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Extras on FATE 3?

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  • Luís Eduardo Jason Santos
    Hello, Guys I was musing about some magical items of my FATE3 players, and some of them could use some Aspects. However, the rules I have consulted while
    Message 1 of 19 , Feb 20, 2013
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      Hello, Guys

      I was musing about some magical items of my FATE3 players, and some of them could use some Aspects.

      However, the rules I have consulted while setting up my house rules looked  pretty neat on building items from stunts -- and setting a 'discount' refresh cost to the item itself (depending on the item being detectable, possibility to lose it, etc). But it says nothing regarding Aspects: how many, would they cost something, etc.

      I recently read something about FATE Core that remembered me of the Extras from FATE 2 (I think it was about the Fate Fractal), but I saw nothing about Extras on DFRPG, FreeFate or LoA.

      Is there a concept similar to F2 Extras in FATE 3? 
      If not, is there a reason why there it should exist (i.e.: redundant with something else)? 
      If yes, could you point me to a book or text that talks about it?

      Thanks in advance.

      Best regards,
      --
      Luís Eduardo Jason Santos
    • Brett Ritter
      On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 10:54 AM, Luís Eduardo Jason Santos ... So you re talking pre-Core Fate here. ... So if you have access to Core, the revised Extras
      Message 2 of 19 , Feb 20, 2013
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        On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 10:54 AM, Luís Eduardo Jason Santos
        <jasonsantos@...> wrote:
        > I was musing about some magical items of my FATE3 players, and some of
        > them could use some Aspects.

        So you're talking pre-Core Fate here.

        > I recently read something about FATE Core that remembered me of the Extras
        > from FATE 2 (I think it was about the Fate Fractal), but I saw nothing about
        > Extras on DFRPG, FreeFate or LoA.

        So if you have access to Core, the revised Extras chapter should be
        great for the other systems (though refresh levels are fairly
        Dresden-ish, but the stunt or skill costs all work)

        ...What was the question again?

        --
        Brett Ritter / SwiftOne
        swiftone@...
      • Luís Eduardo Jason Santos
        The important one: what would be the cost for a player to create an item that is a character -- I mean, that has not only enhancements , but also aspects,
        Message 3 of 19 , Feb 20, 2013
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          The important one: what would be the cost for a player to create an item that is a 'character' -- I mean, that has not only 'enhancements', but also aspects, skills, etc?

          Should additional aspects be cheaper than additional stunts?  -- after all, they cost FPs to invoke. Should they cost the same? Should they cost Player aspects?


          On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 4:07 PM, Brett Ritter <swiftone@...> wrote:
           

          On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 10:54 AM, Luís Eduardo Jason Santos
          jasonsantos@...> wrote:
          > I was musing about some magical items of my FATE3 players, and some of
          > them could use some Aspects.

          So you're talking pre-Core Fate here.


          > I recently read something about FATE Core that remembered me of the Extras
          > from FATE 2 (I think it was about the Fate Fractal), but I saw nothing about
          > Extras on DFRPG, FreeFate or LoA.

          So if you have access to Core, the revised Extras chapter should be
          great for the other systems (though refresh levels are fairly
          Dresden-ish, but the stunt or skill costs all work)

          ...What was the question again?

          --
          Brett Ritter / SwiftOne
          swiftone@...




          --
          Luís Eduardo Jason Santos
        • Tim K.
          How would you handle a classic three form lycanthrope in Fate core?
          Message 4 of 19 , Feb 20, 2013
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            How would you handle a classic three form lycanthrope in Fate core?
          • Jon Lang
            I d treat it as an Extra, costing one Aspect slot and/or some Refresh. The Aspect in question would be mutable: its exact details would vary depending on
            Message 5 of 19 , Feb 20, 2013
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              I'd treat it as an Extra, costing one Aspect slot and/or some Refresh.  The Aspect in question would be mutable: its exact details would vary depending on whether you're in human form, wolf form, or wolf-man form.  

              On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 1:38 PM, Tim K. <silverlion@...> wrote:
               

              How would you handle a classic three form lycanthrope in Fate core?


              --
              Jonathan "Dataweaver" Lang
            • PK Levine
              ... I m willing to help answer, but first, please explain what you re looking for. Because in my mind, classic three-form lycanthrope is an oxymoron -- a
              Message 6 of 19 , Feb 20, 2013
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                On Wednesday, February 20, 2013 04:38:22 pm Tim K. wrote:
                > How would you handle a classic three form lycanthrope in Fate core?

                I'm willing to help answer, but first, please explain what you're looking for.
                Because in my mind, "classic three-form lycanthrope" is an oxymoron -- a
                classic lycanthrope shifts between man and wolf (a normal wolf) and only has
                partial control over it.

                How controlled do you want the transformations to be? How would you describe
                the third (I assume "wolfman") form? Is society cool with this or will they
                shoot him on sight? Any other things you want thrown in (e.g., regeneration or
                vulnerability to silver -- neither of which are "classic," either)?

                PK
              • Jon Lang
                ... the vulnerability to silver, if included. Regeneration is a separate problem all its own, since Fate s current Consequences system isn t particularly
                Message 7 of 19 , Feb 20, 2013
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                  On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 1:55 PM, PK Levine <pkitty@...> wrote:
                  How controlled do you want the transformations to be? How would you describe
                  the third (I assume "wolfman") form? Is society cool with this or will they
                  shoot him on sight? Any other things you want thrown in (e.g., regeneration or
                  vulnerability to silver -- neither of which are "classic," either)?
                   
                  Social effects of being a werewolf would be covered by an Aspect; as might the vulnerability to silver, if included.  Regeneration is a separate problem all its own, since Fate's current Consequences system isn't particularly tolerant of healing powers; but if a werewolf has that, it would most likely count like a Stunt.  

                  The one other thing I'd allow would be some shuffling around of Skills when in different forms: wolf-men aren't particularly known for their social acumen, but tend to be scary strong/tough/fast; wolves tend to have heightened senses etc.

                  --
                  Jonathan "Dataweaver" Lang
                • gremlin1384
                  The rules on this depend on the system you re looking at. Fate Core basically says it costs whatever the item has: if it has aspects, you pay those aspects.
                  Message 8 of 19 , Feb 20, 2013
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                    The rules on this depend on the system you're looking at. Fate Core basically says "it costs whatever the item has: if it has aspects, you pay those aspects. If it has skills, you pay for those skills. If it has stunts, you pay the refresh." However, it also notes that if having a companion or sapient item or whatever you're modeling is common in the game world you're working with, you should feel free to give some extra aspects/skill points/refresh to your PCs, most likely with the caveat that they can ONLY be spent on companions, or nations, or talking cars, or whatever.

                    Previous to Fate Core, the various systems either didn't have rules or had extremely specific rules for "companion" stunts. The only one that I can be sure of is Spirit of the Century, which had specific rules for spending stunts to have companion characters. You can find those rules here: http://www.faterpg.com/dl/sotc-srd.html#companions

                    --- In FateRPG@yahoogroups.com, Luís Eduardo Jason Santos <jasonsantos@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > The important one: what would be the cost for a player to create an item
                    > that is a 'character' -- I mean, that has not only 'enhancements', but also
                    > aspects, skills, etc?
                    >
                    > Should additional aspects be cheaper than additional stunts? -- after all,
                    > they cost FPs to invoke. Should they cost the same? Should they cost Player
                    > aspects?
                    >
                    >
                    > On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 4:07 PM, Brett Ritter <swiftone@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > > **
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 10:54 AM, Luís Eduardo Jason Santos
                    > > jasonsantos@...> wrote:
                    > > > I was musing about some magical items of my FATE3 players, and some of
                    > > > them could use some Aspects.
                    > >
                    > > So you're talking pre-Core Fate here.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > > I recently read something about FATE Core that remembered me of the
                    > > Extras
                    > > > from FATE 2 (I think it was about the Fate Fractal), but I saw nothing
                    > > about
                    > > > Extras on DFRPG, FreeFate or LoA.
                    > >
                    > > So if you have access to Core, the revised Extras chapter should be
                    > > great for the other systems (though refresh levels are fairly
                    > > Dresden-ish, but the stunt or skill costs all work)
                    > >
                    > > ...What was the question again?
                    > >
                    > > --
                    > > Brett Ritter / SwiftOne
                    > > swiftone@...
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --
                    > Luís Eduardo Jason Santos
                    >
                  • Fred Hicks
                    This is possibly classic as in the white wolf redefined for a lot of people what the baseline for anything supernatural is but that s not really classic
                    Message 9 of 19 , Feb 20, 2013
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                      This is possibly "classic" as in the "white wolf redefined for a lot of people what the baseline for anything supernatural is but that's not really classic" sense, I don't know. :)

                      Fred

                      --
                      Fred Hicks
                      Co-President, Evil Hat Productions, LLC - www.evilhat.com
                      Freelance Layoutist * Game Publishing Blogger - www.deadlyfredly.com
                      For "real time" updates: http://twitter.com/fredhicks http://gplus.to/fredhicks
                    • Brett Ritter
                      ... At a superficial level: Werewolf is part of your High Concept. There s an implied ...in human form , ...in wolf form , ...in wolf-man form as
                      Message 10 of 19 , Feb 20, 2013
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                        On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 1:38 PM, Tim K. <silverlion@...> wrote:
                        > How would you handle a classic three form lycanthrope in Fate core?

                        At a superficial level:

                        "Werewolf" is part of your High Concept. There's an implied "...in
                        human form", "...in wolf form", "...in wolf-man form" as appropriate.
                        So if you're doing something athletic, it's only appropriate to invoke
                        while in wolf form, while something involving great strength would be
                        wolf-man form bound, and maybe pain from silver is globally true.
                        This requires a common concept as to strengths and weaknesses, but no
                        special rules.

                        At a middlin' level:

                        In addition to above, there's a stunt that explains the special powers
                        (regen at a minimum). This is an Extra with a refresh cost, and
                        outlines the requirements for changing forms, etc.

                        At a tinker level:
                        In addition to above, the Extra is more complicated to swap some skill levels.

                        --
                        Brett Ritter / SwiftOne
                        swiftone@...
                      • Tim K.
                        ... They had Five forms in White Wolf, in my version its the classic three form version wolf, man and wolfman. Mostly the same mass, no hulking brute wolves..
                        Message 11 of 19 , Feb 20, 2013
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                          On 2/20/2013 4:07 PM, Fred Hicks wrote:
                          This is possibly "classic" as in the "white wolf redefined for a lot of people what the baseline for anything supernatural is but that's not really classic" sense, I don't know. :)


                          They had Five forms in White Wolf, in my version its the classic three form version wolf, man and wolfman.

                          Mostly the same mass, no hulking brute wolves..


                        • Tim K.
                          ... In this case its for a fantasy game where he s a cop, and has control most of the time (certain environmental/effects trigger it as well. The moon,
                          Message 12 of 19 , Feb 20, 2013
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                            On 2/20/2013 3:55 PM, PK Levine wrote:
                            > On Wednesday, February 20, 2013 04:38:22 pm Tim K. wrote:
                            >> How would you handle a classic three form lycanthrope in Fate core?
                            > I'm willing to help answer, but first, please explain what you're looking for.
                            > Because in my mind, "classic three-form lycanthrope" is an oxymoron -- a
                            > classic lycanthrope shifts between man and wolf (a normal wolf) and only has
                            > partial control over it.
                            >
                            > How controlled do you want the transformations to be? How would you describe
                            > the third (I assume "wolfman") form? Is society cool with this or will they
                            > shoot him on sight? Any other things you want thrown in (e.g., regeneration or
                            > vulnerability to silver -- neither of which are "classic," either)?
                            >
                            >


                            In this case its for a fantasy game where he's a cop, and has control
                            most of the time (certain environmental/effects trigger it as well. The
                            moon, blooming wolfsbane, etc.)

                            Classic three form has been around in fiction and folktales a LONG LONG
                            TIME. At least since the 14-15th century (IIRC that's the era of the
                            wolf-man image woodcuts.)

                            In society he's just another monster--like goblins, ogres, etc, that is
                            a member of society they put up with as long as he follows the rules.
                          • Luís Eduardo Jason Santos
                            Thanks a lot, guys. That really helped. ... -- Luís Eduardo Jason Santos Thanks a lot, guys. That really helped. :-) On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 7:06 PM,
                            Message 13 of 19 , Feb 20, 2013
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                              Thanks a lot, guys. That really helped.

                              :-)


                              On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 7:06 PM, gremlin1384 <gremlin1384@...> wrote:
                               

                              The rules on this depend on the system you're looking at. Fate Core basically says "it costs whatever the item has: if it has aspects, you pay those aspects. If it has skills, you pay for those skills. If it has stunts, you pay the refresh." However, it also notes that if having a companion or sapient item or whatever you're modeling is common in the game world you're working with, you should feel free to give some extra aspects/skill points/refresh to your PCs, most likely with the caveat that they can ONLY be spent on companions, or nations, or talking cars, or whatever.

                              Previous to Fate Core, the various systems either didn't have rules or had extremely specific rules for "companion" stunts. The only one that I can be sure of is Spirit of the Century, which had specific rules for spending stunts to have companion characters. You can find those rules here: http://www.faterpg.com/dl/sotc-srd.html#companions



                              --- In FateRPG@yahoogroups.com, Luís Eduardo Jason Santos wrote:
                              >
                              > The important one: what would be the cost for a player to create an item
                              > that is a 'character' -- I mean, that has not only 'enhancements', but also
                              > aspects, skills, etc?
                              >
                              > Should additional aspects be cheaper than additional stunts? -- after all,
                              > they cost FPs to invoke. Should they cost the same? Should they cost Player
                              > aspects?
                              >
                              >
                              > On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 4:07 PM, Brett Ritter wrote:
                              >
                              > > **

                              > >
                              > >
                              > > On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 10:54 AM, Luís Eduardo Jason Santos
                              > > jasonsantos@...> wrote:
                              > > > I was musing about some magical items of my FATE3 players, and some of
                              > > > them could use some Aspects.
                              > >
                              > > So you're talking pre-Core Fate here.
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > > I recently read something about FATE Core that remembered me of the
                              > > Extras
                              > > > from FATE 2 (I think it was about the Fate Fractal), but I saw nothing
                              > > about
                              > > > Extras on DFRPG, FreeFate or LoA.
                              > >
                              > > So if you have access to Core, the revised Extras chapter should be
                              > > great for the other systems (though refresh levels are fairly
                              > > Dresden-ish, but the stunt or skill costs all work)
                              > >
                              > > ...What was the question again?
                              > >
                              > > --
                              > > Brett Ritter / SwiftOne
                              > > swiftone@...
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > --
                              > Luís Eduardo Jason Santos
                              >




                              --
                              Luís Eduardo Jason Santos
                            • PK Levine
                              ... Okay, so he can shift at will, but can also be compelled to shift. There are no social effects from it, and no add-ons like regeneration/silver/etc. This
                              Message 14 of 19 , Feb 20, 2013
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                                On Wednesday, February 20, 2013 05:47:28 pm Tim K. wrote:
                                > In this case its for a fantasy game where he's a cop, and has control
                                > most of the time (certain environmental/effects trigger it as well. The
                                > moon, blooming wolfsbane, etc.)
                                >
                                > In society he's just another monster--like goblins, ogres, etc, that is
                                > a member of society they put up with as long as he follows the rules.

                                Okay, so he can shift at will, but can also be compelled to shift. There are
                                no social effects from it, and no "add-ons" like regeneration/silver/etc.

                                This is an extra which (IMO) should cost an aspect and a stunt.

                                ASPECT: Invoke for heightened senses in any form, great strength and speed in
                                wolfman form, to track or fit in as an animal in wolf form, etc. Compel to have
                                a trigger show up unexpectedly, to lose your temper, to act bestial, etc.

                                STUNT: You can shift forms. For each form, reassign up to 2 skill points to
                                reflect this change (e.g., in wolfman form you might have +1 Athletics and
                                Physique but -1 Deceit and Rapport). Set this when you take this extra; you
                                may shift it as part of a minor milestone. The GM will also take your current
                                form into account when determining modifiers, opposition, and other miscellany
                                (e.g., as a wolf, you're faster than a human but have no manual dexterity).

                                I think the stunt cost is fair despite not giving actual *bonuses*, because
                                you have two forms to choose from and can easily shift to the one that gives
                                you the best skills in a given situation. Tag the aspect when you feel like
                                being a super-powerful wolfman.

                                PK
                              • dave_joria
                                In my untested Skeleton Crew RPG, here s my entry on werewolves (any feedback would be appreciated) WERES One man to another is a wolf, not a man, when he
                                Message 15 of 19 , Feb 20, 2013
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                                  In my untested Skeleton Crew RPG, here's my entry on werewolves (any feedback would be appreciated)

                                  WERES
                                  One man to another is a wolf, not a man, when he doesn't know what sort he is.
                                  -Plautus.

                                  Werecreatures, also called lycanthropes, are ferocious creature that bridge the gap between humanity and savagery. They embody either the best of both worlds, or the worst.
                                  The origin of weres came about near the dawn of time. Like vampires, they are the product of a prehistoric blood ritual gone awry. A shaman tapped into the power of an animal totem, only to draw dig too deep. The result is a curse that spreads like a virus, transferring between humans and animals. If left untreated, a bite from a were can spread through the body, poisoning it. When the victim's heart stops, and the victim will either reawaken as a were or remain dead- which result is preferable is a difficult call. Once the victim has been born again, the curse is permanent.
                                  A were, unlike a vampire, naturally soaks up energy without the need for a victim. A were is like a volcano- he stores energy slowly until the end of the month. About the same time as the full moon, the energy becomes too great for a were's body to hold, and he turns inside out like a popcorn kernel. The humanity fades behind a creature that hungers for meat. The result is a humanoid that shambles on two upright legs, neither man nor beast.
                                  With training, a were can learn to keep most of his humanity, even while crossing over. He can also learn to trigger his transformation on cue, although a voluntary transformation can drain a massive amount of energy from the host; it can't be turned on and off like a light-switch. Even a seasoned werewolf finds himself struggling with his instincts- much like a training a dog that happens to be himself.
                                  Of the different werebreeds, werewolves are the most infamous. However, the curse has spread to many other species; in Africa are werelions and leopards; werebats are found in South America; in Asia, locals tell of weretigers; Native Americans speak of werebears. There are werecreatures of nearly any animal- rat, cat, crocodile, goat, ferret, platypus, lemur, shark, and everything else.
                                  If the were finds others of the same type, it might start a pack, herd, or family of its own. A child born of were parents will often inherit the curse, born as the child of two worlds.

                                  Playing a Were
                                  This section is to help you create a werecreature to transitions from a human to a half-human creature. Take your pick which animal: wolves, bulls, komodo dragons, birds, bats, ,sharks, dolphins, whatever. Feel free to adapt it to your own tastes.

                                  It also helps if you keep in mind HOW you want your werewolf to appear. There are several ways that you can imagine a person transforming into a werewolf. Pick the one that fits the style of your character and gaming group:

                                  25% Animal – This is the least drastic version, with the character keeping a mostly human shape. When changing, his or her hands will become more clawlike. If he or she is a were wolf, bear, rat, or anything else with fur, he or she will quickly grow thick hair over the whole body. It is also possible for the head to change into the shape of the animal, although the character is often still able to speak. If the character is more likely keeps his or her wits, it can change back and forth without losing its clothing.
                                  For players that: Want a lighter character is who pops in and out of were-form, but can still interact with the other characters.

                                  50% Animal – The Human turns into something that is half-human and half animal. It will have a shaky pair of hind legs, and easily distinguishable from a normal animal. The size of the creature will often be the middle ground between the human and the animal- ex. A werebadger will be halfway between the size of a human (6 feet) and a badger (3 feet), for an average of 4-5 feet. The 50% human type can often be seen as a curse- the character is stuck with the body that is neither man nor beast, but a clear abomination.
                                  For Players That: Want to play a darker character- a creature that changes into a monster against his will or only in the most desperate of situations.

                                  100% Animal – The human is capable of switching from a human form, to one that is completely animal. In animal form, it can blend in with any other animal of the same type, and might even be able to communicate with animals (or, with special abilities, ANY animals.) In animal form, the character will obviously have to resist instinctive distractions, but whether the character has ANY amount of human wits depends on how you write the character (ex. Maybe the character is in complete control unless it's the full moon). Changing back and forth will require the character ditching or destroying most clothing he has on him.
                                  For Players that: Aren't afraid of playing a character with 2 extremes, nor is worried about adding on extra limitations. Especially good for animal lovers who don't mind playing a character that is occasionally four legged and has trouble with doorknobs.

                                  Rules for a Werecreature
                                  There are several ways people can choose to represent a Werewolf. Our recommendation is through Skills (if you haven't hit that section yet, just skip over this part until then). We've found the simplest way to handle it is to have certain skills that are focused when your character is a human, and others to focus when you are in bestial form.

                                  Version 1 – Double Skills
                                  The Double Skills version has certain skills split in half- when the player is a human, he uses all of the Human Skills (in this case, Rapport +4 and Craft). When the character is in beast form, he loses those two and gains Melee +4 and Intimidation +3. This makes sense, as a motor cycle builder might have with a silver tongue when he's a human, but as a wolf he might be better at fighting and growling. Certain skills (like Physique) do NOT switch over and remain constant. If going with this version, we recommend you start with no more than 1 Swapped skill at any given level. We also recommend that skills that boost your stats like Physique and Will are NOT swapped, as this would cause your Stress meter to drop up and down (and besides, Weres are pretty tough even in human form.)

                                  Version 2 – Swap Skills
                                  In this version, the player has the exact same set of skills at all times, but they swap levels.

                                  So, a Were-dog private detective might have Investigation +4 and Burglary +3, with a mere Melee +2 and Survival +1, but when he's in beast form, these skills are flipped. He now has Survival +4 (yay animal instincts), Melee +3, Burglary +2 (sneaky, but harder time with door knobs), and Investigation +1 (won't be dusting any prints down there.) We recommend no more than half of your skills are swappable. We also recommend that skills that boost your stats like Physique and Will are NOT swapped, as this would cause your Stress meter to drop up and down (and besides, Weres are pretty tough even in human form.)
                                  Switching over- in either version, the Character can spend a fate point to switch from one form to the other. If in combat, this takes a full round of action to switch. The GM can determine if there are certain situations that the character cannot switch (or worse still, can't switch BACK).

                                  Werecreature Classes
                                  Common Classes: It is common for Weres can have the following classes: Fighters, Mystics, Mediums, Magic Users, Researcher. They cannot play Priests or Mad Scientists unless your GM agrees (so better invent a good reason.)

                                  Example Aspects: Hard to Kill; Animal Instincts; You Wouldn't Like Me When I'm Angry; That Time of the Month; Aaaand I'm Naked Again; BaconBaconBACON!; Follow Your Nose; Gets My Hackles Up!; Spidey-Sense Tingling; Call of the Wild; Autobots Transform!; Reluctant Streaker

                                  Invoke When: Scaring others, Relating with other Undead, Communing or Intimidating Wildlife, Extending senses

                                  Compel When: Changing involuntarily (when angered, cursed, and/or moonlight, etc); Repelled by holy magic and silver; Dealing with Alpha personalities; Trying to get skittish animals to cooperate; acting civilized; resisting baser instincts.

                                  Werecreature Variants – Beastmen
                                  While the rules above can be used to make a werecreature, there's nothing to say you can't cut out the transforming part and make a character that is constantly a human/animal mix. Maybe it was an artificially created being, like Island of Dr. Moreau. There are also rumors of magical races of half-humans, like Indian Monkeymen or Greek Minotaurs.

                                  Werecreature Variant – Shapeshifter
                                  Shapeshifters are humans that transform into an animal through the use of an animal skin. By wearing the skin, the user can magically take the form of the animal. In Scandenavia, there are the wolfskin wearing Ulfhednar and the bearskin wearing Berserkers. In Africa, there are wizards that can turn into lions, hunting on fellow humans with impunity. In Ireland, there are the sealskin-wearing Selkies. However, even though the curse is not engrained in the wearer, the skin-walker still suffers the same lack of reason that a werecreature suffers. Worse still, the Skin-walker needs the totem, otherwise he cannot transfer over. The greatest of all shapeshifters are the Skinwalkers; Navajo sorcerers that can change into different animals depending on which skin he dons. A skinwalker practices dark magic, and complete his or her apprenticeship by murdering a member of his or her own family.
                                • Brett Ritter
                                  ... I do not want to ignore the great work on the rest of this, but I m currently overwhelmed by the need to shake my head and say raptors .
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Feb 20, 2013
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                                    On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 5:26 PM, dave_joria <dave.joria@...> wrote:
                                    > Especially good for animal lovers who don't mind playing a character that is occasionally four legged and has trouble with doorknobs.

                                    I do not want to ignore the great work on the rest of this, but I'm
                                    currently overwhelmed by the need to shake my head and say "raptors".

                                    http://25.media.tumblr.com/34e26e72b74660cc1c47395b0eff66da/tumblr_mgmdlwCAFc1qayxw3o1_500.jpg
                                    --
                                    Brett Ritter / SwiftOne
                                    swiftone@...
                                  • dave_joria
                                    Ha! Well, Skeleton Crew does already have undead raptors - http://tangentartists.com/skeletoncrew/skeletoncrew_155.html But were-raptors are definitely making
                                    Message 17 of 19 , Feb 20, 2013
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                                      Ha! Well, Skeleton Crew does already have undead raptors - http://tangentartists.com/skeletoncrew/skeletoncrew_155.html

                                      But were-raptors are definitely making their way into the rulebook. Thanks for the idea!
                                    • Jonathan Lang
                                      Why do they need to be were- ?
                                      Message 18 of 19 , Feb 20, 2013
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                                        Why do they need to be "were-"?  

                                        On Feb 20, 2013, at 6:42 PM, "dave_joria" <dave.joria@...> wrote:

                                         

                                        Ha! Well, Skeleton Crew does already have undead raptors - http://tangentartists.com/skeletoncrew/skeletoncrew_155.html

                                        But were-raptors are definitely making their way into the rulebook. Thanks for the idea!

                                      • Brett Ritter
                                        ... because one should always beware raptors! ...thank you, thank you, I ll be here all week -- Brett Ritter / SwiftOne swiftone@swiftone.org
                                        Message 19 of 19 , Feb 20, 2013
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                                          On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 6:45 PM, Jonathan Lang <dataweaver@...> wrote:
                                          > Why do they need to be "were-"?

                                          because one should always beware raptors!

                                          ...thank you, thank you, I'll be here all week
                                          --
                                          Brett Ritter / SwiftOne
                                          swiftone@...
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