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Re: [FT897] Hf wire and noise

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  • Ryan Adams
    Hi I ve managed to get a few contacts on 10m when it was open and they were clear 20m is not to bad either I currently have no earthing setup on my rig and atu
    Message 1 of 21 , Jul 24, 2013
      Hi

      I've managed to get a few contacts on 10m when it was open and they were clear 20m is not to bad either

      I currently have no earthing setup on my rig and atu as my yard is concrete what can I use to earth the setup?

      Thanks

      On 24 Jul 2013, at 04:20, Alex Netherton <anetherton@...> wrote:

      > This time of year that is sort of the norm in the northern hemisphere on 80
      > and 40 at least. Horizontal polarization makes it worse I am suspecting.
      > Kc4bo Alex
      > On Jul 23, 2013 10:45 PM, "Ryan Adams" <rluk82@...> wrote:
      >
      >> **
      >>
      >>
      >> Hi
      >>
      >> I have a end fed hf 80-10 wire with my 897 and ldg897 tuner
      >>
      >> But when I tune I'm getting a lot of s8/9 and above white noise
      >>
      >> Is there anything I can do to reduce this?
      >>
      >> Thanks very much
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
    • Ryan Adams
      My computer was making slight noise that s next to rig put ferrite rings on but it makes no difference I have no grounding yet as I have a concrete yard and
      Message 2 of 21 , Jul 24, 2013
        My computer was making slight noise that's next to rig put ferrite rings on but it makes no difference

        I have no grounding yet as I have a concrete yard and looking for best ways to achieve this

        There is telephone cables quite near on a mast that may cause issues

        Noise seems to die down a bit at night

        Thanks very much

        On 24 Jul 2013, at 17:43, John Allen <john_n9yq@...> wrote:

        > Sounds like its time to grab the ole "AM" radio and walk around the house/neighborhood to find your noise.
        >
        > 73
        > John
        > N9YQ
        >
        > ________________________________
        > From: Dennis <n8bmb1@...>
        > To: FT897@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2013 9:31 AM
        > Subject: Re: [FT897] Hf wire and noise
        >
        >
        > Horizontal polarization is less susceptible to noise than vertical
        > antennas are, at least man-made noise. That may not be the issue. When
        > dealing with noise, there are ALL SORTS of possibilities, but as was
        > aforementioned, try turning off all those appliances around you first,
        > and also be aware that different seasons have different effects on HF.
        > Being in the city as opposed to a rural area, of course makes a
        > difference as well. Your neighbors could also be contributing and not
        > know it, as could the utilities. Like I said, there are ALL SORTS of
        > possible sources, it could take a while to track them all down.
        >
        > Dennis - N8BMB
        > On 7/23/2013 23:20, Alex Netherton wrote:
        > > This time of year that is sort of the norm in the northern hemisphere on 80
        > > and 40 at least. Horizontal polarization makes it worse I am suspecting.
        > > Kc4bo Alex
        > > On Jul 23, 2013 10:45 PM, "Ryan Adams" <mailto:rluk82%40yahoo.com> wrote:
        > >
        > >> **
        > >>
        > >>
        > >> Hi
        > >>
        > >> I have a end fed hf 80-10 wire with my 897 and ldg897 tuner
        > >>
        > >> But when I tune I'm getting a lot of s8/9 and above white noise
        > >>
        > >> Is there anything I can do to reduce this?
        > >>
        > >> Thanks very much
        > >>
        > >>
        > >
        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > ------------------------------------
        > >
        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • f5pbg@free.fr
        ... I have less noise with my antenna that you can see on www.qrz.com than with an horizontal antenna... The coupling between two wiresis greater if they are
        Message 3 of 21 , Jul 24, 2013
          Le 24/07/2013 16:31, Dennis a écrit :
          > Horizontal polarization is less susceptible to noise than vertical
          > antennas are, at least man-made noise
          I have less noise with my antenna that you can see on
          www.qrz.com than with an horizontal antenna...

          The coupling between two wiresis greater if they are parallel
          and i checked this in my house.

          So test by yourself...

          Best regards,
          Ludovic - F5PBG.


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Ryan Adams
          Hi I can hear some signals and have managed a few contacts in 10m the noise seems to get better at night Thanks ... [Non-text portions of this message have
          Message 4 of 21 , Jul 24, 2013
            Hi

            I can hear some signals and have managed a few contacts in 10m the noise seems to get better at night

            Thanks

            On 24 Jul 2013, at 18:55, Joel <hiqual@...> wrote:

            > S8 background noise? That's what I have on my 60 Meter full wave
            > horizontal loop right now on 20M. If I had
            > S0 noise I would think that the antenna was unplugged or the Rx was
            > broke. FYI I am on 4 acres
            > semi rural. You think the HV power lines about 700 feet away have
            > something to do with it?
            >
            > So much for loops being quiet. However, my Fan dipole can have a S1 or
            > 0 noise on a band and
            > I switch to the loop and can get a S6 - 8, sometimes lower depending on
            > condx. The thing is that the signal levels are higher on the
            > received signal ( S/N better ) so even with the high meter reading on
            > the noise on the loop - the
            > signals are more readable as they are stronger - sometimes by as much as
            > 4 s units. So in my case the
            > noise is just an annoyance - if I can hear stations and work them, the
            > noise level on the S meter is a moot point to me.
            >
            > I had an end fed 250' wire last year I put up for 160M - the noise was
            > unbearable on 160M and I could barely hear
            > anyone but it could xmit OK, I would receive on the dipole and xmit on
            > the wire since I could not load up the fan dipole with only 80M elements
            > as the lowest freq.
            >
            > I guess I would ask - can you hear any signals or is the noise covering
            > them up?
            >
            > 73
            > Joel
            > KQØJ
            >
            > On 7/24/2013 12:29 PM, Ken wrote:
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > --- In FT897@yahoogroups.com <mailto:FT897%40yahoogroups.com>, Ryan
            > > Adams <rluk82@...> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > Hi
            > > >
            > > > I have a end fed hf 80-10 wire with my 897 and ldg897 tuner
            > > >
            > > > But when I tune I'm getting a lot of s8/9 and above white noise
            > > >
            > > > Is there anything I can do to reduce this?
            > > >
            > > > Thanks very much
            > > >
            > > There are so many possible causes for noise on HF, it's hard to find
            > > without research.
            > > Is it still there when you disconnect the antenna at the radio ?
            > > Does it change in wet/dry weather or anytime ?
            > > Do you live by a 500kv power line ?
            > > Is it caused by your own home ?
            > > White noise doesn't describe anything.
            > > Noise on each HF band is very different.
            > >
            > > Ken
            > > W2BDP
            > > Brighton, CO
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > No virus found in this message.
            > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
            > > Version: 2012.0.2242 / Virus Database: 3204/6016 - Release Date: 07/24/13
            > >
            >
            > --
            > KQØJ
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • borgia.stick
            I know there have been several replies from folks much more experienced than I, but I chanced on something last night that might help. Do you have a computer
            Message 5 of 21 , Jul 25, 2013
              I know there have been several replies from folks much more experienced than I, but I chanced on something last night that might help.

              Do you have a computer in your room/shack that is on while you operate? If so, that just might be the source of some of your noise. I had been experiencing a lot of noise as have you. I operate in a room with my computer so I can keep QSO Maps on the monitor to see where there might be some action. I know my monitor gives me trouble with my HT, so I had a thought: I turned the monitor OFF (left the computer on) and a lot of my noise went away. Turning the computer off got rid of some more noise.

              So, something for you to consider.

              Jim
              W7JCL

              --- In FT897@yahoogroups.com, Ryan Adams <rluk82@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hi
              >
              > I have a end fed hf 80-10 wire with my 897 and ldg897 tuner
              >
              > But when I tune I'm getting a lot of s8/9 and above white noise
              >
              > Is there anything I can do to reduce this?
              >
              > Thanks very much
              >
            • Ryan Adams
              Hi him yes I do and when it s off noise does drop I have ferrite rings on to Still can t trace the noise though still looking ... [Non-text portions of this
              Message 6 of 21 , Jul 25, 2013
                Hi him yes I do and when it's off noise does drop I have ferrite rings on to

                Still can't trace the noise though still looking

                On 25 Jul 2013, at 19:30, "borgia.stick" <borgia.stick@...> wrote:

                > I know there have been several replies from folks much more experienced than I, but I chanced on something last night that might help.
                >
                > Do you have a computer in your room/shack that is on while you operate? If so, that just might be the source of some of your noise. I had been experiencing a lot of noise as have you. I operate in a room with my computer so I can keep QSO Maps on the monitor to see where there might be some action. I know my monitor gives me trouble with my HT, so I had a thought: I turned the monitor OFF (left the computer on) and a lot of my noise went away. Turning the computer off got rid of some more noise.
                >
                > So, something for you to consider.
                >
                > Jim
                > W7JCL
                >
                > --- In FT897@yahoogroups.com, Ryan Adams <rluk82@...> wrote:
                > >
                > > Hi
                > >
                > > I have a end fed hf 80-10 wire with my 897 and ldg897 tuner
                > >
                > > But when I tune I'm getting a lot of s8/9 and above white noise
                > >
                > > Is there anything I can do to reduce this?
                > >
                > > Thanks very much
                > >
                >
                >


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Dennis
                The computer is one of those appliances he was advised to turn off. However, you are very correct, computers AND their monitors do add plenty of noise.
                Message 7 of 21 , Jul 25, 2013
                  The computer is one of those "appliances" he was advised to turn off.
                  However, you are very correct, computers AND their monitors do add
                  plenty of noise.

                  Dennis - N8BMB

                  On 7/25/2013 14:30, borgia.stick wrote:
                  >
                  > I know there have been several replies from folks much more
                  > experienced than I, but I chanced on something last night that might
                  > help.
                  >
                  > Do you have a computer in your room/shack that is on while you
                  > operate? If so, that just might be the source of some of your noise. I
                  > had been experiencing a lot of noise as have you. I operate in a room
                  > with my computer so I can keep QSO Maps on the monitor to see where
                  > there might be some action. I know my monitor gives me trouble with my
                  > HT, so I had a thought: I turned the monitor OFF (left the computer
                  > on) and a lot of my noise went away. Turning the computer off got rid
                  > of some more noise.
                  >
                  > So, something for you to consider.
                  >
                  > Jim
                  > W7JCL
                  >
                  > --- In FT897@yahoogroups.com <mailto:FT897%40yahoogroups.com>, Ryan
                  > Adams <rluk82@...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Hi
                  > >
                  > > I have a end fed hf 80-10 wire with my 897 and ldg897 tuner
                  > >
                  > > But when I tune I'm getting a lot of s8/9 and above white noise
                  > >
                  > > Is there anything I can do to reduce this?
                  > >
                  > > Thanks very much
                  > >
                  >
                  >



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Alvin Chipmunk
                  Not only turn off, but unplug...... ________________________________ From: Dennis To: FT897@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2013
                  Message 8 of 21 , Jul 25, 2013
                    Not only turn off, but unplug......


                    ________________________________
                    From: Dennis <n8bmb1@...>
                    To: FT897@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2013 5:13 PM
                    Subject: Re: [FT897] Re: Hf wire and noise



                     
                    The computer is one of those "appliances" he was advised to turn off.
                    However, you are very correct, computers AND their monitors do add
                    plenty of noise.

                    Dennis - N8BMB

                    On 7/25/2013 14:30, borgia.stick wrote:
                    >
                    > I know there have been several replies from folks much more
                    > experienced than I, but I chanced on something last night that might
                    > help.
                    >
                    > Do you have a computer in your room/shack that is on while you
                    > operate? If so, that just might be the source of some of your noise. I
                    > had been experiencing a lot of noise as have you. I operate in a room
                    > with my computer so I can keep QSO Maps on the monitor to see where
                    > there might be some action. I know my monitor gives me trouble with my
                    > HT, so I had a thought: I turned the monitor OFF (left the computer
                    > on) and a lot of my noise went away. Turning the computer off got rid
                    > of some more noise.
                    >
                    > So, something for you to consider.
                    >
                    > Jim
                    > W7JCL
                    >
                    > --- In FT897@yahoogroups.com <mailto:FT897%40yahoogroups.com>, Ryan
                    > Adams <rluk82@...> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Hi
                    > >
                    > > I have a end fed hf 80-10 wire with my 897 and ldg897 tuner
                    > >
                    > > But when I tune I'm getting a lot of s8/9 and above white noise
                    > >
                    > > Is there anything I can do to reduce this?
                    > >
                    > > Thanks very much
                    > >
                    >
                    >

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • aa7fv
                    Unfortunately this is a common problem. Most electronic devices nowadays generate interference. I suspect many folks have this problem and don t realize it,
                    Message 9 of 21 , Jul 27, 2013
                      Unfortunately this is a common problem. Most electronic devices nowadays generate interference. I suspect many folks have this problem and don't realize it, thinking that what they hear is just normal background noise. HF is normally worse than VHF or UHF, but not always. The interference from different sources can peak at different frequencies.

                      An end fed antenna is particularly susceptible, because the antenna wire is inevitably close to (i.e. in the same room as) house wiring. You may do better with a balanced antenna further from the shack - or in the air, as far as possible from house wiring - if that's possible.

                      I live in a rural area, but it's a continuing struggle to try to keep my radio environment clean, because of my own equipment. Most of the noise generated is white or near-white noise. Particular problems I have:

                      1. All computers that I've measured generate some noise. Some are worse than others. I now keep computers out of the shack itself. Monitors can be worse than the computer itself.

                      2. Anything with a switching power supply is bad. Unfortunately, almost everything has a switching power supply now, rather than good old fashioned units with heavy transformers.

                      3. Every CFL light bulb I have tested generates interference, some worse than others. I avoid CFL bulbs in the shack now. Dimmable CFL (and LED) bulbs seem to be worse. The interference is broadband, but often peaks every 3 MHz or so, throughout the HF spectrum. For some reason around 18 MHz seems to be particularly bad in the bulbs I have tested.

                      4. Many LED light bulbs are particularly bad, from HF up through 2 meters and beyond. A recently purchased LED bulb made in China holds my personal record, blotting out 2 meters even with the 2 m antenna beam 60 feet away and pointing away from the house. Some LED bulbs do not produce any detectable interference, but they are becoming rarer. I started replacing my CFL bulbs with LEDs to reduce interference, but many LEDs nowadays can be worse than CFL bulbs. This is a function of bulb manufacturer. With both CFLs and LEDs, it's the built-in switching supply that generates the interference.

                      Old fashioned incandescent bulbs do not produce interference, unless they are connected to a dimmer.

                      5. I have several UPS units. Some of those generate interference even when turned off, but still plugged into the mains. Others, even from the same manufacturer, do not.

                      6. My DSL modem and separate computer router both generate interference. However, when I replaced their switching power supplies with old fashioned non-switching wall warts, much of the interference went away. I have also made liberal use of ferrite filters in all the power and signal leads going to the units.

                      7. The switching power supplies in several security cameras I have around the site are bad. The cameras generate some interference themselves, but replacing their power supplies with old fashioned non-switching wall warts removed most of their interference.

                      8. The home TV generates bad broadband interference when turned on. I am sure the magnitude of interference depends on technology (plasma, LED etc.), but they all produce some level of interference.

                      9. I have a pair of night-lights, that charge a removable LED flashlight by induction. They are terrible interference producers, even when the flashlight isn't being charged. I have to unplug the lights completely if I want to use my receiver at all.

                      10. The control unit of my garage door opener produces interference up to about 5 MHz, even though the garage is a separate building 100 feet away from the shack and any of my ham antennas. With my brand of door opener, the interference goes up to about 6 MHz. I have put a remote switch in the shack now, so that I can remove power to the garage when I want to receive on low frequency HF.

                      11. Some battery chargers (for NiMH AA, AAA ... batteries) are bad, even when turned off but plugged in. The charger for my cell phone is particularly bad - again, it's a switching supply.

                      12. My wife's Cpap machine is another source of interference. Again, it's the switching power supply.

                      13. Sometimes I have interference from the power lines running by my house. This has a characteristic 120 Hz buzz on an AM receiver, and can be detected throughout HF and seems particularly bad on 2 meters. However, compared to the other interference generated by my own electronics, this is often insignificant.

                      14. Many A/C units produce interference - again, from built-in switching power supplies in the controller. I recently installed a new unit in my house, but tested different brands with a portable receiver before selecting one that did not generate interference. I also have a new evaporate cooler ("swamp cooler") that was bad until I changed the entire control unit. Now it's quiet.

                      This is an incomplete list. Almost everything that you buy today, from light bulbs to computers, produces interference. It's almost always because of a switching power supply. In principle it could be filtered out, at least to some degree, but there are so many interference producers in the home nowadays that it's becoming a herculean task to keep the radio background quiet. I try to keep the worst offenders turned off when I'm using my ham receivers.

                      Good luck,
                      73
                      Darrel, aa7fv.


                      --- In FT897@yahoogroups.com, Ryan Adams <rluk82@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Hi
                      >
                      > I have a end fed hf 80-10 wire with my 897 and ldg897 tuner
                      >
                      > But when I tune I'm getting a lot of s8/9 and above white noise
                      >
                      > Is there anything I can do to reduce this?
                      >
                      > Thanks very much
                      >
                    • Viron
                      I to live in a noise rich environment, a condo. Currently the main things I am doing are using an ANC-4 Timewave noise canceler that works well for local
                      Message 10 of 21 , Jul 29, 2013
                        I to live in a noise rich environment, a condo. Currently the main things I am doing are using an ANC-4 Timewave noise canceler that works well for local noises only. Also, I operate when possible when most neighbors are asleep. By the S-Meter when using the ANC-4 S-8 noise goes to zero, but I lose 1-2 S-Units of signal. The next thing I will probably due is implement a magnetic loop antenna such as the MFJ-1788 or Isotron. The Hi-Q of the loop creates a narrow portion for receiving and transmitting frequencies usually of just a few K to about 10K, thus eleminating noise outside the narrow band width. The last thing, which should be first is a good RF ground.

                        --- In FT897@yahoogroups.com, "Radio_Randy" <randy.jones@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Random wire antennas, like yours, are quite susceptible to noise, especially if you live in a large city. You could try improving your grounding and see if that helps. You might also try reorienting your antenna.
                        >
                        > My first question would be "Are you using a switching power supply?". This includes the internal Yaesu unit. If so, try operating the radio on battery power only (all power supplies turned OFF) and see if the noise level drops. You might also try turning off laptops, wireless routers, Plasma TVs, etc.
                        >
                        > Let us know how you do.
                        >
                        > 73, Radio Randy N7CKJ
                        >
                        > --- In FT897@yahoogroups.com, Ryan Adams <rluk82@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Hi
                        > >
                        > > I have a end fed hf 80-10 wire with my 897 and ldg897 tuner
                        > >
                        > > But when I tune I'm getting a lot of s8/9 and above white noise
                        > >
                        > > Is there anything I can do to reduce this?
                        > >
                        > > Thanks very much
                        > >
                        >
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