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Re: [FraDiavolo] Itrani Films - VAULT ALERT!!!!!

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  • Jason Soscia
    Can they really recall them back to Salt Lake? I paid for most of those Itri films to be kept there indefinitely. miyukichan0987
    Message 1 of 14 , Mar 8, 2008
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      Can they really recall them back to Salt Lake?  I paid for most of those Itri films to be kept there indefinitely.

      miyukichan0987 <miyukichan0987@...> wrote:
      I noticed while composing a response to our newest member, Martine,
      that quite a few of the films for Itri now say "VAULT INTL Film"
      rather than "FHL INTL Film'.

      I do know that under certain circumstances, films that were previously
      available to research, suddenly become restricted for reasons no one
      aka the volunteers at my FHC has been able to tell me because they
      don't know either. They just get notices from Salt Lake telling them
      to pull the films and return them to the FHL.

      If these films that are now "Vault" are to be restricted it would be a
      major blow to all of us trying to research our ancestors in Itri! It
      has been frustrating enough for me that I can only research the period
      between 1809 -1865 but now to lose a major portion of the films of
      that period would be an insurmountable research tragedy!

      15 of the 26 films of records for Itri are now designated "Vault". I
      called my FHC to see if that means the records are no longer available
      but the volunteer did not know what "Vault" meant with respect to
      films already on loan. So far, the Itrani films at the Warwick, RI
      FHC that are on "Indefinite" loan and which constitute nearly a
      complete set of all the 26 films available, all seem to still be there.

      However, since I don't know if they will at some point in the near
      future be ordered pulled from the files and sent back to Salt Lake,
      I'm going to start living at the FHC because I am far from done with
      searching through those films.

      Can anyone tell the rest of us if "Vault" means that we are about to
      lose access to over 50% of the available films on Itri or not??

      Linda



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    • Linda Peloquin
      I think so...I went in one day when Verna was pulling films and I asked her about what she was doing and she showed me a list that had come from Salt Lake that
      Message 2 of 14 , Mar 8, 2008
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        I think so...I went in one day when Verna was pulling films and I asked her about what she was doing and she showed me a list that had come from Salt Lake that our director wanted the volunteers to pull.  U know what a stickler he seems to be.  I'm afraid to ask and bring attention to the films...I wish there were some way we could spirit them out of there and have bootlegs made...I'd definitely want to share the cost especially if the alternative is having all that information locked away where we can't see it any more.

        Linda

        Jason Soscia <jsoscia3@...> wrote:
        Can they really recall them back to Salt Lake?  I paid for most of those Itri films to be kept there indefinitely.

        miyukichan0987 <miyukichan0987@ yahoo.com> wrote:
        I noticed while composing a response to our newest member, Martine,
        that quite a few of the films for Itri now say "VAULT INTL Film"
        rather than "FHL INTL Film'.

        I do know that under certain circumstances, films that were previously
        available to research, suddenly become restricted for reasons no one
        aka the volunteers at my FHC has been able to tell me because they
        don't know either. They just get notices from Salt Lake telling them
        to pull the films and return them to the FHL.

        If these films that are now "Vault" are to be restricted it would be a
        major blow to all of us trying to research our ancestors in Itri! It
        has been frustrating enough for me that I can only research the period
        between 1809 -1865 but now to lose a major portion of the films of
        that period would be an insurmountable research tragedy!

        15 of the 26 films of records for Itri are now designated "Vault". I
        called my FHC to see if that means the records are no longer available
        but the volunteer did not know what "Vault" meant with respect to
        films already on loan. So far, the Itrani films at the Warwick, RI
        FHC that are on "Indefinite" loan and which constitute nearly a
        complete set of all the 26 films available, all seem to still be there.

        However, since I don't know if they will at some point in the near
        future be ordered pulled from the files and sent back to Salt Lake,
        I'm going to start living at the FHC because I am far from done with
        searching through those films.

        Can anyone tell the rest of us if "Vault" means that we are about to
        lose access to over 50% of the available films on Itri or not??

        Linda



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      • marie saccoccio
        I did some searching and there is a vault outside of Salt Lake City where these are kept. It actually is a whole in the side of a mountain to protect them.
        Message 3 of 14 , Mar 8, 2008
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          I did some searching and there is a vault outside of Salt Lake City where these are kept.  It actually is a whole in the side of a mountain to protect them.  Looks kind of space age!!!  When you go to Salt Lake City you can view them but you have to order them before hand.  It says that some are chosen for safekeeping.  I bet there is more to this than meets the eye!!  Why Itri of all places?? 
           
          Marie  

          Linda Peloquin <miyukichan0987@...> wrote:
          I think so...I went in one day when Verna was pulling films and I asked her about what she was doing and she showed me a list that had come from Salt Lake that our director wanted the volunteers to pull.  U know what a stickler he seems to be.  I'm afraid to ask and bring attention to the films...I wish there were some way we could spirit them out of there and have bootlegs made...I'd definitely want to share the cost especially if the alternative is having all that information locked away where we can't see it any more.

          Linda

          Jason Soscia <jsoscia3@yahoo. com> wrote:
          Can they really recall them back to Salt Lake?  I paid for most of those Itri films to be kept there indefinitely.

          miyukichan0987 <miyukichan0987@ yahoo.com> wrote:
          I noticed while composing a response to our newest member, Martine,
          that quite a few of the films for Itri now say "VAULT INTL Film"
          rather than "FHL INTL Film'.

          I do know that under certain circumstances, films that were previously
          available to research, suddenly become restricted for reasons no one
          aka the volunteers at my FHC has been able to tell me because they
          don't know either. They just get notices from Salt Lake telling them
          to pull the films and return them to the FHL.

          If these films that are now "Vault" are to be restricted it would be a
          major blow to all of us trying to research our ancestors in Itri! It
          has been frustrating enough for me that I can only research the period
          between 1809 -1865 but now to lose a major portion of the films of
          that period would be an insurmountable research tragedy!

          15 of the 26 films of records for Itri are now designated "Vault". I
          called my FHC to see if that means the records are no longer available
          but the volunteer did not know what "Vault" meant with respect to
          films already on loan. So far, the Itrani films at the Warwick, RI
          FHC that are on "Indefinite" loan and which constitute nearly a
          complete set of all the 26 films available, all seem to still be there.

          However, since I don't know if they will at some point in the near
          future be ordered pulled from the files and sent back to Salt Lake,
          I'm going to start living at the FHC because I am far from done with
          searching through those films.

          Can anyone tell the rest of us if "Vault" means that we are about to
          lose access to over 50% of the available films on Itri or not??

          Linda



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          Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.



          Marie Elena Saccoccio


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        • marie saccoccio
          You know this could be a ploy to get folks to travel to Salt Lake City. Since there are very few records outside of this collection on Itri, they may have
          Message 4 of 14 , Mar 8, 2008
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            You know this could be a ploy to get folks to travel to Salt Lake City.  Since there are very few records outside of this collection on Itri, they may have been chosen for precisely this reason!! 
             
            I have a Latter Day Center right down the street from me.  I have never crossed the threshold.  Perhaps I should.  what precisely should I ask for??
             
            Marie

            Linda Peloquin <miyukichan0987@...> wrote:
            I think so...I went in one day when Verna was pulling films and I asked her about what she was doing and she showed me a list that had come from Salt Lake that our director wanted the volunteers to pull.  U know what a stickler he seems to be.  I'm afraid to ask and bring attention to the films...I wish there were some way we could spirit them out of there and have bootlegs made...I'd definitely want to share the cost especially if the alternative is having all that information locked away where we can't see it any more.

            Linda

            Jason Soscia <jsoscia3@yahoo. com> wrote:
            Can they really recall them back to Salt Lake?  I paid for most of those Itri films to be kept there indefinitely.

            miyukichan0987 <miyukichan0987@ yahoo.com> wrote:
            I noticed while composing a response to our newest member, Martine,
            that quite a few of the films for Itri now say "VAULT INTL Film"
            rather than "FHL INTL Film'.

            I do know that under certain circumstances, films that were previously
            available to research, suddenly become restricted for reasons no one
            aka the volunteers at my FHC has been able to tell me because they
            don't know either. They just get notices from Salt Lake telling them
            to pull the films and return them to the FHL.

            If these films that are now "Vault" are to be restricted it would be a
            major blow to all of us trying to research our ancestors in Itri! It
            has been frustrating enough for me that I can only research the period
            between 1809 -1865 but now to lose a major portion of the films of
            that period would be an insurmountable research tragedy!

            15 of the 26 films of records for Itri are now designated "Vault". I
            called my FHC to see if that means the records are no longer available
            but the volunteer did not know what "Vault" meant with respect to
            films already on loan. So far, the Itrani films at the Warwick, RI
            FHC that are on "Indefinite" loan and which constitute nearly a
            complete set of all the 26 films available, all seem to still be there.

            However, since I don't know if they will at some point in the near
            future be ordered pulled from the files and sent back to Salt Lake,
            I'm going to start living at the FHC because I am far from done with
            searching through those films.

            Can anyone tell the rest of us if "Vault" means that we are about to
            lose access to over 50% of the available films on Itri or not??

            Linda



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            Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.



            Marie Elena Saccoccio


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          • Linda Peloquin
            Why indeed? If I were urber-suspicious, I d think that it had something to do with the PBS running of the program on the Mormons and the Italian government
            Message 5 of 14 , Mar 11, 2008
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              Why indeed?  If I were urber-suspicious, I'd think that it had something to do with the PBS running of the program on the Mormons and the Italian government objecting to the films being out there since the information in them is used by Mormons to have their ancestors posthumously baptized into the Mormon faith.  Somehow, though, I think it just a mundane coincidence that PBS stations around here ran the Mormon program at least 4 times a couple of weeks back that I remember. 

              That's not to say that there haven't been some groups that have objected to having their people recorded for posterity as Mormons.  People of the Jewish faith took great exception to having their ancestors listed as "Mormon" and those people have been removed from the Mormon registers.  Now, only if a former member of the Jewish faith submits their own personal ancestors, does a Jewish ancestor get baptized a Mormon.  When I saw that segment in the program I thought the speaker's attitude a bit pompus.  after all, those ancestors might be that Mormon member's ancestors BUT they are also the ancestors of other people who are of the Jewish faith and might object just as deeply to having their ancestors' faith changed and having someone 100 years from now think that these folks were always Mormon.

              I cringe every time the whole thing about the posthumous baptism gets widespread mention such as on the PBS program because I'm afraid that if too many people or religious groups got their backs ups and started complaining and demanding that their ancestors be struck from the registers of Mormons as was done with those of the Jewish faith, that the access to all the materials that we now enjoy will be denied those who are not Mormon.  My whole take on the thing is that if someone died a Lutheran, Catholic, Buddhist, Shinto, Episcopalian, Methodist or whatever and had considered themselves in life and had practiced that faith in their lifetime, then someone coming along 100 years later and baptizing them without their knowledge or consent really doesn't change a thing of what happened in the past and is pointless but if it puts someone else at ease within their chosen religion, I can't see much harm in it.


              But I do see a great deal of harm to people's research if access to the information in the films is denied.  I wonder if it's just the films on Itri or all the Italian films?

              Linda


              marie saccoccio <saccocciom@...> wrote:
              I did some searching and there is a vault outside of Salt Lake City where these are kept.  It actually is a whole in the side of a mountain to protect them.  Looks kind of space age!!!  When you go to Salt Lake City you can view them but you have to order them before hand.  It says that some are chosen for safekeeping.  I bet there is more to this than meets the eye!!  Why Itri of all places?? 
               
              Marie  

              Linda Peloquin <miyukichan0987@ yahoo.com> wrote:
              I think so...I went in one day when Verna was pulling films and I asked her about what she was doing and she showed me a list that had come from Salt Lake that our director wanted the volunteers to pull.  U know what a stickler he seems to be.  I'm afraid to ask and bring attention to the films...I wish there were some way we could spirit them out of there and have bootlegs made...I'd definitely want to share the cost especially if the alternative is having all that information locked away where we can't see it any more.

              Linda

              Jason Soscia <jsoscia3@yahoo. com> wrote:
              Can they really recall them back to Salt Lake?  I paid for most of those Itri films to be kept there indefinitely.

              miyukichan0987 <miyukichan0987@ yahoo.com> wrote:
              I noticed while composing a response to our newest member, Martine,
              that quite a few of the films for Itri now say "VAULT INTL Film"
              rather than "FHL INTL Film'.

              I do know that under certain circumstances, films that were previously
              available to research, suddenly become restricted for reasons no one
              aka the volunteers at my FHC has been able to tell me because they
              don't know either. They just get notices from Salt Lake telling them
              to pull the films and return them to the FHL.

              If these films that are now "Vault" are to be restricted it would be a
              major blow to all of us trying to research our ancestors in Itri! It
              has been frustrating enough for me that I can only research the period
              between 1809 -1865 but now to lose a major portion of the films of
              that period would be an insurmountable research tragedy!

              15 of the 26 films of records for Itri are now designated "Vault". I
              called my FHC to see if that means the records are no longer available
              but the volunteer did not know what "Vault" meant with respect to
              films already on loan. So far, the Itrani films at the Warwick, RI
              FHC that are on "Indefinite" loan and which constitute nearly a
              complete set of all the 26 films available, all seem to still be there.

              However, since I don't know if they will at some point in the near
              future be ordered pulled from the files and sent back to Salt Lake,
              I'm going to start living at the FHC because I am far from done with
              searching through those films.

              Can anyone tell the rest of us if "Vault" means that we are about to
              lose access to over 50% of the available films on Itri or not??

              Linda



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              Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.



              Marie Elena Saccoccio

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            • marie saccoccio
              Linda, I find this fascinating and distrubing as I really did not know about the posthumous baptisms. I am sure the Vatican would not approve of this. Also,
              Message 6 of 14 , Mar 11, 2008
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                Linda, I find this fascinating and distrubing as I really did not know about the posthumous baptisms.  I am sure the Vatican would not approve of this.  Also, when you say the films for Itri are now in the VAULT, do you mean they are no longer available for the online database that one pays for?? 
                 
                Don't kid yourself, the Mormons have grown very rich off their database.  I am sure that finances so many of their endeavors.  I would love to see the financials on ancestry.com.  Let me see if I can find anything on that subject.
                 
                Also, I cannot imagine the Mormons limiting that database based on objections, since they make so much money off it.  Exclsion of every group that objects would dent into their profit margin. 
                 
                Marie  

                Linda Peloquin <miyukichan0987@...> wrote:
                Why indeed?  If I were urber-suspicious, I'd think that it had something to do with the PBS running of the program on the Mormons and the Italian government objecting to the films being out there since the information in them is used by Mormons to have their ancestors posthumously baptized into the Mormon faith.  Somehow, though, I think it just a mundane coincidence that PBS stations around here ran the Mormon program at least 4 times a couple of weeks back that I remember. 

                That's not to say that there haven't been some groups that have objected to having their people recorded for posterity as Mormons.  People of the Jewish faith took great exception to having their ancestors listed as "Mormon" and those people have been removed from the Mormon registers.  Now, only if a former member of the Jewish faith submits their own personal ancestors, does a Jewish ancestor get baptized a Mormon.  When I saw that segment in the program I thought the speaker's attitude a bit pompus.  after all, those ancestors might be that Mormon member's ancestors BUT they are also the ancestors of other people who are of the Jewish faith and might object just as deeply to having their ancestors' faith changed and having someone 100 years from now think that these folks were always Mormon.

                I cringe every time the whole thing about the posthumous baptism gets widespread mention such as on the PBS program because I'm afraid that if too many people or religious groups got their backs ups and started complaining and demanding that their ancestors be struck from the registers of Mormons as was done with those of the Jewish faith, that the access to all the materials that we now enjoy will be denied those who are not Mormon.  My whole take on the thing is that if someone died a Lutheran, Catholic, Buddhist, Shinto, Episcopalian, Methodist or whatever and had considered themselves in life and had practiced that faith in their lifetime, then someone coming along 100 years later and baptizing them without their knowledge or consent really doesn't change a thing of what happened in the past and is pointless but if it puts someone else at ease within their chosen religion, I can't see much harm in it.


                But I do see a great deal of harm to people's research if access to the information in the films is denied.  I wonder if it's just the films on Itri or all the Italian films?

                Linda


                marie saccoccio <saccocciom@yahoo. com> wrote:
                I did some searching and there is a vault outside of Salt Lake City where these are kept.  It actually is a whole in the side of a mountain to protect them.  Looks kind of space age!!!  When you go to Salt Lake City you can view them but you have to order them before hand.  It says that some are chosen for safekeeping.  I bet there is more to this than meets the eye!!  Why Itri of all places?? 
                 
                Marie  

                Linda Peloquin <miyukichan0987@ yahoo.com> wrote:
                I think so...I went in one day when Verna was pulling films and I asked her about what she was doing and she showed me a list that had come from Salt Lake that our director wanted the volunteers to pull.  U know what a stickler he seems to be.  I'm afraid to ask and bring attention to the films...I wish there were some way we could spirit them out of there and have bootlegs made...I'd definitely want to share the cost especially if the alternative is having all that information locked away where we can't see it any more.

                Linda

                Jason Soscia <jsoscia3@yahoo. com> wrote:
                Can they really recall them back to Salt Lake?  I paid for most of those Itri films to be kept there indefinitely.

                miyukichan0987 <miyukichan0987@ yahoo.com> wrote:
                I noticed while composing a response to our newest member, Martine,
                that quite a few of the films for Itri now say "VAULT INTL Film"
                rather than "FHL INTL Film'.

                I do know that under certain circumstances, films that were previously
                available to research, suddenly become restricted for reasons no one
                aka the volunteers at my FHC has been able to tell me because they
                don't know either. They just get notices from Salt Lake telling them
                to pull the films and return them to the FHL.

                If these films that are now "Vault" are to be restricted it would be a
                major blow to all of us trying to research our ancestors in Itri! It
                has been frustrating enough for me that I can only research the period
                between 1809 -1865 but now to lose a major portion of the films of
                that period would be an insurmountable research tragedy!

                15 of the 26 films of records for Itri are now designated "Vault". I
                called my FHC to see if that means the records are no longer available
                but the volunteer did not know what "Vault" meant with respect to
                films already on loan. So far, the Itrani films at the Warwick, RI
                FHC that are on "Indefinite" loan and which constitute nearly a
                complete set of all the 26 films available, all seem to still be there.

                However, since I don't know if they will at some point in the near
                future be ordered pulled from the files and sent back to Salt Lake,
                I'm going to start living at the FHC because I am far from done with
                searching through those films.

                Can anyone tell the rest of us if "Vault" means that we are about to
                lose access to over 50% of the available films on Itri or not??

                Linda



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                Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.



                Marie Elena Saccoccio

                Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.


                Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.



                Marie Elena Saccoccio


                Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

              • Linda Peloquin
                Well, I know before I d be likely to spend the money on a trip to Salt Lake that I d probably save that and put it towards a trip to Itri so that s not going
                Message 7 of 14 , Mar 11, 2008
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                  Well, I know before I'd be likely to spend the money on a trip to Salt Lake that I'd probably save that and put it towards a trip to Itri so that's not going to work on me, at any rate. Going to Venice as I did and not having but a few shakey phrases in Italian memorized is one thing...everyone there seemed to speak English as well as a couple of other languages beyond Italian; a marvel to someone like me who struggles with trying to learn another language....but going to little Itri with no Italian would be entirely different.  Before any trip to the ancestral village, I've got to somehow learn some basic Italian beyond those words that filtered down to my generation and used to get us in mega trouble with the adults if we were caught using them as kids :-)

                  The whole set of numbers for the Itri films is:
                  Registri dello stato civile, 1809-1865  Itri (Latina). Ufficio dello stato civile

                  Nati 1809, 1811-1813, 1817, 1820-1824 (28 giugno)    FHL INTL Film  1169206 Items 3-5
                  Nati (28 giugno) 1824-1831  # 1169207  VAULT INTL Film  1169207
                  Nati 1832-1839   VAULT INTL Film  1169208
                  Nati 1840-1847 (26 mar.) FHL INTL Film 1169209
                  Nati (26 mar.) 1847-1854 FHL INTL Film 1169210
                  Nati 1855-1865     FHL INTL Film 1169211
                  Matrimoni 1809-1812 FHL INTL Film 1173753 Item 19
                  Matrimoni 1817; Morti 1813, nati 1817; Matrimoni 1818-ag. 1840     FHL INTL Film 1173754
                  Matrimoni ag. 1840-1861 FHL INTL Film 1173755
                  Morti 1809-1812, 1817-ag. 1827     FHL INTL Film 1178870 Items 9-12
                  Morti ag. 1827-magg. 1846 VAULT INTL Film 1178871
                  Morti magg. 1846-1855, 1857-1861 VAULT INTL Film 1178872 Items 1-13
                  Processetti 1817-1819     VAULT INTL Film 1424265 Items 3-4
                  Processetti 1819-1824     VAULT INTL Film 1424266
                  Processetti 1823-1829     VAULT INTL Film 1424267
                  Processetti 1828-1833     VAULT INTL Film 1424268
                  Processetti 1834-1837     VAULT INTL Film 1424269
                  Processetti 1836-1842     VAULT INTL Film 1424270
                  Processetti 1840-1846     VAULT INTL Film 1424271
                  Processetti 1845-1850     VAULT INTL Film 1424272
                  Processetti 1850-1852     VAULT INTL Film 1424273
                  Processetti 1851-1856     VAULT INTL Film 1424274
                  Processetti 1855-1858     VAULT INTL Film 1424275
                  Processetti 1857-1861 FHL INTL Film 1424276
                  Processetti 1861 FHL INTL Film 1424277 Item 1
                  Diversi 1812-1860 FHL INTL Film 1037931 Items 15-23

                  I'm not sure what is going on but when I compared this list above to the printout I made over the weekend, there are now fewer of the regular BMD films on "Vault" and most of the Processetti on "Vault". 

                  Still 15 films but some different from the ones that were "vault" this weekend.  I'm glad to see the as lot of the BMD ones back to just the regular designation but distressed to see the early Processetti films have become vault.  I was able to get back just a spot further thanks to the Processetti and firm up some links to the catasto so I'm not happy to see these going over to "Vault".  Looks like a couple of my films that I have on "indefinite " loan may be going back but I hope not.  I'd better grab the two latest Processetti and look at those before they too are unavailable to me.

                  Either way, it's been months since I made time to go into my FHC and look at the Itri films, most of which Jason had put on "indefinite", but I think I'm going to start making it a point to get in there regularly and get everything I can out of the films.  This whole thing has really rattled me and shaken me from my complacency.  I just hope that since this list has changed since Saturday that some of the films that were "vault" and are not now, weren't pulled from the files and already shipped back.

                  Linda


                  marie saccoccio <saccocciom@...> wrote:
                  You know this could be a ploy to get folks to travel to Salt Lake City.  Since there are very few records outside of this collection on Itri, they may have been chosen for precisely this reason!! 
                   
                  I have a Latter Day Center right down the street from me.  I have never crossed the threshold.  Perhaps I should.  what precisely should I ask for??
                   
                  Marie

                  Linda Peloquin <miyukichan0987@ yahoo.com> wrote:
                  I think so...I went in one day when Verna was pulling films and I asked her about what she was doing and she showed me a list that had come from Salt Lake that our director wanted the volunteers to pull.  U know what a stickler he seems to be.  I'm afraid to ask and bring attention to the films...I wish there were some way we could spirit them out of there and have bootlegs made...I'd definitely want to share the cost especially if the alternative is having all that information locked away where we can't see it any more.

                  Linda

                  Jason Soscia <jsoscia3@yahoo. com> wrote:
                  Can they really recall them back to Salt Lake?  I paid for most of those Itri films to be kept there indefinitely.

                  miyukichan0987 <miyukichan0987@ yahoo.com> wrote:
                  I noticed while composing a response to our newest member, Martine,
                  that quite a few of the films for Itri now say "VAULT INTL Film"
                  rather than "FHL INTL Film'.

                  I do know that under certain circumstances, films that were previously
                  available to research, suddenly become restricted for reasons no one
                  aka the volunteers at my FHC has been able to tell me because they
                  don't know either. They just get notices from Salt Lake telling them
                  to pull the films and return them to the FHL.

                  If these films that are now "Vault" are to be restricted it would be a
                  major blow to all of us trying to research our ancestors in Itri! It
                  has been frustrating enough for me that I can only research the period
                  between 1809 -1865 but now to lose a major portion of the films of
                  that period would be an insurmountable research tragedy!

                  15 of the 26 films of records for Itri are now designated "Vault". I
                  called my FHC to see if that means the records are no longer available
                  but the volunteer did not know what "Vault" meant with respect to
                  films already on loan. So far, the Itrani films at the Warwick, RI
                  FHC that are on "Indefinite" loan and which constitute nearly a
                  complete set of all the 26 films available, all seem to still be there.

                  However, since I don't know if they will at some point in the near
                  future be ordered pulled from the files and sent back to Salt Lake,
                  I'm going to start living at the FHC because I am far from done with
                  searching through those films.

                  Can anyone tell the rest of us if "Vault" means that we are about to
                  lose access to over 50% of the available films on Itri or not??

                  Linda



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                • Linda Peloquin
                  Marie, I am sure the Vatican would not approve of this. I don t think there s a problem there because of all the Catholic names I ve run on
                  Message 8 of 14 , Mar 11, 2008
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Marie,

                    "I am sure the Vatican would not approve of this."  I don't think there's a problem there because of all the Catholic names I've run on familysearch.org, the only time any of them have come up has been in connection with an IGI (International Genealogical Index) take directly from primary source records.  Although I'm sure it happens that people who were Catholic have converted to the Mormon faith and there are Catholic ancestors who are also now Mormons, apparently none of them share ancestors with me or my husband.   The returns on the results page would say "member supplied" somewhere on the individual page for the person.  I just don't think Catholics have flocked to the Mormon religion in the numbers that other faiths have. 

                    For example, if you run my great-grandfather, Luigi Cannella, this is what you get for a result:  LUIGI CANNELLA - International Genealogical Index / SE
                    Gender: Male Marriage: 08 SEP 1849 Itri, Latina, Italy. 

                    When you click on his name the page you get tells you basically the same thing but because it is for a marriage so you also get: Spouse:  MARIA LORETA CARDI    Marriage:  08 SEP 1849   Itri, Latina, Italy

                    And at the bottom, the source of this information which is one of the Itri films of primary source records: Batch No.:  M840603    Dates: 1840 - 1861    Source Call No.: 1173755    Type:  Film; which is this film -> Matrimoni ag. 1840-1861 FHL INTL Film 1173755.

                    As far as I'm concerned, if someone was born Catholic, lived life as a Catholic and died in the Catholic faith or any other faith for that matter, something someone does many decades farther down the road isn't going to change that fact that they were Catholics.  It's after the fact and it's not going to change a single thing that has transpired in the past.  I look at it rather like having dual citizenship or two passports...one for the US and one for Italy for those folks who qualify.

                    " no longer available for the on line database that one pays for??"   I guess you're talking about the Generations Network sites here?   I had asked one of the volunteers at my FHC whom I knew was a Mormon if the Mormon's owned what Ancestry and it's sister sites' parent company was then known as "My Family.com" and was told "No" and that the FHC's had to pay for their access to Ancestry which she thought was unfair given that most of the content on Ancestry & company was materials that the Mormons had given them access to.

                    At any rate, none of the Itri material has ever been available through the pay sites of Ancestry or Genealogy.  I wish it were since it would be much more convenient.  I've gotten tons more research done on Hubby's French Canadian ancestors now that Ancestry has the Drouin* Collection on line.  *The Drouin Institute of Montréal when out in the 1930-1940's and filmed every repertoire aka parish register that was in existence at the time for the whole of Quebec.  The repertoire were, up into the 20th century, the official vital records of Quebec so with the Drouin films, it is possible to trace one's Fre-Can ancestors back to the beginning of New France and the first ancestors to come over from France in the 1600's.   I have often times wished that there existed something similar for Itri and Italy.

                    "Also, I cannot imagine the Mormons limiting that database based on objections,...."  familysearch.org, where one would find member supplied information thus indicating that someone descended from that person or persons had become a Mormon and submitted their ancestors, is free.   what the jewish people were objecting to where the member supplied information and registration of Jewish ancestors as Mormons.  Just as you won't find too many Catholic ancestors in the Mormon database, you won't find many Jewish ancestors. 

                    Look around and you can probably find the program "The Mormons" on a PBS DVD or maybe even your local library might have it in their collection.  It takes a lot of the mystery out of the Mormon faith which so many of us rely on for our research materials but know so little about.  This is from the PBS Store http://www.shoppbs.org/ - The Mormons Single DVD  Item No. MORM601 - Description:
                    The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is one of America's fastest growing religions, and its influence circles the globe. Yet the birth of Mormonism and its history is one of America's great neglected narratives. This four-hour documentary brings together FRONTLINE and AMERICAN EXPERIENCE in their first co-production to provide a searching portrait of this fascinating but often misunderstood religion.



                    Ancestry databases are records, periodicals, rare books, family genealogies, directories, maps, etc most of which would be otherwise inaccessible to most people by virtue of geographic separation from where the ancestors lived and the time constraints of trying to get in where the materials are during the hours a repository is open.  For example, what Ancestry has are numerous databases such as the Drouin, US, English and Canadian censuses, digitized forms of publications such as the rare early 5 volume 20th century publication "Staten Island and Its People : A History, 1609-1929" or Arnold's "Vital Record of Rhode Island, 1636-1850, First Series, Births, Marriages and Deaths : a Family Register for the People".

                    An Ancestry subscription can it's place in one's research.  As much as I love the American French Genealogical Society up in Woonsocket, it's having the Drouin available to me 24/7 through my Ancestry subscription that has gotten me where I am with the Fre-Can ancestors.  Ancestry can't replace the AFGS but it certainly has gotten me light years ahead in that line of research now that I don't have to wait to get time to get into the AFGS when they're open and when I do get in, I can make better use of the trip expanding upon what are know known and confirmed ancestors.

                    As far as what "Vault" means, I'm still trying to find that out without bringing attention to the Itri films at my FHC that are now listed as "Vault" on the familysearch.org web site.  I was pleased to see when I did my earlier reply that films that had been "Vault" on the weekend had changed in designation but still none to happy to see that nearly all the Processetti are now "Vault".  However, it's a whole lot easier to live without access to the Processetti than without the BMD films.

                    Linda


                    marie saccoccio <saccocciom@...> wrote:
                    Linda, I find this fascinating and distrubing as I really did not know about the posthumous baptisms.  I am sure the Vatican would not approve of this.  Also, when you say the films for Itri are now in the VAULT, do you mean they are no longer available for the online database that one pays for?? 
                     
                    Don't kid yourself, the Mormons have grown very rich off their database.  I am sure that finances so many of their endeavors.  I would love to see the financials on ancestry.com.  Let me see if I can find anything on that subject.
                     
                    Also, I cannot imagine the Mormons limiting that database based on objections, since they make so much money off it.  Exclsion of every group that objects would dent into their profit margin. 
                     
                    Marie  

                    Linda Peloquin <miyukichan0987@ yahoo.com> wrote:
                    Why indeed?  If I were urber-suspicious, I'd think that it had something to do with the PBS running of the program on the Mormons and the Italian government objecting to the films being out there since the information in them is used by Mormons to have their ancestors posthumously baptized into the Mormon faith.  Somehow, though, I think it just a mundane coincidence that PBS stations around here ran the Mormon program at least 4 times a couple of weeks back that I remember. 

                    That's not to say that there haven't been some groups that have objected to having their people recorded for posterity as Mormons.  People of the Jewish faith took great exception to having their ancestors listed as "Mormon" and those people have been removed from the Mormon registers.  Now, only if a former member of the Jewish faith submits their own personal ancestors, does a Jewish ancestor get baptized a Mormon.  When I saw that segment in the program I thought the speaker's attitude a bit pompus.  after all, those ancestors might be that Mormon member's ancestors BUT they are also the ancestors of other people who are of the Jewish faith and might object just as deeply to having their ancestors' faith changed and having someone 100 years from now think that these folks were always Mormon.

                    I cringe every time the whole thing about the posthumous baptism gets widespread mention such as on the PBS program because I'm afraid that if too many people or religious groups got their backs ups and started complaining and demanding that their ancestors be struck from the registers of Mormons as was done with those of the Jewish faith, that the access to all the materials that we now enjoy will be denied those who are not Mormon.  My whole take on the thing is that if someone died a Lutheran, Catholic, Buddhist, Shinto, Episcopalian, Methodist or whatever and had considered themselves in life and had practiced that faith in their lifetime, then someone coming along 100 years later and baptizing them without their knowledge or consent really doesn't change a thing of what happened in the past and is pointless but if it puts someone else at ease within their chosen religion, I can't see much harm in it.


                    But I do see a great deal of harm to people's research if access to the information in the films is denied.  I wonder if it's just the films on Itri or all the Italian films?

                    Linda


                    marie saccoccio <saccocciom@yahoo. com> wrote:
                    I did some searching and there is a vault outside of Salt Lake City where these are kept.  It actually is a whole in the side of a mountain to protect them.  Looks kind of space age!!!  When you go to Salt Lake City you can view them but you have to order them before hand.  It says that some are chosen for safekeeping.  I bet there is more to this than meets the eye!!  Why Itri of all places?? 
                     
                    Marie  

                    Linda Peloquin <miyukichan0987@ yahoo.com> wrote:
                    I think so...I went in one day when Verna was pulling films and I asked her about what she was doing and she showed me a list that had come from Salt Lake that our director wanted the volunteers to pull.  U know what a stickler he seems to be.  I'm afraid to ask and bring attention to the films...I wish there were some way we could spirit them out of there and have bootlegs made...I'd definitely want to share the cost especially if the alternative is having all that information locked away where we can't see it any more.

                    Linda

                    Jason Soscia <jsoscia3@yahoo. com> wrote:
                    Can they really recall them back to Salt Lake?  I paid for most of those Itri films to be kept there indefinitely.

                    miyukichan0987 <miyukichan0987@ yahoo.com> wrote:
                    I noticed while composing a response to our newest member, Martine,
                    that quite a few of the films for Itri now say "VAULT INTL Film"
                    rather than "FHL INTL Film'.

                    I do know that under certain circumstances, films that were previously
                    available to research, suddenly become restricted for reasons no one
                    aka the volunteers at my FHC has been able to tell me because they
                    don't know either. They just get notices from Salt Lake telling them
                    to pull the films and return them to the FHL.

                    If these films that are now "Vault" are to be restricted it would be a
                    major blow to all of us trying to research our ancestors in Itri! It
                    has been frustrating enough for me that I can only research the period
                    between 1809 -1865 but now to lose a major portion of the films of
                    that period would be an insurmountable research tragedy!

                    15 of the 26 films of records for Itri are now designated "Vault". I
                    called my FHC to see if that means the records are no longer available
                    but the volunteer did not know what "Vault" meant with respect to
                    films already on loan. So far, the Itrani films at the Warwick, RI
                    FHC that are on "Indefinite" loan and which constitute nearly a
                    complete set of all the 26 films available, all seem to still be there.

                    However, since I don't know if they will at some point in the near
                    future be ordered pulled from the files and sent back to Salt Lake,
                    I'm going to start living at the FHC because I am far from done with
                    searching through those films.

                    Can anyone tell the rest of us if "Vault" means that we are about to
                    lose access to over 50% of the available films on Itri or not??

                    Linda



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                    Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.



                    Marie Elena Saccoccio

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                    Marie Elena Saccoccio

                    Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.


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                  • marie saccoccio
                    LInda, I see that there has been a dispute between Ancestry and the Mormons. I now have no idea who really owns Ancestry. Perhaps SEC filings would share
                    Message 9 of 14 , Mar 11, 2008
                    • 0 Attachment
                      LInda, I see that there has been a dispute between Ancestry and "the Mormons."  I now have no idea who really owns Ancestry.  Perhaps SEC filings would share some light on this. I am curious.
                       
                      I sort of watched the PBS special on Mormons when it was on TV in Boston.  Mitt Romney was our governor, then presidential candidate so it was good to see.  I would like to watch it again though as I missed some parts.
                       
                      Marie
                       
                       
                       
                      Linda Peloquin <miyukichan0987@...> wrote:
                      Marie,

                      "I am sure the Vatican would not approve of this."  I don't think there's a problem there because of all the Catholic names I've run on familysearch. org, the only time any of them have come up has been in connection with an IGI (International Genealogical Index) take directly from primary source records.  Although I'm sure it happens that people who were Catholic have converted to the Mormon faith and there are Catholic ancestors who are also now Mormons, apparently none of them share ancestors with me or my husband.   The returns on the results page would say "member supplied" somewhere on the individual page for the person.  I just don't think Catholics have flocked to the Mormon religion in the numbers that other faiths have. 

                      For example, if you run my great-grandfather, Luigi Cannella, this is what you get for a result:  LUIGI CANNELLA - International Genealogical Index / SE
                      Gender: Male Marriage: 08 SEP 1849 Itri, Latina, Italy. 

                      When you click on his name the page you get tells you basically the same thing but because it is for a marriage so you also get: Spouse:  MARIA LORETA CARDI    Marriage:  08 SEP 1849   Itri, Latina, Italy

                      And at the bottom, the source of this information which is one of the Itri films of primary source records: Batch No.:  M840603    Dates: 1840 - 1861    Source Call No.: 1173755    Type:  Film; which is this film -> Matrimoni ag. 1840-1861 FHL INTL Film 1173755.

                      As far as I'm concerned, if someone was born Catholic, lived life as a Catholic and died in the Catholic faith or any other faith for that matter, something someone does many decades farther down the road isn't going to change that fact that they were Catholics.  It's after the fact and it's not going to change a single thing that has transpired in the past.  I look at it rather like having dual citizenship or two passports... one for the US and one for Italy for those folks who qualify.

                      " no longer available for the on line database that one pays for??"   I guess you're talking about the Generations Network sites here?   I had asked one of the volunteers at my FHC whom I knew was a Mormon if the Mormon's owned what Ancestry and it's sister sites' parent company was then known as "My Family.com" and was told "No" and that the FHC's had to pay for their access to Ancestry which she thought was unfair given that most of the content on Ancestry & company was materials that the Mormons had given them access to.

                      At any rate, none of the Itri material has ever been available through the pay sites of Ancestry or Genealogy.  I wish it were since it would be much more convenient.  I've gotten tons more research done on Hubby's French Canadian ancestors now that Ancestry has the Drouin* Collection on line.  *The Drouin Institute of Montréal when out in the 1930-1940's and filmed every repertoire aka parish register that was in existence at the time for the whole of Quebec.  The repertoire were, up into the 20th century, the official vital records of Quebec so with the Drouin films, it is possible to trace one's Fre-Can ancestors back to the beginning of New France and the first ancestors to come over from France in the 1600's.   I have often times wished that there existed something similar for Itri and Italy.

                      "Also, I cannot imagine the Mormons limiting that database based on objections,. ..."  familysearch. org, where one would find member supplied information thus indicating that someone descended from that person or persons had become a Mormon and submitted their ancestors, is free.   what the jewish people were objecting to where the member supplied information and registration of Jewish ancestors as Mormons.  Just as you won't find too many Catholic ancestors in the Mormon database, you won't find many Jewish ancestors. 

                      Look around and you can probably find the program "The Mormons" on a PBS DVD or maybe even your local library might have it in their collection.  It takes a lot of the mystery out of the Mormon faith which so many of us rely on for our research materials but know so little about.  This is from the PBS Store http://www.shoppbs. org/ - The Mormons Single DVD  Item No. MORM601 - Description:
                      The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is one of America's fastest growing religions, and its influence circles the globe. Yet the birth of Mormonism and its history is one of America's great neglected narratives. This four-hour documentary brings together FRONTLINE and AMERICAN EXPERIENCE in their first co-production to provide a searching portrait of this fascinating but often misunderstood religion.



                      Ancestry databases are records, periodicals, rare books, family genealogies, directories, maps, etc most of which would be otherwise inaccessible to most people by virtue of geographic separation from where the ancestors lived and the time constraints of trying to get in where the materials are during the hours a repository is open.  For example, what Ancestry has are numerous databases such as the Drouin, US, English and Canadian censuses, digitized forms of publications such as the rare early 5 volume 20th century publication "Staten Island and Its People : A History, 1609-1929" or Arnold's "Vital Record of Rhode Island, 1636-1850, First Series, Births, Marriages and Deaths : a Family Register for the People".

                      An Ancestry subscription can it's place in one's research.  As much as I love the American French Genealogical Society up in Woonsocket, it's having the Drouin available to me 24/7 through my Ancestry subscription that has gotten me where I am with the Fre-Can ancestors.  Ancestry can't replace the AFGS but it certainly has gotten me light years ahead in that line of research now that I don't have to wait to get time to get into the AFGS when they're open and when I do get in, I can make better use of the trip expanding upon what are know known and confirmed ancestors.

                      As far as what "Vault" means, I'm still trying to find that out without bringing attention to the Itri films at my FHC that are now listed as "Vault" on the familysearch. org web site.  I was pleased to see when I did my earlier reply that films that had been "Vault" on the weekend had changed in designation but still none to happy to see that nearly all the Processetti are now "Vault".  However, it's a whole lot easier to live without access to the Processetti than without the BMD films.

                      Linda


                      marie saccoccio <saccocciom@yahoo. com> wrote:
                      Linda, I find this fascinating and distrubing as I really did not know about the posthumous baptisms.  I am sure the Vatican would not approve of this.  Also, when you say the films for Itri are now in the VAULT, do you mean they are no longer available for the online database that one pays for?? 
                       
                      Don't kid yourself, the Mormons have grown very rich off their database.  I am sure that finances so many of their endeavors.  I would love to see the financials on ancestry.com.  Let me see if I can find anything on that subject.
                       
                      Also, I cannot imagine the Mormons limiting that database based on objections, since they make so much money off it.  Exclsion of every group that objects would dent into their profit margin. 
                       
                      Marie  

                      Linda Peloquin <miyukichan0987@ yahoo.com> wrote:
                      Why indeed?  If I were urber-suspicious, I'd think that it had something to do with the PBS running of the program on the Mormons and the Italian government objecting to the films being out there since the information in them is used by Mormons to have their ancestors posthumously baptized into the Mormon faith.  Somehow, though, I think it just a mundane coincidence that PBS stations around here ran the Mormon program at least 4 times a couple of weeks back that I remember. 

                      That's not to say that there haven't been some groups that have objected to having their people recorded for posterity as Mormons.  People of the Jewish faith took great exception to having their ancestors listed as "Mormon" and those people have been removed from the Mormon registers.  Now, only if a former member of the Jewish faith submits their own personal ancestors, does a Jewish ancestor get baptized a Mormon.  When I saw that segment in the program I thought the speaker's attitude a bit pompus.  after all, those ancestors might be that Mormon member's ancestors BUT they are also the ancestors of other people who are of the Jewish faith and might object just as deeply to having their ancestors' faith changed and having someone 100 years from now think that these folks were always Mormon.

                      I cringe every time the whole thing about the posthumous baptism gets widespread mention such as on the PBS program because I'm afraid that if too many people or religious groups got their backs ups and started complaining and demanding that their ancestors be struck from the registers of Mormons as was done with those of the Jewish faith, that the access to all the materials that we now enjoy will be denied those who are not Mormon.  My whole take on the thing is that if someone died a Lutheran, Catholic, Buddhist, Shinto, Episcopalian, Methodist or whatever and had considered themselves in life and had practiced that faith in their lifetime, then someone coming along 100 years later and baptizing them without their knowledge or consent really doesn't change a thing of what happened in the past and is pointless but if it puts someone else at ease within their chosen religion, I can't see much harm in it.


                      But I do see a great deal of harm to people's research if access to the information in the films is denied.  I wonder if it's just the films on Itri or all the Italian films?

                      Linda


                      marie saccoccio <saccocciom@yahoo. com> wrote:
                      I did some searching and there is a vault outside of Salt Lake City where these are kept.  It actually is a whole in the side of a mountain to protect them.  Looks kind of space age!!!  When you go to Salt Lake City you can view them but you have to order them before hand.  It says that some are chosen for safekeeping.  I bet there is more to this than meets the eye!!  Why Itri of all places?? 
                       
                      Marie  

                      Linda Peloquin <miyukichan0987@ yahoo.com> wrote:
                      I think so...I went in one day when Verna was pulling films and I asked her about what she was doing and she showed me a list that had come from Salt Lake that our director wanted the volunteers to pull.  U know what a stickler he seems to be.  I'm afraid to ask and bring attention to the films...I wish there were some way we could spirit them out of there and have bootlegs made...I'd definitely want to share the cost especially if the alternative is having all that information locked away where we can't see it any more.

                      Linda

                      Jason Soscia <jsoscia3@yahoo. com> wrote:
                      Can they really recall them back to Salt Lake?  I paid for most of those Itri films to be kept there indefinitely.

                      miyukichan0987 <miyukichan0987@ yahoo.com> wrote:
                      I noticed while composing a response to our newest member, Martine,
                      that quite a few of the films for Itri now say "VAULT INTL Film"
                      rather than "FHL INTL Film'.

                      I do know that under certain circumstances, films that were previously
                      available to research, suddenly become restricted for reasons no one
                      aka the volunteers at my FHC has been able to tell me because they
                      don't know either. They just get notices from Salt Lake telling them
                      to pull the films and return them to the FHL.

                      If these films that are now "Vault" are to be restricted it would be a
                      major blow to all of us trying to research our ancestors in Itri! It
                      has been frustrating enough for me that I can only research the period
                      between 1809 -1865 but now to lose a major portion of the films of
                      that period would be an insurmountable research tragedy!

                      15 of the 26 films of records for Itri are now designated "Vault". I
                      called my FHC to see if that means the records are no longer available
                      but the volunteer did not know what "Vault" meant with respect to
                      films already on loan. So far, the Itrani films at the Warwick, RI
                      FHC that are on "Indefinite" loan and which constitute nearly a
                      complete set of all the 26 films available, all seem to still be there.

                      However, since I don't know if they will at some point in the near
                      future be ordered pulled from the files and sent back to Salt Lake,
                      I'm going to start living at the FHC because I am far from done with
                      searching through those films.

                      Can anyone tell the rest of us if "Vault" means that we are about to
                      lose access to over 50% of the available films on Itri or not??

                      Linda



                      Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.


                      Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.



                      Marie Elena Saccoccio

                      Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.


                      Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.



                      Marie Elena Saccoccio

                      Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.


                      Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.



                      Marie Elena Saccoccio


                      Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

                    • Linda Peloquin
                      Marie, It was run several times just a couple of weeks ago...guess you missed it. Both WGBH, Boston and WSBE, RI ran it a couple of times each. On those days
                      Message 10 of 14 , Mar 11, 2008
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Marie,

                        It was run several times just a couple of weeks ago...guess you missed it.  Both WGBH, Boston and WSBE, RI ran it a couple of times each.  On those days they ran it during normal evening hours & then repeated it during the red eye hours.  I know 'cause I zonked trying to stay awake watching it, woke up and it was still on so I finished watching the program thinking I'd only missed a few minutes.  Only later did I realize that when I had woken-up , what I woke-up during was the second showing of the night during the red eye hours.  I was mightily disoriented that night after my two installment sleep delayed viewing of the show and needed a caffeine IV the next day!!!

                        Linda

                        marie saccoccio <saccocciom@...> wrote:
                        LInda, I see that there has been a dispute between Ancestry and "the Mormons."  I now have no idea who really owns Ancestry.  Perhaps SEC filings would share some light on this. I am curious.
                         
                        I sort of watched the PBS special on Mormons when it was on TV in Boston.  Mitt Romney was our governor, then presidential candidate so it was good to see.  I would like to watch it again though as I missed some parts.
                         
                        Marie
                         
                         
                         
                        Linda Peloquin <miyukichan0987@ yahoo.com> wrote:
                        Marie,

                        "I am sure the Vatican would not approve of this."  I don't think there's a problem there because of all the Catholic names I've run on familysearch. org, the only time any of them have come up has been in connection with an IGI (International Genealogical Index) take directly from primary source records.  Although I'm sure it happens that people who were Catholic have converted to the Mormon faith and there are Catholic ancestors who are also now Mormons, apparently none of them share ancestors with me or my husband.   The returns on the results page would say "member supplied" somewhere on the individual page for the person.  I just don't think Catholics have flocked to the Mormon religion in the numbers that other faiths have. 

                        For example, if you run my great-grandfather, Luigi Cannella, this is what you get for a result:  LUIGI CANNELLA - International Genealogical Index / SE
                        Gender: Male Marriage: 08 SEP 1849 Itri, Latina, Italy. 

                        When you click on his name the page you get tells you basically the same thing but because it is for a marriage so you also get: Spouse:  MARIA LORETA CARDI    Marriage:  08 SEP 1849   Itri, Latina, Italy

                        And at the bottom, the source of this information which is one of the Itri films of primary source records: Batch No.:  M840603    Dates: 1840 - 1861    Source Call No.: 1173755    Type:  Film; which is this film -> Matrimoni ag. 1840-1861 FHL INTL Film 1173755.

                        As far as I'm concerned, if someone was born Catholic, lived life as a Catholic and died in the Catholic faith or any other faith for that matter, something someone does many decades farther down the road isn't going to change that fact that they were Catholics.  It's after the fact and it's not going to change a single thing that has transpired in the past.  I look at it rather like having dual citizenship or two passports... one for the US and one for Italy for those folks who qualify.

                        " no longer available for the on line database that one pays for??"   I guess you're talking about the Generations Network sites here?   I had asked one of the volunteers at my FHC whom I knew was a Mormon if the Mormon's owned what Ancestry and it's sister sites' parent company was then known as "My Family.com" and was told "No" and that the FHC's had to pay for their access to Ancestry which she thought was unfair given that most of the content on Ancestry & company was materials that the Mormons had given them access to.

                        At any rate, none of the Itri material has ever been available through the pay sites of Ancestry or Genealogy.  I wish it were since it would be much more convenient.  I've gotten tons more research done on Hubby's French Canadian ancestors now that Ancestry has the Drouin* Collection on line.  *The Drouin Institute of Montréal when out in the 1930-1940's and filmed every repertoire aka parish register that was in existence at the time for the whole of Quebec.  The repertoire were, up into the 20th century, the official vital records of Quebec so with the Drouin films, it is possible to trace one's Fre-Can ancestors back to the beginning of New France and the first ancestors to come over from France in the 1600's.   I have often times wished that there existed something similar for Itri and Italy.

                        "Also, I cannot imagine the Mormons limiting that database based on objections,. ..."  familysearch. org, where one would find member supplied information thus indicating that someone descended from that person or persons had become a Mormon and submitted their ancestors, is free.   what the jewish people were objecting to where the member supplied information and registration of Jewish ancestors as Mormons.  Just as you won't find too many Catholic ancestors in the Mormon database, you won't find many Jewish ancestors. 

                        Look around and you can probably find the program "The Mormons" on a PBS DVD or maybe even your local library might have it in their collection.  It takes a lot of the mystery out of the Mormon faith which so many of us rely on for our research materials but know so little about.  This is from the PBS Store http://www.shoppbs. org/ - The Mormons Single DVD  Item No. MORM601 - Description:
                        The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is one of America's fastest growing religions, and its influence circles the globe. Yet the birth of Mormonism and its history is one of America's great neglected narratives. This four-hour documentary brings together FRONTLINE and AMERICAN EXPERIENCE in their first co-production to provide a searching portrait of this fascinating but often misunderstood religion.



                        Ancestry databases are records, periodicals, rare books, family genealogies, directories, maps, etc most of which would be otherwise inaccessible to most people by virtue of geographic separation from where the ancestors lived and the time constraints of trying to get in where the materials are during the hours a repository is open.  For example, what Ancestry has are numerous databases such as the Drouin, US, English and Canadian censuses, digitized forms of publications such as the rare early 5 volume 20th century publication "Staten Island and Its People : A History, 1609-1929" or Arnold's "Vital Record of Rhode Island, 1636-1850, First Series, Births, Marriages and Deaths : a Family Register for the People".

                        An Ancestry subscription can it's place in one's research.  As much as I love the American French Genealogical Society up in Woonsocket, it's having the Drouin available to me 24/7 through my Ancestry subscription that has gotten me where I am with the Fre-Can ancestors.  Ancestry can't replace the AFGS but it certainly has gotten me light years ahead in that line of research now that I don't have to wait to get time to get into the AFGS when they're open and when I do get in, I can make better use of the trip expanding upon what are know known and confirmed ancestors.

                        As far as what "Vault" means, I'm still trying to find that out without bringing attention to the Itri films at my FHC that are now listed as "Vault" on the familysearch. org web site.  I was pleased to see when I did my earlier reply that films that had been "Vault" on the weekend had changed in designation but still none to happy to see that nearly all the Processetti are now "Vault".  However, it's a whole lot easier to live without access to the Processetti than without the BMD films.

                        Linda


                        marie saccoccio <saccocciom@yahoo. com> wrote:
                        Linda, I find this fascinating and distrubing as I really did not know about the posthumous baptisms.  I am sure the Vatican would not approve of this.  Also, when you say the films for Itri are now in the VAULT, do you mean they are no longer available for the online database that one pays for?? 
                         
                        Don't kid yourself, the Mormons have grown very rich off their database.  I am sure that finances so many of their endeavors.  I would love to see the financials on ancestry.com.  Let me see if I can find anything on that subject.
                         
                        Also, I cannot imagine the Mormons limiting that database based on objections, since they make so much money off it.  Exclsion of every group that objects would dent into their profit margin. 
                         
                        Marie  

                        Linda Peloquin <miyukichan0987@ yahoo.com> wrote:
                        Why indeed?  If I were urber-suspicious, I'd think that it had something to do with the PBS running of the program on the Mormons and the Italian government objecting to the films being out there since the information in them is used by Mormons to have their ancestors posthumously baptized into the Mormon faith.  Somehow, though, I think it just a mundane coincidence that PBS stations around here ran the Mormon program at least 4 times a couple of weeks back that I remember. 

                        That's not to say that there haven't been some groups that have objected to having their people recorded for posterity as Mormons.  People of the Jewish faith took great exception to having their ancestors listed as "Mormon" and those people have been removed from the Mormon registers.  Now, only if a former member of the Jewish faith submits their own personal ancestors, does a Jewish ancestor get baptized a Mormon.  When I saw that segment in the program I thought the speaker's attitude a bit pompus.  after all, those ancestors might be that Mormon member's ancestors BUT they are also the ancestors of other people who are of the Jewish faith and might object just as deeply to having their ancestors' faith changed and having someone 100 years from now think that these folks were always Mormon.

                        I cringe every time the whole thing about the posthumous baptism gets widespread mention such as on the PBS program because I'm afraid that if too many people or religious groups got their backs ups and started complaining and demanding that their ancestors be struck from the registers of Mormons as was done with those of the Jewish faith, that the access to all the materials that we now enjoy will be denied those who are not Mormon.  My whole take on the thing is that if someone died a Lutheran, Catholic, Buddhist, Shinto, Episcopalian, Methodist or whatever and had considered themselves in life and had practiced that faith in their lifetime, then someone coming along 100 years later and baptizing them without their knowledge or consent really doesn't change a thing of what happened in the past and is pointless but if it puts someone else at ease within their chosen religion, I can't see much harm in it.


                        But I do see a great deal of harm to people's research if access to the information in the films is denied.  I wonder if it's just the films on Itri or all the Italian films?

                        Linda


                        marie saccoccio <saccocciom@yahoo. com> wrote:
                        I did some searching and there is a vault outside of Salt Lake City where these are kept.  It actually is a whole in the side of a mountain to protect them.  Looks kind of space age!!!  When you go to Salt Lake City you can view them but you have to order them before hand.  It says that some are chosen for safekeeping.  I bet there is more to this than meets the eye!!  Why Itri of all places?? 
                         
                        Marie  

                        Linda Peloquin <miyukichan0987@ yahoo.com> wrote:
                        I think so...I went in one day when Verna was pulling films and I asked her about what she was doing and she showed me a list that had come from Salt Lake that our director wanted the volunteers to pull.  U know what a stickler he seems to be.  I'm afraid to ask and bring attention to the films...I wish there were some way we could spirit them out of there and have bootlegs made...I'd definitely want to share the cost especially if the alternative is having all that information locked away where we can't see it any more.

                        Linda

                        Jason Soscia <jsoscia3@yahoo. com> wrote:
                        Can they really recall them back to Salt Lake?  I paid for most of those Itri films to be kept there indefinitely.

                        miyukichan0987 <miyukichan0987@ yahoo.com> wrote:
                        I noticed while composing a response to our newest member, Martine,
                        that quite a few of the films for Itri now say "VAULT INTL Film"
                        rather than "FHL INTL Film'.

                        I do know that under certain circumstances, films that were previously
                        available to research, suddenly become restricted for reasons no one
                        aka the volunteers at my FHC has been able to tell me because they
                        don't know either. They just get notices from Salt Lake telling them
                        to pull the films and return them to the FHL.

                        If these films that are now "Vault" are to be restricted it would be a
                        major blow to all of us trying to research our ancestors in Itri! It
                        has been frustrating enough for me that I can only research the period
                        between 1809 -1865 but now to lose a major portion of the films of
                        that period would be an insurmountable research tragedy!

                        15 of the 26 films of records for Itri are now designated "Vault". I
                        called my FHC to see if that means the records are no longer available
                        but the volunteer did not know what "Vault" meant with respect to
                        films already on loan. So far, the Itrani films at the Warwick, RI
                        FHC that are on "Indefinite" loan and which constitute nearly a
                        complete set of all the 26 films available, all seem to still be there.

                        However, since I don't know if they will at some point in the near
                        future be ordered pulled from the files and sent back to Salt Lake,
                        I'm going to start living at the FHC because I am far from done with
                        searching through those films.

                        Can anyone tell the rest of us if "Vault" means that we are about to
                        lose access to over 50% of the available films on Itri or not??

                        Linda



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                      • marie saccoccio
                        LOL My recollection of it was that it was rather boring but informative. I should pay more attention next time. Linda Peloquin
                        Message 11 of 14 , Mar 11, 2008
                        • 0 Attachment
                          LOL  My recollection of it was that it was rather boring but informative.  I should pay more attention next time.   

                          Linda Peloquin <miyukichan0987@...> wrote:
                          Marie,

                          It was run several times just a couple of weeks ago...guess you missed it.  Both WGBH, Boston and WSBE, RI ran it a couple of times each.  On those days they ran it during normal evening hours & then repeated it during the red eye hours.  I know 'cause I zonked trying to stay awake watching it, woke up and it was still on so I finished watching the program thinking I'd only missed a few minutes.  Only later did I realize that when I had woken-up , what I woke-up during was the second showing of the night during the red eye hours.  I was mightily disoriented that night after my two installment sleep delayed viewing of the show and needed a caffeine IV the next day!!!

                          Linda

                          marie saccoccio <saccocciom@yahoo. com> wrote:
                          LInda, I see that there has been a dispute between Ancestry and "the Mormons."  I now have no idea who really owns Ancestry.  Perhaps SEC filings would share some light on this. I am curious.
                           
                          I sort of watched the PBS special on Mormons when it was on TV in Boston.  Mitt Romney was our governor, then presidential candidate so it was good to see.  I would like to watch it again though as I missed some parts.
                           
                          Marie
                           
                           
                           
                          Linda Peloquin <miyukichan0987@ yahoo.com> wrote:
                          Marie,

                          "I am sure the Vatican would not approve of this."  I don't think there's a problem there because of all the Catholic names I've run on familysearch. org, the only time any of them have come up has been in connection with an IGI (International Genealogical Index) take directly from primary source records.  Although I'm sure it happens that people who were Catholic have converted to the Mormon faith and there are Catholic ancestors who are also now Mormons, apparently none of them share ancestors with me or my husband.   The returns on the results page would say "member supplied" somewhere on the individual page for the person.  I just don't think Catholics have flocked to the Mormon religion in the numbers that other faiths have. 

                          For example, if you run my great-grandfather, Luigi Cannella, this is what you get for a result:  LUIGI CANNELLA - International Genealogical Index / SE
                          Gender: Male Marriage: 08 SEP 1849 Itri, Latina, Italy. 

                          When you click on his name the page you get tells you basically the same thing but because it is for a marriage so you also get: Spouse:  MARIA LORETA CARDI    Marriage:  08 SEP 1849   Itri, Latina, Italy

                          And at the bottom, the source of this information which is one of the Itri films of primary source records: Batch No.:  M840603    Dates: 1840 - 1861    Source Call No.: 1173755    Type:  Film; which is this film -> Matrimoni ag. 1840-1861 FHL INTL Film 1173755.

                          As far as I'm concerned, if someone was born Catholic, lived life as a Catholic and died in the Catholic faith or any other faith for that matter, something someone does many decades farther down the road isn't going to change that fact that they were Catholics.  It's after the fact and it's not going to change a single thing that has transpired in the past.  I look at it rather like having dual citizenship or two passports... one for the US and one for Italy for those folks who qualify.

                          " no longer available for the on line database that one pays for??"   I guess you're talking about the Generations Network sites here?   I had asked one of the volunteers at my FHC whom I knew was a Mormon if the Mormon's owned what Ancestry and it's sister sites' parent company was then known as "My Family.com" and was told "No" and that the FHC's had to pay for their access to Ancestry which she thought was unfair given that most of the content on Ancestry & company was materials that the Mormons had given them access to.

                          At any rate, none of the Itri material has ever been available through the pay sites of Ancestry or Genealogy.  I wish it were since it would be much more convenient.  I've gotten tons more research done on Hubby's French Canadian ancestors now that Ancestry has the Drouin* Collection on line.  *The Drouin Institute of Montréal when out in the 1930-1940's and filmed every repertoire aka parish register that was in existence at the time for the whole of Quebec.  The repertoire were, up into the 20th century, the official vital records of Quebec so with the Drouin films, it is possible to trace one's Fre-Can ancestors back to the beginning of New France and the first ancestors to come over from France in the 1600's.   I have often times wished that there existed something similar for Itri and Italy.

                          "Also, I cannot imagine the Mormons limiting that database based on objections,. ..."  familysearch. org, where one would find member supplied information thus indicating that someone descended from that person or persons had become a Mormon and submitted their ancestors, is free.   what the jewish people were objecting to where the member supplied information and registration of Jewish ancestors as Mormons.  Just as you won't find too many Catholic ancestors in the Mormon database, you won't find many Jewish ancestors. 

                          Look around and you can probably find the program "The Mormons" on a PBS DVD or maybe even your local library might have it in their collection.  It takes a lot of the mystery out of the Mormon faith which so many of us rely on for our research materials but know so little about.  This is from the PBS Store http://www.shoppbs. org/ - The Mormons Single DVD  Item No. MORM601 - Description:
                          The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is one of America's fastest growing religions, and its influence circles the globe. Yet the birth of Mormonism and its history is one of America's great neglected narratives. This four-hour documentary brings together FRONTLINE and AMERICAN EXPERIENCE in their first co-production to provide a searching portrait of this fascinating but often misunderstood religion.



                          Ancestry databases are records, periodicals, rare books, family genealogies, directories, maps, etc most of which would be otherwise inaccessible to most people by virtue of geographic separation from where the ancestors lived and the time constraints of trying to get in where the materials are during the hours a repository is open.  For example, what Ancestry has are numerous databases such as the Drouin, US, English and Canadian censuses, digitized forms of publications such as the rare early 5 volume 20th century publication "Staten Island and Its People : A History, 1609-1929" or Arnold's "Vital Record of Rhode Island, 1636-1850, First Series, Births, Marriages and Deaths : a Family Register for the People".

                          An Ancestry subscription can it's place in one's research.  As much as I love the American French Genealogical Society up in Woonsocket, it's having the Drouin available to me 24/7 through my Ancestry subscription that has gotten me where I am with the Fre-Can ancestors.  Ancestry can't replace the AFGS but it certainly has gotten me light years ahead in that line of research now that I don't have to wait to get time to get into the AFGS when they're open and when I do get in, I can make better use of the trip expanding upon what are know known and confirmed ancestors.

                          As far as what "Vault" means, I'm still trying to find that out without bringing attention to the Itri films at my FHC that are now listed as "Vault" on the familysearch. org web site.  I was pleased to see when I did my earlier reply that films that had been "Vault" on the weekend had changed in designation but still none to happy to see that nearly all the Processetti are now "Vault".  However, it's a whole lot easier to live without access to the Processetti than without the BMD films.

                          Linda


                          marie saccoccio <saccocciom@yahoo. com> wrote:
                          Linda, I find this fascinating and distrubing as I really did not know about the posthumous baptisms.  I am sure the Vatican would not approve of this.  Also, when you say the films for Itri are now in the VAULT, do you mean they are no longer available for the online database that one pays for?? 
                           
                          Don't kid yourself, the Mormons have grown very rich off their database.  I am sure that finances so many of their endeavors.  I would love to see the financials on ancestry.com.  Let me see if I can find anything on that subject.
                           
                          Also, I cannot imagine the Mormons limiting that database based on objections, since they make so much money off it.  Exclsion of every group that objects would dent into their profit margin. 
                           
                          Marie  

                          Linda Peloquin <miyukichan0987@ yahoo.com> wrote:
                          Why indeed?  If I were urber-suspicious, I'd think that it had something to do with the PBS running of the program on the Mormons and the Italian government objecting to the films being out there since the information in them is used by Mormons to have their ancestors posthumously baptized into the Mormon faith.  Somehow, though, I think it just a mundane coincidence that PBS stations around here ran the Mormon program at least 4 times a couple of weeks back that I remember. 

                          That's not to say that there haven't been some groups that have objected to having their people recorded for posterity as Mormons.  People of the Jewish faith took great exception to having their ancestors listed as "Mormon" and those people have been removed from the Mormon registers.  Now, only if a former member of the Jewish faith submits their own personal ancestors, does a Jewish ancestor get baptized a Mormon.  When I saw that segment in the program I thought the speaker's attitude a bit pompus.  after all, those ancestors might be that Mormon member's ancestors BUT they are also the ancestors of other people who are of the Jewish faith and might object just as deeply to having their ancestors' faith changed and having someone 100 years from now think that these folks were always Mormon.

                          I cringe every time the whole thing about the posthumous baptism gets widespread mention such as on the PBS program because I'm afraid that if too many people or religious groups got their backs ups and started complaining and demanding that their ancestors be struck from the registers of Mormons as was done with those of the Jewish faith, that the access to all the materials that we now enjoy will be denied those who are not Mormon.  My whole take on the thing is that if someone died a Lutheran, Catholic, Buddhist, Shinto, Episcopalian, Methodist or whatever and had considered themselves in life and had practiced that faith in their lifetime, then someone coming along 100 years later and baptizing them without their knowledge or consent really doesn't change a thing of what happened in the past and is pointless but if it puts someone else at ease within their chosen religion, I can't see much harm in it.


                          But I do see a great deal of harm to people's research if access to the information in the films is denied.  I wonder if it's just the films on Itri or all the Italian films?

                          Linda


                          marie saccoccio <saccocciom@yahoo. com> wrote:
                          I did some searching and there is a vault outside of Salt Lake City where these are kept.  It actually is a whole in the side of a mountain to protect them.  Looks kind of space age!!!  When you go to Salt Lake City you can view them but you have to order them before hand.  It says that some are chosen for safekeeping.  I bet there is more to this than meets the eye!!  Why Itri of all places?? 
                           
                          Marie  

                          Linda Peloquin <miyukichan0987@ yahoo.com> wrote:
                          I think so...I went in one day when Verna was pulling films and I asked her about what she was doing and she showed me a list that had come from Salt Lake that our director wanted the volunteers to pull.  U know what a stickler he seems to be.  I'm afraid to ask and bring attention to the films...I wish there were some way we could spirit them out of there and have bootlegs made...I'd definitely want to share the cost especially if the alternative is having all that information locked away where we can't see it any more.

                          Linda

                          Jason Soscia <jsoscia3@yahoo. com> wrote:
                          Can they really recall them back to Salt Lake?  I paid for most of those Itri films to be kept there indefinitely.

                          miyukichan0987 <miyukichan0987@ yahoo.com> wrote:
                          I noticed while composing a response to our newest member, Martine,
                          that quite a few of the films for Itri now say "VAULT INTL Film"
                          rather than "FHL INTL Film'.

                          I do know that under certain circumstances, films that were previously
                          available to research, suddenly become restricted for reasons no one
                          aka the volunteers at my FHC has been able to tell me because they
                          don't know either. They just get notices from Salt Lake telling them
                          to pull the films and return them to the FHL.

                          If these films that are now "Vault" are to be restricted it would be a
                          major blow to all of us trying to research our ancestors in Itri! It
                          has been frustrating enough for me that I can only research the period
                          between 1809 -1865 but now to lose a major portion of the films of
                          that period would be an insurmountable research tragedy!

                          15 of the 26 films of records for Itri are now designated "Vault". I
                          called my FHC to see if that means the records are no longer available
                          but the volunteer did not know what "Vault" meant with respect to
                          films already on loan. So far, the Itrani films at the Warwick, RI
                          FHC that are on "Indefinite" loan and which constitute nearly a
                          complete set of all the 26 films available, all seem to still be there.

                          However, since I don't know if they will at some point in the near
                          future be ordered pulled from the files and sent back to Salt Lake,
                          I'm going to start living at the FHC because I am far from done with
                          searching through those films.

                          Can anyone tell the rest of us if "Vault" means that we are about to
                          lose access to over 50% of the available films on Itri or not??

                          Linda



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                          Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.



                          Marie Elena Saccoccio

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                          Marie Elena Saccoccio

                          Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.


                          Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.



                          Marie Elena Saccoccio

                          Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.


                          Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.



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                        • rickj100001
                          Linda, After reading these posts regarding the VAULT v. FHL categories on the family search website, I also became a little alarmed. I don t know why
                          Message 12 of 14 , Mar 16, 2008
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Linda,

                            After reading these posts regarding the "VAULT" v. "FHL" categories
                            on the family search website, I also became a little alarmed. I
                            don't know why certain films are categorized the way they are, and I
                            doubt that the volunteers at my local FHC would know either.

                            But I have a printout of the FHL Catalog for Itri that I generated
                            on 7/1/07. The printout shows almost all of the Processetti films
                            (save for the two earliest), two Nati films (1824-1831 and 1832-
                            1839) and two Morti films (ag. 1827 - magg. 1846 and 1857-1861)
                            listed as "VAULT INTL."

                            Since the date of that printout, I have ordered and viewed all of
                            the Nati and Morti films (including those listed as VAULT INTL)
                            without any problem, and none were pulled from the files prior to my
                            consent (currently I have two Processetti films listed as VAULT on
                            indefinite loan without any problems).

                            So whatever the reasons for the categorizing of these films, it does
                            not mean that they are unavailable outside of Salt Lake City. Again,
                            I don't know what it means, but I haven't had a problem ordering
                            films categorized as VAULT.

                            Hope this puts everyone a little more at ease.

                            Rick


                            --- In FraDiavolo@yahoogroups.com, marie saccoccio <saccocciom@...>
                            wrote:
                            >
                            > LOL My recollection of it was that it was rather boring but
                            informative. I should pay more attention next time.
                            >
                            > Linda Peloquin <miyukichan0987@...> wrote: Marie,
                            >
                            > It was run several times just a couple of weeks ago...guess you
                            missed it. Both WGBH, Boston and WSBE, RI ran it a couple of times
                            each. On those days they ran it during normal evening hours & then
                            repeated it during the red eye hours. I know 'cause I zonked trying
                            to stay awake watching it, woke up and it was still on so I finished
                            watching the program thinking I'd only missed a few minutes. Only
                            later did I realize that when I had woken-up , what I woke-up during
                            was the second showing of the night during the red eye hours. I was
                            mightily disoriented that night after my two installment sleep
                            delayed viewing of the show and needed a caffeine IV the next day!!!
                            >
                            > Linda
                            >
                            > marie saccoccio <saccocciom@...> wrote:
                            > LInda, I see that there has been a dispute between Ancestry
                            and "the Mormons." I now have no idea who really owns Ancestry.
                            Perhaps SEC filings would share some light on this. I am curious.
                            >
                            > I sort of watched the PBS special on Mormons when it was on TV
                            in Boston. Mitt Romney was our governor, then presidential
                            candidate so it was good to see. I would like to watch it again
                            though as I missed some parts.
                            >
                            > Marie
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Linda Peloquin <miyukichan0987@...> wrote:
                            > Marie,
                            >
                            > "I am sure the Vatican would not approve of this." I don't think
                            there's a problem there because of all the Catholic names I've run
                            on familysearch.org, the only time any of them have come up has been
                            in connection with an IGI (International Genealogical Index) take
                            directly from primary source records. Although I'm sure it happens
                            that people who were Catholic have converted to the Mormon faith and
                            there are Catholic ancestors who are also now Mormons, apparently
                            none of them share ancestors with me or my husband. The returns on
                            the results page would say "member supplied" somewhere on the
                            individual page for the person. I just don't think Catholics have
                            flocked to the Mormon religion in the numbers that other faiths
                            have.
                            >
                            > For example, if you run my great-grandfather, Luigi Cannella, this
                            is what you get for a result: LUIGI CANNELLA - International
                            Genealogical Index / SE
                            > Gender: Male Marriage: 08 SEP 1849 Itri, Latina, Italy.
                            >
                            > When you click on his name the page you get tells you basically
                            the same thing but because it is for a marriage so you also get:
                            Spouse: MARIA LORETA CARDI Marriage: 08 SEP 1849 Itri,
                            Latina, Italy
                            >
                            > And at the bottom, the source of this information which is one of
                            the Itri films of primary source records: Batch No.: M840603
                            Dates: 1840 - 1861 Source Call No.: 1173755 Type: Film; which
                            is this film -> Matrimoni ag. 1840-1861 FHL INTL Film 1173755.
                            >
                            > As far as I'm concerned, if someone was born Catholic, lived life
                            as a Catholic and died in the Catholic faith or any other faith for
                            that matter, something someone does many decades farther down the
                            road isn't going to change that fact that they were Catholics. It's
                            after the fact and it's not going to change a single thing that has
                            transpired in the past. I look at it rather like having dual
                            citizenship or two passports...one for the US and one for Italy for
                            those folks who qualify.
                            >
                            > " no longer available for the on line database that one pays
                            for??" I guess you're talking about the Generations Network sites
                            here? I had asked one of the volunteers at my FHC whom I knew was
                            a Mormon if the Mormon's owned what Ancestry and it's sister sites'
                            parent company was then known as "My Family.com" and was told "No"
                            and that the FHC's had to pay for their access to Ancestry which she
                            thought was unfair given that most of the content on Ancestry &
                            company was materials that the Mormons had given them access to.
                            >
                            > At any rate, none of the Itri material has ever been available
                            through the pay sites of Ancestry or Genealogy. I wish it were
                            since it would be much more convenient. I've gotten tons more
                            research done on Hubby's French Canadian ancestors now that Ancestry
                            has the Drouin* Collection on line. *The Drouin Institute of
                            Montréal when out in the 1930-1940's and filmed every repertoire
                            aka parish register that was in existence at the time for the whole
                            of Quebec. The repertoire were, up into the 20th century, the
                            official vital records of Quebec so with the Drouin films, it is
                            possible to trace one's Fre-Can ancestors back to the beginning of
                            New France and the first ancestors to come over from France in the
                            1600's. I have often times wished that there existed something
                            similar for Itri and Italy.
                            >
                            > "Also, I cannot imagine the Mormons limiting that database based
                            on objections,...." familysearch.org, where one would find member
                            supplied information thus indicating that someone descended from
                            that person or persons had become a Mormon and submitted their
                            ancestors, is free. what the jewish people were objecting to where
                            the member supplied information and registration of Jewish ancestors
                            as Mormons. Just as you won't find too many Catholic ancestors in
                            the Mormon database, you won't find many Jewish ancestors.
                            >
                            > Look around and you can probably find the program "The Mormons" on
                            a PBS DVD or maybe even your local library might have it in their
                            collection. It takes a lot of the mystery out of the Mormon faith
                            which so many of us rely on for our research materials but know so
                            little about. This is from the PBS Store http://www.shoppbs.org/ -
                            The Mormons Single DVD Item No. MORM601 - Description: The Church
                            of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is one of America's fastest
                            growing religions, and its influence circles the globe. Yet the
                            birth of Mormonism and its history is one of America's great
                            neglected narratives. This four-hour documentary brings together
                            FRONTLINE and AMERICAN EXPERIENCE in their first co-production to
                            provide a searching portrait of this fascinating but often
                            misunderstood religion.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Ancestry databases are records, periodicals, rare books, family
                            genealogies, directories, maps, etc most of which would be otherwise
                            inaccessible to most people by virtue of geographic separation from
                            where the ancestors lived and the time constraints of trying to get
                            in where the materials are during the hours a repository is open.
                            For example, what Ancestry has are numerous databases such as the
                            Drouin, US, English and Canadian censuses, digitized forms of
                            publications such as the rare early 5 volume 20th century
                            publication "Staten Island and Its People : A History, 1609-1929" or
                            Arnold's "Vital Record of Rhode Island, 1636-1850, First Series,
                            Births, Marriages and Deaths : a Family Register for the People".
                            >
                            > An Ancestry subscription can it's place in one's research. As
                            much as I love the American French Genealogical Society up in
                            Woonsocket, it's having the Drouin available to me 24/7 through my
                            Ancestry subscription that has gotten me where I am with the Fre-Can
                            ancestors. Ancestry can't replace the AFGS but it certainly has
                            gotten me light years ahead in that line of research now that I
                            don't have to wait to get time to get into the AFGS when they're
                            open and when I do get in, I can make better use of the trip
                            expanding upon what are know known and confirmed ancestors.
                            >
                            > As far as what "Vault" means, I'm still trying to find that out
                            without bringing attention to the Itri films at my FHC that are now
                            listed as "Vault" on the familysearch.org web site. I was pleased
                            to see when I did my earlier reply that films that had been "Vault"
                            on the weekend had changed in designation but still none to happy to
                            see that nearly all the Processetti are now "Vault". However, it's
                            a whole lot easier to live without access to the Processetti than
                            without the BMD films.
                            >
                            > Linda
                            >
                            >
                            > marie saccoccio <saccocciom@...> wrote:
                            > Linda, I find this fascinating and distrubing as I really did
                            not know about the posthumous baptisms. I am sure the Vatican would
                            not approve of this. Also, when you say the films for Itri are now
                            in the VAULT, do you mean they are no longer available for the
                            online database that one pays for??
                            >
                            > Don't kid yourself, the Mormons have grown very rich off their
                            database. I am sure that finances so many of their endeavors. I
                            would love to see the financials on ancestry.com. Let me see if I
                            can find anything on that subject.
                            >
                            > Also, I cannot imagine the Mormons limiting that database based
                            on objections, since they make so much money off it. Exclsion of
                            every group that objects would dent into their profit margin.
                            >
                            > Marie
                            >
                            > Linda Peloquin <miyukichan0987@...> wrote:
                            > Why indeed? If I were urber-suspicious, I'd think that it
                            had something to do with the PBS running of the program on the
                            Mormons and the Italian government objecting to the films being out
                            there since the information in them is used by Mormons to have their
                            ancestors posthumously baptized into the Mormon faith. Somehow,
                            though, I think it just a mundane coincidence that PBS stations
                            around here ran the Mormon program at least 4 times a couple of
                            weeks back that I remember.
                            >
                            > That's not to say that there haven't been some groups that have
                            objected to having their people recorded for posterity as Mormons.
                            People of the Jewish faith took great exception to having their
                            ancestors listed as "Mormon" and those people have been removed from
                            the Mormon registers. Now, only if a former member of the Jewish
                            faith submits their own personal ancestors, does a Jewish ancestor
                            get baptized a Mormon. When I saw that segment in the program I
                            thought the speaker's attitude a bit pompus. after all, those
                            ancestors might be that Mormon member's ancestors BUT they are also
                            the ancestors of other people who are of the Jewish faith and might
                            object just as deeply to having their ancestors' faith changed and
                            having someone 100 years from now think that these folks were always
                            Mormon.
                            >
                            > I cringe every time the whole thing about the posthumous baptism
                            gets widespread mention such as on the PBS program because I'm
                            afraid that if too many people or religious groups got their backs
                            ups and started complaining and demanding that their ancestors be
                            struck from the registers of Mormons as was done with those of the
                            Jewish faith, that the access to all the materials that we now enjoy
                            will be denied those who are not Mormon. My whole take on the thing
                            is that if someone died a Lutheran, Catholic, Buddhist, Shinto,
                            Episcopalian, Methodist or whatever and had considered themselves in
                            life and had practiced that faith in their lifetime, then someone
                            coming along 100 years later and baptizing them without their
                            knowledge or consent really doesn't change a thing of what happened
                            in the past and is pointless but if it puts someone else at ease
                            within their chosen religion, I can't see much harm in it.
                            >
                            >
                            > But I do see a great deal of harm to people's research if access
                            to the information in the films is denied. I wonder if it's just
                            the films on Itri or all the Italian films?
                            >
                            > Linda
                            >
                            >
                            > marie saccoccio <saccocciom@...> wrote:
                            > I did some searching and there is a vault outside of Salt Lake
                            City where these are kept. It actually is a whole in the side of a
                            mountain to protect them. Looks kind of space age!!! When you go
                            to Salt Lake City you can view them but you have to order them
                            before hand. It says that some are chosen for safekeeping. I bet
                            there is more to this than meets the eye!! Why Itri of all
                            places??
                            >
                            > Marie
                            >
                            > Linda Peloquin <miyukichan0987@...> wrote:
                            > I think so...I went in one day when Verna was pulling films
                            and I asked her about what she was doing and she showed me a list
                            that had come from Salt Lake that our director wanted the volunteers
                            to pull. U know what a stickler he seems to be. I'm afraid to ask
                            and bring attention to the films...I wish there were some way we
                            could spirit them out of there and have bootlegs made...I'd
                            definitely want to share the cost especially if the alternative is
                            having all that information locked away where we can't see it any
                            more.
                            >
                            > Linda
                            >
                            > Jason Soscia <jsoscia3@...> wrote: Can they really recall
                            them back to Salt Lake? I paid for most of those Itri films to be
                            kept there indefinitely.
                            >
                            > miyukichan0987 <miyukichan0987@...> wrote:
                            > I noticed while composing a response to our newest member,
                            Martine,
                            > that quite a few of the films for Itri now say "VAULT INTL Film"
                            > rather than "FHL INTL Film'.
                            >
                            > I do know that under certain circumstances, films that were
                            previously
                            > available to research, suddenly become restricted for reasons no
                            one
                            > aka the volunteers at my FHC has been able to tell me because they
                            > don't know either. They just get notices from Salt Lake telling
                            them
                            > to pull the films and return them to the FHL.
                            >
                            > If these films that are now "Vault" are to be restricted it would
                            be a
                            > major blow to all of us trying to research our ancestors in Itri!
                            It
                            > has been frustrating enough for me that I can only research the
                            period
                            > between 1809 -1865 but now to lose a major portion of the films of
                            > that period would be an insurmountable research tragedy!
                            >
                            > 15 of the 26 films of records for Itri are now designated "Vault".
                            I
                            > called my FHC to see if that means the records are no longer
                            available
                            > but the volunteer did not know what "Vault" meant with respect to
                            > films already on loan. So far, the Itrani films at the Warwick, RI
                            > FHC that are on "Indefinite" loan and which constitute nearly a
                            > complete set of all the 26 films available, all seem to still be
                            there.
                            >
                            > However, since I don't know if they will at some point in the near
                            > future be ordered pulled from the files and sent back to Salt Lake,
                            > I'm going to start living at the FHC because I am far from done
                            with
                            > searching through those films.
                            >
                            > Can anyone tell the rest of us if "Vault" means that we are about
                            to
                            > lose access to over 50% of the available films on Itri or not??
                            >
                            > Linda
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ---------------------------------
                            > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo!
                            Mobile. Try it now.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ---------------------------------
                            > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Marie Elena Saccoccio
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ---------------------------------
                            > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with
                            Yahoo! Search.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ---------------------------------
                            > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with
                            Yahoo! Search.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Marie Elena Saccoccio
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ---------------------------------
                            > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ---------------------------------
                            > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo!
                            Mobile. Try it now.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Marie Elena Saccoccio
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ---------------------------------
                            > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo!
                            Mobile. Try it now.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ---------------------------------
                            > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Marie Elena Saccoccio
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ---------------------------------
                            > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with
                            Yahoo! Search.
                            >
                          • Linda Peloquin
                            Rick, That s encouraging. I have a couple of the early processetti films that are now VAULT on indefinite and I d hate for them to be sent back as I have
                            Message 13 of 14 , Mar 19, 2008
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Rick,

                              That's encouraging.  I have a couple of the early processetti films that are now "VAULT" on indefinite and I'd hate for them to be sent back as I have been able to push just a speck farther back using the records contained in them.

                              The way I had read the definition of the VAULT films on the familysearch.org it sounded like the films would only be available via a trip to Salt Lake and that one would have to reserve the films ahead.

                              I had wanted to get into my FHC this weekend and check on the films that are presently there that are now catagorized "VAULT" but had no time.   Hopefully I can get in this week.

                              I wonder if Jason has had a chance to go there yet to check.

                              Linda

                              rickj100001 <rickj100001@...> wrote:
                              Linda,

                              After reading these posts regarding the "VAULT" v. "FHL" categories
                              on the family search website, I also became a little alarmed. I
                              don't know why certain films are categorized the way they are, and I
                              doubt that the volunteers at my local FHC would know either.

                              But I have a printout of the FHL Catalog for Itri that I generated
                              on 7/1/07. The printout shows almost all of the Processetti films
                              (save for the two earliest), two Nati films (1824-1831 and 1832-
                              1839) and two Morti films (ag. 1827 - magg. 1846 and 1857-1861)
                              listed as "VAULT INTL."

                              Since the date of that printout, I have ordered and viewed all of
                              the Nati and Morti films (including those listed as VAULT INTL)
                              without any problem, and none were pulled from the files prior to my
                              consent (currently I have two Processetti films listed as VAULT on
                              indefinite loan without any problems).

                              So whatever the reasons for the categorizing of these films, it does
                              not mean that they are unavailable outside of Salt Lake City. Again,
                              I don't know what it means, but I haven't had a problem ordering
                              films categorized as VAULT.

                              Hope this puts everyone a little more at ease.

                              Rick

                              --- In FraDiavolo@yahoogro ups.com, marie saccoccio <saccocciom@ ...>
                              wrote:
                              >
                              > LOL My recollection of it was that it was rather boring but
                              informative. I should pay more attention next time.
                              >
                              > Linda Peloquin <miyukichan0987@ ...> wrote: Marie,
                              >
                              > It was run several times just a couple of weeks ago...guess you
                              missed it. Both WGBH, Boston and WSBE, RI ran it a couple of times
                              each. On those days they ran it during normal evening hours & then
                              repeated it during the red eye hours. I know 'cause I zonked trying
                              to stay awake watching it, woke up and it was still on so I finished
                              watching the program thinking I'd only missed a few minutes. Only
                              later did I realize that when I had woken-up , what I woke-up during
                              was the second showing of the night during the red eye hours. I was
                              mightily disoriented that night after my two installment sleep
                              delayed viewing of the show and needed a caffeine IV the next day!!!
                              >
                              > Linda
                              >
                              > marie saccoccio <saccocciom@ ...> wrote:
                              > LInda, I see that there has been a dispute between Ancestry
                              and "the Mormons." I now have no idea who really owns Ancestry.
                              Perhaps SEC filings would share some light on this. I am curious.
                              >
                              > I sort of watched the PBS special on Mormons when it was on TV
                              in Boston. Mitt Romney was our governor, then presidential
                              candidate so it was good to see. I would like to watch it again
                              though as I missed some parts.
                              >
                              > Marie
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Linda Peloquin <miyukichan0987@ ...> wrote:
                              > Marie,
                              >
                              > "I am sure the Vatican would not approve of this." I don't think
                              there's a problem there because of all the Catholic names I've run
                              on familysearch. org, the only time any of them have come up has been
                              in connection with an IGI (International Genealogical Index) take
                              directly from primary source records. Although I'm sure it happens
                              that people who were Catholic have converted to the Mormon faith and
                              there are Catholic ancestors who are also now Mormons, apparently
                              none of them share ancestors with me or my husband. The returns on
                              the results page would say "member supplied" somewhere on the
                              individual page for the person. I just don't think Catholics have
                              flocked to the Mormon religion in the numbers that other faiths
                              have.
                              >
                              > For example, if you run my great-grandfather, Luigi Cannella, this
                              is what you get for a result: LUIGI CANNELLA - International
                              Genealogical Index / SE
                              > Gender: Male Marriage: 08 SEP 1849 Itri, Latina, Italy.
                              >
                              > When you click on his name the page you get tells you basically
                              the same thing but because it is for a marriage so you also get:
                              Spouse: MARIA LORETA CARDI Marriage: 08 SEP 1849 Itri,
                              Latina, Italy
                              >
                              > And at the bottom, the source of this information which is one of
                              the Itri films of primary source records: Batch No.: M840603
                              Dates: 1840 - 1861 Source Call No.: 1173755 Type: Film; which
                              is this film -> Matrimoni ag. 1840-1861 FHL INTL Film 1173755.
                              >
                              > As far as I'm concerned, if someone was born Catholic, lived life
                              as a Catholic and died in the Catholic faith or any other faith for
                              that matter, something someone does many decades farther down the
                              road isn't going to change that fact that they were Catholics. It's
                              after the fact and it's not going to change a single thing that has
                              transpired in the past. I look at it rather like having dual
                              citizenship or two passports... one for the US and one for Italy for
                              those folks who qualify.
                              >
                              > " no longer available for the on line database that one pays
                              for??" I guess you're talking about the Generations Network sites
                              here? I had asked one of the volunteers at my FHC whom I knew was
                              a Mormon if the Mormon's owned what Ancestry and it's sister sites'
                              parent company was then known as "My Family.com" and was told "No"
                              and that the FHC's had to pay for their access to Ancestry which she
                              thought was unfair given that most of the content on Ancestry &
                              company was materials that the Mormons had given them access to.
                              >
                              > At any rate, none of the Itri material has ever been available
                              through the pay sites of Ancestry or Genealogy. I wish it were
                              since it would be much more convenient. I've gotten tons more
                              research done on Hubby's French Canadian ancestors now that Ancestry
                              has the Drouin* Collection on line. *The Drouin Institute of
                              Montréal when out in the 1930-1940's and filmed every repertoire
                              aka parish register that was in existence at the time for the whole
                              of Quebec. The repertoire were, up into the 20th century, the
                              official vital records of Quebec so with the Drouin films, it is
                              possible to trace one's Fre-Can ancestors back to the beginning of
                              New France and the first ancestors to come over from France in the
                              1600's. I have often times wished that there existed something
                              similar for Itri and Italy.
                              >
                              > "Also, I cannot imagine the Mormons limiting that database based
                              on objections,. ..." familysearch. org, where one would find member
                              supplied information thus indicating that someone descended from
                              that person or persons had become a Mormon and submitted their
                              ancestors, is free. what the jewish people were objecting to where
                              the member supplied information and registration of Jewish ancestors
                              as Mormons. Just as you won't find too many Catholic ancestors in
                              the Mormon database, you won't find many Jewish ancestors.
                              >
                              > Look around and you can probably find the program "The Mormons" on
                              a PBS DVD or maybe even your local library might have it in their
                              collection. It takes a lot of the mystery out of the Mormon faith
                              which so many of us rely on for our research materials but know so
                              little about. This is from the PBS Store http://www.shoppbs. org/ -
                              The Mormons Single DVD Item No. MORM601 - Description: The Church
                              of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is one of America's fastest
                              growing religions, and its influence circles the globe. Yet the
                              birth of Mormonism and its history is one of America's great
                              neglected narratives. This four-hour documentary brings together
                              FRONTLINE and AMERICAN EXPERIENCE in their first co-production to
                              provide a searching portrait of this fascinating but often
                              misunderstood religion.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Ancestry databases are records, periodicals, rare books, family
                              genealogies, directories, maps, etc most of which would be otherwise
                              inaccessible to most people by virtue of geographic separation from
                              where the ancestors lived and the time constraints of trying to get
                              in where the materials are during the hours a repository is open.
                              For example, what Ancestry has are numerous databases such as the
                              Drouin, US, English and Canadian censuses, digitized forms of
                              publications such as the rare early 5 volume 20th century
                              publication "Staten Island and Its People : A History, 1609-1929" or
                              Arnold's "Vital Record of Rhode Island, 1636-1850, First Series,
                              Births, Marriages and Deaths : a Family Register for the People".
                              >
                              > An Ancestry subscription can it's place in one's research. As
                              much as I love the American French Genealogical Society up in
                              Woonsocket, it's having the Drouin available to me 24/7 through my
                              Ancestry subscription that has gotten me where I am with the Fre-Can
                              ancestors. Ancestry can't replace the AFGS but it certainly has
                              gotten me light years ahead in that line of research now that I
                              don't have to wait to get time to get into the AFGS when they're
                              open and when I do get in, I can make better use of the trip
                              expanding upon what are know known and confirmed ancestors.
                              >
                              > As far as what "Vault" means, I'm still trying to find that out
                              without bringing attention to the Itri films at my FHC that are now
                              listed as "Vault" on the familysearch. org web site. I was pleased
                              to see when I did my earlier reply that films that had been "Vault"
                              on the weekend had changed in designation but still none to happy to
                              see that nearly all the Processetti are now "Vault". However, it's
                              a whole lot easier to live without access to the Processetti than
                              without the BMD films.
                              >
                              > Linda
                              >
                              >
                              > marie saccoccio <saccocciom@ ...> wrote:
                              > Linda, I find this fascinating and distrubing as I really did
                              not know about the posthumous baptisms. I am sure the Vatican would
                              not approve of this. Also, when you say the films for Itri are now
                              in the VAULT, do you mean they are no longer available for the
                              online database that one pays for??
                              >
                              > Don't kid yourself, the Mormons have grown very rich off their
                              database. I am sure that finances so many of their endeavors. I
                              would love to see the financials on ancestry.com. Let me see if I
                              can find anything on that subject.
                              >
                              > Also, I cannot imagine the Mormons limiting that database based
                              on objections, since they make so much money off it. Exclsion of
                              every group that objects would dent into their profit margin.
                              >
                              > Marie
                              >
                              > Linda Peloquin <miyukichan0987@ ...> wrote:
                              > Why indeed? If I were urber-suspicious, I'd think that it
                              had something to do with the PBS running of the program on the
                              Mormons and the Italian government objecting to the films being out
                              there since the information in them is used by Mormons to have their
                              ancestors posthumously baptized into the Mormon faith. Somehow,
                              though, I think it just a mundane coincidence that PBS stations
                              around here ran the Mormon program at least 4 times a couple of
                              weeks back that I remember.
                              >
                              > That's not to say that there haven't been some groups that have
                              objected to having their people recorded for posterity as Mormons.
                              People of the Jewish faith took great exception to having their
                              ancestors listed as "Mormon" and those people have been removed from
                              the Mormon registers. Now, only if a former member of the Jewish
                              faith submits their own personal ancestors, does a Jewish ancestor
                              get baptized a Mormon. When I saw that segment in the program I
                              thought the speaker's attitude a bit pompus. after all, those
                              ancestors might be that Mormon member's ancestors BUT they are also
                              the ancestors of other people who are of the Jewish faith and might
                              object just as deeply to having their ancestors' faith changed and
                              having someone 100 years from now think that these folks were always
                              Mormon.
                              >
                              > I cringe every time the whole thing about the posthumous baptism
                              gets widespread mention such as on the PBS program because I'm
                              afraid that if too many people or religious groups got their backs
                              ups and started complaining and demanding that their ancestors be
                              struck from the registers of Mormons as was done with those of the
                              Jewish faith, that the access to all the materials that we now enjoy
                              will be denied those who are not Mormon. My whole take on the thing
                              is that if someone died a Lutheran, Catholic, Buddhist, Shinto,
                              Episcopalian, Methodist or whatever and had considered themselves in
                              life and had practiced that faith in their lifetime, then someone
                              coming along 100 years later and baptizing them without their
                              knowledge or consent really doesn't change a thing of what happened
                              in the past and is pointless but if it puts someone else at ease
                              within their chosen religion, I can't see much harm in it.
                              >
                              >
                              > But I do see a great deal of harm to people's research if access
                              to the information in the films is denied. I wonder if it's just
                              the films on Itri or all the Italian films?
                              >
                              > Linda
                              >
                              >
                              > marie saccoccio <saccocciom@ ...> wrote:
                              > I did some searching and there is a vault outside of Salt Lake
                              City where these are kept. It actually is a whole in the side of a
                              mountain to protect them. Looks kind of space age!!! When you go
                              to Salt Lake City you can view them but you have to order them
                              before hand. It says that some are chosen for safekeeping. I bet
                              there is more to this than meets the eye!! Why Itri of all
                              places??
                              >
                              > Marie
                              >
                              > Linda Peloquin <miyukichan0987@ ...> wrote:
                              > I think so...I went in one day when Verna was pulling films
                              and I asked her about what she was doing and she showed me a list
                              that had come from Salt Lake that our director wanted the volunteers
                              to pull. U know what a stickler he seems to be. I'm afraid to ask
                              and bring attention to the films...I wish there were some way we
                              could spirit them out of there and have bootlegs made...I'd
                              definitely want to share the cost especially if the alternative is
                              having all that information locked away where we can't see it any
                              more.
                              >
                              > Linda
                              >
                              > Jason Soscia <jsoscia3@.. .> wrote: Can they really recall
                              them back to Salt Lake? I paid for most of those Itri films to be
                              kept there indefinitely.
                              >
                              > miyukichan0987 <miyukichan0987@ ...> wrote:
                              > I noticed while composing a response to our newest member,
                              Martine,
                              > that quite a few of the films for Itri now say "VAULT INTL Film"
                              > rather than "FHL INTL Film'.
                              >
                              > I do know that under certain circumstances, films that were
                              previously
                              > available to research, suddenly become restricted for reasons no
                              one
                              > aka the volunteers at my FHC has been able to tell me because they
                              > don't know either. They just get notices from Salt Lake telling
                              them
                              > to pull the films and return them to the FHL.
                              >
                              > If these films that are now "Vault" are to be restricted it would
                              be a
                              > major blow to all of us trying to research our ancestors in Itri!
                              It
                              > has been frustrating enough for me that I can only research the
                              period
                              > between 1809 -1865 but now to lose a major portion of the films of
                              > that period would be an insurmountable research tragedy!
                              >
                              > 15 of the 26 films of records for Itri are now designated "Vault".
                              I
                              > called my FHC to see if that means the records are no longer
                              available
                              > but the volunteer did not know what "Vault" meant with respect to
                              > films already on loan. So far, the Itrani films at the Warwick, RI
                              > FHC that are on "Indefinite" loan and which constitute nearly a
                              > complete set of all the 26 films available, all seem to still be
                              there.
                              >
                              > However, since I don't know if they will at some point in the near
                              > future be ordered pulled from the files and sent back to Salt Lake,
                              > I'm going to start living at the FHC because I am far from done
                              with
                              > searching through those films.
                              >
                              > Can anyone tell the rest of us if "Vault" means that we are about
                              to
                              > lose access to over 50% of the available films on Itri or not??
                              >
                              > Linda
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
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