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Re: [Flewelling] CAPTAIN! There be SPOILERS here!!

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  • Michelle
    *Begin Spoiler Space* blah blah blah blah blah lalalalalalalalala de doo doo doo, de da da da is all I want to say to you~ If I had a hammer, I d hammer in the
    Message 1 of 9 , May 31, 2010
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      *Begin Spoiler Space*

      blah blah blah blah blah

      lalalalalalalalala

      de doo doo doo, de da da da is all I want to say to you~

      If I had a hammer, I'd hammer in the morning! I'd hammer in the evening! All
      over this land!

      Mareseatoats
      Andoeseatoats
      Andlittlelambseativy
      Akid'lleativytoo,
      How bout you?
      If the words sound queer
      And funny to your ear
      And a little bit jumbled and jivy
      Sing Mares Eat Oats
      And Does Eat Oats
      And Little Lambs Eat Ivy

      *End Spoiler Space*

      Copying the spoiler space, as well, because ... it's just cute. XD

      I finished the book earlier today and read all the comments people have made so far... I have to say, I really enjoyed the book! I had a hard time getting through it because I had a lot going on at the same time, but I read it as often as I could and just burned through the last 144 pages today! I have to say, it felt eventful to me, mostly because there was danger for our friends at every corner. What with the attack in the beginning, Ulan's plotting, dealing with the Ebrados, then walking straight into the Plenimar death trap... only to be caught a couple times in their escape and then have to face a huge battle with the Retha'noi at the end. I mean, personally, I was on the edge of my seat at every turn and wishing like hell I had someone to freak out with while reading it! Oh, oh, hey, not to mention the first third of the book, with Sebrahn causing trouble for them all over Aurenen. Seriously, there was danger everywhere!

      All of that felt eventful to me, just in a different style than the other books. There was not one single bad guy, but many bad guys, that flanked the good guys on all sides along the way. It was constantly scary, to me!

      I agree, that it was the best thing, for Alec to give up Sebrahn to go back with the Hazad. Though my heart broke a little for Alec's sake. It was so sad, too, when he had to ride away that first time and looked back at Sabrahn who did nothing and Alec's heart broke. :( Also, I was shamelessly distressed when Alec and Seregil missed out on dancing in Bokthersa at the festival! I wanted to see them dance. ;__; I was also kind of shamelessly happy when they were finally alone on Rhal's boat that night. I think I read those two pages where they were made fun of about two or three times before moving on. Haha!

      The first person to respond to the book, Marleen, had many criticisms about it, I noticed. I actually strongly disagree with most of them, I have to say. On the claims that Seregil is a bland character because he's concerned for Alec's wellbeing seems wrong. I think it just shows another side to his character. I think we can look at characters from multiple views without any of them negating any other sides of the character. I think the subtlety of Seregil's dynamic is lost with the other view. Seregil remains crafty and witty the whole way through the book, despite his constant concern for Alec. He was crafty each place he sneaked into and showed a less humane side to those who had been so cruel to him and his companions (by not forgiving Ilar and when confronting Ulan). I think that showing Seregil's concern for Alec shows his love for the man. He is wily when he needs to be and loving when he needs to be. To only be wily and sneaky and vicious and
      never loving or showing concern, would make him less well rounded.

      I also think Alec did challenge Seregil at many points. He fought him every time he was told to stay behind, and fought him on wanting to keep Sebrahn. It was only whenever he realized, in his heart, that Seregil was really right that he finally gave in. He decided on what was best for everyone and what was best for Sebrahn and it was always a clear struggle for him. So I don't think that Alec is refusing to stand up to Seregil. He clearly stood up for himself every time he disagreed; the fight in the slave hold with finger signs and whispers in Plenimar, the times he fought to keep Sebrahn.

      Also, Marleen said, "Seregil is naturally the dominant party in this relationship, and in my
      personal experience cocky, dominant, self assured men don't turn
      considerate and concerned without the other party in the relationship
      forcibly pointing out when they're being inconsiderate dicks. "

      I don't think this is the case at all. I think Seregil and Alec are quite equals, though Seregil is much older and more experienced. He still listens to Alec when he needs to and has always been considerate of the other's feelings. Even when he tries to hide his smiles when they're being joked about for having made love loudly. :P He has always been afraid for Alec's safety, like when he was kidnapped, with only a lock of his hair left behind. He never wasn't concerned for Alec and was always rather considerate of Alec. And Alec always seems up to talk back if he disagrees.

      Those are just my feelings on it.

      Michelle




      ________________________________
      From: Kristi Lynn <alanna214@...>
      To: Flewelling@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Wed, May 26, 2010 5:40:35 PM
      Subject: Re: [Flewelling] CAPTAIN! There be SPOILERS here!!


      White Road Spoilers

      *Begin Spoiler Space*

      blah blah blah blah blah

      lalalalalalalalala

      How 'bout them Astros? (Maybe the Pirates? :p Yeah, I'm from Pittsburgh.)

      If I had a hammer, I'd hammer in the morning! I'd hammer in the evening! All
      over this land!

      Mareseatoats
      Andoeseatoats
      Andlittlelambseativy
      Akid'lleativytoo,
      How bout you?
      If the words sound queer
      And funny to your ear
      And a little bit jumbled and jivy
      Sing Mares Eat Oats
      And Does Eat Oats
      And Little Lambs Eat Ivy

      *End Spoiler Space*

      Hope you don't mind me borrowing your spoiler space. ^^"

      I got the book yesterday and started reading it around 8pm and finished
      around 6am. :D I *love* being able to do that.

      I'm *very* happy with how this one wrapped up. I think I heard it mentioned
      before that SR and WR could have been one book, but kind of needed to be
      split up. I can definitely see that. Though overall, this one seemed kind of
      uneventful. Maybe that's just compared to the gut wrenching
      that occurred during SR. About the only time I felt that bad during WR was
      when the drayman was describing what kind of torture a master killer would
      have to endure at the slave market. Ohmygod *cringe* I'm also glad that
      Sebrahn is with people who can really take care of him now. There's no way
      that Seregil and Alec could have any sort of life with him around. It's just
      way too dangerous, for everyone concerned. I'm glad that Ulan got what he
      deserved, too. I think with him out of the picture, Ilar will most likely
      show up again, too. Desperation does strange things to people. Ilar will
      probably read into the fact that Seregil didn't outright kill him and take
      it to mean a lot more than it did.

      It felt a little short to me, too. But I think I'm the same way with
      books/movies that you are. I do it for the entertainment. I usually don't
      read into things too much and simply take them at face value. I'm also
      pretty good at the "suspension of belief" thing and I *really* get into
      stories. ^_^

      I'm also really glad I don't have to tiptoe around my email inbox now. XD
      Can't wait to hear from everyone else.

      -Kristi

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Marleens Yoga
      ... I wouldn t say I have /many/ criticisms about the book. I really liked it! The things I mentioned were, in my view, minor, but nagging. From what I have
      Message 2 of 9 , Jun 2, 2010
      • 0 Attachment
        >
        >
        > *Begin Spoiler Space*
        >
        > blah blah blah blah blah
        >
        > lalalalalalalalala
        >
        > de doo doo doo, de da da da is all I want to say to you~
        >
        >
        > If I had a hammer, I'd hammer in the morning! I'd hammer in the evening!
        > All
        > over this land!
        >
        > Mareseatoats
        > Andoeseatoats
        > Andlittlelambseativy
        > Akid'lleativytoo,
        > How bout you?
        > If the words sound queer
        > And funny to your ear
        > And a little bit jumbled and jivy
        > Sing Mares Eat Oats
        > And Does Eat Oats
        > And Little Lambs Eat Ivy
        >
        > *End Spoiler Space*
        >
        >
        > The first person to respond to the book, Marleen, had many criticisms about
        > it, I noticed. I actually strongly disagree with most of them, I have to
        > say. On the claims that Seregil is a bland character because he's concerned
        > for Alec's wellbeing seems wrong. I think it just shows another side to his
        > character. I think we can look at characters from multiple views without any
        > of them negating any other sides of the character. I think the subtlety of
        > Seregil's dynamic is lost with the other view. Seregil remains crafty and
        > witty the whole way through the book, despite his constant concern for Alec.
        > He was crafty each place he sneaked into and showed a less humane side to
        > those who had been so cruel to him and his companions (by not forgiving Ilar
        > and when confronting Ulan). I think that showing Seregil's concern for Alec
        > shows his love for the man. He is wily when he needs to be and loving when
        > he needs to be. To only be wily and sneaky and vicious and
        > never loving or showing concern, would make him less well rounded.
        >

        I wouldn't say I have /many/ criticisms about the book. I really liked it!
        The things I mentioned were, in my view, minor, but nagging. From what I
        have read so far from people's comments, they really like the sweeter stuff
        that confirms how well our two heroes fit together, the dancing, the family
        stuff in Aurenen, etc. Me, I guess I like to read about conflict more. The
        whole time they were in Bhoktersa I was waiting for someone to NOT approve
        of Alec and NOT make him feel warm and fuzzy and welcome. After all, he is
        the half-blood, underage gay lover of one of their own underage, convicted
        and exiled clan members who brought shame on the clan and now makes his
        living as a thief and spy with the less civilized Tir. Surely /someone/ in
        Bhoktersa doesn't approve? Especially with all that worrying Seregil
        did about that (apperantely for nothing) while traveling there. Where did
        the disapproving sisters go?

        Seregil could never be bland, I just thought he was more bland than usual.
        That is why I thought the scenes between him and Rieser, Ulan and Ilar were
        the best in the book. I would have like a few more of those and a bit less
        repetition of the concern. I get it, he loves Alec and I am truly happy he
        does, but I guess a prefer a different balance between the snark and the
        concern.

        >
        > I also think Alec did challenge Seregil at many points. He fought him every
        > time he was told to stay behind, and fought him on wanting to keep Sebrahn.
        > It was only whenever he realized, in his heart, that Seregil was really
        > right that he finally gave in. He decided on what was best for everyone and
        > what was best for Sebrahn and it was always a clear struggle for him. So I
        > don't think that Alec is refusing to stand up to Seregil. He clearly stood
        > up for himself every time he disagreed; the fight in the slave hold with
        > finger signs and whispers in Plenimar, the times he fought to keep Sebrahn.
        >




        >
        > Also, Marleen said, "Seregil is naturally the dominant party in this
        > relationship, and in my
        > personal experience cocky, dominant, self assured men don't turn
        > considerate and concerned without the other party in the relationship
        > forcibly pointing out when they're being inconsiderate dicks. "
        >
        > I don't think this is the case at all. I think Seregil and Alec are quite
        > equals, though Seregil is much older and more experienced. He still listens
        > to Alec when he needs to and has always been considerate of the other's
        > feelings. Even when he tries to hide his smiles when they're being joked
        > about for having made love loudly. :P He has always been afraid for Alec's
        > safety, like when he was kidnapped, with only a lock of his hair left
        > behind. He never wasn't concerned for Alec and was always rather considerate
        > of Alec. And Alec always seems up to talk back if he disagrees.
        >

        You're right, he always was considerate of Alec, and maybe that is the part
        that I find unrealistic with the background they have. It's not so much that
        Alec doesn't stand up to him, it's more that I find it hard to believe that
        a character like Seregil would be /that/ considerate. I am not saying he
        can't learn to be considerate, but I would think that for a guy like him,
        with the way his life has gone, it would be a constant struggle and there
        would be more backsliding into I'll-fix-this-don't
        -you-worry-your-pretty-little-head attitude. But maybe that is more of a
        reflection on how the relationships in my life have gone than on the ones in
        these books ;-)

        Have you ever read the 5 Belgariad books and their 5 Malloreon sequels by
        David Eddings? The Belgariad is fun, lots of interesting interactions
        between our group of heroes. But then in the Malloreon all that has been
        reduced to a few running gags and the group of all-powerful heroes now just
        blasts their way through the token opposition for 5 books. Yawn. I am not
        saying that is what is happening with the nightrunner series now, I am
        saying that that is what I am afraid /might/ happen down the road when
        everybody starts getting along and working together. See, I have been
        scarred by a 25 year old fantasy series.....

        Thanks for engaging in the discussion, Michelle!

        Marleen



        ________________________________
        From: Kristi Lynn <alanna214@... <alanna214%40gmail.com>>
        To: Flewelling@yahoogroups.com <Flewelling%40yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Wed, May 26, 2010 5:40:35 PM
        Subject: Re: [Flewelling] CAPTAIN! There be SPOILERS here!!

        >
        >
        > White Road Spoilers
        >
        > *Begin Spoiler Space*
        >
        > blah blah blah blah blah
        >
        > lalalalalalalalala
        >
        > How 'bout them Astros? (Maybe the Pirates? :p Yeah, I'm from Pittsburgh.)
        >
        > If I had a hammer, I'd hammer in the morning! I'd hammer in the evening!
        > All
        > over this land!
        >
        > Mareseatoats
        > Andoeseatoats
        > Andlittlelambseativy
        > Akid'lleativytoo,
        > How bout you?
        > If the words sound queer
        > And funny to your ear
        > And a little bit jumbled and jivy
        > Sing Mares Eat Oats
        > And Does Eat Oats
        > And Little Lambs Eat Ivy
        >
        > *End Spoiler Space*
        >
        > Hope you don't mind me borrowing your spoiler space. ^^"
        >
        > I got the book yesterday and started reading it around 8pm and finished
        > around 6am. :D I *love* being able to do that.
        >
        > I'm *very* happy with how this one wrapped up. I think I heard it mentioned
        > before that SR and WR could have been one book, but kind of needed to be
        > split up. I can definitely see that. Though overall, this one seemed kind
        > of
        > uneventful. Maybe that's just compared to the gut wrenching
        > that occurred during SR. About the only time I felt that bad during WR was
        > when the drayman was describing what kind of torture a master killer would
        > have to endure at the slave market. Ohmygod *cringe* I'm also glad that
        > Sebrahn is with people who can really take care of him now. There's no way
        > that Seregil and Alec could have any sort of life with him around. It's
        > just
        > way too dangerous, for everyone concerned. I'm glad that Ulan got what he
        > deserved, too. I think with him out of the picture, Ilar will most likely
        > show up again, too. Desperation does strange things to people. Ilar will
        > probably read into the fact that Seregil didn't outright kill him and take
        > it to mean a lot more than it did.
        >
        > It felt a little short to me, too. But I think I'm the same way with
        > books/movies that you are. I do it for the entertainment. I usually don't
        > read into things too much and simply take them at face value. I'm also
        > pretty good at the "suspension of belief" thing and I *really* get into
        > stories. ^_^
        >
        > I'm also really glad I don't have to tiptoe around my email inbox now. XD
        > Can't wait to hear from everyone else.
        >
        > -Kristi
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Mercury
        ... I just want to say that I really loved white road except for two things. first I really felt like shadows return and white road where meant to be one book.
        Message 3 of 9 , Jun 3, 2010
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          --- In Flewelling@yahoogroups.com, Marleens Yoga <marleensyoga@...> wrote:
          >
          > >
          > >
          > > *Begin Spoiler Space*
          > >
          > > blah blah blah blah blah
          > >
          > > lalalalalalalalala
          > >
          > > de doo doo doo, de da da da is all I want to say to you~
          > >
          > >
          > > If I had a hammer, I'd hammer in the morning! I'd hammer in the evening!
          > > All
          > > over this land!
          > >
          > > Mareseatoats
          > > Andoeseatoats
          > > Andlittlelambseativy
          > > Akid'lleativytoo,
          > > How bout you?
          > > If the words sound queer
          > > And funny to your ear
          > > And a little bit jumbled and jivy
          > > Sing Mares Eat Oats
          > > And Does Eat Oats
          > > And Little Lambs Eat Ivy
          > >
          > > *End Spoiler Space*
          > >
          > >

          I just want to say that I really loved white road except for two things.
          first I really felt like shadows return and white road where meant to be one book. But that's fine as long as you read them back to back. The only other thing was the Retha noi battle. I love the Retha noi so it made me very sad they were the enemy in the end. I know the mother and Illoir can't always be hanging out and seeing eye to eye, but it would have been nice to have confrontation with the Retha noi without the slaughter. That just turned my stomach when Lynn described them dying. But then again, even though I didn't like it, it was still great writing.
          -Mercury
        • philyra_rose
          *Begin Spoiler Space* blah blah blah blah blah lalalalalalalalala de doo doo doo, de da da da is all I want to say to you~ If I had a hammer, I d hammer in the
          Message 4 of 9 , Jun 3, 2010
          • 0 Attachment
            *Begin Spoiler Space*

            blah blah blah blah blah

            lalalalalalalalala

            de doo doo doo, de da da da is all I want to say to you~


            If I had a hammer, I'd hammer in the morning! I'd hammer in the evening!

            over this land!
            Mareseatoats
            Andlittlelambseativy
            Akid'lleativytoo,
            If the words sound queer
            And funny to your ear
            And a little bit jumbled and jivy
            Sing Mares Eat Oats
            And Does Eat Oats
            And Little Lambs Eat Ivy

            *End Spoiler Space*


            I finished the book up yesterday. I have to say that while I like the book and as usual Lynn's writing was good, I found this book lacking in comparison to the previous ones. Perhaps because it was more a tying up of loose ends than a full-on high-stakes tale of it's own.
            Compared to the earlier books, Alec, Micum and Seregil seem to skate through this one, with very little actually hindering them. And because of this I don't think I was as invested in the book as I have been with previous ones. I don't think anyone can debate the fact that these characters shine the most when under extreme stress and I look forward to seeing what new and interesting enemies Lynn will devise now that Ulan is gone. I sort of hope that Ilar/Khenir will turn up again, perhaps in Rhiminee to throw another wrench in the gears. ;)

            I had also hoped for a bit more about the ongoing war with Plenimar and Skalan/Aurenfaie politics. And Thero! He's swiftly becoming equally as fascinating as Alec and Seregil. What about his experience at sarikali? I wonder when that will come into play?

            Anyway - overall an enjoyable though less nail-biting book and I'm quite happy with it.

            --- In Flewelling@yahoogroups.com, "Mercury" <demosthenesmercury@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            >
            > --- In Flewelling@yahoogroups.com, Marleens Yoga <marleensyoga@> wrote:
            > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > *Begin Spoiler Space*
            > > >
            > > > blah blah blah blah blah
            > > >
            > > > lalalalalalalalala
            > > >
            > > > de doo doo doo, de da da da is all I want to say to you~
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > If I had a hammer, I'd hammer in the morning! I'd hammer in the evening!
            > > > All
            > > > over this land!
            > > >
            > > > Mareseatoats
            > > > Andoeseatoats
            > > > Andlittlelambseativy
            > > > Akid'lleativytoo,
            > > > How bout you?
            > > > If the words sound queer
            > > > And funny to your ear
            > > > And a little bit jumbled and jivy
            > > > Sing Mares Eat Oats
            > > > And Does Eat Oats
            > > > And Little Lambs Eat Ivy
            > > >
            > > > *End Spoiler Space*
            > > >
            > > >
            >
            > I just want to say that I really loved white road except for two things.
            > first I really felt like shadows return and white road where meant to be one book. But that's fine as long as you read them back to back. The only other thing was the Retha noi battle. I love the Retha noi so it made me very sad they were the enemy in the end. I know the mother and Illoir can't always be hanging out and seeing eye to eye, but it would have been nice to have confrontation with the Retha noi without the slaughter. That just turned my stomach when Lynn described them dying. But then again, even though I didn't like it, it was still great writing.
            > -Mercury
            >
          • Tawariel
            Hello everybody, I ll be gone for the weekend. My little niece is getting married (and now I m officially an old spinster...). Be nice to each other and if
            Message 5 of 9 , Jun 3, 2010
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              Hello everybody,
              I'll be gone for the weekend. My little niece is getting married (and
              now I'm officially an old spinster...).

              Be nice to each other and if there is a problem, please contact Hellen
              or one of the other moderators.
              I should be back late Sunday evening.

              Have a nice weekend too.

              Tawariel
            • Faery
              Have a nice week-end ol auntie ! :-) Enjoy the wedding !
              Message 6 of 9 , Jun 4, 2010
              • 0 Attachment
                Have a nice week-end ol'auntie ! :-) Enjoy the wedding !

                --- In Flewelling@yahoogroups.com, Tawariel <tawariel@...> wrote:
                >
                > Hello everybody,
                > I'll be gone for the weekend. My little niece is getting married (and
                > now I'm officially an old spinster...).
                >
                > Be nice to each other and if there is a problem, please contact Hellen
                > or one of the other moderators.
                > I should be back late Sunday evening.
                >
                > Have a nice weekend too.
                >
                > Tawariel
                >
              • Lynn
                ... It was supposed to. It was tragic all way around. Religion can be a terrible thing.
                Message 7 of 9 , Jun 5, 2010
                • 0 Attachment
                  --- In Flewelling@yahoogroups.com, "Mercury" <demosthenesmercury@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In Flewelling@yahoogroups.com, Marleens Yoga <marleensyoga@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > *Begin Spoiler Space*
                  > > >
                  > > > blah blah blah blah blah
                  > > >
                  > > > lalalalalalalalala
                  > > >
                  > > > de doo doo doo, de da da da is all I want to say to you~
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > If I had a hammer, I'd hammer in the morning! I'd hammer in the evening!
                  > > > All
                  > > > over this land!
                  > > >
                  > > > Mareseatoats
                  > > > Andoeseatoats
                  > > > Andlittlelambseativy
                  > > > Akid'lleativytoo,
                  > > > How bout you?
                  > > > If the words sound queer
                  > > > And funny to your ear
                  > > > And a little bit jumbled and jivy
                  > > > Sing Mares Eat Oats
                  > > > And Does Eat Oats
                  > > > And Little Lambs Eat Ivy
                  > > >
                  > > > *End Spoiler Space*
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  >
                  > I just want to say that I really loved white road except for two things.
                  > first I really felt like shadows return and white road where meant to be one book. But that's fine as long as you read them back to back. The only other thing was the Retha noi battle. I love the Retha noi so it made me very sad they were the enemy in the end. I know the mother and Illoir can't always be hanging out and seeing eye to eye, but it would have been nice to have confrontation with the Retha noi without the slaughter. That just turned my stomach when Lynn described them dying.


                  It was supposed to. It was tragic all way around. Religion can be a terrible thing.
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