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Re: [Fantasy_Books] the most over done element of fantasy

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  • Sharon
    Very good summary of
    Message 1 of 27 , Mar 4, 2008
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      <<< One of the reasons I just loved *The Curse of Chalion* by Lois McMaster
      Bujold is because it WAS so fresh and imaginative. Bill >>>

      Very good summary of why I liked this series as well ...

      One of the things I really do get tired of in fantasy is the "quest" theme ... and with Chalion Bujold managed that (as well as all the other elements Bill mentions) very well by essentially breaking up the "quest" into more than one quest ... you sort of got two for the price of one kind of thing ... each for a different reason, but blended in so that it made sense in context.

      It does seem that fantasy is especially weighted with traditional paths and cliche ... quests, witches, elves, unwanted second-sons and so on. Fortunately for me, the books I like best are always character-driven, so if I really like the characters and if the author is good at making the characters very individual and memorable, then I can tolerate quite a lot of "tradition" in a book.

      I think my own personal "won't read/finish this book because-of" is the vampire issue ... it seems obligatory with most vampire tales now that the main female character has to be involved in a relationship with the vampire in a very graphic way that not only includes sex (which I certainly don't object to) but almost always seems to include sex which includes blood and violence (which I certainly DO object to) ...

      Sharon


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • William C. Garthright
      ... Likewise with Patricia Brigg s Dragon Bones and Dragon Blood, both of which I loved. Despite the titles, the dragon - just one - is only a minor part
      Message 2 of 27 , Mar 7, 2008
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        > I remember in the Devery universe when a dragon was brought in, I was like .. no here we go! But as I remember, the dragon wasn't too prominent, and she kept switching back to past lives, so it kept things somewhat interesting.
        >


        Likewise with Patricia Brigg's "Dragon Bones" and "Dragon Blood," both
        of which I loved. Despite the titles, the dragon - just one - is only a
        minor part of the story.

        Bill

        --
        Knowledge will forever govern ignorance; and people who mean to be their
        own governors must arm themselves with the power which knowledge gives.
        - President James Madison
      • William C. Garthright
        ... In the early 90 s, I was browsing in a bookstore and picked up a very garish, cheap-looking paperback. I can t imagine why I even looked further, let alone
        Message 3 of 27 , Mar 7, 2008
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          > I think my own personal "won't read/finish this book because-of" is the vampire issue ... it seems obligatory with most vampire tales now that the main female character has to be involved in a relationship with the vampire in a very graphic way that not only includes sex (which I certainly don't object to) but almost always seems to include sex which includes blood and violence (which I certainly DO object to) ...
          >


          In the early 90's, I was browsing in a bookstore and picked up a very
          garish, cheap-looking paperback. I can't imagine why I even looked
          further, let alone opened it to read the first page. I must have really
          been desperate for something to read! But it hooked me immediately
          (although I was half embarrassed to even buy the thing). That was
          Laurell K. Hamilton's "Guilty Pleasures," the first in her "Anita Blake,
          Vampire Hunter" series.

          It was clearly written for women, though that didn't bother me. And the
          blood and gore was so over-the-top that it was almost funny (there was a
          lot of humor in the book, along with the gore). I thought it was great
          fun, and quite original. (That might not actually be true, I don't know,
          but it was the first fantasy I'd read anything like that.) I enjoyed the
          sequels, too,... for awhile. Then they got too weird, even for me. Anita
          Blake switched from strenuously avoiding the sexual lure of all these
          male vampires and were creatures to the standard 'can't make up her mind
          about all these gorgeous boyfriends' type. For a male reader, anyway,
          that got old fast.

          I don't know if her books were the start of all these sex, blood, and
          vampires stories or not, but it was a fresh idea (to me) when I started
          reading them. (Note that I've never read anything by Anne Rice, since I
          don't read bestsellers. Maybe that was the start?) Now, it's anything
          but fresh. And even Patricia Briggs, whom I really like, has jumped on
          the bandwagon with her "Moon Called" and "Blood Bound." The later book,
          in particular, is WAY too similar to Laurell K. Hamilton's, complete
          with the multiple gorgeous boyfriends bit that I disliked in the first
          series.

          I suppose it's hard to be original, but honestly, why write a duplicate
          of someone else's fantasy? Authors almost always continue a series far,
          far too long,... and then to have copy-cats join them is really too much.

          Bill

          --
          The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if
          there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil and no good, nothing
          but blind, pitiless indifference. - Richard Dawkins
        • Katherine Hooper
          Bill, I think you are right that LKH started the sleazy vampire stuff (see John s reviews here - he says the same thing you do: started off great, then went
          Message 4 of 27 , Mar 7, 2008
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            Bill,

            I think you are right that LKH started the sleazy vampire stuff (see John's
            reviews here - he says the same thing you do: started off great, then went
            bad: http://www.fantasyliterature.net/hamiltonlaurellk.html)

            I think you're also right that Anne Rice popularized vampires, but her work
            is much different. We are still working on these reviews - I don't have them
            all up yet: http://www.fantasyliterature.net/riceanne.html

            I have Anne Rice in my TBR pile, but not LKH.

            Kat


            www.FantasyLiterature.net
            www.FanLit.net

            _____

            From: Fantasy_Books@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Fantasy_Books@yahoogroups.com]
            On Behalf Of William C. Garthright
            Sent: Friday, March 07, 2008 3:58 PM
            To: Fantasy_Books@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [Fantasy_Books] the most over done element of fantasy


            > I think my own personal "won't read/finish this book because-of" is the
            vampire issue ... it seems obligatory with most vampire tales now that the
            main female character has to be involved in a relationship with the vampire
            in a very graphic way that not only includes sex (which I certainly don't
            object to) but almost always seems to include sex which includes blood and
            violence (which I certainly DO object to) ...
            >

            In the early 90's, I was browsing in a bookstore and picked up a very
            garish, cheap-looking paperback. I can't imagine why I even looked
            further, let alone opened it to read the first page. I must have really
            been desperate for something to read! But it hooked me immediately
            (although I was half embarrassed to even buy the thing). That was
            Laurell K. Hamilton's "Guilty Pleasures," the first in her "Anita Blake,
            Vampire Hunter" series.

            It was clearly written for women, though that didn't bother me. And the
            blood and gore was so over-the-top that it was almost funny (there was a
            lot of humor in the book, along with the gore). I thought it was great
            fun, and quite original. (That might not actually be true, I don't know,
            but it was the first fantasy I'd read anything like that.) I enjoyed the
            sequels, too,... for awhile. Then they got too weird, even for me. Anita
            Blake switched from strenuously avoiding the sexual lure of all these
            male vampires and were creatures to the standard 'can't make up her mind
            about all these gorgeous boyfriends' type. For a male reader, anyway,
            that got old fast.

            I don't know if her books were the start of all these sex, blood, and
            vampires stories or not, but it was a fresh idea (to me) when I started
            reading them. (Note that I've never read anything by Anne Rice, since I
            don't read bestsellers. Maybe that was the start?) Now, it's anything
            but fresh. And even Patricia Briggs, whom I really like, has jumped on
            the bandwagon with her "Moon Called" and "Blood Bound." The later book,
            in particular, is WAY too similar to Laurell K. Hamilton's, complete
            with the multiple gorgeous boyfriends bit that I disliked in the first
            series.

            I suppose it's hard to be original, but honestly, why write a duplicate
            of someone else's fantasy? Authors almost always continue a series far,
            far too long,... and then to have copy-cats join them is really too much.

            Bill

            --
            The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if
            there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil and no good, nothing
            but blind, pitiless indifference. - Richard Dawkins



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • ethiercn@aol.com
            Female readers too. I think the re-hashing is because it makes money. And Hamilton helped the popularity. She borrowed from other writers such as Huff and
            Message 5 of 27 , Mar 7, 2008
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              Female readers too.

              I think the re-hashing is because it makes money. And Hamilton helped the
              popularity. She borrowed from other writers such as Huff and Lackey (she
              really borrowed from Lackey).

              I stopped reading Charline Harris' Dead in Dixie because the plots were too
              much like the Blake series. I still read Kelley Armstrong and Kim Harrison.
              HArrison because of the humor; Armstrong because I like the characters.

              Chris


              In a message dated 3/7/2008 3:58:29 PM Eastern Standard Time,
              billg@... writes:

              It was clearly written for women, though that didn't bother me. And the
              blood and gore was so over-the-top that it was almost funny (there was a
              lot of humor in the book, along with the gore). I thought it was great
              fun, and quite original. (That might not actually be true, I don't know,
              but it was the first fantasy I'd read anything like that.) I enjoyed the
              sequels, too,... for awhile. Then they got too weird, even for me. Anita
              Blake switched from strenuously avoiding the sexual lure of all these
              male vampires and were creatures to the standard 'can't make up her mind
              about all these gorgeous boyfriends' type. For a male reader, anyway,
              that got old fast.






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            • Sharon
              I haven t read any of the Anne Rice books that I can recall ... LKH is impossible for me ... and I tried the Charlaine Harris Dead series ... which pretty
              Message 6 of 27 , Mar 7, 2008
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                I haven't read any of the Anne Rice books that I can recall ... LKH is impossible for me ... and I tried the Charlaine Harris "Dead" series ... which pretty much followed the pattern of the LKH books, so that didn't work for me.

                The two books with heroine/vampire situations that did NOT involve sleazy blood/pain/sex stuff, which is probably one major reason I did like them, was Robin McKinley's book "Sunshine" and one of the Mercedes Lackey's Diana Tregarde series. There just seems to be a very small number of authors who are able to find some way to present vampires and/or relationships with vampires without resorting to the sleaze, though I do wish there were more of them.

                Sharon

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • William C. Garthright
                ... He s probably a little harsher on them than I would be, but in general, I agree with his complaints. I kept reading them for quite awhile, but the quality
                Message 7 of 27 , Mar 7, 2008
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                  > I think you are right that LKH started the sleazy vampire stuff (see John's reviews here - he says the same thing you do: started off great, then went bad: http://www.fantasyliterature.net/hamiltonlaurellk.html)
                  >


                  He's probably a little harsher on them than I would be, but in general,
                  I agree with his complaints. I kept reading them for quite awhile, but
                  the quality really dropped off. The first ones were very entertaining,
                  though.

                  Bill

                  --
                  When a whole nation is roaring Patriotism at the top of its voice, I am
                  fain to explore the cleanness of its hands and purity of its heart. -
                  Ralph Waldo Emerson
                • robina_williams
                  ... sleazy blood/pain/sex stuff, which is probably one major reason I did like them, was Robin McKinley s book Sunshine and one of the Mercedes Lackey s
                  Message 8 of 27 , Mar 7, 2008
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                    --- In Fantasy_Books@yahoogroups.com, "Sharon" <sportpony@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > The two books with heroine/vampire situations that did NOT involve
                    sleazy blood/pain/sex stuff, which is probably one major reason I did
                    like them, was Robin McKinley's book "Sunshine" and one of the Mercedes
                    Lackey's Diana Tregarde series.

                    I, too, enjoyed reading "Sunshine" -- I think it's a great book. An
                    exciting storyline, lively and realistic characters, and an unusual
                    setting. Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be a sequel in the making.

                    Robina ~ www.robinawilliams.com
                    Angelos, available now from Amazon.com
                    http://www.sff.net/people/robina-williams/
                  • Peta Smith
                    I like to WATCH my vampires - I was an avid Buffy and Angel fan and enjoy the new (in Australia) Moonlight television series and before that Forever Knight. I
                    Message 9 of 27 , Mar 8, 2008
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                      I like to WATCH my vampires - I was an avid Buffy and Angel fan and enjoy
                      the new (in Australia) Moonlight television series and before that Forever
                      Knight. I don't pick up vampire books at all. (Except I did read one by
                      George RR Martin by mistake once but I've even forgotten its name!!)
                      Cheers, Peta


                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "Sharon" <sportpony@...>
                      To: <Fantasy_Books@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2008 8:01 AM
                      Subject: Re: [Fantasy_Books] the most over done element of fantasy


                      >I haven't read any of the Anne Rice books that I can recall ... LKH is
                      >impossible for me ... and I tried the Charlaine Harris "Dead" series ...
                      >which pretty much followed the pattern of the LKH books, so that didn't
                      >work for me.
                      >
                      > The two books with heroine/vampire situations that did NOT involve sleazy
                      > blood/pain/sex stuff, which is probably one major reason I did like them,
                      > was Robin McKinley's book "Sunshine" and one of the Mercedes Lackey's
                      > Diana Tregarde series. There just seems to be a very small number of
                      > authors who are able to find some way to present vampires and/or
                      > relationships with vampires without resorting to the sleaze, though I do
                      > wish there were more of them.
                      >
                      > Sharon
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > --
                      > No virus found in this incoming message.
                      > Checked by AVG.
                      > Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.6/1318 - Release Date: 7/03/2008
                      > 2:01 PM
                      >
                      >
                    • Sharon
                      Message 10 of 27 , Mar 8, 2008
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                        <<< Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be a sequel in the making. Robina ~


                        I thought the ending might have set things up for a sequel too ... at least, like you, I hoped! She is one of the writers that I really do wish would A) write more and faster and B) would do sequels or series ... but after all these years I think she is set in her ways. The closest she has ever done to a sequel was the "prequel" to "The Blue Sword" when she did "The Hero and the Crown". And I always hoped she would do a sequel to "The Blue Sword" with the children grown ...

                        Sharon

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Richard Claypool
                        I really need to read the Hero and the Crown. I read the Blue Sword when I was young, and after lotr, that was my 2nd fantasy. At the time, I had no name for
                        Message 11 of 27 , Mar 8, 2008
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                          I really need to read the Hero and the Crown. I read the Blue Sword when I
                          was young, and after lotr, that was my 2nd fantasy. At the time, I had no
                          name for the style of writing. It wasn't until I met Melissa that I knew
                          what the style of lit was called. So, the Blue Sword has a very special
                          place in my heart.


                          Ôà
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: "Sharon" <sportpony@...>
                          To: <Fantasy_Books@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2008 5:59 AM
                          Subject: Re: [Fantasy_Books] Re: the most over done element of fantasy


                          > <<< Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be a sequel in the making. Robina
                          > ~
                          >
                          >
                          > I thought the ending might have set things up for a sequel too ... at
                          > least, like you, I hoped! She is one of the writers that I really do wish
                          > would A) write more and faster and B) would do sequels or series ... but
                          > after all these years I think she is set in her ways. The closest she has
                          > ever done to a sequel was the "prequel" to "The Blue Sword" when she did
                          > "The Hero and the Crown". And I always hoped she would do a sequel to "The
                          > Blue Sword" with the children grown ...
                          >
                          > Sharon
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                          >
                        • Richard Claypool
                          Hi, The vampires in Rice s universe can t have sex, they re more centual than sexual. Now Hammelton has this other series out where this Princes of the farries
                          Message 12 of 27 , Mar 8, 2008
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                            Hi,

                            The vampires in Rice's universe can't have sex, they're more centual than
                            sexual.

                            Now Hammelton has this other series out where this Princes of the farries
                            has to bang all these other farries and whomever gets her knocked up, will
                            be king or something. I probally have the entire premise wrong, but I know
                            she has to bang all these different farries. In the real world, she was a
                            psychic detective or something. I remember reading one of the books, but it
                            was just so over the top that the only thing i remember is this bottemless
                            abbis into which unesirables are tossed. I also remember this one dude who
                            had all these tenticles around his middle .. ugg ug ug ag.

                            Having a head trama when I was twenty has made my memory not as good as it
                            once was, and in some cases, that's a blessing.
                            Ôà
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: "William C. Garthright" <billg@...>
                            To: <Fantasy_Books@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Friday, March 07, 2008 3:57 PM
                            Subject: Re: [Fantasy_Books] the most over done element of fantasy


                            >
                            >> I think my own personal "won't read/finish this book because-of" is the
                            >> vampire issue ... it seems obligatory with most vampire tales now that
                            >> the main female character has to be involved in a relationship with the
                            >> vampire in a very graphic way that not only includes sex (which I
                            >> certainly don't object to) but almost always seems to include sex which
                            >> includes blood and violence (which I certainly DO object to) ...
                            >>
                            >
                            >
                            > In the early 90's, I was browsing in a bookstore and picked up a very
                            > garish, cheap-looking paperback. I can't imagine why I even looked
                            > further, let alone opened it to read the first page. I must have really
                            > been desperate for something to read! But it hooked me immediately
                            > (although I was half embarrassed to even buy the thing). That was
                            > Laurell K. Hamilton's "Guilty Pleasures," the first in her "Anita Blake,
                            > Vampire Hunter" series.
                            >
                            > It was clearly written for women, though that didn't bother me. And the
                            > blood and gore was so over-the-top that it was almost funny (there was a
                            > lot of humor in the book, along with the gore). I thought it was great
                            > fun, and quite original. (That might not actually be true, I don't know,
                            > but it was the first fantasy I'd read anything like that.) I enjoyed the
                            > sequels, too,... for awhile. Then they got too weird, even for me. Anita
                            > Blake switched from strenuously avoiding the sexual lure of all these
                            > male vampires and were creatures to the standard 'can't make up her mind
                            > about all these gorgeous boyfriends' type. For a male reader, anyway,
                            > that got old fast.
                            >
                            > I don't know if her books were the start of all these sex, blood, and
                            > vampires stories or not, but it was a fresh idea (to me) when I started
                            > reading them. (Note that I've never read anything by Anne Rice, since I
                            > don't read bestsellers. Maybe that was the start?) Now, it's anything
                            > but fresh. And even Patricia Briggs, whom I really like, has jumped on
                            > the bandwagon with her "Moon Called" and "Blood Bound." The later book,
                            > in particular, is WAY too similar to Laurell K. Hamilton's, complete
                            > with the multiple gorgeous boyfriends bit that I disliked in the first
                            > series.
                            >
                            > I suppose it's hard to be original, but honestly, why write a duplicate
                            > of someone else's fantasy? Authors almost always continue a series far,
                            > far too long,... and then to have copy-cats join them is really too much.
                            >
                            > Bill
                            >
                            > --
                            > The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if
                            > there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil and no good, nothing
                            > but blind, pitiless indifference. - Richard Dawkins
                            >
                          • William C. Garthright
                            ... Yeah, I heard that. It sounded like the trashiest, most worthless excuse for a plot that I could ever imagine. Frankly, as bad as her later Anita Blake
                            Message 13 of 27 , Mar 8, 2008
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                              > Now Hamilton has this other series out where this Princess of the fairies has to bang all these other fairies and whoever gets her knocked up, will be king or something.


                              Yeah, I heard that. It sounded like the trashiest, most worthless excuse
                              for a plot that I could ever imagine. Frankly, as bad as her later Anita
                              Blake series got, this one sounded like it started off even worse. What
                              a disappointment, since she can really write when she wants.

                              Admittedly, I haven't read this series. I'm just going by the
                              descriptions I've heard. So I can't really say, I guess.

                              Bill

                              --
                              I will not throttle my criticisms of the despicable gang of
                              anti-intellectuals who run this country because it might irritate all
                              those millions of people who voted for George W. Bush; they were wrong
                              and he is wrong and it is my responsibility as a scientist to oppose
                              ignorance, especially ignorance that has power and influence. - PZ Myers
                            • Dawn
                              ... Frankly, as bad as her later Anita ... What ... I have not read the fae series by Hamilton and will not. A friend of mine here has read it and she said
                              Message 14 of 27 , Mar 10, 2008
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                                --- In Fantasy_Books@yahoogroups.com, "William C. Garthright"
                                <billg@...> wrote:
                                >
                                >
                                Frankly, as bad as her later Anita
                                > Blake series got, this one sounded like it started off even worse.
                                What
                                > a disappointment, since she can really write when she wants.
                                >
                                >
                                > Bill
                                >
                                > --


                                I have not read the fae series by Hamilton and will not. A friend of
                                mine here has read it and she said that it is definitely mis-shelved
                                as fantasy -- it should be shelved as "adult fantasy" as it is
                                nothing more nor less than very lightly camouflaged porn. She said
                                it is WORSE than the later Anita Blake books.

                                Now. Having said that, I have to say that there is a lot to be said
                                for a good editor. Laurell K. Hamilton had a wonderful editor for
                                the first 6 or 7 of the Anita Blake books. From what I understand,
                                this editor that the used to have suffered a closed head injury and
                                had to stop working. The new editor (and I'm sure someone higher up
                                at Del Rey or wherever she publishes out of) decided that the books
                                had to get "edgier." The first book published after the new editor
                                took her hand to the book was nearly unreadable. Not because of the
                                sex scenes, but because the plot was so chopped up it was almost
                                impossible to follow. After that, came what I like to call Anita
                                Blake's evil twin, as it certainly isn't the vampire hunter I had
                                come to know.

                                Apparently, "edgier" means more sex and less plot and lets give our
                                main character a whole new personality so no one recognizes her.

                                Dawn
                                The Cynic
                              • ethiercn@aol.com
                                I ve always wondered if the edgier wasn t a result of the Kushiel Series. The first book in that series came out a year before Narciuss in Chains (the
                                Message 15 of 27 , Mar 10, 2008
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                                  I've always wondered if the "edgier" wasn't a result of the Kushiel Series.
                                  The first book in that series came out a year before Narciuss in Chains (the
                                  first really bad Anita Blake novel for me. Not that Blue Moon was all that
                                  good, but Obsian Butterfly was good). The Kushiel Series makes use of sex
                                  and was popular. I always wondered if the drastic change didn't have something
                                  to do with that.

                                  Chris


                                  In a message dated 3/10/2008 2:10:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
                                  cyfarwedd2000@... writes:

                                  Now. Having said that, I have to say that there is a lot to be said
                                  for a good editor. Laurell K. Hamilton had a wonderful editor for
                                  the first 6 or 7 of the Anita Blake books. From what I understand,
                                  this editor that the used to have suffered a closed head injury and
                                  had to stop working. The new editor (and I'm sure someone higher up
                                  at Del Rey or wherever she publishes out of) decided that the books
                                  had to get "edgier." The first book published after the new editor
                                  took her hand to the book was nearly unreadable. Not because of the
                                  sex scenes, but because the plot was so chopped up it was almost
                                  impossible to follow. After that, came what I like to call Anita
                                  Blake's evil twin, as it certainly isn't the vampire hunter I had
                                  come to know.

                                  Apparently, "edgier" means more sex and less plot and lets give our
                                  main character a whole new personality so no one recognizes her.

                                  Dawn
                                  The Cynic








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                                • volkerthemadfiddler
                                  ... when you see it coming you want to rip your hair out, and scream! ... Elves. But seriously, I really am disliking magic that simply is- rather than
                                  Message 16 of 27 , Mar 12, 2008
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                                    --- In Fantasy_Books@yahoogroups.com, "William C. Garthright"
                                    <billg@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > > what one thing or creature in fantasy has been done so often that
                                    when you see it coming you want to rip your hair out, and scream!
                                    > >
                                    >
                                    Elves. But seriously, I really am disliking magic that simply is-
                                    rather than something that must be earned and entails a sacrifice of
                                    some sort.

                                    Volker the Mad Fiddler
                                  • Richard Claypool
                                    I m tired of the people who are going to take over the world and plunge the world into eternal darkness. Some elves i don t mind, the elves from deverry for
                                    Message 17 of 27 , Mar 12, 2008
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                                      I'm tired of the people who are going to take over the world and plunge the
                                      world into eternal darkness.

                                      Some elves i don't mind, the elves from deverry for example.
                                      Ôà
                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                      From: "volkerthemadfiddler" <garkutch@...>
                                      To: <Fantasy_Books@yahoogroups.com>
                                      Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 9:07 PM
                                      Subject: [Fantasy_Books] Re: the most over done element of fantasy


                                      --- In Fantasy_Books@yahoogroups.com, "William C. Garthright"
                                      <billg@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > > what one thing or creature in fantasy has been done so often that
                                      when you see it coming you want to rip your hair out, and scream!
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      Elves. But seriously, I really am disliking magic that simply is-
                                      rather than something that must be earned and entails a sacrifice of
                                      some sort.

                                      Volker the Mad Fiddler
                                    • darkomik772000
                                      ... plunge the ... Personally, I get tired of reading about the countless attempts at taking over the world to plunge into eternal darkness, just to constantly
                                      Message 18 of 27 , Mar 13, 2008
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                                        --- In Fantasy_Books@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Claypool"
                                        <bellevue.bat@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > I'm tired of the people who are going to take over the world and
                                        plunge the
                                        > world into eternal darkness.
                                        >
                                        Personally, I get tired of reading about the countless attempts at
                                        taking over the world to plunge into eternal darkness, just to
                                        constantly fail at it. Every time, I read that, I'd yell: Take over
                                        the world already and be happy with it. Why they keep failing to do
                                        so? If I were to write about a hostile world take-over, I'd do it in a
                                        twelve page short story. Not gonna bother to write a 5k page novel to
                                        do it.
                                      • Richard Claypool
                                        amen! Ôà ... From: darkomik772000 To: Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2008 3:19 AM Subject:
                                        Message 19 of 27 , Mar 13, 2008
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                                          amen!
                                          Ôà
                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                          From: "darkomik772000" <karellan@...>
                                          To: <Fantasy_Books@yahoogroups.com>
                                          Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2008 3:19 AM
                                          Subject: [Fantasy_Books] Re: the most over done element of fantasy


                                          --- In Fantasy_Books@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Claypool"
                                          <bellevue.bat@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > I'm tired of the people who are going to take over the world and
                                          plunge the
                                          > world into eternal darkness.
                                          >
                                          Personally, I get tired of reading about the countless attempts at
                                          taking over the world to plunge into eternal darkness, just to
                                          constantly fail at it. Every time, I read that, I'd yell: Take over
                                          the world already and be happy with it. Why they keep failing to do
                                          so? If I were to write about a hostile world take-over, I'd do it in a
                                          twelve page short story. Not gonna bother to write a 5k page novel to
                                          do it.
                                        • ethiercn@aol.com
                                          And with those stories there is always a bad guy who is wonderfully great until he meets the good guy and then he gets dumb. I actually would really like to
                                          Message 20 of 27 , Mar 13, 2008
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                                            And with those stories there is always a bad guy who is wonderfully great
                                            until he meets the good guy and then he gets dumb.

                                            I actually would really like to see some more books were the chosen one is
                                            female.

                                            Chris


                                            In a message dated 3/13/2008 3:19:49 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
                                            karellan@... writes:


                                            Personally, I get tired of reading about the countless attempts at
                                            taking over the world to plunge into eternal darkness, just to
                                            constantly fail at it. Every time, I read that, I'd yell: Take over
                                            the world already and be happy with it. Why they keep failing to do
                                            so? If I were to write about a hostile world take-over, I'd do it in a
                                            twelve page short story. Not gonna bother to write a 5k page novel to
                                            do it.








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