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Re: [Flewelling] Re: Relationship Musings

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  • ele
    Em said: to gain a sense that Alec s needs were as important as Seregil s. snip Clearly most readers did not have the same need I did. Not so Em! I have that
    Message 1 of 11 , May 31, 2004
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      Em said:

      to gain a sense that Alec's needs were as important as Seregil's.

      snip

      Clearly most readers did not have the same need I did.

      Not so Em! I have that need too! I just finished reading TM yesterday and I think Seregil owes Alec BIG time for his behavior and treatment of the relationship during TM! Nor do I have the need for more sex scenes, what you have Lynn is perfectly fine for me. I prefer that part of a relationship to be "off screen". (I just howl everytime I think of poor Thero using his "memory"(?) charm on Alec and Seregil's room to disguise the fact that they have left town: "he thought it would be snoring" <lol>)

      I enjoyed all of the levels of intrigue in TM. I was on the edge of my seat throughout the book. And I do realize that professional books aren't often going to have the details of a relationship that I would like to see. But, as someone else posted earlier, the "Seregil is the center of the universe" attitude that both Alec and Seregil seem to share in TM makes for a very unhealthy relationship. Perhaps, if not a few more highlights from the 2 year gap, then a bit longer ending where Seregil spoils Alec a bit and focuses on his needs to show that things are truly on an even keel.

      There is one other thing that stuck with me when reading TM. It was the quote that Alec was given that "he would bare no woman's child." Then at the end of the book Alec and Seregil find the boy in the rubble of their home. I just hope we don't find them raising this boy (or any child) in future novels! I'd rather have a chapter on curtain shopping than that! <g>

      Eve


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • lynn_flewelling
      ... owes Alec BIG time for his behavior and treatment of the relationship during TM! He does! I never said Seregil was an emotionally healthy or stable
      Message 2 of 11 , Jun 1, 2004
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        --- In Flewelling@yahoogroups.com, "ele" <lkoala@s...> wrote:
        > Em said:
        >
        > to gain a sense that Alec's needs were as important as Seregil's.
        >
        > snip
        >
        > Clearly most readers did not have the same need I did.
        >
        > Not so Em! I have that need too! I just finished reading TM yesterday and I think Seregil
        owes Alec BIG time for his behavior and treatment of the relationship during TM!


        He does! I never said Seregil was an emotionally healthy or stable individual. TM shows
        why. But I think by the end he's figured some things out and let things go (that's what the
        "glass orbs" dreams are about, btw) In future book(s) he will be healthier/smarter/more
        self aware. I'm a great believer in characters learning something from what happens to
        them. Just don't expect him to be Mr. Normal.
      • jeff.johnson@ascential.com
        We d have to start calling him Abby then...... :-) Maybe because some of his difficulties resonated with me (and my apologies to those people I have therefore
        Message 3 of 11 , Jun 1, 2004
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          We'd have to start calling him Abby then...... :-)



          Maybe because some of his difficulties resonated with me (and my apologies
          to those people I have therefore shortchanged in the past...), I found
          myself very understanding of Seregil's relationship "shortcomings" in TM. I
          did not have a hard time making the 2 year jump in how their relationship
          was presented. In retrospect, I can see how the disconnect might have been
          troubling for some. I actually preferred the pacing in TM somewhat, and
          like the hints of so many elements that are native to Ms. Flewelling's
          imagination and the LITS/SD/TM world. There lies great promise for future
          stories in some of those elements.



          As for the questions regarding the amount of sex, I think the current level
          has been fine. As was pointed out by someone else, where it helps move plot
          or character forward, I think it is useful and say bravo ! Where it
          doesn't, to me it becomes a voyeuristic distraction to a story. I am
          comfortable with Lynn's balance - just as I would be comfortable if it is
          shown more or less fully in future Alec/Seregil stories - where it is
          germane to the story and its characters. My two cents, and that applies
          whether heterosexual or homosexual sex is involved.



          Jeff



          -----Original Message-----
          From: lynn_flewelling [mailto:otterdance2@...]
          Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2004 11:19 AM
          To: Flewelling@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [Flewelling] Re: Relationship Musings



          --- In Flewelling@yahoogroups.com, "ele" <lkoala@s...> wrote:
          > Em said:
          >
          > to gain a sense that Alec's needs were as important as Seregil's.
          >
          > snip
          >
          > Clearly most readers did not have the same need I did.
          >
          > Not so Em! I have that need too! I just finished reading TM yesterday and
          I think Seregil
          owes Alec BIG time for his behavior and treatment of the relationship during
          TM!


          He does! I never said Seregil was an emotionally healthy or stable
          individual. TM shows
          why. But I think by the end he's figured some things out and let things go
          (that's what the
          "glass orbs" dreams are about, btw) In future book(s) he will be
          healthier/smarter/more
          self aware. I'm a great believer in characters learning something from what
          happens to
          them. Just don't expect him to be Mr. Normal.



          The Flewelling List Chat room can be accessed via the list webpage at Yahoo.
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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • marg_r_w
          ... wrote: Heaven forbid we had a Mr Normal – It wouldn t be Seregil then would it! His flaws and frailties are what make him such an
          Message 4 of 11 , Jun 1, 2004
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            --- In Flewelling@yahoogroups.com, "lynn_flewelling"
            <otterdance2@a...> wrote:

            Heaven forbid we had a Mr Normal – It wouldn't be Seregil then would
            it! His flaws and frailties are what make him such an interesting
            character.

            >
            > He does! I never said Seregil was an emotionally healthy or stable
            individual. TM shows
            > why. But I think by the end he's figured some things out and let
            things go (that's what the
            > "glass orbs" dreams are about, btw) In future book(s) he will be
            healthier/smarter/more
            > self aware. I'm a great believer in characters learning something
            from what happens to
            > them. Just don't expect him to be Mr. Normal.
          • Marcel de Graaff
            Join the club.... That is, I personally find my country reasonably tolerant, but in the Netherlands there was apparantly at one time a publisher who wouldn t
            Message 5 of 11 , Jun 3, 2004
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              Join the club....
              That is, I personally find my country reasonably tolerant, but in the
              Netherlands there was apparantly at one time a publisher who wouldn't publish
              the NR books at all for a similar reason, or so I gathered from Lynn at the
              time when I asked if they would be translated.
              They do publish the Tamir books, though...

              Marcel

              > Well, it seems that the fourth book of NR won't be published here in
              > Italy because after TM the publisher said: "OhmyGod, theyaremen,
              > theyareGAY, and THEYHAVESEX!!!" -___-
              > Sometimes I hate my country...
            • lynn_flewelling
              ... That s correct.
              Message 6 of 11 , Jun 3, 2004
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                --- In Flewelling@yahoogroups.com, "Marcel de Graaff" <marcel@n...> wrote:
                > Join the club....
                > That is, I personally find my country reasonably tolerant, but in the
                > Netherlands there was apparantly at one time a publisher who wouldn't publish
                > the NR books at all for a similar reason, or so I gathered from Lynn at the
                > time when I asked if they would be translated.
                > They do publish the Tamir books, though...
                >
                > Marcel

                That's correct.
              • Purchase Family
                Well, but it s such tasteful sex. I mean, we get no graphic details. What is WRONG with people? Nigel ... From: lynn_flewelling To:
                Message 7 of 11 , Jun 4, 2004
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                  Well, but it's such tasteful sex. I mean, we get no graphic details. What is WRONG with people?

                  Nigel
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: lynn_flewelling
                  To: Flewelling@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2004 10:20 AM
                  Subject: [Flewelling] Re: Relationship Musings


                  Silvia,

                  Grazi for the inside info! I'll pass that along to my agent. I love the "gay--AND they have
                  sex" part. Like it would be almost ok so long as they didn't do that.

                  Lynn

                  --- In Flewelling@yahoogroups.com, Silvia <7thstar@v...> wrote:
                  >
                  > > > Well, it seems that the fourth book of NR won't be published here in
                  > > > Italy because after TM the publisher said: "OhmyGod, theyaremen,
                  > > > theyareGAY, and THEYHAVESEX!!!" -___-
                  > > > Sometimes I hate my country...
                  > > >
                  > > > Silvia
                  > >
                  > >What have you heard, and where? I've had no such news. Then again, I'm
                  > >usually the last to know.
                  > >
                  > >Lynn
                  >
                  > Let's start from the beginning: I know the translator, and she knows the
                  > publisher. Back in 2000, after the publication of TM, we were talking about
                  > a hypothetical fourth book and she told me not to hope to read it in
                  > italian because the publisher didn't like that "The main characters are
                  > gay, and they even have sex. If I had known that, probably I would not have
                  > bought the rights of these books".
                  > (If you are wondering no, he doesn't read the books he decide to publish
                  > because he doesn't know english.)
                  > From then, his publishing house has been taken over by another, but he
                  > is still in charge of buy rights. A few weeks ago, I told my friend (the
                  > translator) that you are planning to write a new NR book, and even if we
                  > were understandably happy, she reminded me of the "gay thing" and here we
                  > are, hoping that he will retire soon...
                  > -_____-
                  >
                  > Silvia



                  The Flewelling List Chat room can be accessed via the list webpage at Yahoo. Click on chat in the menu on the left.
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                • Tawariel
                  Actually, that a kind of statement I have heard before. It okay that they are gay, as long as they don t do it. Talk about hypocritical... (I m talking in
                  Message 8 of 11 , Jun 5, 2004
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                    Actually, that a kind of statement I have heard before.
                    "It okay that they are gay, as long as they don't do it."
                    Talk about hypocritical...
                    (I'm talking in general, not about the publisher.)

                    Tawariel

                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: lynn_flewelling <otterdance2@...>

                    Silvia,

                    Grazi for the inside info! I'll pass that along to my agent. I love the
                    "gay--AND they have
                    sex" part. Like it would be almost ok so long as they didn't do that.

                    Lynn
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