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Re: [FT897] CQ’s From the South Rim of the Grand Canyon

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  • tjscroop
    thank you for the quick response. It will give me something to do when I get back to the big smoke of Adelaide (capital of South Australia) Cheers, Trevor
    Message 1 of 25 , Mar 26, 2013
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      thank you for the quick response. It will give me something to do when I get back to the big smoke of Adelaide (capital of South Australia)

      Cheers,

      Trevor VK5FTJS (mobile VK8 in a very hot Northern Territory +40C)

      From: Harris
      Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2013 12:48 PM
      To: FT897@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [FT897] CQ’s From the South Rim of the Grand Canyon


      Answer to Trevor’s question below: The battery (K2 Energy Solutions) has what I believe is called F-Type terminal connectors, also called F2 Faston connectors. This is a rectangular metal tab that takes a rectangular metal sleeve that slides on to it.

      I ordered a short piece of red/black cable from PowerWerx which has the F-Type connector slide-ons on one end, and Anderson PowerPole connectors on the other end. I ordered a second short piece of cable from PowerWerx with the FT-897’s power connector (called a Molex type 6-pin connector) on one end and Anderson PowerPole connectors on the other end. I made myself a third short piece of cable with two fuse holders in the middle (using 25 amp fuses) and Anderson PowerPole connectors at both ends. I connect these 3 cables together (I assume PowerWerx could construct all of this into one cable, but I want them separate for other possible uses). So, to summarize I connect the battery to the radio with F-Type slide-on connectors on the battery end, the Molex 6-pin connector on the radio end, with fuse holders in the middle.

      When I use the radio on battery power, I just disconnect the Molex power connector that is connected from the radio’s built-in power supply, and plug in the Molex power connector that is part of the 3 cable series described above. If this isn’t clear let me know and I will try to take some pictures and post them on flickr.

      At the risk of too much information, I actually have a fourth short piece of cable with a small “Watt’s Up” meter and PowerPole connectors on both ends. This meter shows me things like current voltage, current amperage, accumulated amp-hours used, and minimum voltage during current session. I add this cable into the series of cables that connect battery with radio to keep track of these numbers. The FT-897’s manual says it needs a minimum voltage of 11.7v. So I check voltage under transmitting load and make sure it doesn’t go below 11.7. The battery is rated at 9.6 amp-hours capacity. During my Grand Canyon experience I used the radio for a combined 5-6 hours over 2 days (I foolishly forgot to recharge the battery overnight), transmitting approx. 30-40% of the time, using 100W power, and never got below 12v battery output on transmit. During that 5-6 hours of use the total amp-hour usage was about 7 amp-hours. So the radio is very efficient, and the battery is amazing.

      Pete, KE6ZIW

      From: mailto:FT897%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:mailto:FT897%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mailto:tjscroop%40bigpond.net.au
      Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 4:01 PM
      To: mailto:FT897%40yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [FT897] CQ’s From the South Rim of the Grand Canyon

      great pictures Pete,

      how did you install the battery, was it directly to the main power input or did you bypass it and make something else up?

      cheers

      Trevor
      VK5FTJS (mobile VK8)

      From: Pete
      Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2013 1:16 AM
      To: mailto:FT897%40yahoogroups.com <mailto:FT897%40yahoogroups.com>
      Subject: [FT897] CQ’s From the South Rim of the Grand Canyon

      On the mornings of March 9 and 10, 2013, I used a Buddipole antenna as part of a portable HF radio station that I set up right next to the rim of the Grand Canyon. As a fairly new HF'er and Buddipoler, the results were amazing to me – an experience I will always remember. I've posted a few pictures and some descriptive text (down the left column) on my Flickr account. You can see these at:

      < http://www.flickr.com/photos/11636522@N06/sets/72157633054005624/ >
      (you can copy and paste the URL into your browser)

      Pete, KE6ZIW

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    • n7mch
      Pete, I would really appreciate seeing pictures of how you connected the battery. I am very bad at visualizing from descriptions. Graphics and images help a
      Message 2 of 25 , Mar 27, 2013
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        Pete,
        I would really appreciate seeing pictures of how you connected the
        battery. I am very bad at visualizing from descriptions. Graphics and
        images help a lot.
        Your pictures were very much worth your "mistake" of posting to this
        group. Please keep making the same mistakes when you go on future
        outings. :-)
        Thanks and
        73 de N7MCH Walt
        --- In FT897@yahoogroups.com, "Harris" <odyssey570@...> wrote:
        >
        > Answer to Trevor’s question below: The battery (K2 Energy
        Solutions) has what I believe is called F-Type terminal connectors, also
        called F2 Faston connectors. This is a rectangular metal tab that takes
        a rectangular metal sleeve that slides on to it.
        >
        > I ordered a short piece of red/black cable from PowerWerx which has
        the F-Type connector slide-ons on one end, and Anderson PowerPole
        connectors on the other end. I ordered a second short piece of cable
        from PowerWerx with the FT-897’s power connector (called a Molex
        type 6-pin connector) on one end and Anderson PowerPole connectors on
        the other end. I made myself a third short piece of cable with two fuse
        holders in the middle (using 25 amp fuses) and Anderson PowerPole
        connectors at both ends. I connect these 3 cables together (I assume
        PowerWerx could construct all of this into one cable, but I want them
        separate for other possible uses). So, to summarize I connect the
        battery to the radio with F-Type slide-on connectors on the battery end,
        the Molex 6-pin connector on the radio end, with fuse holders in the
        middle.
        >
        > When I use the radio on battery power, I just disconnect the Molex
        power connector that is connected from the radio’s built-in power
        supply, and plug in the Molex power connector that is part of the 3
        cable series described above. If this isn’t clear let me know and
        I will try to take some pictures and post them on flickr.
        >
        > At the risk of too much information, I actually have a fourth short
        piece of cable with a small “Watt’s Up” meter and
        PowerPole connectors on both ends. This meter shows me things like
        current voltage, current amperage, accumulated amp-hours used, and
        minimum voltage during current session. I add this cable into the series
        of cables that connect battery with radio to keep track of these
        numbers. The FT-897’s manual says it needs a minimum voltage of
        11.7v. So I check voltage under transmitting load and make sure it
        doesn’t go below 11.7. The battery is rated at 9.6 amp-hours
        capacity. During my Grand Canyon experience I used the radio for a
        combined 5-6 hours over 2 days (I foolishly forgot to recharge the
        battery overnight), transmitting approx. 30-40% of the time, using 100W
        power, and never got below 12v battery output on transmit. During that
        5-6 hours of use the total amp-hour usage was about 7 amp-hours. So the
        radio is very efficient, and the battery is amazing.
        >
        > Pete, KE6ZIW
        >
        >
        >
        > From: FT897@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FT897@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
        Of tjscroop@...
        > Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 4:01 PM
        > To: FT897@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: Re: [FT897] CQ’s From the South Rim of the Grand
        Canyon
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > great pictures Pete,
        >
        > how did you install the battery, was it directly to the main power
        input or did you bypass it and make something else up?
        >
        > cheers
        >
        > Trevor
        > VK5FTJS (mobile VK8)
        >
        > From: Pete
        > Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2013 1:16 AM
        > To: FT897@yahoogroups.com <mailto:FT897%40yahoogroups.com>
        > Subject: [FT897] CQ’s From the South Rim of the Grand Canyon
        >
        > On the mornings of March 9 and 10, 2013, I used a Buddipole antenna as
        part of a portable HF radio station that I set up right next to the rim
        of the Grand Canyon. As a fairly new HF'er and Buddipoler, the results
        were amazing to me â€" an experience I will always remember. I've
        posted a few pictures and some descriptive text (down the left column)
        on my Flickr account. You can see these at:
        >
        > < http://www.flickr.com/photos/11636522@N06/sets/72157633054005624/ >
        > (you can copy and paste the URL into your browser)
        >
        > Pete, KE6ZIW
        >
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        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Pete
        Below is a link to some photos I put up of the 4 short cables, which I attempted to describe in my previous post, that I use to connect my battery (K2 Energy)
        Message 3 of 25 , Mar 27, 2013
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          Below is a link to some photos I put up of the 4 short cables, which I attempted to describe in my previous post, that I use to connect my battery (K2 Energy) with my Yaesu FT-897D radio. Though I've made several PowerPole cables before, these cables and meter were all ordered from the PowerWerx company (under "Adapter Cables" and "Digital Meters"). To connect the battery, I just disconnect the Molex 6-pin connector that comes from the radio's built-in power supply, and connect the Moles 6-pin connector at the end of the series of cables shown in the pictures.

          < http://www.flickr.com/photos/11636522@N06/sets/72157633102638443/ >
          (you can copy and paste link into your browser)

          The battery I got has a 9.6 amp-hour capacity, is about 6"x4"x2" in size and weighs a bit over 2 lbs. During my Grand Canyon adventure mine ran the radio well on full 100 watts transmitting power for at least 5-6 hours. The model I have has a built-in "Battery Management System"(BMS) which protects it from overcharging, becoming undercharged, cell imbalance, and other things that can damage a lithium iron phosphate (LiFePo) battery. This model does not require a smart charger (in fact should not use one) because the built-in BMS provides the smartness. Any 3-4 amp (not more), 12v charger will do for charging. This type of battery keeps its charge for a long period of non-use, and maintains a very steady voltage rate during use, until it is close to being depleted. Mine has performed beautifully so far.

          Pete, KE6ZIW
        • tjscroop
          Nice set up Pete and thank you for sharing Trevor VK5FTJS (mobile VK8) From: Pete Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2013 7:24 AM To: FT897@yahoogroups.com Subject:
          Message 4 of 25 , Mar 27, 2013
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            Nice set up Pete and thank you for sharing

            Trevor
            VK5FTJS (mobile VK8)


            From: Pete
            Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2013 7:24 AM
            To: FT897@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [FT897] Re: CQ's From Grand Canyon - Photos of Battery-to-Radio Connection Cables




            Below is a link to some photos I put up of the 4 short cables, which I attempted to describe in my previous post, that I use to connect my battery (K2 Energy) with my Yaesu FT-897D radio. Though I've made several PowerPole cables before, these cables and meter were all ordered from the PowerWerx company (under "Adapter Cables" and "Digital Meters"). To connect the battery, I just disconnect the Molex 6-pin connector that comes from the radio's built-in power supply, and connect the Moles 6-pin connector at the end of the series of cables shown in the pictures.

            < http://www.flickr.com/photos/11636522@N06/sets/72157633102638443/ >
            (you can copy and paste link into your browser)

            The battery I got has a 9.6 amp-hour capacity, is about 6"x4"x2" in size and weighs a bit over 2 lbs. During my Grand Canyon adventure mine ran the radio well on full 100 watts transmitting power for at least 5-6 hours. The model I have has a built-in "Battery Management System"(BMS) which protects it from overcharging, becoming undercharged, cell imbalance, and other things that can damage a lithium iron phosphate (LiFePo) battery. This model does not require a smart charger (in fact should not use one) because the built-in BMS provides the smartness. Any 3-4 amp (not more), 12v charger will do for charging. This type of battery keeps its charge for a long period of non-use, and maintains a very steady voltage rate during use, until it is close to being depleted. Mine has performed beautifully so far.

            Pete, KE6ZIW







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          • dcawood
            Pete and all, What do you use to charge the K2 Energy K2B12V10EB 12V 10Ah Lithium Iron Phosphate Battery BMS and ensure it is charged fully, etc? I am planning
            Message 5 of 25 , Mar 31, 2013
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              Pete and all,

              What do you use to charge the K2 Energy K2B12V10EB 12V 10Ah Lithium Iron Phosphate Battery BMS and ensure it is charged fully, etc?

              I am planning a go kit, its not going to be light but it will have everything I need, I hope. Please anyone tell me what you think. I am new to HAM and want to make sure I get this project right the first time.

              OK. The enclosure is a multi stack enclosure from http://www.tac-comm.com/. I may get a pelican case that it can fit into just for packing and travel, not to work out of like a rack mount enclosure.

              This would be a complete kit for the purpose of immediate pack n go, with ample power stores.

              The first/bottom shelf would have the LifePo battery that Pete is using.

              The second/middle shelf would have an Astron SS-30M power supply. The First and second shelf contents are debatable, I do want to radio on top to get it closer to eye level.

              The third/top shelf would be the 897D Radio that is already loded with two internal batteries and the tac comm top plate would enclose the top shelf.

              The battery, Power Supply, and 897 would all have power pole ends.

              There will be a 897 batter charger installed with a molex 6 pin to power pole and ac adapter for charging from AC or the Power supply.

              The power supply may connect to a powerpole splitter that will allow charging of the batteries at the same time.

              Also, another idea from Pete, there will be a watts'up meter brought to the face of the unit to monitor the incoming voltage.

              Inline fuses to all power sources.

              To top it off, a buddipole system will be used for HF?

              Any ideas of a good VHF/UHF packable antenna system?

              These are my thoughts so far, hasn't reached paper yet, As I said I am a new HAM and would very much appreciate and all critical analysis from the new to the very experienced HAMs out there as this will be my go to radio package.

              Regards,
              Donovan - KF5TSH

              --- In FT897@yahoogroups.com, "Pete" <odyssey570@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              >
              > Below is a link to some photos I put up of the 4 short cables, which I attempted to describe in my previous post, that I use to connect my battery (K2 Energy) with my Yaesu FT-897D radio. Though I've made several PowerPole cables before, these cables and meter were all ordered from the PowerWerx company (under "Adapter Cables" and "Digital Meters"). To connect the battery, I just disconnect the Molex 6-pin connector that comes from the radio's built-in power supply, and connect the Moles 6-pin connector at the end of the series of cables shown in the pictures.
              >
              > < http://www.flickr.com/photos/11636522@N06/sets/72157633102638443/ >
              > (you can copy and paste link into your browser)
              >
              > The battery I got has a 9.6 amp-hour capacity, is about 6"x4"x2" in size and weighs a bit over 2 lbs. During my Grand Canyon adventure mine ran the radio well on full 100 watts transmitting power for at least 5-6 hours. The model I have has a built-in "Battery Management System"(BMS) which protects it from overcharging, becoming undercharged, cell imbalance, and other things that can damage a lithium iron phosphate (LiFePo) battery. This model does not require a smart charger (in fact should not use one) because the built-in BMS provides the smartness. Any 3-4 amp (not more), 12v charger will do for charging. This type of battery keeps its charge for a long period of non-use, and maintains a very steady voltage rate during use, until it is close to being depleted. Mine has performed beautifully so far.
              >
              > Pete, KE6ZIW
              >
            • Harris
              Info regarding charger: I charge the K2 Energy battery (with built-in Battery Management System ), model # K2B12V10EB, with a charger that I bought from the
              Message 6 of 25 , Mar 31, 2013
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                Info regarding charger:
                I charge the K2 Energy battery (with built-in "Battery Management System"),
                model # K2B12V10EB, with a charger that I bought from the K2 Energy company
                (http://store.peakbattery.com/12v3achargers.html), phone # (702) 478-3590.
                The charger has no brand name on it. The writing on it says:

                AC/DC Adapter
                Model: LFPC 12V3A
                Input: 100-240VAC, 50/60Hz, 1.5A
                Output: DC 14.4V, 3.0A MAX

                The K2 company says this model LiFePo battery should not use a smart charger
                because of the built-in "Battery Management System" (BMS). It say it does
                not need any specialized charger. With this charger, the battery takes a
                maximum of about 4 hours to charge when fully depleted. The cost for their
                charger is $49, which sounds high for a basic 3 amp charger. The company
                includes a little adapter with F-Type (faston) connectors, which goes on to
                the battery. The charger has a red/green light to indicate when the battery
                is fully charged (I can't remember which color means what).

                Pete, KE6ZIW



                From: FT897@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FT897@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                dcawood
                Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2013 9:34 AM
                To: FT897@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [FT897] 897D Go Kit Project





                Pete and all,

                What do you use to charge the K2 Energy K2B12V10EB 12V 10Ah Lithium Iron
                Phosphate Battery BMS and ensure it is charged fully, etc?

                I am planning a go kit, its not going to be light but it will have
                everything I need, I hope. Please anyone tell me what you think. I am new to
                HAM and want to make sure I get this project right the first time.

                OK. The enclosure is a multi stack enclosure from http://www.tac-comm.com/.
                <http://www.tac-comm.com/> I may get a pelican case that it can fit into
                just for packing and travel, not to work out of like a rack mount enclosure.


                This would be a complete kit for the purpose of immediate pack n go, with
                ample power stores.

                The first/bottom shelf would have the LifePo battery that Pete is using.

                The second/middle shelf would have an Astron SS-30M power supply. The First
                and second shelf contents are debatable, I do want to radio on top to get it
                closer to eye level.

                The third/top shelf would be the 897D Radio that is already loded with two
                internal batteries and the tac comm top plate would enclose the top shelf.

                The battery, Power Supply, and 897 would all have power pole ends.

                There will be a 897 batter charger installed with a molex 6 pin to power
                pole and ac adapter for charging from AC or the Power supply.

                The power supply may connect to a powerpole splitter that will allow
                charging of the batteries at the same time.

                Also, another idea from Pete, there will be a watts'up meter brought to the
                face of the unit to monitor the incoming voltage.

                Inline fuses to all power sources.

                To top it off, a buddipole system will be used for HF?

                Any ideas of a good VHF/UHF packable antenna system?

                These are my thoughts so far, hasn't reached paper yet, As I said I am a new
                HAM and would very much appreciate and all critical analysis from the new to
                the very experienced HAMs out there as this will be my go to radio package.

                Regards,
                Donovan - KF5TSH

                --- In FT897@yahoogroups.com <mailto:FT897%40yahoogroups.com> , "Pete"
                <odyssey570@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                >
                > Below is a link to some photos I put up of the 4 short cables, which I
                attempted to describe in my previous post, that I use to connect my battery
                (K2 Energy) with my Yaesu FT-897D radio. Though I've made several PowerPole
                cables before, these cables and meter were all ordered from the PowerWerx
                company (under "Adapter Cables" and "Digital Meters"). To connect the
                battery, I just disconnect the Molex 6-pin connector that comes from the
                radio's built-in power supply, and connect the Moles 6-pin connector at the
                end of the series of cables shown in the pictures.
                >
                > < http://www.flickr.com/photos/11636522@N06/sets/72157633102638443/ >
                > (you can copy and paste link into your browser)
                >
                > The battery I got has a 9.6 amp-hour capacity, is about 6"x4"x2" in size
                and weighs a bit over 2 lbs. During my Grand Canyon adventure mine ran the
                radio well on full 100 watts transmitting power for at least 5-6 hours. The
                model I have has a built-in "Battery Management System"(BMS) which protects
                it from overcharging, becoming undercharged, cell imbalance, and other
                things that can damage a lithium iron phosphate (LiFePo) battery. This model
                does not require a smart charger (in fact should not use one) because the
                built-in BMS provides the smartness. Any 3-4 amp (not more), 12v charger
                will do for charging. This type of battery keeps its charge for a long
                period of non-use, and maintains a very steady voltage rate during use,
                until it is close to being depleted. Mine has performed beautifully so far.
                >
                > Pete, KE6ZIW
                >





                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Jason Turning
                Hello Donovan, The K2 Energy battery with battery management system can be charged by any 12v charger as long as it isn t a conditioning type (voltage pulses
                Message 7 of 25 , Mar 31, 2013
                • 0 Attachment
                  Hello Donovan,

                  The K2 Energy battery with battery management system can be charged by any 12v
                  charger as long as it isn't a conditioning type (voltage pulses for
                  desulfation). I found you can also just plug it direction into your vehicle
                  while driving or home power supply as the BMS will control charge and shut down
                  once charged. You might look at the PWRgate for a nifty solution for
                  automatically using battery or power supply and replace the charger:

                  http://ki0bk.no-ip.com/~PWRgate/LLPG/Site/Welcome.html

                  This will use your power supply if on and switch automatically to battery if
                  off with the added benefit of charging your battery(s) off the power supply
                  when on. I use it here and have a couple gel cells plugged in. When I get back
                  from portable ops I'll plug my K2 Energy battery into it as well (instead of
                  the gel cells). And I've used the Watts Up meter to monitor the K2 Energy
                  battery with these different charging methods to verify the BMS controls
                  amperage on charge and shuts off when done. I used to just plug my Battery
                  Tender walwart charger I keep on my motorcycle into it when I came back from
                  portable trips.

                  I own a Mini-Buddipole and have been very happy with it as you can see picks on
                  my QRZ (the beams require extra parts). Here's a free book to learn how to get
                  the most out of a Buddipole and ways to configure it and make it more efficient:

                  http://lib.store.yahoo.net/lib/buddipole/buddipoleinthefield2.pdf

                  You might also consider fishing pole, fiberglass mast and wire antennas. There
                  on longwires, dipoles, Par EFHW antennas....

                  A simple VHF/UHF solution would be a ladder line j-pole, make or buy N9TAX's
                  Slim Jim, and you could just hang this off a collapsible fishing pole bungied
                  to something or hang from a tree. I have N9TAX's slim jim and its a great
                  antenna that rolls up nicely with the coax attached. You can also use the
                  Buddipole for VHF and UHF but you might have to fabricate something for the
                  short piece to make a UHF j-pole. There are lots of other VHF/UHF antenna
                  solutions and antennas to check out. You might look at the Arrow portable
                  beams/j-pole and the Elk Antenna beam. I have the 4 element Arrow Backpacker
                  beam and you could also do it as a 3 element beam mounted vertically off the
                  Buddipole mast from its back end (or get their 3 element instead and remove the
                  handle).

                  http://www.n9tax.com/Slim%20Jim%20Info.html
                  http://www.arrowantennas.com/osj/j-pole.html
                  http://www.elkantennas.com/2m4405element.htm

                  Enjoy the search and be sure to have fun with it all in the field as you'll
                  learn a lot about using these tools effectively by playing with them.

                  73,
                  Jason - N6WBL

                  On 03/31/2013 09:34 AM, dcawood wrote:
                  > Pete and all,
                  >
                  > What do you use to charge the K2 Energy K2B12V10EB 12V 10Ah Lithium Iron
                  > Phosphate Battery BMS and ensure it is charged fully, etc?
                  >
                  > I am planning a go kit, its not going to be light but it will have
                  > everything I need, I hope. Please anyone tell me what you think. I am new to
                  > HAM and want to make sure I get this project right the first time.
                  >
                  > OK. The enclosure is a multi stack enclosure from http://www.tac-comm.com/.
                  > I may get a pelican case that it can fit into just for packing and travel,
                  > not to work out of like a rack mount enclosure.
                  >
                  > This would be a complete kit for the purpose of immediate pack n go, with
                  > ample power stores.
                  >
                  > The first/bottom shelf would have the LifePo battery that Pete is using.
                  >
                  > The second/middle shelf would have an Astron SS-30M power supply. The First
                  > and second shelf contents are debatable, I do want to radio on top to get it
                  > closer to eye level.
                  >
                  > The third/top shelf would be the 897D Radio that is already loded with two
                  > internal batteries and the tac comm top plate would enclose the top shelf.
                  >
                  > The battery, Power Supply, and 897 would all have power pole ends.
                  >
                  > There will be a 897 batter charger installed with a molex 6 pin to power
                  > pole and ac adapter for charging from AC or the Power supply.
                  >
                  > The power supply may connect to a powerpole splitter that will allow
                  > charging of the batteries at the same time.
                  >
                  > Also, another idea from Pete, there will be a watts'up meter brought to the
                  > face of the unit to monitor the incoming voltage.
                  >
                  > Inline fuses to all power sources.
                  >
                  > To top it off, a buddipole system will be used for HF?
                  >
                  > Any ideas of a good VHF/UHF packable antenna system?
                  >
                  > These are my thoughts so far, hasn't reached paper yet, As I said I am a new
                  > HAM and would very much appreciate and all critical analysis from the new to
                  > the very experienced HAMs out there as this will be my go to radio package.
                  >
                  >
                  > Regards, Donovan - KF5TSH
                • Pete
                  Hi Jason. Though I may not totally understand all of your response in regard to charging of the K2 LiFePo BMS battery with a 12v power supply, I believe the K2
                  Message 8 of 25 , Apr 1, 2013
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Hi Jason. Though I may not totally understand all of your response in regard to charging of the K2 LiFePo BMS battery with a 12v power supply, I believe the K2 Energy company does not recommend doing that. When I purchased my K2 12v 9.6Ah BMS battery, I asked them on the phone about using a power supply for charging. The response was that, despite the BMS system, the battery would draw too many amps from a power supply and would have its life shortened. I believe they told me they recommend against any charger that is capable of providing more than 10 amps. They recommended a 3-4 amp charger. The 3 amp charger that I got from them, only takes about 4 hours to charge the battery when fully depleted (and usually less).

                    By the way Jason, it was in regard to your description of this battery in a post here several months ago that I purchased it. So far I am extremely impressed with it. It has performed marvelously. However, their website is not easy to figure out. I had to phone them to figure out what I wanted. They were very helpful on the phone.

                    Pete, KE6ZIW
                    ==================

                    --- In FT897@yahoogroups.com, Jason Turning <jturning@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hello Donovan,
                    >
                    > The K2 Energy battery with battery management system can be charged by any 12v
                    > charger as long as it isn't a conditioning type (voltage pulses for
                    > desulfation). I found you can also just plug it direction into your vehicle
                    > while driving or home power supply as the BMS will control charge and shut down
                    > once charged. You might look at the PWRgate for a nifty solution for
                    > automatically using battery or power supply and replace the charger:
                    >
                    > http://ki0bk.no-ip.com/~PWRgate/LLPG/Site/Welcome.html
                    >
                    > This will use your power supply if on and switch automatically to battery if
                    > off with the added benefit of charging your battery(s) off the power supply
                    > when on. I use it here and have a couple gel cells plugged in. When I get back
                    > from portable ops I'll plug my K2 Energy battery into it as well (instead of
                    > the gel cells). And I've used the Watts Up meter to monitor the K2 Energy
                    > battery with these different charging methods to verify the BMS controls
                    > amperage on charge and shuts off when done. I used to just plug my Battery
                    > Tender walwart charger I keep on my motorcycle into it when I came back from
                    > portable trips.
                    Responder edited out the rest of post
                  • Jason Turning
                    Hello Pete, I stumbled upon this in the California QSO Party where I went out and operated mobile from a couple counties using the K2 Energy LiFePo (really I
                    Message 9 of 25 , Apr 1, 2013
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Hello Pete,

                      I stumbled upon this in the California QSO Party where I went out and operated
                      mobile from a couple counties using the K2 Energy LiFePo (really I just threw
                      my Hustler up on the roof and the rig on the dash). Between spots I plugged the
                      battery into the cigarette lighter with the Watt's Up meter in line for it to
                      charge off the truck's alternator. I noticed that it was charging at only 3
                      amps and slowly dropping as the battery was getting full. The BMS totally shut
                      off charging by the time I made it to the second spot. Someone asked me about
                      plugging it directly into the power supply and I did with the Watt's Up meter
                      inline and it was the same, amperage was low and went down to eventually
                      shutting it off (verified by both the Watt's Up and amp meter on my Astron
                      RM-20M). I saw somewhere where the version I have was a direct replacement for
                      my Cyberpower UPS unit, so the BMS was developed so the battery could be put
                      into regular 12v devices without needing a charging system rework. Myself I
                      wouldn't regularly plug it into the power supply directly unless I had to, but
                      the BMS does control the current coming into the battery. After all that is the
                      whole point of the BMS in protecting the battery from things that could make it
                      fail in a catastrophic way since it wouldn't be used with specialized LiFePo
                      chargers. The BMS also shuts it off with excessive drain as well (short
                      protection). The data sheet I had said that the base 10 Ah battery itself is
                      rated at 7amps charge and 25 amp draw (24 amp draw on the 7 Ah).

                      Regarding the company and this modern litigious society we live in, I would
                      certainly understand why they wouldn't say you could just plug it into a power
                      supply. And why they would stick to chargers within the battery's ratings but
                      then even those would be dangerous if the BMS wasn't performing as it should.
                      But fortunately us hams like to tinker with things and see what they'll do.
                      Also, that person you spoke with might not fully understand the BMS built into
                      the battery. For anyone getting one of these and using it outside their
                      recommendations, do run a meter on it and make sure your BMS is operating in
                      the same manner or hasn't been changed. And I've seen some other battery
                      manufacturers using BMS systems with their LiFePo batteries meant for
                      motorcycles and other 12v applications. I would bet just a simple little
                      circuit added to the top of the battery.

                      And for anyone interested, my 6.8 Ah K2 Energy LiFePo only weighs 1.8 lbs and
                      is a fantastic portable battery since you can use it with regular 12v chargers
                      (non conditioning-voltage pulse types). Similar technology to the A123 stuff
                      Buddipole sells in capacity and weight only you don't have to buy an expensive
                      charger, though the A123 stuff has a slightly better voltage profile if you
                      don't mind paying more. Fully charged the K2 Energy battery is 13.37 volts vs a
                      gel cell at 12.7 volts, so much friendlier to your radio and getting power out
                      especially if your rig doesn't like low voltage and starts to FM. Another plus
                      is that its good for 2000 cycles and doesn't suffer cycle loss if you take it
                      down below 50% like gel cell batteries will. The K2 Battery also only loses 2%
                      of charge per month. Just make sure you get one with the built in Battery
                      Management System so you can use it with 12v chargers. They offer a 10 Ah and 7
                      Ah version, and I find running 100 watts out portable for an afternoon on SSB I
                      only use up 4 Ah of battery at most so the 7 Ah is plenty. If you're more radio
                      active or using higher duty cycle modes you might like the 10 Ah version (about
                      2.2 lbs). I'm just getting up to speed on CW so we'll soon be putting it
                      through its paces on CW.

                      http://www.batteriesinaflash.com/lithium-iron-phosphate/12v/k2-energy-k2b12v7eb-12v-7ah-lithium-iron-phosphate-battery-bms
                      http://tinyurl.com/c2akogm

                      http://www.batteriesinaflash.com/lithium-iron-phosphate/12v/k2-energy-k2b12v10eb-12v-10ah-lithium-iron-phosphate-battery-bms
                      http://tinyurl.com/d2j7zfd

                      Jason - N6WBL

                      On 04/01/2013 07:39 AM, Pete wrote:
                      > Hi Jason. Though I may not totally understand all of your response in regard
                      > to charging of the K2 LiFePo BMS battery with a 12v power supply, I believe
                      > the K2 Energy company does not recommend doing that. When I purchased my K2
                      > 12v 9.6Ah BMS battery, I asked them on the phone about using a power supply
                      > for charging. The response was that, despite the BMS system, the battery
                      > would draw too many amps from a power supply and would have its life
                      > shortened. I believe they told me they recommend against any charger that is
                      > capable of providing more than 10 amps. They recommended a 3-4 amp charger.
                      > The 3 amp charger that I got from them, only takes about 4 hours to charge
                      > the battery when fully depleted (and usually less).
                      >
                      > By the way Jason, it was in regard to your description of this battery in a
                      > post here several months ago that I purchased it. So far I am extremely
                      > impressed with it. It has performed marvelously. However, their website is
                      > not easy to figure out. I had to phone them to figure out what I wanted.
                      > They were very helpful on the phone.
                      >
                      > Pete, KE6ZIW ==================
                      >
                      > --- In FT897@yahoogroups.com, Jason Turning <jturning@...> wrote:
                      >>>
                      >>> Hello Donovan,
                      >>>
                      >>> The K2 Energy battery with battery management system can be charged by
                      >>> any 12v charger as long as it isn't a conditioning type (voltage pulses
                      >>> for desulfation). I found you can also just plug it direction into your
                      >>> vehicle while driving or home power supply as the BMS will control
                      >>> charge and shut down once charged. You might look at the PWRgate for a
                      >>> nifty solution for automatically using battery or power supply and
                      >>> replace the charger:
                      >>>
                      >>> http://ki0bk.no-ip.com/~PWRgate/LLPG/Site/Welcome.html
                      >>>
                      >>> This will use your power supply if on and switch automatically to
                      >>> battery if off with the added benefit of charging your battery(s) off
                      >>> the power supply when on. I use it here and have a couple gel cells
                      >>> plugged in. When I get back from portable ops I'll plug my K2 Energy
                      >>> battery into it as well (instead of the gel cells). And I've used the
                      >>> Watts Up meter to monitor the K2 Energy battery with these different
                      >>> charging methods to verify the BMS controls amperage on charge and shuts
                      >>> off when done. I used to just plug my Battery Tender walwart charger I
                      >>> keep on my motorcycle into it when I came back from portable trips.
                      > Responder edited out the rest of post
                    • Pete
                      Thanks for the additional information Jason. Your results from watching an amp meter during charging of the 7Ah K2 battery seem to show that the internal BMS
                      Message 10 of 25 , Apr 1, 2013
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Thanks for the additional information Jason. Your results from watching an amp meter during charging of the 7Ah K2 battery seem to show that the internal BMS is effective in reducing the current to the lower amperage that the battery needs, even if using a 12v power source that can supply a lot more current (like a 12v power supply). That's great. The person at K2 that I spoke with by phone about the battery is Trevor Hughes. He was very helpful and seemed quite knowledgeable about the battery.

                        Thanks again for your good descriptions and experiences with the battery. I've now used mine (9.6Ah; called "10Ah") during 4 multi-hour portable HF sessions with my FT-897, using 100W transmitting power. My experience is equally positive. The current price for the "10Ah" battery ($179) with the advantage of not needing a specialized charger make it really a good price. And thanks for the links to Batteries In A Flash. The K2 website (and their "store" link at the top) are very limited and confusing in describing the battery.

                        Pete, KE6ZIW
                        =================

                        --- In FT897@yahoogroups.com, Jason Turning <jturning@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Hello Pete,
                        >
                        > I stumbled upon this in the California QSO Party where I went out and operated
                        > mobile from a couple counties using the K2 Energy LiFePo (really I just threw
                        > my Hustler up on the roof and the rig on the dash). Between spots I plugged the
                        > battery into the cigarette lighter with the Watt's Up meter in line for it to
                        > charge off the truck's alternator. I noticed that it was charging at only 3
                        > amps and slowly dropping as the battery was getting full. The BMS totally shut
                        > off charging by the time I made it to the second spot. Someone asked me about
                        > plugging it directly into the power supply and I did with the Watt's Up meter
                        > inline and it was the same, amperage was low and went down to eventually
                        > shutting it off (verified by both the Watt's Up and amp meter on my Astron
                        > RM-20M). I saw somewhere where the version I have was a direct replacement for
                        > my Cyberpower UPS unit, so the BMS was developed so the battery could be put
                        > into regular 12v devices without needing a charging system rework. Myself I
                        > wouldn't regularly plug it into the power supply directly unless I had to, but
                        > the BMS does control the current coming into the battery. After all that is the
                        > whole point of the BMS in protecting the battery from things that could make it
                        > fail in a catastrophic way since it wouldn't be used with specialized LiFePo
                        > chargers. The BMS also shuts it off with excessive drain as well (short
                        > protection). The data sheet I had said that the base 10 Ah battery itself is
                        > rated at 7amps charge and 25 amp draw (24 amp draw on the 7 Ah).
                        >
                        > Regarding the company and this modern litigious society we live in, I would
                        > certainly understand why they wouldn't say you could just plug it into a power
                        > supply. And why they would stick to chargers within the battery's ratings but
                        > then even those would be dangerous if the BMS wasn't performing as it should.
                        > But fortunately us hams like to tinker with things and see what they'll do.
                        > Also, that person you spoke with might not fully understand the BMS built into
                        > the battery. For anyone getting one of these and using it outside their
                        > recommendations, do run a meter on it and make sure your BMS is operating in
                        > the same manner or hasn't been changed. And I've seen some other battery
                        > manufacturers using BMS systems with their LiFePo batteries meant for
                        > motorcycles and other 12v applications. I would bet just a simple little
                        > circuit added to the top of the battery.
                        >
                        > And for anyone interested, my 6.8 Ah K2 Energy LiFePo only weighs 1.8 lbs and
                        > is a fantastic portable battery since you can use it with regular 12v chargers
                        > (non conditioning-voltage pulse types). Similar technology to the A123 stuff
                        > Buddipole sells in capacity and weight only you don't have to buy an expensive
                        > charger, though the A123 stuff has a slightly better voltage profile if you
                        > don't mind paying more. Fully charged the K2 Energy battery is 13.37 volts vs a
                        > gel cell at 12.7 volts, so much friendlier to your radio and getting power out
                        > especially if your rig doesn't like low voltage and starts to FM. Another plus
                        > is that its good for 2000 cycles and doesn't suffer cycle loss if you take it
                        > down below 50% like gel cell batteries will. The K2 Battery also only loses 2%
                        > of charge per month. Just make sure you get one with the built in Battery
                        > Management System so you can use it with 12v chargers. They offer a 10 Ah and 7
                        > Ah version, and I find running 100 watts out portable for an afternoon on SSB I
                        > only use up 4 Ah of battery at most so the 7 Ah is plenty. If you're more radio
                        > active or using higher duty cycle modes you might like the 10 Ah version (about
                        > 2.2 lbs). I'm just getting up to speed on CW so we'll soon be putting it
                        > through its paces on CW.
                        >
                        > http://www.batteriesinaflash.com/lithium-iron-phosphate/12v/k2-energy-k2b12v7eb-12v-7ah-lithium-iron-phosphate-battery-bms
                        > http://tinyurl.com/c2akogm
                        >
                        > http://www.batteriesinaflash.com/lithium-iron-phosphate/12v/k2-energy-k2b12v10eb-12v-10ah-lithium-iron-phosphate-battery-bms
                        > http://tinyurl.com/d2j7zfd
                        >
                        > Jason - N6WBL
                        >
                        > On 04/01/2013 07:39 AM, Pete wrote:
                        > > Hi Jason. Though I may not totally understand all of your response in regard
                        > > to charging of the K2 LiFePo BMS battery with a 12v power supply, I believe
                        > > the K2 Energy company does not recommend doing that. When I purchased my K2
                        > > 12v 9.6Ah BMS battery, I asked them on the phone about using a power supply
                        > > for charging. The response was that, despite the BMS system, the battery
                        > > would draw too many amps from a power supply and would have its life
                        > > shortened. I believe they told me they recommend against any charger that is
                        > > capable of providing more than 10 amps. They recommended a 3-4 amp charger.
                        > > The 3 amp charger that I got from them, only takes about 4 hours to charge
                        > > the battery when fully depleted (and usually less).
                        > >
                        > > By the way Jason, it was in regard to your description of this battery in a
                        > > post here several months ago that I purchased it. So far I am extremely
                        > > impressed with it. It has performed marvelously. However, their website is
                        > > not easy to figure out. I had to phone them to figure out what I wanted.
                        > > They were very helpful on the phone.
                        > >
                        > > Pete, KE6ZIW ==================
                        > >
                        > > --- In FT897@yahoogroups.com, Jason Turning <jturning@> wrote:
                        > >>>
                        > >>> Hello Donovan,
                        > >>>
                        > >>> The K2 Energy battery with battery management system can be charged by
                        > >>> any 12v charger as long as it isn't a conditioning type (voltage pulses
                        > >>> for desulfation). I found you can also just plug it direction into your
                        > >>> vehicle while driving or home power supply as the BMS will control
                        > >>> charge and shut down once charged. You might look at the PWRgate for a
                        > >>> nifty solution for automatically using battery or power supply and
                        > >>> replace the charger:
                        > >>>
                        > >>> http://ki0bk.no-ip.com/~PWRgate/LLPG/Site/Welcome.html
                        > >>>
                        > >>> This will use your power supply if on and switch automatically to
                        > >>> battery if off with the added benefit of charging your battery(s) off
                        > >>> the power supply when on. I use it here and have a couple gel cells
                        > >>> plugged in. When I get back from portable ops I'll plug my K2 Energy
                        > >>> battery into it as well (instead of the gel cells). And I've used the
                        > >>> Watts Up meter to monitor the K2 Energy battery with these different
                        > >>> charging methods to verify the BMS controls amperage on charge and shuts
                        > >>> off when done. I used to just plug my Battery Tender walwart charger I
                        > >>> keep on my motorcycle into it when I came back from portable trips.
                        > > Responder edited out the rest of post
                        >
                      • Rob McClure
                        Hello all, I m thankful for the ham that started this thread as I am looking into alternative ways to power my 897D. I ve done some checking and the K2
                        Message 11 of 25 , Apr 4, 2013
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Hello all,

                          I'm thankful for the ham that started this thread as I am looking into
                          alternative ways to power my 897D.

                          I've done some checking and the K2 batteries are actually 12.8v batteries
                          right? I guess since so many are using these, the 12.8v is NOT a problem
                          for the 897D?

                          While I was looking into this, I found another company that sells these
                          batteries, called Tenergy, using the very same chemistry. They offer a
                          9.6ah battery WITH a charger for $159, a 12Ah battery for $179 and a 20Ah
                          battery for $279.
                          I do not believe the Tenergy batteries have a BMS, but if you used the
                          battery & charger sensibly, wouldn't this be a lower cost alternative to
                          the K2 batteries?

                          Open to suggestions and comments.

                          73, Rob, KC5RET


                          On Sun, Mar 31, 2013 at 11:34 AM, dcawood <dcawood@...> wrote:

                          > **
                          >
                          >
                          > Pete and all,
                          >
                          > What do you use to charge the K2 Energy K2B12V10EB 12V 10Ah Lithium Iron
                          > Phosphate Battery BMS and ensure it is charged fully, etc?
                          >
                          > I am planning a go kit, its not going to be light but it will have
                          > everything I need, I hope. Please anyone tell me what you think. I am new
                          > to HAM and want to make sure I get this project right the first time.
                          >
                          > OK. The enclosure is a multi stack enclosure from
                          > http://www.tac-comm.com/. I may get a pelican case that it can fit into
                          > just for packing and travel, not to work out of like a rack mount
                          > enclosure.
                          >
                          > This would be a complete kit for the purpose of immediate pack n go, with
                          > ample power stores.
                          >
                          > The first/bottom shelf would have the LifePo battery that Pete is using.
                          >
                          > The second/middle shelf would have an Astron SS-30M power supply. The
                          > First and second shelf contents are debatable, I do want to radio on top to
                          > get it closer to eye level.
                          >
                          > The third/top shelf would be the 897D Radio that is already loded with two
                          > internal batteries and the tac comm top plate would enclose the top shelf.
                          >
                          > The battery, Power Supply, and 897 would all have power pole ends.
                          >
                          > There will be a 897 batter charger installed with a molex 6 pin to power
                          > pole and ac adapter for charging from AC or the Power supply.
                          >
                          > The power supply may connect to a powerpole splitter that will allow
                          > charging of the batteries at the same time.
                          >
                          > Also, another idea from Pete, there will be a watts'up meter brought to
                          > the face of the unit to monitor the incoming voltage.
                          >
                          > Inline fuses to all power sources.
                          >
                          > To top it off, a buddipole system will be used for HF?
                          >
                          > Any ideas of a good VHF/UHF packable antenna system?
                          >
                          > These are my thoughts so far, hasn't reached paper yet, As I said I am a
                          > new HAM and would very much appreciate and all critical analysis from the
                          > new to the very experienced HAMs out there as this will be my go to radio
                          > package.
                          >
                          > Regards,
                          > Donovan - KF5TSH
                          >
                          > --- In FT897@yahoogroups.com, "Pete" <odyssey570@...> wrote:
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Below is a link to some photos I put up of the 4 short cables, which I
                          > attempted to describe in my previous post, that I use to connect my battery
                          > (K2 Energy) with my Yaesu FT-897D radio. Though I've made several PowerPole
                          > cables before, these cables and meter were all ordered from the PowerWerx
                          > company (under "Adapter Cables" and "Digital Meters"). To connect the
                          > battery, I just disconnect the Molex 6-pin connector that comes from the
                          > radio's built-in power supply, and connect the Moles 6-pin connector at the
                          > end of the series of cables shown in the pictures.
                          > >
                          > > < http://www.flickr.com/photos/11636522@N06/sets/72157633102638443/ >
                          > > (you can copy and paste link into your browser)
                          > >
                          > > The battery I got has a 9.6 amp-hour capacity, is about 6"x4"x2" in size
                          > and weighs a bit over 2 lbs. During my Grand Canyon adventure mine ran the
                          > radio well on full 100 watts transmitting power for at least 5-6 hours. The
                          > model I have has a built-in "Battery Management System"(BMS) which protects
                          > it from overcharging, becoming undercharged, cell imbalance, and other
                          > things that can damage a lithium iron phosphate (LiFePo) battery. This
                          > model does not require a smart charger (in fact should not use one) because
                          > the built-in BMS provides the smartness. Any 3-4 amp (not more), 12v
                          > charger will do for charging. This type of battery keeps its charge for a
                          > long period of non-use, and maintains a very steady voltage rate during
                          > use, until it is close to being depleted. Mine has performed beautifully so
                          > far.
                          > >
                          > > Pete, KE6ZIW
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          >


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Jason Turning
                          ... The FT-897D is designed for 13.8 volts, and they say plus or minus 15%, so 11.73 to 15.87 volts. And yes the LiFePo are a little more voltage than gel
                          Message 12 of 25 , Apr 4, 2013
                          • 0 Attachment
                            On 04/04/13 10:43, Rob McClure wrote:
                            > Hello all,
                            >
                            > I'm thankful for the ham that started this thread as I am looking into
                            > alternative ways to power my 897D.
                            >
                            > I've done some checking and the K2 batteries are actually 12.8v batteries
                            > right? I guess since so many are using these, the 12.8v is NOT a problem
                            > for the 897D?

                            The FT-897D is designed for 13.8 volts, and they say plus or minus 15%, so
                            11.73 to 15.87 volts. And yes the LiFePo are a little more voltage than gel
                            cells which are lower, 12.7 volts fully charged and then dropping off quite a
                            bit. I think my K2 Energy battery was 13.37 volts fully charged when I checked
                            it last. And if memory serves the A123 stuff Buddipole sells might be a little
                            over 14 volts, around 14.2 to 14.3 volts.

                            > While I was looking into this, I found another company that sells these
                            > batteries, called Tenergy, using the very same chemistry. They offer a
                            > 9.6ah battery WITH a charger for $159, a 12Ah battery for $179 and a 20Ah
                            > battery for $279. I do not believe the Tenergy batteries have a BMS, but if
                            > you used the battery & charger sensibly, wouldn't this be a lower cost
                            > alternative to the K2 batteries?

                            The K2 Energy batteries have been used by hams successfully, but looking at the
                            Tenergy website they might have a similar product in bigger sizes at a nicer
                            price. They mentioned short circuit and overcharge protection, and this Amazon
                            listing says they're a drop in replacement for lead acid batteries with no
                            change to the charging system, so that would imply a BMS of some sort. You
                            could contact the company for more information or buy one and check it out. I'd
                            recommend watching it with a Watts Up meter or something similar to make sure
                            it functions the way you think it should.

                            http://www.amazon.com/Tenergy-LiFePO4-Lithium-Phosphate-Battery/dp/B0056BEJCI

                            Consequently, I found a link to some protection circuits for LiFePo batteries
                            that Tenergy makes, so they do make BMS systems. So I would bet they provide
                            them on the batteries they market as 12v lead acid replacements. One thing I
                            notice they have a lower charge current of 2.4A listed, but higher discharge
                            rate of 70A.

                            Warnings:

                            Risk of fire, explosion, or burning.
                            Do not short circuit the (+) and (-) terminals with any metals.
                            Do not immerse, wet, or throw battery in water.
                            Do not keep battery in heated temperature above 60˚C or throw battery into
                            fire.
                            Do not disassemble, crush, or modify the battery.
                            Stop using the battery if abnormal heat, odor, deformation or abnormal
                            condition is detected.

                            http://www.all-battery.com/tenergy12.8v12ahlifepo4rechargeablebattery-31997.aspx
                            http://tinyurl.com/d4vqvoc

                            I find the water warning interesting. If you're backpacking in the rain and
                            your pack goes up in flames you'll know why, :). They plug them as replacements
                            for wheel chairs so I'm sure they're not that dangerous. Though, maybe this has
                            to do with taking out the BMS system inside the battery with water.

                            > Open to suggestions and comments.
                            >
                            > 73, Rob, KC5RET

                            If you buy one or learn anything else share it with the group. I'm sure there
                            are a few of us interested in new battery technology.

                            73
                            Jason - N6WBL
                          • Dean Gibson AE7Q
                            Sometimes we forget: the FT-897D is designed for 13.8 volts *WHILE TRANSMITTING*. That s what both my car and my home power supply deliver. I d like to see
                            Message 13 of 25 , Apr 4, 2013
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Sometimes we forget: the FT-897D is designed for 13.8 volts *WHILE
                              TRANSMITTING*. That's what both my car and my home power supply deliver.

                              I'd like to see voltages on the batteries being discussed, *measured
                              while transmitting* @ 25W and @ 100W.

                              -- Dean

                              On 2013-04-04 18:19, Jason Turning wrote:
                              >
                              > The FT-897D is designed for 13.8 volts, ...
                              >



                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Chris Robinson
                              Having feeling ripped off for the prie of the FNB-78, I am looking for something as well. I was curious as to who had such batteries to begin with, all I seem
                              Message 14 of 25 , Apr 4, 2013
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Having feeling ripped off for the prie of the FNB-78, I am looking for
                                something as well. I was curious as to who had such batteries to begin
                                with, all I seem to find are the standard 12V


                                On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 6:19 PM, Jason Turning <jturning@...>wrote:

                                > **
                                >
                                >
                                > On 04/04/13 10:43, Rob McClure wrote:
                                > > Hello all,
                                > >
                                > > I'm thankful for the ham that started this thread as I am looking into
                                > > alternative ways to power my 897D.
                                > >
                                > > I've done some checking and the K2 batteries are actually 12.8v
                                > batteries
                                > > right? I guess since so many are using these, the 12.8v is NOT a problem
                                > > for the 897D?
                                >
                                > The FT-897D is designed for 13.8 volts, and they say plus or minus 15%, so
                                > 11.73 to 15.87 volts. And yes the LiFePo are a little more voltage than gel
                                > cells which are lower, 12.7 volts fully charged and then dropping off
                                > quite a
                                > bit. I think my K2 Energy battery was 13.37 volts fully charged when I
                                > checked
                                > it last. And if memory serves the A123 stuff Buddipole sells might be a
                                > little
                                > over 14 volts, around 14.2 to 14.3 volts.
                                >
                                >
                                > > While I was looking into this, I found another company that sells these
                                > > batteries, called Tenergy, using the very same chemistry. They offer a
                                > > 9.6ah battery WITH a charger for $159, a 12Ah battery for $179 and a
                                > 20Ah
                                > > battery for $279. I do not believe the Tenergy batteries have a BMS, but
                                > if
                                > > you used the battery & charger sensibly, wouldn't this be a lower cost
                                > > alternative to the K2 batteries?
                                >
                                > The K2 Energy batteries have been used by hams successfully, but looking
                                > at the
                                > Tenergy website they might have a similar product in bigger sizes at a
                                > nicer
                                > price. They mentioned short circuit and overcharge protection, and this
                                > Amazon
                                > listing says they're a drop in replacement for lead acid batteries with no
                                > change to the charging system, so that would imply a BMS of some sort. You
                                > could contact the company for more information or buy one and check it
                                > out. I'd
                                > recommend watching it with a Watts Up meter or something similar to make
                                > sure
                                > it functions the way you think it should.
                                >
                                >
                                > http://www.amazon.com/Tenergy-LiFePO4-Lithium-Phosphate-Battery/dp/B0056BEJCI
                                >
                                > Consequently, I found a link to some protection circuits for LiFePo
                                > batteries
                                > that Tenergy makes, so they do make BMS systems. So I would bet they
                                > provide
                                > them on the batteries they market as 12v lead acid replacements. One thing
                                > I
                                > notice they have a lower charge current of 2.4A listed, but higher
                                > discharge
                                > rate of 70A.
                                >
                                > Warnings:
                                >
                                > Risk of fire, explosion, or burning.
                                > Do not short circuit the (+) and (-) terminals with any metals.
                                > Do not immerse, wet, or throw battery in water.
                                > Do not keep battery in heated temperature above 60˚C or throw battery into
                                > fire.
                                > Do not disassemble, crush, or modify the battery.
                                > Stop using the battery if abnormal heat, odor, deformation or abnormal
                                > condition is detected.
                                >
                                >
                                > http://www.all-battery.com/tenergy12.8v12ahlifepo4rechargeablebattery-31997.aspx
                                > http://tinyurl.com/d4vqvoc
                                >
                                > I find the water warning interesting. If you're backpacking in the rain and
                                > your pack goes up in flames you'll know why, :). They plug them as
                                > replacements
                                > for wheel chairs so I'm sure they're not that dangerous. Though, maybe
                                > this has
                                > to do with taking out the BMS system inside the battery with water.
                                >
                                >
                                > > Open to suggestions and comments.
                                > >
                                > > 73, Rob, KC5RET
                                >
                                > If you buy one or learn anything else share it with the group. I'm sure
                                > there
                                > are a few of us interested in new battery technology.
                                >
                                > 73
                                > Jason - N6WBL
                                >
                                >
                                >



                                --
                                Making life hell for others since 1973

                                Mr.C.Robinson
                                73 DE KF6NFW


                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Jason Turning
                                Per my Watts Up meter with the FT-897D: 20Ah Gel Cell: RX 12.7 V 25w CW 11.93 V 100w CW 11.60 V 6.8Ah K2 Energy LiFePo: RX 13.2 V 25w CW 12.27 V 100w CW 11.64
                                Message 15 of 25 , Apr 4, 2013
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Per my Watts Up meter with the FT-897D:

                                  20Ah Gel Cell:
                                  RX 12.7 V
                                  25w CW 11.93 V
                                  100w CW 11.60 V

                                  6.8Ah K2 Energy LiFePo:
                                  RX 13.2 V
                                  25w CW 12.27 V
                                  100w CW 11.64 V

                                  I held the CW for a few seconds into a dummy load and let the voltage settle
                                  down. I should also point out this was running through my PWRgate as well, and
                                  the Gel Cell was on the PWRgate and fully charged where the K2 Energy battery
                                  had set with my portable gear.

                                  According to the meter on my FT-897D I also get a voltage drop from the power
                                  supply even though the power supply doesn't show it on the meter which I
                                  believe is due to the resistance of the power wires under the 17.15 amp load.
                                  I'm not an electrical engineer so I'll leave for someone else to chime in with.

                                  Jason - N6WBL

                                  On 04/04/2013 06:34 PM, Dean Gibson AE7Q wrote:
                                  > Sometimes we forget: the FT-897D is designed for 13.8 volts *WHILE
                                  > TRANSMITTING*. That's what both my car and my home power supply deliver.
                                  >
                                  > I'd like to see voltages on the batteries being discussed, *measured while
                                  > transmitting* @ 25W and @ 100W.
                                  >
                                  > -- Dean
                                • Kim Scheidel
                                  Donovan, Take a look at the Ventenna HFp for your go kit.  It is very light and portable.  Believe it is just what a go kit needs. I have the vertical one
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Apr 8, 2013
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Donovan,

                                    Take a look at the Ventenna HFp for your go kit.  It is very light and portable.  Believe it is just what a go kit needs. I have the vertical one with 80M coil.  Also have the dipole one that does 20-6 meters.  With options you can add 30, 40, 60 and 80 meters to the dipole.  The dipole can also be used on 2M SSB by using just the two whip antennas.  It has been great antenna and the 2 M SSB has been a fun addition.  

                                    Review of the HFp in this months Popular Communications.   Also you can check out the reviews on e-ham.    Their web site  http://www.ventenna.com/


                                    Kim,  KE6RKX


                                    ________________________________
                                    From: dcawood <dcawood@...>
                                    To: FT897@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2013 8:34 AM
                                    Subject: [FT897] 897D Go Kit Project


                                     
                                    Pete and all,

                                    What do you use to charge the K2 Energy K2B12V10EB 12V 10Ah Lithium Iron Phosphate Battery BMS and ensure it is charged fully, etc?

                                    I am planning a go kit, its not going to be light but it will have everything I need, I hope. Please anyone tell me what you think. I am new to HAM and want to make sure I get this project right the first time.

                                    OK. The enclosure is a multi stack enclosure from http://www.tac-comm.com/. I may get a pelican case that it can fit into just for packing and travel, not to work out of like a rack mount enclosure.

                                    This would be a complete kit for the purpose of immediate pack n go, with ample power stores.

                                    The first/bottom shelf would have the LifePo battery that Pete is using.

                                    The second/middle shelf would have an Astron SS-30M power supply. The First and second shelf contents are debatable, I do want to radio on top to get it closer to eye level.

                                    The third/top shelf would be the 897D Radio that is already loded with two internal batteries and the tac comm top plate would enclose the top shelf.

                                    The battery, Power Supply, and 897 would all have power pole ends.

                                    There will be a 897 batter charger installed with a molex 6 pin to power pole and ac adapter for charging from AC or the Power supply.

                                    The power supply may connect to a powerpole splitter that will allow charging of the batteries at the same time.

                                    Also, another idea from Pete, there will be a watts'up meter brought to the face of the unit to monitor the incoming voltage.

                                    Inline fuses to all power sources.

                                    To top it off, a buddipole system will be used for HF?

                                    Any ideas of a good VHF/UHF packable antenna system?

                                    These are my thoughts so far, hasn't reached paper yet, As I said I am a new HAM and would very much appreciate and all critical analysis from the new to the very experienced HAMs out there as this will be my go to radio package.

                                    Regards,
                                    Donovan - KF5TSH

                                    --- In FT897@yahoogroups.com, "Pete" <odyssey570@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Below is a link to some photos I put up of the 4 short cables, which I attempted to describe in my previous post, that I use to connect my battery (K2 Energy) with my Yaesu FT-897D radio. Though I've made several PowerPole cables before, these cables and meter were all ordered from the PowerWerx company (under "Adapter Cables" and "Digital Meters"). To connect the battery, I just disconnect the Molex 6-pin connector that comes from the radio's built-in power supply, and connect the Moles 6-pin connector at the end of the series of cables shown in the pictures.
                                    >
                                    > < http://www.flickr.com/photos/11636522@N06/sets/72157633102638443/ >
                                    > (you can copy and paste link into your browser)
                                    >
                                    > The battery I got has a 9.6 amp-hour capacity, is about 6"x4"x2" in size and weighs a bit over 2 lbs. During my Grand Canyon adventure mine ran the radio well on full 100 watts transmitting power for at least 5-6 hours. The model I have has a built-in "Battery Management System"(BMS) which protects it from overcharging, becoming undercharged, cell imbalance, and other things that can damage a lithium iron phosphate (LiFePo) battery. This model does not require a smart charger (in fact should not use one) because the built-in BMS provides the smartness. Any 3-4 amp (not more), 12v charger will do for charging. This type of battery keeps its charge for a long period of non-use, and maintains a very steady voltage rate during use, until it is close to being depleted. Mine has performed beautifully so far.
                                    >
                                    > Pete, KE6ZIW
                                    >




                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • w4fjt
                                    Hi Donovan, Take a look at the Buddipole Group here on Yahoo also. My set-up is shown in the photos section under W4FJT. A simple vertical consisting of a
                                    Message 17 of 25 , Apr 9, 2013
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Hi Donovan,

                                      Take a look at the Buddipole Group here on Yahoo also. My set-up is shown in the photos section under W4FJT. A simple vertical consisting of a Buddipole coil, 2 22" arms & long whip on a photo tripod. One elevated radial.

                                      I use a 33 AH Werker wheelchair battery. It will power the FT-897 for a casual weekend of use and is easy to carry. It wouldn't work for backpacking, but works good for car camping or cabin camping.

                                      Be sure to post some pictures of your go kit when you get it up and running.

                                      Jim, W4FJT

                                      --- In FT897@yahoogroups.com, Kim Scheidel <ke6rkx@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Donovan,
                                      >
                                      > Take a look at the Ventenna HFp for your go kit.  It is very light and portable.  Believe it is just what a go kit needs. I have the vertical one with 80M coil.  Also have the dipole one that does 20-6 meters.  With options you can add 30, 40, 60 and 80 meters to the dipole.  The dipole can also be used on 2M SSB by using just the two whip antennas.  It has been great antenna and the 2 M SSB has been a fun addition.  
                                      >
                                      > Review of the HFp in this months Popular Communications.   Also you can check out the reviews on e-ham.    Their web site  http://www.ventenna.com/
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Kim,  KE6RKX
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > ________________________________
                                      > From: dcawood <dcawood@...>
                                      > To: FT897@yahoogroups.com
                                      > Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2013 8:34 AM
                                      > Subject: [FT897] 897D Go Kit Project
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >  
                                      > Pete and all,
                                      >
                                      > What do you use to charge the K2 Energy K2B12V10EB 12V 10Ah Lithium Iron Phosphate Battery BMS and ensure it is charged fully, etc?
                                      >
                                      > I am planning a go kit, its not going to be light but it will have everything I need, I hope. Please anyone tell me what you think. I am new to HAM and want to make sure I get this project right the first time.
                                      >
                                      > OK. The enclosure is a multi stack enclosure from http://www.tac-comm.com/. I may get a pelican case that it can fit into just for packing and travel, not to work out of like a rack mount enclosure.
                                      >
                                      > This would be a complete kit for the purpose of immediate pack n go, with ample power stores.
                                      >
                                      > The first/bottom shelf would have the LifePo battery that Pete is using.
                                      >
                                      > The second/middle shelf would have an Astron SS-30M power supply. The First and second shelf contents are debatable, I do want to radio on top to get it closer to eye level.
                                      >
                                      > The third/top shelf would be the 897D Radio that is already loded with two internal batteries and the tac comm top plate would enclose the top shelf.
                                      >
                                      > The battery, Power Supply, and 897 would all have power pole ends.
                                      >
                                      > There will be a 897 batter charger installed with a molex 6 pin to power pole and ac adapter for charging from AC or the Power supply.
                                      >
                                      > The power supply may connect to a powerpole splitter that will allow charging of the batteries at the same time.
                                      >
                                      > Also, another idea from Pete, there will be a watts'up meter brought to the face of the unit to monitor the incoming voltage.
                                      >
                                      > Inline fuses to all power sources.
                                      >
                                      > To top it off, a buddipole system will be used for HF?
                                      >
                                      > Any ideas of a good VHF/UHF packable antenna system?
                                      >
                                      > These are my thoughts so far, hasn't reached paper yet, As I said I am a new HAM and would very much appreciate and all critical analysis from the new to the very experienced HAMs out there as this will be my go to radio package.
                                      >
                                      > Regards,
                                      > Donovan - KF5TSH
                                      >
                                      > --- In FT897@yahoogroups.com, "Pete" <odyssey570@> wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > Below is a link to some photos I put up of the 4 short cables, which I attempted to describe in my previous post, that I use to connect my battery (K2 Energy) with my Yaesu FT-897D radio. Though I've made several PowerPole cables before, these cables and meter were all ordered from the PowerWerx company (under "Adapter Cables" and "Digital Meters"). To connect the battery, I just disconnect the Molex 6-pin connector that comes from the radio's built-in power supply, and connect the Moles 6-pin connector at the end of the series of cables shown in the pictures.
                                      > >
                                      > > < http://www.flickr.com/photos/11636522@N06/sets/72157633102638443/ >
                                      > > (you can copy and paste link into your browser)
                                      > >
                                      > > The battery I got has a 9.6 amp-hour capacity, is about 6"x4"x2" in size and weighs a bit over 2 lbs. During my Grand Canyon adventure mine ran the radio well on full 100 watts transmitting power for at least 5-6 hours. The model I have has a built-in "Battery Management System"(BMS) which protects it from overcharging, becoming undercharged, cell imbalance, and other things that can damage a lithium iron phosphate (LiFePo) battery. This model does not require a smart charger (in fact should not use one) because the built-in BMS provides the smartness. Any 3-4 amp (not more), 12v charger will do for charging. This type of battery keeps its charge for a long period of non-use, and maintains a very steady voltage rate during use, until it is close to being depleted. Mine has performed beautifully so far.
                                      > >
                                      > > Pete, KE6ZIW
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      >
                                    • Trapper John
                                      Pete, I ve followed the discussion of the K2 Energy battery application for portable use with great interest. The cabling setup you ve worked out is quite
                                      Message 18 of 25 , May 4 11:24 PM
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Pete, I've followed the discussion of the K2 Energy battery application for portable use with great interest. The cabling setup you've worked out is quite clever. One comment you made in another post left me wondering, though. You mentioned forgetting to charge your battery on one occasion. Here's the question:

                                        How do you charge the battery when you are in the field? The question is not facetious; you may have had access to an AC hookup,, a portable generator, etc. My interest stems from the fact that my QTH is a Teardrop trailer with solar charging capability and I am trying to figure out a panel configuration that will give me a charging option.

                                        73,
                                        Trapper John
                                        KG7CFV

                                        >
                                        > --- In FT897@yahoogroups.com, "Pete" <odyssey570@> wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > Below is a link to some photos I put up of the 4 short cables, which I attempted to describe in my previous post, that I use to connect my battery (K2 Energy) with my Yaesu FT-897D radio. Though I've made several PowerPole cables before, these cables and meter were all ordered from the PowerWerx company (under "Adapter Cables" and "Digital Meters"). To connect the battery, I just disconnect the Molex 6-pin connector that comes from the radio's built-in power supply, and connect the Moles 6-pin connector at the end of the series of cables shown in the pictures.
                                        > >
                                        > > < http://www.flickr.com/photos/11636522@N06/sets/72157633102638443/ >
                                        > > (you can copy and paste link into your browser)
                                        > >
                                        > > The battery I got has a 9.6 amp-hour capacity, is about 6"x4"x2" in size and weighs a bit over 2 lbs. During my Grand Canyon adventure mine ran the radio well on full 100 watts transmitting power for at least 5-6 hours. The model I have has a built-in "Battery Management System"(BMS) which protects it from overcharging, becoming undercharged, cell imbalance, and other things that can damage a lithium iron phosphate (LiFePo) battery. This model does not require a smart charger (in fact should not use one) because the built-in BMS provides the smartness. Any 3-4 amp (not more), 12v charger will do for charging. This type of battery keeps its charge for a long period of non-use, and maintains a very steady voltage rate during use, until it is close to being depleted. Mine has performed beautifully so far.
                                        > >
                                        > > Pete, KE6ZIW
                                        > >
                                        >
                                      • Jason Turning
                                        John, As long as you get the K2 Energy with the battery management system you can use any regular 12v charging system. You can just plug it into your vehicle
                                        Message 19 of 25 , May 7 9:08 AM
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          John,

                                          As long as you get the K2 Energy with the battery management system you can use
                                          any regular 12v charging system. You can just plug it into your vehicle on the
                                          way out portable to charge or use a regular 12v charge controller with solar
                                          panels. I've done both, charging from the vehicle and using a solar panel while
                                          operating. The BMS controls the charge to the battery and will shut it off when
                                          the batter is fully charged as I've watched my Watts Up meter while it was
                                          plugged into the vehicle and driving. The battery loses very little charge just
                                          sitting, so I just charge mine when I get back and its ready to go.

                                          Jason - N6WBL

                                          On 05/04/2013 11:24 PM, Trapper John wrote:
                                          > Pete, I've followed the discussion of the K2 Energy battery application for portable use with great interest. The cabling setup you've worked out is quite clever. One comment you made in another post left me wondering, though. You mentioned forgetting to charge your battery on one occasion. Here's the question:
                                          >
                                          > How do you charge the battery when you are in the field? The question is not facetious; you may have had access to an AC hookup,, a portable generator, etc. My interest stems from the fact that my QTH is a Teardrop trailer with solar charging capability and I am trying to figure out a panel configuration that will give me a charging option.
                                          >
                                          > 73,
                                          > Trapper John
                                          > KG7CFV
                                        • Pete
                                          Hi Trapper John. When I forgot to charge the K2 battery overnight I was staying at the Grand Canyon at one of the lodges where there was 110V AC power. The
                                          Message 20 of 25 , May 7 9:22 AM
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            Hi Trapper John. When I forgot to charge the K2 battery overnight I was staying at the Grand Canyon at one of the lodges where there was 110V AC power. The "12V" (14.4V, 3A) charger I use for the battery plugs into 110V. I don't have any experience with charging the battery with anything other than access to 110V.

                                            I used the battery on two successive days with my FT-897D and Buddipole antenna, with radio set to 100W transmitting. After the first day of about 2 1/2 hrs radio use (maybe 30%-40% transmitting duty), I foolishly forgot to recharge the battery. The next day I used the radio about another 2 1/2 - 3 hrs with radio set to 100W. When I quit, my Watt's Up meter showed the battery was still putting out 11.9V while transmitting (and around 12.3V on receive). The radio's manual recommends the lowest voltage to run the 897 on is about 11.7. So after about 5-6 hrs of combined use the battery was still doing well and allowing great contacts with operators in 9 different states.

                                            I described my experience, with a few photos, on Flickr at: < http://www.flickr.com/photos/11636522@N06/sets/72157633054005624/ >

                                            Pete, KE6ZIW
                                            =======================

                                            --- In FT897@yahoogroups.com, "Trapper John" <john.stec@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > Pete, I've followed the discussion of the K2 Energy battery application for portable use with great interest. The cabling setup you've worked out is quite clever. One comment you made in another post left me wondering, though. You mentioned forgetting to charge your battery on one occasion. Here's the question:
                                            >
                                            > How do you charge the battery when you are in the field? The question is not facetious; you may have had access to an AC hookup,, a portable generator, etc. My interest stems from the fact that my QTH is a Teardrop trailer with solar charging capability and I am trying to figure out a panel configuration that will give me a charging option.
                                            >
                                            > 73,
                                            > Trapper John
                                            > KG7CFV
                                            >
                                            > >
                                            > > --- In FT897@yahoogroups.com, "Pete" <odyssey570@> wrote:
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Below is a link to some photos I put up of the 4 short cables, which I attempted to describe in my previous post, that I use to connect my battery (K2 Energy) with my Yaesu FT-897D radio. Though I've made several PowerPole cables before, these cables and meter were all ordered from the PowerWerx company (under "Adapter Cables" and "Digital Meters"). To connect the battery, I just disconnect the Molex 6-pin connector that comes from the radio's built-in power supply, and connect the Moles 6-pin connector at the end of the series of cables shown in the pictures.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > < http://www.flickr.com/photos/11636522@N06/sets/72157633102638443/ >
                                            > > > (you can copy and paste link into your browser)
                                            > > >
                                            > > > The battery I got has a 9.6 amp-hour capacity, is about 6"x4"x2" in size and weighs a bit over 2 lbs. During my Grand Canyon adventure mine ran the radio well on full 100 watts transmitting power for at least 5-6 hours. The model I have has a built-in "Battery Management System"(BMS) which protects it from overcharging, becoming undercharged, cell imbalance, and other things that can damage a lithium iron phosphate (LiFePo) battery. This model does not require a smart charger (in fact should not use one) because the built-in BMS provides the smartness. Any 3-4 amp (not more), 12v charger will do for charging. This type of battery keeps its charge for a long period of non-use, and maintains a very steady voltage rate during use, until it is close to being depleted. Mine has performed beautifully so far.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Pete, KE6ZIW
                                            > > >
                                            > >
                                            >
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