Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [FateRPG] Fate Heresy!

Expand Messages
  • Leonard Balsera
    I m just happy that Brett started a thread that didn t make me have to revise the manuscript. :) -Lenny
    Message 1 of 13 , Feb 4, 2013
    • 0 Attachment

      I'm just happy that Brett started a thread that didn't make me have to revise the manuscript. :)

      -Lenny

    • James Malaspino
      I dunno about that, Fred & Lenny gave good reasons but there is also the yes it does, and if it doesn t, I ll make it so problem jim butcher says about
      Message 2 of 13 , Feb 5, 2013
      • 0 Attachment
        I dunno about that, Fred & Lenny gave good reasons but there is also the "yes it does, and if it doesn't, I'll make it so" problem jim butcher says about dfrpg. I think the test is more " when you run a public game with your own system while spending 20some years fighting against the idea of a system update, do you at least pretend to be using something close to the rules you've been saying don't need any tweaks" ;) I wont outright say the system 😜

        From: Nobilis Reed
        Sent: ‎2/‎4/‎2013 7:46 PM
        To: FateRPG@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [FateRPG] Fate Heresy!

         

        Perhaps. But if a game you designed isn't your favorite for realz then there's something wrong.

        On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 7:36 PM, Fred Hicks <evilhat@...> wrote:
         

        It's bad form to consider a system you designed yourself as your favorite. :)


      • Hollis McCray
        ... That goes for players & GMs too. Mutants & Masterminds is my fave for superhero games, but I also run other superhero systems. I recently picked up the
        Message 3 of 13 , Feb 5, 2013
        • 0 Attachment
          On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 6:41 PM, Fred Hicks <evilhat@...> wrote:
           

          On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 7:41 PM, Nobilis Reed <authornobilis@...> wrote:
          Perhaps. But if a game you designed isn't your favorite for realz then there's something wrong.

          I gotta disagree, based on the last ten years. That's like saying artists have to love every piece they create and I know for a fact that ain't true. :)

          By the time you get a game out to the public you've spent a lot of time with it. Everyone else's fresh discovery of the thing is your old hat; the "shear" there can be brutal sometimes. 

          I fall in and out of love with Fate now and again. There's no shame in that and nothing wrong with it either. Sometimes familiarity breeds contempt, right? Thanks to Lenny, at least, I'm back in love with the thing. :)


          That goes for players & GMs too. Mutants & Masterminds is my fave for superhero games, but I also run other superhero systems. I recently picked up the Essential Edition of Wild Talents, and I'm thinking of grabbing the full rulebook. But then there's Fate Core to consider.... and I do have a nice set of dice from Artisan Dice on its way....
           
          --
          Hollis McCray
          aka The Fifth Wanderer

          ascensionschild@...

          "GMing is like herding cats. Wet, angry cats who are pumped full of LSD and methamphetamines." - Stolen from some forum sig somewhere
        • John Rudd
          I ve created a number of games over the years... some going back as far as the early 80 s, when I wanted to do my own D&D game. And, some of them have been
          Message 4 of 13 , Feb 5, 2013
          • 0 Attachment
            I've created a number of games over the years... some going back as far as the early 80's, when I wanted to do my own D&D game.  And, some of them have been hugely flawed (said first game in the early 80's), while some have been experiments*.  Some of them have had more potential, some less.  All of them have had one flaw or another, or one reason to leave them behind.  For example, I built a great generic RPG out of MERP/Cyberspace ... but I don't own the copyrights to those games, so I couldn't widely share the mechanics.  That was a big reason for my move to Fudge -- a much more open game engine.

            All of that leads up to: as was pointed out, as artists, we often see, and are heavily distracted by, the flaws in our work.  It's actually a good thing -- it helps us identify where we need to learn and refine our art skills.  But it can also mean that we sometimes need to walk away from our creations.  Sometimes it's so that we can break our current train of thought, and approach things from a fresh perspective.  Sometimes its to get some emotional distance from angst built up by being around that flaw for some period of time.  And then, later, we come back to it in some fashion.

            But there's another good reason to leave our creations behind, if temporarily, and play someone else's works:  exposure to diversity.  Other people have good ideas, too.  No matter how good your ideas are, they can always benefit from other people's ideas.  In a market where those ideas are shared, you get cross-pollination that can lead to something better than each of those game design teams would have come up with on their own.  And that's a good thing.

            Knowing that Leonard Balsera and Rob Donoghue are both working on Cortex is, in my opinion, a good thing.  As long as they still have time for their commitments to Fate, it doesn't make me feel like Fate is being undermined at all.  And, even if the blurb about Cortex being Leondard's favorite system is true (as opposed to merely being hype from MWP), that just gives me hope that there might be some underlying cross-pollination of ideas that ends up improving Fate.


            (* One that comes to mind: a Fudge based game that let you do one discrete action at a time, and then made you wait until you had enough action points to act again .... which meant a whole lot of game time spent doing nothing, no matter how quickly you tried to burn through the action phases where no one had any action points, it still seemed slow ... probably because those no-op phases were an interruption to the narrative flow)


            On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 7:38 AM, Hollis McCray <ascensionschild@...> wrote:
             



            On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 6:41 PM, Fred Hicks <evilhat@...> wrote:
             

            On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 7:41 PM, Nobilis Reed <authornobilis@...> wrote:
            Perhaps. But if a game you designed isn't your favorite for realz then there's something wrong.

            I gotta disagree, based on the last ten years. That's like saying artists have to love every piece they create and I know for a fact that ain't true. :)

            By the time you get a game out to the public you've spent a lot of time with it. Everyone else's fresh discovery of the thing is your old hat; the "shear" there can be brutal sometimes. 

            I fall in and out of love with Fate now and again. There's no shame in that and nothing wrong with it either. Sometimes familiarity breeds contempt, right? Thanks to Lenny, at least, I'm back in love with the thing. :)


            That goes for players & GMs too. Mutants & Masterminds is my fave for superhero games, but I also run other superhero systems. I recently picked up the Essential Edition of Wild Talents, and I'm thinking of grabbing the full rulebook. But then there's Fate Core to consider.... and I do have a nice set of dice from Artisan Dice on its way....
             
            --
            Hollis McCray
            aka The Fifth Wanderer

            ascensionschild@...

            "GMing is like herding cats. Wet, angry cats who are pumped full of LSD and methamphetamines." - Stolen from some forum sig somewhere


          • Leonard Balsera
            ... Bingo. This. I m constantly filled with wonder over all the cool, creative stuff people are doing in RPGs. ... I wrote the blurb myself. And my experiences
            Message 5 of 13 , Feb 5, 2013
            • 0 Attachment
              On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 10:20 AM, John Rudd <johnkzin@...> wrote:
              > But there's another good reason to leave our creations behind, if temporarily,
              > and play someone else's works: exposure to diversity.

              Bingo. This. I'm constantly filled with wonder over all the cool,
              creative stuff people are doing in RPGs.

              > And, even if the blurb about Cortex being Leondard's favorite system is true
              > (as opposed to merely being hype from MWP), that just gives me hope that
              > there might be some underlying cross-pollination of ideas that ends up improving Fate.

              I wrote the blurb myself.

              And my experiences with Cortex Plus were a significant influence on
              the redesign of Fate. So was Clinton Nixon's The Shadow of Yesterday.
              So was D. Vincent Baker's Apocalypse World. So was D&D 4E. So were the
              vast library of Fate hacks y'all have done off SotC and Dresden, and
              all the published variants like Starblazer and Anglerre and Strands
              and whatnot.

              We're all learning from each other, you know? It's an embarrassment of riches.

              --
              Leonard Balsera, Fate System Developer for Evil Hat Productions
              lbalsera@...
              www.evilhat.com
              https://www.facebook.com/EvilHatProductions
            • Brett Ritter
              ... I agree...there s a reason my statement said you re allowed to love other systems while playing them :) Heck, even though three concepts I hate in RPGs
              Message 6 of 13 , Feb 5, 2013
              • 0 Attachment
                On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 8:20 AM, John Rudd <johnkzin@...> wrote:
                > But there's another good reason to leave our creations behind, if temporarily, and play someone else's works: exposure to diversity.

                I agree...there's a reason my statement said you're allowed to love
                other systems while playing them :) Heck, even though three concepts
                I hate in RPGs are classes, levels, and (vast numbers of) hit points,
                I still play D&D. I have an embarrassing number of RPGs (Well, I
                should be embarrassed, mostly I'm just smug), though many I've not
                gotten to play, I just steal ideas from them.

                Generally I have no problem when someone says "I Love X system" or
                even "X system is my favorite". "I will only play X system", however,
                is a big warning flag. Fate Core has me all twitterpated, and I think
                Leonard should love and be proud of his work in particular, but I
                never meant to imply that other systems aren't worthy of some TLC.
                (Notably, I was quoting from a kickstarter for another system that I'm
                a backer of :))

                Still though, while other systems rock as well, Leonard should totally
                be macking on Fate Core right now. If he doesn't, I might just write
                a post that DOES call for a text revision :)

                --
                Brett Ritter / SwiftOne
                swiftone@...
              • Leonard Balsera
                ... I can t continue with this thread without making analogies about my relationship to Fate Core that are unbecoming of a professional. :D -- Leonard Balsera,
                Message 7 of 13 , Feb 5, 2013
                • 0 Attachment
                  On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 11:02 AM, Brett Ritter <swiftone@...> wrote:
                  > Still though, while other systems rock as well, Leonard should totally
                  > be macking on Fate Core right now.

                  I can't continue with this thread without making analogies about my
                  relationship to Fate Core that are unbecoming of a professional. :D

                  --
                  Leonard Balsera, Fate System Developer for Evil Hat Productions
                  lbalsera@...
                  www.evilhat.com
                  https://www.facebook.com/EvilHatProductions
                Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.