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Re: [FateRPG] How to Handle a "Class"

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  • Hollis McCray
    ... True. But think of classes more like the character types from Dresden. Nothing s included with them, except a Refresh reduction. Instead, what they give is
    Message 1 of 13 , Feb 14, 2013
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      On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 4:57 AM, Lisa Steele <steelelaw@...> wrote:
       



      -----Original Message-----
      >From: Brett Ritter swiftone@...>
      >Sent: Feb 13, 2013 10:21 PM
      >To: FateRPG@yahoogroups.com
      >Subject: Re: [FateRPG] How to Handle a "Class"
      >
      >On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 7:05 PM, RPG Reviews & Columns


      >grumpyrpgreviews@...> wrote:
      >> So I am new here and still trying to get a handle on certain aspects (no pun intended) of Fate. How do you suggest handling creating something like a class?
      >
      >Classes are pretty much artificial concepts. It maps to things in
      >RPGs, but not to things in life.

      But they do fit certain societies where roles are narrowly drawn. It is important in a medieval-ish society if you are a noble, clergy, peasant, townsperson, or semi-outsider (say a Muslim scholar from Norman Sicily travelling to Paris as part his lord's court). You could require a high-concept (or aspect) that reflects your social role, which may limit or cap some skills without further aspects or explanations, or provide or limit some extras.


      True. But think of classes more like the character types from Dresden. Nothing's included with them, except a Refresh reduction. Instead, what they give is a guideline of how to build your character. They *must* have certain powers, and can have certain others. 

      And it may be important to the narrative that there are these roles -- how they map to the PCs is a different question about the setting design.

      Yep, and that's something that needs to be worked out in campaign design. 

      --
      Hollis McCray
      aka The Fifth Wanderer

      ascensionschild@...

      "GMing is like herding cats. Wet, angry cats who are pumped full of LSD and methamphetamines." - Stolen from some forum sig somewhere
    • John Rudd
      My take on classes (for the OSR-ish game I m working on): Aspects, probably part of your High Concept (with some ability to add other class names to your high
      Message 2 of 13 , Feb 14, 2013
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        My take on classes (for the OSR-ish game I'm working on):

        Aspects, probably part of your High Concept (with some ability to add other class names to your high concept if you multi-class down the road).

        Special class abilities:

        Free class abilities: I'm not really going to have any.  I mean, there's the regular invoke/compel stuff for FP.  But, I'm not doing the general D&D 3.x thing where you get a certain number of starting "Feats/Features" that you get for free.  I'm somewhat basing that on the fact that I'm really doing WRM (where EVERYONE is a multi-classed Warrior/Rogue/Sage, just with different emphasis within the 3 "classes") with some ability to apply it to OSR-D&D ... and I'm also basing it on the D&D 3.x "Unearthed Arcana" book, which presented Generic Classes ... where every class ability was a Feat, and you just got lots of feats as you advanced, and you used that to build your generic class into a more complex class.

        Class Feats/Features: Stunts associated with your class Aspect, used to flesh out what special things the character can and can't do, that go beyond the invoke/compel economy.

        I'm thinking about having a high number of initial Stunts/Refresh (hearing that DF goes with a high initial number, relative to FC, is where I'm going with that), but I haven't decided on how many just yet.  The reasoning is: to flesh out your starting "class abilities", you'll have a few Refresh to spend on those Stunts that give your character their initial "I don't have to spend FP to do the things I expect my class to do for free".

        So, if you're a spell caster, then you're really an apprentice if you have no Stunts to back it up.  To cast spells in that situation, you invoke your class Aspect and pay an FP for it.  But, you can add a Stunt that gives you a category of spell casting without spending an FP... and that's what moves you up from the apprentice level of ability.  That represents your character's advancement within their spell casting class.

        Like one of the WRM options, spell casting ability will be broken down into multiple tiers (like D&D "Spell Levels").  Unlike WRM, I'll probably also break it out into general spell casting flavors (probably D&D-ish Arcane, Divine, and Psionic ... possibly also Innate (spell-like abilities), Mutations, and Powers (forward thinking for other genres).  So, as you get more Refresh (linked to the idea of "Levels"), you go up in spell casting sophistication.


        On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 5:27 AM, Hollis McCray <ascensionschild@...> wrote:
         



        On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 4:57 AM, Lisa Steele <steelelaw@...> wrote:
         



        -----Original Message-----
        >From: Brett Ritter swiftone@...>
        >Sent: Feb 13, 2013 10:21 PM
        >To: FateRPG@yahoogroups.com
        >Subject: Re: [FateRPG] How to Handle a "Class"
        >
        >On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 7:05 PM, RPG Reviews & Columns


        >grumpyrpgreviews@...> wrote:
        >> So I am new here and still trying to get a handle on certain aspects (no pun intended) of Fate. How do you suggest handling creating something like a class?
        >
        >Classes are pretty much artificial concepts. It maps to things in
        >RPGs, but not to things in life.

        But they do fit certain societies where roles are narrowly drawn. It is important in a medieval-ish society if you are a noble, clergy, peasant, townsperson, or semi-outsider (say a Muslim scholar from Norman Sicily travelling to Paris as part his lord's court). You could require a high-concept (or aspect) that reflects your social role, which may limit or cap some skills without further aspects or explanations, or provide or limit some extras.


        True. But think of classes more like the character types from Dresden. Nothing's included with them, except a Refresh reduction. Instead, what they give is a guideline of how to build your character. They *must* have certain powers, and can have certain others. 

        And it may be important to the narrative that there are these roles -- how they map to the PCs is a different question about the setting design.

        Yep, and that's something that needs to be worked out in campaign design. 

        --
        Hollis McCray
        aka The Fifth Wanderer

        ascensionschild@...

        "GMing is like herding cats. Wet, angry cats who are pumped full of LSD and methamphetamines." - Stolen from some forum sig somewhere


      • Paolo
        There is many ways to handle the class concept depending from the meaning of the word class in your setting. If the term class means simply a loose concept
        Message 3 of 13 , Feb 14, 2013
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          There is many ways to handle the class concept depending from the meaning of the word class in your setting.

          If the term class means simply a loose concept that has not impact on the "setting" life iti is quite easy to model class only with aspects.

          If the setting implies clss in the ancient meaning of the term, as in L5R, and so consistent part of the knowledge is accessible only depending fron class appartenence then you can model class with High concept, and Aspect dependendent Extras.


          Hi
          PAOLO


          --- In FateRPG@yahoogroups.com, "RPG Reviews & Columns" wrote:
          >
          > So I am new here and still trying to get a handle on certain aspects (no pun intended) of Fate. How do you suggest handling creating something like a class?
          >
          > For example, for the sake of simplicity, bards. They can create music to move people emotionally one way or another. How do you reproduce that in Fate? I am thinking of using a stunt.
          >
        • James Malaspino
          Just to get a feel for your aim. What system of magic are you aiming for in this world as the most applicable to the characters. The reason I ask, is because
          Message 4 of 13 , Feb 14, 2013
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            Just to get a feel for your aim. What system of "magic" are you aiming for in this world as the most applicable to the characters. The reason I ask, is because there is a huge difference between wrm hybrids with storm binding/summoning, subtle arts, and vizer powers both in terms of magic scope,& magic skills/methods

            From: John Rudd
            Sent: ‎2/‎14/‎2013 9:39 AM
            To: FateRPG@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [FateRPG] How to Handle a "Class"

             

            My take on classes (for the OSR-ish game I'm working on):

            Aspects, probably part of your High Concept (with some ability to add other class names to your high concept if you multi-class down the road).

            Special class abilities:

            Free class abilities: I'm not really going to have any.  I mean, there's the regular invoke/compel stuff for FP.  But, I'm not doing the general D&D 3.x thing where you get a certain number of starting "Feats/Features" that you get for free.  I'm somewhat basing that on the fact that I'm really doing WRM (where EVERYONE is a multi-classed Warrior/Rogue/Sage, just with different emphasis within the 3 "classes") with some ability to apply it to OSR-D&D ... and I'm also basing it on the D&D 3.x "Unearthed Arcana" book, which presented Generic Classes ... where every class ability was a Feat, and you just got lots of feats as you advanced, and you used that to build your generic class into a more complex class.

            Class Feats/Features: Stunts associated with your class Aspect, used to flesh out what special things the character can and can't do, that go beyond the invoke/compel economy.

            I'm thinking about having a high number of initial Stunts/Refresh (hearing that DF goes with a high initial number, relative to FC, is where I'm going with that), but I haven't decided on how many just yet.  The reasoning is: to flesh out your starting "class abilities", you'll have a few Refresh to spend on those Stunts that give your character their initial "I don't have to spend FP to do the things I expect my class to do for free".

            So, if you're a spell caster, then you're really an apprentice if you have no Stunts to back it up.  To cast spells in that situation, you invoke your class Aspect and pay an FP for it.  But, you can add a Stunt that gives you a category of spell casting without spending an FP... and that's what moves you up from the apprentice level of ability.  That represents your character's advancement within their spell casting class.

            Like one of the WRM options, spell casting ability will be broken down into multiple tiers (like D&D "Spell Levels").  Unlike WRM, I'll probably also break it out into general spell casting flavors (probably D&D-ish Arcane, Divine, and Psionic ... possibly also Innate (spell-like abilities), Mutations, and Powers (forward thinking for other genres).  So, as you get more Refresh (linked to the idea of "Levels"), you go up in spell casting sophistication.


            On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 5:27 AM, Hollis McCray <ascensionschild@...> wrote:
             



            On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 4:57 AM, Lisa Steele <steelelaw@...> wrote:
             



            -----Original Message-----
            >From: Brett Ritter swiftone@...>
            >Sent: Feb 13, 2013 10:21 PM
            >To: FateRPG@yahoogroups.com
            >Subject: Re: [FateRPG] How to Handle a "Class"
            >
            >On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 7:05 PM, RPG Reviews & Columns


            >grumpyrpgreviews@...> wrote:
            >> So I am new here and still trying to get a handle on certain aspects (no pun intended) of Fate. How do you suggest handling creating something like a class?
            >
            >Classes are pretty much artificial concepts. It maps to things in
            >RPGs, but not to things in life.

            But they do fit certain societies where roles are narrowly drawn. It is important in a medieval-ish society if you are a noble, clergy, peasant, townsperson, or semi-outsider (say a Muslim scholar from Norman Sicily travelling to Paris as part his lord's court). You could require a high-concept (or aspect) that reflects your social role, which may limit or cap some skills without further aspects or explanations, or provide or limit some extras.


            True. But think of classes more like the character types from Dresden. Nothing's included with them, except a Refresh reduction. Instead, what they give is a guideline of how to build your character. They *must* have certain powers, and can have certain others. 

            And it may be important to the narrative that there are these roles -- how they map to the PCs is a different question about the setting design.

            Yep, and that's something that needs to be worked out in campaign design. 

            --
            Hollis McCray
            aka The Fifth Wanderer

            ascensionschild@...

            "GMing is like herding cats. Wet, angry cats who are pumped full of LSD and methamphetamines." - Stolen from some forum sig somewhere


          • John Rudd
            Starting with the spells in WRM, and expanding to cover any bases left out from SW s very generic base spells, and eventually some of the lower level things in
            Message 5 of 13 , Feb 14, 2013
            • 0 Attachment
              Starting with the spells in WRM, and expanding to cover any bases left out from SW's very generic base spells, and eventually some of the lower level things in OSR products (some of which will be "use [WRM spell] with this role playing flourish")... and maybe eventually expanding that to cover most of the 3.x SRD spells (if I ever get that far).

              I also want to go the direction of using Mental Stress instead of a separate mana stress track .... but I've also thought of that being a Stunt (a stunt to establish having a separate stress track for each flavor of magic/power -- one each for arcane magic, divine magic, psionics, and super-powers).

              So, basically, I expect (mechanically) to have a good set of generic spells from WRM and Savage Worlds (but primarily from WRM).  Most things from OSR and D&D 3.x spell lists, I expect, will be references to ways to use those spells in more specific ways.  I expect spells to all be castable by anyone, but "Spell Level" stunts expand the maximum difficulty/range/area/damage factors (as they mostly do in WRM).  So, there aren't N different "cure X wounds" spells, there's 1 spell that you scale to the situation, and it has a higher skill roll difficulty as you do so.

              Those are my thoughts right now.

              On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 9:50 AM, James Malaspino <afategm@...> wrote:
               

              Just to get a feel for your aim. What system of "magic" are you aiming for in this world as the most applicable to the characters. The reason I ask, is because there is a huge difference between wrm hybrids with storm binding/summoning, subtle arts, and vizer powers both in terms of magic scope,& magic skills/methods

              From: John Rudd
              Sent: 2/14/2013 9:39 AM

              To: FateRPG@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [FateRPG] How to Handle a "Class"

               

              My take on classes (for the OSR-ish game I'm working on):

              Aspects, probably part of your High Concept (with some ability to add other class names to your high concept if you multi-class down the road).

              Special class abilities:

              Free class abilities: I'm not really going to have any.  I mean, there's the regular invoke/compel stuff for FP.  But, I'm not doing the general D&D 3.x thing where you get a certain number of starting "Feats/Features" that you get for free.  I'm somewhat basing that on the fact that I'm really doing WRM (where EVERYONE is a multi-classed Warrior/Rogue/Sage, just with different emphasis within the 3 "classes") with some ability to apply it to OSR-D&D ... and I'm also basing it on the D&D 3.x "Unearthed Arcana" book, which presented Generic Classes ... where every class ability was a Feat, and you just got lots of feats as you advanced, and you used that to build your generic class into a more complex class.

              Class Feats/Features: Stunts associated with your class Aspect, used to flesh out what special things the character can and can't do, that go beyond the invoke/compel economy.

              I'm thinking about having a high number of initial Stunts/Refresh (hearing that DF goes with a high initial number, relative to FC, is where I'm going with that), but I haven't decided on how many just yet.  The reasoning is: to flesh out your starting "class abilities", you'll have a few Refresh to spend on those Stunts that give your character their initial "I don't have to spend FP to do the things I expect my class to do for free".

              So, if you're a spell caster, then you're really an apprentice if you have no Stunts to back it up.  To cast spells in that situation, you invoke your class Aspect and pay an FP for it.  But, you can add a Stunt that gives you a category of spell casting without spending an FP... and that's what moves you up from the apprentice level of ability.  That represents your character's advancement within their spell casting class.

              Like one of the WRM options, spell casting ability will be broken down into multiple tiers (like D&D "Spell Levels").  Unlike WRM, I'll probably also break it out into general spell casting flavors (probably D&D-ish Arcane, Divine, and Psionic ... possibly also Innate (spell-like abilities), Mutations, and Powers (forward thinking for other genres).  So, as you get more Refresh (linked to the idea of "Levels"), you go up in spell casting sophistication.


              On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 5:27 AM, Hollis McCray <ascensionschild@...> wrote:
               



              On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 4:57 AM, Lisa Steele <steelelaw@...> wrote:
               



              -----Original Message-----
              >From: Brett Ritter swiftone@...>
              >Sent: Feb 13, 2013 10:21 PM
              >To: FateRPG@yahoogroups.com
              >Subject: Re: [FateRPG] How to Handle a "Class"
              >
              >On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 7:05 PM, RPG Reviews & Columns


              >grumpyrpgreviews@...> wrote:
              >> So I am new here and still trying to get a handle on certain aspects (no pun intended) of Fate. How do you suggest handling creating something like a class?
              >
              >Classes are pretty much artificial concepts. It maps to things in
              >RPGs, but not to things in life.

              But they do fit certain societies where roles are narrowly drawn. It is important in a medieval-ish society if you are a noble, clergy, peasant, townsperson, or semi-outsider (say a Muslim scholar from Norman Sicily travelling to Paris as part his lord's court). You could require a high-concept (or aspect) that reflects your social role, which may limit or cap some skills without further aspects or explanations, or provide or limit some extras.


              True. But think of classes more like the character types from Dresden. Nothing's included with them, except a Refresh reduction. Instead, what they give is a guideline of how to build your character. They *must* have certain powers, and can have certain others. 

              And it may be important to the narrative that there are these roles -- how they map to the PCs is a different question about the setting design.

              Yep, and that's something that needs to be worked out in campaign design. 

              --
              Hollis McCray
              aka The Fifth Wanderer

              ascensionschild@...

              "GMing is like herding cats. Wet, angry cats who are pumped full of LSD and methamphetamines." - Stolen from some forum sig somewhere



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