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Re: [FateRPG] Zones

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  • Brett Bowen
    Thanks all, lots of good examples. So, how do you deal with logical spacial limitations? There s only so much room in the bathroom or behind the bar. Is that
    Message 1 of 11 , Jan 5, 2013
      Thanks all, lots of good examples.

      So, how do you deal with logical spacial limitations?  There's only so much room in the bathroom or behind the bar.  Is that a scene aspect on the room that compels people from overcrowding?

      Also, how do you deal with attacks over the zone borders?  It could be possible to make a fighting attack through a door from the bedroom into the bathroom, or across the bar.

      The bar brings up another issue.  If you take cover behind the bar, you create an advantage.  But then you can only gain a benefit from that advantage with the use of fate points (or free invokes)?  Or would that be setting up an obstacle that has to be beaten with an overcome action?

    • James Malaspino
      I pretty much go with whatever feels right with space issues. Sometimes that turns out to be just adding an aspect to the zone/situation (I.e. really, so you
      Message 2 of 11 , Jan 6, 2013
        I pretty much go with whatever feels right with space issues.  Sometimes that turns out to be just adding an aspect to the zone/situation (I.e. "really, so you want to climb in behind the bar, /right next to/ the acid spewing monster/?,">"err uhh no was thinking more like hopping up on the var & shooting down on it").
        If situations call for adding a zone like "on the bar", it's easy to do & causes no disturbance in plans.
        I tend to be pretty forgiving with range of attacks I'd that happens, but  the bar I'd just give a -2 point difficulty penalty to attack through to the other side if someone ducked behind it for cover  & just treat it like a maneuver(create advantage/obatacle)  Basically what/whenever it felt right. Occasionally my players might say "but wait wouldn't..."and if it seems reasonable I'll agree and move along as so, if there is some discrepancy in understanding, we clear it up.

        Ive never had overcrowding come up before, I'd probably just add an aspect if need be. As to attacking through the door in the bedroom into the bathroom, if it felt right sure you can /try/ but if you're"firing blind" & someone closed the door specifically for cover/to hide the aspect is there regardless of who closed it.

        The other way around (firing through the door out of the bathroom to the bedroom would likely be more of an attempt to keep people away or something. It used to be a block or maneuver. Now though umm create obstacle/advantage? Could you use the door as a defensive/offensive tool in a fighting attack? Sure kicking the door un the face of the guy walking out of the kitchen would probably be might, a bathroom door being shoved maybe fighting  ir however it felt right.if the difficulty to assess the fact that the bar might aid in your defense us so stupidly low, I would either give it as a supplemental action or require a fate point as felt right.

        From: Brett Bowen
        Sent: ‎1/‎6/‎2013 1:07 AM
        To: FateRPG@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [FateRPG] Zones

         

        Thanks all, lots of good examples.

        So, how do you deal with logical spacial limitations?  There's only so much room in the bathroom or behind the bar.  Is that a scene aspect on the room that compels people from overcrowding?

        Also, how do you deal with attacks over the zone borders?  It could be possible to make a fighting attack through a door from the bedroom into the bathroom, or across the bar.

        The bar brings up another issue.  If you take cover behind the bar, you create an advantage.  But then you can only gain a benefit from that advantage with the use of fate points (or free invokes)?  Or would that be setting up an obstacle that has to be beaten with an overcome action?

      • Jonathan Lang
        I m thinking that if you re not sure if a given action should be possible, pass the buck: treat it as a compel of an aspect that might prevent the action, and
        Message 3 of 11 , Jan 6, 2013
          I'm thinking that if you're not sure if a given action should be possible, pass the buck: treat it as a compel of an aspect that might prevent the action, and see if the guy who wants to do the action accepts the fate point or spends one of his own to act anyway.  In the latter case, anyone who wants to interfere with the action has enough justification to invoke that aspect to increase the opposition.  If you don't think the aspect would _prevent_ the action, but might interfere with it, skip the bit about compelling it and go straight to invoking it for opposition.  

          Finally, moving into a crowded zone would be an Overcome action, with the opposition being set to reflect exactly how crowded it is.  Note that this is more likely to be an issue in public places such as trains or high-traffic intersections than "fitting into the bathroom/behind the bar".  

          The other way around (firing through the door out of the bathroom to the bedroom would likely be more of an attempt to keep people away or something. It used to be a block or maneuver. Now though umm create obstacle/advantage? Could you use the door as a defensive/offensive tool in a fighting attack?

          Where's the bit about tools in Fate Core again?  I ask because I don't recall such a rule, but it feels like it would be an exceptionally useful one: so useful, in fact, that it might downplay the significance of invokes: if you can get, say, a +2 bonus for using the bathroom door as a weapon or shield as a tool bonus (i.e., without engaging the Fate Point economy), then when _would_ you invoke for a bonus?  (Possible answer, as I see it: to add another +2 to the bonus on top of that, or to get a bonus that's debatable.)

          This would be fine with me, as I prefer a play-style where the use of Fate Points tends to denote exceptional circumstances and/or dramatic developments, rather than being the default way of doing things: that is, you should never be _forced_ to turn to the Fate Point economy to make something happen; but it should always be there as an option to enhance the scenario.  That, or they get used to settle disputes: the aforementioned compel is an example of using the Fate Point economy to push a decision off onto a player; and if he's willing to spend a Fate Point for a bonus, that means I should probably let him have said bonus.  

        • sk1mble
          ... much ... room ... I think the narrative trumps the rules in this case. If the group decides the story says too many people are in the bathroom then the
          Message 4 of 11 , Jan 8, 2013
            --- In FateRPG@yahoogroups.com, Brett Bowen wrote:
            >
            > Thanks all, lots of good examples.
            >
            > So, how do you deal with logical spacial limitations? There's only so
            much
            > room in the bathroom or behind the bar. Is that a scene aspect on the
            room
            > that compels people from overcrowding?

            I think the narrative trumps the rules in this case. If the group
            decides the story says too many people are in the bathroom then the
            group can decide that another person logically can't fit inside, fit
            them inside with an interesting justification ("Wait, what if Jenny
            folds herself up in the bathtub? There'd be room for one more, then...")
            and/or apply a scene aspect like "Overcrowded" that can be invoked to
            make things difficult. As Dataweaver said you can also call for an
            Overcome roll for someone to squish into an overcrowded area, possibly
            against active opposition if those already in the area are trying to
            keep them out.

            > Also, how do you deal with attacks over the zone borders? It could be
            > possible to make a fighting attack through a door from the bedroom
            into the
            > bathroom, or across the bar.

            The narrative can be your guide again. While the rules say it takes a
            ranged attack to attack a separate zone this is something of an edge
            case, an interstitial zone if you like. It's perfectly logical that if
            someone's said he's by the door that you can punch him from by the door
            in the connecting zone. The rules are _always_ secondary to the
            narrative.

            > The bar brings up another issue. If you take cover behind the bar,
            you
            > create an advantage. But then you can only gain a benefit from that
            > advantage with the use of fate points (or free invokes)? Or would
            that be
            > setting up an obstacle that has to be beaten with an overcome action?

            At the group's discretion being hidden behind the bar might apply
            passive resistance to attacks made against you or simply invalidate you
            as a target from certain positions. You can invoke your cover behind the
            bar to enhance your defence when someone attacks you, or you could use a
            create advantage action to dive behind the bar and leverage it as cover
            later, gaining free invocations. As always with Fate there are a variety
            of ways you can tackle this mechanically and the decision of which to
            use should depend on what's the most interesting at the time.
          • GalacticCmdr
            I really want to try it this way - it seems to flow narratively. It just feels strange with movement and weapons. Chip ... I really want to try it this way -
            Message 5 of 11 , Jan 8, 2013

              I really want to try it this way - it seems to flow narratively. It just feels strange with movement and weapons.

              Chip

              On Jan 5, 2013 11:13 PM, "Jonathan Lang" <dataweaver@...> wrote:
               

              As I see it, Zones are best defined by landmarks rather than by distances: in the closet, under the bed, beside the window, and so on.  The only time that becomes problematic is when the landscape is boring — err, barren.  This should only occur if a character has deliberately arranged for such a scene in order to deny his opponent the opportunity to use the landscape to his advantage.  In this case, the _characters_ become the landmarks: "near Joe", "between Stan and Fred", "far from that guy with a chainsaw", and so on.


            • Sam D
              That s an interesting take on it. It would seem that a Maneuver could then create a Zone instead of an Aspect if you wanted to for some reason, or maybe it s
              Message 6 of 11 , Jan 9, 2013
                That's an interesting take on it. It would seem that a Maneuver could then create a Zone instead of an Aspect if you wanted to for some reason, or maybe it's just that it blurs the line between a Zone and an Aspect a little.

                --- In FateRPG@yahoogroups.com, Jonathan Lang wrote:
                >
                > As I see it, Zones are best defined by landmarks rather than by distances: in the closet, under the bed, beside the window, and so on. The only time that becomes problematic is when the landscape is boring â€" err, barren. This should only occur if a character has deliberately arranged for such a scene in order to deny his opponent the opportunity to use the landscape to his advantage. In this case, the _characters_ become the landmarks: "near Joe", "between Stan and Fred", "far from that guy with a chainsaw", and so on.
                >
                >
                > >
                >
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