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Is this a block?

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  • lon@therabbitwarren.org
    Something came up while I was working on a Fate implementation. How do you set up a lasting block? Let s say my character is a bodyguard, and somebody s
    Message 1 of 11 , Aug 1, 2011
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      Something came up while I was working on a Fate implementation.  How do you set up a lasting block?

       

      Let’s say my character is a bodyguard, and somebody’s shooting at my client.  I can jump in front of the client and shield him with my body, which would be a block that makes it harder for the gunman to shoot the client (but, sadly, no harder to shoot me…).  This only lasts as long as I stand there, blocking, though.  If I try to, say, shoot back, I’m at least facing some kind of combined action penalty, right?

       

      But what if I push a dumpster in between my client and the gunman.  I can see using this as a block action, but if I have my character do anything else, the block goes away, right?  Which seems kind of odd, in-story, unless we assume that the dumpster is shot to pieces when I stop maintaining the block.

       

      So how do I set up a lasting block?

       

      Or, another example.  There’s a trail in the woods, and I’m being perused.  So I use an evocation to zap a tree down, blocking the path.  Is that a blocking action?  Have I just split one map zone (the path) into two?   How do I determine the boundary rating for the felled tree?

       

      These are probably some other kind of action, and not a block at all.  This will be painfully obvious when someone points it out.

       

      At first I thought about doing this as a maneuver, placing the aspect “blocked by fallen tree” on the path.  But then I have to pay a Fate Point for every pursuer after the first (free tag) who tries to get over it to come after me?  This seems even less reasonable applied to the dumpster.

       

      Thanks.

       

      Lon

    • Travis Casey
      ... One possibility would be to borrow from the Dresden Files rules for magical blocks. That gives two options: #1 - You can choose to make your block count
      Message 2 of 11 , Aug 1, 2011
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        On Aug 1, 2011, at 8:06 PM, lon@... wrote:

         

        Something came up while I was working on a Fate implementation.  How do you set up a lasting block?

         

        One possibility would be to borrow from the Dresden Files rules for magical blocks.  That gives two options:

        #1 - You can choose to make your block count as armor instead of a block.  This costs two shifts per point of armor given, but the armor given lasts for the rest of the scene.

        #2 - You can make a block that will last for multiple exchanges by trading a shift of effect for an exchange of duration.

        Those are "official" rules for at least one variant of FATE, so if that matters to your group, it may help you get them into use.

        --
        Travis Casey
        Reality is vastly overrated.



      • Max Kaehn
        I would rule you re creating a boundary, with rating related to the skill check that created it, such as the Might check used to move the dumpster. -- Max
        Message 3 of 11 , Aug 1, 2011
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          I would rule you're creating a boundary, with rating related to the skill check that created it, such as the Might check used to move the dumpster.
          --
          Max Kaehn
          slothman@...
          IN THE SEEN, THERE IS ONLY THE SEEN. IN THE SMASH, THERE IS ONLY THE SMASH.” — BuddhistHulk

        • Sam D
          I had something similar happen in one of my games. A couple of NPCs knocked over a table and hid behind it as a maneuver that created the sticky aspect Behind
          Message 4 of 11 , Aug 1, 2011
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            I had something similar happen in one of my games.

            A couple of NPCs knocked over a table and hid behind it as a maneuver that created the sticky aspect "Behind the Table". After a couple of rounds exchanging shots. One of the players ran up and used the sticky aspect to pin the remaining NPC against the wall. He then tagged an aspect to make sure that the NPC dropped from getting shot in the head.

            All in all, it was a very satisfying exchange for the players since it was their introduction to Fate.
          • Frank Eastman
            Yea, I d simply say the block maintains round to round unless he wants to make it sticky by paying shifts-for-sticky. If we re running a CHASE, with the
            Message 5 of 11 , Aug 2, 2011
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              Yea, I'd simply say the block maintains round to round unless he wants to make it sticky by paying shifts-for-sticky.  

              If we're running a CHASE, with the wizard-of-the-woods example, I'm usually rolling Group-vs-Group rolls, so the maneuver I'd suggest there, if the opposing force is rolling as one team.

              If it were the START of a chase, the wizard is trying to get away, I'd say that the maneuver creates the opportunity for changing the type of scene.

              If he wants to create a new zone border I'd suggest X shifts for effect and then 3 shifts for it to just last the rest of the round (for the difficulty in blowing over a tree and getting it to land right where you want).

              For the bodyguard, I'd say it's a maintain round to round.  With the dumpster I'd say you could do it a few ways ... set up a block and put some shifts into duration, make a maneuver and put a sticky aspect of Blocking Dumpster on the SCENE (good for a free tag, I often allow invocations against such to say "They can't shoot us behind this dumpster", but it's then burning through FATE points rapidly and they can spend actions to do other things than shoot.  Good for a moment or two of respite to think of another plan, but narratively you always get outflanked eventually), or a standard round-to-round block (suggesting that when the block ends he's stepped out to do whatever it is he's going to do).

              --fje



              On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 9:17 PM, Sam D <fantomx11@...> wrote:
               

              I had something similar happen in one of my games.

              A couple of NPCs knocked over a table and hid behind it as a maneuver that created the sticky aspect "Behind the Table". After a couple of rounds exchanging shots. One of the players ran up and used the sticky aspect to pin the remaining NPC against the wall. He then tagged an aspect to make sure that the NPC dropped from getting shot in the head.

              All in all, it was a very satisfying exchange for the players since it was their introduction to Fate.


            • Lisa Steele
              Another option may be narrative logic - with the target in the dumpster, the bad guys focus on the bodyguard for a couple of rounds. Then a bad guy flanks, GM
              Message 6 of 11 , Aug 2, 2011
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                Another option may be narrative logic – with the target in the dumpster, the bad guys focus on the bodyguard for a couple of rounds. Then a bad guy flanks, GM offers the PC a fate point (presumably bodyguard has an aspect related to protecting clients) for having to rush to the client’s defense and interpose himself again. This way, the PC isn’t necessarily run out of FP while also being unable to act to maintain the block.

                 

                For the chase – I’d be willing to apply some narrative logic – if the PC in a rooftop chase declares, say, a narrow board over a gap between two tenements and then takes a maneuver after crossing to kick away the board, I’ll call it a sticky block. Doesn’t mean, however, that the chasers don’t have a buddy or two on the ground who can pick up the chase a round or two later.

                 


                From: FateRPG@yahoogroups.com [mailto: FateRPG@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Frank Eastman
                Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2011 10:54 AM
                To: FateRPG@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [FateRPG] Re: Is this a block?

                 



                Yea, I'd simply say the block maintains round to round unless he wants to make it sticky by paying shifts-for-sticky.  

                 

                If we're running a CHASE, with the wizard-of-the-woods example, I'm usually rolling Group-vs-Group rolls, so the maneuver I'd suggest there, if the opposing force is rolling as one team.

                If it were the START of a chase, the wizard is trying to get away, I'd say that the maneuver creates the opportunity for changing the type of scene.

                 

                If he wants to create a new zone border I'd suggest X shifts for effect and then 3 shifts for it to just last the rest of the round (for the difficulty in blowing over a tree and getting it to land right where you want).

                 

                For the bodyguard, I'd say it's a maintain round to round.  With the dumpster I'd say you could do it a few ways ... set up a block and put some shifts into duration, make a maneuver and put a sticky aspect of Blocking Dumpster on the SCENE (good for a free tag, I often allow invocations against such to say "They can't shoot us behind this dumpster", but it's then burning through FATE points rapidly and they can spend actions to do other things than shoot.  Good for a moment or two of respite to think of another plan, but narratively you always get outflanked eventually), or a standard round-to-round block (suggesting that when the block ends he's stepped out to do whatever it is he's going to do).

                 

                --fje

                 

                 

                On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 9:17 PM, Sam D <fantomx11@...> wrote:

                 

                I had something similar happen in one of my games.

                A couple of NPCs knocked over a table and hid behind it as a maneuver that created the sticky aspect "Behind the Table". After a couple of rounds exchanging shots. One of the players ran up and used the sticky aspect to pin the remaining NPC against the wall. He then tagged an aspect to make sure that the NPC dropped from getting shot in the head.

                All in all, it was a very satisfying exchange for the players since it was their introduction to Fate.

                 


              • Marshall Smith
                For the dumpster block, I might also allow the client to take over maintaining the block, as long as he s continuing to hide behind it. Also keep in mind that
                Message 7 of 11 , Aug 2, 2011
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                  For the dumpster block, I might also allow the client to take over maintaining the block, as long as he's continuing to hide behind it.

                  Also keep in mind that you can stretch time.  If the bodyguard and the client both hunker down behind the dumpster, you can have a couple minutes of fruitless gunfire and cursing from the attackers go by in a single "round".  This can be an especially useful tactic if the point is to just hold off until either the cavalry arrives or the cops scatter the gunmen.

                • Bill Hamilton
                  ... you can also play it as a maneuver, then use the free tag to compel the gunmen to not attack the client until they gave dealt with your character. -Bill
                  Message 8 of 11 , Aug 2, 2011
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                    On Aug 2, 2011, at 10:10 AM, "Lisa Steele" <steelelaw@...> wrote:

                    Another option may be narrative logic – with the target in the dumpster, the bad guys focus on the bodyguard for a couple of rounds. Then a bad guy flanks, GM offers the PC a fate point (presumably bodyguard has an aspect related to protecting clients) for having to rush to the client’s defense and interpose himself again. This way, the PC isn’t necessarily run out of FP while also being unable to act to maintain the block.


                    you can also play it as a maneuver, then use the free tag to compel the gunmen to not attack the client until they gave dealt with your character. 

                    -Bill Hamilton
                  • Daniel Ross
                    Hey, now THAT S a good point. Abstract as FATE exchanges are, it had never occurred to me to change the concrete length of one as a deliberate effect you might
                    Message 9 of 11 , Aug 2, 2011
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                      Hey, now THAT'S a good point. Abstract as FATE exchanges are, it had never occurred to me to change the concrete length of one as a deliberate effect you might maneuver for. I'll have to keep that in mind in the future!

                      On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 9:17 AM, Marshall Smith <samldanach@...> wrote:
                       

                      For the dumpster block, I might also allow the client to take over maintaining the block, as long as he's continuing to hide behind it.

                      Also keep in mind that you can stretch time.  If the bodyguard and the client both hunker down behind the dumpster, you can have a couple minutes of fruitless gunfire and cursing from the attackers go by in a single "round".  This can be an especially useful tactic if the point is to just hold off until either the cavalry arrives or the cops scatter the gunmen.


                    • lorddraqo
                      You can choose to grapple the shooter, as your blocking action. Now your character and the shooter are contesting for control of the gun, and he is prevented
                      Message 10 of 11 , Aug 2, 2011
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                        You can choose to grapple the shooter, as your blocking action. Now your character and the shooter are contesting for control of the gun, and he is prevented from shooting your client. Just being creative is a large part of setting up a Block.

                        --- In FateRPG@yahoogroups.com, "lon@..." <lon@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Something came up while I was working on a Fate implementation. How do you set up a lasting block?
                        >
                        > Let's say my character is a bodyguard, and somebody's shooting at my client. I can jump in front of the client and shield him with my body, which would be a block that makes it harder for the gunman to shoot the client (but, sadly, no harder to shoot me...). This only lasts as long as I stand there, blocking, though. If I try to, say, shoot back, I'm at least facing some kind of combined action penalty, right?
                        >
                        > But what if I push a dumpster in between my client and the gunman. I can see using this as a block action, but if I have my character do anything else, the block goes away, right? Which seems kind of odd, in-story, unless we assume that the dumpster is shot to pieces when I stop maintaining the block.
                        >
                        > So how do I set up a lasting block?
                        >
                        > Or, another example. There's a trail in the woods, and I'm being perused. So I use an evocation to zap a tree down, blocking the path. Is that a blocking action? Have I just split one map zone (the path) into two? How do I determine the boundary rating for the felled tree?
                        >
                        > These are probably some other kind of action, and not a block at all. This will be painfully obvious when someone points it out.
                        >
                        > At first I thought about doing this as a maneuver, placing the aspect "blocked by fallen tree" on the path. But then I have to pay a Fate Point for every pursuer after the first (free tag) who tries to get over it to come after me? This seems even less reasonable applied to the dumpster.
                        >
                        > Thanks.
                        >
                        > Lon
                        >
                      • Thorin
                        Yep, just remember that extra points of success can be used to increase/decrease the time of the action that the PC is trying to take by one time increment per
                        Message 11 of 11 , Aug 2, 2011
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                          Yep, just remember that extra points of success can be used to increase/decrease the time of the action that the PC is trying to take by one time increment per shift (YS 214 Overflow, 312 Extra Shifts & 315 Time Chart)

                          We use this for some conflict blocks & manoeuvres and of course for non-conflict actions -- but only if it fits with what's going on in the scene.

                          YMMV... but we do get good use out of it :)
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