [Friesland-genealogy] napoleonic decree of 1811
            >
            >
            >Dianne,
            >
            >Nobility and wealthy farmers did use a surname and often towns folk too.
            With
            >each century, up to 1811, more and more people used surnames. Most common
            >people didn't have surnames. Traditionally Frisians have sued a patronymic
            >names like, Tjerk Jans (Jan'son'). Their first name usually came from their
            >mother's father. There is more to the tradition than what I explained here.
            >Even when families did use a formal surname, they contiued to use this
            >tradition. For example, my grandfather was Jacob Jans de Hoog, his father
            was
            >Jan Tjerks de Hoog, and his mother's father was Jacob Hoeksma.
            >
            >In my experience (I may be wrong) a larger number of towns people used
            Dutch
            >surnames prior to 1811. Can anyone comment?
            >
            >Frisian names ending with -sma, -ma, -inga, -inia (really an -inga), -da
            are
            >patronymic. Although there are exceptions, non-patronymic -sma and -ma
            names
            >likes my gr-grandmother's maiden name Hoeksma. Names ending with -stra, are
            >origin names (I think -na is an origin ending too). If you would like, send
            >me a list of your Frisian surnames and I can probably tell what most of
            them
            >mean.
            >
            >Matthias Teichert
            >Minneapolis, MN
            >MCTeichert@...
            >
            >
            >
            >------------------------------------------------------------------------
            >Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and find your ancestors now.
            >Search over 550 million names and trace your family tree today. Click here:
            >http://click.egroups.com/1/6254/12/_/567109/_/962988065/
            >------------------------------------------------------------------------
            >
            >Genealogy yn Fryslân: http://members1.chello.nl/~a.stienstra/frgen/
            >of: http://go.to/frgen .
            >
            >------------------------------------------------------------------------
            >Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and find your ancestors now.
            >Search over 550 million names and trace your family tree today. Click here:
            >http://click.egroups.com/1/6254/12/_/567109/_/962989407/
            >------------------------------------------------------------------------
            >
            >Genealogy yn Fryslân: http://members1.chello.nl/~a.stienstra/frgen/
            >of: http://go.to/frgen .
            >
          • Hans & Rinske Van Brederode
            Hello Matthias. According to our Friesian family history the naming of the children went thus: the first son was names after the father s father, the second
            Message 5 of 20 , Jul 7, 2000
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              Hello Matthias.
              According to our Friesian family history the naming of the children went thus:
              the first son was names after the father's father, the second son after the
              mother's father, the first daughter after the mothers mother and the second
              daughter after the father's mother. After that the parents sibling's names were
              used.
              Does anyone else have the same custom in the family?
              Rinske van Brederode
              Barrie, Ontario, Canada


              MCTeichert@... wrote:

              > Dianne,
              >
              > Nobility and wealthy farmers did use a surname and often towns folk too. With
              > each century, up to 1811, more and more people used surnames. Most common
              > people didn't have surnames. Traditionally Frisians have sued a patronymic
              > names like, Tjerk Jans (Jan'son'). Their first name usually came from their
              > mother's father. There is more to the tradition than what I explained here.
              > Even when families did use a formal surname, they contiued to use this
              > tradition. For example, my grandfather was Jacob Jans de Hoog, his father was
              > Jan Tjerks de Hoog, and his mother's father was Jacob Hoeksma.
              >
              > In my experience (I may be wrong) a larger number of towns people used Dutch
              > surnames prior to 1811. Can anyone comment?
              >
              > Frisian names ending with -sma, -ma, -inga, -inia (really an -inga), -da are
              > patronymic. Although there are exceptions, non-patronymic -sma and -ma names
              > likes my gr-grandmother's maiden name Hoeksma. Names ending with -stra, are
              > origin names (I think -na is an origin ending too). If you would like, send
              > me a list of your Frisian surnames and I can probably tell what most of them
              > mean.
              >
              > Matthias Teichert
              > Minneapolis, MN
              > MCTeichert@...
              >
              > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
              > Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and find your ancestors now.
              > Search over 550 million names and trace your family tree today. Click here:
              > http://click.egroups.com/1/6254/12/_/567109/_/962988065/
              > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
              >
              > Genealogy yn Fryslân: http://members1.chello.nl/~a.stienstra/frgen/
              > of: http://go.to/frgen .
            • H. Kuiphof
              Wil je zo vriendelijk zijn ook even na te gaan of er een Kuiphof of een Kuyphoff in het genoemde boek staan ? Bij voorbaat hartelijk dank Vriendelijke groeten
              Message 6 of 20 , Jul 8, 2000
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                Wil je zo vriendelijk zijn ook even na te gaan of er een Kuiphof of een
                Kuyphoff in het genoemde boek staan ? Bij voorbaat hartelijk dank
                Vriendelijke groeten / kindly regards
                H. Kuiphof, Holland

                -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
                Van: Bram Sonneveld <bso@...>
                Aan: Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com <Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com>
                Datum: vrijdag 7 juli 2000 21:16
                Onderwerp: Re: [Friesland-genealogy] napoleonic decree of 1811


                >Dianne,
                >
                >According to the book De Nederlandsche Geslachtsnamen (The Dutch surnames),
                >by J. Winkler, the book is from 1885, but still the best in this field, the
                >name Walta may either by derived from the word "woud", which means 'wood',
                >the Frisian word for it is ';wald' or 'walt', so Walta means 'from the
                >wood', the second possibility is that the name comes from the mensname
                >'Walte' or 'Woldo' and then it is a patronimicum.
                >Bram Sonneveld
                >-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
                >Van: Dianne.W.Hart@... <Dianne.W.Hart@...>
                >Aan: Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com <Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com>
                >Datum: vrijdag 7 juli 2000 19:06
                >Onderwerp: RE: [Friesland-genealogy] napoleonic decree of 1811
                >
                >
                >>Matthias,
                >>
                >>My maiden name is Walta. Although the name pops up in history books
                >referring to
                >>a period around 1500 and some mummies in Wiewerd are called Waltas and one
                >can
                >>see the name on the streets in Tjerkwerd, the name apparently was not in
                >use
                >>prior to 1811 according to a genealogist. That makes me wonder if someone
                >simply
                >>applied the name Walta to people/soldiers/mummies/streets AFTER 1811.
                >>
                >>Thank you for your prompt response!
                >>
                >>Dianne
                >>
                >>-----Original Message-----
                >>From: MCTeichert@... [mailto:MCTeichert@...]
                >>Sent: Friday, July 07, 2000 9:40 AM
                >>To: Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com
                >>Subject: Re: [Friesland-genealogy] napoleonic decree of 1811
                >>
                >>
                >>Dianne,
                >>
                >>Nobility and wealthy farmers did use a surname and often towns folk too.
                >With
                >>each century, up to 1811, more and more people used surnames. Most common
                >>people didn't have surnames. Traditionally Frisians have sued a patronymic
                >>names like, Tjerk Jans (Jan'son'). Their first name usually came from
                their
                >>mother's father. There is more to the tradition than what I explained
                here.
                >>Even when families did use a formal surname, they contiued to use this
                >>tradition. For example, my grandfather was Jacob Jans de Hoog, his father
                >was
                >>Jan Tjerks de Hoog, and his mother's father was Jacob Hoeksma.
                >>
                >>In my experience (I may be wrong) a larger number of towns people used
                >Dutch
                >>surnames prior to 1811. Can anyone comment?
                >>
                >>Frisian names ending with -sma, -ma, -inga, -inia (really an -inga), -da
                >are
                >>patronymic. Although there are exceptions, non-patronymic -sma and -ma
                >names
                >>likes my gr-grandmother's maiden name Hoeksma. Names ending with -stra,
                are
                >>origin names (I think -na is an origin ending too). If you would like,
                send
                >>me a list of your Frisian surnames and I can probably tell what most of
                >them
                >>mean.
                >>
                >>Matthias Teichert
                >>Minneapolis, MN
                >>MCTeichert@...
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>------------------------------------------------------------------------
                >>Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and find your ancestors now.
                >>Search over 550 million names and trace your family tree today. Click
                here:
                >>http://click.egroups.com/1/6254/12/_/567109/_/962988065/
                >>------------------------------------------------------------------------
                >>
                >>Genealogy yn Fryslân: http://members1.chello.nl/~a.stienstra/frgen/
                >>of: http://go.to/frgen .
                >>
                >>------------------------------------------------------------------------
                >>Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and find your ancestors now.
                >>Search over 550 million names and trace your family tree today. Click
                here:
                >>http://click.egroups.com/1/6254/12/_/567109/_/962989407/
                >>------------------------------------------------------------------------
                >>
                >>Genealogy yn Fryslân: http://members1.chello.nl/~a.stienstra/frgen/
                >>of: http://go.to/frgen .
                >>
                >
                >
                >------------------------------------------------------------------------
                >Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and find your ancestors now.
                >Search over 550 million names and trace your family tree today. Click here:
                >http://click.egroups.com/1/6254/12/_/567109/_/962997394/
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                >
                >Genealogy yn Fryslân: http://members1.chello.nl/~a.stienstra/frgen/
                >of: http://go.to/frgen .
                >
              • Gerda
                Dear Rinske In our family the custom is also followed, but with exceptions. My great grandfather married twice, his first wife died with childbirth, but the
                Message 7 of 20 , Jul 8, 2000
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                  Dear Rinske

                  In our family the custom is also followed, but with exceptions. My
                  great grandfather married twice, his first wife died with childbirth,
                  but the child survived and was named Jetske, after her mother. When gr
                  grandfather married again, his first two daughters were named after
                  the maternal and paternal grandmothers respectively, but then the
                  child from the first marriage died at age seven, and the next daughter
                  was named after her. This Jetske was a full sister sister of my
                  grandmother Maaike. When my grandmother married her sister Jetske had
                  also passed away, as had the paternal grandmother, so the paternal
                  grandmother was named first, then the sister, and after those the
                  maternal grandmother who was still alive at the time.

                  My grandmother always went to great lengths to explain that the naming
                  protocol was reversed, and who was named after whom in the family. I
                  have heard that this is particularly true of the "Doopsgezinden",
                  which this family was, but haven't had this explained to me yet.

                  In other families I have found that pre-deceased children are also
                  renamed several times. The ten Brink's had three sons named Johannes
                  (none survived the first year)

                  Regards

                  Gerda

                  .

                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "Hans & Rinske Van Brederode" <van.brederode@...>
                  To: <Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com>
                  Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2000 2:13 AM
                  Subject: Re: [Friesland-genealogy] napoleonic decree of 1811


                  > Hello Matthias.
                  > According to our Friesian family history the naming of the children
                  went thus:
                  > the first son was names after the father's father, the second son
                  after the
                  > mother's father, the first daughter after the mothers mother and the
                  second
                  > daughter after the father's mother. After that the parents
                  sibling's names were
                  > used.
                  > Does anyone else have the same custom in the family?
                  > Rinske van Brederode
                  > Barrie, Ontario, Canada
                  >
                  >
                  > MCTeichert@... wrote:
                  >
                  > > Dianne,
                  > >
                  > > Nobility and wealthy farmers did use a surname and often towns
                  folk too. With
                  > > each century, up to 1811, more and more people used surnames. Most
                  common
                  > > people didn't have surnames. Traditionally Frisians have sued a
                  patronymic
                  > > names like, Tjerk Jans (Jan'son'). Their first name usually came
                  from their
                  > > mother's father. There is more to the tradition than what I
                  explained here.
                  > > Even when families did use a formal surname, they contiued to use
                  this
                  > > tradition. For example, my grandfather was Jacob Jans de Hoog, his
                  father was
                  > > Jan Tjerks de Hoog, and his mother's father was Jacob Hoeksma.
                  > >
                  > > In my experience (I may be wrong) a larger number of towns people
                  used Dutch
                  > > surnames prior to 1811. Can anyone comment?
                  > >
                  > > Frisian names ending with -sma, -ma, -inga, -inia (really
                  an -inga), -da are
                  > > patronymic. Although there are exceptions, non-patronymic -sma
                  and -ma names
                  > > likes my gr-grandmother's maiden name Hoeksma. Names ending
                  with -stra, are
                  > > origin names (I think -na is an origin ending too). If you would
                  like, send
                  > > me a list of your Frisian surnames and I can probably tell what
                  most of them
                  > > mean.
                  > >
                  > > Matthias Teichert
                  > > Minneapolis, MN
                  > > MCTeichert@...
                  > >
                  >
                  > --------------------------------------------------------------------
                  ----
                  > > Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and find your ancestors
                  now.
                  > > Search over 550 million names and trace your family tree today.
                  Click here:
                  > > http://click.egroups.com/1/6254/12/_/567109/_/962988065/
                  >
                  > --------------------------------------------------------------------
                  ----
                  > >
                  > > Genealogy yn Fryslân:
                  http://members1.chello.nl/~a.stienstra/frgen/
                  > > of: http://go.to/frgen .
                  >
                  >
                  > --------------------------------------------------------------------
                  ----
                  > Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and find your ancestors
                  now.
                  > Search over 550 million names and trace your family tree today.
                  Click here:
                  > http://click.egroups.com/1/6254/12/_/567109/_/963015303/
                  > --------------------------------------------------------------------
                  ----
                  >
                  > Genealogy yn Fryslân: http://members1.chello.nl/~a.stienstra/frgen/
                  > of: http://go.to/frgen .
                  >
                • Gerda
                  Beste Bram Mag ik vragen of de Katsma/Catsma ook in het boek staat? De familie had de naam van ouds bij registratie in 1811. Bijvoorbaat dank Gerda ... From:
                  Message 8 of 20 , Jul 8, 2000
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                    Beste Bram

                    Mag ik vragen of de Katsma/Catsma ook in het boek staat? De familie
                    "had de naam van ouds" bij registratie in 1811.

                    Bijvoorbaat dank

                    Gerda


                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "Bram Sonneveld" <bso@...>
                    To: <Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com>
                    Sent: Friday, July 07, 2000 9:26 PM
                    Subject: Re: [Friesland-genealogy] napoleonic decree of 1811


                    > Dianne,
                    >
                    > According to the book De Nederlandsche Geslachtsnamen (The Dutch
                    surnames),
                    > by J. Winkler, the book is from 1885, but still the best in this
                    field, the
                    > name Walta may either by derived from the word "woud", which means
                    'wood',
                    > the Frisian word for it is ';wald' or 'walt', so Walta means 'from
                    the
                    > wood', the second possibility is that the name comes from the
                    mensname
                    > 'Walte' or 'Woldo' and then it is a patronimicum.
                    > Bram Sonneveld
                    > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
                    > Van: Dianne.W.Hart@... <Dianne.W.Hart@...>
                    > Aan: Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com
                    <Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com>
                    > Datum: vrijdag 7 juli 2000 19:06
                    > Onderwerp: RE: [Friesland-genealogy] napoleonic decree of 1811
                    >
                    >
                    > >Matthias,
                    > >
                    > >My maiden name is Walta. Although the name pops up in history books
                    > referring to
                    > >a period around 1500 and some mummies in Wiewerd are called Waltas
                    and one
                    > can
                    > >see the name on the streets in Tjerkwerd, the name apparently was
                    not in
                    > use
                    > >prior to 1811 according to a genealogist. That makes me wonder if
                    someone
                    > simply
                    > >applied the name Walta to people/soldiers/mummies/streets AFTER
                    1811.
                    > >
                    > >Thank you for your prompt response!
                    > >
                    > >Dianne
                    > >
                    > >-----Original Message-----
                    > >From: MCTeichert@... [mailto:MCTeichert@...]
                    > >Sent: Friday, July 07, 2000 9:40 AM
                    > >To: Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com
                    > >Subject: Re: [Friesland-genealogy] napoleonic decree of 1811
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >Dianne,
                    > >
                    > >Nobility and wealthy farmers did use a surname and often towns folk
                    too.
                    > With
                    > >each century, up to 1811, more and more people used surnames. Most
                    common
                    > >people didn't have surnames. Traditionally Frisians have sued a
                    patronymic
                    > >names like, Tjerk Jans (Jan'son'). Their first name usually came
                    from their
                    > >mother's father. There is more to the tradition than what I
                    explained here.
                    > >Even when families did use a formal surname, they contiued to use
                    this
                    > >tradition. For example, my grandfather was Jacob Jans de Hoog, his
                    father
                    > was
                    > >Jan Tjerks de Hoog, and his mother's father was Jacob Hoeksma.
                    > >
                    > >In my experience (I may be wrong) a larger number of towns people
                    used
                    > Dutch
                    > >surnames prior to 1811. Can anyone comment?
                    > >
                    > >Frisian names ending with -sma, -ma, -inga, -inia (really
                    an -inga), -da
                    > are
                    > >patronymic. Although there are exceptions, non-patronymic -sma
                    and -ma
                    > names
                    > >likes my gr-grandmother's maiden name Hoeksma. Names ending
                    with -stra, are
                    > >origin names (I think -na is an origin ending too). If you would
                    like, send
                    > >me a list of your Frisian surnames and I can probably tell what
                    most of
                    > them
                    > >mean.
                    > >
                    > >Matthias Teichert
                    > >Minneapolis, MN
                    > >MCTeichert@...
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >---------------------------------------------------------------------
                    ---
                    > >Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and find your ancestors
                    now.
                    > >Search over 550 million names and trace your family tree today.
                    Click here:
                    > >http://click.egroups.com/1/6254/12/_/567109/_/962988065/
                    >
                    >---------------------------------------------------------------------
                    ---
                    > >
                    > >Genealogy yn Fryslân: http://members1.chello.nl/~a.stienstra/frgen/
                    > >of: http://go.to/frgen .
                    > >
                    >
                    >---------------------------------------------------------------------
                    ---
                    > >Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and find your ancestors
                    now.
                    > >Search over 550 million names and trace your family tree today.
                    Click here:
                    > >http://click.egroups.com/1/6254/12/_/567109/_/962989407/
                    >
                    >---------------------------------------------------------------------
                    ---
                    > >
                    > >Genealogy yn Fryslân: http://members1.chello.nl/~a.stienstra/frgen/

                    > >of: http://go.to/frgen .
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    > --------------------------------------------------------------------
                    ----
                    > Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and find your ancestors
                    now.
                    > Search over 550 million names and trace your family tree today.
                    Click here:
                    > http://click.egroups.com/1/6254/12/_/567109/_/962997394/
                    > --------------------------------------------------------------------
                    ----
                    >
                    > Genealogy yn Fryslân: http://members1.chello.nl/~a.stienstra/frgen/
                    > of: http://go.to/frgen .
                    >
                  • James H. DeYoung
                    Please Delete my name from all future mailings. Thank you. ... From: Gerda [mailto:gpieterse@intekom.co.za] Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2000 5:54 AM To:
                    Message 9 of 20 , Jul 8, 2000
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Please Delete my name from all future mailings. Thank you.

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: Gerda [mailto:gpieterse@...]
                      Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2000 5:54 AM
                      To: Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [Friesland-genealogy] napoleonic decree of 1811


                      Beste Bram

                      Mag ik vragen of de Katsma/Catsma ook in het boek staat? De familie
                      "had de naam van ouds" bij registratie in 1811.

                      Bijvoorbaat dank

                      Gerda


                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "Bram Sonneveld" <bso@...>
                      To: <Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com>
                      Sent: Friday, July 07, 2000 9:26 PM
                      Subject: Re: [Friesland-genealogy] napoleonic decree of 1811


                      > Dianne,
                      >
                      > According to the book De Nederlandsche Geslachtsnamen (The Dutch
                      surnames),
                      > by J. Winkler, the book is from 1885, but still the best in this
                      field, the
                      > name Walta may either by derived from the word "woud", which means
                      'wood',
                      > the Frisian word for it is ';wald' or 'walt', so Walta means 'from
                      the
                      > wood', the second possibility is that the name comes from the
                      mensname
                      > 'Walte' or 'Woldo' and then it is a patronimicum.
                      > Bram Sonneveld
                      > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
                      > Van: Dianne.W.Hart@... <Dianne.W.Hart@...>
                      > Aan: Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com
                      <Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com>
                      > Datum: vrijdag 7 juli 2000 19:06
                      > Onderwerp: RE: [Friesland-genealogy] napoleonic decree of 1811
                      >
                      >
                      > >Matthias,
                      > >
                      > >My maiden name is Walta. Although the name pops up in history books
                      > referring to
                      > >a period around 1500 and some mummies in Wiewerd are called Waltas
                      and one
                      > can
                      > >see the name on the streets in Tjerkwerd, the name apparently was
                      not in
                      > use
                      > >prior to 1811 according to a genealogist. That makes me wonder if
                      someone
                      > simply
                      > >applied the name Walta to people/soldiers/mummies/streets AFTER
                      1811.
                      > >
                      > >Thank you for your prompt response!
                      > >
                      > >Dianne
                      > >
                      > >-----Original Message-----
                      > >From: MCTeichert@... [mailto:MCTeichert@...]
                      > >Sent: Friday, July 07, 2000 9:40 AM
                      > >To: Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com
                      > >Subject: Re: [Friesland-genealogy] napoleonic decree of 1811
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >Dianne,
                      > >
                      > >Nobility and wealthy farmers did use a surname and often towns folk
                      too.
                      > With
                      > >each century, up to 1811, more and more people used surnames. Most
                      common
                      > >people didn't have surnames. Traditionally Frisians have sued a
                      patronymic
                      > >names like, Tjerk Jans (Jan'son'). Their first name usually came
                      from their
                      > >mother's father. There is more to the tradition than what I
                      explained here.
                      > >Even when families did use a formal surname, they contiued to use
                      this
                      > >tradition. For example, my grandfather was Jacob Jans de Hoog, his
                      father
                      > was
                      > >Jan Tjerks de Hoog, and his mother's father was Jacob Hoeksma.
                      > >
                      > >In my experience (I may be wrong) a larger number of towns people
                      used
                      > Dutch
                      > >surnames prior to 1811. Can anyone comment?
                      > >
                      > >Frisian names ending with -sma, -ma, -inga, -inia (really
                      an -inga), -da
                      > are
                      > >patronymic. Although there are exceptions, non-patronymic -sma
                      and -ma
                      > names
                      > >likes my gr-grandmother's maiden name Hoeksma. Names ending
                      with -stra, are
                      > >origin names (I think -na is an origin ending too). If you would
                      like, send
                      > >me a list of your Frisian surnames and I can probably tell what
                      most of
                      > them
                      > >mean.
                      > >
                      > >Matthias Teichert
                      > >Minneapolis, MN
                      > >MCTeichert@...
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      >---------------------------------------------------------------------
                      ---
                      > >Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and find your ancestors
                      now.
                      > >Search over 550 million names and trace your family tree today.
                      Click here:
                      > >http://click.egroups.com/1/6254/12/_/567109/_/962988065/
                      >
                      >---------------------------------------------------------------------
                      ---
                      > >
                      > >Genealogy yn Fryslân: http://members1.chello.nl/~a.stienstra/frgen/
                      > >of: http://go.to/frgen .
                      > >
                      >
                      >---------------------------------------------------------------------
                      ---
                      > >Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and find your ancestors
                      now.
                      > >Search over 550 million names and trace your family tree today.
                      Click here:
                      > >http://click.egroups.com/1/6254/12/_/567109/_/962989407/
                      >
                      >---------------------------------------------------------------------
                      ---
                      > >
                      > >Genealogy yn Fryslân: http://members1.chello.nl/~a.stienstra/frgen/

                      > >of: http://go.to/frgen .
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      > --------------------------------------------------------------------
                      ----
                      > Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and find your ancestors
                      now.
                      > Search over 550 million names and trace your family tree today.
                      Click here:
                      > http://click.egroups.com/1/6254/12/_/567109/_/962997394/
                      > --------------------------------------------------------------------
                      ----
                      >
                      > Genealogy yn Fryslân: http://members1.chello.nl/~a.stienstra/frgen/
                      > of: http://go.to/frgen .
                      >


                      ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                      Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and find your ancestors now.
                      Search over 550 million names and trace your family tree today. Click here:
                      http://click.egroups.com/1/6254/12/_/567109/_/963049579/
                      ------------------------------------------------------------------------

                      Genealogy yn Fryslân: http://members1.chello.nl/~a.stienstra/frgen/
                      of: http://go.to/frgen .
                    • Bram Sonneveld
                      Henk, Ik begrijp dat jij degene bent die ook in de namendatabank van het P.J. Meertens-instituut genoemd wordt, dus die informatie heb je al. In Winkler wordt
                      Message 10 of 20 , Jul 8, 2000
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Henk,
                        Ik begrijp dat jij degene bent die ook in de namendatabank van het P.J.
                        Meertens-instituut genoemd wordt, dus die informatie heb je al.
                        In Winkler wordt Kuiphof/Kuyphof(f) niet genoemd. Wel in Huizinga's,
                        Complete lijst van namen, Tirion, Baarn, z.j., aldaar onder "Hof".
                        Winkler heeft wel een stukje over namen "Met hof". Ik citeer van p. 278:
                        "Met hof: Aldershof, Ameshoff, AAttenhoven, Balkenhoven, Bomhoff, Eekhoff,
                        Eeckhoff en Eekhof, Kouwenhoven, Kruythoo, Noordhof, Nyhoff, Rauwenhoff,
                        Sijthoff, Spaenhoven, Uuldershof, Uvenhoven en het verlatynschte
                        Lindenhovius.
                        Hof, hove, have, zijn oorspronkelik de zelfde woorden, in verschillende form
                        en uitspraak."
                        En zo gaat het nog even door. Winkler had een zeer idiosyncratisch
                        taalgebruik. De "taalfouten" zijn dus van hem.
                        Mijn konklusie: Iemand die woonde in een hof (tuin, etc.) met een kuip, of
                        waar een kuiper woonde, noemde zich Kuiphof.
                        Overigens, Huizinga heeft ongeveer 150 'hof'-namen.
                        Met groet,
                        Bram Sonneveld
                        -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
                        Van: H. Kuiphof <henk.kuiphof@...>
                        Aan: Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com <Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com>
                        Datum: zaterdag 8 juli 2000 10:11
                        Onderwerp: Re: [Friesland-genealogy] napoleonic decree of 1811


                        >Wil je zo vriendelijk zijn ook even na te gaan of er een Kuiphof of een
                        >Kuyphoff in het genoemde boek staan ? Bij voorbaat hartelijk dank
                        >Vriendelijke groeten / kindly regards
                        >H. Kuiphof, Holland
                        >
                        >-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
                        >Van: Bram Sonneveld <bso@...>
                        >Aan: Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com <Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com>
                        >Datum: vrijdag 7 juli 2000 21:16
                        >Onderwerp: Re: [Friesland-genealogy] napoleonic decree of 1811
                        >
                        >
                        >>Dianne,
                        >>
                        >>According to the book De Nederlandsche Geslachtsnamen (The Dutch
                        surnames),
                        >>by J. Winkler, the book is from 1885, but still the best in this field,
                        the
                        >>name Walta may either by derived from the word "woud", which means 'wood',
                        >>the Frisian word for it is ';wald' or 'walt', so Walta means 'from the
                        >>wood', the second possibility is that the name comes from the mensname
                        >>'Walte' or 'Woldo' and then it is a patronimicum.
                        >>Bram Sonneveld
                        >>-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
                        >>Van: Dianne.W.Hart@... <Dianne.W.Hart@...>
                        >>Aan: Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com <Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com>
                        >>Datum: vrijdag 7 juli 2000 19:06
                        >>Onderwerp: RE: [Friesland-genealogy] napoleonic decree of 1811
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>>Matthias,
                        >>>
                        >>>My maiden name is Walta. Although the name pops up in history books
                        >>referring to
                        >>>a period around 1500 and some mummies in Wiewerd are called Waltas and
                        one
                        >>can
                        >>>see the name on the streets in Tjerkwerd, the name apparently was not in
                        >>use
                        >>>prior to 1811 according to a genealogist. That makes me wonder if someone
                        >>simply
                        >>>applied the name Walta to people/soldiers/mummies/streets AFTER 1811.
                        >>>
                        >>>Thank you for your prompt response!
                        >>>
                        >>>Dianne
                        >>>
                        >>>-----Original Message-----
                        >>>From: MCTeichert@... [mailto:MCTeichert@...]
                        >>>Sent: Friday, July 07, 2000 9:40 AM
                        >>>To: Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com
                        >>>Subject: Re: [Friesland-genealogy] napoleonic decree of 1811
                        >>>
                        >>>
                        >>>Dianne,
                        >>>
                        >>>Nobility and wealthy farmers did use a surname and often towns folk too.
                        >>With
                        >>>each century, up to 1811, more and more people used surnames. Most common
                        >>>people didn't have surnames. Traditionally Frisians have sued a
                        patronymic
                        >>>names like, Tjerk Jans (Jan'son'). Their first name usually came from
                        >their
                        >>>mother's father. There is more to the tradition than what I explained
                        >here.
                        >>>Even when families did use a formal surname, they contiued to use this
                        >>>tradition. For example, my grandfather was Jacob Jans de Hoog, his father
                        >>was
                        >>>Jan Tjerks de Hoog, and his mother's father was Jacob Hoeksma.
                        >>>
                        >>>In my experience (I may be wrong) a larger number of towns people used
                        >>Dutch
                        >>>surnames prior to 1811. Can anyone comment?
                        >>>
                        >>>Frisian names ending with -sma, -ma, -inga, -inia (really an -inga), -da
                        >>are
                        >>>patronymic. Although there are exceptions, non-patronymic -sma and -ma
                        >>names
                        >>>likes my gr-grandmother's maiden name Hoeksma. Names ending with -stra,
                        >are
                        >>>origin names (I think -na is an origin ending too). If you would like,
                        >send
                        >>>me a list of your Frisian surnames and I can probably tell what most of
                        >>them
                        >>>mean.
                        >>>
                        >>>Matthias Teichert
                        >>>Minneapolis, MN
                        >>>MCTeichert@...
                        >>>
                        >>>
                        >>>
                        >>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        >>>Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and find your ancestors now.
                        >>>Search over 550 million names and trace your family tree today. Click
                        >here:
                        >>>http://click.egroups.com/1/6254/12/_/567109/_/962988065/
                        >>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        >>>
                        >>>Genealogy yn Fryslân: http://members1.chello.nl/~a.stienstra/frgen/
                        >>>of: http://go.to/frgen .
                        >>>
                        >>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        >>>Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and find your ancestors now.
                        >>>Search over 550 million names and trace your family tree today. Click
                        >here:
                        >>>http://click.egroups.com/1/6254/12/_/567109/_/962989407/
                        >>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        >>>
                        >>>Genealogy yn Fryslân: http://members1.chello.nl/~a.stienstra/frgen/
                        >>>of: http://go.to/frgen .
                        >>>
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        >>Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and find your ancestors now.
                        >>Search over 550 million names and trace your family tree today. Click
                        here:
                        >>http://click.egroups.com/1/6254/12/_/567109/_/962997394/
                        >>------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        >>
                        >>Genealogy yn Fryslân: http://members1.chello.nl/~a.stienstra/frgen/
                        >>of: http://go.to/frgen .
                        >>
                        >
                        >
                        >------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        >Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and find your ancestors now.
                        >Search over 550 million names and trace your family tree today. Click here:
                        >http://click.egroups.com/1/6254/12/_/567109/_/963043757/
                        >------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        >
                        >Genealogy yn Fryslân: http://members1.chello.nl/~a.stienstra/frgen/
                        >of: http://go.to/frgen .
                        >
                      • Bram Sonneveld
                        Gerda, Ja, Katsma komt voor bij Winkler. Ik zal het stukje daarover letterlijk voor je overschrijven. Winkler was zeer erudiet, en dus erg eigenwijs, dat
                        Message 11 of 20 , Jul 8, 2000
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Gerda,

                          Ja, Katsma komt voor bij Winkler. Ik zal het stukje daarover letterlijk voor
                          je overschrijven. Winkler was zeer erudiet, en dus erg eigenwijs, dat blijkt
                          ook uit zijn spelling. Als er fouten in het onderstaande te vinden zijn, dan
                          zijn dat Winklers eigenaardigheden:
                          Blz. 390: "Catto, Katte, Kat is een oud-germaansche mansvoornaam, die ook in
                          samenstellingen, als Catuald (Katwalt) en Catumer (Katmar) voorkomt, en door
                          Förstemann in zijn Altdeutsches namenbuch tot drie verschillende
                          naamstammen, Chad, Gad en Hath, gebracht wordt. Een enkele der talryke
                          geslachtsnamen Kat en Cat, en, in den tweeden naamval als patronymikon,
                          Kats, Cats en Catz, zal zeker wel van dezen ouden mansvoornaam afstammen.
                          Zekerlik is dit het geval met de friesche patronymikale geslachtsnamen
                          Katsma en Katma, en met menigen plaatsnaam. Waarschijnlijk behoort het
                          patronymokon Caeding, dat by de Angel-Saksen voorkwam, ook wel tot dezen
                          mansnaam. Buitendien kan de geslachtsnaam Cats, Katz, behalven een
                          tweede-naamvalsform van den diernaam, of van den mansvoornaam, ook nog de
                          plaatsnaam Kats of Cats zijn, zoo als een dorp heet op het zeeusche eiland
                          Noord-Beveland. By de zeeusche maagschap Cats althans meen ik dat dit
                          zekerlik het geval is."
                          Groet,
                          Bram Sonneveld
                          -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
                          Van: Gerda <gpieterse@...>
                          Aan: Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com <Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com>
                          Datum: zaterdag 8 juli 2000 11:49
                          Onderwerp: Re: [Friesland-genealogy] napoleonic decree of 1811


                          >Beste Bram
                          >
                          >Mag ik vragen of de Katsma/Catsma ook in het boek staat? De familie
                          >"had de naam van ouds" bij registratie in 1811.
                          >
                          >Bijvoorbaat dank
                          >
                          >Gerda
                          >
                          >
                          >----- Original Message -----
                          >From: "Bram Sonneveld" <bso@...>
                          >To: <Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com>
                          >Sent: Friday, July 07, 2000 9:26 PM
                          >Subject: Re: [Friesland-genealogy] napoleonic decree of 1811
                          >
                          >
                          >> Dianne,
                          >>
                          >> According to the book De Nederlandsche Geslachtsnamen (The Dutch
                          >surnames),
                          >> by J. Winkler, the book is from 1885, but still the best in this
                          >field, the
                          >> name Walta may either by derived from the word "woud", which means
                          >'wood',
                          >> the Frisian word for it is ';wald' or 'walt', so Walta means 'from
                          >the
                          >> wood', the second possibility is that the name comes from the
                          >mensname
                          >> 'Walte' or 'Woldo' and then it is a patronimicum.
                          >> Bram Sonneveld
                          >> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
                          >> Van: Dianne.W.Hart@... <Dianne.W.Hart@...>
                          >> Aan: Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com
                          ><Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com>
                          >> Datum: vrijdag 7 juli 2000 19:06
                          >> Onderwerp: RE: [Friesland-genealogy] napoleonic decree of 1811
                          >>
                          >>
                          >> >Matthias,
                          >> >
                          >> >My maiden name is Walta. Although the name pops up in history books
                          >> referring to
                          >> >a period around 1500 and some mummies in Wiewerd are called Waltas
                          >and one
                          >> can
                          >> >see the name on the streets in Tjerkwerd, the name apparently was
                          >not in
                          >> use
                          >> >prior to 1811 according to a genealogist. That makes me wonder if
                          >someone
                          >> simply
                          >> >applied the name Walta to people/soldiers/mummies/streets AFTER
                          >1811.
                          >> >
                          >> >Thank you for your prompt response!
                          >> >
                          >> >Dianne
                          >> >
                          >> >-----Original Message-----
                          >> >From: MCTeichert@... [mailto:MCTeichert@...]
                          >> >Sent: Friday, July 07, 2000 9:40 AM
                          >> >To: Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com
                          >> >Subject: Re: [Friesland-genealogy] napoleonic decree of 1811
                          >> >
                          >> >
                          >> >Dianne,
                          >> >
                          >> >Nobility and wealthy farmers did use a surname and often towns folk
                          >too.
                          >> With
                          >> >each century, up to 1811, more and more people used surnames. Most
                          >common
                          >> >people didn't have surnames. Traditionally Frisians have sued a
                          >patronymic
                          >> >names like, Tjerk Jans (Jan'son'). Their first name usually came
                          >from their
                          >> >mother's father. There is more to the tradition than what I
                          >explained here.
                          >> >Even when families did use a formal surname, they contiued to use
                          >this
                          >> >tradition. For example, my grandfather was Jacob Jans de Hoog, his
                          >father
                          >> was
                          >> >Jan Tjerks de Hoog, and his mother's father was Jacob Hoeksma.
                          >> >
                          >> >In my experience (I may be wrong) a larger number of towns people
                          >used
                          >> Dutch
                          >> >surnames prior to 1811. Can anyone comment?
                          >> >
                          >> >Frisian names ending with -sma, -ma, -inga, -inia (really
                          >an -inga), -da
                          >> are
                          >> >patronymic. Although there are exceptions, non-patronymic -sma
                          >and -ma
                          >> names
                          >> >likes my gr-grandmother's maiden name Hoeksma. Names ending
                          >with -stra, are
                          >> >origin names (I think -na is an origin ending too). If you would
                          >like, send
                          >> >me a list of your Frisian surnames and I can probably tell what
                          >most of
                          >> them
                          >> >mean.
                          >> >
                          >> >Matthias Teichert
                          >> >Minneapolis, MN
                          >> >MCTeichert@...
                          >> >
                          >> >
                          >> >
                          >>
                          >>---------------------------------------------------------------------
                          >---
                          >> >Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and find your ancestors
                          >now.
                          >> >Search over 550 million names and trace your family tree today.
                          >Click here:
                          >> >http://click.egroups.com/1/6254/12/_/567109/_/962988065/
                          >>
                          >>---------------------------------------------------------------------
                          >---
                          >> >
                          >> >Genealogy yn Fryslân: http://members1.chello.nl/~a.stienstra/frgen/
                          >> >of: http://go.to/frgen .
                          >> >
                          >>
                          >>---------------------------------------------------------------------
                          >---
                          >> >Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and find your ancestors
                          >now.
                          >> >Search over 550 million names and trace your family tree today.
                          >Click here:
                          >> >http://click.egroups.com/1/6254/12/_/567109/_/962989407/
                          >>
                          >>---------------------------------------------------------------------
                          >---
                          >> >
                          >> >Genealogy yn Fryslân: http://members1.chello.nl/~a.stienstra/frgen/
                          >
                          >> >of: http://go.to/frgen .
                          >> >
                          >>
                          >>
                          >> --------------------------------------------------------------------
                          >----
                          >> Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and find your ancestors
                          >now.
                          >> Search over 550 million names and trace your family tree today.
                          >Click here:
                          >> http://click.egroups.com/1/6254/12/_/567109/_/962997394/
                          >> --------------------------------------------------------------------
                          >----
                          >>
                          >> Genealogy yn Fryslân: http://members1.chello.nl/~a.stienstra/frgen/
                          >> of: http://go.to/frgen .
                          >>
                          >
                          >
                          >------------------------------------------------------------------------
                          >Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and find your ancestors now.
                          >Search over 550 million names and trace your family tree today. Click here:
                          >http://click.egroups.com/1/6254/12/_/567109/_/963049579/
                          >------------------------------------------------------------------------
                          >
                          >Genealogy yn Fryslân: http://members1.chello.nl/~a.stienstra/frgen/
                          >of: http://go.to/frgen .
                          >
                        • siebrigje van der wal
                          ... Hello Rinske, We have the same custom in our family. Although there always are some exceptions. As the first girl I was named after the wrong grandmother
                          Message 12 of 20 , Jul 8, 2000
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Hans & Rinske Van Brederode wrote:

                            > Hello Matthias.
                            > According to our Friesian family history the naming of the children went thus:
                            > the first son was names after the father's father, the second son after the
                            > mother's father, the first daughter after the mothers mother and the second
                            > daughter after the father's mother. After that the parents sibling's names were
                            > used.
                            > Does anyone else have the same custom in the family?
                            > Rinske van Brederode
                            > Barrie, Ontario, Canada
                            >

                            Hello Rinske,

                            We have the same custom in our family. Although there always are some exceptions.
                            As the first girl I was named after the 'wrong' grandmother on father side, because
                            my
                            mother liked her better. Also an uncle, Jan, is named after a deceased brother of my

                            grandmother. Otherwise he would have had the name Bauke. There were already a lot
                            of Bauke's in the family and my father was already named Bokke.
                            I like that Frysian names are still used. (father: Bokke, mother: Ytje, brothers:
                            Anske and Auke,
                            me: Siebrigje)

                            Greetings Siebrigje
                          • Lieko Helmus
                            Everybody doing (Frisian)genealogy soon discovers this (unique?) patron And custom of naming children. How ever far you go back, you find this Strict
                            Message 13 of 20 , Jul 8, 2000
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                              Everybody doing (Frisian)genealogy soon discovers this (unique?) patron
                              And custom of naming children. How ever far you go back, you find this
                              Strict tradition. Which makes it so fascinating for me to go through the
                              Generations and even see your own name, like in my case, back hundreds
                              Of years ago. How about Lykele Helmigs (“my 260”), born Olterterp around
                              1701 and
                              Married Taetske Uytzes,born Beetsterzwaag 27 March 1709?
                              I am aware that I am from the generation that ended this
                              tradition/custom/patron.
                              Why? Also a result of a sort cultural revolution. Interesting thing that
                              years ago I
                              Met with a Japanese banker, with whom I shared my genealogical hobby and
                              He mentioned that exactly the same process had taken place in his country.
                              So instead of Aaltje, Lolkje, Daniella and Lieuwkje, our daughters were
                              named
                              Alice, Hester Louise, Daniella (my father-in-law Daniel, so pretty
                              close)Deborah
                              and Leontina Marjolijn.
                              If I knew then what I know now………
                              Liekele Lieuwes Helmus, Hilversum
                              PS Hope Andrys allows this sidetrack!
                              ________________________________________________

                              Liekele (Lieko) Helmus & Rinske Helmus-Deutekom
                              Siriusstraat 52, NL-1223 AP Hilversum, the Netherlands
                              31(0)35 6858 675 (+voicemail) Fax 31(0)20 8848 931(fax2pc)
                              gsm 06 28184122 (+SMS) NetMeeting (+Webcam)
                              lhelmus@...




                              [De niet-tekstgedeelten van dit bericht werden verwijderd]
                            • H. Kuiphof
                              Bedankt Bram, Ik ben toch weer een heel klein stukje verder. Ik ben al jaren op zoek naar de oorsprong van mijn naam. Ik vermoed dat deze uit Duitsland komt
                              Message 14 of 20 , Jul 9, 2000
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                                Bedankt Bram, Ik ben toch weer een heel klein stukje verder. Ik ben al jaren
                                op zoek naar de oorsprong van mijn naam. Ik vermoed dat deze uit Duitsland
                                komt maar enig houvast heb ik niet. Mijn voorvaderen waren Mennonieten en
                                die gebruikten hun achternaam niet, dat paste niet bij hun sobere
                                levensstijl. Het zou ons heel wat gepuzzel hebben bespaard als Napoleon in
                                1811 ook verordineerd had dat men op moest geven waarom men voor een
                                bepaalde naam koos., maar helaas.
                                Vriendelijke groeten / kindly regards
                                H. Kuiphof, Holland
                                e-mail: henk.kuiphof@...

                                -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
                                Van: Bram Sonneveld <bso@...>
                                Aan: Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com <Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com>
                                Datum: zaterdag 8 juli 2000 13:53
                                Onderwerp: Re: [Friesland-genealogy] napoleonic decree of 1811


                                >Henk,
                                >Ik begrijp dat jij degene bent die ook in de namendatabank van het P.J.
                                >Meertens-instituut genoemd wordt, dus die informatie heb je al.
                                >In Winkler wordt Kuiphof/Kuyphof(f) niet genoemd. Wel in Huizinga's,
                                >Complete lijst van namen, Tirion, Baarn, z.j., aldaar onder "Hof".
                                >Winkler heeft wel een stukje over namen "Met hof". Ik citeer van p. 278:
                                >"Met hof: Aldershof, Ameshoff, AAttenhoven, Balkenhoven, Bomhoff, Eekhoff,
                                >Eeckhoff en Eekhof, Kouwenhoven, Kruythoo, Noordhof, Nyhoff, Rauwenhoff,
                                >Sijthoff, Spaenhoven, Uuldershof, Uvenhoven en het verlatynschte
                                >Lindenhovius.
                                >Hof, hove, have, zijn oorspronkelik de zelfde woorden, in verschillende
                                form
                                >en uitspraak."
                                >En zo gaat het nog even door. Winkler had een zeer idiosyncratisch
                                >taalgebruik. De "taalfouten" zijn dus van hem.
                                >Mijn konklusie: Iemand die woonde in een hof (tuin, etc.) met een kuip, of
                                >waar een kuiper woonde, noemde zich Kuiphof.
                                >Overigens, Huizinga heeft ongeveer 150 'hof'-namen.
                                >Met groet,
                                >Bram Sonneveld
                                >-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
                                >Van: H. Kuiphof <henk.kuiphof@...>
                                >Aan: Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com <Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com>
                                >Datum: zaterdag 8 juli 2000 10:11
                                >Onderwerp: Re: [Friesland-genealogy] napoleonic decree of 1811
                              • Jim Van Sluys
                                ... From: To: Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2000 2:40 AM Subject: Re: [Friesland-genealogy] napoleonic decree
                                Message 15 of 20 , Jul 9, 2000
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                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  From: <MCTeichert@...>
                                  To: <Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com>
                                  Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2000 2:40 AM
                                  Subject: Re: [Friesland-genealogy] napoleonic decree of 1811


                                  > Dianne,
                                  >
                                  > Nobility and wealthy farmers did use a surname and often towns folk too.
                                  With
                                  > each century, up to 1811, more and more people used surnames. Most common
                                  > people didn't have surnames. Traditionally Frisians have sued a patronymic
                                  > names like, Tjerk Jans (Jan'son'). Their first name usually came from
                                  their
                                  > mother's father. There is more to the tradition than what I explained
                                  here.
                                  > Even when families did use a formal surname, they contiued to use this
                                  > tradition. For example, my grandfather was Jacob Jans de Hoog, his father
                                  was
                                  > Jan Tjerks de Hoog, and his mother's father was Jacob Hoeksma.
                                  >
                                  > In my experience (I may be wrong) a larger number of towns people used
                                  Dutch
                                  > surnames prior to 1811. Can anyone comment?
                                  >
                                  > Frisian names ending with -sma, -ma, -inga, -inia (really an -inga), -da
                                  are
                                  > patronymic. Although there are exceptions, non-patronymic -sma and -ma
                                  names
                                  > likes my gr-grandmother's maiden name Hoeksma. Names ending with -stra,
                                  are
                                  > origin names (I think -na is an origin ending too). If you would like,
                                  send
                                  > me a list of your Frisian surnames and I can probably tell what most of
                                  them
                                  > mean.
                                  >
                                  > Matthias Teichert
                                  > Minneapolis, MN
                                  > MCTeichert@...

                                  Hello Matthias
                                  I am going to take you up on your offer of a description of one of my
                                  Frisian surnames.
                                  My nephew and I are searching for his "Roots" and are interested in his
                                  surname, POSTUMA.
                                  We have seen variations, Posthumus, Postma, etc. and do not know if these
                                  are connected.
                                  So, please, if you have an idea of the meaning of his surname, put us out of
                                  our misery!
                                  Best regards, Jim van Sluys and Greg Postuma. Thanks from "Down Under" Cold
                                  Australia!
                                • Yntze van der Honing
                                  Meaning of POSTMA, POSTHUMUS, POSTHUMA, etc. This surname literally means after one s death , generally referring to a child whose father had already passed
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Jul 10, 2000
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                                    Meaning of POSTMA, POSTHUMUS, POSTHUMA, etc.

                                    This surname literally means "after one's death", generally referring to a
                                    child whose father had already passed away when the child was born. The
                                    name has no relationship with the mail service! There are dozens, if not
                                    hundreds, of families by this name throughout the Netherlands and they are
                                    not all related to one another.

                                    Regards,

                                    Yntze van der Honing

                                    At 08:57 AM 7/10/00 +1000, you wrote:

                                    >----- Original Message -----
                                    >From: <MCTeichert@...>
                                    >To: <Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com>
                                    >Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2000 2:40 AM
                                    >Subject: Re: [Friesland-genealogy] napoleonic decree of 1811
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > > Dianne,
                                    > >
                                    > > Nobility and wealthy farmers did use a surname and often towns folk too.
                                    >With
                                    > > each century, up to 1811, more and more people used surnames. Most common
                                    > > people didn't have surnames. Traditionally Frisians have sued a patronymic
                                    > > names like, Tjerk Jans (Jan'son'). Their first name usually came from
                                    >their
                                    > > mother's father. There is more to the tradition than what I explained
                                    >here.
                                    > > Even when families did use a formal surname, they contiued to use this
                                    > > tradition. For example, my grandfather was Jacob Jans de Hoog, his father
                                    >was
                                    > > Jan Tjerks de Hoog, and his mother's father was Jacob Hoeksma.
                                    > >
                                    > > In my experience (I may be wrong) a larger number of towns people used
                                    >Dutch
                                    > > surnames prior to 1811. Can anyone comment?
                                    > >
                                    > > Frisian names ending with -sma, -ma, -inga, -inia (really an -inga), -da
                                    >are
                                    > > patronymic. Although there are exceptions, non-patronymic -sma and -ma
                                    >names
                                    > > likes my gr-grandmother's maiden name Hoeksma. Names ending with -stra,
                                    >are
                                    > > origin names (I think -na is an origin ending too). If you would like,
                                    >send
                                    > > me a list of your Frisian surnames and I can probably tell what most of
                                    >them
                                    > > mean.
                                    > >
                                    > > Matthias Teichert
                                    > > Minneapolis, MN
                                    > > MCTeichert@...
                                    >
                                    >Hello Matthias
                                    > I am going to take you up on your offer of a description of one of my
                                    >Frisian surnames.
                                    >My nephew and I are searching for his "Roots" and are interested in his
                                    >surname, POSTUMA.
                                    >We have seen variations, Posthumus, Postma, etc. and do not know if these
                                    >are connected.
                                    >So, please, if you have an idea of the meaning of his surname, put us out of
                                    >our misery!
                                    >Best regards, Jim van Sluys and Greg Postuma. Thanks from "Down Under" Cold
                                    >Australia!
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                    >Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and find your ancestors now.
                                    >Search over 550 million names and trace your family tree today. Click here:
                                    >http://click.egroups.com/1/6254/12/_/567109/_/963226774/
                                    >------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                    >
                                    >Genealogy yn Fryslân: http://members1.chello.nl/~a.stienstra/frgen/
                                    >of: http://go.to/frgen .
                                  • andr.mehlsen laustsen
                                    Hello all Frisians (especially Hans, Rinske, and Siebrigje)! The custom mentioned for giving names (at least) has been dominant in peasant families all over
                                    Message 17 of 20 , Jul 10, 2000
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                                      Hello all Frisians (especially Hans, Rinske, and Siebrigje)!
                                      The custom mentioned for giving names (at least) has been dominant in
                                      peasant families all over Western Jutland; e.g. I was in 1928 given the
                                      names of my paternal grandfather: Andreas Mehlsen Laustsen. The Mehlsen (or
                                      Melsen or Meelsen)- name is supposed to be either Dutch or Frisian - it goes
                                      back to the early 18th century at least. In many Danish families (also in my
                                      own) we find the name Friis, a fact that suggests Frisian ancestors.
                                      I should like some comments on these assumptions.
                                      Kind regards
                                      A.Mehlsen L.


                                      >From: siebrigje van der wal <S.vanderwal@...>
                                      >Reply-To: Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com
                                      >To: Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com
                                      >Subject: Re: [Friesland-genealogy] napoleonic decree of 1811
                                      >Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2000 15:14:41 +0200
                                      >
                                      >Hans & Rinske Van Brederode wrote:
                                      >
                                      > > Hello Matthias.
                                      > > According to our Friesian family history the naming of the children went
                                      >thus:
                                      > > the first son was names after the father's father, the second son after
                                      >the
                                      > > mother's father, the first daughter after the mothers mother and the
                                      >second
                                      > > daughter after the father's mother. After that the parents sibling's
                                      >names were
                                      > > used.
                                      > > Does anyone else have the same custom in the family?
                                      > > Rinske van Brederode
                                      > > Barrie, Ontario, Canada
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      >Hello Rinske,
                                      >
                                      >We have the same custom in our family. Although there always are some
                                      >exceptions.
                                      >As the first girl I was named after the 'wrong' grandmother on father side,
                                      >because
                                      >my
                                      >mother liked her better. Also an uncle, Jan, is named after a deceased
                                      >brother of my
                                      >
                                      >grandmother. Otherwise he would have had the name Bauke. There were already
                                      >a lot
                                      >of Bauke's in the family and my father was already named Bokke.
                                      >I like that Frysian names are still used. (father: Bokke, mother: Ytje,
                                      >brothers:
                                      >Anske and Auke,
                                      >me: Siebrigje)
                                      >
                                      >Greetings Siebrigje
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                      >Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and find your ancestors now.
                                      >Search over 550 million names and trace your family tree today. Click here:
                                      >http://click.egroups.com/1/6254/12/_/567109/_/963061377/
                                      >------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                      >
                                      >Genealogy yn Frysl�n: http://members1.chello.nl/~a.stienstra/frgen/
                                      >of: http://go.to/frgen .
                                      >

                                      ________________________________________________________________________
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                                    • andr.mehlsen laustsen
                                      Dear Gerda! The custom to name a child after a deceased sibling is common in Western Jutch families too. We seem to have much in common near the North Sea
                                      Message 18 of 20 , Jul 10, 2000
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                                        Dear Gerda!
                                        The custom to name a child after a deceased sibling is common in Western
                                        Jutch families too.
                                        We seem to have much in common near the North Sea
                                        Regards
                                        A. Mehlsen L.


                                        >From: "Gerda" <gpieterse@...>
                                        >Reply-To: Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com
                                        >To: <Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com>
                                        >Subject: Re: [Friesland-genealogy] napoleonic decree of 1811
                                        >Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2000 11:45:47 +0200
                                        >
                                        >Dear Rinske
                                        >
                                        >In our family the custom is also followed, but with exceptions. My
                                        >great grandfather married twice, his first wife died with childbirth,
                                        >but the child survived and was named Jetske, after her mother. When gr
                                        >grandfather married again, his first two daughters were named after
                                        >the maternal and paternal grandmothers respectively, but then the
                                        >child from the first marriage died at age seven, and the next daughter
                                        >was named after her. This Jetske was a full sister sister of my
                                        >grandmother Maaike. When my grandmother married her sister Jetske had
                                        >also passed away, as had the paternal grandmother, so the paternal
                                        >grandmother was named first, then the sister, and after those the
                                        >maternal grandmother who was still alive at the time.
                                        >
                                        >My grandmother always went to great lengths to explain that the naming
                                        >protocol was reversed, and who was named after whom in the family. I
                                        >have heard that this is particularly true of the "Doopsgezinden",
                                        >which this family was, but haven't had this explained to me yet.
                                        >
                                        >In other families I have found that pre-deceased children are also
                                        >renamed several times. The ten Brink's had three sons named Johannes
                                        >(none survived the first year)
                                        >
                                        >Regards
                                        >
                                        >Gerda
                                        >
                                        >.
                                        >
                                        >----- Original Message -----
                                        >From: "Hans & Rinske Van Brederode" <van.brederode@...>
                                        >To: <Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com>
                                        >Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2000 2:13 AM
                                        >Subject: Re: [Friesland-genealogy] napoleonic decree of 1811
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > > Hello Matthias.
                                        > > According to our Friesian family history the naming of the children
                                        >went thus:
                                        > > the first son was names after the father's father, the second son
                                        >after the
                                        > > mother's father, the first daughter after the mothers mother and the
                                        >second
                                        > > daughter after the father's mother. After that the parents
                                        >sibling's names were
                                        > > used.
                                        > > Does anyone else have the same custom in the family?
                                        > > Rinske van Brederode
                                        > > Barrie, Ontario, Canada
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > MCTeichert@... wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > > > Dianne,
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Nobility and wealthy farmers did use a surname and often towns
                                        >folk too. With
                                        > > > each century, up to 1811, more and more people used surnames. Most
                                        >common
                                        > > > people didn't have surnames. Traditionally Frisians have sued a
                                        >patronymic
                                        > > > names like, Tjerk Jans (Jan'son'). Their first name usually came
                                        >from their
                                        > > > mother's father. There is more to the tradition than what I
                                        >explained here.
                                        > > > Even when families did use a formal surname, they contiued to use
                                        >this
                                        > > > tradition. For example, my grandfather was Jacob Jans de Hoog, his
                                        >father was
                                        > > > Jan Tjerks de Hoog, and his mother's father was Jacob Hoeksma.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > In my experience (I may be wrong) a larger number of towns people
                                        >used Dutch
                                        > > > surnames prior to 1811. Can anyone comment?
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Frisian names ending with -sma, -ma, -inga, -inia (really
                                        >an -inga), -da are
                                        > > > patronymic. Although there are exceptions, non-patronymic -sma
                                        >and -ma names
                                        > > > likes my gr-grandmother's maiden name Hoeksma. Names ending
                                        >with -stra, are
                                        > > > origin names (I think -na is an origin ending too). If you would
                                        >like, send
                                        > > > me a list of your Frisian surnames and I can probably tell what
                                        >most of them
                                        > > > mean.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Matthias Teichert
                                        > > > Minneapolis, MN
                                        > > > MCTeichert@...
                                        > > >
                                        > >
                                        > > --------------------------------------------------------------------
                                        >----
                                        > > > Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and find your ancestors
                                        >now.
                                        > > > Search over 550 million names and trace your family tree today.
                                        >Click here:
                                        > > > http://click.egroups.com/1/6254/12/_/567109/_/962988065/
                                        > >
                                        > > --------------------------------------------------------------------
                                        >----
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Genealogy yn Frysl�n:
                                        >http://members1.chello.nl/~a.stienstra/frgen/
                                        > > > of: http://go.to/frgen .
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > --------------------------------------------------------------------
                                        >----
                                        > > Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and find your ancestors
                                        >now.
                                        > > Search over 550 million names and trace your family tree today.
                                        >Click here:
                                        > > http://click.egroups.com/1/6254/12/_/567109/_/963015303/
                                        > > --------------------------------------------------------------------
                                        >----
                                        > >
                                        > > Genealogy yn Frysl�n: http://members1.chello.nl/~a.stienstra/frgen/
                                        > > of: http://go.to/frgen .
                                        > >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                        >Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and find your ancestors now.
                                        >Search over 550 million names and trace your family tree today. Click here:
                                        >http://click.egroups.com/1/6254/12/_/567109/_/963049091/
                                        >------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                        >
                                        >Genealogy yn Frysl�n: http://members1.chello.nl/~a.stienstra/frgen/
                                        >of: http://go.to/frgen .
                                        >

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                                      • Gerda
                                        Hi Andreas, The Frisians did indeed inhabit a vast part of Scandinavia, particularly Denmark, much of the Lowlands and parts of Gr Brittain. The small regions
                                        Message 19 of 20 , Jul 10, 2000
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                                          Hi Andreas,

                                          The Frisians did indeed inhabit a vast part of Scandinavia,
                                          particularly Denmark, much of the Lowlands and parts of Gr Brittain.
                                          The small regions that remain today, and are artificially divided
                                          between countries, are just a fraction of their former sphere of
                                          influence.

                                          I always wonder if there is a relationship between some Frisian names
                                          and French names. The names Ytjen and Ettienne or Sake and Jacques
                                          spring to mind immediately, but I have noticed more.

                                          What I would also like to know is why the name "de Vries",
                                          understandably prevalent in Friesland and a popular choice in 1811, is
                                          also prevalent in the rest of the Netherlands as well as in the Dutch
                                          Jewish community? Were these names also chosen during Napoleon's rule,
                                          or did they come through from a much earlier age?

                                          Regards, met vriendelijke groet

                                          Gerda




                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                          From: "andr.mehlsen laustsen" <aml28@...>
                                          To: <Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com>
                                          Sent: Monday, July 10, 2000 9:40 PM
                                          Subject: Re: [Friesland-genealogy] napoleonic decree of 1811


                                          > Dear Gerda!
                                          > The custom to name a child after a deceased sibling is common in
                                          Western
                                          > Jutch families too.
                                          > We seem to have much in common near the North Sea
                                          > Regards
                                          > A. Mehlsen L.
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > >From: "Gerda" <gpieterse@...>
                                          > >Reply-To: Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com
                                          > >To: <Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com>
                                          > >Subject: Re: [Friesland-genealogy] napoleonic decree of 1811
                                          > >Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2000 11:45:47 +0200
                                          > >
                                          > >Dear Rinske
                                          > >
                                          > >In our family the custom is also followed, but with exceptions. My
                                          > >great grandfather married twice, his first wife died with
                                          childbirth,
                                          > >but the child survived and was named Jetske, after her mother. When
                                          gr
                                          > >grandfather married again, his first two daughters were named after
                                          > >the maternal and paternal grandmothers respectively, but then the
                                          > >child from the first marriage died at age seven, and the next
                                          daughter
                                          > >was named after her. This Jetske was a full sister sister of my
                                          > >grandmother Maaike. When my grandmother married her sister Jetske
                                          had
                                          > >also passed away, as had the paternal grandmother, so the paternal
                                          > >grandmother was named first, then the sister, and after those the
                                          > >maternal grandmother who was still alive at the time.
                                          > >
                                          > >My grandmother always went to great lengths to explain that the
                                          naming
                                          > >protocol was reversed, and who was named after whom in the family.
                                          I
                                          > >have heard that this is particularly true of the "Doopsgezinden",
                                          > >which this family was, but haven't had this explained to me yet.
                                          > >
                                          > >In other families I have found that pre-deceased children are also
                                          > >renamed several times. The ten Brink's had three sons named
                                          Johannes
                                          > >(none survived the first year)
                                          > >
                                          > >Regards
                                          > >
                                          > >Gerda
                                          > >
                                          > >.
                                          > >
                                          > >----- Original Message -----
                                          > >From: "Hans & Rinske Van Brederode" <van.brederode@...>
                                          > >To: <Friesland-genealogy@egroups.com>
                                          > >Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2000 2:13 AM
                                          > >Subject: Re: [Friesland-genealogy] napoleonic decree of 1811
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > > Hello Matthias.
                                          > > > According to our Friesian family history the naming of the
                                          children
                                          > >went thus:
                                          > > > the first son was names after the father's father, the second
                                          son
                                          > >after the
                                          > > > mother's father, the first daughter after the mothers mother and
                                          the
                                          > >second
                                          > > > daughter after the father's mother. After that the parents
                                          > >sibling's names were
                                          > > > used.
                                          > > > Does anyone else have the same custom in the family?
                                          > > > Rinske van Brederode
                                          > > > Barrie, Ontario, Canada
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > > MCTeichert@... wrote:
                                          > > >
                                          > > > > Dianne,
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Nobility and wealthy farmers did use a surname and often towns
                                          > >folk too. With
                                          > > > > each century, up to 1811, more and more people used surnames.
                                          Most
                                          > >common
                                          > > > > people didn't have surnames. Traditionally Frisians have sued
                                          a
                                          > >patronymic
                                          > > > > names like, Tjerk Jans (Jan'son'). Their first name usually
                                          came
                                          > >from their
                                          > > > > mother's father. There is more to the tradition than what I
                                          > >explained here.
                                          > > > > Even when families did use a formal surname, they contiued to
                                          use
                                          > >this
                                          > > > > tradition. For example, my grandfather was Jacob Jans de Hoog,
                                          his
                                          > >father was
                                          > > > > Jan Tjerks de Hoog, and his mother's father was Jacob Hoeksma.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > In my experience (I may be wrong) a larger number of towns
                                          people
                                          > >used Dutch
                                          > > > > surnames prior to 1811. Can anyone comment?
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Frisian names ending with -sma, -ma, -inga, -inia (really
                                          > >an -inga), -da are
                                          > > > > patronymic. Although there are exceptions, non-patronymic -sma
                                          > >and -ma names
                                          > > > > likes my gr-grandmother's maiden name Hoeksma. Names ending
                                          > >with -stra, are
                                          > > > > origin names (I think -na is an origin ending too). If you
                                          would
                                          > >like, send
                                          > > > > me a list of your Frisian surnames and I can probably tell
                                          what
                                          > >most of them
                                          > > > > mean.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Matthias Teichert
                                          > > > > Minneapolis, MN
                                          > > > > MCTeichert@...
                                          > > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > >
                                          > --------------------------------------------------------------------
                                          > >----
                                          > > > > Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and find your
                                          ancestors
                                          > >now.
                                          > > > > Search over 550 million names and trace your family tree
                                          today.
                                          > >Click here:
                                          > > > > http://click.egroups.com/1/6254/12/_/567109/_/962988065/
                                          > > >
                                          > >
                                          > --------------------------------------------------------------------
                                          > >----
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Genealogy yn Fryslân:
                                          > >http://members1.chello.nl/~a.stienstra/frgen/
                                          > > > > of: http://go.to/frgen .
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > >
                                          > --------------------------------------------------------------------
                                          > >----
                                          > > > Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and find your
                                          ancestors
                                          > >now.
                                          > > > Search over 550 million names and trace your family tree today.
                                          > >Click here:
                                          > > > http://click.egroups.com/1/6254/12/_/567109/_/963015303/
                                          > >
                                          > --------------------------------------------------------------------
                                          > >----
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Genealogy yn Fryslân:
                                          http://members1.chello.nl/~a.stienstra/frgen/
                                          > > > of: http://go.to/frgen .
                                          > > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          >
                                          >---------------------------------------------------------------------
                                          ---
                                          > >Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and find your ancestors
                                          now.
                                          > >Search over 550 million names and trace your family tree today.
                                          Click here:
                                          > >http://click.egroups.com/1/6254/12/_/567109/_/963049091/
                                          >
                                          >---------------------------------------------------------------------
                                          ---
                                          > >
                                          > >Genealogy yn Fryslân: http://members1.chello.nl/~a.stienstra/frgen/
                                          > >of: http://go.to/frgen .
                                          > >
                                          >
                                          >
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                                          > Genealogy yn Fryslân: http://members1.chello.nl/~a.stienstra/frgen/
                                          > of: http://go.to/frgen .
                                          >
                                        • MCTeichert@aol.com
                                          In a message dated 07/10/2000 4:48:00 PM Central Daylight Time, ... Some people used surnames (both Dutch and Frisian) prior to 1811. Some people chose a
                                          Message 20 of 20 , Jul 11, 2000
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            In a message dated 07/10/2000 4:48:00 PM Central Daylight Time,
                                            gpieterse@... writes:

                                            > hat I would also like to know is why the name "de Vries",
                                            > understandably prevalent in Friesland and a popular choice in 1811, is
                                            > also prevalent in the rest of the Netherlands as well as in the Dutch
                                            > Jewish community? Were these names also chosen during Napoleon's rule,
                                            > or did they come through from a much earlier age?

                                            Some people used surnames (both Dutch and Frisian) prior to 1811. Some people
                                            chose a surname in 1811. Naturally some people left Friesland and went south
                                            into Holland etc. Those that went to non-Frisian regions of the Netherlands,
                                            were usually called 'the Frisian' by locals. The newcomer probably spoke
                                            Dutch with an accent.

                                            I can't comment about the Jewish community. Perhaps a larger portion of the
                                            Jews in the NL's went to Friesland first and then moved south. I really don't
                                            know.

                                            Matthias Teichert

                                            "Ball ist rund. Spiel dauert neunzig Minuten. Soviel ist schon mal klar.
                                            Alles andere ist Theorie. Und Ab!" - Schuster, Lola Rennt.
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