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Re: [Flewelling] Red vs. Blue

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  • Gaile Pohlhaus
    The seventeen states that went for Kerry run on the East Coast from Maine to Maryland (including Pennsylvania) and the three states on the West Coast
    Message 1 of 18 , Nov 3, 2004
      The seventeen states that went for Kerry run on the East Coast from
      Maine to Maryland (including Pennsylvania) and the three states on the
      West Coast (California, Oregon, Washington). Everything in the middle
      and the south seems to have gone for Bush.
      Gaile

      Dianna C wrote:

      > That's what I've been hearing too. Some of the states had record
      > Republican turn out because of ballot initiatives to ban gay marriage.
      > People voted for Bush on "moral" grounds...because he is against gay
      > marriage and abortion (but abortion has always been an issue--even with
      > Clinton/Gore, so the only new issue this time was gay marriage). They
      > certainly didn't vote for him because of issues like Iraq, Education,
      > Jobs, Healthcare, etc (at least according to the exit polls, where Bush
      > had low scores on those issues).
      >
      > Banning gay marriage must have been a big issue for a lot of people...
      >
      > Dianna
      > *shakes head in amazement*
      >
      > > -----Original Message-----
      > > From: Iona [mailto:ionabartlett@...]
      > > Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2004 9:33 AM
      > >
      > > They're saying over here (the UK) that if Bush wins it, it will be
      > because
      > > of his stance on abortion and gay marriage. Is the same message coming
      > out
      > > elsewhere?
      > >
      > > Iona
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
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      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Dianna C
      ... Ah, but he does have a lot of power over moral issues because he appoints the supreme court nominees that will be approved by the Republican congress. He
      Message 2 of 18 , Nov 3, 2004
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: Gnine [mailto:jmk69@...]
        > Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2004 10:25 AM
        > As another first time voter, I hear that. So very very depressing. I
        > think one of the worst parts is the president in the end has very
        > little control over such "moral issues".

        Ah, but he does have a lot of power over "moral issues" because he
        appoints the supreme court nominees that will be approved by the
        Republican congress. He can/will appoint extremely conservative judges
        (like he has already done with the lower courts)--they say that as many
        as 4-6 supreme court justices may retire (or die of old age) within the
        next 4 years. The supreme court then rules on things such as abortion,
        gay marriage, civil rights, etc.

        Dianna
      • Jeffrey Alger
        Do not forget the upper midwest....we went for Kerry as well. Minnesota has voted Democrat since like the 70 s or something like that. The longest time
        Message 3 of 18 , Nov 3, 2004
          Do not forget the upper midwest....we went for Kerry as well. Minnesota has
          voted Democrat since like the 70's or something like that. The longest time
          period for any state to vote for one party. I do believe we were the only
          state that voted for Mondale in that election in the 80's. We are also the
          state that voted a former professional wrestler in as governor running as an
          independent. And all I have to say about that is Jesse Ventura for
          president!!!!


          Quoting Gaile Pohlhaus <gaile.pohlhaus@...>:

          >
          > The seventeen states that went for Kerry run on the East Coast from
          > Maine to Maryland (including Pennsylvania) and the three states on the
          > West Coast (California, Oregon, Washington). Everything in the middle
          > and the south seems to have gone for Bush.
          > Gaile
          >
          > Dianna C wrote:
          >
          > > That's what I've been hearing too. Some of the states had record
          > > Republican turn out because of ballot initiatives to ban gay marriage.
          > > People voted for Bush on "moral" grounds...because he is against gay
          > > marriage and abortion (but abortion has always been an issue--even with
          > > Clinton/Gore, so the only new issue this time was gay marriage). They
          > > certainly didn't vote for him because of issues like Iraq, Education,
          > > Jobs, Healthcare, etc (at least according to the exit polls, where Bush
          > > had low scores on those issues).
          > >
          > > Banning gay marriage must have been a big issue for a lot of people...
          > >
          > > Dianna
          > > *shakes head in amazement*
          > >
          > > > -----Original Message-----
          > > > From: Iona [mailto:ionabartlett@...]
          > > > Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2004 9:33 AM
          > > >
          > > > They're saying over here (the UK) that if Bush wins it, it will be
          > > because
          > > > of his stance on abortion and gay marriage. Is the same message coming
          > > out
          > > > elsewhere?
          > > >
          > > > Iona
          > > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Lynn's official web-site - www.sff.net/people/Lynn.Flewelling
          > >
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        • Gaile Pohlhaus
          Please forgive me for my oversight. All that red got to me. Another point which I think is accurate is that the only Catholic plurality state which didn t
          Message 4 of 18 , Nov 3, 2004
            Please forgive me for my oversight. All that red got to me. Another
            point which I think is accurate is that the only "Catholic plurality
            state " which didn't vote for Kerry was Louisiana.
            Gaile

            Jeffrey Alger wrote:

            > Do not forget the upper midwest....we went for Kerry as well.
            > Minnesota has
            > voted Democrat since like the 70's or something like that. The
            > longest time
            > period for any state to vote for one party. I do believe we were the only
            > state that voted for Mondale in that election in the 80's. We are
            > also the
            > state that voted a former professional wrestler in as governor running
            > as an
            > independent. And all I have to say about that is Jesse Ventura for
            > president!!!!
            >
            >
            > Quoting Gaile Pohlhaus <gaile.pohlhaus@...>:
            >
            > >
            > > The seventeen states that went for Kerry run on the East Coast from
            > > Maine to Maryland (including Pennsylvania) and the three states on the
            > > West Coast (California, Oregon, Washington). Everything in the middle
            > > and the south seems to have gone for Bush.
            > > Gaile
            > >
            > > Dianna C wrote:
            > >
            > > > That's what I've been hearing too. Some of the states had record
            > > > Republican turn out because of ballot initiatives to ban gay marriage.
            > > > People voted for Bush on "moral" grounds...because he is against gay
            > > > marriage and abortion (but abortion has always been an issue--even
            > with
            > > > Clinton/Gore, so the only new issue this time was gay marriage). They
            > > > certainly didn't vote for him because of issues like Iraq, Education,
            > > > Jobs, Healthcare, etc (at least according to the exit polls, where
            > Bush
            > > > had low scores on those issues).
            > > >
            > > > Banning gay marriage must have been a big issue for a lot of people...
            > > >
            > > > Dianna
            > > > *shakes head in amazement*
            > > >
            > > > > -----Original Message-----
            > > > > From: Iona [mailto:ionabartlett@...]
            > > > > Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2004 9:33 AM
            > > > >
            > > > > They're saying over here (the UK) that if Bush wins it, it will be
            > > > because
            > > > > of his stance on abortion and gay marriage. Is the same message
            > coming
            > > > out
            > > > > elsewhere?
            > > > >
            > > > > Iona
            > > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Lynn's official web-site - www.sff.net/people/Lynn.Flewelling
            > > >
            > > > Post message: Flewelling@yahoogroups.com
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            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • jjarbanas
            It s not just the presidential race, either. Democrats lost lots of congressional seats, too, including the Senate minority leader, Tom Daschle -- the first
            Message 5 of 18 , Nov 3, 2004
              It's not just the presidential race, either. Democrats lost lots of
              congressional seats, too, including the Senate minority leader, Tom
              Daschle -- the first Senate party leader in more than 50 years to be
              voted out of office. That means W wields even more power than he did,
              because there are fewer Democrats to filibuster and check his agenda.

              And it all seems to have come down to abortion and gay marriage. As
              unbelievable as it sounds, it really should come as no surprise. This
              is a country founded largely by conservative Protestant zealots, and
              253 years later, they're still running it.

              Jill
            • Jessica Fisher
              You may have voted in a professional wrestler as governor, but California (my home state, but I m stuck in Rhode Island for the next 6 years) voted in the
              Message 6 of 18 , Nov 3, 2004
                You may have voted in a professional wrestler as governor, but
                California (my home state, but I'm stuck in Rhode Island for the next 6
                years) voted in the Terminator! Actually, I think for an action hero,
                Arnold has done surprisingly well as governor. Some things are just
                funny though, like how he has a "smoking tent" set up outside (smoking
                is illegal in public places in CA) that looks like some sort of crazy
                middle eastern king's place where you'd find a harem or something.

                I'm also a first-time voter this election . . . but I have a feeling
                that my vote will never make much difference in the presidential race,
                because I just moved from California, which almost always votes
                Democrat, to Rhode Island, which is the same. I was tempted to vote
                for a third party candidate just to give them something, because I
                already knew Rhode Island would go for Kerry.

                Something funny about Rhode Island (I keep finding funny things since
                I'm new to New England) is that when they were announcing the results
                from here on CNN last night, the announcer was like, "And Rhode Island,
                which is in New England, in the Massachusetts area, went for Kerry."
                Like, because nobody knows where Rhode Island is. Then again, one of
                their guys also mistook Mississippi for Louisiana, so who knows what's
                going on behind the scenes?

                ~Jessica

                On Wednesday, November 3, 2004, at 11:21 AM, Jeffrey Alger wrote:

                >
                > Do not forget the upper midwest....we went for Kerry as well.
                > Minnesota has
                > voted Democrat since like the 70's or something like that. The
                > longest time
                > period for any state to vote for one party. I do believe we were the
                > only
                > state that voted for Mondale in that election in the 80's. We are
                > also the
                > state that voted a former professional wrestler in as governor running
                > as an
                > independent. And all I have to say about that is Jesse Ventura for
                > president!!!!
                >
                >
                > Quoting Gaile Pohlhaus <gaile.pohlhaus@...>:
                >
                >>
                >> The seventeen states that went for Kerry run on the East Coast from
                >> Maine to Maryland (including Pennsylvania) and the three states on
                >> the
                >> West Coast (California, Oregon, Washington). Everything in the middle
                >> and the south seems to have gone for Bush.
                >> Gaile
                >>
                >> Dianna C wrote:
                >>
                >>> That's what I've been hearing too. Some of the states had record
                >>> Republican turn out because of ballot initiatives to ban gay
                >>> marriage.
                >>> People voted for Bush on "moral" grounds...because he is against gay
                >>> marriage and abortion (but abortion has always been an issue--even
                >>> with
                >>> Clinton/Gore, so the only new issue this time was gay marriage). They
                >>> certainly didn't vote for him because of issues like Iraq, Education,
                >>> Jobs, Healthcare, etc (at least according to the exit polls, where
                >>> Bush
                >>> had low scores on those issues).
                >>>
                >>> Banning gay marriage must have been a big issue for a lot of
                >>> people...
                >>>
                >>> Dianna
                >>> *shakes head in amazement*
                >>>
                >>>> -----Original Message-----
                >>>> From: Iona [mailto:ionabartlett@...]
                >>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2004 9:33 AM
                >>>>
                >>>> They're saying over here (the UK) that if Bush wins it, it will be
                >>> because
                >>>> of his stance on abortion and gay marriage. Is the same message
                >>>> coming
                >>> out
                >>>> elsewhere?
                >>>>
                >>>> Iona
                >>>>
                >>>
                >>>
                >>>
                >>>
                >>>
                >>>
                >>> Lynn's official web-site - www.sff.net/people/Lynn.Flewelling
                >>>
                >>> Post message: Flewelling@yahoogroups.com
                >>> Subscribe: Flewelling-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
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                >>> List owner: Flewelling-owner@yahoogroups.com
                >>> URL to this page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Flewelling
                >>>
                >>>
                >>>
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                >>
                >>
                >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >> Lynn's official web-site - www.sff.net/people/Lynn.Flewelling
                >>
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                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
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              • jjarbanas
                ... Sorry, but as someone living in CA, I have to disagree. He s made it clear he s on the side of businesses and profits. Period. He ripped the guts out of
                Message 7 of 18 , Nov 3, 2004
                  --- In Flewelling@yahoogroups.com, Jessica Fisher
                  <Jessica_Fisher@b...> wrote:

                  > Actually, I think for an action hero, Arnold has done surprisingly
                  > well as governor.

                  Sorry, but as someone living in CA, I have to disagree. He's made it
                  clear he's on the side of businesses and profits. Period. He ripped
                  the guts out of workers' comp so that injured workers are now
                  completely screwed by the system (as if it wasn't bad enough
                  before!). And those changes were supposed to save money. Well, now
                  that they've realized they're not saving any money (because it wasn't
                  injured workers screwing the state, it was and is the insurance
                  companies), it's too late.

                  Jill
                • lynn_flewelling
                  ... First, congrats on voting! Don t let the fact that things didn t turned out the way you hoped drive you to apathy. That will only make things worse. Keep
                  Message 8 of 18 , Nov 3, 2004
                    --- In Flewelling@yahoogroups.com, "Rebecca" <rebecca_neris@y...> wrote:
                    >
                    > I am really upset for the results. I seriously feel the apathy
                    > against voting will return. The record was broken but it did not
                    > make a difference. Bush still won. It was pretty close but it still
                    > doesn't matter. Four more years seems like an eternity. I speak for
                    > myself and a lot of young people that voted for the first time, and
                    > I say that if I thought little of politics and politicians before
                    > right now I say that I don't believe in them period. I am tired of
                    > the war and of the way the economy was handled. What is his plan to
                    > make it better? I just don't see it.
                    >
                    > As for the abortion and Gay marriage... will it never end? Will we
                    > still be discriminated against and taken our rights away? I don't
                    > know why he won but it really doesn't matter anymore, he did and now
                    > we have to deal with it.
                    >
                    > Becca

                    First, congrats on voting! Don't let the fact that things didn't turned out the way you hoped
                    drive you to apathy. That will only make things worse. Keep voting. Find out what your
                    Congress person's address is and badger them on a regular basis. Get involved. Keep
                    yourself informed.

                    You know why the Republicans won? Because they do all of the above , and historically are
                    far better about it than Democrats. Win or lose, everyone needs to participate.

                    End of sermon. ;-)
                  • lynn_flewelling
                    Here s a good commentary by Willliam Saletan in Slate magazine. http://www.slate.com/id/2109128/
                    Message 9 of 18 , Nov 3, 2004
                      Here's a good commentary by Willliam Saletan in Slate magazine.

                      http://www.slate.com/id/2109128/
                    • Alexandra Y. Kwan
                      Hello, ... But that has something to do with basic Democrat vs. Republican beliefs, too. Republicans take it upon themselves to change how the country is run
                      Message 10 of 18 , Nov 3, 2004
                        Hello,

                        --- lynn_flewelling <otterdance2@...> wrote:

                        > You know why the Republicans won? Because they do
                        > all of the above , and historically are
                        > far better about it than Democrats. Win or lose,
                        > everyone needs to participate.

                        But that has something to do with basic Democrat vs.
                        Republican beliefs, too. Republicans take it upon
                        themselves to change how the country is run mostly
                        because they don't trust the government that much.
                        Democrats, otoh, place a higher trust on the
                        government; combine that with the "live and let live"
                        attitude...

                        little Alex

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                      • Anja Arendt
                        I am really sad about the results of the elections. Kerry may have been no more than the lesser evil, not a dream candidate, but at least he stands for a more
                        Message 11 of 18 , Nov 4, 2004
                          I am really sad about the results of the elections. Kerry may have been
                          no more than the lesser evil, not a dream candidate, but at least he
                          stands for a more liberal party with more modern attitudes towards
                          life.

                          It really sucks that the sour moralists should be so powerful in a
                          country. Same as the fact, that for the first time in ages, german
                          extreme right wing parties have recently gained seats in a state
                          parliament (I don't know the right word for it). It shows more than
                          clearly that these kind of people are always there and are not to be
                          underestimated. Social Enlightement and Freedom is a thing that needs
                          care and vigilance, sadly it doesn't just stay once it is achieved on
                          some levels.

                          Fire


                          Am 04.11.2004 um 03:57 schrieb Alexandra Y. Kwan:

                          >
                          > Hello,
                          >
                          > --- lynn_flewelling <otterdance2@...> wrote:
                          >
                          >> You know why the Republicans won? Because they do
                          >> all of the above , and historically are
                          >> far better about it than Democrats. Win or lose,
                          >> everyone needs to participate.
                          >
                          > But that has something to do with basic Democrat vs.
                          > Republican beliefs, too. Republicans take it upon
                          > themselves to change how the country is run mostly
                          > because they don't trust the government that much.
                          > Democrats, otoh, place a higher trust on the
                          > government; combine that with the "live and let live"
                          > attitude...
                          >
                          > little Alex
                          >
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                        • Purchase Family
                          Yes, and in Oz, our two-brain-celled Prime Minister was re-elected with an increased majority. Sigh. Reminds me of living in South Africa under the Nasty
                          Message 12 of 18 , Nov 4, 2004
                            Yes, and in Oz, our two-brain-celled Prime Minister was re-elected with an increased majority.

                            Sigh. Reminds me of living in South Africa under the Nasty Party.

                            Nigel
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: Anja Arendt
                            To: Flewelling@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 10:07 PM
                            Subject: Re: [Flewelling] Re: Red vs. Blue


                            I am really sad about the results of the elections. Kerry may have been
                            no more than the lesser evil, not a dream candidate, but at least he
                            stands for a more liberal party with more modern attitudes towards
                            life.

                            It really sucks that the sour moralists should be so powerful in a
                            country. Same as the fact, that for the first time in ages, german
                            extreme right wing parties have recently gained seats in a state
                            parliament (I don't know the right word for it). It shows more than
                            clearly that these kind of people are always there and are not to be
                            underestimated. Social Enlightement and Freedom is a thing that needs
                            care and vigilance, sadly it doesn't just stay once it is achieved on
                            some levels.

                            Fire


                            Am 04.11.2004 um 03:57 schrieb Alexandra Y. Kwan:

                            >
                            > Hello,
                            >
                            > --- lynn_flewelling <otterdance2@...> wrote:
                            >
                            >> You know why the Republicans won? Because they do
                            >> all of the above , and historically are
                            >> far better about it than Democrats. Win or lose,
                            >> everyone needs to participate.
                            >
                            > But that has something to do with basic Democrat vs.
                            > Republican beliefs, too. Republicans take it upon
                            > themselves to change how the country is run mostly
                            > because they don't trust the government that much.
                            > Democrats, otoh, place a higher trust on the
                            > government; combine that with the "live and let live"
                            > attitude...
                            >
                            > little Alex
                            >
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