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A couple broken concepts to balance for a Space Opera setting.

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  • aminar_gioco
    Alright. Some background first. In order to expand a world(verse) I m writing in, and to amuse my friends I am DMing a Fatecore campaign in my Space Opera
    Message 1 of 15 , Jul 2, 2013
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      Alright. Some background first. In order to expand a world(verse) I'm writing in, and to amuse my friends I am DMing a Fatecore campaign in my Space Opera setting.
      II am having two issues. These are both fun concepts to play with in writing but a little broken in an RPG.

      The first is my Spacemagic system. It's meant to feel a little like Jedi, and based off of Portal, because I've always wanted to be able to use Portals in combat. This can be taken at character creation using up to 2 starting stunt slots but not 3.

      Gateborn -3 refresh Ability to make gates that connect one location within line of sight to the other gate created by the user. Only two gates may be made at once by any given user. Gates must be made on a flat surface. Can be used as a free action once per round, but require a roll when used against another character or to benefit in combat. These gates treat the zones they reside in as adjacent. Gates are often used to build momentum or redirect objects. Creates Skill-Gateborn. Can be used to defend, attack, create advantage or overcome (Attack and defend in physical combat.)

      Of note, taking this is a little like taking Lawbreaker in the Dresden RPG. A whole bunch of people who have been using their powers longer than you want to hunt you down and kill you.

      The wording there isn't perfectly precise, but it covers the basics and my players know what it's intended to do. I'm not sure this is balanced without my own meddling to make it so.

      The second, and more troubling of the two is one of may alien species. They are 6 inch tall, somewhat arthropodish, humanoid hiveminds called Tyl. 10 Tyl total the intelligence of a human being. Some Hives possess Millions of Tyl. They are from a planet with 4G standard gravity making them exceptionally durable and relatively strong.
      Because these are ratial requirements they can use initial stunt points.

      Mandatory to the template is
      -1 Tiny Size as in the Dresden RPG.
      -1 Chitinous endoskeleton. Provides Armor 1.(adapted from inhuman toughness but cutting off the extra stress boxes)
      -? Hivemind. This power is meant to represent the hives ability to accomplish multiple tasks at once by sending multiple bodies at a task, while also showing the benefits of adding bodies to the hive(increased mental acuity/processing speed) and adding to the hive.
      I have heard two approaches. First My own.
      Hivemind -2
      Abilities included-
      Multitasking-The Hive may perform any number of skill checks at a given time up to the number of Hive members. For every 2 Hive Members below 10 performing or focusing on a task take -1 on the roll.(So a lone Hive member will take -4 on any task.) Focus groups of less than 10 can not make Create Advantage Rolls.
      Focus- For every ten Hive Members focused on a task after the first ten add +1 to the roll. Hive members focusing on a task being performed by another body may not take any actions of their own.
      Reallocating how many Tyl are in a given focus group is done at the beginning of each scene, and cannot be changed until the scene changes.
      All bodies in a single zone must be working on the same task.
      As part of the high concept of being a Tyl Hive there is a predilection towards working in close proximity to each other in stressful situations.
      Subset of power
      Expanded Hive -1 Add Five Tyl to the Hive.

      The other option presented is to adapt Spray attacks to the multiple skill rolls, but that is difficult to do while allowing the Hive to be doing multiple tasks at once because they would be using multiple rolls.

      The worry is that giving a PC the ability to make multiple actions in a round is very easily broken.

      Help me please. And I apologize if I sound touchy on this, It's more that these are my own creation and I really want them to feel right.
    • aminar_gioco
      Crap, missed a pair of rules for the Tyl. The Hive takes mental stress as one, but physical stress separately. Anytime a member of the hive is taken out the
      Message 2 of 15 , Jul 2, 2013
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        Crap, missed a pair of rules for the Tyl.
        The Hive takes mental stress as one, but physical stress separately. Anytime a member of the hive is taken out the Hive takes two mental stress.
        The mental link has a radius of one mile, after which the body begins to wander aimlessly, having the base intelligence of a squirrel.

        --- In FateRPG@yahoogroups.com, "aminar_gioco" <primordiallights@...> wrote:
        >
        > Alright. Some background first. In order to expand a world(verse) I'm writing in, and to amuse my friends I am DMing a Fatecore campaign in my Space Opera setting.
        > II am having two issues. These are both fun concepts to play with in writing but a little broken in an RPG.
        >
        > The first is my Spacemagic system. It's meant to feel a little like Jedi, and based off of Portal, because I've always wanted to be able to use Portals in combat. This can be taken at character creation using up to 2 starting stunt slots but not 3.
        >
        > Gateborn -3 refresh Ability to make gates that connect one location within line of sight to the other gate created by the user. Only two gates may be made at once by any given user. Gates must be made on a flat surface. Can be used as a free action once per round, but require a roll when used against another character or to benefit in combat. These gates treat the zones they reside in as adjacent. Gates are often used to build momentum or redirect objects. Creates Skill-Gateborn. Can be used to defend, attack, create advantage or overcome (Attack and defend in physical combat.)
        >
        > Of note, taking this is a little like taking Lawbreaker in the Dresden RPG. A whole bunch of people who have been using their powers longer than you want to hunt you down and kill you.
        >
        > The wording there isn't perfectly precise, but it covers the basics and my players know what it's intended to do. I'm not sure this is balanced without my own meddling to make it so.
        >
        > The second, and more troubling of the two is one of may alien species. They are 6 inch tall, somewhat arthropodish, humanoid hiveminds called Tyl. 10 Tyl total the intelligence of a human being. Some Hives possess Millions of Tyl. They are from a planet with 4G standard gravity making them exceptionally durable and relatively strong.
        > Because these are ratial requirements they can use initial stunt points.
        >
        > Mandatory to the template is
        > -1 Tiny Size as in the Dresden RPG.
        > -1 Chitinous endoskeleton. Provides Armor 1.(adapted from inhuman toughness but cutting off the extra stress boxes)
        > -? Hivemind. This power is meant to represent the hives ability to accomplish multiple tasks at once by sending multiple bodies at a task, while also showing the benefits of adding bodies to the hive(increased mental acuity/processing speed) and adding to the hive.
        > I have heard two approaches. First My own.
        > Hivemind -2
        > Abilities included-
        > Multitasking-The Hive may perform any number of skill checks at a given time up to the number of Hive members. For every 2 Hive Members below 10 performing or focusing on a task take -1 on the roll.(So a lone Hive member will take -4 on any task.) Focus groups of less than 10 can not make Create Advantage Rolls.
        > Focus- For every ten Hive Members focused on a task after the first ten add +1 to the roll. Hive members focusing on a task being performed by another body may not take any actions of their own.
        > Reallocating how many Tyl are in a given focus group is done at the beginning of each scene, and cannot be changed until the scene changes.
        > All bodies in a single zone must be working on the same task.
        > As part of the high concept of being a Tyl Hive there is a predilection towards working in close proximity to each other in stressful situations.
        > Subset of power
        > Expanded Hive -1 Add Five Tyl to the Hive.
        >
        > The other option presented is to adapt Spray attacks to the multiple skill rolls, but that is difficult to do while allowing the Hive to be doing multiple tasks at once because they would be using multiple rolls.
        >
        > The worry is that giving a PC the ability to make multiple actions in a round is very easily broken.
        >
        > Help me please. And I apologize if I sound touchy on this, It's more that these are my own creation and I really want them to feel right.
        >
      • Jan Willms
        Snipping all that stuff, because it makes the mail awfully long, and I just want to comment on the hivemind thing. First of all, I notice you are sort of
        Message 3 of 15 , Jul 2, 2013
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          Snipping all that stuff, because it makes the mail awfully long, and I just want to comment on the hivemind thing.

          First of all, I notice you are sort of wavering back and forth about how to best treat the Tyl. On the one hand, you seem to insist that they must take the "Tiny" Stunt/Power/Trait, but at the same time, suggesting you want to treat them as singular characters; but then you also want to treat them as a Hive, which suggests that a singular Tyl isn't particularly interesting, because they're only truly sapient when they're a group that can mindmeld into a psychic gestalt.

          For what it's worth, I would totally strengthen the Hive over the individual. The easiest way to do away with anything that only pertains to an individual (such as the aforementioned "Tiny"), and instead treat a Tyl Hive as a group of "ascended" mooks. That is to say, their Skill and Stress are one and the same, as for normal mooks; but, being "ascended", they actually do get differentiated Skills rather than simply a general Rating. Effectively, this will look sort of like Risus in how it comes into play: the Hive doesn't have ANY Stress boxes at all. Whenever it takes damage, it must reduce one (or several) of its Skills by as many levels, representing the loss in man- and brainpower inflicted on it.

          As a suggestion, this isn't yet terrible thought through, particularly when it comes to how to this would interact with Consequences, or compare to characters with standard Stress tracks. But I think the Fate Paradigm of PCs that are Proactive, Competent and Dramatic is better (and easier) applied to a sapient hive than an individual hiveling.

          Jan
          Very fond of using Mook Rules for everything, if you couldn't tell!
        • aminar_gioco
          Part of the reason I m wavering is quite simply that the co-main character of the novel itself is a lone Tyl. However, due to nuerological changes caused by
          Message 4 of 15 , Jul 2, 2013
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            Part of the reason I'm wavering is quite simply that the co-main character of the novel itself is a lone Tyl. However, due to nuerological changes caused by becoming Gateborn he has individuality, and I want the rules to easily allow for that later. That said, he's probably close to a Ten or Eleven refresh character, and has 3/4 of the population(Every Tyl, and most of the Gateborn) trying to kill him.

            I worry about making Tyl play too differently from normal PC's. Using the mook rules would work. But it would leave that player playing a whole different game.

            --- In FateRPG@yahoogroups.com, Jan Willms <isenhertz@...> wrote:
            >
            > Snipping all that stuff, because it makes the mail awfully long, and I just
            > want to comment on the hivemind thing.
            >
            > First of all, I notice you are sort of wavering back and forth about how to
            > best treat the Tyl. On the one hand, you seem to insist that they must take
            > the "Tiny" Stunt/Power/Trait, but at the same time, suggesting you want to
            > treat them as singular characters; but then you also want to treat them as
            > a Hive, which suggests that a singular Tyl isn't particularly interesting,
            > because they're only truly sapient when they're a group that can mindmeld
            > into a psychic gestalt.
            >
            > For what it's worth, I would totally strengthen the Hive over the
            > individual. The easiest way to do away with anything that only pertains to
            > an individual (such as the aforementioned "Tiny"), and instead treat a Tyl
            > Hive as a group of "ascended" mooks. That is to say, their Skill and Stress
            > are one and the same, as for normal mooks; but, being "ascended", they
            > actually do get differentiated Skills rather than simply a general Rating.
            > Effectively, this will look sort of like Risus in how it comes into play:
            > the Hive doesn't have ANY Stress boxes at all. Whenever it takes damage, it
            > must reduce one (or several) of its Skills by as many levels, representing
            > the loss in man- and brainpower inflicted on it.
            >
            > As a suggestion, this isn't yet terrible thought through, particularly when
            > it comes to how to this would interact with Consequences, or compare to
            > characters with standard Stress tracks. But I think the Fate Paradigm of
            > PCs that are Proactive, Competent and Dramatic is better (and easier)
            > applied to a sapient hive than an individual hiveling.
            >
            > Jan
            > Very fond of using Mook Rules for everything, if you couldn't tell!
            >
          • Darren Hill
            I m not sure why you cant design a hive of creatures as a single character, using the normal character design rules, and then allow the hive-like benefits to
            Message 5 of 15 , Jul 3, 2013
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              I'm not sure why you cant design a hive of creatures as a single character, using the normal character design rules, and then allow the hive-like benefits to be expressed through Tyl-exclusive stunts, and through aspects.


              On 3 July 2013 01:43, aminar_gioco <primordiallights@...> wrote:
               

              Part of the reason I'm wavering is quite simply that the co-main character of the novel itself is a lone Tyl. However, due to nuerological changes caused by becoming Gateborn he has individuality, and I want the rules to easily allow for that later. That said, he's probably close to a Ten or Eleven refresh character, and has 3/4 of the population(Every Tyl, and most of the Gateborn) trying to kill him.

              I worry about making Tyl play too differently from normal PC's. Using the mook rules would work. But it would leave that player playing a whole different game.



              --- In FateRPG@yahoogroups.com, Jan Willms <isenhertz@...> wrote:
              >
              > Snipping all that stuff, because it makes the mail awfully long, and I just
              > want to comment on the hivemind thing.
              >
              > First of all, I notice you are sort of wavering back and forth about how to
              > best treat the Tyl. On the one hand, you seem to insist that they must take
              > the "Tiny" Stunt/Power/Trait, but at the same time, suggesting you want to
              > treat them as singular characters; but then you also want to treat them as
              > a Hive, which suggests that a singular Tyl isn't particularly interesting,
              > because they're only truly sapient when they're a group that can mindmeld
              > into a psychic gestalt.
              >
              > For what it's worth, I would totally strengthen the Hive over the
              > individual. The easiest way to do away with anything that only pertains to
              > an individual (such as the aforementioned "Tiny"), and instead treat a Tyl
              > Hive as a group of "ascended" mooks. That is to say, their Skill and Stress
              > are one and the same, as for normal mooks; but, being "ascended", they
              > actually do get differentiated Skills rather than simply a general Rating.
              > Effectively, this will look sort of like Risus in how it comes into play:
              > the Hive doesn't have ANY Stress boxes at all. Whenever it takes damage, it
              > must reduce one (or several) of its Skills by as many levels, representing
              > the loss in man- and brainpower inflicted on it.
              >
              > As a suggestion, this isn't yet terrible thought through, particularly when
              > it comes to how to this would interact with Consequences, or compare to
              > characters with standard Stress tracks. But I think the Fate Paradigm of
              > PCs that are Proactive, Competent and Dramatic is better (and easier)
              > applied to a sapient hive than an individual hiveling.
              >
              > Jan
              > Very fond of using Mook Rules for everything, if you couldn't tell!
              >


            • aminar_gioco
              That s essentially what I m trying to do. The problem is balancing the concept...
              Message 6 of 15 , Jul 3, 2013
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                That's essentially what I'm trying to do. The problem is balancing the concept...

                --- In FateRPG@yahoogroups.com, Darren Hill <darren0hill@...> wrote:
                >
                > I'm not sure why you cant design a hive of creatures as a single character,
                > using the normal character design rules, and then allow the hive-like
                > benefits to be expressed through Tyl-exclusive stunts, and through aspects.
                >
                >
                > On 3 July 2013 01:43, aminar_gioco <primordiallights@...> wrote:
                >
                > > **
                > >
                > >
                > > Part of the reason I'm wavering is quite simply that the co-main character
                > > of the novel itself is a lone Tyl. However, due to nuerological changes
                > > caused by becoming Gateborn he has individuality, and I want the rules to
                > > easily allow for that later. That said, he's probably close to a Ten or
                > > Eleven refresh character, and has 3/4 of the population(Every Tyl, and most
                > > of the Gateborn) trying to kill him.
                > >
                > > I worry about making Tyl play too differently from normal PC's. Using the
                > > mook rules would work. But it would leave that player playing a whole
                > > different game.
                > >
                > >
                > > --- In FateRPG@yahoogroups.com, Jan Willms <isenhertz@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > Snipping all that stuff, because it makes the mail awfully long, and I
                > > just
                > > > want to comment on the hivemind thing.
                > > >
                > > > First of all, I notice you are sort of wavering back and forth about how
                > > to
                > > > best treat the Tyl. On the one hand, you seem to insist that they must
                > > take
                > > > the "Tiny" Stunt/Power/Trait, but at the same time, suggesting you want
                > > to
                > > > treat them as singular characters; but then you also want to treat them
                > > as
                > > > a Hive, which suggests that a singular Tyl isn't particularly
                > > interesting,
                > > > because they're only truly sapient when they're a group that can mindmeld
                > > > into a psychic gestalt.
                > > >
                > > > For what it's worth, I would totally strengthen the Hive over the
                > > > individual. The easiest way to do away with anything that only pertains
                > > to
                > > > an individual (such as the aforementioned "Tiny"), and instead treat a
                > > Tyl
                > > > Hive as a group of "ascended" mooks. That is to say, their Skill and
                > > Stress
                > > > are one and the same, as for normal mooks; but, being "ascended", they
                > > > actually do get differentiated Skills rather than simply a general
                > > Rating.
                > > > Effectively, this will look sort of like Risus in how it comes into play:
                > > > the Hive doesn't have ANY Stress boxes at all. Whenever it takes damage,
                > > it
                > > > must reduce one (or several) of its Skills by as many levels,
                > > representing
                > > > the loss in man- and brainpower inflicted on it.
                > > >
                > > > As a suggestion, this isn't yet terrible thought through, particularly
                > > when
                > > > it comes to how to this would interact with Consequences, or compare to
                > > > characters with standard Stress tracks. But I think the Fate Paradigm of
                > > > PCs that are Proactive, Competent and Dramatic is better (and easier)
                > > > applied to a sapient hive than an individual hiveling.
                > > >
                > > > Jan
                > > > Very fond of using Mook Rules for everything, if you couldn't tell!
                > > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
              • Marshall Smith
                First step is to ignore the snowflake. The guy from the novel explicitly breaks the rules. Therefore, it is counter-productive to build the rules around him.
                Message 7 of 15 , Jul 3, 2013
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                  First step is to ignore the snowflake. The guy from the novel explicitly breaks the rules. Therefore, it is counter-productive to build the rules around him. Instead, he would take stunts to be a "hive of one".

                  So, the creature is human-sized (typically). Made up of four to eight Tyl.

                  What exactly does being a hive creature do? Allow you to split off and be in two places at the same time? Avoid certain kinds of damage?

                  What are the drawbacks? Mobility? Vulnerability to certain kinds of damage?

                  Express the things that are essential to the race as part of the racial cost. This should be the absolute bare minimum.

                  If some Tyl are able to so super-cool things, like rearrange body parts to "dodge" a blow, those should be racial stunts. Just because it's possible as a result of the race doesn't mean it should be part of the default package. These powers should be very much in line with similar stunts/powers.

                  Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android



                  From: aminar_gioco <primordiallights@...>;
                  To: <FateRPG@yahoogroups.com>;
                  Subject: [FateRPG] Re: A couple broken concepts to balance for a Space Opera setting.
                  Sent: Wed, Jul 3, 2013 7:26:11 PM

                   

                  That's essentially what I'm trying to do. The problem is balancing the concept...

                  --- In FateRPG@yahoogroups.com, Darren Hill <darren0hill@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > I'm not sure why you cant design a hive of creatures as a single character,
                  > using the normal character design rules, and then allow the hive-like
                  > benefits to be expressed through Tyl-exclusive stunts, and through aspects.
                  >
                  >
                  > On 3 July 2013 01:43, aminar_gioco <primordiallights@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > > **
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Part of the reason I'm wavering is quite simply that the co-main character
                  > > of the novel itself is a lone Tyl. However, due to nuerological changes
                  > > caused by becoming Gateborn he has individuality, and I want the rules to
                  > > easily allow for that later. That said, he's probably close to a Ten or
                  > > Eleven refresh character, and has 3/4 of the population(Every Tyl, and most
                  > > of the Gateborn) trying to kill him.
                  > >
                  > > I worry about making Tyl play too differently from normal PC's. Using the
                  > > mook rules would work. But it would leave that player playing a whole
                  > > different game.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > --- In FateRPG@yahoogroups.com, Jan Willms <isenhertz@> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > Snipping all that stuff, because it makes the mail awfully long, and I
                  > > just
                  > > > want to comment on the hivemind thing.
                  > > >
                  > > > First of all, I notice you are sort of wavering back and forth about how
                  > > to
                  > > > best treat the Tyl. On the one hand, you seem to insist that they must
                  > > take
                  > > > the "Tiny" Stunt/Power/Trait, but at the same time, suggesting you want
                  > > to
                  > > > treat them as singular characters; but then you also want to treat them
                  > > as
                  > > > a Hive, which suggests that a singular Tyl isn't particularly
                  > > interesting,
                  > > > because they're only truly sapient when they're a group that can mindmeld
                  > > > into a psychic gestalt.
                  > > >
                  > > > For what it's worth, I would totally strengthen the Hive over the
                  > > > individual. The easiest way to do away with anything that only pertains
                  > > to
                  > > > an individual (such as the aforementioned "Tiny"), and instead treat a
                  > > Tyl
                  > > > Hive as a group of "ascended" mooks. That is to say, their Skill and
                  > > Stress
                  > > > are one and the same, as for normal mooks; but, being "ascended", they
                  > > > actually do get differentiated Skills rather than simply a general
                  > > Rating.
                  > > > Effectively, this will look sort of like Risus in how it comes into play:
                  > > > the Hive doesn't have ANY Stress boxes at all. Whenever it takes damage,
                  > > it
                  > > > must reduce one (or several) of its Skills by as many levels,
                  > > representing
                  > > > the loss in man- and brainpower inflicted on it.
                  > > >
                  > > > As a suggestion, this isn't yet terrible thought through, particularly
                  > > when
                  > > > it comes to how to this would interact with Consequences, or compare to
                  > > > characters with standard Stress tracks. But I think the Fate Paradigm of
                  > > > PCs that are Proactive, Competent and Dramatic is better (and easier)
                  > > > applied to a sapient hive than an individual hiveling.
                  > > >
                  > > > Jan
                  > > > Very fond of using Mook Rules for everything, if you couldn't tell!
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >

                • Craig McRoberts
                  I believe a paraphrased quote from one Leonard Balsera would be F*** balance. Craig Sent from my iPhone
                  Message 8 of 15 , Jul 3, 2013
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                    I believe a paraphrased quote from one Leonard Balsera would be "F*** balance."

                    Craig
                    Sent from my iPhone

                    On Jul 3, 2013, at 15:26, "aminar_gioco" <primordiallights@...> wrote:

                     

                    That's essentially what I'm trying to do. The problem is balancing the concept...

                  • Jan Willms
                    ... That s not so much paraphrased as it is asterisked. Jan
                    Message 9 of 15 , Jul 3, 2013
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                      On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 11:10 PM, Craig McRoberts <imprimis5@...> wrote:

                      I believe a paraphrased quote from one Leonard Balsera would be "F*** balance."

                      That's not so much paraphrased as it is asterisked.

                      Jan
                    • Jim Montgomery
                      The principle, I think, is that Fate balances characters based on narrative importance, not relative power levels. So when you try and do that, you end up
                      Message 10 of 15 , Jul 3, 2013
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                        The principle, I think, is that Fate balances characters based on narrative importance, not relative power levels. So when you try and do that, you end up spinning your wheels solving problems that don't actually need solved.

                        Just building the guy with the standard rules, with hive stunts and whatnot, really is the correct solution. He should be balanced against the other PCs such that they contribute a lot in their areas, while he contributes a lot in his area. (If there are no other PCs, the issue is obviously moot.)


                        On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 4:16 PM, Jan Willms <isenhertz@...> wrote:
                         

                        On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 11:10 PM, Craig McRoberts <imprimis5@...> wrote:

                        I believe a paraphrased quote from one Leonard Balsera would be "F*** balance."

                        That's not so much paraphrased as it is asterisked.

                        Jan


                      • aminar_gioco
                        Alright. The Tyl. Tyl are a race of alien beings from a planet with 4 * earths Gravity. The closest relative to them is arthropods, but they are approximate
                        Message 11 of 15 , Jul 3, 2013
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                          Alright.
                          The Tyl.
                          Tyl are a race of alien beings from a planet with 4 * earths Gravity. The closest relative to them is arthropods, but they are approximate humanoid and capable of using tools. They also have a layer of softer skin over their chitinous endoskeleton(Which is extremely durable. that allows for more tactile ability-making tool use possible.
                          Individual Tyl are little more than animals, but the species shares a mental link with a range of approximately a mile. All Tyl linked together add to the total Hive intelligence, processing ability, and memory. The more Tyl the smarter. They are used for shipwide maintenance, often using small teams connected to the overall link as maintenance bodies. Functionally every Tyl is like a limb to the hive, a limb with limbs and that can sense beyond itself, but a limb nonetheless.

                          --- In FateRPG@yahoogroups.com, Jim Montgomery <frontendchaos@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > The principle, I think, is that Fate balances characters based on narrative
                          > importance, not relative power levels. So when you try and do that, you end
                          > up spinning your wheels solving problems that don't actually need solved.
                          >
                          > Just building the guy with the standard rules, with hive stunts and
                          > whatnot, really is the correct solution. He should be balanced against the
                          > other PCs such that they contribute a lot in their areas, while he
                          > contributes a lot in his area. (If there are no other PCs, the issue is
                          > obviously moot.)
                          >
                          >
                          > On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 4:16 PM, Jan Willms <isenhertz@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > > **
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 11:10 PM, Craig McRoberts <imprimis5@...>wrote:
                          > >
                          > >>
                          > >> I believe a paraphrased quote from one Leonard Balsera would be "F***
                          > >> balance."
                          > >>
                          > >
                          > > That's not so much paraphrased as it is asterisked.
                          > >
                          > > Jan
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
                        • Jim Montgomery
                          That description makes them sound pretty interesting and not overpowered. A lot of races in Bulldogs are in the -3 Refresh range, so here are some
                          Message 12 of 15 , Jul 3, 2013
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                            That description makes them sound pretty interesting and not overpowered. A lot of races in Bulldogs are in the -3 Refresh range, so here are some miscellaneous thoughts that land in that range. Keep in mind that this applies to the PC versions found in a game, the ones travelling with other PCs of other species, and specifically not the guy in the novel, because he doesn't need rules.

                            First off, I wouldn't track the individuals in the hive for bonuses or anything.

                            For gaming purposes, I would say that you need a mass of Tyl about equivalent the mass of a human to be sentient enough to be a PC. It doesn't really matter what X is... since they're individually six inches long you'd need a lot. But the PC himself isn't Tiny, he's a collective of members. If he loses too many members (they die, or go out of range), he'd become an NPC... if it has advantages sometimes, and disadvantages other times, it sounds like an aspect..

                            It seems reasonable that if the number of Tyl grows too large, maybe disagreement crops up in the hive, or "paralysis by analysis". So maybe they can get help from extra Tyl, but there's serious diminishing returns.

                            I would assume that they generally have to hang onto each other or clump together to be a PC when they're not multitasking, it doesn't seem like that would give them extra armor. Maybe the little guys are pretty resilient, but let's face it, a turtle shell or lobster carapace isn't bulletproof. Maybe individual hives grouped up with other gothic fantasy Tyl, with extra armor and spikes and stuff, and they can pay extra for innate armor.

                            So, the important things to model become:
                            Collective Body (Aspect): A Tyl hive requires a minimum threshold of individuals to maintain their sentience. When they lose half the hive, it's enough to affect their mental processes. They suffer a -1 to all mental actions until they find replacements. Critical mass can be lost when a partial hive goes out of range, or as a moderate consequence of physical damage. On the plus side, being a collective can provide advantages when evading attacks, or trying to hide in tight nooks and crannies.

                            Multitasking (-1 Refresh): A Tyl hive can split into groups to attempt tasks in different locations, as long as all parts are within a mile of all other parts. They can split in half, and then the halves can split into quarters. Beyond that, and a handful of crayfish are small to be effective at generally useful tasks, and they hate being that vulnerable. Half of a hive takes a -2 on all tasks, and a quarter of a hive takes -3. Partial hives can't perform multiple actions in an exchange. These modifiers apply to attacks and defense too, making splitting risky, not to mention if the split members get lost, trapped, etc...

                            Hive Teamwork (-1 Refresh): If two Tyl hives work together (e.g. 2 Tyl characters), they gain a +2 to create advantages based on helping each other, due to their telepathic link. When more hives work together, their thought processes tend to get complicated and muddled, negating additional advantage.

                            Armor (-1 Refresh): Some Tyl hives are made up of members made of tough stuff, with shells hard enough to absorb small arms fire. The hive (even if split) has an innate Armor: 1.

                            There are bigger Tyl hives, especially on their homeworld, that can operate on vehicle or even starship scale, but the discipline required for such hives to maintain cohesiveness requires decades of training, and they never leave the comfort of their high gravity home.

                            Tyl ships (if they exist) are crewed by multiple independent hives, which can be a telepathic nightmare, even for the hives themselves. Individual Tyl tend to drift back and forth between hives, creating an interior covered in skittering critters that are constantly splitting and combining into groups to perform tasks. It's freaking weird and members of other species can't deal with it for long.

                            On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 5:47 PM, aminar_gioco <primordiallights@...> wrote:
                             

                            Alright.
                            The Tyl.
                            Tyl are a race of alien beings from a planet with 4 * earths Gravity. The closest relative to them is arthropods, but they are approximate humanoid and capable of using tools. They also have a layer of softer skin over their chitinous endoskeleton(Which is extremely durable. that allows for more tactile ability-making tool use possible.
                            Individual Tyl are little more than animals, but the species shares a mental link with a range of approximately a mile. All Tyl linked together add to the total Hive intelligence, processing ability, and memory. The more Tyl the smarter. They are used for shipwide maintenance, often using small teams connected to the overall link as maintenance bodies. Functionally every Tyl is like a limb to the hive, a limb with limbs and that can sense beyond itself, but a limb nonetheless.



                            --- In FateRPG@yahoogroups.com, Jim Montgomery <frontendchaos@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > The principle, I think, is that Fate balances characters based on narrative
                            > importance, not relative power levels. So when you try and do that, you end
                            > up spinning your wheels solving problems that don't actually need solved.
                            >
                            > Just building the guy with the standard rules, with hive stunts and
                            > whatnot, really is the correct solution. He should be balanced against the
                            > other PCs such that they contribute a lot in their areas, while he
                            > contributes a lot in his area. (If there are no other PCs, the issue is
                            > obviously moot.)
                            >
                            >
                            > On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 4:16 PM, Jan Willms <isenhertz@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > > **
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 11:10 PM, Craig McRoberts <imprimis5@...>wrote:

                            > >
                            > >>
                            > >> I believe a paraphrased quote from one Leonard Balsera would be "F***
                            > >> balance."
                            > >>
                            > >
                            > > That's not so much paraphrased as it is asterisked.
                            > >
                            > > Jan
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            >


                          • Lisa Steele
                            I like this. You might also look at the were-spiders from the old version of White Wolf s Werewolf which could turn into a hillion-jillion spiders and could
                            Message 13 of 15 , Jul 3, 2013
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                              I like this. You might also look at the were-spiders from the old version of White Wolf's Werewolf which could turn into a hillion-jillion spiders and could have issues with memory loss or personality change if they lost too many of the spider horde.
                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: Jim Montgomery
                              Sent: Jul 3, 2013 9:00 PM
                              To: "FateRPG@yahoogroups.com"
                              Subject: Re: [FateRPG] Re: A couple broken concepts to balance for a Space Opera setting.



                              That description makes them sound pretty interesting and not overpowered. A lot of races in Bulldogs are in the -3 Refresh range, so here are some miscellaneous thoughts that land in that range. Keep in mind that this applies to the PC versions found in a game, the ones travelling with other PCs of other species, and specifically not the guy in the novel, because he doesn't need rules.

                              First off, I wouldn't track the individuals in the hive for bonuses or anything.

                              For gaming purposes, I would say that you need a mass of Tyl about equivalent the mass of a human to be sentient enough to be a PC. It doesn't really matter what X is... since they're individually six inches long you'd need a lot. But the PC himself isn't Tiny, he's a collective of members. If he loses too many members (they die, or go out of range), he'd become an NPC... if it has advantages sometimes, and disadvantages other times, it sounds like an aspect..

                              It seems reasonable that if the number of Tyl grows too large, maybe disagreement crops up in the hive, or "paralysis by analysis". So maybe they can get help from extra Tyl, but there's serious diminishing returns.

                              I would assume that they generally have to hang onto each other or clump together to be a PC when they're not multitasking, it doesn't seem like that would give them extra armor. Maybe the little guys are pretty resilient, but let's face it, a turtle shell or lobster carapace isn't bulletproof. Maybe individual hives grouped up with other gothic fantasy Tyl, with extra armor and spikes and stuff, and they can pay extra for innate armor.

                              So, the important things to model become:
                              Collective Body (Aspect): A Tyl hive requires a minimum threshold of individuals to maintain their sentience. When they lose half the hive, it's enough to affect their mental processes. They suffer a -1 to all mental actions until they find replacements. Critical mass can be lost when a partial hive goes out of range, or as a moderate consequence of physical damage. On the plus side, being a collective can provide advantages when evading attacks, or trying to hide in tight nooks and crannies.

                              Multitasking (-1 Refresh): A Tyl hive can split into groups to attempt tasks in different locations, as long as all parts are within a mile of all other parts. They can split in half, and then the halves can split into quarters. Beyond that, and a handful of crayfish are small to be effective at generally useful tasks, and they hate being that vulnerable. Half of a hive takes a -2 on all tasks, and a quarter of a hive takes -3. Partial hives can't perform multiple actions in an exchange. These modifiers apply to attacks and defense too, making splitting risky, not to mention if the split members get lost, trapped, etc...

                              Hive Teamwork (-1 Refresh): If two Tyl hives work together (e.g. 2 Tyl characters), they gain a +2 to create advantages based on helping each other, due to their telepathic link. When more hives work together, their thought processes tend to get complicated and muddled, negating additional advantage.

                              Armor (-1 Refresh): Some Tyl hives are made up of members made of tough stuff, with shells hard enough to absorb small arms fire. The hive (even if split) has an innate Armor: 1.

                              There are bigger Tyl hives, especially on their homeworld, that can operate on vehicle or even starship scale, but the discipline required for such hives to maintain cohesiveness requires decades of training, and they never leave the comfort of their high gravity home.

                              Tyl ships (if they exist) are crewed by multiple independent hives, which can be a telepathic nightmare, even for the hives themselves. Individual Tyl tend to drift back and forth between hives, creating an interior covered in skittering critters that are constantly splitting and combining into groups to perform tasks. It's freaking weird and members of other species can't deal with it for long.

                              On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 5:47 PM, aminar_gioco <primordiallights@...> wrote:
                               

                              Alright.
                              The Tyl.
                              Tyl are a race of alien beings from a planet with 4 * earths Gravity. The closest relative to them is arthropods, but they are approximate humanoid and capable of using tools. They also have a layer of softer skin over their chitinous endoskeleton(Which is extremely durable. that allows for more tactile ability-making tool use possible.
                              Individual Tyl are little more than animals, but the species shares a mental link with a range of approximately a mile. All Tyl linked together add to the total Hive intelligence, processing ability, and memory. The more Tyl the smarter. They are used for shipwide maintenance, often using small teams connected to the overall link as maintenance bodies. Functionally every Tyl is like a limb to the hive, a limb with limbs and that can sense beyond itself, but a limb nonetheless.



                              --- In FateRPG@yahoogroups.com, Jim Montgomery <frontendchaos@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > The principle, I think, is that Fate balances characters based on narrative
                              > importance, not relative power levels. So when you try and do that, you end
                              > up spinning your wheels solving problems that don't actually need solved.
                              >
                              > Just building the guy with the standard rules, with hive stunts and
                              > whatnot, really is the correct solution. He should be balanced against the
                              > other PCs such that they contribute a lot in their areas, while he
                              > contributes a lot in his area. (If there are no other PCs, the issue is
                              > obviously moot.)
                              >
                              >
                              > On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 4:16 PM, Jan Willms <isenhertz@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > > **
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 11:10 PM, Craig McRoberts <imprimis5@...>wrote:

                              > >
                              > >>
                              > >> I believe a paraphrased quote from one Leonard Balsera would be "F***
                              > >> balance."
                              > >>
                              > >
                              > > That's not so much paraphrased as it is asterisked.
                              > >
                              > > Jan
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              >




                            • aminar_gioco
                              I agree in regards to not making the specific number of Tyl necessary. The armor is... Unless I discuss it in terms of only home planet Tyl having the super
                              Message 14 of 15 , Jul 3, 2013
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                                I agree in regards to not making the specific number of Tyl necessary. The armor is... Unless I discuss it in terms of only home planet Tyl having the super tough armor, but 4 G's is an insane amount of pressure, given the air density that develops from it. To make sure the science works they've got carbon fiber structures within the endoskeleton, because You would die standing vertically in 4G's for not very long.
                                The lore behind some of that is off. Hives have to struggle to maintain independance from each other in close proximity, and tend to keep the bulk of the hive at a distance, and use an archaic form of cricket speak(arm based spines that resonate into chirping noises) to communicate. The bigger hives mainly operate as cities or space stations, which you have right. Space Pirates often have extra large Tyl colonies that psychically dominate smaller colonies and make them part of themselves as a way of incapacitating prey and then sell off extra Tyl.

                                As for clustering together, not so much. But if you keep the all hive members in the same zone work on the same task as part of the aspect this could easily work.
                                I'll run it past my players tomorrow and see what they say.


                                --- In FateRPG@yahoogroups.com, Jim Montgomery <frontendchaos@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > That description makes them sound pretty interesting and not overpowered. A
                                > lot of races in Bulldogs are in the -3 Refresh range, so here are some
                                > miscellaneous thoughts that land in that range. Keep in mind that this
                                > applies to the PC versions found in a game, the ones travelling with other
                                > PCs of other species, and specifically not the guy in the novel, because he
                                > doesn't need rules.
                                >
                                > First off, I wouldn't track the individuals in the hive for bonuses or
                                > anything.
                                >
                                > For gaming purposes, I would say that you need a mass of Tyl about
                                > equivalent the mass of a human to be sentient enough to be a PC. It doesn't
                                > really matter what X is... since they're individually six inches long you'd
                                > need a lot. But the PC himself isn't Tiny, he's a collective of members. If
                                > he loses too many members (they die, or go out of range), he'd become an
                                > NPC... if it has advantages sometimes, and disadvantages other times, it
                                > sounds like an aspect..
                                >
                                > It seems reasonable that if the number of Tyl grows too large, maybe
                                > disagreement crops up in the hive, or "paralysis by analysis". So maybe
                                > they can get help from extra Tyl, but there's serious diminishing returns.
                                >
                                > I would assume that they generally have to hang onto each other or clump
                                > together to be a PC when they're not multitasking, it doesn't seem like
                                > that would give them extra armor. Maybe the little guys are pretty
                                > resilient, but let's face it, a turtle shell or lobster carapace isn't
                                > bulletproof. Maybe individual hives grouped up with other gothic fantasy
                                > Tyl, with extra armor and spikes and stuff, and they can pay extra for
                                > innate armor.
                                >
                                > So, the important things to model become:
                                > Collective Body (Aspect): A Tyl hive requires a minimum threshold of
                                > individuals to maintain their sentience. When they lose half the hive, it's
                                > enough to affect their mental processes. They suffer a -1 to all mental
                                > actions until they find replacements. Critical mass can be lost when a
                                > partial hive goes out of range, or as a moderate consequence of physical
                                > damage. On the plus side, being a collective can provide advantages when
                                > evading attacks, or trying to hide in tight nooks and crannies.
                                >
                                > Multitasking (-1 Refresh): A Tyl hive can split into groups to attempt
                                > tasks in different locations, as long as all parts are within a mile of all
                                > other parts. They can split in half, and then the halves can split into
                                > quarters. Beyond that, and a handful of crayfish are small to be effective
                                > at generally useful tasks, and they hate being that vulnerable. Half of a
                                > hive takes a -2 on all tasks, and a quarter of a hive takes -3. Partial
                                > hives can't perform multiple actions in an exchange. These modifiers apply
                                > to attacks and defense too, making splitting risky, not to mention if the
                                > split members get lost, trapped, etc...
                                >
                                > Hive Teamwork (-1 Refresh): If two Tyl hives work together (e.g. 2 Tyl
                                > characters), they gain a +2 to create advantages based on helping each
                                > other, due to their telepathic link. When more hives work together, their
                                > thought processes tend to get complicated and muddled, negating additional
                                > advantage.
                                >
                                > Armor (-1 Refresh): Some Tyl hives are made up of members made of tough
                                > stuff, with shells hard enough to absorb small arms fire. The hive (even if
                                > split) has an innate Armor: 1.
                                >
                                > There are bigger Tyl hives, especially on their homeworld, that can operate
                                > on vehicle or even starship scale, but the discipline required for such
                                > hives to maintain cohesiveness requires decades of training, and they never
                                > leave the comfort of their high gravity home.
                                >
                                > Tyl ships (if they exist) are crewed by multiple independent hives, which
                                > can be a telepathic nightmare, even for the hives themselves. Individual
                                > Tyl tend to drift back and forth between hives, creating an interior
                                > covered in skittering critters that are constantly splitting and combining
                                > into groups to perform tasks. It's freaking weird and members of other
                                > species can't deal with it for long.
                                >
                                > On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 5:47 PM, aminar_gioco <primordiallights@...>wrote:
                                >
                                > > **
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > Alright.
                                > > The Tyl.
                                > > Tyl are a race of alien beings from a planet with 4 * earths Gravity. The
                                > > closest relative to them is arthropods, but they are approximate humanoid
                                > > and capable of using tools. They also have a layer of softer skin over
                                > > their chitinous endoskeleton(Which is extremely durable. that allows for
                                > > more tactile ability-making tool use possible.
                                > > Individual Tyl are little more than animals, but the species shares a
                                > > mental link with a range of approximately a mile. All Tyl linked together
                                > > add to the total Hive intelligence, processing ability, and memory. The
                                > > more Tyl the smarter. They are used for shipwide maintenance, often using
                                > > small teams connected to the overall link as maintenance bodies.
                                > > Functionally every Tyl is like a limb to the hive, a limb with limbs and
                                > > that can sense beyond itself, but a limb nonetheless.
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > --- In FateRPG@yahoogroups.com, Jim Montgomery <frontendchaos@> wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > > The principle, I think, is that Fate balances characters based on
                                > > narrative
                                > > > importance, not relative power levels. So when you try and do that, you
                                > > end
                                > > > up spinning your wheels solving problems that don't actually need solved.
                                > > >
                                > > > Just building the guy with the standard rules, with hive stunts and
                                > > > whatnot, really is the correct solution. He should be balanced against
                                > > the
                                > > > other PCs such that they contribute a lot in their areas, while he
                                > > > contributes a lot in his area. (If there are no other PCs, the issue is
                                > > > obviously moot.)
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 4:16 PM, Jan Willms <isenhertz@> wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > > > **
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > > On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 11:10 PM, Craig McRoberts <imprimis5@>wrote:
                                > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >>
                                > > > >> I believe a paraphrased quote from one Leonard Balsera would be "F***
                                > > > >> balance."
                                > > > >>
                                > > > >
                                > > > > That's not so much paraphrased as it is asterisked.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Jan
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                >
                              • aminar_gioco
                                The personality change is an excellant mental consequence(in regards to the spider thing.) I think providing a number of tyl will help the player, even just to
                                Message 15 of 15 , Jul 3, 2013
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                                  The personality change is an excellant mental consequence(in regards to the spider thing.)

                                  I think providing a number of tyl will help the player, even just to give a sense of scale. I'm looking at 4 Tyl per refresh, which leaves the halves and quarters number doable and ties the Tyl's enhancements to the number.

                                  How would you handle stress dealt to a split hive.

                                  Andrew

                                  --- In FateRPG@yahoogroups.com, "aminar_gioco" <primordiallights@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > I agree in regards to not making the specific number of Tyl necessary. The armor is... Unless I discuss it in terms of only home planet Tyl having the super tough armor, but 4 G's is an insane amount of pressure, given the air density that develops from it. To make sure the science works they've got carbon fiber structures within the endoskeleton, because You would die standing vertically in 4G's for not very long.
                                  > The lore behind some of that is off. Hives have to struggle to maintain independance from each other in close proximity, and tend to keep the bulk of the hive at a distance, and use an archaic form of cricket speak(arm based spines that resonate into chirping noises) to communicate. The bigger hives mainly operate as cities or space stations, which you have right. Space Pirates often have extra large Tyl colonies that psychically dominate smaller colonies and make them part of themselves as a way of incapacitating prey and then sell off extra Tyl.
                                  >
                                  > As for clustering together, not so much. But if you keep the all hive members in the same zone work on the same task as part of the aspect this could easily work.
                                  > I'll run it past my players tomorrow and see what they say.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > --- In FateRPG@yahoogroups.com, Jim Montgomery <frontendchaos@> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > That description makes them sound pretty interesting and not overpowered. A
                                  > > lot of races in Bulldogs are in the -3 Refresh range, so here are some
                                  > > miscellaneous thoughts that land in that range. Keep in mind that this
                                  > > applies to the PC versions found in a game, the ones travelling with other
                                  > > PCs of other species, and specifically not the guy in the novel, because he
                                  > > doesn't need rules.
                                  > >
                                  > > First off, I wouldn't track the individuals in the hive for bonuses or
                                  > > anything.
                                  > >
                                  > > For gaming purposes, I would say that you need a mass of Tyl about
                                  > > equivalent the mass of a human to be sentient enough to be a PC. It doesn't
                                  > > really matter what X is... since they're individually six inches long you'd
                                  > > need a lot. But the PC himself isn't Tiny, he's a collective of members. If
                                  > > he loses too many members (they die, or go out of range), he'd become an
                                  > > NPC... if it has advantages sometimes, and disadvantages other times, it
                                  > > sounds like an aspect..
                                  > >
                                  > > It seems reasonable that if the number of Tyl grows too large, maybe
                                  > > disagreement crops up in the hive, or "paralysis by analysis". So maybe
                                  > > they can get help from extra Tyl, but there's serious diminishing returns.
                                  > >
                                  > > I would assume that they generally have to hang onto each other or clump
                                  > > together to be a PC when they're not multitasking, it doesn't seem like
                                  > > that would give them extra armor. Maybe the little guys are pretty
                                  > > resilient, but let's face it, a turtle shell or lobster carapace isn't
                                  > > bulletproof. Maybe individual hives grouped up with other gothic fantasy
                                  > > Tyl, with extra armor and spikes and stuff, and they can pay extra for
                                  > > innate armor.
                                  > >
                                  > > So, the important things to model become:
                                  > > Collective Body (Aspect): A Tyl hive requires a minimum threshold of
                                  > > individuals to maintain their sentience. When they lose half the hive, it's
                                  > > enough to affect their mental processes. They suffer a -1 to all mental
                                  > > actions until they find replacements. Critical mass can be lost when a
                                  > > partial hive goes out of range, or as a moderate consequence of physical
                                  > > damage. On the plus side, being a collective can provide advantages when
                                  > > evading attacks, or trying to hide in tight nooks and crannies.
                                  > >
                                  > > Multitasking (-1 Refresh): A Tyl hive can split into groups to attempt
                                  > > tasks in different locations, as long as all parts are within a mile of all
                                  > > other parts. They can split in half, and then the halves can split into
                                  > > quarters. Beyond that, and a handful of crayfish are small to be effective
                                  > > at generally useful tasks, and they hate being that vulnerable. Half of a
                                  > > hive takes a -2 on all tasks, and a quarter of a hive takes -3. Partial
                                  > > hives can't perform multiple actions in an exchange. These modifiers apply
                                  > > to attacks and defense too, making splitting risky, not to mention if the
                                  > > split members get lost, trapped, etc...
                                  > >
                                  > > Hive Teamwork (-1 Refresh): If two Tyl hives work together (e.g. 2 Tyl
                                  > > characters), they gain a +2 to create advantages based on helping each
                                  > > other, due to their telepathic link. When more hives work together, their
                                  > > thought processes tend to get complicated and muddled, negating additional
                                  > > advantage.
                                  > >
                                  > > Armor (-1 Refresh): Some Tyl hives are made up of members made of tough
                                  > > stuff, with shells hard enough to absorb small arms fire. The hive (even if
                                  > > split) has an innate Armor: 1.
                                  > >
                                  > > There are bigger Tyl hives, especially on their homeworld, that can operate
                                  > > on vehicle or even starship scale, but the discipline required for such
                                  > > hives to maintain cohesiveness requires decades of training, and they never
                                  > > leave the comfort of their high gravity home.
                                  > >
                                  > > Tyl ships (if they exist) are crewed by multiple independent hives, which
                                  > > can be a telepathic nightmare, even for the hives themselves. Individual
                                  > > Tyl tend to drift back and forth between hives, creating an interior
                                  > > covered in skittering critters that are constantly splitting and combining
                                  > > into groups to perform tasks. It's freaking weird and members of other
                                  > > species can't deal with it for long.
                                  > >
                                  > > On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 5:47 PM, aminar_gioco <primordiallights@>wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > > **
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Alright.
                                  > > > The Tyl.
                                  > > > Tyl are a race of alien beings from a planet with 4 * earths Gravity. The
                                  > > > closest relative to them is arthropods, but they are approximate humanoid
                                  > > > and capable of using tools. They also have a layer of softer skin over
                                  > > > their chitinous endoskeleton(Which is extremely durable. that allows for
                                  > > > more tactile ability-making tool use possible.
                                  > > > Individual Tyl are little more than animals, but the species shares a
                                  > > > mental link with a range of approximately a mile. All Tyl linked together
                                  > > > add to the total Hive intelligence, processing ability, and memory. The
                                  > > > more Tyl the smarter. They are used for shipwide maintenance, often using
                                  > > > small teams connected to the overall link as maintenance bodies.
                                  > > > Functionally every Tyl is like a limb to the hive, a limb with limbs and
                                  > > > that can sense beyond itself, but a limb nonetheless.
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > --- In FateRPG@yahoogroups.com, Jim Montgomery <frontendchaos@> wrote:
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > The principle, I think, is that Fate balances characters based on
                                  > > > narrative
                                  > > > > importance, not relative power levels. So when you try and do that, you
                                  > > > end
                                  > > > > up spinning your wheels solving problems that don't actually need solved.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Just building the guy with the standard rules, with hive stunts and
                                  > > > > whatnot, really is the correct solution. He should be balanced against
                                  > > > the
                                  > > > > other PCs such that they contribute a lot in their areas, while he
                                  > > > > contributes a lot in his area. (If there are no other PCs, the issue is
                                  > > > > obviously moot.)
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 4:16 PM, Jan Willms <isenhertz@> wrote:
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > > **
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 11:10 PM, Craig McRoberts <imprimis5@>wrote:
                                  > > >
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > >>
                                  > > > > >> I believe a paraphrased quote from one Leonard Balsera would be "F***
                                  > > > > >> balance."
                                  > > > > >>
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > That's not so much paraphrased as it is asterisked.
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > Jan
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  >
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