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Re: Y MWI?

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  • Elliot Temple
    ... This depends on who s right. The quoted sentence serves not to beg the question, but to help express a position. ... This disagreement would be clearer
    Message 1 of 80 , Nov 30, 2007
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      On Nov 30, 2007, at 1:25 AM, Bill Taylor wrote:

      > Just some briefest responses to most of this:-
      >
      >>> Now, the thing about this conventional wisdom, is that it's wrong.
      >
      > Wrong.

      This depends on who's right. The quoted sentence serves not to beg the
      question, but to help express a position.

      >
      >
      >>> It isn't reasonable to separate the "interpretation" part from the
      >>> math,
      >
      > Wrong.

      This disagreement would be clearer with elaboration. Why is separating
      interpretation and math a good idea in physics? (Independent of
      whether MWI is correct.)

      >
      >
      >>> it isn't reasonable to make up whatever imaginative picture you
      >>> want.
      >
      > Right.
      >
      >>> We know certain facts about what exists,
      >
      > Not really.

      My statement means, "We have knowledge (about reality)." Do you
      disagree with that? I'd love to hear why.

      >
      >
      >>> and what doesn't,
      >
      > Sometimes.

      A claim that we know "certain" facts and not "all" facts already
      implies that we only sometimes know what doesn't exist.

      >
      >
      >>> and one way of expressing them is mathematically.
      >
      > Right.
      >
      >>> This knowledge can also be expressed in English.
      >
      > Barely.

      Saying MWI barely expresses reality would technically concede the
      point at issue -- MWI may only be barely good enough, but it is
      successful.

      However, the intended point appears to be to say that MWI's expression
      of reality is bad. If so, that is a claim that could do with
      elaboration of the flaws in MWI being alluded to.

      >
      >
      >>> The way of doing so is called "the multiworlds interpretation".
      >
      > And BTW, it is *a* way, not *the* way.

      Whether it is "a" or "the" way is one of the things at issue, not a
      mistake in the post.



      -- Elliot Temple
      http://curi.us/
    • Alan Forrester
      ... Physical reality as a whole is the quantum state according to the MWI. If you mean how do parallel universes emerge from the quantum state then the answer
      Message 80 of 80 , Dec 11, 2007
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        --- inntranz <inntranz@...> wrote:


        > Regarding the use of the term computationalism in relation to
        > physics, Chalmers' "hard problem" of consciousness is well known, but
        > doesn't the MWI pose a similar "hard problem" about how physical
        > reality can emerge from the quantum state?
        > And is computationalism a possible answer to both?
        > (Neither of these are rhetorical questions - I would really like to
        > know.)

        Physical reality as a whole is the quantum state according to the MWI. If
        you mean how do parallel universes emerge from the quantum state then the
        answer to that is decoherence. Interference relies on the fact that the
        particle doing the interference is in a state such that it exists in
        multiple versions relative to the measuring apparatus until the end of the
        experiment in the universe where the experiment is being done. If the
        particle gets measured then in a particular universe it is present only in
        the version that corresponds to the measuring result and so it can't
        interfere. Large objects like people get measured on time scales much
        shorter than the time scales over which they undergo significant change and
        so we see little evidence of the existence of multiple versions of people
        even though they must exist.

        See

        http://arxiv.org/abs/quant-ph/0306072

        Alan


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