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Re: [FateRPG] Newbie GM running fantasy FATE

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  • Alejandro Javier
    I m presently giving SotC a try for my runequest group. The campaign has beeing going on for 7-10 years (i really can t remember!) and characters are quite
    Message 1 of 26 , Jan 12, 2010
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      I'm presently giving SotC a try for my runequest group. The campaign has beeing going on for 7-10 years (i really can't remember!) and characters are quite powerful. RuneQuest sucks for "high level" characters, and tired of patches and fixes and a system thats quite complicated we decided to convert characters to the new RQ, then D20. Long story short, we (as in me) decided D20/pathfinder it's quite complicated + a lot of work, so we are trying fate/sotc.

      So far we are using -almost- RAW SotC skills (engineering is called artificer like in Swords, burglary is gone -sleight of hand manages lockpicking-, science is gone, academics is called lore, you cannot use athletics to dodge anymore and i think that's it).

      The most important (and easily ignorable) change is the addition of Feats. Feats are a "stunt tree"; you have 5 feats (instead of 5 stunts) and each feat provides a number of stunts equal to your rating in the skill. If you pick a second feat for a skill, it gives one less stunt, a third feat would give 2 less stunts, and so on.
      This can yield (in the best case scenario) 20 stunts. Thing is, i didn't want PC's having to spend 5 stunts in magic/combat styles and then "waste" the other options. That said, i don't think there's any new stunts besides some minor changes in languages, and you can easily rule the characters get stunts instead of feats or go stuntless.

      Magic-Wise (the only skill i have no description for) it will be stunt-based; this is one of the motives why i'm going with feats; characters should be able to be preety decent at spellcasting, not necesarily power-wise but they need a wide array of effects.

      I'll prolly finish uploading it after work, but basically there's the magic skill, and at least 4 feats for it (mysticism, sorcery, spirit/animism and rune/divine/theistic magic).Each feat will provide an array of spells from here: http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=293949 and maybe a couple of additions/differentiations for the setting (glorantha). I.E: only shamans will have the Astral Projection stunt, and there will be allied spirits, fetches, shamanic self-resurrections and so on.

      Anyway, here's the skill & feat list (remember, no magic yet!), you may be able to cannibalize something for your game: http://sites.google.com/site/faterq/home/skills

      Cheers,
      Alex
    • Timothy McDowell
      Thanks for the information, guys! ... -- --Brains.
      Message 2 of 26 , Jan 12, 2010
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         Thanks for the information, guys!

        On Tue, Jan 12, 2010 at 8:05 AM, John <jb.teller4@...> wrote:
         

        Looks like LoA had already been mentioned and explained. That's what I get for replying to the digest email instead of checking for more recent messages. :)

        ---
        John B.



        --- In FateRPG@yahoogroups.com, "John" <jb.teller4@...> wrote:
        >
        > Legends of Anglerre should be coming out soon. It's the fantasy supplement for Starblazer Adventures (I think you'll be able to buy it either as a supplement requiring SA or as a standalone with all the rules in one book if you don't have SA). It covers a range of fantasy styles of play and can cover most settings from D&D-esque to Sword-and-Sorcery to Exalted-esque to weird fantasy. The magic and powers system starts with tons of examples and has clear guidelines making it easy to customize to another setting. (I was involved in some of the earlier playtesting but haven't seen the finished version.)
        >
        > ---
        > John B.
        >




        --
        --Brains.
      • David Dunham
        Alex ... Have you looked at the latest HeroQuest? ... I assume you re not playing RQ2 with its Dodge skill? ... That s a seriously large number of stunts. I d
        Message 3 of 26 , Jan 14, 2010
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          Alex

          > I'm presently giving SotC a try for my runequest group. The campaign has
          > beeing going on for 7-10 years (i really can't remember!) and characters are
          > quite powerful. RuneQuest sucks for "high level" characters

          Have you looked at the latest HeroQuest?

          > So far we are using -almost- RAW SotC skills (engineering is called
          > artificer like in Swords, burglary is gone -sleight of hand manages
          > lockpicking-, science is gone, academics is called lore, you cannot use
          > athletics to dodge anymore and i think that's it).

          I assume you're not playing RQ2 with its Dodge skill?

          > The most important (and easily ignorable) change is the addition of Feats.
          > Feats are a "stunt tree"; you have 5 feats (instead of 5 stunts) and each
          > feat provides a number of stunts equal to your rating in the skill. If you
          > pick a second feat for a skill, it gives one less stunt, a third feat would
          > give 2 less stunts, and so on.
          > This can yield (in the best case scenario) 20 stunts.

          That's a seriously large number of stunts. I'd be concerned about playing a character with 20 stunts, and trying to remember what they all do. As I recall, it's unusual for RQ characters to have so many spells. One possibility could be to instead allow up to 5 runes -- look at HQ for a summary, or Sartar: Kingdom of Heroes for a lot of detail on how runes can provide magic.

          You might also want to consider more use of aspects -- for example, "Rune Lord of Orlanth" is something that could be compelled (e.g. by the Lightbringer Summons).

          Oh, and my basic rule of thumb: I hope you're not converting characters. Whether you go to HQ or FATE, you're going to have significant changes in feel, and IMO this always disappoints players.

          David Dunham
          Glorantha/HQ/RQ page: www.pensee.com/dunham/glorantha.html
          Imagination is more important than knowledge. -- Albert Einstein
        • Alejandro Javier
          OMG Its the world famous david dunham!!! Hi ^^ ... Nopers, players don t like HeroQuest, so im preety much buying HQ2 for me to read and not much else. Still,
          Message 4 of 26 , Jan 14, 2010
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            OMG Its the world famous david dunham!!! Hi ^^

            On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 3:07 AM, David Dunham <alakoring@...> wrote:
            Have you looked at the latest HeroQuest?

            Nopers, players don't like HeroQuest, so im preety much buying HQ2 for me to read and not much else. Still, i dont have it yet.
             
            > So far we are using -almost- RAW SotC skills (engineering is called
            > artificer like in Swords, burglary is gone -sleight of hand manages
            > lockpicking-, science is gone, academics is called lore, you cannot use
            > athletics to dodge anymore and i think that's it).

            I assume you're not playing RQ2 with its Dodge skill?

            RQ3 with minor house ruling to fix the horribly broken parts, with sandy's magic.

             
            > The most important (and easily ignorable) change is the addition of Feats.
            > Feats are a "stunt tree"; you have 5 feats (instead of 5 stunts) and each
            > feat provides a number of stunts equal to your rating in the skill. If you
            > pick a second feat for a skill, it gives one less stunt, a third feat would
            > give 2 less stunts, and so on.
            > This can yield (in the best case scenario) 20 stunts.

            That's a seriously large number of stunts. I'd be concerned about playing a character with 20 stunts, and trying to remember what they all do. As I recall, it's unusual for RQ characters to have so many spells. One possibility could be to instead allow up to 5 runes -- look at HQ for a summary, or Sartar: Kingdom of Heroes for a lot of detail on how runes can provide magic.

            20 stunts MAY seem like much, but consider 4-5 or even 7-9 of them will probably be "combat style related" (as per the combat style rules on evil wiki), the same ammount will probably go to magic (spell) stunts, and then at least 3 more into "scholar" stunts.
            I want them to actually have some stuns to make the characters unique, like a special mount, maybe an artifact, a companion, or a heroic skill.
            If they do turn out to be too many i can always cut down, but 20 is the theoretically maximum number, i think they'll probably end near the 12-15 mark.

            As for spells, the humakti alone has 160 POW worth of rune magic :S.

            You might also want to consider more use of aspects -- for example, "Rune Lord of Orlanth" is something that could be compelled (e.g. by the Lightbringer Summons).

            Ironically, i think that more than 10 aspects will become harder to manage than the stunts.

            Oh, and my basic rule of thumb: I hope you're not converting characters. Whether you go to HQ or FATE, you're going to have significant changes in feel, and IMO this always disappoints players.

             Meh, they've been playing the darn chars for so long i don't think they'll bother. Still, it will be an "alternate glorantha" (think marvel ultimates) with younger, cooler and more hip versions of the chars. But ill offer them to make new characters if they want to!

            Cheers,
            Alex
          • blowstertag
            ... FYI, HQ2 does not have much Glorantha content in it; it s largely generic . If you want to use an HQ2 book just for setting info, get Sartar: Kingdom of
            Message 5 of 26 , Jan 15, 2010
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              > Nopers, players don't like HeroQuest, so im preety much buying HQ2 for me to
              > read and not much else. Still, i dont have it yet.

              FYI, HQ2 does not have much Glorantha content in it; it's largely "generic". If you want to use an HQ2 book just for setting info, get "Sartar: Kingdom of Heroes" instead. It's huge and mostly setting content.

              > 20 stunts MAY seem like much, but consider 4-5 or even 7-9 of them will
              > probably be "combat style related" (as per the combat style rules on evil
              > wiki), the same ammount will probably go to magic (spell) stunts, and then
              > at least 3 more into "scholar" stunts.

              I would also advise you to go easy on the Stunts. Most of the PCs' abilities can be handled by the abstraction of Aspects + Skills. E.g., you don't need a Stunt for every type of spell they can cast or every ability. You just need an Aspect (e.g., "Rune Lord of Orlanth") and a Stunt that allows them to, e.g., use the Religion Skill to make ranged attacks and Maneuvers.

              I mean, if you look at the stats for Doctor Methuselah in SotC, he's a *really* powerful NPC... but he's not walking around with 20 Stunts. :)
            • David Dunham
              Alex ... How good of them to tell you before you even tried it. ... Players can presumably remember their existing character abilities because they ve used
              Message 6 of 26 , Jan 15, 2010
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                Alex

                > Nopers, players don't like HeroQuest, so im preety much buying HQ2 for me to
                > read and not much else. Still, i dont have it yet.

                How good of them to tell you before you even tried it.

                > 20 stunts MAY seem like much, but consider 4-5 or even 7-9 of them will
                > probably be "combat style related"

                I'm not concerned about power, just the ability to keep track! As in your:

                > Ironically, i think that more than 10 aspects will become harder to manage
                > than the stunts.

                Players can presumably remember their existing character abilities because they've used them so much. These new stunts, not so well, because they're all new.

                Note that Diaspora drops things to *3* stunts.

                Another reason not to exceed the 10 aspects: you, the GM, should know what they all are too!

                > As for spells, the humakti alone has 160 POW worth of rune magic

                And that's the sort of thing that's really hard to capture when you convert systems.

                If at all possible, run some sessions with new characters to get the feel of the game. That way you can be getting a sense for how fun it is, not "you broke my Humakti." You can then convert if people still want to.

                David Dunham
                Glorantha/HQ/RQ page: www.pensee.com/dunham/glorantha.html
                Imagination is more important than knowledge. -- Albert Einstein
              • Brad Murray
                ... To this end, I highly recommend a variation on the folding character sheet: Jeremy
                Message 7 of 26 , Jan 15, 2010
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                  On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 9:20 AM, David Dunham <alakoring@...> wrote:

                  Another reason not to exceed the 10 aspects: you, the GM, should know what they all are too!

                  To this end, I highly recommend a variation on the folding character sheet: <http://www.phreeow.net/Diaspora/Diaspora%20character%20sheet%20con.pdf>

                  Jeremy Keller (Chronica Feudalis) opened my eyes to it. It's a life save for any Fate GM and lets you avoid making mechanical decisions regarding the number of Aspects based on convenience and can concentrate instead on utility.

                  --
                  Brad Murray (halfjack)
                  VSCA Publishing
                • Alejandro Javier
                  ... I hate them. I truly do! ... Thing is, the implementation im aiming to treats stunts as stunt groups and the individual stunts as trappings of the
                  Message 8 of 26 , Jan 15, 2010
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                    On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 6:20 PM, David Dunham <alakoring@...> wrote:
                    Alex

                    > Nopers, players don't like HeroQuest, so im preety much buying HQ2 for me to
                    > read and not much else. Still, i dont have it yet.

                    How good of them to tell you before you even tried it.

                    I hate them. I truly do!
                     
                    > 20 stunts MAY seem like much, but consider 4-5 or even 7-9 of them will
                    > probably be "combat style related"

                    I'm not concerned about power, just the ability to keep track! As in your:

                    > Ironically, i think that more than 10 aspects will become harder to manage
                    > than the stunts.

                    Players can presumably remember their existing character abilities because they've used them so much. These new stunts, not so well, because they're all new.

                    Note that Diaspora drops things to *3* stunts.

                    Another reason not to exceed the 10 aspects: you, the GM, should know what they all are too!

                    Thing is, the implementation im aiming to treats stunts as "stunt groups" and the individual stunts as "trappings" of the stunt group (called feats because feat sounds more appropriate).

                    Picture this: the humakti has a hyppogryph (aspect & stunt), a cool "death" sword forged on a heroquest (aspect & stunt). He fights with two swords. If he wants "two weapon fighter" he needs flawless parry, and that leaves room for one spell, and none of the other 6 or so two weapon fighting feats will be ever be available.
                    Still, he will be able to cast ONE spell! Further, the character will have no access to other, non-cookie cutter feats...

                    See my point?

                    Cheers,
                    Alex
                  • blowstertag
                    ... My impression of this is that you re getting too granular. I mean, a whole Stunt devoted just to two-weapon fighting? When I read this (not a lot of data,
                    Message 9 of 26 , Jan 15, 2010
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                      --- In FateRPG@yahoogroups.com, Alejandro Javier <alejandro.hart@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Picture this: the humakti has a hyppogryph (aspect & stunt), a cool "death"
                      > sword forged on a heroquest (aspect & stunt). He fights with two swords. If
                      > he wants "two weapon fighter" he needs flawless parry, and that leaves room
                      > for one spell, and none of the other 6 or so two weapon fighting feats will
                      > be ever be available.
                      > Still, he will be able to cast ONE spell! Further, the character will have
                      > no access to other, non-cookie cutter feats...

                      My impression of this is that you're getting too granular. I mean, a whole Stunt devoted just to two-weapon fighting?

                      When I read this (not a lot of data, but hear me out), I see three Stunts:

                      1. Stunt that gives the PC access to magic and/or divine favor

                      2. Stunt that gives the PC their signature death-sword and its attendant powers

                      3. Stunt that lets the PC be a totally badass swordsman.

                      Beyond these three, I could see maybe adding a fourth Stunt that makes the PC harder to kill since they are "high-level"/heroic. I.e., a damage-track-enhancing Stunt.

                      Other than this, you give the PC appropriate Aspects and start their Skill pyramid at Fantastic[+6] or even higher. Done!
                    • Alejandro Javier
                      ... Sounds awesome and ill try to implement it!!! Its exactly what i was looking for. Any ideas on where could i find example stunts like divine magic or
                      Message 10 of 26 , Jan 15, 2010
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                        My impression of this is that you're getting too granular. I mean, a whole Stunt devoted just to two-weapon fighting?

                        When I read this (not a lot of data, but hear me out), I see three Stunts:

                        1. Stunt that gives the PC access to magic and/or divine favor

                        2. Stunt that gives the PC their signature death-sword and its attendant powers

                        3. Stunt that lets the PC be a totally badass swordsman.

                        Beyond these three, I could see maybe adding a fourth Stunt that makes the PC harder to kill since they are "high-level"/heroic. I.e., a damage-track-enhancing Stunt.

                        Other than this, you give the PC appropriate Aspects and start their Skill pyramid at Fantastic[+6] or even higher. Done!

                        Sounds awesome and ill try to implement it!!! Its exactly what i was looking for.
                        Any ideas on where could i find example stunts like "divine magic" or "badass swordsman"? The core SotC has "stunt chains" that go up to 6 stunts (and they preety much all are variations of the same stuff).

                        Cheers,
                        Alex
                      • Tim Hall
                        ... One of the key elements of Glorantha is *everyone* has access to magic, even the lowly farmer or craftsman knows some everyday magic. So does it really
                        Message 11 of 26 , Jan 15, 2010
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                          blowstertag wrote:
                          > When I read this (not a lot of data, but hear me out), I see three Stunts:
                          >
                          > 1. Stunt that gives the PC access to magic and/or divine favor
                          >

                          One of the key elements of Glorantha is *everyone* has access to magic,
                          even the lowly farmer or craftsman knows some everyday magic. So does it
                          really need a stunt? I'd use aspects to identify what sort of magic you
                          have, and just have magic as a skill. Your lowly farmer or craftsman
                          has Magic at the default of Mediocre.

                          --

                          Tim Hall
                          Weblog -> http://www.kalyr.com/weblog
                          Photos -> http://kalyr.fotopic.net
                        • Alejandro Javier
                          ... Hmmm... nice! and maybe use the gate to shadows (or whatever) from 2.0 to set difficulties! Cheers, Alex
                          Message 12 of 26 , Jan 15, 2010
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                            On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 10:07 PM, Tim Hall <kalyr@...> wrote:
                            blowstertag wrote:
                            > When I read this (not a lot of data, but hear me out), I see three Stunts:
                            >
                            > 1. Stunt that gives the PC access to magic and/or divine favor
                            >

                            One of the key elements of Glorantha is *everyone* has access to magic,
                            even the lowly farmer or craftsman knows some everyday magic. So does it
                            really need a stunt?  I'd use aspects to identify what sort of magic you
                            have, and just have magic as a skill.  Your lowly farmer or craftsman
                            has Magic at the default of Mediocre.


                            Hmmm... nice! and maybe use "the gate to shadows" (or whatever) from 2.0 to set difficulties!

                            Cheers,
                            Alex

                          • blowstertag
                            ... Ah, true. Well, then I d say a stunt makes sense for Rune Magic, as you typically need to be at least an Initiate to access that, right? Regardless, a
                            Message 13 of 26 , Jan 15, 2010
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                              --- In FateRPG@yahoogroups.com, Tim Hall <kalyr@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > One of the key elements of Glorantha is *everyone* has access to magic,
                              > even the lowly farmer or craftsman knows some everyday magic. So does it
                              > really need a stunt? I'd use aspects to identify what sort of magic you
                              > have, and just have magic as a skill. Your lowly farmer or craftsman
                              > has Magic at the default of Mediocre.

                              Ah, true. Well, then I'd say a stunt makes sense for Rune Magic, as you typically need to be at least an Initiate to access that, right?

                              Regardless, a Stunt that says "badass with magic", as opposed to everyday magic use.
                            • Avram
                              ... And I think the most common use of the Magic skill would be as a maneuver to slap an Aspect onto one of your own possessions, which you could then get one
                              Message 14 of 26 , Jan 15, 2010
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                                --- In FateRPG@yahoogroups.com, Tim Hall <kalyr@...> wrote:
                                > One of the key elements of Glorantha is *everyone* has access to magic,
                                > even the lowly farmer or craftsman knows some everyday magic. So does it
                                > really need a stunt? I'd use aspects to identify what sort of magic you
                                > have, and just have magic as a skill. Your lowly farmer or craftsman
                                > has Magic at the default of Mediocre.

                                And I think the most common use of the Magic skill would be as a maneuver to slap an Aspect onto one of your own possessions, which you could then get one free tag off of. Characters with low Magic skill could maybe take extra time to get bonus shifts, so you get the guy who spends an hour or so ritually spelling his various tools each morning.

                                If you're playing with the Diaspora scope rules, being able to easily put Aspects on your weapons comes in really handy in a fight.
                              • lfeh6y
                                ... I would also like to see the character s apex skill on the GM fold.
                                Message 15 of 26 , Jan 15, 2010
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                                  --- In FateRPG@yahoogroups.com, Brad Murray <bjmurray.halfjack@...>
                                  wrote:
                                  >
                                  > To this end, I highly recommend a variation on the folding character
                                  sheet:
                                  >

                                  I would also like to see the character's apex skill on the GM fold.
                                • David Dunham
                                  ... There s no requirement to double up. (I know people often do.) ... One could say you need to invoke Initiate of Orlanth aspect to use it. The Rune Priest
                                  Message 16 of 26 , Jan 15, 2010
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                                    > Picture this: the humakti has a hyppogryph (aspect & stunt), a cool "death"
                                    > sword forged on a heroquest (aspect & stunt).

                                    There's no requirement to double up. (I know people often do.)

                                    > I'd say a stunt makes sense for Rune Magic, as you typically need to be at least an Initiate to access that, right?

                                    One could say you need to invoke Initiate of Orlanth aspect to use it. The Rune Priest stunt lets you do so without spending a Fate Point.

                                    Or you could just say that all your PCs are high level, so is the campaign, and assume anyone can do it. Don't make everyone waste ink by writing down the same thing.

                                    David Dunham
                                    Glorantha/HQ/RQ page: www.pensee.com/dunham/glorantha.html
                                    Imagination is more important than knowledge. -- Albert Einstein
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