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Fate Core in a Nutshell Draft!

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  • Brett Ritter
    The challenge went out and now it s been answered (at least once). I ve uploaded it to the Yahoo group (default folder). It s probably terribly inaccurate as
    Message 1 of 14 , Dec 10, 2012
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      The challenge went out and now it's been answered (at least once).

      I've uploaded it to the Yahoo group (default folder).  It's probably terribly inaccurate as I was typing from memory, but it's a start we can comment on and improve from.

      I'll try to link it here, but I'm not necessarily strong on linking through yahoogroups:

      http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/sKHGUNaSOsMgW-4WsUD0tkng5ExBJ9RdU6v1-3Z0VrgzIc_NiKAoh_0tqPjVJoj2YmJCOeolwycdoa7CD5NTkvKTssxMDPpNG7vHnQ/FateCoreNutshell.pdf

      --
      Brett Ritter / SwiftOne
      swiftone@...
    • Jonathan Lang
      Some points of order: First: • To Create an Advantage [i.e. discover or create Aspect] (roll vs the difficulty) should be: • To Create an Advantage
      Message 2 of 14 , Dec 10, 2012
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        Some points of order:

        First:

        "• To Create an Advantage [i.e. discover or create Aspect] (roll vs the difficulty)"

        should be:

        "• To Create an Advantage [e.g. discover or create Aspect] (roll vs the difficulty)"

        Reason: sometimes, creating an advantage involves taking advantage of an existing Aspect; other times, the advantage may not be represented by an Aspect at all.

        Next:

        "When an Aspect can be used to describe why you should do better on a roll than you did, you can spend a Fate Point to invoke that aspect and get either a +2 to the roll or a re-roll, your choice (after rolling).  You can use an Aspect from the Scene or that an opponent has in the same way, so long as it's applicable and known/obvious."

        There's no mention of invoking to force someone to spend an action to overcome a Fair (+2) obstacle.  

        Next:

        "You don't have to accept compels, but when you do you again receive the Fate Point(s) being spent."

        There's no mention of being required to spend a Fate Point to refuse a compel.

        Finally:

        "You can Concede a conflict by voluntarily losing (before dice are rolled).  You lose, but get some say in what happens, avoiding the worst of the results.  (e.g. “I'm knocked unconscious and left for dead, but not actually dead.  I don't know what they did with the Neutrino Capacitor or Dr. Leviathan, but I intend to find out!”) In addition, you receive 1 Fate Point for Conceding, plus 1 for each consequence you took in that conflict, giving you a chance to do better in the next conflict."

        This reads like you only get the Fate points for each consequence if you concede, but not if you are taken out (or if you win, for that matter).  How can it be more clearly phrased?  
      • Brett Ritter
        ... Hmm...my reading implies that it s always an Aspect (or a Boost, which is really a weak Aspect). What am I missing? ... True! I couldn t come up with any
        Message 3 of 14 , Dec 10, 2012
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          On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 8:45 PM, Jonathan Lang <dataweaver@...> wrote:
          Reason: sometimes, creating an advantage involves taking advantage of an existing Aspect; other times, the advantage may not be represented by an Aspect at all.

          Hmm...my reading implies that it's always an Aspect (or a Boost, which is really a weak Aspect).  What am I missing?
           
          "When an Aspect can be used to describe why you should do better on a roll than you did, you can spend a Fate Point to invoke that aspect and get either a +2 to the roll or a re-roll, your choice (after rolling).  You can use an Aspect from the Scene or that an opponent has in the same way, so long as it's applicable and known/obvious."

          There's no mention of invoking to force someone to spend an action to overcome a Fair (+2) obstacle.  

          True!  I couldn't come up with any way to say that that didn't blow out the 2 page count or leave the reader confused.  I'm open to suggestions.

          "You don't have to accept compels, but when you do you again receive the Fate Point(s) being spent."

          There's no mention of being required to spend a Fate Point to refuse a compel.

          True, I'll fix that.
           
          "You can Concede a conflict by voluntarily losing (before dice are rolled).  You lose, but get some say in what happens, avoiding the worst of the results.  (e.g. “I'm knocked unconscious and left for dead, but not actually dead.  I don't know what they did with the Neutrino Capacitor or Dr. Leviathan, but I intend to find out!”) In addition, you receive 1 Fate Point for Conceding, plus 1 for each consequence you took in that conflict, giving you a chance to do better in the next conflict."

          This reads like you only get the Fate points for each consequence if you concede, but not if you are taken out (or if you win, for that matter).  How can it be more clearly phrased?  

          um...Isn't that how it works?  You don't get the extra Fate points in the other situations...right?

          --
          Brett Ritter / SwiftOne
          swiftone@...
        • afategm
          For the phone/tablet folks, http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/FateRPG/files/ then pick the farecorenutshell.pdf from the list:). Going from my quick
          Message 4 of 14 , Dec 10, 2012
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            For the phone/tablet folks, http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/FateRPG/files/ then pick the farecorenutshell.pdf from the list:). Going from my quick reading, it looks pretty cool :)
            --- In FateRPG@yahoogroups.com, Brett Ritter <swiftone@...> wrote:
            >
            > The challenge went out and now it's been answered (at least once).
            >
            > I've uploaded it to the Yahoo group (default folder). It's probably
            > terribly inaccurate as I was typing from memory, but it's a start we can
            > comment on and improve from.
            >
            > I'll try to link it here, but I'm not necessarily strong on linking through
            > yahoogroups:
            >
            > http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/sKHGUNaSOsMgW-4WsUD0tkng5ExBJ9RdU6v1-3Z0VrgzIc_NiKAoh_0tqPjVJoj2YmJCOeolwycdoa7CD5NTkvKTssxMDPpNG7vHnQ/FateCoreNutshell.pdf
            >
            > --
            > Brett Ritter / SwiftOne
            > swiftone@...
            >
          • Jonathan Lang
            ... You re right about always an Aspect , for now at least. Hopefully that will be corrected in the next draft (because not everything in a scene is an
            Message 5 of 14 , Dec 10, 2012
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              On Dec 10, 2012, at 8:55 PM, Brett Ritter <swiftone@...> wrote:

               

              On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 8:45 PM, Jonathan Lang <dataweaver@...> wrote:
              Reason: sometimes, creating an advantage involves taking advantage of an existing Aspect; other times, the advantage may not be represented by an Aspect at all.

              Hmm...my reading implies that it's always an Aspect (or a Boost, which is really a weak Aspect).  What am I missing?

              You're right about "always an Aspect", for now at least.  Hopefully that will be corrected in the next draft (because not everything in a scene is an Aspect).  However, my other point holds: the Nutshell speaks exclusively of creating Aspects; Fate Core speaks about creating or taking advantage of them.  So my recommendation stands: e.g. instead of i.e.  

               
              "When an Aspect can be used to describe why you should do better on a roll than you did, you can spend a Fate Point to invoke that aspect and get either a +2 to the roll or a re-roll, your choice (after rolling).  You can use an Aspect from the Scene or that an opponent has in the same way, so long as it's applicable and known/obvious."

              There's no mention of invoking to force someone to spend an action to overcome a Fair (+2) obstacle.  

              True!  I couldn't come up with any way to say that that didn't blow out the 2 page count or leave the reader confused.  I'm open to suggestions.

              "When an Aspect can be used to describe why you should do better on a roll than you did, you can spend a Fate Point to invoke that aspect and get either a +2 to the roll or a re-roll, your choice (after rolling), or force someone to take an action to overcome a Fair (+2) obstacle.  You can use an Aspect from the Scene or that an opponent has in the same way, so long as it's applicable and known/obvious."

              That's about as brief as you're going to get.  

              "You can Concede a conflict by voluntarily losing (before dice are rolled).  You lose, but get some say in what happens, avoiding the worst of the results.  (e.g. “I'm knocked unconscious and left for dead, but not actually dead.  I don't know what they did with the Neutrino Capacitor or Dr. Leviathan, but I intend to find out!”) In addition, you receive 1 Fate Point for Conceding, plus 1 for each consequence you took in that conflict, giving you a chance to do better in the next conflict."

              This reads like you only get the Fate points for each consequence if you concede, but not if you are taken out (or if you win, for that matter).  How can it be more clearly phrased?  

              um...Isn't that how it works?  You don't get the extra Fate points in the other situations...right?

              Possibly.  If so, it might be deserving of errata: as it read right now, the more consequences you take, the more of an incentive you have to concede the conflict rather than to win it: you're already stuck with the consequences; but if you concede, you'll at least get fate points for them. 

              I can see biasing things so that "concede" becomes ever more attractive than "taken out" by forcing you to forgo the fate points that you would have earned for your consequences; but taking three consequences, winning, and getting _no_ fate points?  Talk about a pyrrhic victory...
            • Brett Ritter
              ... It speaks of taking advantage, but the mechanic only creates or discovers aspects. If I m taking advantage of an existing, discovered aspect, the skill
              Message 6 of 14 , Dec 10, 2012
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                On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 9:41 PM, Jonathan Lang <dataweaver@...> wrote:
                You're right about "always an Aspect", for now at least.  Hopefully that will be corrected in the next draft (because not everything in a scene is an Aspect).  However, my other point holds: the Nutshell speaks exclusively of creating Aspects; Fate Core speaks about creating or taking advantage of them.  So my recommendation stands: e.g. instead of i.e.  

                It speaks of taking advantage, but the mechanic only creates or discovers aspects.   If I'm taking advantage of an existing, discovered aspect, the skill roll isn't involved, Fate Points are (aside from an Attack or Overcome skill roll)
                Regardless, I definitely don't want e.g. here since the "creating an Advantage" phrase is meaningless by itself, so if you think of better phrasing let me know.
                (That said, I'm curious what mechanic you're thinking of that uses non-aspect scene stuff that'd be involved here)
                "When an Aspect can be used to describe why you should do better on a roll than you did, you can spend a Fate Point to invoke that aspect and get either a +2 to the roll or a re-roll, your choice (after rolling).  You can use an Aspect from the Scene or that an opponent has in the same way, so long as it's applicable and known/obvious."

                "When an Aspect can be used to describe why you should do better on a roll than you did, you can spend a Fate Point to invoke that aspect and get either a +2 to the roll or a re-roll, your choice (after rolling), or force someone to take an action to overcome a Fair (+2) obstacle.  You can use an Aspect from the Scene or that an opponent has in the same way, so long as it's applicable and known/obvious."

                That's about as brief as you're going to get.  

                Yeah, but it invites all the discussion about never letting the NPC have an action, etc.  I'll tinker with it, it's a definite omission.

                Possibly.  If so, it might be deserving of errata: as it read right now, the more consequences you take, the more of an incentive you have to concede the conflict rather than to win it: you're already stuck with the consequences; but if you concede, you'll at least get fate points for them. 

                I think that's the point.  Otherwise no one would ever concede, which limits narrative direction.

                I can see biasing things so that "concede" becomes ever more attractive than "taken out" by forcing you to forgo the fate points that you would have earned for your consequences; but taking three consequences, winning, and getting _no_ fate points?  Talk about a pyrrhic victory...

                Yup.  But the player, by not conceding or even allowing the take out, is indicating that this victory was that important.  

                --
                Brett Ritter / SwiftOne
                swiftone@...
              • vmakkone
                Good job! The contents are about what s needed, but the text blocks could be split into smaller segments, still. I like bullets and table format and tried
                Message 7 of 14 , Dec 10, 2012
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                  Good job!

                  The contents are about what's needed, but the text blocks could be split into smaller segments, still. I like bullets and table format and tried something similar earlier:

                  https://docs.google.com/document/d/15EOiwjXUCMvPxtF4UABsK7B_4pHs2qZBSzY9foygOwM/edit

                  Would this kind of layout be even more readable? Font size needs to be scaled down if this is to fit in a two-page budget, though.


                  --- In FateRPG@yahoogroups.com, Brett Ritter <swiftone@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > The challenge went out and now it's been answered (at least once).
                  >
                  > I've uploaded it to the Yahoo group (default folder). It's probably
                  > terribly inaccurate as I was typing from memory, but it's a start we can
                  > comment on and improve from.
                  >
                  > I'll try to link it here, but I'm not necessarily strong on linking through
                  > yahoogroups:
                  >
                  > http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/sKHGUNaSOsMgW-4WsUD0tkng5ExBJ9RdU6v1-3Z0VrgzIc_NiKAoh_0tqPjVJoj2YmJCOeolwycdoa7CD5NTkvKTssxMDPpNG7vHnQ/FateCoreNutshell.pdf
                  >
                  > --
                  > Brett Ritter / SwiftOne
                  > swiftone@...
                  >
                • vmakkone
                  And then I found this gem floating around in G+ https://www.dropbox.com/s/j23tjs08tjzlcm8/Fate%20Core%20Cheat%20Sheets.pdf
                  Message 8 of 14 , Dec 10, 2012
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                    And then I found this gem floating around in G+

                    https://www.dropbox.com/s/j23tjs08tjzlcm8/Fate%20Core%20Cheat%20Sheets.pdf


                    --- In FateRPG@yahoogroups.com, "vmakkone" <mak@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Good job!
                    >
                    > The contents are about what's needed, but the text blocks could be split into smaller segments, still. I like bullets and table format and tried something similar earlier:
                    >
                    > https://docs.google.com/document/d/15EOiwjXUCMvPxtF4UABsK7B_4pHs2qZBSzY9foygOwM/edit
                    >
                    > Would this kind of layout be even more readable? Font size needs to be scaled down if this is to fit in a two-page budget, though.
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In FateRPG@yahoogroups.com, Brett Ritter <swiftone@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > The challenge went out and now it's been answered (at least once).
                    > >
                    > > I've uploaded it to the Yahoo group (default folder). It's probably
                    > > terribly inaccurate as I was typing from memory, but it's a start we can
                    > > comment on and improve from.
                    > >
                    > > I'll try to link it here, but I'm not necessarily strong on linking through
                    > > yahoogroups:
                    > >
                    > > http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/sKHGUNaSOsMgW-4WsUD0tkng5ExBJ9RdU6v1-3Z0VrgzIc_NiKAoh_0tqPjVJoj2YmJCOeolwycdoa7CD5NTkvKTssxMDPpNG7vHnQ/FateCoreNutshell.pdf
                    > >
                    > > --
                    > > Brett Ritter / SwiftOne
                    > > swiftone@
                    > >
                    >
                  • Antoni Ten
                    While I have not had the chance to read it myself, I trust you guys to get it right. I want to know what licence you attach to it, because I want to translate
                    Message 9 of 14 , Dec 10, 2012
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                      While I have not had the chance to read it myself, I trust you guys to get it right. I want to know what licence you attach to it, because I want to translate it into Spanish, for my own game. I will need to add the bits for Wild Blue gifts, because that is the setting I am going to use though.

                    • Brett Ritter
                      ... Assuming it refers to the nutshell - this is just a fan document (apparently one of several!), and while the (scant) text is original* I d recommend
                      Message 10 of 14 , Dec 10, 2012
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                        On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 11:06 PM, Antoni Ten <kuroshima@...> wrote:
                        While I have not had the chance to read it myself, I trust you guys to get it right. I want to know what licence you attach to it, because I want to translate it into Spanish, for my own game. I will need to add the bits for Wild Blue gifts, because that is the setting I am going to use though.

                        Assuming "it" refers to the nutshell - this is just a fan document (apparently one of several!), and while the (scant) text is original* I'd recommend waiting until Fate Core itself is released, at which point I'll use whatever CC license they're using and you can go from there.  (and if anyone wants to hack any part of the text in any other way that doesn't involve annoying Evil Hat, there will be no complaint from me)

                        While Fate Core is pretty darn awesome, it's only fair to make sure they get a chance to finish any polish, not to mention allowing them full sales of the Kickstarter.   Fred was kind enough to "go-ahead" the nutshell on the list, but I don't want anyone at Evil Hat to regret their cooperation :)

                        *The capable, proactive characters part was a direct quote though.
                        --
                        Brett Ritter / SwiftOne
                        swiftone@...
                      • Antoni Ten
                        ... (apparently one of several!), and while the (scant) text is original* I d recommend waiting until Fate Core itself is released, at which point I ll use
                        Message 11 of 14 , Dec 10, 2012
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                          On 11 Dec 2012 08:22, "Brett Ritter" <swiftone@...> wrote:
                          > Assuming "it" refers to the nutshell - this is just a fan document (apparently one of several!), and while the (scant) text is original* I'd recommend waiting until Fate Core itself is released, at which point I'll use whatever CC license they're using and you can go from there.  (and if anyone wants to hack any part of the text in any other way that doesn't involve annoying Evil Hat, there will be no complaint from me)
                          >
                          > While Fate Core is pretty darn awesome, it's only fair to make sure they get a chance to finish any polish, not to mention allowing them full sales of the Kickstarter.   Fred was kind enough to "go-ahead" the nutshell on the list, but I don't want anyone at Evil Hat to regret their cooperation :)
                          >
                          > *The capable, proactive characters part was a direct quote though.

                          Obviously I was referring to the nutshell document. I am going to wait until FATE Core is officially out to distribute my translation, out of respect for Evil Hat. However knowing what licence you plan to use is always a reassurance.

                        • John Rudd
                          Has this been updated to reflect changes in the final draft of Fate Core?
                          Message 12 of 14 , Jul 20, 2013
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                            Has this been updated to reflect changes in the final draft of Fate Core?


                            On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 7:44 PM, Brett Ritter <swiftone@...> wrote:
                             

                            The challenge went out and now it's been answered (at least once).

                            I've uploaded it to the Yahoo group (default folder).  It's probably terribly inaccurate as I was typing from memory, but it's a start we can comment on and improve from.

                            I'll try to link it here, but I'm not necessarily strong on linking through yahoogroups:

                            http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/sKHGUNaSOsMgW-4WsUD0tkng5ExBJ9RdU6v1-3Z0VrgzIc_NiKAoh_0tqPjVJoj2YmJCOeolwycdoa7CD5NTkvKTssxMDPpNG7vHnQ/FateCoreNutshell.pdf

                            --
                            Brett Ritter / SwiftOne
                            swiftone@...


                          • Brett Ritter
                            ... No - I ll see if I can snag some time this weekend to do that. -- Brett Ritter / SwiftOne swiftone@swiftone.org
                            Message 13 of 14 , Jul 20, 2013
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                              On Sat, Jul 20, 2013 at 12:17 AM, John Rudd <johnkzin@...> wrote:
                              > Has this been updated to reflect changes in the final draft of Fate Core?

                              No - I'll see if I can snag some time this weekend to do that.

                              --
                              Brett Ritter / SwiftOne
                              swiftone@...
                            • C
                              Cool. Just a heads up, every Fate Core cheat sheet seems to avoid breaking down what Fate points can be spent on and how players can earn them. i.e. Most cheat
                              Message 14 of 14 , Jul 20, 2013
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                                Cool. Just a heads up, every Fate Core cheat sheet seems to avoid breaking down what Fate points can be spent on and how players can earn them.

                                i.e. Most cheat sheets get into the four type of Outcomes and manipulating Aspects

                                --- In FateRPG@yahoogroups.com, Brett Ritter <swiftone@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > On Sat, Jul 20, 2013 at 12:17 AM, John Rudd <johnkzin@...> wrote:
                                > > Has this been updated to reflect changes in the final draft of Fate Core?
                                >
                                > No - I'll see if I can snag some time this weekend to do that.
                                >
                                > --
                                > Brett Ritter / SwiftOne
                                > swiftone@...
                                >
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