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Re: [Flewelling] Mistakes in translated versions!

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  • wacwil
    I m an Aussie (Not that that s probably relevant, but hello fallow Aussie member. :) ), and I m learning Japanese, don t know enough to actually read Lynn s
    Message 1 of 15 , Jul 10, 2009
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      I'm an Aussie (Not that that's probably relevant, but hello fallow Aussie member. :) ), and I'm learning Japanese, don't know enough to actually read Lynn's books yet, just bits and pieces of comic books cause they have very little Kanji, but I did buy the series in Japanese so that I could have something to aim for other then visiting Japan.

      Anyway, if I can start to read them soon, I'll keep my eyes open for the Alec thing. And hope you're drinking Party went well, I think it kind of shows that it did in your e-mail. :)

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Kevin Bartlett
      To: Flewelling@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 6:33 AM
      Subject: [Flewelling] Mistakes in translated versions!







      Hi All,'
      I would just like to say that I have been a member of this group for 4 years but have never sent a message ( I am really self concious). I just wanted to write that I read the first 3 books ( that are stand alone!!!! as Lynn makes so obvious...HAHA!) ld like to say that the Japanese translations of the series make Alec a female (being a qualified Australian who has lives in Japan for the past 4 years as an interpreter/translator, I can say this with confidence,,,,,,even thou I just got back from a Drinking party!!!).

      I just wanted to bring to the attention of the board, that being a nigntwatcher addict( read all four and pre ordered the 5th!! as well as the Tormarlin series), I was disappointed with the Japanese translation which in some cases translates both the plot and the character history differently to the original is somewhat of a disappointment. A remarkable story that translates such a wonderful story differently to the original to please cultural and social sterieotypes is a disappointment to someone who spends his life trying to bridge cultural gaps. To be honest I dont think that most people on this board can speak and/ or read Japanese, but I thought it would be interesting to bring this topic up for discussion. (please comment with both your opinions and judegements!!!)

      Finally a personal note to Mrs Flewelling, I flew to>>>>>>(ask if you want to know where) (first and only time to America) on my holidays to get a signature from you on at least the cover of stalkng darkness ( which I must say is my favorite) and was disappointed that I couldnt at least say my heartfelt thanks as both a fan and a homosexual male who came out to his parents throuh your series! and flew to America for the sole purpose of getting your signature!! Yes I know its hard to please all and let me apologize for the abruptness of this message!!!) I know that the world of publishing is tougher than most think ( as I interpret for an international publishing house) but was wondering if you planned any international visits to Asia for book promotion? I am still dying for your signature?

      Sorry again and look forward to any replies (if I get any!!)

      Kevin (25 y.o, Australian in Japan)



      ________________________________
      From: Tawariel <tawariel@...>
      To: Flewelling@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Friday, 10 July, 2009 1:52:45 PM
      Subject: Re: [Flewelling] whats going on?!?

      The Goddess told us in April that the publishing date has been pushed
      back due to more work on the book.
      Sorry.
      But that gives you more time to re-read all the other Nightrunner books
      and maybe the Tamir trilogy as well.
      Silver lining, eh? ;-)

      Tawariel

      chandria03 schrieb:
      > i just went on to borders.com and they have white road listed as not coming out til feb 2010.is it really being pushed back again?i dont think i can wait that much longer.please someone tell me that they're wrong...

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    • Tina
      Dude, what? Where the heck does it say Alec is a girl? I m no expert in Japanese, only studied for a couple years and don t know a lot of kanji. But just
      Message 2 of 15 , Jul 10, 2009
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        Dude, what? Where the heck does it say Alec is a girl? I'm no expert in Japanese, only studied for a couple years and don't know a lot of kanji. But just glancing at the first book I saw no reference to him being female, lots of references to men and 'the two men', the illustrations of him are definitely male, and right there on the back cover it refers to him as a 'shounen'. I'm not trying to insult your Japanese, just honestly curious as I didn't get that from the books I have.

        --- On Fri, 7/10/09, Kevin Bartlett <kevinab_17@...> wrote:

        From: Kevin Bartlett <kevinab_17@...>
        Subject: [Flewelling] Mistakes in translated versions!
        To: Flewelling@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Friday, July 10, 2009, 2:03 PM





















        Hi All,'

         I would just like to say that I have been a member of this group for 4 years but have never sent a message ( I am really self concious). I just wanted to write that I read the first 3 books ( that are stand alone!!!! as Lynn makes so obvious...HAHA! ) ld like to say that the Japanese translations of  the series make Alec a female (being a qualified Australian who has lives in Japan for the past 4 years as an interpreter/ translator,  I can say this with confidence,, ,,,,even thou I just got back from a Drinking party!!!).



        I just wanted to bring to the attention of the board, that being a nigntwatcher addict( read all four and pre ordered the 5th!! as well as the Tormarlin series), I was disappointed with the Japanese translation which in some cases translates both the plot and the character history differently to the original is somewhat of a disappointment.  A remarkable story that translates such a wonderful story differently to the original to please cultural and social sterieotypes is a disappointment to someone who spends his life trying to bridge cultural gaps. To be honest I dont think that most people on this board can speak and/ or read Japanese, but I thought it would be interesting to bring this topic up for discussion. (please comment with both your opinions and judegements! !!)



        Finally a personal note to Mrs Flewelling, I flew to>>>>>>(ask if you want to know where) (first and only time to America) on my holidays to get a signature from you on at least the cover of stalkng darkness ( which I must say is my favorite) and was disappointed that I couldnt at least say my heartfelt thanks as both a fan and a homosexual male who came out to his parents throuh your series! and flew to America for the sole purpose of getting your signature!! Yes I know its hard to please all and let me apologize for the abruptness of this message!!!) I know that the world of publishing is tougher than most think ( as I interpret for an international publishing house) but was wondering if you planned any international visits to Asia for book promotion? I am still dying for your signature?



        Sorry again and look forward to any replies (if I get any!!)



        Kevin (25 y.o, Australian in Japan)



         



        ____________ _________ _________ __

        From: Tawariel <tawariel@gmx. net>

        To: Flewelling@yahoogro ups.com

        Sent: Friday, 10 July, 2009 1:52:45 PM

        Subject: Re: [Flewelling] whats going on?!?



        The Goddess told us in April that the publishing date has been pushed

        back due to more work on the book.

        Sorry.

        But that gives you more time to re-read all the other Nightrunner books

        and maybe the Tamir trilogy as well.

        Silver lining, eh? ;-)



        Tawariel



        chandria03 schrieb:

        > i just went on to borders.com and they have white road listed as not coming out til feb 2010.is it really being pushed back again?i dont think i can wait that much longer.please someone tell me that they're wrong...



        ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _

        Access Yahoo!7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere.

        Show me how: http://au.mobile yahoo.com/ mail



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]































        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Tawariel
        Hey everybody, just a quick reminder to everybody that when you reply to a post, please cut the quoted message to the referred to parts. Endless repeats of
        Message 3 of 15 , Jul 10, 2009
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          Hey everybody,
          just a quick reminder to everybody that when you reply to a post, please
          cut the quoted message to the referred to parts. Endless repeats of
          already replied to messages are taking up space and they are a nuisance
          to read for our members who are on "daily digest".

          Thanks for your attention. :-)
          Tawariel
          (putting the soap box away again)
        • lynn.flewelling
          ... I m afraid it s true.
          Message 4 of 15 , Jul 10, 2009
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            --- In Flewelling@yahoogroups.com, "chandria03" <chandria03@...> wrote:
            >
            > i just went on to borders.com and they have white road listed as not coming out til feb 2010.is it really being pushed back again?i dont think i can wait that much longer.please someone tell me that they're wrong...
            >

            I'm afraid it's true.
          • lynn.flewelling
            ... That s the first time I ve heard that! 8-O ... Good heavens! What was your plan? Did you try to attend a scheduled signing and couldn t get in or
            Message 5 of 15 , Jul 10, 2009
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              --- In Flewelling@yahoogroups.com, Kevin Bartlett <kevinab_17@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              >
              > Hi All,'
              >  I would just like to say that I have been a member of this group for 4 years but have never sent a message ( I am really self concious). I just wanted to write that I read the first 3 books ( that are stand alone!!!! as Lynn makes so obvious...HAHA!) ld like to say that the Japanese translations of  the series make Alec a female (being a qualified Australian who has lives in Japan for the past 4 years as an interpreter/translator, I can say this with confidence,,,,,,even thou I just got back from a Drinking party!!!).

              That's the first time I've heard that! 8-O
              >

              >
              > Finally a personal note to Mrs Flewelling, I flew to>>>>>>(ask if you want to know where) (first and only time to America) on my holidays to get a signature from you on at least the cover of stalkng darkness ( which I must say is my favorite) and was disappointed that I couldnt at least say my heartfelt thanks as both a fan and a homosexual male who came out to his parents throuh your series! and flew to America for the sole purpose of getting your signature!! Yes I know its hard to please all and let me apologize for the abruptness of this message!!!) I know that the world of publishing is tougher than most think ( as I interpret for an international publishing house) but was wondering if you planned any international visits to Asia for book promotion? I am still dying for your signature?


              Good heavens! What was your plan? Did you try to attend a scheduled signing and couldn't get in or something? At any rate, if all else fails, I will sign any book (of my own, of course) that is sent to me with adequate return postage and mailer. Barring that, I can also just sign bookplates (stickers you can paste in the front of your copies) for the price of a self addressed stamped envelop. My mailing address is PO Box 162, Redlands, CA 92374 USA.

              I'd be more than happy to do either. Sorry I missed you!
            • chandria03
              why though? how come this keeps happening?i was so looking forward to getting it in september.now what will i read til then?
              Message 6 of 15 , Jul 11, 2009
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                why though? how come this keeps happening?i was so looking forward to getting it in september.now what will i read til then?
              • Katie
                I wrote a paper on the translation of the Nightrunner series into Japanese last year with a colleague, and although we felt that there are several characters
                Message 7 of 15 , Jul 13, 2009
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                  I wrote a paper on the translation of the Nightrunner series into Japanese last year with a colleague, and although we felt that there are several characters who suffer somewhat from being moulded into Japanese gender roles, it is certainly not the case that Alec has become female!

                  The level of language used for Alec's interactions with others is quite polite and conveys an innocence and youth about his character, it becomes somewhat odd when he continues to use this type of language with Seregil even after they become close friends, and then lovers and we examined this choice in relation to the Japanese tradition of gay male couples requiring a more 'feminine/submissive' partner in the relationship who is usually younger. So, yes, Alec does come across a bit differently in Japanese than in English, but that is always the translator's dilemma - trying to find a middle ground between a 'faithful' translation which the target audience will not understand/engage with, or going too far to the extremes and overlaying too much of the target culture's social norms onto the characters.

                  In our opinion, the translator did quite a good job of conveying the social relationships and gender roles of most characters, but Alec and Beka both read as more feminine than the English original suggests, and this is due to the fact that they don't fit into conventional character roles. Micum, Nysander etc are all very well conveyed.

                  Neither myself nor my colleague (native Japanese speaker), having read the full (to date) series in both languages, noticed any overt 'mistranslations' of plot or character background, at least, none that come to mind - could you please give examples of where you believe this to be the case?

                  (Basis for my opinion is 15+ years of studying Japanese, several years spent living in Japan & currently a lecturer in Japanese.)

                  --- In Flewelling@yahoogroups.com, Kevin Bartlett <kevinab_17@...> wrote:

                  > I just wanted to bring to the attention of the board, that being a nigntwatcher addict( read all four and pre ordered the 5th!! as well as the Tormarlin series), I was disappointed with the Japanese translation which in some cases translates both the plot and the character history differently to the original is somewhat of a disappointment.  A remarkable story that translates such a wonderful story differently to the original to please cultural and social sterieotypes is a disappointment to someone who spends his life trying to bridge cultural gaps. To be honest I dont think that most people on this board can speak and/ or read Japanese, but I thought it would be interesting to bring this topic up for discussion. (please comment with both your opinions and judegements!!!)
                  >
                • wacwil
                  Can I be you? I m still only just learning, and it s only bee about 6 months... but...I can only aford one lesson aweek and whatever time I have spear. ^^;;;
                  Message 8 of 15 , Jul 13, 2009
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                    Can I be you? I'm still only just learning, and it's only bee about 6 months... but...I can only aford one lesson aweek and whatever time I have spear. ^^;;; I'd love to have time to study more so that I can read Lynns books and go to Japan to teach etc.

                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: Katie
                    To: Flewelling@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 9:25 PM
                    Subject: [Flewelling] Re: Mistakes in translated versions!

                    (Basis for my opinion is 15+ years of studying Japanese, several years spent living in Japan & currently a lecturer in Japanese.)

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • lynn.flewelling
                    ... That s amazing! and although we felt that there are several characters who suffer somewhat from being moulded into Japanese gender roles, it is certainly
                    Message 9 of 15 , Jul 13, 2009
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                      --- In Flewelling@yahoogroups.com, "Katie" <ceo_arach@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > I wrote a paper on the translation of the Nightrunner series into Japanese last year with a colleague,

                      That's amazing!




                      and although we felt that there are several characters who suffer somewhat from being moulded into Japanese gender roles, it is certainly not the case that Alec has become female!
                      >
                      > The level of language used for Alec's interactions with others is quite polite and conveys an innocence and youth about his character, it becomes somewhat odd when he continues to use this type of language with Seregil even after they become close friends, and then lovers and we examined this choice in relation to the Japanese tradition of gay male couples requiring a more 'feminine/submissive' partner in the relationship who is usually younger. So, yes, Alec does come across a bit differently in Japanese than in English, but that is always the translator's dilemma - trying to find a middle ground between a 'faithful' translation which the target audience will not understand/engage with, or going too far to the extremes and overlaying too much of the target culture's social norms onto the characters.
                      >
                      > In our opinion, the translator did quite a good job of conveying the social relationships and gender roles of most characters, but Alec and Beka both read as more feminine than the English original suggests, and this is due to the fact that they don't fit into conventional character roles. Micum, Nysander etc are all very well conveyed.
                      >
                      > Neither myself nor my colleague (native Japanese speaker), having read the full (to date) series in both languages, noticed any overt 'mistranslations' of plot or character background, at least, none that come to mind - could you please give examples of where you believe this to be the case?
                      >
                      > (Basis for my opinion is 15+ years of studying Japanese, several years spent living in Japan & currently a lecturer in Japanese.)
                      >
                      > --- In Flewelling@yahoogroups.com, Kevin Bartlett <kevinab_17@> wrote:
                      >
                      > > I just wanted to bring to the attention of the board, that being a nigntwatcher addict( read all four and pre ordered the 5th!! as well as the Tormarlin series), I was disappointed with the Japanese translation which in some cases translates both the plot and the character history differently to the original is somewhat of a disappointment.  A remarkable story that translates such a wonderful story differently to the original to please cultural and social sterieotypes is a disappointment to someone who spends his life trying to bridge cultural gaps. To be honest I dont think that most people on this board can speak and/ or read Japanese, but I thought it would be interesting to bring this topic up for discussion. (please comment with both your opinions and judegements!!!)
                      > >
                      >
                    • wolfsbabe_84@roadrunner.com
                      opps sorry that wasn t supposed to go to the list! just Tawariel. Sorry!!
                      Message 10 of 15 , Jul 16, 2009
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                        opps sorry that wasn't supposed to go to the list! just Tawariel. Sorry!!

                        ---- Brenda <wolfsbabe_84@...> wrote:
                        > hey just wanted to let you know I'm going on vacation. I don't think my email will bounce but just in case....it's because I'm on vacation. I'll be gone for 10 days
                        >
                        > ----- Original Message -----
                        > From: Tawariel
                        > To: Flewelling@yahoogroups.com
                        > Sent: Thursday, July 09, 2009 9:52 PM
                        > Subject: Re: [Flewelling] whats going on?!?
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > The Goddess told us in April that the publishing date has been pushed
                        > back due to more work on the book.
                        > Sorry.
                        > But that gives you more time to re-read all the other Nightrunner books
                        > and maybe the Tamir trilogy as well.
                        > Silver lining, eh? ;-)
                        >
                        > Tawariel
                        >
                        > chandria03 schrieb:
                        > > i just went on to borders.com and they have white road listed as not coming out til feb 2010.is it really being pushed back again?i dont think i can wait that much longer.please someone tell me that they're wrong...
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
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