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Weird sounding warbling tone sometimes when transmitting CW with external keyer

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  • pascalpete
    Greetings, I haven t been able to locate anyone else with an issue like this via a search of the forum and online (and indeed it is weird to try and guess what
    Message 1 of 22 , Jun 16, 2013
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      Greetings,

      I haven't been able to locate anyone else with an issue like this via a search of the forum and online (and indeed it is weird to try and guess what keywords to search on). I'm having a problem with my FT-897D and a CWTouchKeyer that I've had for about 2 years now. This problem comes and goes, but now it has come back and I can't get it to go away.

      The Symptom:
      The CWTouchKeyer is set up as an external paddle keyer. The device seems to work fine (with headphones) all by itself. When I plug it into the key jack in the back of the radio and attempt to key it, instead of getting a nice crisp "tone" out of my radio speaker (like a BEEP) I am getting a really weird sounding warble (something like "BE-OOOP"). Note that the tone sounds somewhat "asthmatic" (for want of a better word). That is, even though the tone is warbling, it at no point sounds "right." If I press the BK button on the radio (to allow me to hear the tone coming through the keyer but to NOT transmit...that is...if I enable the ft897 practice mode), the tone sounds perfect.

      I've looked at the wire/cable and checked it with my meter and it SEEMS okay. I am going to try finding someone nearby with an external keyer and cable and try theirs on my rig, but I thought I'd ask here in case this is a known or recognized issue (most likely a goofball setting) for the rig.

      I have thus far tried putting a fresh battery into the keyer (verified with a meter), and I tried unplugging the keyer from the radio and reversing the ends (I did this once before and it helped...which made me suspect the cable...but it isn't making sense now as the tone sounds fine when I turn off the transmitter on the 897).

      I checked the menu settings to ensure that the FT 897 didn't think I was trying to use the on board keyer.

      I am continuing to try to diagnose the issue, but if anyone has every seen this type of behavior before I'd appreciate the benefit of your experience.

      Thanks in advance.

      Peter Lee
      K8ACS
    • KenW
      ... If this happens while transmitting, sounds like you may be getting RF from somewhere. Try some torroids on the keyer cable. ... Ken
      Message 2 of 22 , Jun 16, 2013
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        On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 23:24:45 -0000, you wrote:

        >Greetings,
        >
        >I haven't been able to locate anyone else with an issue like this via a search of the forum and online (and indeed it is weird to try and guess what keywords to search on). I'm having a problem with my FT-897D and a CWTouchKeyer that I've had for about 2 years now. This problem comes and goes, but now it has come back and I can't get it to go away.
        >
        >The Symptom:
        >The CWTouchKeyer is set up as an external paddle keyer. The device seems to work fine (with headphones) all by itself. When I plug it into the key jack in the back of the radio and attempt to key it, instead of getting a nice crisp "tone" out of my radio speaker (like a BEEP) I am getting a really weird sounding warble (something like "BE-OOOP"). Note that the tone sounds somewhat "asthmatic" (for want of a better word). That is, even though the tone is warbling, it at no point sounds "right." If I press the BK button on the radio (to allow me to hear the tone coming through the keyer but to NOT transmit...that is...if I enable the ft897 practice mode), the tone sounds perfect.
        >
        >I've looked at the wire/cable and checked it with my meter and it SEEMS okay. I am going to try finding someone nearby with an external keyer and cable and try theirs on my rig, but I thought I'd ask here in case this is a known or recognized issue (most likely a goofball setting) for the rig.
        >
        >I have thus far tried putting a fresh battery into the keyer (verified with a meter), and I tried unplugging the keyer from the radio and reversing the ends (I did this once before and it helped...which made me suspect the cable...but it isn't making sense now as the tone sounds fine when I turn off the transmitter on the 897).
        >
        >I checked the menu settings to ensure that the FT 897 didn't think I was trying to use the on board keyer.
        >
        >I am continuing to try to diagnose the issue, but if anyone has every seen this type of behavior before I'd appreciate the benefit of your experience.
        >
        >Thanks in advance.
        >
        >Peter Lee
        >K8ACS

        If this happens while transmitting, sounds like you may be getting RF
        from somewhere. Try some torroids on the keyer cable.
        >
        >
        >
        >------------------------------------
        >
        >Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >


        Ken
      • pascalpete
        KenW, Thank you. I have no idea why that thought never entered into my head as a possibility...but I m pretty sure you are right on the money. I have had
        Message 3 of 22 , Jun 16, 2013
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          KenW,

          Thank you. I have no idea why that thought never entered into my head as a possibility...but I'm pretty sure you are right on the money.

          I have had problems with RF in my shack before, most likely because, as I've just recently noticed, the ladder line of my G5RV comes down from the antenna right on the opposite side of the wall where my radio is located in the shack. Not really smart and I'll have to figure out how to move things around in my tiny little shack/room to try to put more distance between my radio and the ladder line.

          The fact that it works fine when the transmitter is not engaged should have been my tip-off. Plus, I just tried throttling back the power from 50 watts down to 5...and the problem went away.

          That's gotta be it. Thank you for helping me out with that. As I fix this problem (by moving the radio in my shack and adding some torroids) I suspect a whole bunch of other quirks are about to go away.

          Again, thank you!


          Peter Lee
          K8ACS

          --- In FT897@yahoogroups.com, KenW <w2bdp@...> wrote:
          >
          > On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 23:24:45 -0000, you wrote:
          >
          > >Greetings,
          > >
          > >I haven't been able to locate anyone else with an issue like this via a search of the forum and online (and indeed it is weird to try and guess what keywords to search on). I'm having a problem with my FT-897D and a CWTouchKeyer that I've had for about 2 years now. This problem comes and goes, but now it has come back and I can't get it to go away.
          > >
          > >The Symptom:
          > >The CWTouchKeyer is set up as an external paddle keyer. The device seems to work fine (with headphones) all by itself. When I plug it into the key jack in the back of the radio and attempt to key it, instead of getting a nice crisp "tone" out of my radio speaker (like a BEEP) I am getting a really weird sounding warble (something like "BE-OOOP"). Note that the tone sounds somewhat "asthmatic" (for want of a better word). That is, even though the tone is warbling, it at no point sounds "right." If I press the BK button on the radio (to allow me to hear the tone coming through the keyer but to NOT transmit...that is...if I enable the ft897 practice mode), the tone sounds perfect.
          > >
          > >I've looked at the wire/cable and checked it with my meter and it SEEMS okay. I am going to try finding someone nearby with an external keyer and cable and try theirs on my rig, but I thought I'd ask here in case this is a known or recognized issue (most likely a goofball setting) for the rig.
          > >
          > >I have thus far tried putting a fresh battery into the keyer (verified with a meter), and I tried unplugging the keyer from the radio and reversing the ends (I did this once before and it helped...which made me suspect the cable...but it isn't making sense now as the tone sounds fine when I turn off the transmitter on the 897).
          > >
          > >I checked the menu settings to ensure that the FT 897 didn't think I was trying to use the on board keyer.
          > >
          > >I am continuing to try to diagnose the issue, but if anyone has every seen this type of behavior before I'd appreciate the benefit of your experience.
          > >
          > >Thanks in advance.
          > >
          > >Peter Lee
          > >K8ACS
          >
          > If this happens while transmitting, sounds like you may be getting RF
          > from somewhere. Try some torroids on the keyer cable.
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >------------------------------------
          > >
          > >Yahoo! Groups Links
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          > Ken
          >
        • D.J.J. Ring, Jr.
          Peter Lee, I m sorry you are having mysterious problems. From what you ve done, it doesn t sound like the CW Touch Keyer is the problem. I don t understand
          Message 4 of 22 , Jun 16, 2013
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            Peter Lee,

            I'm sorry you are having mysterious problems. From what you've done, it
            doesn't sound like the CW Touch Keyer is the problem.

            I don't understand from the description if the tone changes frequency or if
            it is stable as far as tone or frequency (more precisely the term) or is it
            just the keying is not right.

            Here is what I believe you should do.

            Find the Power Output adjustment for the radio.

            Crank it all the way DOWN to minimum.

            Transmit on the radio. Do you still have the asthmatic sound?

            I am guessing that you will not. If this is true, I believe the problem is
            RF Feed back. You should also have the SAME sound with a hand key or
            on/off switch connected to the keyline that you have the CW Touch Keyer
            attached to.

            If the radio sounds fine at the radio power being all the way down, slowly
            bring it up and continue testing until the problem starts.

            The first thing i would check is Earthing or Grounding. Is your radio
            transceiver grounded to a direct earth ground via a water pipe? It should
            be.

            Second, I'd try going to Radio Shack and buying from their parts drawers a
            snap on ferrite coil - they also sell them elsewhere. Before you go, see
            if the leads you use for the CWTouch Keyer are earthed or shielded - they
            should be, and the one's that Sumner from CWTouch Keyer sells are shielded.
            If you hooked up some AC lamp wire, that's probably a problem. Remove it
            or remove the hook up wire you used - :-) Use shielded wire.

            Write back after you've tried these things,

            DR

            =30=


            On Sun, Jun 16, 2013 at 7:24 PM, pascalpete <YahooGroups@...>wrote:

            > Greetings,
            >
            > I haven't been able to locate anyone else with an issue like this via a
            > search of the forum and online (and indeed it is weird to try and guess
            > what keywords to search on). I'm having a problem with my FT-897D and a
            > CWTouchKeyer that I've had for about 2 years now. This problem comes and
            > goes, but now it has come back and I can't get it to go away.
            >
            > The Symptom:
            > The CWTouchKeyer is set up as an external paddle keyer. The device seems
            > to work fine (with headphones) all by itself. When I plug it into the key
            > jack in the back of the radio and attempt to key it, instead of getting a
            > nice crisp "tone" out of my radio speaker (like a BEEP) I am getting a
            > really weird sounding warble (something like "BE-OOOP"). Note that the tone
            > sounds somewhat "asthmatic" (for want of a better word). That is, even
            > though the tone is warbling, it at no point sounds "right." If I press the
            > BK button on the radio (to allow me to hear the tone coming through the
            > keyer but to NOT transmit...that is...if I enable the ft897 practice mode),
            > the tone sounds perfect.
            >
            > I've looked at the wire/cable and checked it with my meter and it SEEMS
            > okay. I am going to try finding someone nearby with an external keyer and
            > cable and try theirs on my rig, but I thought I'd ask here in case this is
            > a known or recognized issue (most likely a goofball setting) for the rig.
            >
            > I have thus far tried putting a fresh battery into the keyer (verified
            > with a meter), and I tried unplugging the keyer from the radio and
            > reversing the ends (I did this once before and it helped...which made me
            > suspect the cable...but it isn't making sense now as the tone sounds fine
            > when I turn off the transmitter on the 897).
            >
            > I checked the menu settings to ensure that the FT 897 didn't think I was
            > trying to use the on board keyer.
            >
            > I am continuing to try to diagnose the issue, but if anyone has every seen
            > this type of behavior before I'd appreciate the benefit of your experience.
            >
            > Thanks in advance.
            >
            > Peter Lee
            > K8ACS
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • pascalpete
            DR, Sorry for the delay...I just saw your response. Thank you for taking the time to respond. Yes, the problem appears to be RF in the shack. I backed the
            Message 5 of 22 , Jun 18, 2013
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              DR,

              Sorry for the delay...I just saw your response. Thank you for taking the time to respond.

              Yes, the problem appears to be RF in the shack.

              I backed the power off to 5 watts and the problem went away. I also realized that the ladder line portion of my G5RV comes down the side of the house exactly on the opposite side of the (external) wall as my radio shack...exactly where my radio is located. I tried re-arranging the cable from the cwtouchkeyer so that it ran perpendicular to the direction of the ladder line and that appears to be all that is needed...for this problem.

              I am looking at moving my radio to a different part of my office so that it is not inches away from the ladder/feed line (just on the other side of the wall). I'm surprised I never encountered this before.

              To answer your question, yes, the tone was changing frequency. However, in addition to that, the quality of the tone was also changing (the asthmatic sound). The tone was switching between effectively only 2 frequencies, but no matter which frequency it was on the tone sounded "hollow" or "asthmatic." I'll try to remember your descriptive words should I need to report it again.

              Thank you for sharing your expertise. I am using the cable that come from the guys that made the cwtouchkeyer (who ironically, I happen to meet and speak with in Dayton just a few weeks ago), so it may be that moving the radio across the room and re-orienting the direction of the cables may be enough.

              Thank you once again.

              Peter Lee
              K8ACS



              --- In FT897@yahoogroups.com, "D.J.J. Ring, Jr." <n1ea@...> wrote:
              >
              > Peter Lee,
              >
              > I'm sorry you are having mysterious problems. From what you've done, it
              > doesn't sound like the CW Touch Keyer is the problem.
              >
              > I don't understand from the description if the tone changes frequency or if
              > it is stable as far as tone or frequency (more precisely the term) or is it
              > just the keying is not right.
              >
              > Here is what I believe you should do.
              >
              > Find the Power Output adjustment for the radio.
              >
              > Crank it all the way DOWN to minimum.
              >
              > Transmit on the radio. Do you still have the asthmatic sound?
              >
              > I am guessing that you will not. If this is true, I believe the problem is
              > RF Feed back. You should also have the SAME sound with a hand key or
              > on/off switch connected to the keyline that you have the CW Touch Keyer
              > attached to.
              >
              > If the radio sounds fine at the radio power being all the way down, slowly
              > bring it up and continue testing until the problem starts.
              >
              > The first thing i would check is Earthing or Grounding. Is your radio
              > transceiver grounded to a direct earth ground via a water pipe? It should
              > be.
              >
              > Second, I'd try going to Radio Shack and buying from their parts drawers a
              > snap on ferrite coil - they also sell them elsewhere. Before you go, see
              > if the leads you use for the CWTouch Keyer are earthed or shielded - they
              > should be, and the one's that Sumner from CWTouch Keyer sells are shielded.
              > If you hooked up some AC lamp wire, that's probably a problem. Remove it
              > or remove the hook up wire you used - :-) Use shielded wire.
              >
              > Write back after you've tried these things,
              >
              > DR
              >
              > =30=
              >
              >
              > On Sun, Jun 16, 2013 at 7:24 PM, pascalpete <YahooGroups@...>wrote:
              >
              > > Greetings,
              > >
              > > I haven't been able to locate anyone else with an issue like this via a
              > > search of the forum and online (and indeed it is weird to try and guess
              > > what keywords to search on). I'm having a problem with my FT-897D and a
              > > CWTouchKeyer that I've had for about 2 years now. This problem comes and
              > > goes, but now it has come back and I can't get it to go away.
              > >
              > > The Symptom:
              > > The CWTouchKeyer is set up as an external paddle keyer. The device seems
              > > to work fine (with headphones) all by itself. When I plug it into the key
              > > jack in the back of the radio and attempt to key it, instead of getting a
              > > nice crisp "tone" out of my radio speaker (like a BEEP) I am getting a
              > > really weird sounding warble (something like "BE-OOOP"). Note that the tone
              > > sounds somewhat "asthmatic" (for want of a better word). That is, even
              > > though the tone is warbling, it at no point sounds "right." If I press the
              > > BK button on the radio (to allow me to hear the tone coming through the
              > > keyer but to NOT transmit...that is...if I enable the ft897 practice mode),
              > > the tone sounds perfect.
              > >
              > > I've looked at the wire/cable and checked it with my meter and it SEEMS
              > > okay. I am going to try finding someone nearby with an external keyer and
              > > cable and try theirs on my rig, but I thought I'd ask here in case this is
              > > a known or recognized issue (most likely a goofball setting) for the rig.
              > >
              > > I have thus far tried putting a fresh battery into the keyer (verified
              > > with a meter), and I tried unplugging the keyer from the radio and
              > > reversing the ends (I did this once before and it helped...which made me
              > > suspect the cable...but it isn't making sense now as the tone sounds fine
              > > when I turn off the transmitter on the 897).
              > >
              > > I checked the menu settings to ensure that the FT 897 didn't think I was
              > > trying to use the on board keyer.
              > >
              > > I am continuing to try to diagnose the issue, but if anyone has every seen
              > > this type of behavior before I'd appreciate the benefit of your experience.
              > >
              > > Thanks in advance.
              > >
              > > Peter Lee
              > > K8ACS
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > ------------------------------------
              > >
              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • srcsports
              I am about to implement ladder line into an external tuner for my new and first rig (FT897D). Can someone tell me 1) how long coax I can/should use, 2) and in
              Message 6 of 22 , Jun 18, 2013
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                I am about to implement ladder line into an external tuner for my new and first rig (FT897D). Can someone tell me 1) how long coax I can/should use, 2) and in particular to get ladder line(connected to tuner) sufficiently away from FT897D? 3) I am assuming RG-8 would be my best option for that relatively short connection tuner to transceiver?

                Steve - KY5X

                Sent from my iPhone

                On Jun 18, 2013, at 4:19 PM, "pascalpete" <YahooGroups@...> wrote:

                >
                >
                > DR,
                >
                > Sorry for the delay...I just saw your response. Thank you for taking the time to respond.
                >
                > Yes, the problem appears to be RF in the shack.
                > ... Peter Lee
                >

                >
                >


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Joel
                I run a Full wave 60 Meter loop as one of my antennas. I bring the 450 ohm ladder line into the shack from the attic down the wall of the shack - 1 foot above
                Message 7 of 22 , Jun 19, 2013
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                  I run a Full wave 60 Meter loop as one of my antennas. I bring the 450
                  ohm ladder line into the shack
                  from the attic down the wall of the shack - 1 foot above the floor is a
                  MFJ W9INN 4:1 balun that has
                  a 6 foot section of RG-8X up to LDG tuner that has no internal balun..
                  The wall that the ladder line is on is 4 feet away
                  from the rig. I run up to 600W out on this setup with no RFI problems
                  on the FT-897.

                  RG8 should be fine - 3 to 6 feet should be no problem I would think .
                  I have not tried it with a tuner that has a balanced
                  input though, maybe someone else has.


                  On 6/18/2013 5:50 PM, srcsports@... wrote:
                  >
                  > I am about to implement ladder line into an external tuner for my new
                  > and first rig (FT897D). Can someone tell me 1) how long coax I
                  > can/should use, 2) and in particular to get ladder line(connected to
                  > tuner) sufficiently away from FT897D? 3) I am assuming RG-8 would be
                  > my best option for that relatively short connection tuner to transceiver?
                  >
                  > Steve - KY5X
                  >
                  > Sent from my iPhone
                  >
                  > On Jun 18, 2013, at 4:19 PM, "pascalpete"
                  > <YahooGroups@... <mailto:YahooGroups%40isshomefront.com>>
                  > wrote:
                  >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > DR,
                  > >
                  > > Sorry for the delay...I just saw your response. Thank you for taking
                  > the time to respond.
                  > >
                  > > Yes, the problem appears to be RF in the shack.
                  > > ... Peter Lee
                  > >
                  >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > No virus found in this message.
                  > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
                  > Version: 2012.0.2242 / Virus Database: 3199/5922 - Release Date: 06/18/13
                  >

                  --
                  KQØJ



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • D.J.J. Ring, Jr.
                  Peter Lee, Welcome to the world of amateur radio. Glad it works. 73 DR ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  Message 8 of 22 , Jun 19, 2013
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                    Peter Lee,

                    Welcome to the world of amateur radio.

                    Glad it works.

                    73

                    DR
                    On Jun 18, 2013 5:19 PM, "pascalpete" <YahooGroups@...> wrote:

                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > DR,
                    >
                    > Sorry for the delay...I just saw your response. Thank you for taking the
                    > time to respond.
                    >
                    > Yes, the problem appears to be RF in the shack.
                    >
                    > I backed the power off to 5 watts and the problem went away. I also
                    > realized that the ladder line portion of my G5RV comes down the side of the
                    > house exactly on the opposite side of the (external) wall as my radio
                    > shack...exactly where my radio is located. I tried re-arranging the cable
                    > from the cwtouchkeyer so that it ran perpendicular to the direction of the
                    > ladder line and that appears to be all that is needed...for this problem.
                    >
                    > I am looking at moving my radio to a different part of my office so that
                    > it is not inches away from the ladder/feed line (just on the other side of
                    > the wall). I'm surprised I never encountered this before.
                    >
                    > To answer your question, yes, the tone was changing frequency. However, in
                    > addition to that, the quality of the tone was also changing (the asthmatic
                    > sound). The tone was switching between effectively only 2 frequencies, but
                    > no matter which frequency it was on the tone sounded "hollow" or
                    > "asthmatic." I'll try to remember your descriptive words should I need to
                    > report it again.
                    >
                    > Thank you for sharing your expertise. I am using the cable that come from
                    > the guys that made the cwtouchkeyer (who ironically, I happen to meet and
                    > speak with in Dayton just a few weeks ago), so it may be that moving the
                    > radio across the room and re-orienting the direction of the cables may be
                    > enough.
                    >
                    > Thank you once again.
                    >
                    > Peter Lee
                    > K8ACS
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In FT897@yahoogroups.com, "D.J.J. Ring, Jr." <n1ea@...> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Peter Lee,
                    > >
                    > > I'm sorry you are having mysterious problems. From what you've done, it
                    > > doesn't sound like the CW Touch Keyer is the problem.
                    > >
                    > > I don't understand from the description if the tone changes frequency or
                    > if
                    > > it is stable as far as tone or frequency (more precisely the term) or is
                    > it
                    > > just the keying is not right.
                    > >
                    > > Here is what I believe you should do.
                    > >
                    > > Find the Power Output adjustment for the radio.
                    > >
                    > > Crank it all the way DOWN to minimum.
                    > >
                    > > Transmit on the radio. Do you still have the asthmatic sound?
                    > >
                    > > I am guessing that you will not. If this is true, I believe the problem
                    > is
                    > > RF Feed back. You should also have the SAME sound with a hand key or
                    > > on/off switch connected to the keyline that you have the CW Touch Keyer
                    > > attached to.
                    > >
                    > > If the radio sounds fine at the radio power being all the way down,
                    > slowly
                    > > bring it up and continue testing until the problem starts.
                    > >
                    > > The first thing i would check is Earthing or Grounding. Is your radio
                    > > transceiver grounded to a direct earth ground via a water pipe? It
                    > should
                    > > be.
                    > >
                    > > Second, I'd try going to Radio Shack and buying from their parts drawers
                    > a
                    > > snap on ferrite coil - they also sell them elsewhere. Before you go, see
                    > > if the leads you use for the CWTouch Keyer are earthed or shielded - they
                    > > should be, and the one's that Sumner from CWTouch Keyer sells are
                    > shielded.
                    > > If you hooked up some AC lamp wire, that's probably a problem. Remove
                    > it
                    > > or remove the hook up wire you used - :-) Use shielded wire.
                    > >
                    > > Write back after you've tried these things,
                    > >
                    > > DR
                    > >
                    > > =30=
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > On Sun, Jun 16, 2013 at 7:24 PM, pascalpete <YahooGroups@...>wrote:
                    > >
                    > > > Greetings,
                    > > >
                    > > > I haven't been able to locate anyone else with an issue like this via a
                    > > > search of the forum and online (and indeed it is weird to try and guess
                    > > > what keywords to search on). I'm having a problem with my FT-897D and a
                    > > > CWTouchKeyer that I've had for about 2 years now. This problem comes
                    > and
                    > > > goes, but now it has come back and I can't get it to go away.
                    > > >
                    > > > The Symptom:
                    > > > The CWTouchKeyer is set up as an external paddle keyer. The device
                    > seems
                    > > > to work fine (with headphones) all by itself. When I plug it into the
                    > key
                    > > > jack in the back of the radio and attempt to key it, instead of
                    > getting a
                    > > > nice crisp "tone" out of my radio speaker (like a BEEP) I am getting a
                    > > > really weird sounding warble (something like "BE-OOOP"). Note that the
                    > tone
                    > > > sounds somewhat "asthmatic" (for want of a better word). That is, even
                    > > > though the tone is warbling, it at no point sounds "right." If I press
                    > the
                    > > > BK button on the radio (to allow me to hear the tone coming through the
                    > > > keyer but to NOT transmit...that is...if I enable the ft897 practice
                    > mode),
                    > > > the tone sounds perfect.
                    > > >
                    > > > I've looked at the wire/cable and checked it with my meter and it SEEMS
                    > > > okay. I am going to try finding someone nearby with an external keyer
                    > and
                    > > > cable and try theirs on my rig, but I thought I'd ask here in case
                    > this is
                    > > > a known or recognized issue (most likely a goofball setting) for the
                    > rig.
                    > > >
                    > > > I have thus far tried putting a fresh battery into the keyer (verified
                    > > > with a meter), and I tried unplugging the keyer from the radio and
                    > > > reversing the ends (I did this once before and it helped...which made
                    > me
                    > > > suspect the cable...but it isn't making sense now as the tone sounds
                    > fine
                    > > > when I turn off the transmitter on the 897).
                    > > >
                    > > > I checked the menu settings to ensure that the FT 897 didn't think I
                    > was
                    > > > trying to use the on board keyer.
                    > > >
                    > > > I am continuing to try to diagnose the issue, but if anyone has every
                    > seen
                    > > > this type of behavior before I'd appreciate the benefit of your
                    > experience.
                    > > >
                    > > > Thanks in advance.
                    > > >
                    > > > Peter Lee
                    > > > K8ACS
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > ------------------------------------
                    > > >
                    > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ------------------------------------
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Alex Netherton
                    Check into G5RV antenna if you are using coax. Otherwise, just bring ladder line in shack and attach to tuner. I have 2 tuners, one with an internal toroid and
                    Message 9 of 22 , Jun 19, 2013
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Check into G5RV antenna if you are using coax. Otherwise, just bring ladder
                      line in shack and attach to tuner. I have 2 tuners, one with an internal
                      toroid and two pins on the back for ladder line (
                      http://www.mfjenterprises.com/Product.php?productid=MFJ-993B) and the other
                      has a 4:1 balun on the back of the tuner (
                      http://www.ldgelectronics.com/c/252/products/17/1/1) and (
                      http://www.ldgelectronics.com/c/252/products/2/13/1) that is placed there
                      with a double ended PL-259 connector, though could be used with a jumper.
                      *I know, two tuners, what gives? Long story... I have yet another tuner in
                      the shack, an MFJ-949E, but it is for sale...* I have no trouble with
                      RFI/TVI, as I have a good (I hope) ground. The antenna ladder wire comes in
                      the shack within inches of the rig (FT-950), and no problems. Rf in the
                      shack is more than likely a grounding problem. I got a MFJ artificial
                      ground # MFJ-931 (
                      http://www.mfjenterprises.com/Product.php?productid=MFJ-931, but look at
                      http://www.mfjenterprises.com/Product.php?productid=MFJ-934), and have not
                      had any RFI problems. If you can't get to a ground, make one, I guess. I
                      got mine off Ebay for a lot less than retail, and it works a charm - I have
                      no ground problems, and after an initial tuning, I have no further problems.

                      *A note: For a G5RV, the ladder line portion is a part of a wavelength, so
                      radiates, where in a normal doublet it does not, as it is supposedly
                      "balanced", though you might want other opinions. I vote for grounding
                      problems.

                      73 es gud luk de
                      KC4BO


                      On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 6:50 PM, <srcsports@...> wrote:

                      > **
                      >
                      >
                      > I am about to implement ladder line into an external tuner for my new and
                      > first rig (FT897D). Can someone tell me 1) how long coax I can/should use,
                      > 2) and in particular to get ladder line(connected to tuner) sufficiently
                      > away from FT897D? 3) I am assuming RG-8 would be my best option for that
                      > relatively short connection tuner to transceiver?
                      >
                      > Steve - KY5X
                      >
                      > Sent from my iPhone
                      >
                      > On Jun 18, 2013, at 4:19 PM, "pascalpete" <YahooGroups@...>
                      > wrote:
                      >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > DR,
                      > >
                      > > Sorry for the delay...I just saw your response. Thank you for taking the
                      > time to respond.
                      > >
                      > > Yes, the problem appears to be RF in the shack.
                      > > ... Peter Lee
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >
                      >



                      --
                      Alex Netherton
                      http://blueridgediscovery.com


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • af2c@...
                      Instability in the power supply (including intrusion of rf) may cause the same problem. Check your grounding and change the position of the power supply or
                      Message 10 of 22 , Jun 19, 2013
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Instability in the power supply (including intrusion of rf) may cause the
                        same problem. Check your grounding and change the position of the power
                        supply or source of power relative the rig.

                        Of course, I presume that you are using a 25 - 30 Amp PS.

                        73,
                        Jay/AF2C



                        At 10:16 PM 6/19/2013 -0400, you wrote:
                        >Check into G5RV antenna if you are using coax. Otherwise, just bring ladder
                        >line in shack and attach to tuner. I have 2 tuners, one with an internal
                        >toroid and two pins on the back for ladder line (
                        >http://www.mfjenterprises.com/Product.php?productid=MFJ-993B) and the other
                        >has a 4:1 balun on the back of the tuner (
                        >http://www.ldgelectronics.com/c/252/products/17/1/1) and (
                        >http://www.ldgelectronics.com/c/252/products/2/13/1) that is placed there
                        >with a double ended PL-259 connector, though could be used with a jumper.
                        >*I know, two tuners, what gives? Long story... I have yet another tuner in
                        >the shack, an MFJ-949E, but it is for sale...* I have no trouble with
                        >RFI/TVI, as I have a good (I hope) ground. The antenna ladder wire comes in
                        >the shack within inches of the rig (FT-950), and no problems. Rf in the
                        >shack is more than likely a grounding problem. I got a MFJ artificial
                        >ground # MFJ-931 (
                        >http://www.mfjenterprises.com/Product.php?productid=MFJ-931, but look at
                        >http://www.mfjenterprises.com/Product.php?productid=MFJ-934), and have not
                        >had any RFI problems. If you can't get to a ground, make one, I guess. I
                        >got mine off Ebay for a lot less than retail, and it works a charm - I have
                        >no ground problems, and after an initial tuning, I have no further problems.
                        >
                        >*A note: For a G5RV, the ladder line portion is a part of a wavelength, so
                        >radiates, where in a normal doublet it does not, as it is supposedly
                        >"balanced", though you might want other opinions. I vote for grounding
                        >problems.
                        >
                        >73 es gud luk de
                        >KC4BO
                        >
                        >
                        >On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 6:50 PM, <srcsports@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > > **
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > I am about to implement ladder line into an external tuner for my new and
                        > > first rig (FT897D). Can someone tell me 1) how long coax I can/should use,
                        > > 2) and in particular to get ladder line(connected to tuner) sufficiently
                        > > away from FT897D? 3) I am assuming RG-8 would be my best option for that
                        > > relatively short connection tuner to transceiver?
                        > >
                        > > Steve - KY5X
                        > >
                        > > Sent from my iPhone
                        > >
                        > > On Jun 18, 2013, at 4:19 PM, "pascalpete" <YahooGroups@...>
                        > > wrote:
                        > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > DR,
                        > > >
                        > > > Sorry for the delay...I just saw your response. Thank you for taking the
                        > > time to respond.
                        > > >
                        > > > Yes, the problem appears to be RF in the shack.
                        > > > ... Peter Lee
                        > > >
                        > >
                      • Steve Chaples
                        Great information for proximity of ladder line and transmitter. Thank you! I bought an MFJ941E, in particular for the features of one post for Wire, the 2
                        Message 11 of 22 , Jun 19, 2013
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Great information for proximity of ladder line and transmitter. Thank you!


                          I bought an MFJ941E, in particular for the features of one post for Wire, the 2 posts for Balance Line, and the 4:1 balun (plus, of course, all the other great features).


                          1) Random Wire Antenna - Tuner instructions say tuner should be "well-grounded" to the transmitter from the GROUND post on the tuner. Does "well-grounded" simply mean I  run any gauge/any wire between the tuner (wing nut GND) and my FT897D (GND screw)?
                          2) Balanced Line-Fed Antenna - Tuner instructions say run a jumper wire from Wire post to one of the two Balance Line posts. Does that mean I simply run any gauge/any wire between the Wire post and the Balance Line post?

                          Steve - KY5X



                          ________________________________
                          From: Alex Netherton <anetherton@...>
                          To: FT897@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 9:16 PM
                          Subject: Re: [FT897] Re: Weird sounding warbling tone sometimes when transmitting CW with external keyer


                          .... I have yet another tuner in
                          the shack, an MFJ-949E, but it is for sale...* I have no trouble with
                          RFI/TVI, as I have a good (I hope) ground. The antenna ladder wire comes in
                          the shack within inches of the rig (FT-950), and no problems. Rf in the
                          shack is more than likely a grounding problem. I got a MFJ artificial
                          ground # MFJ-931 ...

                          73 es gud luk de
                          KC4BO

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • D.J.J. Ring, Jr.
                          Strip and weave together three #14 awg THHN wire, or use coaxial cable shield, or strips of copper plate. Georgia Copper sells strips you can use. Also you
                          Message 12 of 22 , Jun 19, 2013
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Strip and weave together three #14 awg THHN wire, or use coaxial cable
                            shield, or strips of copper plate.

                            Georgia Copper sells strips you can use. Also you might want to buy a
                            grounding bus to tie all the grounds together.

                            Think professional - not like an amateur :-)

                            (That was a half-joke!)

                            73

                            DR

                            On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 11:24 PM, Steve Chaples <srcsports@...> wrote:

                            >
                            >
                            > Great information for proximity of ladder line and transmitter. Thank you!
                            >
                            >
                            > I bought an MFJ941E, in particular for the features of one post for Wire,
                            > the 2 posts for Balance Line, and the 4:1 balun (plus, of course, all the
                            > other great features).
                            >
                            >
                            > 1) Random Wire Antenna - Tuner instructions say tuner should be
                            > "well-grounded" to the transmitter from the GROUND post on the tuner. Does
                            > "well-grounded" simply mean I run any gauge/any wire between the tuner
                            > (wing nut GND) and my FT897D (GND screw)?
                            > 2) Balanced Line-Fed Antenna - Tuner instructions say run a jumper wire
                            > from Wire post to one of the two Balance Line posts. Does that mean I
                            > simply run any gauge/any wire between the Wire post and the Balance Line
                            > post?
                            >
                            > Steve - KY5X
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ________________________________
                            > From: Alex Netherton <anetherton@...>
                            > To: FT897@yahoogroups.com
                            > Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 9:16 PM
                            > Subject: Re: [FT897] Re: Weird sounding warbling tone sometimes when
                            > transmitting CW with external keyer
                            >
                            >
                            > .... I have yet another tuner in
                            > the shack, an MFJ-949E, but it is for sale...* I have no trouble with
                            > RFI/TVI, as I have a good (I hope) ground. The antenna ladder wire comes in
                            > the shack within inches of the rig (FT-950), and no problems. Rf in the
                            > shack is more than likely a grounding problem. I got a MFJ artificial
                            > ground # MFJ-931 ...
                            >
                            > 73 es gud luk de
                            > KC4BO
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ------------------------------------
                            >
                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Alex Netherton
                            Tuner instructions say tuner should be well-grounded to the transmitter from the GROUND post on the tuner. Does well-grounded simply mean I run any
                            Message 13 of 22 , Jun 19, 2013
                            • 0 Attachment
                              "Tuner instructions say tuner should be "well-grounded" to the transmitter
                              from the GROUND post on the tuner. Does "well-grounded" simply mean I run
                              any gauge/any wire between the tuner (wing nut GND) and my FT897D (GND
                              screw)?"

                              Ah, no. It means that your transmitter *and* tuner should be grounded to a
                              good earth ground. An earth ground is ideally a braided copper strap of
                              about 1 inch going from the back of the rig - tuner - etc to the ground
                              outside the shack, which is (again) ideally a 4 foot ground rod made of
                              copper (expensive!!!) or at least copper clad steel. Even more ideally,
                              four of them in parallel.

                              " Balanced Line-Fed Antenna - Tuner instructions say run a jumper wire from
                              Wire post to one of the two Balance Line posts. Does that mean I simply run
                              any gauge/any wire between the Wire post and the Balance Line post?" Yes,
                              but you still need a good ground.

                              If you can't put in a good earth ground, try routing a wire of heavy gauge
                              to something made of metal that is ultimately connected to the earth. If
                              you live far up in an apartment, I would suggest an MFJ Artificial
                              Ground... They work! At any rate, a ground is necessary to keep pesky RF
                              out of the shack.

                              My ground here at KC4BO is a 12 gauge wire (the heavier the better) that
                              "crow foots" off the ground wire to connect everything in the shack. That
                              wire goes to an MFJ-931 Artificial Ground. From there it goes down 10 feet
                              (my shack is over a garage), makes a right angle turn and goes to a cold
                              water pipe about 30 feet away in my basement. Another connection goes to a
                              ground rod outside the basement. In past years, RF was in the telephone,
                              TV, my rig, and if I put my lips to my mic, I got RF "bit". Now, I have
                              none of those problems. A good efficient ground can make or break you.
                              Good luck and 73

                              "Think professional - not like an amateur :-)

                              (That was a half-joke!)"

                              Hee hee! We are all Amateurs here!


                              73
                              KC4BO
                              Alex


                              On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 11:24 PM, Steve Chaples <srcsports@...> wrote:

                              > **
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Great information for proximity of ladder line and transmitter. Thank you!
                              >
                              > I bought an MFJ941E, in particular for the features of one post for Wire,
                              > the 2 posts for Balance Line, and the 4:1 balun (plus, of course, all the
                              > other great features).
                              >
                              > 1) Random Wire Antenna - Tuner instructions say tuner should be
                              > "well-grounded" to the transmitter from the GROUND post on the tuner. Does
                              > "well-grounded" simply mean I run any gauge/any wire between the tuner
                              > (wing nut GND) and my FT897D (GND screw)?
                              > 2) Balanced Line-Fed Antenna - Tuner instructions say run a jumper wire
                              > from Wire post to one of the two Balance Line posts. Does that mean I
                              > simply run any gauge/any wire between the Wire post and the Balance Line
                              > post?
                              >
                              > Steve - KY5X
                              >
                              > ________________________________
                              > From: Alex Netherton <anetherton@...>
                              > To: FT897@yahoogroups.com
                              > Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 9:16 PM
                              > Subject: Re: [FT897] Re: Weird sounding warbling tone sometimes when
                              > transmitting CW with external keyer
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > .... I have yet another tuner in
                              > the shack, an MFJ-949E, but it is for sale...* I have no trouble with
                              > RFI/TVI, as I have a good (I hope) ground. The antenna ladder wire comes in
                              > the shack within inches of the rig (FT-950), and no problems. Rf in the
                              > shack is more than likely a grounding problem. I got a MFJ artificial
                              > ground # MFJ-931 ...
                              >
                              >
                              > 73 es gud luk de
                              > KC4BO
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                              >
                              >



                              --
                              Alex Netherton
                              http://blueridgediscovery.com


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • pascalpete
                              I should check my ground...I am by no means a grounding expert... I have my components connected/grounded to a copper pipe with braided wire, then the copper
                              Message 14 of 22 , Jun 20, 2013
                              • 0 Attachment
                                I should check my ground...I am by no means a grounding expert...

                                I have my components connected/grounded to a copper pipe with braided wire, then the copper pipe is connected to a window "pass through" I created (block of wook with bolts going through it so I don't have to put cables through the wall). The other side of the pass through is large copper wire (I don't recall the gauge...I just recall it is rather thick) that drops straight down from my second story shack to an 8 foot grounding rod pounded into the ground. I have checked the connections and they look solid.

                                Also, I did not want to go through the outside wall, so I don't have the ladder line coming through the shack. I have a feed line coming around the side of the house and in through the window pass-through the window pass-through (on a different bolt).

                                I'll have to take a close look at it again.

                                Peter Lee
                                K8ACS

                                --- In FT897@yahoogroups.com, Alex Netherton <anetherton@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > "Tuner instructions say tuner should be "well-grounded" to the transmitter
                                > from the GROUND post on the tuner. Does "well-grounded" simply mean I run
                                > any gauge/any wire between the tuner (wing nut GND) and my FT897D (GND
                                > screw)?"
                                >
                                > Ah, no. It means that your transmitter *and* tuner should be grounded to a
                                > good earth ground. An earth ground is ideally a braided copper strap of
                                > about 1 inch going from the back of the rig - tuner - etc to the ground
                                > outside the shack, which is (again) ideally a 4 foot ground rod made of
                                > copper (expensive!!!) or at least copper clad steel. Even more ideally,
                                > four of them in parallel.
                                >
                                > " Balanced Line-Fed Antenna - Tuner instructions say run a jumper wire from
                                > Wire post to one of the two Balance Line posts. Does that mean I simply run
                                > any gauge/any wire between the Wire post and the Balance Line post?" Yes,
                                > but you still need a good ground.
                                >
                                > If you can't put in a good earth ground, try routing a wire of heavy gauge
                                > to something made of metal that is ultimately connected to the earth. If
                                > you live far up in an apartment, I would suggest an MFJ Artificial
                                > Ground... They work! At any rate, a ground is necessary to keep pesky RF
                                > out of the shack.
                                >
                                > My ground here at KC4BO is a 12 gauge wire (the heavier the better) that
                                > "crow foots" off the ground wire to connect everything in the shack. That
                                > wire goes to an MFJ-931 Artificial Ground. From there it goes down 10 feet
                                > (my shack is over a garage), makes a right angle turn and goes to a cold
                                > water pipe about 30 feet away in my basement. Another connection goes to a
                                > ground rod outside the basement. In past years, RF was in the telephone,
                                > TV, my rig, and if I put my lips to my mic, I got RF "bit". Now, I have
                                > none of those problems. A good efficient ground can make or break you.
                                > Good luck and 73
                                >
                                > "Think professional - not like an amateur :-)
                                >
                                > (That was a half-joke!)"
                                >
                                > Hee hee! We are all Amateurs here!
                                >
                                >
                                > 73
                                > KC4BO
                                > Alex
                                >
                                >
                                > On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 11:24 PM, Steve Chaples <srcsports@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > > **
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > Great information for proximity of ladder line and transmitter. Thank you!
                                > >
                                > > I bought an MFJ941E, in particular for the features of one post for Wire,
                                > > the 2 posts for Balance Line, and the 4:1 balun (plus, of course, all the
                                > > other great features).
                                > >
                                > > 1) Random Wire Antenna - Tuner instructions say tuner should be
                                > > "well-grounded" to the transmitter from the GROUND post on the tuner. Does
                                > > "well-grounded" simply mean I run any gauge/any wire between the tuner
                                > > (wing nut GND) and my FT897D (GND screw)?
                                > > 2) Balanced Line-Fed Antenna - Tuner instructions say run a jumper wire
                                > > from Wire post to one of the two Balance Line posts. Does that mean I
                                > > simply run any gauge/any wire between the Wire post and the Balance Line
                                > > post?
                                > >
                                > > Steve - KY5X
                                > >
                                > > ________________________________
                                > > From: Alex Netherton <anetherton@...>
                                > > To: FT897@yahoogroups.com
                                > > Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 9:16 PM
                                > > Subject: Re: [FT897] Re: Weird sounding warbling tone sometimes when
                                > > transmitting CW with external keyer
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > .... I have yet another tuner in
                                > > the shack, an MFJ-949E, but it is for sale...* I have no trouble with
                                > > RFI/TVI, as I have a good (I hope) ground. The antenna ladder wire comes in
                                > > the shack within inches of the rig (FT-950), and no problems. Rf in the
                                > > shack is more than likely a grounding problem. I got a MFJ artificial
                                > > ground # MFJ-931 ...
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > 73 es gud luk de
                                > > KC4BO
                                > >
                                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > --
                                > Alex Netherton
                                > http://blueridgediscovery.com
                                >
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
                              • Joel
                                On the subject of grounding and RFI - here is my experience with my FT-897 and grounding in my own shack. First off I am an Heretick - I have *no ground
                                Message 15 of 22 , Jun 20, 2013
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  On the subject of grounding and RFI - here is my experience with my
                                  FT-897 and
                                  grounding in my own shack.

                                  First off I am an Heretick - I have *no ground connection* other than
                                  what exists through
                                  the power plug on the wall. I have a 2nd floor shack and no easy way to
                                  install a ground
                                  rod under me - last time I tried I ended up drilling into 12 inches of
                                  concrete in an attempt
                                  to reach earth and ran out of drill. Actually I decided not to install
                                  one then because I would
                                  then have an out of code ground rod that was not tied in with the
                                  service panel ground rod.
                                  My understanding is that NEC requires all grounding systems to be tied
                                  together at the
                                  utility ground.

                                  My rig works very well and I have no problems with RFI now that I have
                                  mitigated them and
                                  run antenna connections carefully. I installed a grounding bar on my
                                  shack desk and tie all
                                  equipment to this one bus with short runs of wire. 10 Ga stranded for
                                  the long runs 14 ga
                                  solid for the short ones.

                                  I run a multi band trap dipole fed with coax as well as a 60 meter loop
                                  fed with 450 ohm ladder line that comes into the
                                  shack. Also a 6 meter squalo and 2 VHF / UHF antennas. I tune that
                                  loop for all bands 80-6 with a LDG 600pro
                                  tuner - I also do that with the dipole as needed. I also use a MFJ 993
                                  b on occasion. I run
                                  up to 600 watts out from my amplifier with no issues on the FT897.
                                  Nothing in the shack is
                                  hot with RF even at high power ( now that I made those changes ).

                                  I have had to make sure that all my coax runs are kept separated by a
                                  few inches , run neatly and
                                  kept at least 8 inches away from the ladder line. I had to add ferrites
                                  to USB cables to the PC that
                                  I use for rig control and Digital modes. I use toroids on the CAT cable
                                  to the rig.

                                  In the past 40 + years as a Ham, I have run from many locations in
                                  Condos , Apartments and such and never had to use
                                  an earth ground. I have also had multiple locations where it was
                                  convenient to run a ground and did so.

                                  You would think that a station like mine would need a good earth ground,
                                  but my experience proves otherwise.

                                  Net so far - 212 DXCC entities in the last 18 months ( most with 100W )
                                  . 1000+ 6 meter contacts 1000+ digital contacts..

                                  73
                                  Joel
                                  KQ0J



                                  On 6/19/2013 11:42 PM, Alex Netherton wrote:
                                  > "Tuner instructions say tuner should be "well-grounded" to the transmitter
                                  > from the GROUND post on the tuner. Does "well-grounded" simply mean I run
                                  > any gauge/any wire between the tuner (wing nut GND) and my FT897D (GND
                                  > screw)?"
                                  >
                                  > Ah, no. It means that your transmitter *and* tuner should be grounded to a
                                  > good earth ground. An earth ground is ideally a braided copper strap of
                                  > about 1 inch going from the back of the rig - tuner - etc to the ground
                                  > outside the shack, which is (again) ideally a 4 foot ground rod made of
                                  > copper (expensive!!!) or at least copper clad steel. Even more ideally,
                                  > four of them in parallel.
                                  >
                                  > " Balanced Line-Fed Antenna - Tuner instructions say run a jumper wire from
                                  > Wire post to one of the two Balance Line posts. Does that mean I simply run
                                  > any gauge/any wire between the Wire post and the Balance Line post?" Yes,
                                  > but you still need a good ground.
                                  >
                                  > If you can't put in a good earth ground, try routing a wire of heavy gauge
                                  > to something made of metal that is ultimately connected to the earth. If
                                  > you live far up in an apartment, I would suggest an MFJ Artificial
                                  > Ground... They work! At any rate, a ground is necessary to keep pesky RF
                                  > out of the shack.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > 73



                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • raydeeoh08
                                  Electrical (utility) ground is NOT a RF ground. 73, Robert VE7ZN Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPhone [Non-text portions of this
                                  Message 16 of 22 , Jun 20, 2013
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Electrical (utility) ground is NOT a RF ground. <br/><br/>73,<br/>Robert<br/>VE7ZN<br/><br/><br/>Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPhone

                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Joel
                                    Not sure what your point is on that. If I add a ground rod to my shack and tie it into my equipment that is also grounded via the power outlet, I am creating
                                    Message 17 of 22 , Jun 20, 2013
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                                      Not sure what your point is on that.

                                      If I add a ground rod to my shack and tie it into my equipment that is
                                      also
                                      grounded via the power outlet, I am creating a system with two different
                                      ground systems which violates the NEC and may create insurance problems
                                      with a claim. My understanding is that all grounds must be tied
                                      together at
                                      a common point - this would include any ground that had a path back to the
                                      power distribution panel via my rig to the power plug. In my case it
                                      would be impossible
                                      to bind a ground outside my operating position with the one on the other
                                      side of the house
                                      where the utilities are grounded.

                                      Someone knowledgeable please correct me if I am mistaken.

                                      If I somehow had a RF ground that was totally separate from the AC mains
                                      , that
                                      would be a different story. But this is impossible for my equipment.

                                      My point is that In my station, I do not need an RF ground for good
                                      functioning of the equipment.

                                      Cheers





                                      On 6/20/2013 10:41 AM, raydeeoh08@... wrote:
                                      > Electrical (utility) ground is NOT a RF ground.
                                      >
                                      > 73,
                                      > Robert
                                      > VE7ZN
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPhone
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                      > *From: * Joel <hiqual@...>;
                                      > *To: * <FT897@yahoogroups.com>;
                                      > *Subject: * Re: [FT897] GROUNDING / Weird sounding warbling tone
                                      > *Sent: * Thu, Jun 20, 2013 2:52:08 PM
                                      >
                                      > On the subject of grounding and RFI - here is my experience with my
                                      > FT-897 and
                                      > grounding in my own shack.
                                      >
                                      > First off I am an Heretick - I have *no ground connection* other than
                                      > what exists through
                                      > the power plug on the wall. I have a 2nd floor shack and no easy way to
                                      > install a ground
                                      > rod under me - last time I tried I ended up drilling into 12 inches of
                                      > concrete in an attempt
                                      > to reach earth and ran out of drill. Actually I decided not to install
                                      > one then because I would
                                      > then have an out of code ground rod that was not tied in with the
                                      > service panel ground rod.
                                      > My understanding is that NEC requires all grounding systems to be tied
                                      > together at the
                                      > utility ground.
                                      >
                                      > My rig works very well and I have no problems with RFI now that I have
                                      > mitigated them and
                                      > run antenna connections carefully. I installed a grounding bar on my
                                      > shack desk and tie all
                                      > equipment to this one bus with short runs of wire. 10 Ga stranded for
                                      > the long runs 14 ga
                                      > solid for the short ones.
                                      >
                                      > I run a multi band trap dipole fed with coax as well as a 60 meter loop
                                      > fed with 450 ohm ladder line that comes into the
                                      > shack. Also a 6 meter squalo and 2 VHF / UHF antennas. I tune that
                                      > loop for all bands 80-6 with a LDG 600pro
                                      > tuner - I also do that with the dipole as needed. I also use a MFJ 993
                                      > b on occasion. I run
                                      > up to 600 watts out from my amplifier with no issues on the FT897.
                                      > Nothing in the shack is
                                      > hot with RF even at high power ( now that I made those changes ).
                                      >
                                      > I have had to make sure that all my coax runs are kept separated by a
                                      > few inches , run neatly and
                                      > kept at least 8 inches away from the ladder line. I had to add ferrites
                                      > to USB cables to the PC that
                                      > I use for rig control and Digital modes. I use toroids on the CAT cable
                                      > to the rig.
                                      >
                                      > In the past 40 + years as a Ham, I have run from many locations in
                                      > Condos , Apartments and such and never had to use
                                      > an earth ground. I have also had multiple locations where it was
                                      > convenient to run a ground and did so.
                                      >
                                      > You would think that a station like mine would need a good earth ground,
                                      > but my experience proves otherwise.
                                      >
                                      > Net so far - 212 DXCC entities in the last 18 months ( most with 100W )
                                      > . 1000+ 6 meter contacts 1000+ digital contacts..
                                      >
                                      > 73
                                      > Joel
                                      > KQ0J
                                      >
                                      > On 6/19/2013 11:42 PM, Alex Netherton wrote:
                                      > > "Tuner instructions say tuner should be "well-grounded" to the
                                      > transmitter
                                      > > from the GROUND post on the tuner. Does "well-grounded" simply mean
                                      > I run
                                      > > any gauge/any wire between the tuner (wing nut GND) and my FT897D (GND
                                      > > screw)?"
                                      > >
                                      > > Ah, no. It means that your transmitter *and* tuner should be
                                      > grounded to a
                                      > > good earth ground. An earth ground is ideally a braided copper strap of
                                      > > about 1 inch going from the back of the rig - tuner - etc to the ground
                                      > > outside the shack, which is (again) ideally a 4 foot ground rod made of
                                      > > copper (expensive!!!) or at least copper clad steel. Even more ideally,
                                      > > four of them in parallel.
                                      > >
                                      > > " Balanced Line-Fed Antenna - Tuner instructions say run a jumper
                                      > wire from
                                      > > Wire post to one of the two Balance Line posts. Does that mean I
                                      > simply run
                                      > > any gauge/any wire between the Wire post and the Balance Line post?"
                                      > Yes,
                                      > > but you still need a good ground.
                                      > >
                                      > > If you can't put in a good earth ground, try routing a wire of heavy
                                      > gauge
                                      > > to something made of metal that is ultimately connected to the earth. If
                                      > > you live far up in an apartment, I would suggest an MFJ Artificial
                                      > > Ground... They work! At any rate, a ground is necessary to keep pesky RF
                                      > > out of the shack.
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > 73
                                      >
                                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > No virus found in this message.
                                      > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
                                      > Version: 2012.0.2242 / Virus Database: 3199/5926 - Release Date: 06/20/13
                                      >

                                      --
                                      KQØJ



                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • bob
                                      ... Good earthing or rather bonding need not be expensive. I use the sort of copper tape used for wrapping some sorts of power cables, its about 50mm wide and
                                      Message 18 of 22 , Jun 20, 2013
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        >
                                        > Electrical (utility) ground is NOT a RF ground.
                                        >
                                        Good earthing or rather bonding need not be expensive. I use the sort of copper tape used for wrapping some sorts of power cables, its about 50mm wide and about 0.1 mm thick (about 5mm^2)and is wrapped in a spiral around some power cable cores. Off cuts or ends of runs are not too hard to get hold of if you can find a local cable manufacturer. Nothing comes close to it for tying two pieces of equipment together electrically. Its thin enough to be bent and curved where ever you need ( and torn across like heavy paper if you have strong fingers)but wide enough to be ultra low inductance.

                                        Regards Bob ZS6BXI
                                      • n5dtx
                                        All hail the heretic!!! I love stories like this! (seriously!) It makes me feel better regarding some of the radio heresy I commit from time to time. Thanks
                                        Message 19 of 22 , Jun 20, 2013
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          All hail the heretic!!!

                                          I love stories like this! (seriously!) It makes me feel better regarding some of the radio heresy I commit from time to time.

                                          Thanks for sharing Joel,

                                          Graham
                                          N5DTX

                                          --- In FT897@yahoogroups.com, Joel <hiqual@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > On the subject of grounding and RFI - here is my experience with my
                                          > FT-897 and
                                          > grounding in my own shack.
                                          >
                                          > First off I am an Heretick - I have *no ground connection* other than
                                          > what exists through
                                          > the power plug on the wall.
                                        • Dennis
                                          Simply put Joel, your RF ground IS NOT an electrical ground. If there are NO electrical connections (i.e - a ground wire from an outlet or breaker box to your
                                          Message 20 of 22 , Jun 20, 2013
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            Simply put Joel, your RF ground IS NOT an electrical ground. If there
                                            are NO electrical connections (i.e - a ground wire from an outlet or
                                            breaker box to your RF ground) you ARE NOT in violation. If all that is
                                            tied (connected) to the RF ground are the chassis of radios and maybe
                                            shields of coax, there is NO ELECTRICAL CONNECTION - HENCE NO NEC
                                            VIOLATION - HENCE NO INSURANCE ISSUES.

                                            AN RF CONNECTION IS NOT AN ELECTRICAL CONNECTION!!!!

                                            HOWEVER, I will agree that a ground is not always necessary. If the
                                            antenna is placed far enough away from the shack or arranged in a way
                                            that RF is "pointing" away from the shack/equipment, there should be no
                                            issue with RF in the shack. Just like Joel, I do not use a ground and
                                            have no issues. This stuff is NOT rocket science, people. Just a
                                            little pre-planning and thinking before "JUST DOING" saves much aggravation!

                                            Dennis - N8BMB
                                            On 6/20/2013 10:52, Joel wrote:
                                            >
                                            > On the subject of grounding and RFI - here is my experience with my
                                            > FT-897 and
                                            > grounding in my own shack.
                                            >
                                            > First off I am an Heretick - I have *no ground connection* other than
                                            > what exists through
                                            > the power plug on the wall. I have a 2nd floor shack and no easy way to
                                            > install a ground
                                            > rod under me - last time I tried I ended up drilling into 12 inches of
                                            > concrete in an attempt
                                            > to reach earth and ran out of drill. Actually I decided not to install
                                            > one then because I would
                                            > then have an out of code ground rod that was not tied in with the
                                            > service panel ground rod.
                                            > My understanding is that NEC requires all grounding systems to be tied
                                            > together at the
                                            > utility ground.
                                            >
                                            > My rig works very well and I have no problems with RFI now that I have
                                            > mitigated them and
                                            > run antenna connections carefully. I installed a grounding bar on my
                                            > shack desk and tie all
                                            > equipment to this one bus with short runs of wire. 10 Ga stranded for
                                            > the long runs 14 ga
                                            > solid for the short ones.
                                            >
                                            > I run a multi band trap dipole fed with coax as well as a 60 meter loop
                                            > fed with 450 ohm ladder line that comes into the
                                            > shack. Also a 6 meter squalo and 2 VHF / UHF antennas. I tune that
                                            > loop for all bands 80-6 with a LDG 600pro
                                            > tuner - I also do that with the dipole as needed. I also use a MFJ 993
                                            > b on occasion. I run
                                            > up to 600 watts out from my amplifier with no issues on the FT897.
                                            > Nothing in the shack is
                                            > hot with RF even at high power ( now that I made those changes ).
                                            >
                                            > I have had to make sure that all my coax runs are kept separated by a
                                            > few inches , run neatly and
                                            > kept at least 8 inches away from the ladder line. I had to add ferrites
                                            > to USB cables to the PC that
                                            > I use for rig control and Digital modes. I use toroids on the CAT cable
                                            > to the rig.
                                            >
                                            > In the past 40 + years as a Ham, I have run from many locations in
                                            > Condos , Apartments and such and never had to use
                                            > an earth ground. I have also had multiple locations where it was
                                            > convenient to run a ground and did so.
                                            >
                                            > You would think that a station like mine would need a good earth ground,
                                            > but my experience proves otherwise.
                                            >
                                            > Net so far - 212 DXCC entities in the last 18 months ( most with 100W )
                                            > . 1000+ 6 meter contacts 1000+ digital contacts..
                                            >
                                            > 73
                                            > Joel
                                            > KQ0J
                                            >
                                            > On 6/19/2013 11:42 PM, Alex Netherton wrote:
                                            > > "Tuner instructions say tuner should be "well-grounded" to the
                                            > transmitter
                                            > > from the GROUND post on the tuner. Does "well-grounded" simply mean
                                            > I run
                                            > > any gauge/any wire between the tuner (wing nut GND) and my FT897D (GND
                                            > > screw)?"
                                            > >
                                            > > Ah, no. It means that your transmitter *and* tuner should be
                                            > grounded to a
                                            > > good earth ground. An earth ground is ideally a braided copper strap of
                                            > > about 1 inch going from the back of the rig - tuner - etc to the ground
                                            > > outside the shack, which is (again) ideally a 4 foot ground rod made of
                                            > > copper (expensive!!!) or at least copper clad steel. Even more ideally,
                                            > > four of them in parallel.
                                            > >
                                            > > " Balanced Line-Fed Antenna - Tuner instructions say run a jumper
                                            > wire from
                                            > > Wire post to one of the two Balance Line posts. Does that mean I
                                            > simply run
                                            > > any gauge/any wire between the Wire post and the Balance Line post?"
                                            > Yes,
                                            > > but you still need a good ground.
                                            > >
                                            > > If you can't put in a good earth ground, try routing a wire of heavy
                                            > gauge
                                            > > to something made of metal that is ultimately connected to the earth. If
                                            > > you live far up in an apartment, I would suggest an MFJ Artificial
                                            > > Ground... They work! At any rate, a ground is necessary to keep pesky RF
                                            > > out of the shack.
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > 73
                                            >
                                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            >
                                            >



                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • Joel
                                            Thanks for the clarification! ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            Message 21 of 22 , Jun 20, 2013
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              Thanks for the clarification!

                                              On 6/20/2013 4:19 PM, Dennis wrote:
                                              >
                                              > Simply put Joel, your RF ground IS NOT an electrical ground. If there
                                              > are NO electrical connections (i.e - a ground wire from an outlet or
                                              > breaker box to your RF ground) you ARE NOT in violation. If all that is
                                              > tied (connected) to the RF ground are the chassis of radios and maybe
                                              > shields of coax, there is NO ELECTRICAL CONNECTION - HENCE NO NEC
                                              > VIOLATION - HENCE NO INSURANCE ISSUES.
                                              >
                                              > AN RF CONNECTION IS NOT AN ELECTRICAL CONNECTION!!!!
                                              >
                                              > HOWEVER, I will agree that a ground is not always necessary. If the
                                              > antenna is placed far enough away from the shack or arranged in a way
                                              > that RF is "pointing" away from the shack/equipment, there should be no
                                              > issue with RF in the shack. Just like Joel, I do not use a ground and
                                              > have no issues. This stuff is NOT rocket science, people. Just a
                                              > little pre-planning and thinking before "JUST DOING" saves much
                                              > aggravation!
                                              >
                                              > Dennis - N8BMB
                                              > On 6/20/2013 10:52, Joel wrote:
                                              >



                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            • Alex Netherton
                                              For those who are hard nosed about grounding, I wonder about 2nd or 3rd or higher apartment dwellers? I think a good counterpoise can go a long way, and the
                                              Message 22 of 22 , Jul 2, 2013
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                For those who are hard nosed about grounding, I wonder about 2nd or 3rd or
                                                higher apartment dwellers? I think a good counterpoise can go a long way,
                                                and the MFJ "Artificial Ground" can work wonders.
                                                My $.02
                                                KC4BO


                                                On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 3:55 PM, n5dtx <dgbryant@...> wrote:

                                                > **
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > All hail the heretic!!!
                                                >
                                                > I love stories like this! (seriously!) It makes me feel better regarding
                                                > some of the radio heresy I commit from time to time.
                                                >
                                                > Thanks for sharing Joel,
                                                >
                                                > Graham
                                                > N5DTX
                                                >
                                                > --- In FT897@yahoogroups.com, Joel <hiqual@...> wrote:
                                                > >
                                                > > On the subject of grounding and RFI - here is my experience with my
                                                > > FT-897 and
                                                > > grounding in my own shack.
                                                > >
                                                > > First off I am an Heretick - I have *no ground connection* other than
                                                > > what exists through
                                                > > the power plug on the wall.
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >



                                                --
                                                Alex Netherton
                                                http://blueridgediscovery.com


                                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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