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Re: DFRPG - White Court Hunger

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  • adam Forman
    For example A White Court Vampire in combat uses only her Inhuman Strength which is a 2 refresh, so after combat is over they only need to make a 2 on their
    Message 1 of 14 , Apr 4, 2011
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      For example A White Court Vampire in combat uses only her Inhuman Strength which is a 2 refresh, so after combat is over they only need to make a 2 on their discipline roll to see if they take any hunger stress.

      That doesn't make sense to me, I mean they are pulling on the power of the inner demon inside them right so shouldn't they take hunger stress whenever they use their abilities? After combat they can see if the hunger track clears or stays. If they make the save the hunger track clears if not then the hunger stays until they either feed or some other reason.

      Now I don't mean if they attack twice with inhuman strength they take hunger stress twice just that when they make that decision to start using the inhuman strength or what ever power they use.

      --- In FateRPG@yahoogroups.com, Fred Hicks <evilhat@...> wrote:
      >
      > On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 12:55 PM, adam Forman <adam_forman@...>wrote:
      >
      > > Could someone explain to me why feeding dependency works the way it does,
      > > it just seems like it isn't really balanced since you can just use your
      > > supernatural abilities with nearly no consequence.
      > >
      >
      > Could you 'show your work', and demonstrate the math that's giving you that
      > conclusion?
      >
      > --
      > Fred Hicks
      > Co-President, Evil Hat Productions, LLC - www.evilhat.com
      > Art Director, Hero Games - www.herogames.com
      >
    • adam Forman
      For example A White Court Vampire in combat uses only her Inhuman Strength which is a 2 refresh, so after combat is over they only need to make a 2 on their
      Message 2 of 14 , Apr 4, 2011
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        For example A White Court Vampire in combat uses only her Inhuman Strength which is a 2 refresh, so after combat is over they only need to make a 2 on their discipline roll to see if they take any hunger stress.

        That doesn't make sense to me, I mean they are pulling on the power of the inner demon inside them right so shouldn't they take hunger stress whenever they use their abilities? After combat they can see if the hunger track clears or stays. If they make the save the hunger track clears if not then the hunger stays until they either feed or some other reason.

        Now I don't mean if they attack twice with inhuman strength they take hunger stress twice just that when they make that decision to start using the inhuman strength or what ever power they use.

        --- In FateRPG@yahoogroups.com, Fred Hicks <evilhat@...> wrote:
        >
        > On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 12:55 PM, adam Forman <adam_forman@...>wrote:
        >
        > > Could someone explain to me why feeding dependency works the way it does,
        > > it just seems like it isn't really balanced since you can just use your
        > > supernatural abilities with nearly no consequence.
        > >
        >
        > Could you 'show your work', and demonstrate the math that's giving you that
        > conclusion?
        >
        > --
        > Fred Hicks
        > Co-President, Evil Hat Productions, LLC - www.evilhat.com
        > Art Director, Hero Games - www.herogames.com
        >
      • Fred Hicks
        ... Ah, I see what you re getting at. You could certainly run it that way if you wanted, but I had some specific design goals in mind with the way it s
        Message 3 of 14 , Apr 4, 2011
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          On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 4:03 PM, adam Forman <adam_forman@...> wrote:
          For example A White Court Vampire in combat uses only her Inhuman Strength which is a 2 refresh, so after combat is over they only need to make a 2 on their discipline roll to see if they take any hunger stress.

          That doesn't make sense to me, I mean they are pulling on the power of the inner demon inside them right so shouldn't they take hunger stress whenever they use their abilities? After combat they can see if the hunger track clears or stays. If they make the save the hunger track clears if not then the hunger stays until they either feed or some other reason.

          Now I don't mean if they attack twice with inhuman strength they take hunger stress twice just that when they make that decision to start using the inhuman strength or what ever power they use.

          Ah, I see what you're getting at. You could certainly run it that way if you wanted, but I had some specific design goals in mind with the way it's structured:

          - Minimize the number of times someone has to roll their Discipline to control their hunger: Lots of rolling for this throughout the course of combat felt like it would weigh things down. This also felt like it fit the setting's fiction well, e.g., with Thomas collapsing from his power use after the desperate fight's over.

          - Given a single roll, make the Discipline roll's difficulty target equal to the total refresh cost of all the powers used: So if someone uses Inhuman Strength, Speed, and Recovery over the course of the fight, the difficulty target is 6. This to me is a far better model than any sort of "piecemeal" power-by-power rolling like you're suggesting, and also does a better job of representing the aggregate impact of pulling on a lot of your power instead of just a little bit of it.

          Fred

          --
          Fred Hicks
          Co-President, Evil Hat Productions, LLC - www.evilhat.com
          Art Director, Hero Games - www.herogames.com
        • Jan Willms
          Also, on the fluffy side of things, if a WCV isn t neck-deep into their bag of tricks by the end of the first round of combat, you re dealing with a very
          Message 4 of 14 , Apr 4, 2011
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            Also, on the fluffy side of things, if a WCV isn't neck-deep into their bag of tricks by the end of the first round of combat, you're dealing with a very restrained individual indeed. And those usually deserve all the breaks they can get.

            Jan
          • Fred Hicks
            ... Yep. As implemented, I think a WCV or RCI or what have you has a potentially interesting little resource-management game to play. Or from another
            Message 5 of 14 , Apr 4, 2011
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              On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 4:19 PM, Jan Willms <isenhertz@...> wrote:
              Also, on the fluffy side of things, if a WCV isn't neck-deep into their bag of tricks by the end of the first round of combat, you're dealing with a very restrained individual indeed. And those usually deserve all the breaks they can get

              Yep. As implemented, I think a WCV or RCI or what have you has a potentially interesting little resource-management game to play. Or from another perspective, gets to decide how much he wants to play a game of chicken with his Discipline skill.

              --
              Fred Hicks
              Co-President, Evil Hat Productions, LLC - www.evilhat.com
              Art Director, Hero Games - www.herogames.com
            • Leonard Balsera
              A friend of mine suggested hunger would have more punch if it were an attack, too. So instead of a Fantastic difficulty in Fred s example, it d be a Fantastic
              Message 6 of 14 , Apr 4, 2011
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                A friend of mine suggested hunger would have more punch if it were an
                attack, too.

                So instead of a Fantastic difficulty in Fred's example, it'd be a
                Fantastic *attack* that you roll at the end of the scene.

                One presumes this could be extended even further, to a weaponized
                attack, if you want to watch vampires go crazy in your particular
                game.


                -L
              • mrdroobles egghead
                The way I do it is something more like ampire with a little of the way magic works in Dresden Files. First: Whenever hey use a power in a scene they
                Message 7 of 14 , Apr 4, 2011
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                  The way I do it is something more like ampire with a little of the way magic works in Dresden Files.

                  First: Whenever hey use a power in a scene they automatically take 1 hunger stress. Ex: If one uses 3 different powers during the scene, than he has already taken 3 points in the hunger stress bar at the end of the scene. May use the power as many times as he likes during the scene, following the restrictions on the recover powers.

                  Second: You still do the roll against the total refresh used, but a success doesn't clear de hunger stress (unless you have the tatoo)! You are a vampire, you HAVE to feed at some point. There is no easy way out of this. And if they go a week without feeding, they take 1 point of hunger stress (or a consequence if you are an evil GM). In the case of the tatoos, then they have to spend some time meditating, or whatever fits the player.

                  Third: The hunger stress bar can have a stunt equivalent to the Generation in vampire, I didn't think all the details, but 1 refresh per two stress boxes come to mind. This is easier to create a vampire with a big fuel tank but with little control. So the White Lord was a freaking tank, maybe make a power that extends the period without feeding.

                  Fourth: I also would ask for a test mid battle (during the scene) if there is an overuse of the powers (anytime the total refresh of power used is bigger than the discipline level?).

                  This works for me at least.


                  --- Em seg, 4/4/11, Fred Hicks <evilhat@...> escreveu:

                  De: Fred Hicks <evilhat@...>
                  Assunto: Re: [FateRPG] Re: DFRPG - White Court Hunger
                  Para: FateRPG@yahoogroups.com
                  Data: Segunda-feira, 4 de Abril de 2011, 17:10



                  On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 4:03 PM, adam Forman <adam_forman@...> wrote:
                  For example A White Court Vampire in combat uses only her Inhuman Strength which is a 2 refresh, so after combat is over they only need to make a 2 on their discipline roll to see if they take any hunger stress.

                  That doesn't make sense to me, I mean they are pulling on the power of the inner demon inside them right so shouldn't they take hunger stress whenever they use their abilities? After combat they can see if the hunger track clears or stays. If they make the save the hunger track clears if not then the hunger stays until they either feed or some other reason.

                  Now I don't mean if they attack twice with inhuman strength they take hunger stress twice just that when they make that decision to start using the inhuman strength or what ever power they use.

                  Ah, I see what you're getting at. You could certainly run it that way if you wanted, but I had some specific design goals in mind with the way it's structured:

                  - Minimize the number of times someone has to roll their Discipline to control their hunger: Lots of rolling for this throughout the course of combat felt like it would weigh things down. This also felt like it fit the setting's fiction well, e.g., with Thomas collapsing from his power use after the desperate fight's over.

                  - Given a single roll, make the Discipline roll's difficulty target equal to the total refresh cost of all the powers used: So if someone uses Inhuman Strength, Speed, and Recovery over the course of the fight, the difficulty target is 6. This to me is a far better model than any sort of "piecemeal" power-by-power rolling like you're suggesting, and also does a better job of representing the aggregate impact of pulling on a lot of your power instead of just a little bit of it.

                  Fred

                  --
                  Fred Hicks
                  Co-President, Evil Hat Productions, LLC - www.evilhat.com
                  Art Director, Hero Games - www.herogames.com


                • chris@zerneeak.com
                  Also, remember one of the great things about doing vampires in Dresden is that vampire is directly in one of the character s aspects. This is easily
                  Message 8 of 14 , Apr 4, 2011
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                    Also, remember one of the great things about doing vampires in Dresden is that "vampire" is directly in one of the character's aspects. This is easily compel-able when the GM or player want a feeding scene. So, you don't need complicated mechanics to push for a feeding scene like in Vampire tM. The hunger stress just pushes this in the that direction due to the vampire exerting themselves.

                    ------------------------------------
                    friends don't let friends use IE6 Upgrade IE8 : Switch FF3
                    Chris Czerniak

                    On Mon Apr 4 15:01 , mrdroobles egghead sent:

                     

                    The way I do it is something more like ampire with a little of the way magic works in Dresden Files.

                    First: Whenever hey use a power in a scene they automatically take 1 hunger stress. Ex: If one uses 3 different powers during the scene, than he has already taken 3 points in the hunger stress bar at the end of the scene. May use the power as many times as he likes during the scene, following the restrictions on the recover powers.

                    Second: You still do the roll against the total refresh used, but a success doesn't clear de hunger stress (unless you have the tatoo)! You are a vampire, you HAVE to feed at some point. There is no easy way out of this. And if they go a week without feeding, they take 1 point of hunger stress (or a consequence if you are an evil GM). In the case of the tatoos, then they have to spend some time meditating, or whatever fits the player.

                    Third: The hunger stress bar can have a stunt equivalent to the Generation in vampire, I didn't think all the details, but 1 refresh per two stress boxes come to mind. This is easier to create a vampire with a big fuel tank but with little control. So the White Lord was a freaking tank, maybe make a power that extends the period without feeding.

                    Fourth: I also would ask for a test mid battle (during the scene) if there is an overuse of the powers (anytime the total refresh of power used is bigger than the discipline level?).

                    This works for me at least.


                    --- Em seg, 4/4/11, Fred Hicks escreveu:

                    De: Fred Hicks
                    Assunto: Re: [FateRPG] Re: DFRPG - White Court Hunger
                    Para: FateRPG@yahoogroups.com
                    Data: Segunda-feira, 4 de Abril de 2011, 17:10



                    On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 4:03 PM, adam Forman <adam_forman@...> wrote:
                    For example A White Court Vampire in combat uses only her Inhuman Strength which is a 2 refresh, so after combat is over they only need to make a 2 on their discipline roll to see if they take any hunger stress.

                    That doesn't make sense to me, I mean they are pulling on the power of the inner demon inside them right so shouldn't they take hunger stress whenever they use their abilities? After combat they can see if the hunger track clears or stays. If they make the save the hunger track clears if not then the hunger stays until they either feed or some other reason.

                    Now I don't mean if they attack twice with inhuman strength they take hunger stress twice just that when they make that decision to start using the inhuman strength or what ever power they use.

                    Ah, I see what you're getting at. You could certainly run it that way if you wanted, but I had some specific design goals in mind with the way it's structured:

                    - Minimize the number of times someone has to roll their Discipline to control their hunger: Lots of rolling for this throughout the course of combat felt like it would weigh things down. This also felt like it fit the setting's fiction well, e.g., with Thomas collapsing from his power use after the desperate fight's over.

                    - Given a single roll, make the Discipline roll's difficulty target equal to the total refresh cost of all the powers used: So if someone uses Inhuman Strength, Speed, and Recovery over the course of the fight, the difficulty target is 6. This to me is a far better model than any sort of "piecemeal" power-by-power rolling like you're suggesting, and also does a better job of representing the aggregate impact of pulling on a lot of your power instead of just a little bit of it.

                    Fred

                    --
                    Fred Hicks
                    Co-President, Evil Hat Productions, LLC - www.evilhat.com
                    Art Director, Hero Games - www.herogames.com



                  • adam Forman
                    Sorry I think I was misunderstood you don t roll a discipline roll for each skill used. I ll give another example. A White Court Vampire in combat uses Inhuman
                    Message 9 of 14 , Apr 4, 2011
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                      Sorry I think I was misunderstood you don't roll a discipline roll for each skill used. I'll give another example.

                      A White Court Vampire in combat uses Inhuman Strength in the first round to add some power to an attack thus taking a single hunger stress. Then uses her Inhuman Speed to try and dodge an attack but is still hit and takes a mild consequence since she is now also using her speed she takes another hunger stress. On her turn she shrugs off the consequence with Inhuman Recovery taking another hunger stress. She attacks, but since she is already using her strength she does not take an additional hunger stress.

                      After combat is done the WCV rolls a discipline roll against 6 for the three supernatural powers she used. If she succeeds her hunger track is cleared, but if she fails it isn't thus limiting her supernatural resources unless she feeds.

                      --- In FateRPG@yahoogroups.com, Fred Hicks <evilhat@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 4:03 PM, adam Forman <adam_forman@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > > For example A White Court Vampire in combat uses only her Inhuman Strength
                      > > which is a 2 refresh, so after combat is over they only need to make a 2 on
                      > > their discipline roll to see if they take any hunger stress.
                      > >
                      > > That doesn't make sense to me, I mean they are pulling on the power of the
                      > > inner demon inside them right so shouldn't they take hunger stress whenever
                      > > they use their abilities? After combat they can see if the hunger track
                      > > clears or stays. If they make the save the hunger track clears if not then
                      > > the hunger stays until they either feed or some other reason.
                      > >
                      > > Now I don't mean if they attack twice with inhuman strength they take
                      > > hunger stress twice just that when they make that decision to start using
                      > > the inhuman strength or what ever power they use.
                      > >
                      >
                      > Ah, I see what you're getting at. You could certainly run it that way if you
                      > wanted, but I had some specific design goals in mind with the way it's
                      > structured:
                      >
                      > - Minimize the number of times someone has to roll their Discipline to
                      > control their hunger: Lots of rolling for this throughout the course of
                      > combat felt like it would weigh things down. This also felt like it fit the
                      > setting's fiction well, e.g., with Thomas collapsing from his power use *
                      > after* the desperate fight's over.
                      >
                      > - Given a single roll, make the Discipline roll's difficulty target equal to
                      > the total refresh cost of all the powers used: So if someone uses Inhuman
                      > Strength, Speed, and Recovery over the course of the fight, the difficulty
                      > target is 6. This to me is a far better model than any sort of "piecemeal"
                      > power-by-power rolling like you're suggesting, and also does a better job of
                      > representing the aggregate impact of pulling on a lot of your power instead
                      > of just a little bit of it.
                      >
                      > Fred
                      >
                      > --
                      > Fred Hicks
                      > Co-President, Evil Hat Productions, LLC - www.evilhat.com
                      > Art Director, Hero Games - www.herogames.com
                      >
                    • mrdroobles egghead
                      Yeah, but wouldn t this compel be more in the cases of temptation? They saw a nice prey and suffer a compel to feed from it. The rules I proposed are more to
                      Message 10 of 14 , Apr 4, 2011
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                        Yeah, but wouldn't this compel be more in the cases of temptation? They saw a nice prey and suffer a compel to feed from it.

                        The rules I proposed are more to cover the spending of their blood (energy) reserves.
                        Basically they can go whitouth feeding forever, which is quite strange to me. They can even go bananas at any point, using every power avaiable and a simple discipline roll clears everything.

                        And I understand how the compel mechanic works, but I think some things should be more natural. I would really bother me if a GM would compel my vampire all the time just to force me to feed. After all, there is a discipline roll to clear the hunger, so if you are no hungry why do even feel like feeding? Unless your vampire walks around blood (or emotions) all the time it doesn't make much sense.

                        Even more if you look at the compel mechanic more closely. There is an auto refresh of FPs, so it could be very easy just to never feed. However, if your vampire is getting hungrier, compels would feel much more natural.


                        --- Em seg, 4/4/11, chris@... <chris@...> escreveu:

                        De: chris@... <chris@...>
                        Assunto: Re: [FateRPG] Re: DFRPG - White Court Hunger
                        Para: FateRPG@yahoogroups.com
                        Data: Segunda-feira, 4 de Abril de 2011, 19:36



                        Also, remember one of the great things about doing vampires in Dresden is that "vampire" is directly in one of the character's aspects. This is easily compel-able when the GM or player want a feeding scene. So, you don't need complicated mechanics to push for a feeding scene like in Vampire tM. The hunger stress just pushes this in the that direction due to the vampire exerting themselves.

                        ------------------------------------
                        friends don't let friends use IE6 Upgrade IE8 : Switch FF3
                        Chris Czerniak

                        On Mon Apr 4 15:01 , mrdroobles egghead sent:

                         

                        The way I do it is something more like ampire with a little of the way magic works in Dresden Files.

                        First: Whenever hey use a power in a scene they automatically take 1 hunger stress. Ex: If one uses 3 different powers during the scene, than he has already taken 3 points in the hunger stress bar at the end of the scene. May use the power as many times as he likes during the scene, following the restrictions on the recover powers.

                        Second: You still do the roll against the total refresh used, but a success doesn't clear de hunger stress (unless you have the tatoo)! You are a vampire, you HAVE to feed at some point. There is no easy way out of this. And if they go a week without feeding, they take 1 point of hunger stress (or a consequence if you are an evil GM). In the case of the tatoos, then they have to spend some time meditating, or whatever fits the player.

                        Third: The hunger stress bar can have a stunt equivalent to the Generation in vampire, I didn't think all the details, but 1 refresh per two stress boxes come to mind. This is easier to create a vampire with a big fuel tank but with little control. So the White Lord was a freaking tank, maybe make a power that extends the period without feeding.

                        Fourth: I also would ask for a test mid battle (during the scene) if there is an overuse of the powers (anytime the total refresh of power used is bigger than the discipline level?).

                        This works for me at least.


                        --- Em seg, 4/4/11, Fred Hicks escreveu:

                        De: Fred Hicks
                        Assunto: Re: [FateRPG] Re: DFRPG - White Court Hunger
                        Para: FateRPG@yahoogroups.com
                        Data: Segunda-feira, 4 de Abril de 2011, 17:10



                        On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 4:03 PM, adam Forman <adam_forman@...> wrote:
                        For example A White Court Vampire in combat uses only her Inhuman Strength which is a 2 refresh, so after combat is over they only need to make a 2 on their discipline roll to see if they take any hunger stress.

                        That doesn't make sense to me, I mean they are pulling on the power of the inner demon inside them right so shouldn't they take hunger stress whenever they use their abilities? After combat they can see if the hunger track clears or stays. If they make the save the hunger track clears if not then the hunger stays until they either feed or some other reason.

                        Now I don't mean if they attack twice with inhuman strength they take hunger stress twice just that when they make that decision to start using the inhuman strength or what ever power they use.

                        Ah, I see what you're getting at. You could certainly run it that way if you wanted, but I had some specific design goals in mind with the way it's structured:

                        - Minimize the number of times someone has to roll their Discipline to control their hunger: Lots of rolling for this throughout the course of combat felt like it would weigh things down. This also felt like it fit the setting's fiction well, e.g., with Thomas collapsing from his power use after the desperate fight's over.

                        - Given a single roll, make the Discipline roll's difficulty target equal to the total refresh cost of all the powers used: So if someone uses Inhuman Strength, Speed, and Recovery over the course of the fight, the difficulty target is 6. This to me is a far better model than any sort of "piecemeal" power-by-power rolling like you're suggesting, and also does a better job of representing the aggregate impact of pulling on a lot of your power instead of just a little bit of it.

                        Fred

                        --
                        Fred Hicks
                        Co-President, Evil Hat Productions, LLC - www.evilhat.com
                        Art Director, Hero Games - www.herogames.com





                      • bil
                        Remember the White Court King was not able to feed, and had not for years. So, for the game to be true the books, you need to be able to resist the Hunger to
                        Message 11 of 14 , Apr 4, 2011
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                          Remember the White Court King was not able to feed, and had not for years.
                          So, for the game to be true the books, you need to be able to resist the
                          Hunger to some extent.

                          On Monday, April 04, 2011 06:56:33 PM you wrote:
                          > Yeah, but wouldn't this compel be more in the cases of temptation? They saw
                          > a nice prey and suffer a compel to feed from it.
                          >
                          > The rules I proposed are more to cover the spending of their blood (energy)
                          > reserves. Basically they can go whitouth feeding forever, which is quite
                          > strange to me. They can even go bananas at any point, using every power
                          > avaiable and a simple discipline roll clears everything.
                          >
                          > And I understand how the compel mechanic works, but I think some things
                          > should be more natural. I would really bother me if a GM would compel my
                          > vampire all the time just to force me to feed. After all, there is a
                          > discipline roll to clear the hunger, so if you are no hungry why do even
                          > feel like feeding? Unless your vampire walks around blood (or emotions)
                          > all the time it doesn't make much sense.
                          >
                          > Even more if you look at the compel mechanic more closely. There is an auto
                          > refresh of FPs, so it could be very easy just to never feed. However, if
                          > your vampire is getting hungrier, compels would feel much more natural.
                          >
                          >
                          > --- Em seg, 4/4/11, chris@... <chris@...> escreveu:
                          >
                          > De: chris@... <chris@...>
                          > Assunto: Re: [FateRPG] Re: DFRPG - White Court Hunger
                          > Para: FateRPG@yahoogroups.com
                          > Data: Segunda-feira, 4 de Abril de 2011, 19:36
                          >
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                          > Also, remember one of the great things about doing vampires in Dresden is
                          > that "vampire" is directly in one of the character's aspects. This is
                          > easily compel-able when the GM or player want a feeding scene. So, you
                          > don't need complicated mechanics to push for a feeding scene like in
                          > Vampire tM. The hunger stress just pushes this in the that direction due
                          > to the vampire exerting themselves.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > ------------------------------------
                          >
                          >
                          > friends don't let friends use IE6 Upgrade IE8 : Switch FF3
                          >
                          >
                          > Chris Czerniak
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > On Mon Apr 4 15:01 , mrdroobles egghead sent:
                          >
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                          > The way I do it is something more like ampire with a little of the
                          > way magic works in Dresden Files.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > First: Whenever hey use a power in a scene they automatically take 1 hunger
                          > stress. Ex: If one uses 3 different powers during the scene, than he has
                          > already taken 3 points in the hunger stress bar at the end of the scene.
                          > May use the power as many times as he likes during the scene, following
                          > the restrictions on the recover powers.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Second: You still do the roll against the total refresh used, but a success
                          > doesn't clear de hunger stress (unless you have the tatoo)! You are a
                          > vampire, you HAVE to feed at some point. There is no easy way out of this.
                          > And if they go a week without feeding, they take 1 point of hunger stress
                          > (or a consequence if you are an evil GM). In the case of the tatoos, then
                          > they have to spend some time meditating, or whatever fits the player.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Third: The hunger stress bar can have a stunt equivalent to the Generation
                          > in vampire, I didn't think all the details, but 1 refresh per two stress
                          > boxes come to mind. This is easier to create a vampire with a big fuel
                          > tank but with little control. So the White Lord was a freaking tank, maybe
                          > make a power that extends the period without feeding.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Fourth: I also would ask for a test mid battle (during the scene) if there
                          > is an overuse of the powers (anytime the total refresh of power used is
                          > bigger than the discipline level?).
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > This works for me at least.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > --- Em seg, 4/4/11, Fred Hicks escreveu:
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > De: Fred Hicks
                          >
                          > Assunto: Re: [FateRPG] Re: DFRPG - White Court Hunger
                          >
                          > Para: FateRPG@yahoogroups.com
                          >
                          > Data: Segunda-feira, 4 de Abril de
                          > 2011, 17:10
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
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                          > On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 4:03 PM, adam Forman <adam_forman@...>
                          > wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > For example A White Court Vampire in combat uses only her Inhuman Strength
                          > which is a 2 refresh, so after combat is over they only need to make a 2
                          > on their discipline roll to see if they take any hunger stress.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > That doesn't make sense to me, I mean they are pulling on the power of the
                          > inner demon inside them right so shouldn't they take hunger stress
                          > whenever they use their abilities? After combat they can see if the hunger
                          > track clears or stays. If they make the save the hunger track clears if
                          > not then the hunger stays until they either feed or some other reason.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Now I don't mean if they attack twice with inhuman strength they take
                          > hunger stress twice just that when they make that decision to start using
                          > the inhuman strength or what ever power they use.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Ah, I see what you're getting at. You could certainly run it that way if
                          > you wanted, but I had some specific design goals in mind with the way it's
                          > structured:
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > - Minimize the number of times someone has to roll their Discipline to
                          > control their hunger: Lots of rolling for this throughout the course of
                          > combat felt like it would weigh things down. This also felt like it fit
                          > the setting's fiction well, e.g., with Thomas collapsing from his power
                          > use after the desperate fight's over.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > - Given a single roll, make the Discipline roll's difficulty target equal
                          > to the total refresh cost of all the powers used: So if someone uses
                          > Inhuman Strength, Speed, and Recovery over the course of the fight, the
                          > difficulty target is 6. This to me is a far better model than any sort of
                          > "piecemeal" power-by-power rolling like you're suggesting, and also does a
                          > better job of representing the aggregate impact of pulling on a lot of
                          > your power instead of just a little bit of it.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Fred
                        • chris@zerneeak.com
                          You would compel for an interesting scene. I you look at classic Vampire tM and vamp lost a blood point every time they woke up. Eventually, they would get low
                          Message 12 of 14 , Apr 5, 2011
                          • 0 Attachment
                            You would compel for an interesting scene. I you look at classic Vampire tM and vamp lost a blood point every time they woke up. Eventually, they would get low on blood and the player would say he would feed. Unless a hunting scene was interesting most of the time the player would declare how much time he would be spending to hunt, roll that many dice in hours and if he got a success he fed, if he failed he didn't. Boring. Why bother with hunting at all.

                            The point of the compel is to say at this moment in the fiction it would be cool to have a hunting scene, or to complicate another scene with vampire hunger. This can be declared by the GM or player and if the GM declares it the player can always pay a Fate point to refuse the hunger. This becomes even more relevant if you took a consequence as a result of taking hunger stress which would create an aspect like "low on blood" or "the hunger is overwhelming".

                            ------------------------------------
                            friends don't let friends use IE6 Upgrade IE9 : Switch FF4 or Chrome
                            Chris Czerniak

                            On Mon Apr 4 17:33 , bil sent:

                            Remember the White Court King was not able to feed, and had not for years.
                            So, for the game to be true the books, you need to be able to resist the
                            Hunger to some extent.

                            On Monday, April 04, 2011 06:56:33 PM you wrote:
                            > Yeah, but wouldn't this compel be more in the cases of temptation? They saw
                            > a nice prey and suffer a compel to feed from it.
                            >
                            > The rules I proposed are more to cover the spending of their blood (energy)
                            > reserves. Basically they can go whitouth feeding forever, which is quite
                            > strange to me. They can even go bananas at any point, using every power
                            > avaiable and a simple discipline roll clears everything.
                            >
                            > And I understand how the compel mechanic works, but I think some things
                            > should be more natural. I would really bother me if a GM would compel my
                            > vampire all the time just to force me to feed. After all, there is a
                            > discipline roll to clear the hunger, so if you are no hungry why do even
                            > feel like feeding? Unless your vampire walks around blood (or emotions)
                            > all the time it doesn't make much sense.
                            >
                            > Even more if you look at the compel mechanic more closely. There is an auto
                            > refresh of FPs, so it could be very easy just to never feed. However, if
                            > your vampire is getting hungrier, compels would feel much more natural.
                            >
                            >
                            > --- Em seg, 4/4/11, chris@... <chris@...> escreveu:
                            >
                            > De: chris@... <chris@...>
                            > Assunto: Re: [FateRPG] Re: DFRPG - White Court Hunger
                            > Para: FateRPG@yahoogroups.com
                            > Data: Segunda-feira, 4 de Abril de 2011, 19:36
                            >
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                            > Also, remember one of the great things about doing vampires in Dresden is
                            > that "vampire" is directly in one of the character's aspects. This is
                            > easily compel-able when the GM or player want a feeding scene. So, you
                            > don't need complicated mechanics to push for a feeding scene like in
                            > Vampire tM. The hunger stress just pushes this in the that direction due
                            > to the vampire exerting themselves.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ------------------------------------
                            >
                            >
                            > friends don't let friends use IE6 Upgrade IE8 : Switch FF3
                            >
                            >
                            > Chris Czerniak
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > On Mon Apr 4 15:01 , mrdroobles egghead sent:
                            >
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                            > The way I do it is something more like ampire with a little of the
                            > way magic works in Dresden Files.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > First: Whenever hey use a power in a scene they automatically take 1 hunger
                            > stress. Ex: If one uses 3 different powers during the scene, than he has
                            > already taken 3 points in the hunger stress bar at the end of the scene.
                            > May use the power as many times as he likes during the scene, following
                            > the restrictions on the recover powers.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Second: You still do the roll against the total refresh used, but a success
                            > doesn't clear de hunger stress (unless you have the tatoo)! You are a
                            > vampire, you HAVE to feed at some point. There is no easy way out of this.
                            > And if they go a week without feeding, they take 1 point of hunger stress
                            > (or a consequence if you are an evil GM). In the case of the tatoos, then
                            > they have to spend some time meditating, or whatever fits the player.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Third: The hunger stress bar can have a stunt equivalent to the Generation
                            > in vampire, I didn't think all the details, but 1 refresh per two stress
                            > boxes come to mind. This is easier to create a vampire with a big fuel
                            > tank but with little control. So the White Lord was a freaking tank, maybe
                            > make a power that extends the period without feeding.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Fourth: I also would ask for a test mid battle (during the scene) if there
                            > is an overuse of the powers (anytime the total refresh of power used is
                            > bigger than the discipline level?).
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > This works for me at least.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > --- Em seg, 4/4/11, Fred Hicks escreveu:
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > De: Fred Hicks
                            >
                            > Assunto: Re: [FateRPG] Re: DFRPG - White Court Hunger
                            >
                            > Para: FateRPG@yahoogroups.com
                            >
                            > Data: Segunda-feira, 4 de Abril de
                            > 2011, 17:10
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                            >
                            > On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 4:03 PM, adam Forman <adam_forman@...>
                            > wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > For example A White Court Vampire in combat uses only her Inhuman Strength
                            > which is a 2 refresh, so after combat is over they only need to make a 2
                            > on their discipline roll to see if they take any hunger stress.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > That doesn't make sense to me, I mean they are pulling on the power of the
                            > inner demon inside them right so shouldn't they take hunger stress
                            > whenever they use their abilities? After combat they can see if the hunger
                            > track clears or stays. If they make the save the hunger track clears if
                            > not then the hunger stays until they either feed or some other reason.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Now I don't mean if they attack twice with inhuman strength they take
                            > hunger stress twice just that when they make that decision to start using
                            > the inhuman strength or what ever power they use.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Ah, I see what you're getting at. You could certainly run it that way if
                            > you wanted, but I had some specific design goals in mind with the way it's
                            > structured:
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > - Minimize the number of times someone has to roll their Discipline to
                            > control their hunger: Lots of rolling for this throughout the course of
                            > combat felt like it would weigh things down. This also felt like it fit
                            > the setting's fiction well, e.g., with Thomas collapsing from his power
                            > use after the desperate fight's over.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > - Given a single roll, make the Discipline roll's difficulty target equal
                            > to the total refresh cost of all the powers used: So if someone uses
                            > Inhuman Strength, Speed, and Recovery over the course of the fight, the
                            > difficulty target is 6. This to me is a far better model than any sort of
                            > "piecemeal" power-by-power rolling like you're suggesting, and also does a
                            > better job of representing the aggregate impact of pulling on a lot of
                            > your power instead of just a little bit of it.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Fred


                            ------------------------------------

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