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Fudge Factor: Typed Damage

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  • ranthilian
    Good job on the Typed Damage article in the April Fudge Factor. You ought to add that as an option in the combat section of Fate.
    Message 1 of 16 , Apr 7, 2004
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      Good job on the Typed Damage article in the April Fudge Factor. You
      ought to add that as an option in the combat section of Fate.
    • James Pacek
      ... With the Typed Damage, is there still room for Clipped or is it too hard to score damage that 1 success = clipped just isn t worth it? Suggested wound
      Message 2 of 16 , Apr 8, 2004
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        On Apr 7, 2004, at 1:14 PM, ranthilian wrote:

        > Good job on the Typed Damage article in the April Fudge Factor. You
        > ought to add that as an option in the combat section of Fate.

        With the Typed Damage, is there still room for "Clipped" or is it too
        hard to score damage that 1 success = clipped just isn't worth it?

        Suggested wound track:

        1 [][] Scratched No penalty
        2 [][] Clipped -1 for next action
        3 [][] Hurt -1 to all actions
        4 [] Very Hurt -2 to all actions
        5,6 [] Crit. Inj. -4 to all actions
        7+ [] Incap. Taken out

        Thoughts? Comments?

        Thanks,

        _______________________
        Jim Pacek
        wilmanric@...
      • Robert Donoghue
        At some point I ll get around to a solid answer for typed damage for Fate, bt at the moment it bubbles around in my head as part of the idea of writing up a
        Message 3 of 16 , Apr 9, 2004
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          At some point I'll get around to a solid answer for typed damage for
          Fate, bt at the moment it bubbles around in my head as part of the idea
          of writing up a super-crunchy combat system for FATE just for those so
          inclined.

          But I'm hitting on something else. In revising the character
          generation chapter, we ended up with a lot more space for sidebars. A
          *lot* more space. Now, naturally we love stuffing those full of
          examples, suggestions and comments, but there are enough of them, that
          i figured I'd raise the flag and see what people had to say. Assuming
          we could randomly throw in some additional sidebars to clarify or
          expand on any element of character generation, is there anything in
          particular you'd like to see?

          -Rob D.
        • ranthilian
          ... I ld like at least one example of building a non-human character such as the typical fantasy elf or a sci fi alien (say a grey ). I realize it is just
          Message 4 of 16 , Apr 9, 2004
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            --- In FateRPG@yahoogroups.com, Robert Donoghue <rdonoghue@m...>
            wrote:
            >Assuming we could randomly throw in some additional sidebars to
            >clarify or expand on any element of character generation, is there
            >anything in particular you'd like to see?
            >
            > -Rob D.


            I'ld like at least one example of building a non-human character
            such as the typical fantasy elf or a sci fi alien (say a 'grey'). I
            realize it is just taste how you portray the 'special abilities' of
            non-human characters, but it would be nice to see some good examples.
          • Manveru
            Word!! - Stunts; if you ve already got them detailed elsewhere, more examples; if you ve already got examples, consider more examples. - Illustration of some
            Message 5 of 16 , Apr 9, 2004
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              Word!!

              - Stunts; if you've already got them detailed elsewhere, more examples; if
              you've already got examples, consider more examples.

              - Illustration of some ideas for how to use Aspects in different 'frame
              scales'; i.e. in Narrative timeframe (oveland journeys, playable downtime)
              vs. Dramatic frame scale (the 'typical' gaming frame scale); this is of
              course assuming that there's any interesting distinctions you can make
              regarding Aspects in those two contexts; let me know if this one is too
              vague, I'm not aptly describing it.

              - Related to the above, examples of how to use Aspects for things that don't
              require rolls. By way of example, I've adopted the words 'Twists' and
              'Edges' to describe the two most common things that Aspects/Stunts typically
              do; a Twist is when an Aspect is used for changing the circumstances of a
              scene, or setting up a future scene, possible giving an Edge later; example:
              using your Streetwise Aspect to find a speakeasy, or know who to talk to for
              information; an Edge is when an Aspect/Stunt is used directly to modify a
              roll. I think it would be particularily useful for folks new to the game to
              have just tons of examples like this.

              - Aspects for Scenes/Environment! If you've got any ideas for this, I'd love
              to hear them!

              - Actually, y'know, one thing about a system without setting is that a lot
              of gamers are turned off by a lack of 'Super power shopping lists'; you
              might be able to use some sidebars to both explain through game/dialog
              examples AND example lists for different setting styles; for example, you
              could carry the 'power shopping lists' in the sidebars in chapters that
              desscribe chargen and mechanics, and then those same side bars could be
              linked with other sidebars that describe softer campaign elements in the GM
              sections.

              Ok, I'm writing this in incredible haste, as I'm busy, but hopefully this
              makes some kind of sense; and you have to insert broad, hyper gestures
              everywhere, pacing, and run a few of the words together and so on to get the
              full effect really ...

              *zing!*

              -----Original Message-----
              From: Robert Donoghue [mailto:rdonoghue@...]
              Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 8:02 AM
              To: FateRPG@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [FateRPG] Chargen thoughts


              At some point I'll get around to a solid answer for typed damage for
              Fate, bt at the moment it bubbles around in my head as part of the idea
              of writing up a super-crunchy combat system for FATE just for those so
              inclined.

              But I'm hitting on something else. In revising the character
              generation chapter, we ended up with a lot more space for sidebars. A
              *lot* more space. Now, naturally we love stuffing those full of
              examples, suggestions and comments, but there are enough of them, that
              i figured I'd raise the flag and see what people had to say. Assuming
              we could randomly throw in some additional sidebars to clarify or
              expand on any element of character generation, is there anything in
              particular you'd like to see?

              -Rob D.
            • Alan Haley
              ... I personally think that it would be helpful to emphasize the idea that there are no attributes in the traditional sense. It s a significant departure from
              Message 6 of 16 , Apr 9, 2004
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                > But I'm hitting on something else. In revising the
                > character
                > generation chapter, we ended up with a lot more
                > space for sidebars. A
                > *lot* more space. Now, naturally we love stuffing
                > those full of
                > examples, suggestions and comments, but there are
                > enough of them, that
                > i figured I'd raise the flag and see what people had
                > to say. Assuming
                > we could randomly throw in some additional sidebars
                > to clarify or
                > expand on any element of character generation, is
                > there anything in
                > particular you'd like to see?
                >
                > -Rob D.

                I personally think that it would be helpful to
                emphasize the idea that there are no attributes in the
                traditional sense. It's a significant departure from
                "standard" RPGs and may take some getting used to.

                Alan H.

                __________________________________
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              • Landon Darkwood
                On Fri, 9 Apr 2004 10:02:14 -0400, Robert Donoghue ... Yes. 1.) A concise explanation of why Fate chargen is done the way it s done by
                Message 7 of 16 , Apr 10, 2004
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                  On Fri, 9 Apr 2004 10:02:14 -0400, Robert Donoghue <rdonoghue@...>
                  wrote:

                  > Assuming
                  > we could randomly throw in some additional sidebars to clarify or
                  > expand on any element of character generation, is there anything in
                  > particular you'd like to see?

                  Yes.

                  1.) A concise explanation of why Fate chargen is done the way it's done by
                  default, with everyone together and following the same Phase structure,
                  etc. Expansion on different methods of handling the Phases:
                  chronologically, topically, etc. All the stuff in the 'Character Creation
                  Options' chapter should be integrated into this material instead of being
                  its own island later in the book.

                  2.) Minor clarification as to the degree of GM involvement in the chargen
                  process - not necessarily setting a default, but providing some text on
                  what happens when a GM heavily informs player choices for Phase content
                  vs. what happens when s/he just sits back and lets the players run with
                  it.

                  3.) A note that if your group likes to hammer down Phase events with even
                  the slightest amount of specific detail, character creation will take a
                  long time and will probably take up the entire first session of play. :)

                  4.) Expansion on using Phase-based generation to create things other than
                  people, like ships or mecha or organizations or whatever. Could suggest a
                  nifty Aria-like way of making backstories for major constructs in the game
                  world, with each player contributing the history for a Phase or something
                  like that.

                  5.) This is a dumb little nitpicky thing compared to the above, but
                  instead of having the checkmark thing show the amount of invested skill
                  ranks, it could be used to show the number of skills at a certain rank, so
                  that the pyramid takes physical shape on the page.

                  For example, instead of this:

                  Knife ///
                  Herb Lore /
                  Healing //
                  Alertness //
                  Bluff /
                  Pickpocket /
                  Move Silently /
                  Hide /

                  You could have this:

                  Good: / (Knife)
                  Fair: // (Healing, Alertness)
                  Average: ///// (Herb Lore, Bluff, Pickpocket, Move Silently, Hide)

                  Call me weird, but this was a lot easier for me to work with in my own
                  chargen experiences.

                  I think that's it, as far as chargen's concerned.


                  -Landon Darkwood <darkwood@...>
                • Robert Donoghue
                  ... Just as a further adventure in transparency of our thinking: I ve got a pretty specific answer to this one, which I figure bears mentioning. The model you
                  Message 8 of 16 , Apr 10, 2004
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                    On Apr 10, 2004, at 11:45 AM, Landon Darkwood wrote:
                    > 5.) This is a dumb little nitpicky thing compared to the above, but
                    > instead of having the checkmark thing show the amount of invested skill
                    > ranks, it could be used to show the number of skills at a certain
                    > rank, so
                    > that the pyramid takes physical shape on the page.
                    >
                    > For example, instead of this:
                    >
                    > Knife ///
                    > Herb Lore /
                    > Healing //
                    > Alertness //
                    > Bluff /
                    > Pickpocket /
                    > Move Silently /
                    > Hide /
                    >
                    > You could have this:
                    >
                    > Good: / (Knife)
                    > Fair: // (Healing, Alertness)
                    > Average: ///// (Herb Lore, Bluff, Pickpocket, Move Silently, Hide)
                    >
                    > Call me weird, but this was a lot easier for me to work with in my own
                    > chargen experiences.

                    Just as a further adventure in transparency of our thinking:

                    I've got a pretty specific answer to this one, which I figure bears
                    mentioning. The model you use is actually exactly how We used to do
                    it, and sometimes still do. It's a little bit of a pain in the ass,
                    since you have to erase things and move them up and down, but it makes
                    a lot of sense - if you already understand the pyramid.

                    If I were to point to the one thing that requires the most explanation
                    in the system, it's the Pyramid, and we went round and round on ways we
                    could express it to people without it seeming overly mechanical or
                    confusing. I mean, we love the idea, and we think it's go a lot of legs
                    once it clicks, but getting it to click is not always trivial. To
                    date, the checkmark approach has held up as the most bulletproof
                    solution for showing it to someone the very first time.

                    But that said, yeah, shorter notation in a sidebar is probably an
                    excellent thing.


                    -Rob D.
                  • Mike Holmes
                    ... There s a sort of problem with this. It s bad to refer to other RPGs in certain ways in text. That is, saying Our game is not like other RPGs is
                    Message 9 of 16 , Apr 10, 2004
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                      >From: Alan Haley <alanhaley01@...>
                      >
                      >I personally think that it would be helpful to
                      >emphasize the idea that there are no attributes in the
                      >traditional sense. It's a significant departure from
                      >"standard" RPGs and may take some getting used to.

                      There's a sort of problem with this. It's bad to refer to other RPGs in
                      certain ways in text. That is, saying "Our game is not like other RPGs" is
                      automatically true (or you're doing copywrite infringment), and it says to
                      the reader that you're being apollogetic about the differences. That, or if
                      you do what some people do, and claim that the RPG is the best in the world,
                      then you look like a bragging buffoon.

                      All I'm saying is handle anything like this with a lot of care, guys.

                      Mike

                      _________________________________________________________________
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                    • Landon Darkwood
                      On Sat, 10 Apr 2004 13:23:35 -0400, Robert Donoghue ... If there s enough room, you could always throw both sets of notation in, with the
                      Message 10 of 16 , Apr 10, 2004
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                        On Sat, 10 Apr 2004 13:23:35 -0400, Robert Donoghue <rdonoghue@...>
                        wrote:

                        > But that said, yeah, shorter notation in a sidebar is probably an
                        > excellent thing.

                        If there's enough room, you could always throw both sets of notation in,
                        with the second being "if these checkmarks still don't help you to grok
                        the pyramid, try /these/ checkmarks..."


                        -Landon Darkwood
                      • dalcun
                        ... wrote: Id like to see a sidebar that details the default levels for diiferent skills EG: Normal general skills, swimming, climbing etc Difficult trained
                        Message 11 of 16 , Apr 13, 2004
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                          --- In FateRPG@yahoogroups.com, Robert Donoghue <rdonoghue@m...>
                          wrote:

                          Id like to see a sidebar that details the default levels for diiferent
                          skills

                          EG:

                          Normal general skills, swimming, climbing etc
                          Difficult trained skills, Sword fighing, Piloting, etc
                          Very difficult or rare skills, Magic, Nuclear physics, etc
                        • drpachyderm
                          ... I thought of using poker chips for the pyramid, where you get four (or five) poker chips every phase and place them on a piece of paper. You then stack
                          Message 12 of 16 , Apr 14, 2004
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                            --- In FateRPG@yahoogroups.com, Robert Donoghue <rdonoghue@m...> wrote:
                            > I've got a pretty specific answer to this one, which I figure bears
                            > mentioning. The model you use is actually exactly how We used to do
                            > it, and sometimes still do. It's a little bit of a pain in the ass,
                            > since you have to erase things and move them up and down, but it makes
                            > a lot of sense - if you already understand the pyramid.

                            I thought of using poker chips for the pyramid, where you get four (or
                            five) poker chips every phase and place them on a piece of paper. You
                            then stack them when you want to focus on a skill.

                            This should make the pyramid obvious and tactile, but I haven't tried
                            it out yet.

                            You should be able to tell whether a pyramid is balanced just by
                            looking at the stacks.
                          • Robert Donoghue
                            ... That is an insanely cool idea. I m going to have to try that out. -Rob D.
                            Message 13 of 16 , Apr 14, 2004
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                              On Apr 14, 2004, at 4:46 PM, drpachyderm wrote:
                              >
                              > I thought of using poker chips for the pyramid, where you get four (or
                              > five) poker chips every phase and place them on a piece of paper. You
                              > then stack them when you want to focus on a skill.
                              >
                              > This should make the pyramid obvious and tactile, but I haven't tried
                              > it out yet.
                              >
                              > You should be able to tell whether a pyramid is balanced just by
                              > looking at the stacks.


                              That is an insanely cool idea. I'm going to have to try that out.

                              -Rob D.
                            • James Pacek
                              ... Legos! Thanks, _______________________ Jim Pacek wilmanric@cableaz.com
                              Message 14 of 16 , Apr 14, 2004
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                                On Apr 14, 2004, at 1:46 PM, drpachyderm wrote:

                                > I thought of using poker chips for the pyramid, where you get four (or
                                > five) poker chips every phase and place them on a piece of paper. You
                                > then stack them when you want to focus on a skill.
                                >
                                > This should make the pyramid obvious and tactile, but I haven't tried
                                > it out yet.
                                >
                                > You should be able to tell whether a pyramid is balanced just by
                                > looking at the stacks.

                                Legos!

                                Thanks,

                                _______________________
                                Jim Pacek
                                wilmanric@...
                              • trey_palmer@yahoo.com
                                ... wrote: Assuming ... Well, I may be late to the thread, but I d like to see some page references to Extras, Plot Hooks and difficult skills from the get go.
                                Message 15 of 16 , Apr 19, 2004
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                                  --- In FateRPG@yahoogroups.com, Robert Donoghue <rdonoghue@m...>
                                  wrote:
                                  Assuming
                                  > we could randomly throw in some additional sidebars to clarify or
                                  > expand on any element of character generation, is there anything in
                                  > particular you'd like to see?
                                  >
                                  > -Rob D.

                                  Well, I may be late to the thread, but I'd like to see some page
                                  references to Extras, Plot Hooks and difficult skills from the get go.
                                  That way the GM and players can begin reaching a bit further.
                                  Thanks,
                                  Trey
                                • drpachyderm
                                  ... I totally should have thought about Legos! I even have a whole bunch of the angled Legos which would actually make a pyramid. I guess I ve been playing too
                                  Message 16 of 16 , May 10, 2004
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                                    --- In FateRPG@yahoogroups.com, James Pacek <wilmanric@c...> wrote:
                                    > On Apr 14, 2004, at 1:46 PM, drpachyderm wrote:
                                    >
                                    > > I thought of using poker chips for the pyramid, where
                                    > > You should be able to tell whether a pyramid is balanced just by
                                    > > looking at the stacks.
                                    >
                                    > Legos!

                                    I totally should have thought about Legos! I even have a whole bunch
                                    of the angled Legos which would actually make a pyramid.

                                    I guess I've been playing too much poker lately if it made me forget
                                    Legos.
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