Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: 'GM' Fate Points

Expand Messages
  • ian_orourke
    Okay..back to this one..a bit of resurrection! I must admit the only FP I am spending come from two sources:- (1) The FP an NPC has (2) An infinite supply used
    Message 1 of 25 , Feb 9, 2013
      Okay..back to this one..a bit of resurrection!

      I must admit the only FP I am spending come from two sources:-

      (1) The FP an NPC has
      (2) An infinite supply used for compels / aspects on the PC's sheets

      I have no problem (2) being infinite as, of course, the players chose those aspects, they like them being compelled and they get the FP anyway so it sorts itself out.

      It was (1) I was looking for a solution for both because it might save me time if I'm not fully statting NPC's (they never use all those skills anyway) or I using lots of lesser PC's (minions, something in between). It also tends to mean NPC's enter scenes often with full FP while a PC has probably depleted (which is not necessarily a bad thing, but it happens).

      As for tagging scene aspects and things like that well that again came from the NPC's pool or this new system I'm trying to get to which divorces FP in a scene from NPC pools.

      Some method of deciding what FP I can use without it being unlimited or an NPC resource would be cool?
    • PK Levine
      ... Maybe I need to reread that section, but I didn t think the GM was supposed to bother determining exactly how many FP each bad guy had. Instead, you just
      Message 2 of 25 , Feb 9, 2013
        On Saturday, February 09, 2013 05:18:01 am ian_orourke wrote:
        > Some method of deciding what FP I can use without it being unlimited or an
        > NPC resource would be cool?

        Maybe I need to reread that section, but I didn't think the GM was supposed to
        bother determining exactly how many FP each bad guy had. Instead, you just
        make a general "antagonist pool" with FP equal to the number of PCs and share
        it among all your bad guys.

        If I misunderstood your question (or misread those rules), let me know.

        PK
      • ian_orourke
        That may exist in some FATE iteration but it doesn t in the ones I have read. I m not sure how that would either - are we saying a scene with two PC s in
        Message 3 of 25 , Feb 10, 2013
          That may exist in some FATE iteration but it doesn't in the ones I have read.

          I'm not sure how that would either - are we saying a scene with two PC's in creates a pool of 2 FP?

          Ian

          --- In FateRPG@yahoogroups.com, PK Levine wrote:
          >
          > On Saturday, February 09, 2013 05:18:01 am ian_orourke wrote:
          > > Some method of deciding what FP I can use without it being unlimited or an
          > > NPC resource would be cool?
          >
          > Maybe I need to reread that section, but I didn't think the GM was supposed to
          > bother determining exactly how many FP each bad guy had. Instead, you just
          > make a general "antagonist pool" with FP equal to the number of PCs and share
          > it among all your bad guys.
          >
          > If I misunderstood your question (or misread those rules), let me know.
          >
          > PK
          >
        • ian_orourke
          Hah..this rule is in Fate Core. I m working on an amalgamation of Spirit of the Century, Starblazers with some stuff from Dresden - none of which have that
          Message 4 of 25 , Feb 10, 2013
            Hah..this rule is in Fate Core. I'm working on an amalgamation of Spirit of the Century, Starblazers with some stuff from Dresden - none of which have that rule on the size of the GM Pool per scene.

            Interesting.

            I note you only get 1 per PC as you say - but I assume that is based on the Refresh of 3 or less presented in Fate Core. Does anyone have any ideas on whether the FP per PC available should be increased if you have a larger refresh?

            I have 8 minus stunts - which means the player pools between recesses is much bigger. I don't say this from a winning point of view, more so the conflicts are challenging and have drama and an edge.

            --- In FateRPG@yahoogroups.com, PK Levine wrote:

            > Maybe I need to reread that section, but I didn't think the GM was supposed to
            > bother determining exactly how many FP each bad guy had. Instead, you just
            > make a general "antagonist pool" with FP equal to the number of PCs and share
            > it among all your bad guys.
            >
          • Dustin Evermore
            I would suggest that, if you build your NPCs to challenge the PCs, then they would have similar or more spent refresh. So, the math kind of washes out, making
            Message 5 of 25 , Feb 10, 2013
              I would suggest that, if you build your NPCs to challenge the PCs, then they would have similar or more spent refresh. So, the math kind of washes out, making it about 1 FP per PC again. Even if they haven't spent most of their refresh on stunts or extras, do so on your main NPCs.

              D Evermore

              On Feb 10, 2013, at 3:45 AM, ian_orourke <fandomlife@...> wrote:

              Hah..this rule is in Fate Core. I'm working on an amalgamation of Spirit of the Century, Starblazers with some stuff from Dresden - none of which have that rule on the size of the GM Pool per scene.

              Interesting.

              I note you only get 1 per PC as you say - but I assume that is based on the Refresh of 3 or less presented in Fate Core. Does anyone have any ideas on whether the FP per PC available should be increased if you have a larger refresh?

              I have 8 minus stunts - which means the player pools between recesses is much bigger. I don't say this from a winning point of view, more so the conflicts are challenging and have drama and an edge.

              ---
              There are two rules for ultimate success in life: Never tell everything you know.


            • Bill Johnson
              Hello all. Been lurking here on the Group for a while now. Anyhow, I got a question from my players which stumped me. I have a player who is using Unseelighe
              Message 6 of 25 , Feb 10, 2013

                Hello all. Been lurking here on the Group for a while now.

                 

                Anyhow, I got a question from my players which stumped me.

                 

                I have a player who is using Unseelighe Magic. We’re trying to determine whether they can put all 4 focus items into Evocation or into Thaumaturgy, or if it is 2 and 2 like a Wizard.

                 

                Also, there is at least one sample character who has a focus item in Your Story, for their Sponsored Magic, anyone know the limits of this? Or how this one works?

                 

                Thanks

                 

                Peace and Long Life,

                 

                Bill

                Shadows Over New York - A DFRPG Campaign

                 

                 

              • James Malaspino
                The best a,swer to your question imho is likely some variant of how does the group feel about the idea? ... From: Bill Johnson Sent:
                Message 7 of 25 , Feb 10, 2013
                  The best a,swer to your question imho is likely some variant of "how does the group feel about the idea?"

                  From: Bill Johnson
                  Sent: ‎2/‎10/‎2013 5:22 PM
                  To: FateRPG@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [FateRPG] DSRPG Question

                   

                  Hello all. Been lurking here on the Group for a while now.

                   

                  Anyhow, I got a question from my players which stumped me.

                   

                  I have a player who is using Unseelighe Magic. We’re trying to determine whether they can put all 4 focus items into Evocation or into Thaumaturgy, or if it is 2 and 2 like a Wizard.

                   

                  Also, there is at least one sample character who has a focus item in Your Story, for their Sponsored Magic, anyone know the limits of this? Or how this one works?

                   

                  Thanks

                   

                  Peace and Long Life,

                   

                  Bill

                  Shadows Over New York - A DFRPG Campaign

                   

                   

                • ian_orourke
                  ... You ve lost me on that one. If I m using the Fate Core method of allocating GM FP in a scene based on number of PC s present the Refresh of the NPC s in
                  Message 8 of 25 , Feb 11, 2013
                    --- In FateRPG@yahoogroups.com, Dustin Evermore wrote:
                    >
                    > I would suggest that, if you build your NPCs to challenge the PCs, then they would have similar or more spent refresh. So, the math kind of washes out, making it about 1 FP per PC again. Even if they haven't spent most of their refresh on stunts or extras, do so on your main NPCs.
                    >
                    > D Evermore

                    You've lost me on that one. If I'm using the Fate Core method of allocating GM FP in a scene based on number of PC's present the Refresh of the NPC's in the scene becomes irrelevant doesn't it? I thought that was the point to shift GM FP away from individuals NPC refresh pools?

                    I may be missing something.
                  • Hollis McCray
                    ... In Fate Core, NPCs don t get a Refresh Rating. NPCs instead spend FP from the GM s pool. So NPCs can effectively have as many stunts as they want. That
                    Message 9 of 25 , Feb 11, 2013
                      On Mon, Feb 11, 2013 at 3:22 AM, ian_orourke <fandomlife@...> wrote:
                       



                      --- In FateRPG@yahoogroups.com, Dustin Evermore wrote:
                      >
                      > I would suggest that, if you build your NPCs to challenge the PCs, then they would have similar or more spent refresh. So, the math kind of washes out, making it about 1 FP per PC again. Even if they haven't spent most of their refresh on stunts or extras, do so on your main NPCs.
                      >
                      > D Evermore

                      You've lost me on that one. If I'm using the Fate Core method of allocating GM FP in a scene based on number of PC's present the Refresh of the NPC's in the scene becomes irrelevant doesn't it? I thought that was the point to shift GM FP away from individuals NPC refresh pools?

                      I may be missing something.

                      In Fate Core, NPCs don't get a Refresh Rating. NPCs instead spend FP from the GM's pool. So NPCs can effectively have as many stunts as they want.

                      That reminds me about something that occurred to me earlier and I forgot about it.  When you invoke someone else's aspects, they get a FP at the end of the scene. But for NPCs these vanish at the end of the scene, except for FP from concessions. Do I have this right?
                      --
                      Hollis McCray
                      aka The Fifth Wanderer

                      ascensionschild@...

                      "GMing is like herding cats. Wet, angry cats who are pumped full of LSD and methamphetamines." - Stolen from some forum sig somewhere
                    • Dustin Evermore
                      ... That s correct. We were discussing how many Fate points to use for the npcs. I was suggesting there is an inherent balance, that more than one per pc
                      Message 10 of 25 , Feb 11, 2013

                        On Feb 11, 2013, at 4:22 AM, ian_orourke <fandomlife@...> wrote:

                        > I would suggest that, if you build your NPCs to challenge the PCs, then they would have similar or more spent refresh. So, the math kind of washes out, making it about 1 FP per PC again. Even if they haven't spent most of their refresh on stunts or extras, do so on your main NPCs.
                        > 
                        > D Evermore

                        You've lost me on that one. If I'm using the Fate Core method of allocating GM FP in a scene based on number of PC's present the Refresh of the NPC's in the scene becomes irrelevant doesn't it? I thought that was the point to shift GM FP away from individuals NPC refresh pools?

                        I may be missing something.

                        That's correct. We were discussing how many Fate points to use for the npcs. I was suggesting there is an inherent balance, that more than one per pc shouldn't be needed if your npcs are balanced against the pcs.

                        D Evermore

                        ---
                        Get your mind out of the gutter! Grab mine while you're there, please.



                      • PK Levine
                        ... This is incorrect. See The GM and Fate Points (p. 85). The GM has unlimited FP for the purpose of compels and concessions only. When it comes to his
                        Message 11 of 25 , Feb 11, 2013
                          On Monday, February 11, 2013 07:57:24 am Hollis McCray wrote:
                          > In Fate Core, NPCs don't get a Refresh Rating. NPCs instead spend FP from
                          > the GM's pool. So NPCs can effectively have as many stunts as they want.

                          This is incorrect. See "The GM and Fate Points" (p. 85). The GM has unlimited
                          FP for the purpose of compels and concessions only. When it comes to his NPCs,
                          he has a pool each scene equal to the number of PCs in that scene.

                          > That reminds me about something that occurred to me earlier and I forgot
                          > about it. When you invoke someone else's aspects, they get a FP at the end
                          > of the scene. But for NPCs these vanish at the end of the scene, except for
                          > FP from concessions. Do I have this right?

                          That's exactly right. "If an NPC concedes a conflict and that concession ends
                          the scene, you [the GM] get to keep the fate points earned from that
                          concession in the next scene."

                          PK
                        • PK Levine
                          ... ARGH. Wait, I misread you COMPLETELY. Sorry. What you say here is 100% right. PK
                          Message 12 of 25 , Feb 11, 2013
                            On Monday, February 11, 2013 02:09:15 pm PK Levine wrote:
                            > On Monday, February 11, 2013 07:57:24 am Hollis McCray wrote:
                            > > In Fate Core, NPCs don't get a Refresh Rating. NPCs instead spend FP from
                            > > the GM's pool. So NPCs can effectively have as many stunts as they want.
                            >
                            > This is incorrect.

                            ARGH. Wait, I misread you COMPLETELY.

                            Sorry.

                            What you say here is 100% right.

                            PK
                          • RPG Reviews & Columns
                            I am at the wrong computer - or at least one without my FATE pdf - but that *feels* right.
                            Message 13 of 25 , Feb 12, 2013
                              I am at the wrong computer - or at least one without my FATE pdf - but that *feels* right.

                              --- In FateRPG@yahoogroups.com, PK Levine wrote:
                              >
                              > On Saturday, February 09, 2013 05:18:01 am ian_orourke wrote:
                              > > Some method of deciding what FP I can use without it being unlimited or an
                              > > NPC resource would be cool?
                              >
                              > Maybe I need to reread that section, but I didn't think the GM was supposed to
                              > bother determining exactly how many FP each bad guy had. Instead, you just
                              > make a general "antagonist pool" with FP equal to the number of PCs and share
                              > it among all your bad guys.
                              >
                              > If I misunderstood your question (or misread those rules), let me know.
                              >
                              > PK
                              >
                            • Dr. Nuncheon
                              Here s the text from FATE Core. I think the rule changes with every iteration of FATE. The NPCs under your control are not so lucky. They have a limited pool
                              Message 14 of 25 , Feb 12, 2013
                                Here's the text from FATE Core.  I think the rule changes with every iteration of  FATE.

                                The NPCs under your control are not so lucky. They have a limited pool
                                of fate points you get to use on their behalf. Whenever a scene starts, you
                                get one fate point for every PC in that scene.
                                These points belong to a general pool you have, which you can use on
                                behalf of any NPC you want. You also get fate points if an NPC gets earns
                                them the same way that a PC does—someone invokes one of their aspects,
                                you concede from a conflict on behalf of that NPC, or you accept a playerdriven
                                compel.
                                Note that in almost all cases, these fate points go away at the end of the
                                scene and, at the beginning of the next scene, you generate a new pool of
                                fate points. If you don’t use them, they’re gone. The only exception to this
                                is with concessions that occur at the end of a scene. If an NPC concedes a
                                conflict and that concession ends the scene, you get to keep the fate points
                                earned from that concession in the next scene.

                                In Spirit of the Century, NPCs seem to use the same rule as PCs (1/aspect).  For Dresden, main NPCs use PC rules, supporting NPCs get 1 per scene they are in, and Nameless only get them if they get compelled or have an aspect used against them.


                                On 2/12/2013 3:13 PM, RPG Reviews & Columns wrote:
                                I am at the wrong computer - or at least one without my FATE pdf - but that *feels* right. 
                                
                                --- In FateRPG@yahoogroups.com, PK Levine  wrote:
                                
                                On Saturday, February 09, 2013 05:18:01 am ian_orourke wrote:
                                
                                Some method of deciding what FP I can use without it being unlimited or an
                                NPC resource would be cool?
                                
                                Maybe I need to reread that section, but I didn't think the GM was supposed to 
                                bother determining exactly how many FP each bad guy had. Instead, you just 
                                make a general "antagonist pool" with FP equal to the number of PCs and share 
                                it among all your bad guys.
                                
                                If I misunderstood your question (or misread those rules), let me know.
                                
                                PK
                                
                                
                                
                                
                                
                                ------------------------------------
                                
                                | Fate * http://www.faterpg.com/ 
                                | DFRPG * http://www.dresdenfilesrpg.com/
                                | Evil Hat * http://www.evilhat.com/
                                | Evil Hat Fan Wiki * http://evilhat.wikidot.com/Yahoo! Groups Links
                                
                                <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FateRPG/
                                
                                <*> Your email settings:
                                    Individual Email | Traditional
                                
                                <*> To change settings online go to:
                                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FateRPG/join
                                    (Yahoo! ID required)
                                
                                <*> To change settings via email:
                                    FateRPG-digest@yahoogroups.com 
                                    FateRPG-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
                                
                                <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                    FateRPG-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                
                                <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
                                    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                
                                

                              • ghostfacer77
                                ... First of all, SOOOO glad this question has come up, and I am LOVING the ideas being spread so far. Feel free to tell me if I m missing something: but I am
                                Message 15 of 25 , Mar 29, 2013
                                  --- In FateRPG@yahoogroups.com, Fred Hicks <evilhat@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > You could either set aside the idea of NPC refresh being a factor at all
                                  > (they're tools of the plot) if you're using the rule I suggested, or you
                                  > could use "tick marks" to keep track of how many were spent on their behalf
                                  > and still have those go into the redistribution pool, or stick strictly to
                                  > the rule I suggested only for fate point spends that don't come from an NPC
                                  > supply. Consider that a dial. :)

                                  First of all, SOOOO glad this question has come up, and I am LOVING the ideas being spread so far.

                                  Feel free to tell me if I'm missing something: but I am having a hard time understanding how a GM spends FP in a way that is NOT by an NPC?!?!?

                                  The way I see it (and again, I could be missing something, please tell me), is a GM spends FP one of two ways:

                                  1) compelling PC aspects by giving FP directly to player. This, of course, does not come out of any supply (or does it??), because it is the GM coercing the character into contributing to the way a story is run.

                                  2) invoking scene/character aspects on behalf of the antagonistic NPC's in order to have them better confront the PCs (usually during some sort of conflict). It seems to me that this discussion (and the portion that confuses me) is that this SECOND method is being separated into two: NPCs and general GM "piles". Now, is the NPC pile for noncombat NPCs (background characters, etc?), because if so, I see those noncombat situations coming out of the GM pile (actually, since those are in a noncombat situation, there really shouldn't be any rolling at all, just RP). If the "NPC" pile is for combat NPCs, I really don't see the need for separating those FP from the "GM" pile. Are many people doing it this way, keeping them separate? If so, what benefits do you get out of that?

                                  Thanks in advance
                                Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.