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Re: [FateRPG] Wacky idea: tie Fate to group size?

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  • Fred Hicks
    Group size is just one of the factors that plays into this. How long of a session you re going to have matters, too. 6 FP might be good for a 2.5 hour
    Message 1 of 9 , Feb 4, 2008
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      Group size is just one of the factors that plays into this. How long of
      a session you're going to have matters, too. 6 FP might be good for a
      2.5 hour session, but what about a 4 or 5 hour one?

      Let's assume those are the only two variables at play (they probably
      aren't, but we're not doing rocket science here, so they'll work).

      You could then propose a formula like this:

      # of hours expected to play = H
      # of players at the table = P
      # of fate points to give = F

      Here's one proposal:

      F = 2 + 2H - P

      So, a 3 hour game with 4 players: 2 + 2x3 - 4 = 4 refresh
      A 4 hour game with 6 players: 2 + 2x4 - 6 = 4 refresh
      A 4 hour game with 3 players: 2 + 2x4 - 3 = 7 refresh

      Etc. These days, I feel like 10 is a huge amount of freedom to give a
      player, so I tend to think on the notion of 5 refresh being the sweet
      spot. Much of the above formula orbits that number, accordingly.

      Of course, I think I might simply be tempted to solve this problem,
      inasmuch as it exists, with "full refreshes", "half refreshes", and
      "quarter refreshes", if it came down to it. The idea being that maybe I
      could give out a "quarter refresh" at the beginning of every hour of
      gameplay, or whatever, allowing folks to tank up if they've gotten low.
      When I know I'm running a short session, or playing with a group that's
      fairly large, I might just do a "half refresh" up front, and leave it at
      that.

      There's also a ideas that nibble around the edges of this -- such as:

      - Switching to a "use them or lose them" footing with fate points --
      refresh is what you start a session with, period -- you don't carry
      forward any surplus. This might encourage a more passionate pursuit of
      invocations -- there's no value in hoarding your extra.

      - The half/quarter refresh thing could also stimulate a greater
      willingness to spend the points, if folks know another refresh is coming
      mid-session. But it would also mean folks would start out with fewer
      fate points at any one time, which would (indeed) give compels more bite.

      - Other stuff I'm not thinking of.

      At any rate, you're not breaking anything, and this has certainly kicked
      off a few interesting ideas.

      Fred

      pbeakley wrote:
      > Okay, so I've run several sessions of out-of-the-box SotC. Awesome
      > game, having a great time, my players are starting to really click
      > with the system.
      >
      > A phenomenon that really jumped out at me was the difference in how a
      > 3-player SotC session ran vs. a 6-person session. In a given 4-5 hour
      > session of play, I simply can't give the same screen time to more
      > players. Consequently, the Fate economy slowed waaaaay down. Because
      > they weren't rolling as much, the players didn't need to spend Fate
      > as fast. And because they're not spending Fate as fast, it became
      > trivially easy for them to simply blow off Compels. The whole flow
      > just sort of, you know, dried up.
      >
      > So I was thinking: What if I tied each player's Fate to the total
      > group size, rather than their Aspects or whatever? Like maybe start
      > with 12 - (the # of heroes). That'd give you a baseline of 10 in a
      > group of two players and a GM. In my 6-person game, everyone would
      > get 6, of course.
      >
      > This changes what Fate "is" in, probably, an abstract and
      > metaphysical sense. But I do like that the players in a large group
      > would feel a stronger connection to their pool.
      >
      > Thoughts? Did I just break everything?
      >
      > p.
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > | Fate * http://www.faterpg.com/
      > | SOTC * http://www.evilhat.com/?spirit
      > | DFRPG * http://www.dresdenfilesrpg.com/
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
    • thelorddiggus
      ... Um ... I thought that s how it was supposed to be [:D] My group of four players on average play for 7ish hours, for refresh 12. I give refresh 6 since
      Message 2 of 9 , Feb 4, 2008
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        Fred Hicks <evilhat@...> wrote:

        > - Switching to a "use them or lose them" footing with fate points --
        > refresh is what you start a session with, period -- you don't carry
        > forward any surplus. This might encourage a more passionate pursuit of
        > invocations -- there's no value in hoarding your extra.

        Um ... I thought that's how it was supposed to be :D

        My group of four players on average play for 7ish hours, for refresh 12. I give refresh 6 since they're 6-aspect characters, and want a much grittier feel than Pulp, so the formula seems on the money. They're always out after big combats and it automatically makes for comic relief with all refilling compels.  

      • Fred Hicks
        ... Hm. I *thought* the text talked about how if you had a surplus it carried over to the next session, but if you ended up at less than your refresh at the
        Message 3 of 9 , Feb 4, 2008
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          thelorddiggus wrote:

          Fred Hicks <evilhat@...> wrote:
          > - Switching to a "use them or lose them" footing with fate points --
          > refresh is what you start a session with, period -- you don't carry
          > forward any surplus. This might encourage a more passionate pursuit of
          > invocations -- there's no value in hoarding your extra.

          Um ... I thought that's how it was supposed to be :D

          Hm.  I *thought* the text talked about how if you had a surplus it carried over to the next session, but if you ended up at less than your refresh at the end of the previous, you'd start the next with FPs equal to your refresh.

          Did I imagine that?

          Fred
        • thelorddiggus
          ... your ... equal ... SRD: The amount of fate points a player gets at a refresh is called his refresh rate and it is usually equal to the number of aspects
          Message 4 of 9 , Feb 4, 2008
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            Fred Hicks <evilhat@...> wrote:

            > Hm. I *thought* the text talked about how if you had a surplus it
            > carried over to the next session, but if you ended up at less than your
            > refresh at the end of the previous, you'd start the next with FPs equal
            > to your refresh.
            >
            > Did I imagine that?

            SRD: The amount of fate points a player gets at a refresh is called his refresh rate and it is usually equal to the number of aspects the player has. When a refresh occurs, players bring their number of fate points up to their refresh rate. If they have more, their total does not change.

            Yeah, I guess if you have more FP than your refresh you do keep the extras. That's just never happened in my games thankfully. Sorry for the confusion, I'll continue to use the option I quoted.



             

          • Brad Murray
            ... We ve always known about but ignored the carry-over rule. I like every session starting fresh at least in part because we rotate GMs with SotC, but also
            Message 5 of 9 , Feb 4, 2008
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              On Feb 4, 2008 4:11 PM, thelorddiggus <lorddiggus@...> wrote:
              > Yeah, I guess if you have more FP than your refresh you do keep the extras.
              > That's just never happened in my games thankfully. Sorry for the confusion,
              > I'll continue to use the option I quoted.

              We've always known about but ignored the carry-over rule. I like
              every session starting fresh at least in part because we rotate GMs
              with SotC, but also because I don't want to reward hoarding fate
              points.

              --
              Brad Murray (halfjack)
            • pbeakley
              ... the extras. ... confusion, ... That s my feeling on Fate points as well. Hoarding seems to reward the wrong kind of behavior. p.
              Message 6 of 9 , Feb 5, 2008
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                --- In FateRPG@yahoogroups.com, "Brad Murray" <bjmurray.halfjack@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > On Feb 4, 2008 4:11 PM, thelorddiggus <lorddiggus@...> wrote:
                > > Yeah, I guess if you have more FP than your refresh you do keep
                the extras.
                > > That's just never happened in my games thankfully. Sorry for the
                confusion,
                > > I'll continue to use the option I quoted.
                >
                > We've always known about but ignored the carry-over rule. I like
                > every session starting fresh at least in part because we rotate GMs
                > with SotC, but also because I don't want to reward hoarding fate
                > points.
                >
                > --
                > Brad Murray (halfjack)
                >

                That's my feeling on Fate points as well. Hoarding seems to reward
                the wrong kind of behavior.

                p.
              • pbeakley
                ... kicked ... Hm...what about trigger conditions for mid-session refreshes? Like...you get a half-refresh and to gain another half-refresh the play group, as
                Message 7 of 9 , Feb 5, 2008
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                  --- In FateRPG@yahoogroups.com, Fred Hicks <evilhat@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > - Other stuff I'm not thinking of.
                  >
                  > At any rate, you're not breaking anything, and this has certainly
                  kicked
                  > off a few interesting ideas.
                  >
                  > Fred

                  Hm...what about trigger conditions for mid-session refreshes?
                  Like...you get a half-refresh and to gain another half-refresh the
                  play group, as a whole, must:

                  * Accept a # of Compels = the # of players

                  or

                  * Spend Fate on a # of different Aspects = the number of players

                  or

                  * Earn a # of Consequences = the # of players

                  or

                  * Some other behavior you want to reward on a groupwide basis.

                  It'd be extra bookkeeping. It might "force" or at least strongly
                  incentivize weird behaviors that don't fit with the flow of the
                  session. Anyway, just some more thoughts.

                  p.
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