## RE: [FateRPG] Dice besides D6?

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• ... The difference that this produces would seem to be too minor to bother with. Fudge/Fate has a history of using lots of different dice types. Afew links can
Message 1 of 14 , Sep 5, 2007
> -----Original Message-----
> From: FateRPG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FateRPG@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of hainted
> Has anyone tried other types of dice for the system?I'm considering
> D10s with the following spread
> 1-3:Negative
> 4-7:Blank
> 8-0:Positive.
> Thoughts?

The difference that this produces would seem to be too minor to bother
with. Fudge/Fate has a history of using lots of different dice types.
Afew links can be found here:
http://www.fudgerpg.info/guide/bin/view/Guide/DiceIndex

Darren
• ... Well, you are weighting the table more towards zero. That S okay if you want to make the results less random. The downside is that it takes a bit longer to
Message 2 of 14 , Sep 5, 2007
--- In FateRPG@yahoogroups.com, "hainted" <hainted@...> wrote:
>
> Has anyone tried other types of dice for the system?I'm considering
> D10s with the following spread
> 1-3:Negative
> 4-7:Blank
> 8-0:Positive.
> Thoughts?
>

Well, you are weighting the table more towards zero. That'S okay if
you want to make the results less random.

The downside is that it takes a bit longer to tally up the result than
with FUDGE dice. "+" "-" "0" "+" is eaiser and faster to tally up
than "8" "3" "7" "10".

And this is all for the a 6.67% shift in the probabilties.
• I personally dislike using d6 s or normal dice for fudge-based games. My brain doesn t like to do the number conversions. Fate used to use an odd/even system
Message 3 of 14 , Sep 5, 2007
I personally dislike using d6's or normal dice for fudge-based games. My brain doesn't like
to do the number conversions. Fate used to use an odd/even system that could be used
with any dice, which was easy for anyone to calculate at a glance. However, odd/even
gives only a 50/50 chance, which dramatically raises the standard deviation compared to
the normal Fudge dice bell curve.

I recently thought up a new dice-rolling method that can be used with any polyhedral dice
and perfectly replicates the Fudge bell curve. It's a hybrid of the old odd/even system, but
gives the standard 1/3 chance for +/-, instead of 50/50. Try this out:

Two sets of differently coloured polyhedral dice are needed, but only four dice from each
set are used. The four dice chosen should be the same kind of dice dice from each set. For
my example, I'll use blue dice and red dice.

So, let's say we have a blue d4, d6, d8, and d20, and a red d4, d6, d8, and d20.

One colour must be attributed as the "neutral set", and one colour must be attributed as
the "action set". I'll call blue "neutral", and red "active".

Red dice (action dice): Even numbers are +1. Odd numbers are -1.
Blue dice (neutral dice): Even numbers are "no change" (the equivalent of the blank sides
on Fudge dice.) Odd numbers are nothing, and are not counted.

Rolling the dice:

1. Roll all eight dice.
2. Slide away all oddly numbered blue dice. (these aren't counted at all)
3. Slide away all evenly numbered blue dice, as well as the matching red dice. (ie. slide
away the even result for the blue d6, and take the red d6 away at the same time,
regardless of the red die's result. The red die has rolled the "blank side" of the fudge die.)
4. Slide away mismatched odd vs. even red dice.

Example roll:
Blue: d4=3, d6=4, d8=8, d20=1
Red: d4=4, d6=2, d8=4, d20=5

The blue d4 and d20 are discarded. The blue AND red d6's and d8's are then discarded.
This leaves you with the evenly numbered red d4 and the oddly numbered red d20, which
cancel each other out. The result is +0.

This method sounds kooky at first, but after a few tries, it's surprisingly fast and easy. It's
pretty fun too, with all that fast dice moving. Still not as quick as normal fudge dice, but at
least there's no math or confusing number conversions.
• My group is heavy on D10s and WOD D10s especially.No reason other than Warhammer and WOD are the systems we use most.For some reason though while we can
Message 4 of 14 , Sep 5, 2007
My group is heavy on D10s and WOD D10s especially.No reason other
than Warhammer and WOD are the systems we use most.For some reason
though while we can produce groups of D4s,D8s,and so forth only a
couple of us have more than 2 or 3 D6s.
--- In FateRPG@yahoogroups.com, "yasmine_bint_salim"
<yasmine_bint_salim@...> wrote:
>
> --- In FateRPG@yahoogroups.com, "hainted" <hainted@> wrote:
> >
> > Has anyone tried other types of dice for the system?I'm
considering
> > D10s with the following spread
> > 1-3:Negative
> > 4-7:Blank
> > 8-0:Positive.
> > Thoughts?
> >
>
>
> Well, you are weighting the table more towards zero. That'S okay if
> you want to make the results less random.
>
> The downside is that it takes a bit longer to tally up the result
than
> with FUDGE dice. "+" "-" "0" "+" is eaiser and faster to tally up
> than "8" "3" "7" "10".
>
> And this is all for the a 6.67% shift in the probabilties.
>
• ... with any polyhedral dice ... old odd/even system, but ... That is not quite the same curve as a dF. A single dF has a 3 possible results (-1,0,1) but your
Message 5 of 14 , Sep 5, 2007
--- In FateRPG@yahoogroups.com, "Dean Baker" <deanjbaker2@...> wrote:

> I recently thought up a new dice-rolling method that can be used
with any polyhedral dice
> and perfectly replicates the Fudge bell curve. It's a hybrid of the
old odd/even system, but
> gives the standard 1/3 chance for +/-, instead of 50/50.

That is not quite the same curve as a dF. A single dF has a 3
possible results (-1,0,1) but your red/blue dice combo has 4 possible
results (-1,0,0,1). So it's not exactly the same.

RedBlue..Value
---------------------------------
Even..Even.. 0
Even...Odd... 1
Odd....Even.. 0
Odd....Odd.. -1

It's not bad but it's not the same.

Mitch
• ... Hmmm, you re right. I hadn t thought of that. Perhaps my system is sort of a middle ground between 4dF and 4dF.1 My system: 1/4 chance of +/-, 1/2 chance
Message 6 of 14 , Sep 5, 2007
--- In FateRPG@yahoogroups.com, "_M_A_W_" <maw_mail@...> wrote:
>
> --- In FateRPG@yahoogroups.com, "Dean Baker" <deanjbaker2@> wrote:
>
> > I recently thought up a new dice-rolling method that can be used
> with any polyhedral dice
> > and perfectly replicates the Fudge bell curve. It's a hybrid of the
> old odd/even system, but
> > gives the standard 1/3 chance for +/-, instead of 50/50.
>
> That is not quite the same curve as a dF. A single dF has a 3
> possible results (-1,0,1) but your red/blue dice combo has 4 possible
> results (-1,0,0,1). So it's not exactly the same.
>
> RedBlue..Value
> ---------------------------------
> Even..Even.. 0
> Even...Odd... 1
> Odd....Even.. 0
> Odd....Odd.. -1
>
> It's not bad but it's not the same.
>
> Mitch

Hmmm, you're right. I hadn't thought of that. Perhaps my system is sort of a "middle
ground" between 4dF and 4dF.1

My system: 1/4 chance of +/-, 1/2 chance of 0
4dF.1: 1/6 chance of +/-, 2/3 chance of 0
• ... sort of a middle ... If I don t have Fudge dice I usually just use the percentile chart from the basic fudge document. (or the 3d6 method if the player
Message 7 of 14 , Sep 5, 2007
--- In FateRPG@yahoogroups.com, "Dean Baker" <deanjbaker2@...> wrote:

> Hmmm, you're right. I hadn't thought of that. Perhaps my system is
sort of a "middle
> ground" between 4dF and 4dF.1
>
> My system: 1/4 chance of +/-, 1/2 chance of 0
> 4dF.1: 1/6 chance of +/-, 2/3 chance of 0

If I don't have Fudge dice I usually just use the percentile chart
from the basic fudge document. (or the 3d6 method if the player
prefers).

I have calculated many optional fudge roll systems with cards and
alternate dice but if it came down to where I just had to have an
alternate method I would flip any 7 coins, count the heads and
subtract 4 (-4 to +4) or flip 6 count heads and subtract 3 (-3 to
3). That's close enough for me.

Mitch
• I prefer the D6 - d6 method - it s so much simpler than having to work things out in your head, and has the bonus of giving the occasional +5 or disastrous -5
Message 8 of 14 , Sep 6, 2007
I prefer the D6 - d6 method - it's so much simpler than having to
work things out in your head, and has the bonus of giving the
occasional +5 or disastrous -5 result.

If I'm adding numbers I want it to be modifiers not working out what

--- In FateRPG@yahoogroups.com, "_M_A_W_" <maw_mail@...> wrote:
>
> --- In FateRPG@yahoogroups.com, "Dean Baker" <deanjbaker2@> wrote:
>
> > Hmmm, you're right. I hadn't thought of that. Perhaps my system
is
> sort of a "middle
> > ground" between 4dF and 4dF.1
> >
> > My system: 1/4 chance of +/-, 1/2 chance of 0
> > 4dF.1: 1/6 chance of +/-, 2/3 chance of 0
>
> If I don't have Fudge dice I usually just use the percentile chart
> from the basic fudge document. (or the 3d6 method if the player
> prefers).
>
> I have calculated many optional fudge roll systems with cards and
> alternate dice but if it came down to where I just had to have an
> alternate method I would flip any 7 coins, count the heads and
> subtract 4 (-4 to +4) or flip 6 count heads and subtract 3 (-3 to
> 3). That's close enough for me.
>
> Mitch
>
• Gads, these numbers are wild. Isn t adding new dice types counter intuitive to Fate in the first place? The more dice you have to bring to the table and the
Message 9 of 14 , Sep 6, 2007
intuitive to Fate in the first place? The more dice you have to bring
to the table and the more "Thinking" you have to do every role means
less time role-playing and slower resolution. I think the other way
should be looked at...is there a way to come up with the same range of
possible dice rolls with LESS dice. Could a polyhedral die be cut that
could be rolled once to give the same results of rolling 4 d6(F) dice.
More importantly, how can I use my d6 from Marvel Heroes to recreate
Fate rolls! :-)

I do think it is kind of funny that a gamer, as noted above, can only
come up with a few d6 but tons of d-other! It is the opposite with me,
of course, but all you need is one box of Risk or Axis and Allies or
just about any other board game other than, oh, Formula De. :-) That
is always what struck me as ironic about "d20" in that d20 was more d-
many. Only a few systems ever really adoped a one-die system (like
Mutants and Masterminds, etc.).
• ... He meant new dice as a replacement for, rather that in addition to the standard Fudge dice. Using different types of dice instead of Fudge dice is
Message 10 of 14 , Sep 6, 2007
--- In FateRPG@yahoogroups.com, "argyleashtree" <pkflorian@...> wrote:
>
> Gads, these numbers are wild. Isn't adding new dice types counter
> intuitive to Fate in the first place? The more dice you have to bring
> to the table and the more "Thinking" you have to do every role means
> less time role-playing and slower resolution. I think the other way
> should be looked at...is there a way to come up with the same range of
> possible dice rolls with LESS dice. Could a polyhedral die be cut that
> could be rolled once to give the same results of rolling 4 d6(F) dice.
> More importantly, how can I use my d6 from Marvel Heroes to recreate
> Fate rolls! :-)
>
> I do think it is kind of funny that a gamer, as noted above, can only
> come up with a few d6 but tons of d-other! It is the opposite with me,
> of course, but all you need is one box of Risk or Axis and Allies or
> just about any other board game other than, oh, Formula De. :-) That
> is always what struck me as ironic about "d20" in that d20 was more d-
> many. Only a few systems ever really adoped a one-die system (like
> Mutants and Masterminds, etc.).
>

He meant new dice as a replacement for, rather that in addition to the
standard Fudge dice. Using different types of dice instead of Fudge
dice is certainly part of Fate, as in Fate 2.0's multiple d6 option.
• LOL, when I read you post I thought Why d10S?, is he a Storyteller System fan who bought one of those sets of dice from White Wolf? IF you don t mind
Message 11 of 14 , Sep 6, 2007
LOL, when I read you post I thought "Why d10S?, is he a Storyteller
System fan who bought one of those sets of dice from White Wolf?"

IF you don't mind shelling out a little, you can get a set of 16 FUDGE
dice for around \$12.

If you want to save the cash and use d10s as descibed, everything will
work functionally. The change in percentages is slight enough not to
mess up any game functions. I suggest printing the conversion table on
the character sheets to make it easier for the group to do the
conversions fast. For WoD fans, the big change will be oing from a two
state system (succeed/fail) to a three state one (+/0/-).

What you might want to do is DL FATE 2.0 and look at the alterante d6
method in the appendix. It uses muiltiple dice and if you up the
difficulties to match the change in die type you could roll and add up
the dice.

--- In FateRPG@yahoogroups.com, "hainted" <hainted@...> wrote:
>
> My group is heavy on D10s and WOD D10s especially.No reason other
> than Warhammer and WOD are the systems we use most.For some reason
> though while we can produce groups of D4s,D8s,and so forth only a
> couple of us have more than 2 or 3 D6s.
> --- In FateRPG@yahoogroups.com, "yasmine_bint_salim"
> <yasmine_bint_salim@> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FateRPG@yahoogroups.com, "hainted" <hainted@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Has anyone tried other types of dice for the system?I'm
> considering
> > > D10s with the following spread
> > > 1-3:Negative
> > > 4-7:Blank
> > > 8-0:Positive.
> > > Thoughts?
> > >
> >
> >
> > Well, you are weighting the table more towards zero. That'S okay if
> > you want to make the results less random.
> >
> > The downside is that it takes a bit longer to tally up the result
> than
> > with FUDGE dice. "+" "-" "0" "+" is eaiser and faster to tally up
> > than "8" "3" "7" "10".
> >
> > And this is all for the a 6.67% shift in the probabilties.
> >
>
• ... I m not a big Storyteller fan but a lot of my friends are.Actually I ve got 2 sets of dice and my wife one(all 3 come with 2 d10s but only 1 D6) and a
Message 12 of 14 , Sep 6, 2007
--- In FateRPG@yahoogroups.com, "yasmine_bint_salim"
<yasmine_bint_salim@...> wrote:
>
> LOL, when I read you post I thought "Why d10S?, is he a Storyteller
> System fan who bought one of those sets of dice from White Wolf?"
>
> IF you don't mind shelling out a little, you can get a set of 16 FUDGE
> dice for around \$12.

I'm not a big Storyteller fan but a lot of my friends are.Actually I've
got 2 sets of dice and my wife one(all 3 come with 2 d10s but only 1
D6) and a friend of mine gave me a set of the White Wolf Dice(Mortal I
think?)so I have 16 D10s and 3 D6s.
• ... Did you try using the percentile chart from the Fudge rules? We use that and the 3d6 one all the time. -- chuk
Message 13 of 14 , Sep 6, 2007
On Thu, Sep 06, 2007 at 08:38:20PM -0000, hainted wrote:
> --- In FateRPG@yahoogroups.com, "yasmine_bint_salim"
> <yasmine_bint_salim@...> wrote:
> >
> > LOL, when I read you post I thought "Why d10S?, is he a Storyteller
> > System fan who bought one of those sets of dice from White Wolf?"
> >
> > IF you don't mind shelling out a little, you can get a set of 16 FUDGE
> > dice for around \$12.
>
> I'm not a big Storyteller fan but a lot of my friends are.Actually I've
> got 2 sets of dice and my wife one(all 3 come with 2 d10s but only 1
> D6) and a friend of mine gave me a set of the White Wolf Dice(Mortal I
> think?)so I have 16 D10s and 3 D6s.

Did you try using the percentile chart from the Fudge rules? We use that
and the 3d6 one all the time.

--
chuk
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