5466Re: [FreeOhio] Fw: census law
- Dec 9, 2009To All:Here's an answer I received from Jeff Dickstein, attorney, re: the Census Survey. Take great heed on what he writes.Although, Jeff's answer deals with the Census Bureau's 'American Community Survey,' it also pertains to the census form that will be mailed next year. The authentic Census form will consist of 10 questions; however, the 'survey' contains 48 intrusive questions.Although, you may disagree with Jeff's observation/opinion, remember, you will be dealing with the 'powers-that-be' if you refuse to answer the survey (or Census). Jeff goes into detail on pointing this out. Just like any other controversial subject, when it comes to guv entities, you must make up your mind on whether you want to sacrifice your time, effort, energy, liberty and/or property. It will take much time preparing and doing some extensive research to build your argument/case/foundation if you refuse to comply, or provide 'off-the-wall' answers. This is crucial, even for this kind of 'Mickey Mouse' form, (survey) since it carries civil and criminal penalties. The choice is yours.If anyone wishes to observe the 'survey' form, let me know, I have entered it into Microsoft Word.pat----- Original Message -----From: Jeffrey A. DicksteinTo: Pat WagnerSent: Monday, December 07, 2009 11:22 AMSubject: Re: 2009 American Community (Census) SurveyWow, de jure and de facto. I'm certain those you might write to with these questions will spend hundreds of hours doing their research to provide you with an answer, and since you asked the questions, you will receive the full protection of the law!!! NOTThe issue is simple. The government thinks they are entitled to the answers. You decide, for whatever moral or eithcal grounds you have, that you will answer or not. If you chose not to answer, be prepared to pay the price.$100 per question if you don't answer; $500 per each question if you answer falsely. 13 U.S.C. Section 221The penalty is per criminal law; the government files an indictment or information; you defend in federal district court.(a) Whoever, being over eighteen years of age, refuses or willfully neglects, when requested by the Secretary, or by any other authorized officer or employee of the Department of Commerce or bureau or agency thereof acting under the instructions of the Secretary or authorized officer, to answer, to the best of his knowledge, any of the questions on any schedule submitted to him in connection with any census or survey provided for by subchapters I, II, IV, and V of chapter 5 of this title, applying to himself or to the family to which he belongs or is related, or to the farm or farms of which he or his family is the occupant, shall be fined not more than $100.(b) Whoever, when answering questions described in subsection (a) of this section, and under the conditions or circumstances described in such subsection, willfully gives any answer that is false, shall be fined not more than $500.(c) Notwithstanding any other provision of this title, no person shall be compelled to disclose information relative to his religious beliefs or to membership in a religious body.1. ConstitutionalityProvision of this section making it offense for person over 18 to refuse or willfully neglect to answer any question on any schedule submitted to him in connection with any census was not rendered unconstitutionally vague and indefinite because of need to refer to other sections in order to determine census required. U.S. v. Little, D.C.Del.1971, 321 F.Supp. 388. Census 22. Number of violationsUnder this section making it an offense to refuse or wilfully neglect to answer any questions on schedule submitted in connection with any census, a refusal or wilful neglect to answer any question on any schedule submitted would constitute a violation and there could be a separate violation for each unanswered question. U.S. v. Little, D.C.Del.1970, 317 F.Supp. 1308. Census 53. Indictment or informationInformation specifying by number questions on census schedule which defendant allegedly refused to answer on request and designating schedule of 1970 census submitted to defendant was sufficient to inform defendant that he was charged with refusal to answer specified census questions. U.S. v. Little, D.C.Del.1971, 321 F.Supp. 388. Census 5Indictment sufficiently charged defendant, who allegedly refused to answer questions on schedule submitted to him in connection with census questions on household questionnaire for 1960 population census and housing, with offense within this section, providing penalty for refusal to answer questions on schedule submitted in connection with census. U.S. v. Rickenbacker, S.D.N.Y.1961, 197 F.Supp. 924, affirmed 309 F.2d 462, certiorari denied 83 S.Ct. 542, 371 U.S. 962, 9 L.Ed.2d 509. Census 54. Selective prosecutionWhere defendant, who had participated in a census resistance movement, publicizing a dissident view of census as an unconstitutional invasion of privacy, was prosecuted with three others for refusing to answer questions on census form, yet at least six others had committed same offense, where background reports were compiled only on persons who had publicly attacked census, and where government offered no explanation for its selection of defendant, other than prosecutorial discretion, and made no effort to justify prosecution as result of random selection or otherwise, a purposeful discrimination by census authorities against those who had publicly expressed their opinions about census was demonstrated, and conviction of defendant for refusing to answer questions on census form would be reversed. U.S. v. Steele, C.A.9 (Hawai'i) 1972, 461 F.2d 1148. Constitutional Law 1805; Criminal Law 37.15(2)Conviction for refusal to answer census schedule was valid although there was indication that other persons had also refused to fill out questionnaire but had not been prosecuted. U.S. v. Rickenbacker, C.A.2 (N.Y.) 1962, 309 F.2d 462, certiorari denied 83 S.Ct. 542, 371 U.S. 962, 9 L.Ed.2d 509. Criminal Law 37.10(2)This is an answer from another source:Pat, Some idea here to let you read and pass on, think about.
This will help people who are opposed to filling this form out if they are interested in applying this lawful right! The Right Of Inquiry! You have the right of inquiry once any thing (government, police, city, county so on makes first contact with you, you then have the "Right Of Inquiry". Start written them back, Tell them you don't understand and ask questions of these bureaucrat's and your Congressman, Senators sense they set this up you have a right to ask them questions and ask more questions. You have the right to ask many, many questions to get answers to everything. Which u.S. or U.S. are they representing, is it the De Jury or De Facto corporate U.S. or us or US? Who are they? Why are they asking this question? See Al Adesk blog http://adask.wordpress.com . The Right of Inquiry should be listed there for further research. Do it by mail and if they lie to you, don't answer your questions fully, truthfully, Have they committed mail fraud???
Also look up the wording AT ARMS LENGTH. I heard a statement given from the pres cab using that phrase a few weeks ago. They copied it from some where (Adask)...
From: Charlie Hazlett <charlie@...>
Sent: Tue, September 22, 2009 4:51:55 PM
Subject: Re: [FreeOhio] Fw: census law
Hey, it is time to realize the federal government can do just about anything it wants to do, Constitutional or not.
When the states stopped nullification it was all over for the Republic and we became a federalized social democracy. the only rights you have are the ones the government decides you have. Remember the Supreme Court is Part and Parcel of the very same government it is supposed to help wrangle..... ...
Our only recourse, as I see it, is to press our state governments to give us back our freedoms,, but that has about as much chance of success as a snowball in hell.
If they decide to prosecute you for not providing information to the senseless bureau they will do so, probably with the full concurrence of the supreme court.
On Tue, 22 Sep 2009 08:50:08 -0700 (PDT), Pat Wagner <pwagner456@yahoo. com> wrote:so, is it my understanding, that if one doesn't provide answers, or gives false statements on a census document, Title 18 (criminal) kicks in? if that's the case, i'm wondering what kind of jurat they have on the census doc warning a respondant they will be criminally prosecuted/fined pursuant to Title 18. seems to me, this would invoke some 4th, or 5th amendment concerns. is a census doc going to be in the same category as a federal tax return? (below is what i copied from the 13 usc 221. have not verified the Title 18 sections.)patCITE-
13 USC Sec. 221 01/08/2008
TITLE 13 - CENSUS
CHAPTER 7 - OFFENSES AND PENALTIES
SUBCHAPTER II - OTHER PERSONS
Sec. 221. Refusal or neglect to answer questions; false answers
(a) Whoever, being over eighteen years of age, refuses or
willfully neglects, when requested by the Secretary, or by any
other authorized officer or employee of the Department of Commerce
or bureau or agency thereof acting under the instructions of the
Secretary or authorized officer, to answer, to the best of his
knowledge, any of the questions on any schedule submitted to him in
connection with any census or survey provided for by subchapters I,
II, IV, and V of chapter 5 of this title, applying to himself or to
the family to which he belongs or is related, or to the farm or
farms of which he or his family is the occupant, shall be fined not
more than $100.
(b) Whoever, when answering questions described in subsection (a)
of this section, and under the conditions or circumstances
described in such subsection, willfully gives any answer that is
false, shall be fined not more than $500.
(c) Notwithstanding any other provision of this title, no person
shall be compelled to disclose information relative to his
religious beliefs or to membership in a religious body.
(Aug. 31, 1954, ch. 1158, 68 Stat. 1023; Pub. L. 85-207, Sec. 15,
Aug. 28, 1957, 71 Stat. 484; Pub. L. 94-521, Sec. 13, Oct. 17,
1976, 90 Stat. 2465.)
HISTORICAL AND REVISION NOTES
Based on title 13, U.S.C., 1952 ed., Secs. 122, 209, and section
1442 of title 42, U.S.C., 1952 ed., The Public Health and Welfare
(June 18, 1929, ch. 28, Sec. 9, 46 Stat. 23; June 19, 1948, ch.
502, Sec. 2, 62 Stat. 479; July 15, 1949, ch. 338, title VI, Sec.
607, 63 Stat. 441).
Section consolidates the first paragraph of section 209 of title
13, U.S.C., 1952 ed., which section related to the decennial
censuses of population, agriculture, etc. (see subchapter II of
chapter 5 of this revised title), with that part of section 122 of
such title which made such section 209 applicable to the
quinquennial censuses of manufactures, the mineral industries, and
other businesses (see subchapter I of chapter 5 of this revised
title) and applicable to the surveys provided for by section 121(b)
of such title (see subchapter IV of chapter 5 of this revised
title), and that part of subsection (b) of section 1442 of title
42, U.S.C., 1952 ed., which made such section 209 applicable to the
decennial censuses of housing (see subchapter II of chapter 5 of
this revised title). For remainder of sections 122 and 209 of title
13, U.S.C., 1952 ed., and of section 1442 of title 42, U.S.C., 1952
ed. (which section has been transferred in its entirety to this
revised title), see Distribution Table.
The language of section 209 of title 13, U.S.C., 1952 ed.,
providing that it should "be the duty" of all persons over eighteen
years of age, to answer correctly, to the best of their knowledge,
when requested, etc., was omitted as unnecessary and redundant. The
provisions, as herein revised, define offenses and prescribe
penalties for committing them, and are deemed sufficient for the
purpose of enforcement. However, some of the language used in the
omitted provisions was necessarily included in the description of
The designation of the first offense, herein described, as a
"misdemeanor" , was omitted as covered by section 1 of title 18,
U.S.C., 1952 ed., Crimes and Criminal Procedure, classifying
crimes; and words "upon conviction thereof" were omitted as
References to the Secretary (of Commerce) and to any "authorized
officer or employee of the Department of Commerce or bureau or
agency thereof", etc., were substituted for references to the
Director of the Census and to any "supervisor, enumerator, or
special agent, or other employee of the Census Office", to conform
with 1950 Reorganization Plan No. 5, Secs. 1, 2, eff. May 24, 1950,
15 F.R. 3174, 64 Stat. 1263. See revision note to section 4 of this
Changes were made in phraseology.
1976 - Subsec. (a). Pub. L. 94-521, Sec. 13(1), struck out
provision authorizing imprisonment for not more than sixty days for
refusing or willfully neglecting to answer questions under this
Subsec. (b). Pub. L. 94-521, Sec. 13(2), struck out provision
authorizing imprisonment for not more than one year for willfully
giving a false answer to a question under this section.
Subsec. (c). Pub. L. 94-521, Sec. 13(3), added subsec. (c).
1957 - Subsec. (a). Pub. L. 85-207 substituted "I, II, IV, and V"
for "I, II, and IV".
EFFECTIVE DATE OF 1976 AMENDMENT
Amendment by Pub. L. 94-521 effective Oct. 17, 1976, see section
17 of Pub. L. 94-521, set out as a note under section 1 of this
--- On Fri, 9/11/09, Jeremy Oehlert com> wrote:
From: Jeremy Oehlert com>
Subject: Re: [FreeOhio] Fw: census law
To: FreeOhio@yahoogroup s.com
Date: Friday, September 11, 2009, 3:51 PMAccording to the Census Bureau,
Respondents are required to answer all questions on the American Community Survey (ACS) to the best of their ability. Response to this and other Census surveys is required by law (Section 221 of Title 13, Chapter 7, United States Code). This chapter also contains information regarding offenses and possible penalties. According to Section 221, persons who do not respond shall be fined not more than $100. Title 18 U.S.C. Section 3571 and Section 3559, in effect amends Title 13 U.S.C. Section 221 by changing the fine for anyone over 18 years old who refuses or willfully neglects to complete the questionnaire or answer questions posed by census takers from a fine of not more than $100 to not more than $5,000.
https://ask. census2010. gov/cgi-bin/ askcensus2010. cfg/php/enduser/ std_adp.php? p_faqid=642&p_created=109352263 9&p_sid=DqE2OGHj&p_accessibility= 0&p_redirect=&p_lva=&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPSZwX3 NvcnRfYnk9JnBfZ3 JpZHNvcnQ9JnBfcm 93X2NudD0yNTQsMj U0JnBfcHJvZHM9Jn BfY2F0cz0mcF9wdj 0mcF9jdj0mcF9zZW FyY2hfdHlwZT1hbn N3ZXJzLnNlYXJjaF 9ubCZwX3BhZ2U9MQ **&p_li=&p_topview=1
More info if you visit the link.
"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around [the banks] will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs."
- Thomas Jefferson, Letter to the Secretary of the Treasury Albert Gallatin (1802)
"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves." -- William Pitt, 18 Nov 1783
"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." -- Thomas JeffersonOn Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 2:36 PM, Pat Wagner <pwagner456@yahoo. com> wrote:
Census will be taken in 2010. Have heard 'rumblings' that if one refuses to answer all questions on the form, they can be fined up to 5k. Does anyone at Free Ohio know anything about this? the way the 'law' is stated, below, i don't see the authority substantiating this fine.. pathere's the law, in part, on a census taker coming to your home. it's a well known fact they do have the lawful authority to 'ingress & egress' on various properties in collecting census statistics, i.e., head count of persons living in a dwelling. however, as i read the 'law,' in more depth, it appears to be lacking the lawful verbiage for a census taker to come on to one's private property, i.e., resident, domain, permanent place of abode, other than to place the packet of forms in a homeowners mailbox. they have no authority to knock on your door, ask questions, or request entry to your property. during my years on this planet, i never had a census taker knock on my door & ask for info. the packet was always left in my mailbox. if i'm wrong about this, please advise with substantial proof.Whoever, being the owner, proprietor, manager, superintendent, or agent of any hotel, apartment house, boarding or lodging house, tenement, or other building, refuses or willfully neglects, when requested by the Secretary Secretary or by any other officer or employee of the Department of Commerce or bureau or agency thereof, acting under the instructions of the Secretary, to furnish the names of the occupants of such premises, or to give free ingress thereto and egress therefrom to any duly accredited representative of such Department or bureau or agency thereof, so as to permit the collection of statistics with respect to any census provided for in subchapters I and II of chapter 5 of this title, or any survey authorized by subchapter IV or V of such chapter insofar as such survey relates to any of the subjects for which censuses are provided by such subchapters I and II, including, when relevant to the census or survey being taken or made, the proper and correct enumeration of all persons having their usual place of abode in such premises, shall be fined not more than $500.
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