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Re: [Fantasy_Books] Re: serious works of fantasy

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  • peta smith
    I apologise for mis-spelling your name Sidharam. Is that a male or female name? Does it have a meaning? I love fantasy. I love talking about my favourite
    Message 1 of 28 , Apr 3, 2001
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      I apologise for mis-spelling your name Sidharam. Is that a male or female
      name? Does it have a meaning?

      I love fantasy. I love talking about my favourite fantasy books and series,
      most of which probably lack literary value. What do you consider to be
      serious works of fantasy?

      Peta



      At 18:53 2/04/01 +0200, you wrote:
      >
      >
      >peta smith wrote:
      >
      >> At 22:48 1/04/01 +0200, you wrote:
      >> >
      >> I agree with Saidharam's points except for the one about not being able to
      >> analyse and discuss humorous books. Of course we can!
      >>
      >> Peta
      >
      >Heya.
      >
      >Well, technically speaking you can discuss humorous books, I agree. I just
      don't think that Pratchett's books have any literary value. When
      >Douglas Adams did it it was awe-striking. Because Douglas was original. He
      used literary devices never used before (such as describing
      >things by what they are not... eg. The ship rolled down the mountain like
      a dead bird wouldn't.) But Pratchett just copied his style of
      >writing and often even his jokes and ideas (I can provide specific
      examples if needed.) Pratchett's world is admirable, and I more than
      >once laughed my eyes out from his books, but I think they shouldn't be
      confused with serious works of fantasy. That may be just myself
      >though and if you disagree with me you probably have a point. *shrugs*. :)
      >
      >Oh, and about my name... Two of you (whom I've seen) have been spelling it
      wrong; I don't blame you - it's a teeth-breaker (or fingertip
      >breaker in this case). So just to clarify, it's Sidharam. Pronounces
      SHEE-ARAUM. It's Celtic if any of you are wondering. :)
      >
      >
      >Yours, Sidharam.
      >
      >--
      >The Religious Manifesto / Sidharam Drevekenin -
      http://www.themestream.com/articles/396258.html
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      >
      >
      >
    • MJ Dougherty
      ... Is there any such thing? Most of those grand epiciad-cycle-sagas seem to think they re serious works, but I find many of them pretentious more than
      Message 2 of 28 , Apr 3, 2001
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        >What do you consider to be
        > serious works of fantasy?

        Is there any such thing? Most of those grand epiciad-cycle-sagas seem to
        think they're serious works, but I find many of them pretentious more than
        anything else.

        Me, I write pulp trash adventure entertainment. And I'm proud of it. I read
        fiction for entertainment, not intellectual stimulation. For that I have a
        houseful of military history texts.....


        Regards


        Martin J Dougherty
        Author: Behind the Throne, The Eye of Glory
        www.highbridgepress.com
        www.fiction-fantasy.net
      • peta smith
        Military history texts for intellectual stimulation ... is that a non-sequitor or what (LOL!) Me, I prefer cryptic crosswords! Peta
        Message 3 of 28 , Apr 3, 2001
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          Military history texts for intellectual stimulation ... is that a
          non-sequitor or what (LOL!) Me, I prefer cryptic crosswords!


          Peta

          At 14:07 3/04/01 +0100, you wrote:
          >
          >
          >>What do you consider to be
          >> serious works of fantasy?
          >
          >Is there any such thing? Most of those grand epiciad-cycle-sagas seem to
          >think they're serious works, but I find many of them pretentious more than
          >anything else.
          >
          >Me, I write pulp trash adventure entertainment. And I'm proud of it. I read
          >fiction for entertainment, not intellectual stimulation. For that I have a
          >houseful of military history texts.....
          >
          >
          >Regards
          >
          >
          >Martin J Dougherty
          >Author: Behind the Throne, The Eye of Glory
          >www.highbridgepress.com
          >www.fiction-fantasy.net
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
          >
          >
        • MJ Dougherty
          ... A lot of really strange stuff happened in history. Stranger than fiction., for sure....
          Message 4 of 28 , Apr 3, 2001
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            >
            > Military history texts for intellectual stimulation ... is that a
            > non-sequitor or what (LOL!) Me, I prefer cryptic crosswords!

            A lot of really strange stuff happened in history. Stranger than fiction.,
            for sure....
          • Mark Colin Barltrop
            On Mon, 02 Apr 2001 18:53:43 +0200, Sidharam Drevekenin ... Please Do -- Mark Barltrop aka Tachyon (tachyon@tachyonuk.com) http://www.tachyonuk.com - ICQ
            Message 5 of 28 , Apr 3, 2001
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              On Mon, 02 Apr 2001 18:53:43 +0200, Sidharam Drevekenin
              <hurak@...> wrote:

              >When
              >Douglas Adams did it it was awe-striking. Because Douglas was original. He used literary devices never used before (such as describing
              >things by what they are not... eg. The ship rolled down the mountain like a dead bird wouldn't.) But Pratchett just copied his style of
              >writing and often even his jokes and ideas (I can provide specific examples if needed.

              Please Do
              --
              Mark Barltrop aka Tachyon (tachyon@...)
              http://www.tachyonuk.com - ICQ 13415498
              'When people were in trouble they went to a witch -
              Sometimes, of course, to say, 'Please stop doing it.' '
              (Terry Pratchett,'Carpe Jugulum')
            • Mark Colin Barltrop
              On Mon, 02 Apr 2001 02:49:09 -0000, Lysander (Dan) ... I can t see it being a problem - but the April date applies only to the US edition - the rest of the
              Message 6 of 28 , Apr 3, 2001
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                On Mon, 02 Apr 2001 02:49:09 -0000, "Lysander (Dan)"
                <dandean@...> wrote:

                >
                >Well, May would have really been a problem as short notice. I got the
                >April date from Amazon which kind of nulls that aspect.

                I can't see it being a problem - but the April date applies only to the
                US edition - the rest of the world will have to wait til May 1st..&
                maybe even later if the Australian experience last time is repeated.
                (My mistake was assuming that both editions were due out at the same
                time but checking on Amazon.com & .co.uk got me 2 different dates for 2
                different editions:-)
                --
                Mark Barltrop aka Tachyon (tachyon@...)
                http://www.tachyonuk.com - ICQ 13415498
                'When people were in trouble they went to a witch -
                Sometimes, of course, to say, 'Please stop doing it.' '
                (Terry Pratchett,'Carpe Jugulum')
              • Mark Colin Barltrop
                On Sun, 1 Apr 2001 18:59:45 -0400, Anastacia E. Zittel ... Then you might be interested to know I run a discussion list here on Yahoogroups dedicated to the
                Message 7 of 28 , Apr 3, 2001
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                  On Sun, 1 Apr 2001 18:59:45 -0400, "Anastacia E. Zittel"
                  <adultramblings@...> wrote:

                  >Ooooh, I have to agree with this one. I just started reading Pratchett -
                  > have read about 4 or 5 of his so far, and only know one person who
                  >is a Pratchett fan, my friend that got me into him.
                  > I'd welcome the opportunity to discuss his works.

                  Then you might be interested to know I run a discussion list here on
                  Yahoogroups dedicated to the Discworld books - to join just email
                  Disc-subscribe@yahoogroups.com or goto
                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Disc
                  --
                  Mark Barltrop aka Tachyon (tachyon@...)
                  http://www.tachyonuk.com - ICQ 13415498
                  'When people were in trouble they went to a witch -
                  Sometimes, of course, to say, 'Please stop doing it.' '
                  (Terry Pratchett,'Carpe Jugulum')
                • Sidharam Drevekenin
                  ... I replied to this question in a personal email but I ll repeat it briefly here. There are countless examples of exact jokes being copied and a handful of
                  Message 8 of 28 , Apr 3, 2001
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                    Mark Colin Barltrop wrote:

                    > On Mon, 02 Apr 2001 18:53:43 +0200, Sidharam Drevekenin
                    > <hurak@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > >When
                    > >Douglas Adams did it it was awe-striking. Because Douglas was original. He used literary devices never used before (such as describing
                    > >things by what they are not... eg. The ship rolled down the mountain like a dead bird wouldn't.) But Pratchett just copied his style of
                    > >writing and often even his jokes and ideas (I can provide specific examples if needed.
                    >
                    > Please Do

                    I replied to this question in a personal email but I'll repeat it briefly here. There are countless examples of exact jokes being copied and
                    a handful of concepts as well. I don't really have the strength to go over the Pratchett books I have and look for them again but you'll
                    have to trust me. Here I'll bring only one example of a joke, you may choose to see this as coinsidence and say that I'm only inventing the
                    other plagiarisms - feel free to do so. I'm much too lazy to fully prove my point. :)

                    The example I give is out of 'The Colour of Magic' when the camera creature sighs. The narration says that even though the creature doesn't
                    have a respiratory system, it had to sigh nonetheless because every intelligent creature does that from time to time.
                    This joke exactly appeared about fifteen years earlier in 'The Restaurant at the End of the Universe' by Douglas Adams, in the exact same
                    /wording/. It referred to a weighter-android at the restaurant after talking to Zaphod Beeblebrox.

                    A Pratchett fan once told me that he liked Pratchett better than Adams because Adams is truly insane, while Pratchett only tries to be
                    insane. That'll illustrate the plagiarism perfectly. :)


                    Yours, Sidharam.

                    --
                    The Religious Manifesto / Sidharam Drevekenin - http://www.themestream.com/articles/396258.html
                  • Mark Colin Barltrop
                    On Wed, 04 Apr 2001 00:29:13 +0200, Sidharam Drevekenin ... Ah - you have to bear in mind Colour was the very first Discworld book & was published way back in
                    Message 9 of 28 , Apr 5, 2001
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                      On Wed, 04 Apr 2001 00:29:13 +0200, Sidharam Drevekenin
                      <hurak@...> wrote:

                      >
                      >The example I give is out of 'The Colour of Magic' when the camera creature sighs.
                      >The narration says that even though the creature doesn't
                      >have a respiratory system, it had to sigh nonetheless because every intelligent creature does that from time to time.
                      >This joke exactly appeared about fifteen years earlier in
                      > 'The Restaurant at the End of the Universe' by Douglas Adams, in the exact same
                      >/wording/. It referred to a weighter-android at the restaurant after talking to Zaphod Beeblebrox.

                      Ah - you have to bear in mind Colour was the very first Discworld book
                      & was published way back in 1983 - (only 3 years after Restaurant)
                      At the time Adams was very big & its not surprising if some of Colour
                      seems reminiscent of HHGTTG. But 25 Disc novels later pTerry's style has
                      changed quite markedly. Less Adams kinda thing ( Zanyness & one line
                      jokes) rather more social commentary & clever writing

                      --
                      Mark Barltrop aka Tachyon (tachyon@...)
                      http://www.tachyonuk.com - ICQ 13415498
                      'When people were in trouble they went to a witch -
                      Sometimes, of course, to say, 'Please stop doing it.' '
                      (Terry Pratchett,'Carpe Jugulum')
                    • takhisis@oceanfree.net
                      You lucky git, I d kill for a trip to Sweden.... How long are you going for ?????, PS. I liked the Farseer Saga but found the ending very disappointing given
                      Message 10 of 28 , Apr 20, 2001
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                        You lucky git, I'd kill for a trip to Sweden.... How long are you
                        going for ?????, PS. I liked the Farseer Saga but found the ending
                        very disappointing given how great it was overall, but I don't want
                        to say anything specific and spoil the surprises for anyone. Regards
                        Eoin.

                        --- In Fantasy_Books@y..., "Lysander (Dan)" <dandean@o...> wrote:
                        > Yeah, you're right- I'll be skipping out on this month's book
                        because
                        > I already read Farseer Saga. Of course, I'll still join in on the
                        > discussion- I've read a lot of fantasy and this series is in my top
                        > three! You guys are in for a great read! I takes a few chapters to
                        > rev up, and then you have an amazing ride!
                        >
                        > I've got many other things I need to read in the meanwhile,
                        however,
                        > I might give it a reread down the line!
                        >
                        > > I'm very enthusiastic about this as well, and myself I'll be
                        > starting the book of this month as soon as I get it on my trip to
                        > Sweden next
                        > > week.
                        > >
                        > > I didn't mean to offend any Pratchett lovers, and I truly
                        apologize
                        > if I did. I love Pratchett myself, I just love him in a different
                        way,
                        > > that's all. :)
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Yours, Sidharam.
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > --
                        > > The Religious Manifesto / Sidharam Drevekenin -
                        > http://www.themestream.com/articles/396258.html
                      • Sidharam Drevekenin
                        ... It was just for a week, to visit family mostly. :) -- Like private parts are we to the Gods - they play with us for their sport!
                        Message 11 of 28 , Apr 21, 2001
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                          takhisis@... wrote:

                          > You lucky git, I'd kill for a trip to Sweden.... How long are you
                          > going for ?????, PS. I liked the Farseer Saga but found the ending
                          > very disappointing given how great it was overall, but I don't want
                          > to say anything specific and spoil the surprises for anyone. Regards
                          > Eoin.

                          It was just for a week, to visit family mostly. :)

                          --
                          "Like private parts are we to the Gods - they play with us for their sport!"
                          ---Lord Melchett, Black Adder II.
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