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Re: [FateRPG] Is Fate without fudge dice still Fate?

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  • Aidan Grey
    Google Fate Fractal , and you ll learn about it. But basically, the idea is that every part of the game world is treated as a character. The universe you play
    Message 1 of 26 , May 3, 2011
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      Google "Fate Fractal", and you'll learn about it. But basically, the idea is that every part of the game world is treated as a character. The universe you play in is a character, with character/world with character/nations with character/characters. Zoom in or out, it's all characters.

      On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 6:48 PM, Marcus Orealias <evileeyore@...> wrote:
       

      On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 3:58 PM, Fred Hicks <evilhat@...> wrote:
       
      For me, probably: aspects, "skills not attributes", the fate point
      economy, the fractal, and at least the vestiges of fudge
      adjective-number pairing. No particular order.
       
      "the fractal"
       
      The what now?
       
       

    • Fred Hicks
      I believe we covered it on FateRPG.com. Check out the site. :) Fred ... -- Fred Hicks Co-President, Evil Hat Productions, LLC - www.evilhat.com Art Director,
      Message 2 of 26 , May 3, 2011
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        I believe we covered it on FateRPG.com. Check out the site. :)

        Fred

        On Tuesday, May 3, 2011, Aidan Grey <taalenmaple@...> wrote:

        > Google "Fate Fractal", and you'll learn about it. But basically, the idea is that every part of the game world is treated as a character. The universe you play in is a character, with character/world with character/nations with character/characters. Zoom in or out, it's all characters.
        >
        > On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 6:48 PM, Marcus Orealias <evileeyore@...> wrote:

        > On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 3:58 PM, Fred Hicks <evilhat@...> wrote:

        >
        > For me, probably: aspects, "skills not attributes", the fate point
        > economy, the fractal, and at least the vestiges of fudge
        > adjective-number pairing. No particular order.
        >
        >
        > "the fractal"
        >
        > The what now?
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >

        --
        Fred Hicks
        Co-President, Evil Hat Productions, LLC - www.evilhat.com
        Art Director, Hero Games - www.herogames.com
      • G C
        You add 7 to fixed difficulties. ________________________________ From: jmoxx75 To: FateRPG@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, May 3, 2011 11:54:32
        Message 3 of 26 , May 3, 2011
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          You add 7 to fixed difficulties.


          From: jmoxx75 <JMOxx75@...>
          To: FateRPG@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Tue, May 3, 2011 11:54:32 AM
          Subject: [FateRPG] Re: Is Fate without fudge dice still Fate?

           

          Is 2d6 add, rolling 2d6 + skill rating and the higher roll wins? If so do you add the 2d6 to a fixed difficult as well?

          --- In FateRPG@yahoogroups.com, "Dan" <danielcansell@...> wrote:
          >
          > Gotta say I sure hope so, my table has been playing with 2d6 and add for
          > most of two years now :)
          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: "Ryan Macklin" <ryanmacklin@...>
          > To: <FateRPG@yahoogroups.com>
          > Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2011 11:55 AM
          > Subject: Re: [FateRPG] Is Fate without fudge dice still Fate?
          >
          >
          > Yup! I believe that at one point Fred & Rob were playing with a 2d6
          > (not d6-d6, but added together) build for their home game.
          >
          > - Ryan
          >
          > --
          > Ryan Macklin
          > Production Manager, Evil Hat Productions
          > blog: http://RyanMacklin.com | @RyanMacklin
          >
          >
          >
          > On Sat, Apr 30, 2011 at 9:11 PM, jmoxx75 <JMOxx75@...> wrote:
          > > I like everything about fate but fudge dice. If a game was made that used
          > > all of the core fate mechanics, the ladder, aspects, skills etc.. but the
          > > dice mechanics were different would it still be fate?
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > ------------------------------------
          > >
          > > | Fate * http://www.faterpg.com/
          > > | SOTC * http://www.evilhat.com/?spirit
          > > | DFRPG * http://www.dresdenfilesrpg.com/Yahoo! Groups Links
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > | Fate * http://www.faterpg.com/
          > | SOTC * http://www.evilhat.com/?spirit
          > | DFRPG * http://www.dresdenfilesrpg.com/Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > -----
          > No virus found in this message.
          > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
          > Version: 10.0.1325 / Virus Database: 1500/3603 - Release Date: 04/28/11
          >

        • Darren Hill
          I’m one of those old-timers who’ve been using Fate since before it was called Fate, and to me, the key elements of fate are: ASPECTS: these nebulous things
          Message 4 of 26 , May 3, 2011
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            I’m one of those old-timers who’ve been using Fate since before it was called Fate, and to me, the key elements of fate are:
             
            ASPECTS: these nebulous things that are defined by the player, and can be used to both invoke for a bonus and be compelled by the GM for a bonus (fate point).  The fate point economy is part of this.
             
            ABILITIES: Stats like strength are not different from skills. If you roll it, it’s a skill; if you don’t roll it, it’s an aspect (or something else, like a stunt or trapping).
             
            STRESS: When you take ‘damage’, it’s not necessarily actually an injury. It was quite a revolution for me over the fudge engine when the first proper version of Fate had a damage track that replaced some of the wounds with things that weren’t wounds (Clipped and Hurt, despite their names, could be near misses that just put you on a temporary disadvantage, and you could define that differently based on whether you were in social or physical conflicts). This led to being able to declare conflicts and objectives as having their own stress track, and you gained progress by landing ‘injuries’ on it. It also led to the concepts of Concessions and Consequences.
             
            FRACTAL: the idea that you can treat things that aren’t characters as characters. I think this arose as much out of the evolving damage system described above, as it did out of using universal abilities to describe the properties of a non-character. Organisations could be given stats of their own, but they also had stress tracks. Ephemeral concepts, like the weather or The Darkness of My Soul can similarly be statted up and defined.
             
            LIMITED RANGE OF RANKS: having a small scale, like the 7-10 rank scale usually used. Descriptive terms for the levels, like Poor, Amazing, etc., is almost a core feature but doesn’t have to be.
             
            The dice system doesn’t need to be fudge dice, but it does need to be a system that works well with a limited range of ranks.
            I have used:
            * fudge dice
            * 2d6 + rank (or d6-d6; functionally identical)
            * 1d10 + rank (for highly variable results)
            * roll 1d6 per rank (with terrible = 0), counting 4-6 or 5-6 as successes
            * Sorcerer/Donjon-style dice rolling, where you roll a number of d10’s based on rank, and compare highest
            * Agon/Savage Worlds/Chronica Feudalis polynomial Dice, where the dice size (d4, d6, d8, etc) is set by your rank
             
            All of these gave results that felt pretty fate-like.
             
            EXTRAS: Another element that isn’t vital, but goes well with fate is having something that adds a little extra definition to a character, beyond abilities and aspects. Things like skill trappings and special abilities like stunts. Most fate games will have _something_ like this, but different Fate games could approach this in lots of different ways. It’s fertile ground to explore.
             
            Those are the things that most make a game feel like Fate to me, I think.
             
             
             
             
             
          • Diongham
            Fate inspired, is still Fate enough for me. That s not the point though, it showcase a system that doesn t use Fudge Dice, with a little tweaking can be
            Message 5 of 26 , May 5, 2011
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              Fate inspired, is still Fate enough for me.

              That's not the point though, it showcase a system that doesn't use Fudge Dice, with a little tweaking can be applied to standard Fate.

              --- In FateRPG@yahoogroups.com, "Darren Hill" <darren0hill@...> wrote:
              >
              > Yes, but Chronica Feudalis isn’t a fate game. It’s a Fate/Agon or Savage Worlds mash up, with other influences too. Like Icons, it’s one of those games that sometimes gets called a Fate game, but really isn’t. (It’s a very good game still, and worth checking out if you like authentic-seeming medieval fantasy.)
              >
              >
              > From: Diongham
              > Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 10:58 PM
              > To: FateRPG@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: [FateRPG] Re: Is Fate without fudge dice still Fate?
              >
              >
              > Chronica Feudalis has a dice pool system where you take the highest roll as your success.
              >
              > http://jeremykeller.com/2009/04/30/mathematica-chronica/
              >
              > --- In mailto:FateRPG%40yahoogroups.com, "jmoxx75" <JMOxx75@> wrote:
              > >
              > > I like everything about fate but fudge dice. If a game was made that used all of the core fate mechanics, the ladder, aspects, skills etc.. but the dice mechanics were different would it still be fate?
              > >
              >
            • stanshinn
              Darren, I was really intrigued by the various dice systems you have used as I am interesting in trying some of them out myself. Did you (or anyone else on the
              Message 6 of 26 , May 10, 2011
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                Darren, I was really intrigued by the various dice systems you have used as I am interesting in trying some of them out myself.

                Did you (or anyone else on the list) try using the Ace/exploding dice part of Savage Worlds polynomial dice? I really like the open ended dice roll mechanic. I would also think this would speed up combat and get you into consequences more quickly.

                -- Stan

                --- In FateRPG@yahoogroups.com, "Darren Hill" <darren0hill@...> wrote:
                > The dice system doesn’t need to be fudge dice, but it does need to be a system that works well with a limited range of ranks.
                > I have used:
                > * fudge dice
                > * 2d6 + rank (or d6-d6; functionally identical)
                > * 1d10 + rank (for highly variable results)
                > * roll 1d6 per rank (with terrible = 0), counting 4-6 or 5-6 as successes
                > * Sorcerer/Donjon-style dice rolling, where you roll a number of d10’s based on rank, and compare highest
                > * Agon/Savage Worlds/Chronica Feudalis polynomial Dice, where the dice size (d4, d6, d8, etc) is set by your rank
                > All of these gave results that felt pretty fate-like.
              • Marshall Smith
                I would be curious to see how exploding dice would work in FATE. I think that it might twist the system out of shape. The new shape might be very viable and
                Message 7 of 26 , May 10, 2011
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                  I would be curious to see how exploding dice would work in FATE.  I think that it might twist the system out of shape.  The new shape might be very viable and interesting, though.  I would also think that you would almost need to have the dice explode in both directions.  That is, the highest result lets you roll again and add, but rolling a 1 also forces you to roll again and subtract.



                  On Tue, May 10, 2011 at 12:51 PM, stanshinn <stan@...> wrote:
                   

                  Darren, I was really intrigued by the various dice systems you have used as I am interesting in trying some of them out myself.

                  Did you (or anyone else on the list) try using the Ace/exploding dice part of Savage Worlds polynomial dice? I really like the open ended dice roll mechanic. I would also think this would speed up combat and get you into consequences more quickly.

                  -- Stan

                  --- In FateRPG@yahoogroups.com, "Darren Hill" <darren0hill@...> wrote:
                  > The dice system doesn’t need to be fudge dice, but it does need to be a system that works well with a limited range of ranks.
                  > I have used:
                  > * fudge dice
                  > * 2d6 + rank (or d6-d6; functionally identical)
                  > * 1d10 + rank (for highly variable results)
                  > * roll 1d6 per rank (with terrible = 0), counting 4-6 or 5-6 as successes
                  > * Sorcerer/Donjon-style dice rolling, where you roll a number of d10’s based on rank, and compare highest
                  > * Agon/Savage Worlds/Chronica Feudalis polynomial Dice, where the dice size (d4, d6, d8, etc) is set by your rank
                  > All of these gave results that felt pretty fate-like.


                • Eoin Boyle
                  ... @Bending out of shape - not necessarily. Simply limit the reward for the explosion - instant Spin (or an additional Spin), a 1FP recharge, an Advance (if
                  Message 8 of 26 , May 10, 2011
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                    On Tue, May 10, 2011 at 12:01 PM, Marshall Smith <samldanach@...> wrote:
                    > I would be curious to see how exploding dice would work in FATE.  I think that it might twist the system out of shape.  The new shape might be very viable and interesting, though.  I would also think that you would almost need to have the dice explode in both directions.  That is, the highest result lets you roll again and add, but rolling a 1 also forces you to roll again and subtract.<

                    @Bending out of shape - not necessarily. Simply limit the reward for
                    the explosion - instant Spin (or an additional Spin), a 1FP recharge,
                    an Advance (if using that for advancement). Something that could
                    easily happen in play on it's own would be a good candidate for a
                    reqard. However, I'd have the option of which reward is given be the
                    player's.

                    @Roll & Subtract - tried that once. Will not do again. In addition to
                    my usual complaint of "slows the game down," it definitely created
                    more confusion and the table felt like I was negating the player's
                    actions/choices. Just letting the 1 stand was much better received,
                    especially since that was tied to "no, and..." already.

                    @Roll & Add - this is a better fit for games where you're using Role
                    of Cool as part of the character concept - SotC, Dresden, SBA, Awesome
                    Adventures, etc. For something more realistic, I'd not even go
                    anywhere near an exploding mechanic - Diaspora, most notably. However,
                    I'd say that's more of a play-style issue and technique than something
                    to be used as a universal ruling...
                  • Jonathan Cook
                     I thank the fudge dice give fate some charm but they don t have to be used playing in a fate this month we are useing 2d6 The Dark lord of OZ I thank the
                    Message 9 of 26 , May 11, 2011
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                       I thank the fudge dice give fate some charm but they don't have to be used
                      playing in a fate this month we are useing 2d6
                      The Dark lord of OZ
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