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Is Fate without fudge dice still Fate?

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  • jmoxx75
    I like everything about fate but fudge dice. If a game was made that used all of the core fate mechanics, the ladder, aspects, skills etc.. but the dice
    Message 1 of 26 , Apr 30, 2011
      I like everything about fate but fudge dice. If a game was made that used all of the core fate mechanics, the ladder, aspects, skills etc.. but the dice mechanics were different would it still be fate?
    • June Jazz
      Yes, it would. Most Fate variants give an alternative to Fudge dice with 1d6 minus 1d6.
      Message 2 of 26 , May 1, 2011
        Yes, it would. Most Fate variants give an alternative to Fudge dice with 1d6 minus 1d6.

        On Sun, May 1, 2011 at 12:11 AM, jmoxx75 <JMOxx75@...> wrote:
         

        I like everything about fate but fudge dice. If a game was made that used all of the core fate mechanics, the ladder, aspects, skills etc.. but the dice mechanics were different would it still be fate?


      • Marshall Smith
        I m pretty sure that you could even use a totally different die mechanic. There are a few things you d want to keep in mind. First, unless you want to
        Message 3 of 26 , May 1, 2011

          I'm pretty sure that you could even use a totally different die mechanic.  There are a few things you'd want to keep in mind.  First, unless you want to radically redesign a lot of the numbers, you'll want to stick pretty close to the -3 to +3 range.  You might be able to allow up to -5 to +5 before it breaks.

          Second, you will want to use something with a strong bell curve.  A straight d20 is just going to throw off a lot of the balance of the game.  The ladder assumes that most results are going to land around zero plus bonuses.

          Third, keep it simple.  Incorporating the One Roll Engine could be all kinds of awesome, but it really isn't FATE anymore.

          Of course, theres really nothing saying that "still FATE" is necessarily a good thing.

          On May 1, 2011 9:58 AM, "June Jazz" <gene200@...> wrote:
          > Yes, it would. Most Fate variants give an alternative to Fudge dice with 1d6
          > minus 1d6.
          >
          > On Sun, May 1, 2011 at 12:11 AM, jmoxx75 <JMOxx75@...> wrote:
          >
          >>
          >>
          >> I like everything about fate but fudge dice. If a game was made that used
          >> all of the core fate mechanics, the ladder, aspects, skills etc.. but the
          >> dice mechanics were different would it still be fate?
          >>
          >>
          >>
        • Eoin Boyle
          ... Once upon a time, someone explained FATE thusly: FATE is the Fantastic Adventures in Tabletop Entertainment system (yeah, I think that s a little goofy,
          Message 4 of 26 , May 1, 2011
            On Sat, Apr 30, 2011 at 11:11 PM, jmoxx75 <JMOxx75@...> wrote:
            > I like everything about fate but fudge dice. If a game was made that used all of the core fate mechanics, the ladder, aspects, skills etc.. but the dice mechanics were different would it still be fate?<

            Once upon a time, someone explained FATE thusly:
            FATE is the Fantastic Adventures in Tabletop Entertainment system
            (yeah, I think that's a little goofy, but ...), written by Fred Hicks
            and Robert Donoghue.
            It's built on FUDGE, but while it holds onto that systems flexibility,
            it gives some good structure on top of it. The base FUDGE rules are
            flexible to the point of slipping through your fingers when you try to
            grab them. As one person has put it:
            FUDGE is a box of lego bricks.
            FATE is the instruction book for one way to assemble all those bricks.
            FUDGE says, "assemble them however you want to! Isn't it great to have
            this freedom?"
            FATE says, "this is a good way to assemble the bits. Look at what we
            get at the end. Nice, eh?"
            FATE's story-oriented, making it easier, I think, for character flavor
            and imagination to assert themselves beyond what the D20 mechanics
            allow.
            There are two basic aspects of the mechanic that you should know:
            First, rather than numeric attributes associated with everything
            (skills, abilities, etc.), FATE uses a variation on FUDGE adjectives.
            Everything is: Abysmal - Terrible - Poor - Mediocre - AVERAGE - Fair -
            Good - Great - Superb - Epic - Legendary You can think of this in
            numeric terms (Abysmal = -4, Average = 0, Legendary +6), and sometimes
            that's useful. This layout is known as The Ladder.
            Secondly the default version of FATE uses FUDGE Dice, to produce
            variations from those skill levels. So if someone is testing their
            Fair swordplay and roll 4dF, coming up with [-][ ][+][+], they would
            have a net +1, or Good result (better than their average "Fair").

            In that, I see Fudge dice as a default. Which means that it's open to
            options. d6-d6 is the most common published alternative, but so is
            going diceless (my personal favorite).

            While not an official utterance from Fred, Rob, Lenny or any other
            copyright holder who can definitively say something is/is not FATE (cf
            "Fate & it's branches" on FATErpg.com), I believe that the "box of
            legos" metaphor is quite valid when determining if something is/is
            not/might be FATE.
          • Ryan Macklin
            Yup! I believe that at one point Fred & Rob were playing with a 2d6 (not d6-d6, but added together) build for their home game. - Ryan -- Ryan Macklin
            Message 5 of 26 , May 1, 2011
              Yup! I believe that at one point Fred & Rob were playing with a 2d6
              (not d6-d6, but added together) build for their home game.

              - Ryan

              --
              Ryan Macklin
              Production Manager, Evil Hat Productions
              blog: http://RyanMacklin.com | @RyanMacklin



              On Sat, Apr 30, 2011 at 9:11 PM, jmoxx75 <JMOxx75@...> wrote:
              > I like everything about fate but fudge dice.  If a game was made that used all of the core fate mechanics, the ladder, aspects, skills etc.. but the dice mechanics were different would it still be fate?
              >
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              > | Fate * http://www.faterpg.com/
              > | SOTC * http://www.evilhat.com/?spirit
              > | DFRPG * http://www.dresdenfilesrpg.com/Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
            • Dan
              Gotta say I sure hope so, my table has been playing with 2d6 and add for most of two years now :) ... From: Ryan Macklin To:
              Message 6 of 26 , May 1, 2011
                Gotta say I sure hope so, my table has been playing with 2d6 and add for
                most of two years now :)

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Ryan Macklin" <ryanmacklin@...>
                To: <FateRPG@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2011 11:55 AM
                Subject: Re: [FateRPG] Is Fate without fudge dice still Fate?


                Yup! I believe that at one point Fred & Rob were playing with a 2d6
                (not d6-d6, but added together) build for their home game.

                - Ryan

                --
                Ryan Macklin
                Production Manager, Evil Hat Productions
                blog: http://RyanMacklin.com | @RyanMacklin



                On Sat, Apr 30, 2011 at 9:11 PM, jmoxx75 <JMOxx75@...> wrote:
                > I like everything about fate but fudge dice. If a game was made that used
                > all of the core fate mechanics, the ladder, aspects, skills etc.. but the
                > dice mechanics were different would it still be fate?
                >
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > | Fate * http://www.faterpg.com/
                > | SOTC * http://www.evilhat.com/?spirit
                > | DFRPG * http://www.dresdenfilesrpg.com/Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >


                ------------------------------------

                | Fate * http://www.faterpg.com/
                | SOTC * http://www.evilhat.com/?spirit
                | DFRPG * http://www.dresdenfilesrpg.com/Yahoo! Groups Links





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              • Fred Hicks
                ... While dice mechanics have a big impact on flavor and style, I feel that they re probably the least important thing about what makes fate. Fred -- Fred
                Message 7 of 26 , May 1, 2011
                  On Sunday, May 1, 2011, jmoxx75 <JMOxx75@...> wrote:
                  > I like everything about fate but fudge dice.  If a game was made that used all of the core fate mechanics, the ladder, aspects, skills etc.. but the dice mechanics were different would it still be fate?

                  While dice mechanics have a big impact on flavor and style, I feel
                  that they're probably the least important thing about what makes fate.

                  Fred


                  --
                  Fred Hicks
                  Co-President, Evil Hat Productions, LLC - www.evilhat.com
                  Art Director, Hero Games - www.herogames.com
                • Malckuss
                  I personally prefer the 1d6 positive/1d6 negative and sum approach. The world kneels before love. It is humbled and awed by it. ... From: Fred Hicks
                  Message 8 of 26 , May 1, 2011
                    I personally prefer the 1d6 positive/1d6 negative and sum approach.


                    The world kneels before love. It is humbled and awed by it.

                    --- On Sun, 5/1/11, Fred Hicks <evilhat@...> wrote:

                    From: Fred Hicks <evilhat@...>
                    Subject: Re: [FateRPG] Is Fate without fudge dice still Fate?
                    To: "FateRPG@yahoogroups.com" <FateRPG@yahoogroups.com>
                    Date: Sunday, May 1, 2011, 12:20 PM

                     

                    On Sunday, May 1, 2011, jmoxx75 <JMOxx75@...> wrote:
                    > I like everything about fate but fudge dice.  If a game was made that used all of the core fate mechanics, the ladder, aspects, skills etc.. but the dice mechanics were different would it still be fate?

                    While dice mechanics have a big impact on flavor and style, I feel
                    that they're probably the least important thing about what makes fate.

                    Fred

                    --
                    Fred Hicks
                    Co-President, Evil Hat Productions, LLC - www.evilhat.com
                    Art Director, Hero Games - www.herogames.com

                  • Diongham
                    Chronica Feudalis has a dice pool system where you take the highest roll as your success. http://jeremykeller.com/2009/04/30/mathematica-chronica/
                    Message 9 of 26 , May 2, 2011
                      Chronica Feudalis has a dice pool system where you take the highest roll as your success.

                      http://jeremykeller.com/2009/04/30/mathematica-chronica/


                      --- In FateRPG@yahoogroups.com, "jmoxx75" <JMOxx75@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > I like everything about fate but fudge dice. If a game was made that used all of the core fate mechanics, the ladder, aspects, skills etc.. but the dice mechanics were different would it still be fate?
                      >
                    • Darren Hill
                      Yes, but Chronica Feudalis isn’t a fate game. It’s a Fate/Agon or Savage Worlds mash up, with other influences too. Like Icons, it’s one of those games
                      Message 10 of 26 , May 2, 2011
                        Yes, but Chronica Feudalis isn’t a fate game. It’s a Fate/Agon or Savage Worlds mash up, with other influences too. Like Icons, it’s one of those games that sometimes gets called a Fate game, but really isn’t. (It’s a very good game still, and worth checking out if you like authentic-seeming medieval fantasy.)
                         
                         
                        From: Diongham
                        Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 10:58 PM
                        Subject: [FateRPG] Re: Is Fate without fudge dice still Fate?
                         
                         

                        Chronica Feudalis has a dice pool system where you take the highest roll as your success.

                        http://jeremykeller.com/2009/04/30/mathematica-chronica/

                        --- In mailto:FateRPG%40yahoogroups.com, "jmoxx75" <JMOxx75@...> wrote:

                        >
                        > I like everything about
                        fate but fudge dice. If a game was made that used all of the core fate mechanics, the ladder, aspects, skills etc.. but the dice mechanics were different would it still be fate?
                        >

                      • jmoxx75
                        Is 2d6 add, rolling 2d6 + skill rating and the higher roll wins? If so do you add the 2d6 to a fixed difficult as well?
                        Message 11 of 26 , May 3, 2011
                          Is 2d6 add, rolling 2d6 + skill rating and the higher roll wins? If so do you add the 2d6 to a fixed difficult as well?
                          --- In FateRPG@yahoogroups.com, "Dan" <danielcansell@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Gotta say I sure hope so, my table has been playing with 2d6 and add for
                          > most of two years now :)
                          >
                          > ----- Original Message -----
                          > From: "Ryan Macklin" <ryanmacklin@...>
                          > To: <FateRPG@yahoogroups.com>
                          > Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2011 11:55 AM
                          > Subject: Re: [FateRPG] Is Fate without fudge dice still Fate?
                          >
                          >
                          > Yup! I believe that at one point Fred & Rob were playing with a 2d6
                          > (not d6-d6, but added together) build for their home game.
                          >
                          > - Ryan
                          >
                          > --
                          > Ryan Macklin
                          > Production Manager, Evil Hat Productions
                          > blog: http://RyanMacklin.com | @RyanMacklin
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > On Sat, Apr 30, 2011 at 9:11 PM, jmoxx75 <JMOxx75@...> wrote:
                          > > I like everything about fate but fudge dice. If a game was made that used
                          > > all of the core fate mechanics, the ladder, aspects, skills etc.. but the
                          > > dice mechanics were different would it still be fate?
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > ------------------------------------
                          > >
                          > > | Fate * http://www.faterpg.com/
                          > > | SOTC * http://www.evilhat.com/?spirit
                          > > | DFRPG * http://www.dresdenfilesrpg.com/Yahoo! Groups Links
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          > ------------------------------------
                          >
                          > | Fate * http://www.faterpg.com/
                          > | SOTC * http://www.evilhat.com/?spirit
                          > | DFRPG * http://www.dresdenfilesrpg.com/Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > -----
                          > No virus found in this message.
                          > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                          > Version: 10.0.1325 / Virus Database: 1500/3603 - Release Date: 04/28/11
                          >
                        • Bill Burdick
                          Not to roll in a golden apple (well, maybe that s really what this is...), but what are the most important things? Bill
                          Message 12 of 26 , May 3, 2011
                            Not to roll in a golden apple (well, maybe that's really what this is...), but what are the most important things?


                            Bill


                            On Sun, May 1, 2011 at 12:20 PM, Fred Hicks <evilhat@...> wrote:
                             

                            On Sunday, May 1, 2011, jmoxx75 <JMOxx75@...> wrote:
                            > I like everything about fate but fudge dice.  If a game was made that used all of the core fate mechanics, the ladder, aspects, skills etc.. but the dice mechanics were different would it still be fate?

                            While dice mechanics have a big impact on flavor and style, I feel
                            that they're probably the least important thing about what makes fate.

                            Fred

                            --
                            Fred Hicks
                            Co-President, Evil Hat Productions, LLC - www.evilhat.com
                            Art Director, Hero Games - www.herogames.com


                          • Ryan Macklin
                            From my view: Aspect + Trappings. Everything is built from there. - Ryan -- Ryan Macklin Production Manager, Evil Hat Productions blog: http://RyanMacklin.com
                            Message 13 of 26 , May 3, 2011
                              From my view:  Aspect + Trappings. Everything is built from there.

                              - Ryan

                              --
                              Ryan Macklin
                              Production Manager, Evil Hat Productions
                              blog: http://RyanMacklin.com | @RyanMacklin


                              On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 12:28 PM, Bill Burdick <bill.burdick@...> wrote:


                              Not to roll in a golden apple (well, maybe that's really what this is...), but what are the most important things?


                              Bill


                              On Sun, May 1, 2011 at 12:20 PM, Fred Hicks <evilhat@...> wrote:
                               

                              On Sunday, May 1, 2011, jmoxx75 <JMOxx75@...> wrote:
                              > I like everything about fate but fudge dice.  If a game was made that used all of the core fate mechanics, the ladder, aspects, skills etc.. but the dice mechanics were different would it still be fate?

                              While dice mechanics have a big impact on flavor and style, I feel
                              that they're probably the least important thing about what makes fate.

                              Fred

                              --
                              Fred Hicks
                              Co-President, Evil Hat Productions, LLC - www.evilhat.com
                              Art Director, Hero Games - www.herogames.com





                            • Fred Hicks
                              ... For me, probably: aspects, skills not attributes , the fate point economy, the fractal, and at least the vestiges of fudge adjective-number pairing. No
                              Message 14 of 26 , May 3, 2011
                                On Tuesday, May 3, 2011, Bill Burdick wrote:

                                > Not to roll in a golden apple (well, maybe that's really what this is...), but what are the most important things?

                                For me, probably: aspects, "skills not attributes", the fate point
                                economy, the fractal, and at least the vestiges of fudge
                                adjective-number pairing. No particular order.

                                Fred

                                --
                                Fred Hicks
                                Co-President, Evil Hat Productions, LLC - www.evilhat.com
                                Art Director, Hero Games - www.herogames.com
                              • Ryan Macklin
                                Yeah, the economy. For me, that s hard to separate away from Aspects+Trappings, but those are the engines and the economy is the drivetrain, or some other car
                                Message 15 of 26 , May 3, 2011
                                  Yeah, the economy. For me, that's hard to separate away from Aspects+Trappings, but those are the engines and the economy is the drivetrain, or some other car analogy.

                                  The fractal's interesting. I don't think it's core to Fate as it is a logical extension of the principles. Maybe those are one and the same?

                                  I tend to drop the adjective-number pairing when I run. For me, that's vestigial.

                                  - Ryan

                                  --
                                  Ryan Macklin
                                  Production Manager, Evil Hat Productions
                                  blog: http://RyanMacklin.com | @RyanMacklin


                                  On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 12:58 PM, Fred Hicks <evilhat@...> wrote:
                                  On Tuesday, May 3, 2011, Bill Burdick wrote:

                                  > Not to roll in a golden apple (well, maybe that's really what this is...), but what are the most important things?

                                  For me, probably: aspects, "skills not attributes", the fate point
                                  economy, the fractal, and at least the vestiges of fudge
                                  adjective-number pairing. No particular order.

                                  Fred

                                  --
                                  Fred Hicks
                                  Co-President, Evil Hat Productions, LLC - www.evilhat.com
                                  Art Director, Hero Games - www.herogames.com


                                  ------------------------------------

                                  | Fate * http://www.faterpg.com/
                                  | SOTC * http://www.evilhat.com/?spirit
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                                • Fred Hicks
                                  ... Word. ... Historical perspective. The fractal idea has existed for 7 of the 10 years at least, I m pretty sure, and has informed most of the phases of
                                  Message 16 of 26 , May 3, 2011
                                    On Tuesday, May 3, 2011, Ryan Macklin <ryanmacklin@...> wrote:
                                    > Yeah, the economy. For me, that's hard to separate away from Aspects+Trappings, but those are the engines and the economy is the drivetrain, or some other car analogy.

                                    Word.


                                    > The fractal's interesting. I don't think it's core to Fate as it is a logical extension of the principles. Maybe those are one and the same?

                                    Historical perspective. The fractal idea has existed for 7 of the 10
                                    years at least, I'm pretty sure, and has informed most of the phases
                                    of construction for me. It's a little chicken and egg for me at this
                                    point; are the principles logically extensible because things were
                                    built on that foundation, or are they the foundation? At this point I
                                    can only answer "yes".


                                    > I tend to drop the adjective-number pairing when I run. For me, that's vestigial.

                                    Well, I did say "for me". But without it the game feels blander to
                                    me, and less familiar.

                                    Fred

                                    --
                                    Fred Hicks
                                    Co-President, Evil Hat Productions, LLC - www.evilhat.com
                                    Art Director, Hero Games - www.herogames.com
                                  • Marcus Orealias
                                    ... the fractal The what now? -- Marcus -- whom hasn t encountered that term in his reading of FATE rpgs...
                                    Message 17 of 26 , May 3, 2011
                                      On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 3:58 PM, Fred Hicks <evilhat@...> wrote:
                                       
                                      For me, probably: aspects, "skills not attributes", the fate point
                                      economy, the fractal, and at least the vestiges of fudge
                                      adjective-number pairing. No particular order.
                                       
                                      "the fractal"
                                       
                                      The what now?
                                       
                                       
                                       
                                      -- Marcus
                                      -- whom hasn't encountered that term in his reading of FATE rpgs...
                                    • Aidan Grey
                                      Google Fate Fractal , and you ll learn about it. But basically, the idea is that every part of the game world is treated as a character. The universe you play
                                      Message 18 of 26 , May 3, 2011
                                        Google "Fate Fractal", and you'll learn about it. But basically, the idea is that every part of the game world is treated as a character. The universe you play in is a character, with character/world with character/nations with character/characters. Zoom in or out, it's all characters.

                                        On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 6:48 PM, Marcus Orealias <evileeyore@...> wrote:
                                         

                                        On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 3:58 PM, Fred Hicks <evilhat@...> wrote:
                                         
                                        For me, probably: aspects, "skills not attributes", the fate point
                                        economy, the fractal, and at least the vestiges of fudge
                                        adjective-number pairing. No particular order.
                                         
                                        "the fractal"
                                         
                                        The what now?
                                         
                                         

                                      • Fred Hicks
                                        I believe we covered it on FateRPG.com. Check out the site. :) Fred ... -- Fred Hicks Co-President, Evil Hat Productions, LLC - www.evilhat.com Art Director,
                                        Message 19 of 26 , May 3, 2011
                                          I believe we covered it on FateRPG.com. Check out the site. :)

                                          Fred

                                          On Tuesday, May 3, 2011, Aidan Grey <taalenmaple@...> wrote:

                                          > Google "Fate Fractal", and you'll learn about it. But basically, the idea is that every part of the game world is treated as a character. The universe you play in is a character, with character/world with character/nations with character/characters. Zoom in or out, it's all characters.
                                          >
                                          > On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 6:48 PM, Marcus Orealias <evileeyore@...> wrote:

                                          > On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 3:58 PM, Fred Hicks <evilhat@...> wrote:

                                          >
                                          > For me, probably: aspects, "skills not attributes", the fate point
                                          > economy, the fractal, and at least the vestiges of fudge
                                          > adjective-number pairing. No particular order.
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > "the fractal"
                                          >
                                          > The what now?
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >

                                          --
                                          Fred Hicks
                                          Co-President, Evil Hat Productions, LLC - www.evilhat.com
                                          Art Director, Hero Games - www.herogames.com
                                        • G C
                                          You add 7 to fixed difficulties. ________________________________ From: jmoxx75 To: FateRPG@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, May 3, 2011 11:54:32
                                          Message 20 of 26 , May 3, 2011
                                            You add 7 to fixed difficulties.


                                            From: jmoxx75 <JMOxx75@...>
                                            To: FateRPG@yahoogroups.com
                                            Sent: Tue, May 3, 2011 11:54:32 AM
                                            Subject: [FateRPG] Re: Is Fate without fudge dice still Fate?

                                             

                                            Is 2d6 add, rolling 2d6 + skill rating and the higher roll wins? If so do you add the 2d6 to a fixed difficult as well?

                                            --- In FateRPG@yahoogroups.com, "Dan" <danielcansell@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > Gotta say I sure hope so, my table has been playing with 2d6 and add for
                                            > most of two years now :)
                                            >
                                            > ----- Original Message -----
                                            > From: "Ryan Macklin" <ryanmacklin@...>
                                            > To: <FateRPG@yahoogroups.com>
                                            > Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2011 11:55 AM
                                            > Subject: Re: [FateRPG] Is Fate without fudge dice still Fate?
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > Yup! I believe that at one point Fred & Rob were playing with a 2d6
                                            > (not d6-d6, but added together) build for their home game.
                                            >
                                            > - Ryan
                                            >
                                            > --
                                            > Ryan Macklin
                                            > Production Manager, Evil Hat Productions
                                            > blog: http://RyanMacklin.com | @RyanMacklin
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > On Sat, Apr 30, 2011 at 9:11 PM, jmoxx75 <JMOxx75@...> wrote:
                                            > > I like everything about fate but fudge dice. If a game was made that used
                                            > > all of the core fate mechanics, the ladder, aspects, skills etc.. but the
                                            > > dice mechanics were different would it still be fate?
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > ------------------------------------
                                            > >
                                            > > | Fate * http://www.faterpg.com/
                                            > > | SOTC * http://www.evilhat.com/?spirit
                                            > > | DFRPG * http://www.dresdenfilesrpg.com/Yahoo! Groups Links
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > ------------------------------------
                                            >
                                            > | Fate * http://www.faterpg.com/
                                            > | SOTC * http://www.evilhat.com/?spirit
                                            > | DFRPG * http://www.dresdenfilesrpg.com/Yahoo! Groups Links
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > -----
                                            > No virus found in this message.
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                                          • Darren Hill
                                            I’m one of those old-timers who’ve been using Fate since before it was called Fate, and to me, the key elements of fate are: ASPECTS: these nebulous things
                                            Message 21 of 26 , May 3, 2011
                                              I’m one of those old-timers who’ve been using Fate since before it was called Fate, and to me, the key elements of fate are:
                                               
                                              ASPECTS: these nebulous things that are defined by the player, and can be used to both invoke for a bonus and be compelled by the GM for a bonus (fate point).  The fate point economy is part of this.
                                               
                                              ABILITIES: Stats like strength are not different from skills. If you roll it, it’s a skill; if you don’t roll it, it’s an aspect (or something else, like a stunt or trapping).
                                               
                                              STRESS: When you take ‘damage’, it’s not necessarily actually an injury. It was quite a revolution for me over the fudge engine when the first proper version of Fate had a damage track that replaced some of the wounds with things that weren’t wounds (Clipped and Hurt, despite their names, could be near misses that just put you on a temporary disadvantage, and you could define that differently based on whether you were in social or physical conflicts). This led to being able to declare conflicts and objectives as having their own stress track, and you gained progress by landing ‘injuries’ on it. It also led to the concepts of Concessions and Consequences.
                                               
                                              FRACTAL: the idea that you can treat things that aren’t characters as characters. I think this arose as much out of the evolving damage system described above, as it did out of using universal abilities to describe the properties of a non-character. Organisations could be given stats of their own, but they also had stress tracks. Ephemeral concepts, like the weather or The Darkness of My Soul can similarly be statted up and defined.
                                               
                                              LIMITED RANGE OF RANKS: having a small scale, like the 7-10 rank scale usually used. Descriptive terms for the levels, like Poor, Amazing, etc., is almost a core feature but doesn’t have to be.
                                               
                                              The dice system doesn’t need to be fudge dice, but it does need to be a system that works well with a limited range of ranks.
                                              I have used:
                                              * fudge dice
                                              * 2d6 + rank (or d6-d6; functionally identical)
                                              * 1d10 + rank (for highly variable results)
                                              * roll 1d6 per rank (with terrible = 0), counting 4-6 or 5-6 as successes
                                              * Sorcerer/Donjon-style dice rolling, where you roll a number of d10’s based on rank, and compare highest
                                              * Agon/Savage Worlds/Chronica Feudalis polynomial Dice, where the dice size (d4, d6, d8, etc) is set by your rank
                                               
                                              All of these gave results that felt pretty fate-like.
                                               
                                              EXTRAS: Another element that isn’t vital, but goes well with fate is having something that adds a little extra definition to a character, beyond abilities and aspects. Things like skill trappings and special abilities like stunts. Most fate games will have _something_ like this, but different Fate games could approach this in lots of different ways. It’s fertile ground to explore.
                                               
                                              Those are the things that most make a game feel like Fate to me, I think.
                                               
                                               
                                               
                                               
                                               
                                            • Diongham
                                              Fate inspired, is still Fate enough for me. That s not the point though, it showcase a system that doesn t use Fudge Dice, with a little tweaking can be
                                              Message 22 of 26 , May 5, 2011
                                                Fate inspired, is still Fate enough for me.

                                                That's not the point though, it showcase a system that doesn't use Fudge Dice, with a little tweaking can be applied to standard Fate.

                                                --- In FateRPG@yahoogroups.com, "Darren Hill" <darren0hill@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > Yes, but Chronica Feudalis isn’t a fate game. It’s a Fate/Agon or Savage Worlds mash up, with other influences too. Like Icons, it’s one of those games that sometimes gets called a Fate game, but really isn’t. (It’s a very good game still, and worth checking out if you like authentic-seeming medieval fantasy.)
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > From: Diongham
                                                > Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 10:58 PM
                                                > To: FateRPG@yahoogroups.com
                                                > Subject: [FateRPG] Re: Is Fate without fudge dice still Fate?
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > Chronica Feudalis has a dice pool system where you take the highest roll as your success.
                                                >
                                                > http://jeremykeller.com/2009/04/30/mathematica-chronica/
                                                >
                                                > --- In mailto:FateRPG%40yahoogroups.com, "jmoxx75" <JMOxx75@> wrote:
                                                > >
                                                > > I like everything about fate but fudge dice. If a game was made that used all of the core fate mechanics, the ladder, aspects, skills etc.. but the dice mechanics were different would it still be fate?
                                                > >
                                                >
                                              • stanshinn
                                                Darren, I was really intrigued by the various dice systems you have used as I am interesting in trying some of them out myself. Did you (or anyone else on the
                                                Message 23 of 26 , May 10, 2011
                                                  Darren, I was really intrigued by the various dice systems you have used as I am interesting in trying some of them out myself.

                                                  Did you (or anyone else on the list) try using the Ace/exploding dice part of Savage Worlds polynomial dice? I really like the open ended dice roll mechanic. I would also think this would speed up combat and get you into consequences more quickly.

                                                  -- Stan

                                                  --- In FateRPG@yahoogroups.com, "Darren Hill" <darren0hill@...> wrote:
                                                  > The dice system doesn’t need to be fudge dice, but it does need to be a system that works well with a limited range of ranks.
                                                  > I have used:
                                                  > * fudge dice
                                                  > * 2d6 + rank (or d6-d6; functionally identical)
                                                  > * 1d10 + rank (for highly variable results)
                                                  > * roll 1d6 per rank (with terrible = 0), counting 4-6 or 5-6 as successes
                                                  > * Sorcerer/Donjon-style dice rolling, where you roll a number of d10’s based on rank, and compare highest
                                                  > * Agon/Savage Worlds/Chronica Feudalis polynomial Dice, where the dice size (d4, d6, d8, etc) is set by your rank
                                                  > All of these gave results that felt pretty fate-like.
                                                • Marshall Smith
                                                  I would be curious to see how exploding dice would work in FATE. I think that it might twist the system out of shape. The new shape might be very viable and
                                                  Message 24 of 26 , May 10, 2011
                                                    I would be curious to see how exploding dice would work in FATE.  I think that it might twist the system out of shape.  The new shape might be very viable and interesting, though.  I would also think that you would almost need to have the dice explode in both directions.  That is, the highest result lets you roll again and add, but rolling a 1 also forces you to roll again and subtract.



                                                    On Tue, May 10, 2011 at 12:51 PM, stanshinn <stan@...> wrote:
                                                     

                                                    Darren, I was really intrigued by the various dice systems you have used as I am interesting in trying some of them out myself.

                                                    Did you (or anyone else on the list) try using the Ace/exploding dice part of Savage Worlds polynomial dice? I really like the open ended dice roll mechanic. I would also think this would speed up combat and get you into consequences more quickly.

                                                    -- Stan

                                                    --- In FateRPG@yahoogroups.com, "Darren Hill" <darren0hill@...> wrote:
                                                    > The dice system doesn’t need to be fudge dice, but it does need to be a system that works well with a limited range of ranks.
                                                    > I have used:
                                                    > * fudge dice
                                                    > * 2d6 + rank (or d6-d6; functionally identical)
                                                    > * 1d10 + rank (for highly variable results)
                                                    > * roll 1d6 per rank (with terrible = 0), counting 4-6 or 5-6 as successes
                                                    > * Sorcerer/Donjon-style dice rolling, where you roll a number of d10’s based on rank, and compare highest
                                                    > * Agon/Savage Worlds/Chronica Feudalis polynomial Dice, where the dice size (d4, d6, d8, etc) is set by your rank
                                                    > All of these gave results that felt pretty fate-like.


                                                  • Eoin Boyle
                                                    ... @Bending out of shape - not necessarily. Simply limit the reward for the explosion - instant Spin (or an additional Spin), a 1FP recharge, an Advance (if
                                                    Message 25 of 26 , May 10, 2011
                                                      On Tue, May 10, 2011 at 12:01 PM, Marshall Smith <samldanach@...> wrote:
                                                      > I would be curious to see how exploding dice would work in FATE.  I think that it might twist the system out of shape.  The new shape might be very viable and interesting, though.  I would also think that you would almost need to have the dice explode in both directions.  That is, the highest result lets you roll again and add, but rolling a 1 also forces you to roll again and subtract.<

                                                      @Bending out of shape - not necessarily. Simply limit the reward for
                                                      the explosion - instant Spin (or an additional Spin), a 1FP recharge,
                                                      an Advance (if using that for advancement). Something that could
                                                      easily happen in play on it's own would be a good candidate for a
                                                      reqard. However, I'd have the option of which reward is given be the
                                                      player's.

                                                      @Roll & Subtract - tried that once. Will not do again. In addition to
                                                      my usual complaint of "slows the game down," it definitely created
                                                      more confusion and the table felt like I was negating the player's
                                                      actions/choices. Just letting the 1 stand was much better received,
                                                      especially since that was tied to "no, and..." already.

                                                      @Roll & Add - this is a better fit for games where you're using Role
                                                      of Cool as part of the character concept - SotC, Dresden, SBA, Awesome
                                                      Adventures, etc. For something more realistic, I'd not even go
                                                      anywhere near an exploding mechanic - Diaspora, most notably. However,
                                                      I'd say that's more of a play-style issue and technique than something
                                                      to be used as a universal ruling...
                                                    • Jonathan Cook
                                                       I thank the fudge dice give fate some charm but they don t have to be used playing in a fate this month we are useing 2d6 The Dark lord of OZ I thank the
                                                      Message 26 of 26 , May 11, 2011

                                                         I thank the fudge dice give fate some charm but they don't have to be used
                                                        playing in a fate this month we are useing 2d6
                                                        The Dark lord of OZ
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