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RE: [FT897] Re: S9 noise with no antenna attached

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  • Joseph Richard
    I had the same problem and sent mine off to Yaesu and they replaced several filters, a diode and one or two transistors. JR ... From: FT897@yahoogroups.com
    Message 1 of 16 , Apr 2, 2010
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      I had the same problem and sent mine off to Yaesu and they replaced several
      filters, a diode and one or two transistors.

      JR

      -----Original Message-----
      From: FT897@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FT897@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
      ft100guy
      Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2010 12:47 AM
      To: FT897@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [FT897] Re: S9 noise with no antenna attached



      I have owned quite a few 857's (electrically the same as an 897) and I
      just ran into this on a 2008 vintage one. The static comes and goes on this
      particular one and could be there one day and not the next. Anyway, it
      sounds like static crashes to the 10th magnitude on every band including 2m
      and 440. If you check around, it seems to be with 2007 thru 2009 vintage
      857's and 897's so I suspect a bad run of a particular part or parts. If
      they replaced the ceramic filter and it cured it, I would believe it. One
      guy placed .01mfd caps on his filters and this cured it as well. I guess
      Murata had a bad run as this is typically the supplier of ceramic filters to
      Yaesu. Incidently, I have a mechanical filter installed and it happens. My
      guess is that it is way up the chain and not the ordinary ceramic filter
      (2.6) since it happens on every band in every mode with mine. It is so bad
      that it affects the S-meter as well. Then the next minute its gone! Richy
      N2ZD





      ------------------------------------

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    • joez32265
      ... I have the exact same problem only started yesterday! All bands all modes would appreciate any help. many thanks
      Message 2 of 16 , Apr 5, 2010
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        --- In FT897@yahoogroups.com, "ft100guy" <ss409ss@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        >
        > I have owned quite a few 857's (electrically the same as an 897) and I just ran into this on a 2008 vintage one. The static comes and goes on this particular one and could be there one day and not the next. Anyway, it sounds like static crashes to the 10th magnitude on every band including 2m and 440. If you check around, it seems to be with 2007 thru 2009 vintage 857's and 897's so I suspect a bad run of a particular part or parts. If they replaced the ceramic filter and it cured it, I would believe it. One guy placed .01mfd caps on his filters and this cured it as well. I guess Murata had a bad run as this is typically the supplier of ceramic filters to Yaesu. Incidently, I have a mechanical filter installed and it happens. My guess is that it is way up the chain and not the ordinary ceramic filter (2.6) since it happens on every band in every mode with mine. It is so bad that it affects the S-meter as well. Then the next minute its gone! Richy N2ZD
        >

        I have the exact same problem only started yesterday! All bands all modes would appreciate any help. many thanks
      • Darrel
        Just to add another data point: the identical problem started for me last weekend, on my FT857D (same board as the 897D) purchased new in April 2008. My
        Message 3 of 16 , Apr 9, 2010
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          Just to add another data point: the identical problem started for me
          last weekend, on my FT857D (same board as the 897D) purchased new in
          April 2008. My intermittent lightning-like crashes are also independent
          of frequency band, being there on all HF bands as well as on 144 and 430
          MHz. Both the RF and AF gain controls affect the strength, so it's not
          something just in the AF amplifier.

          I haven't yet found the exact culprit, but looking at the schematic, in
          my rig it's seems likely to be something after the switchable IF
          attenuator (which makes no difference, on or off, to the S9 crashes on
          the meter) and before or within the switchable 455 kHz IF filters (when
          I switch in a 500 Hz CW filter, the crashes are still there, but weaker,
          and you can hear the slight "ringing" of the CW filter on the
          intermittent crashes. That's a very different sound to the crashes
          coming through the AM filter.) Looking at the schematic, that may
          narrow it down to a relatively small number of components, although I've
          not yet located the specific component.

          I'd be interested in experiences from others with this problem. I
          wonder if will turn out to be the same component that fails in all the
          2007 thru 2009 rigs.
          73
          Darrel, aa7fv.
        • N4CQR
          Assuming this gets posted, you have a bad filter. It appears to be a common failure. There was a discussion about this several months back but it appears to
          Message 4 of 16 , Apr 9, 2010
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            Assuming this gets posted, you have a bad filter. It appears to be a common failure. There was a discussion about this several months back but it appears to have been deleted. (the Subject Line included: Static Crash like noise.)

            Craig 
             

            --- On Fri, 4/9/10, Darrel <74010.2230@...> wrote:

            > From: Darrel <74010.2230@...>
            > Subject: [FT897] Re: S9 noise with no antenna attached
            > To: FT897@yahoogroups.com
            > Date: Friday, April 9, 2010, 10:06 AM
            > Just to add another data point: 
            > the identical problem started for me
            > last weekend, on my FT857D (same board as the 897D)
            > purchased new in
            > April 2008.  My intermittent lightning-like crashes
            > are also independent
            > of frequency band, being there on all HF bands as well as
            > on 144 and 430
            > MHz.  Both the RF and AF gain controls affect the
            > strength, so it's not
            > something just in the AF amplifier.
            >
          • d_t_emerson
            Thanks. I thought I d seen earlier posting about this, but couldn t find it either. Do you remember if it was reported as XF1001 or CF1005? Darrel.
            Message 5 of 16 , Apr 9, 2010
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              Thanks. I thought I'd seen earlier posting about this, but couldn't find it either.
              Do you remember if it was reported as XF1001 or CF1005?
              Darrel.

              --- In FT897@yahoogroups.com, N4CQR <n4cqr@...> wrote:
              >
              > Assuming this gets posted, you have a bad filter. It appears to be a common failure. There was a discussion about this several months back but it appears to have been deleted. (the Subject Line included: Static Crash like noise.)
              >
              > Craig 
              >  
              >
              > --- On Fri, 4/9/10, Darrel <74010.2230@...> wrote:
              >
              > > From: Darrel <74010.2230@...>
              > > Subject: [FT897] Re: S9 noise with no antenna attached
              > > To: FT897@yahoogroups.com
              > > Date: Friday, April 9, 2010, 10:06 AM
              > > Just to add another data point: 
              > > the identical problem started for me
              > > last weekend, on my FT857D (same board as the 897D)
              > > purchased new in
              > > April 2008.  My intermittent lightning-like crashes
              > > are also independent
              > > of frequency band, being there on all HF bands as well as
              > > on 144 and 430
              > > MHz.  Both the RF and AF gain controls affect the
              > > strength, so it's not
              > > something just in the AF amplifier.
              > >
              >
            • w8bux
              Just got my 897 back from Yaesu today. They replaced a ceramic filter and that took care of it. They charged $70. Pete AA8L
              Message 6 of 16 , Apr 9, 2010
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                Just got my 897 back from Yaesu today. They replaced a ceramic filter and that took care of it. They charged $70.

                Pete AA8L

                --- In FT897@yahoogroups.com, "joez32265" <joez32265@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                >
                > --- In FT897@yahoogroups.com, "ft100guy" <ss409ss@> wrote:
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > I have owned quite a few 857's (electrically the same as an 897) and I just ran into this on a 2008 vintage one. The static comes and goes on this particular one and could be there one day and not the next. Anyway, it sounds like static crashes to the 10th magnitude on every band including 2m and 440. If you check around, it seems to be with 2007 thru 2009 vintage 857's and 897's so I suspect a bad run of a particular part or parts. If they replaced the ceramic filter and it cured it, I would believe it. One guy placed .01mfd caps on his filters and this cured it as well. I guess Murata had a bad run as this is typically the supplier of ceramic filters to Yaesu. Incidently, I have a mechanical filter installed and it happens. My guess is that it is way up the chain and not the ordinary ceramic filter (2.6) since it happens on every band in every mode with mine. It is so bad that it affects the S-meter as well. Then the next minute its gone! Richy N2ZD
                > >
                >
                > I have the exact same problem only started yesterday! All bands all modes would appreciate any help. many thanks
                >
              • N4CQR
                Pete, Just out of curosity, what was the turn around time on your radio? I had the same problem last year. Shipped on a Monday and had it back the following
                Message 7 of 16 , Apr 9, 2010
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                  Pete,

                  Just out of curosity, what was the turn around time on your radio? I had the same problem last year. Shipped on a Monday and had it back the following Monday. Mine was in warranty at the time. From KY to CA and back in 7 days is rather inpressive.

                  Thanks,

                  Craig 
                   

                  --- On Fri, 4/9/10, w8bux <aa8l@...> wrote:

                  > Just got my 897 back from Yaesu
                  > today.  They replaced a ceramic filter and that took
                  > care of it.  They charged $70.
                • w8bux
                  18 days from Michigan to California and back. Not in warranty, but they kept in touch, gave me an estimate to approve first, and satisfied their customer.
                  Message 8 of 16 , Apr 9, 2010
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                    18 days from Michigan to California and back. Not in warranty, but they kept in touch, gave me an estimate to approve first, and satisfied their customer.

                    Pete AA8L

                    --- In FT897@yahoogroups.com, N4CQR <n4cqr@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Pete,
                    >
                    > Just out of curosity, what was the turn around time on your radio? I had the same problem last year. Shipped on a Monday and had it back the following Monday. Mine was in warranty at the time. From KY to CA and back in 7 days is rather inpressive.
                    >
                    > Thanks,
                    >
                    > Craig 
                    >  
                    >
                    > --- On Fri, 4/9/10, w8bux <aa8l@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > > Just got my 897 back from Yaesu
                    > > today.  They replaced a ceramic filter and that took
                    > > care of it.  They charged $70.
                    >
                  • N4CQR
                    Thanks, Pete! I just like to keep track of these things for what ever reason. Sounds like good service to me. I suspect production of the 897 will cease not
                    Message 9 of 16 , Apr 9, 2010
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                      Thanks, Pete!

                      I just like to keep track of these things for what ever reason. Sounds like good service to me.

                      I suspect production of the 897 will cease not too far into the future. And I hope I can have the funds to get another and stash it away. Dar fine radio for what it does. I use mine mostly on V/UHF and SWLing. Lost interest in HF years ago with the exception of digital modes on 20 and 40.

                      Then who knows, It's life may be like the FT-840. Still a bargin HF rig.

                      Have a pleasant weekend!

                      Craig 
                       

                      --- On Fri, 4/9/10, w8bux <aa8l@...> wrote:

                      > 18 days from Michigan to California
                      > and back.  Not in warranty, but they kept in touch,
                      > gave me an estimate to approve first, and satisfied their
                      > customer.
                    • d_t_emerson
                      Thanks, Craig. Looking at posts in this and other groups, there seems to be overwhelming evidence that the AM filter, CF1005, frequently goes bad. That also
                      Message 10 of 16 , Apr 11, 2010
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                        Thanks, Craig.

                        Looking at posts in this and other groups, there seems to be overwhelming evidence that the AM filter, CF1005, frequently goes bad. That also seems to be the case also in my own FT857D, purchased April 2008.

                        I noticed something in the schematic and filter data-sheets:

                        1. In the Toko data-sheet for an ALFYM455H=K ceramic filter, which is the type used as CF1005, there is the note: "DC Decoupling capacitor. We recommend connecting a capacitor ... shutting off the DC current."

                        So, the manufacturer recommends that the filter should only be AC coupled.

                        2. Looking at the FT857D (or 897...) schematic, the filter CF1005 is _not_ AC-coupled. The full diode DC switching voltage seems to be applied across both the input and output of this filter, contrary to the filter manufacturer's recommendation.

                        3. Looking at the similar CF1004 (SSB) filter in the FT897/857D schematic, the switching circuity is almost identical, except that there _are_ capacitors that block the DC to this filter input and output. I've not seen any failures reported for this filter.

                        If DC is applied to CF1005, against the filter manufacturer's recommendations, then occasional failures might not be surprising. I could well believe that some batches of filters may be more immune to failure from unwanted DC than others.

                        Did Vertex/Yaesu designers simply forget to include the DC blocking capacitors for CF1005 in the 897/857 design? If so, this might explain the premature failures of CF1005. If true, then a fix for a bad CF1005 filter might be simply to add blocking capacitors at the input and output, copying the schematic for CF1004. More to the point, adding the capacitors on a good filter might avoid a later failure.

                        I haven't yet tried this. Does it make sense? I'm likely missing something important. Does anyone know of a Vertex/Yaesu Service Bulletin that might address this point?

                        73
                        Darrel.

                        --- In FT897@yahoogroups.com, N4CQR <n4cqr@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Assuming this gets posted, you have a bad filter. It appears to be a common failure. There was a discussion about this several months back but it appears to have been deleted. (the Subject Line included: Static Crash like noise.)
                        >
                        > Craig 
                        >  
                        >
                      • ft100guy
                        I have a 2008 vintage 857D and had the heavy static, when the crashes went away I noticed that the RX was very wide in that I can hear the edges of other
                        Message 11 of 16 , Apr 24, 2010
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                          I have a 2008 vintage 857D and had the heavy static, when the crashes went away I noticed that the RX was very wide in that I can hear the edges of other signals to the left and right of my frequency, regardless of my two filter selections of ceramic or 1.9 inrad. I now know for a fact that up the chain there is the ceramic filter which must have gave up the ghost and is now passing wide rx to the two I have. You will notice it is more difficult to tune in as you will get two signals in the passband at once and a funky sound when on a crowded band as if you are using an AM filter on SSB.


                          --- In FT897@yahoogroups.com, "d_t_emerson" <74010.2230@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Thanks, Craig.
                          >
                          > Looking at posts in this and other groups, there seems to be overwhelming evidence that the AM filter, CF1005, frequently goes bad. That also seems to be the case also in my own FT857D, purchased April 2008.
                          >
                          > I noticed something in the schematic and filter data-sheets:
                          >
                          > 1. In the Toko data-sheet for an ALFYM455H=K ceramic filter, which is the type used as CF1005, there is the note: "DC Decoupling capacitor. We recommend connecting a capacitor ... shutting off the DC current."
                          >
                          > So, the manufacturer recommends that the filter should only be AC coupled.
                          >
                          > 2. Looking at the FT857D (or 897...) schematic, the filter CF1005 is _not_ AC-coupled. The full diode DC switching voltage seems to be applied across both the input and output of this filter, contrary to the filter manufacturer's recommendation.
                          >
                          > 3. Looking at the similar CF1004 (SSB) filter in the FT897/857D schematic, the switching circuity is almost identical, except that there _are_ capacitors that block the DC to this filter input and output. I've not seen any failures reported for this filter.
                          >
                          > If DC is applied to CF1005, against the filter manufacturer's recommendations, then occasional failures might not be surprising. I could well believe that some batches of filters may be more immune to failure from unwanted DC than others.
                          >
                          > Did Vertex/Yaesu designers simply forget to include the DC blocking capacitors for CF1005 in the 897/857 design? If so, this might explain the premature failures of CF1005. If true, then a fix for a bad CF1005 filter might be simply to add blocking capacitors at the input and output, copying the schematic for CF1004. More to the point, adding the capacitors on a good filter might avoid a later failure.
                          >
                          > I haven't yet tried this. Does it make sense? I'm likely missing something important. Does anyone know of a Vertex/Yaesu Service Bulletin that might address this point?
                          >
                          > 73
                          > Darrel.
                          >
                          > --- In FT897@yahoogroups.com, N4CQR <n4cqr@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Assuming this gets posted, you have a bad filter. It appears to be a common failure. There was a discussion about this several months back but it appears to have been deleted. (the Subject Line included: Static Crash like noise.)
                          > >
                          > > Craig�
                          > > �
                          > >
                          >
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