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Re: New religious satire animated short on Youtube

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  • swimmingkangaroo
    I wasn t going to respond to this, but I thought about it and decided to throw my two cents in, fwiw. Fletcher, you raise some good points. I doubt that my
    Message 1 of 11 , Oct 19, 2006
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      I wasn't going to respond to this, but I thought about it and
      decided to throw my two cents in, fwiw.

      Fletcher, you raise some good points. I doubt that my response will
      be as thoughtful as Tim's, but I'm going to approach things from a
      different perspective.

      Friends and relatives who are Christians frequently send me emails
      bashing atheists. I also hear atheist-bashing jokes at work, many
      times in the form of an over reaction to political correctness, but
      other times just plain thoughtlessness. Christians routinely and
      regularly bash atheists (or have you not listened to Pat
      Robertsonlately?) I am sure that you, yourself do not do such a
      thing, but others do.

      My point, however, is not a "well they do it too" type of argument,
      but rather that when people are within groups of like-minded
      individuals, they often engage in humor at the expense of outside
      groups. The people who send me emails are doing so because they
      assume I am one of them because I share many of their values. The
      people at work who tell jokes in my presence make the same
      assumption-- they probably would not do so if they knew that I am an
      atheist.

      If I am emailing jokes about Christians, I do not send them to my
      friends and relatives who are Christian out of consideration for
      their feelings. (I do, however, send blonde jokes to my blonde
      daughter-- but that's a totally different matter!)However, when I am
      with other atheists or freethinkers, I have no compunctions about
      religious jokes.

      This group is set up specifically as a group for things that free-
      thinkers find funny. I am on other groups that are dominated by
      Christians that regularly send around things that Christians find
      funny (which often entails atheist bashing.) It's my choice to be on
      those groups because I like the people and enjoy their company. It's
      my choice to be on this group because I'll admit that I enjoy
      laughing at the jokes.

      That's the key point here-- choice. I would not dream of telling the
      people on the other lists to stop sending their bashing emails
      because it is offensive to me. If I find it gets to be too
      offensive, then I'll leave the group.

      No one is forced to join this group-- they do so of their own
      choice. And I'll even admit that sometimes the jokes that go out are
      a little extreme for my taste. But it's still my choice. If you'll
      excuse me for being rude, if you don't like the jokes, then don't
      join the list. I can refer you to plenty of other groups that engage
      in bashing from the Christian side of the fence. You can join them
      and complain about the offensiveness of their humor.

      Dindy
      Dive iinto a good book at www.swimmingkangaroo.com

      --- In FT-HUMOR@yahoogroups.com, fletcher rhoden
      <fletcherrhoden@...> wrote:
      >
      > Another thoughtful response, Tim. Of course Christian
      > organizations have lawyers, as do many organizations
      > and private citizens. Didn't mean to imply otherwise.
      > But how many defamation lawsuits have been filed by
      > Christian organizations as opposed to organizations
      > that represent other groups? As for the
      > minority/majority principle, I personally feel that
      > the number of persons in a group shouldn't affect the
      > concepts at stake. If you can ridicule one group of
      > ten thousand but not a group of ten, then there is a
      > dangerous inconsistancy being applied. The reverse is
      > that you can only mock the minorites and NOT the
      > majority, which I'm sure wouldn't be pleasing to
      > anyone --facism, y'know. I only offer that the same
      > concepts be applied to all groups, regardless of their
      > presumed majority power. And as for Christians not
      > turning the other cheek or forgiving others the full
      > 490, I wouldn't presuppose to ascribe to Christians
      > ANY pattern of behavior, anymore than I would people
      > of color or other religious conviction. Call them all
      > unforgiving as a group, call them whimpering (a
      > devisive and summerial phrase that belies the rest of
      > your rational argument) and you run the risk of
      > applying a bias to them, revealing a prejudice --
      > that's exactly what my short is about. I address or
      > protect no group in particular, my target is with
      > people who think everybody BUT Christians should be
      > respected, as this is as prejudiced and reprehensible
      > as prejudice against any other group, no matter how
      > many lawyers they have. And as for whimpering? I
      > raise this issue, but I'm the first Christian in my
      > personal community to do so that I know of -- and I
      > personally don't consider satire a whimper, but a
      > roar. But what you say is also true -- hey, you gotta
      > laugh at SOMETHING. Best, I think, if we all start
      > laughing at ourselves instead of at each other.
      >
    • fletcher rhoden
      No, a very thoughtful response, Dindy. Thanks for your interest, but I think I must be misunderstood here. I don t take offense to jokes of this nature in
      Message 2 of 11 , Oct 19, 2006
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        No, a very thoughtful response, Dindy. Thanks for
        your interest, but I think I must be misunderstood
        here. I don't take offense to jokes of this nature in
        and of themselves -- I created the short which is
        filled with offensive jokes (although I did not write
        the jokes). I'm not complaining about jokes on this
        site -- contrarily, I'm pleased to have excited such
        an interesting discussion. I'm not telling anyone
        what jokes to tell any more than I want them to tell
        me what jokes to tell. I'm a Lenny Bruce fan from way
        back, a warrior for freedom of speech. I raise the
        issue that while most people preach the doctrine of
        political correctness, they violate that doctrine
        themselves in a quantity they may not realize -- Like
        Lenny, it's the hypocisy that bothers me, not the
        graphicness of the humor on its own. Jokes are fine,
        I have stepped out with some pretty graphic material
        which has offended numerous people contrary to my
        intention, so I'm not constricting anyone's freedom of
        speech. And I imagine I am as keenly aware of this
        group as a forum of freethinking humorists as much as
        the other members, or else I wouldn't have posted the
        url for my short. I wouldn't have joined the club at
        all if I didn't seek out and value the free exchange
        of contrary opinion. For me, this is a matter of
        consistancy, not policy. What bothers me is pointed
        out in Tim's response -- that political correctness is
        contingent on the minority or the majority. I say
        merely that if we can joke about one group freely, why
        not all? And if some, but not others, why so? Simple
        numbers? What happens when the minority numbers
        change? Let the free exchange continue, and thanks
        again for your interest!
        ps -- I don't listen to Pat Robertson.

        --- swimmingkangaroo <dindy@...>
        wrote:

        > I wasn't going to respond to this, but I thought
        > about it and
        > decided to throw my two cents in, fwiw.
        >
        > Fletcher, you raise some good points. I doubt that
        > my response will
        > be as thoughtful as Tim's, but I'm going to approach
        > things from a
        > different perspective.
        >
        > Friends and relatives who are Christians frequently
        > send me emails
        > bashing atheists. I also hear atheist-bashing jokes
        > at work, many
        > times in the form of an over reaction to political
        > correctness, but
        > other times just plain thoughtlessness. Christians
        > routinely and
        > regularly bash atheists (or have you not listened to
        > Pat
        > Robertsonlately?) I am sure that you, yourself do
        > not do such a
        > thing, but others do.
        >
        > My point, however, is not a "well they do it too"
        > type of argument,
        > but rather that when people are within groups of
        > like-minded
        > individuals, they often engage in humor at the
        > expense of outside
        > groups. The people who send me emails are doing so
        > because they
        > assume I am one of them because I share many of
        > their values. The
        > people at work who tell jokes in my presence make
        > the same
        > assumption-- they probably would not do so if they
        > knew that I am an
        > atheist.
        >
        > If I am emailing jokes about Christians, I do not
        > send them to my
        > friends and relatives who are Christian out of
        > consideration for
        > their feelings. (I do, however, send blonde jokes to
        > my blonde
        > daughter-- but that's a totally different
        > matter!)However, when I am
        > with other atheists or freethinkers, I have no
        > compunctions about
        > religious jokes.
        >
        > This group is set up specifically as a group for
        > things that free-
        > thinkers find funny. I am on other groups that are
        > dominated by
        > Christians that regularly send around things that
        > Christians find
        > funny (which often entails atheist bashing.) It's my
        > choice to be on
        > those groups because I like the people and enjoy
        > their company. It's
        > my choice to be on this group because I'll admit
        > that I enjoy
        > laughing at the jokes.
        >
        > That's the key point here-- choice. I would not
        > dream of telling the
        > people on the other lists to stop sending their
        > bashing emails
        > because it is offensive to me. If I find it gets to
        > be too
        > offensive, then I'll leave the group.
        >
        > No one is forced to join this group-- they do so of
        > their own
        > choice. And I'll even admit that sometimes the jokes
        > that go out are
        > a little extreme for my taste. But it's still my
        > choice. If you'll
        > excuse me for being rude, if you don't like the
        > jokes, then don't
        > join the list. I can refer you to plenty of other
        > groups that engage
        > in bashing from the Christian side of the fence. You
        > can join them
        > and complain about the offensiveness of their humor.
        >
        > Dindy
        > Dive iinto a good book at www.swimmingkangaroo.com
        >
        > --- In FT-HUMOR@yahoogroups.com, fletcher rhoden
        > <fletcherrhoden@...> wrote:
        > >
        > > Another thoughtful response, Tim. Of course
        > Christian
        > > organizations have lawyers, as do many
        > organizations
        > > and private citizens. Didn't mean to imply
        > otherwise.
        > > But how many defamation lawsuits have been filed
        > by
        > > Christian organizations as opposed to
        > organizations
        > > that represent other groups? As for the
        > > minority/majority principle, I personally feel
        > that
        > > the number of persons in a group shouldn't affect
        > the
        > > concepts at stake. If you can ridicule one group
        > of
        > > ten thousand but not a group of ten, then there is
        > a
        > > dangerous inconsistancy being applied. The
        > reverse is
        > > that you can only mock the minorites and NOT the
        > > majority, which I'm sure wouldn't be pleasing to
        > > anyone --facism, y'know. I only offer that the
        > same
        > > concepts be applied to all groups, regardless of
        > their
        > > presumed majority power. And as for Christians
        > not
        > > turning the other cheek or forgiving others the
        > full
        > > 490, I wouldn't presuppose to ascribe to
        > Christians
        > > ANY pattern of behavior, anymore than I would
        > people
        > > of color or other religious conviction. Call them
        > all
        > > unforgiving as a group, call them whimpering (a
        > > devisive and summerial phrase that belies the rest
        > of
        > > your rational argument) and you run the risk of
        > > applying a bias to them, revealing a prejudice --
        > > that's exactly what my short is about. I address
        > or
        > > protect no group in particular, my target is with
        > > people who think everybody BUT Christians should
        > be
        > > respected, as this is as prejudiced and
        > reprehensible
        > > as prejudice against any other group, no matter
        > how
        > > many lawyers they have. And as for whimpering? I
        > > raise this issue, but I'm the first Christian in
        > my
        > > personal community to do so that I know of -- and
        > I
        > > personally don't consider satire a whimper, but a
        > > roar. But what you say is also true -- hey, you
        > gotta
        > > laugh at SOMETHING. Best, I think, if we all
        > start
        > > laughing at ourselves instead of at each other.
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • MadPoet
        I have been treading this and laughing and laughing. And then, somebody demanded me to expain what s so funny about it. I think it s the view of Christians as
        Message 3 of 11 , Oct 20, 2006
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          I have been treading this and laughing and laughing.

          And then, somebody demanded me to expain what's so funny about it.

          I think it's the view of Christians as victims, get it? The
          oppressors as victims, now that is hilarious! Let's get
          out the straps, whips, racks and stocks, and go after
          them! Let's harrass them, call them infidels and heretics,
          chase them down the street with our science books in
          hand. We should be able to subdue them. We have,
          after all, taken lessons from them all our lives.

          As far as the ridiculing goes, they should be responsible
          to take care of their own, but they don't--the majority
          of them join in with the rest of us and have at it with
          relish they make only too obvious. That's who victimizes
          them the most--their own people of slightly different
          opinions. As far as dismissiveness, that's what their
          entire religion is about: to dismiss the rest of the world
          as infidels and heretics bound for hellfire and damnation.
          What leads to dismissiveness on our part is that they can
          show no evidence of it, but still push it onto the rest of
          the world in a very aggressive manner. Our choice is to
          argue or dismiss. To argue is a waste of time, but to
          poke fun at the ridiculousness of obvious insanity does
          seem to get their attention.

          So, let the apologia end and the fun return. Where is the
          moderator who ought to have put an end to this before the
          first post of it? Watch this be the only message about it
          that he stops from getting posted.

          ---Lloyd---

          >- -----Original Message-----
          >- From: FT-HUMOR@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FT-HUMOR@yahoogroups.com]On
          >- Behalf Of fletcher rhoden
          >- Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 12:23 AM
          >- To: FT-HUMOR@yahoogroups.com
          >- Subject: Re: [FT-HUMOR] New religious satire animated short on Youtube
          >-
          >-
          >- Another thoughtful response, Tim. Of course Christian
          >- organizations have lawyers, as do many organizations
          >- and private citizens. Didn't mean to imply otherwise.
          >- But how many defamation lawsuits have been filed by
          >- Christian organizations as opposed to organizations
          >- that represent other groups? As for the
          >- minority/majority principle, I personally feel that
          >- the number of persons in a group shouldn't affect the
          >- concepts at stake. If you can ridicule one group of
          >- ten thousand but not a group of ten, then there is a
          >- dangerous inconsistancy being applied. The reverse is
          >- that you can only mock the minorites and NOT the
          >- majority, which I'm sure wouldn't be pleasing to
          >- anyone --facism, y'know. I only offer that the same
          >- concepts be applied to all groups, regardless of their
          >- presumed majority power. And as for Christians not
          >- turning the other cheek or forgiving others the full
          >- 490, I wouldn't presuppose to ascribe to Christians
          >- ANY pattern of behavior, anymore than I would people
          >- of color or other religious conviction. Call them all
          >- unforgiving as a group, call them whimpering (a
          >- devisive and summerial phrase that belies the rest of
          >- your rational argument) and you run the risk of
          >- applying a bias to them, revealing a prejudice --
          >- that's exactly what my short is about. I address or
          >- protect no group in particular, my target is with
          >- people who think everybody BUT Christians should be
          >- respected, as this is as prejudiced and reprehensible
          >- as prejudice against any other group, no matter how
          >- many lawyers they have. And as for whimpering? I
          >- raise this issue, but I'm the first Christian in my
          >- personal community to do so that I know of -- and I
          >- personally don't consider satire a whimper, but a
          >- roar. But what you say is also true -- hey, you gotta
          >- laugh at SOMETHING. Best, I think, if we all start
          >- laughing at ourselves instead of at each other.
          >-
          >- --- "Tim D. Williamson" <timdwilliamson@...>
          >- wrote:
          >-
          >- > --- fletcher rhoden <fletcherrhoden@...>
          >- > wrote:
          >- >
          >- > > That's well spoken, Tim -- your point is
          >- > excellent.
          >- > > But I feel that the rules of gentility, when
          >- > applied
          >- > > across the board, should be APPLIED ACROSS THE
          >- > > BOARD.
          >- > > It's not the demonization of Christians in
          >- > > particular,
          >- > > but the hypocrisy of our politically correct
          >- > world.
          >- > > Even the most liberal people, those who would
          >- > raise
          >- > > hell at the merest suggestion of racist or ethnic
          >- > > humor, will turn on a Christian and exhibit the
          >- > same
          >- > > kind of dismissive, prejudiced behavior they claim
          >- > > to
          >- > > hate. I think the reason Christians are such an
          >- > > easy
          >- > > target is that they don't protest when defamed,
          >- > and
          >- > > many other groups have organizations with lawyers
          >- > > and
          >- > > agendas to raise hell at the slightest hint of
          >- > > discrimination.
          >- > > Thanks for the kind words, and for your time and
          >- > > attention.
          >- >
          >- > You're quite welcome. "Political correctness" was
          >- > and
          >- > is an well-meant but futile effort to protect
          >- > minorities from biased speech. (Like most well-meant
          >- > but futile efforts, it failed in excess.)
          >- > Christians,
          >- > despite their whimpering, are not a minority. In
          >- > fact,
          >- > Christians seem to be a majority begging for
          >- > protection from a vocal minority. To say that
          >- > Christians "turn the other cheek" so to speak is
          >- > naive. Christians are very outspoken when slighted
          >- > and
          >- > the first to try to deny others the right to a fair
          >- > playing field in discussions of morality, ethics,
          >- > law,
          >- > etc. Few Christians are willing to allow the 490
          >- > offenses dictated by Jesus' teachings and often buck
          >- > at the very first.
          >- >
          >- > One of the reasons political correctness has and
          >- > will
          >- > continue to fail is that most humor is at the cost
          >- > of
          >- > someone or some idea and trade in laughter is one of
          >- > the most basic tenets of human communication.
          >- >
          >- > As for Christians not having lawyers...
          >- >
          >- > Well that's just funny.
          >- >
          >- > __________________________________________________
        • Donna Gore
          Dindy wrote: The people who send me emails are doing so because they assume I am one of them because I share many of their values. The people at work who tell
          Message 4 of 11 , Oct 20, 2006
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            Dindy wrote:

            "The people who send me emails are doing so because they
            assume I am one of them because I share many of their values. The
            people at work who tell jokes in my presence make the same
            assumption-- "



            It's funny how some people assume that everyone else agrees with
            them. Of course it would be safe to make that assumption on a common
            interest group on Yahoo but in a place like work, well . . .

            I never bring up the subject of religion but if someone else does, I
            tell them exactly what I think of their religion. How can they get
            mad at me, when they started it?

            One day last year, a woman left a note on my desk on the "National
            Day of Prayer" which read "We must pray. We must pray for our
            country. We must pray for our president."

            I asked her this question:
            Exactly what did I say or do that gave you the impression that I am,
            (a) a Christian, and (b) a Bush supporter?

            She just stuttered and stammered because of course she had no reply.

            She then had to admit that she was making an ASSUMPTION.

            As far as this group goes, I think it's reasonable to assume that you
            are going to read offensive jokes here, and if you don't like it then
            you don't need to be here.

            FUCK political correctness. I'm SICK OF IT. It has gotten to the
            point of censorship. People want to re-write history in the name of
            PC. They want to DENY reality in the name of PC.

            The way I see it, everything offends somebody. That is a small price
            to pay for FREEDOM OF SPEECH.
          • Gator
            Did I get your attention by putting the word “Christianity” in the subject box? Good! I was a member of a cult religion for 35 years, followed by freedom
            Message 5 of 11 , Oct 20, 2006
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              Did I get your attention by putting the word “Christianity” in the
              subject box? Good!

              I was a member of a cult religion for 35 years, followed by freedom the
              last two decades. It is my contention that religion has caused most of
              the wars, dissension, and hate in the world. Some religions do good,
              such as the one to which I’m a volunteer. The services provided are
              free food, clothing, furniture, computers, financial planning education,
              and personal counseling. I’m an Atheist, yet the charity where I work
              free, doesn’t care. The same churches supporting the charity are
              staunch Republicans, judgmental Right Wing Conservatisms, and pro-life.
              Those features make me want to vomit.

              After researching religion for fifty years, including the Nag Hammadi
              writings, early church history, and Gnosticism, I can no longer believe
              in a God. One premise of all religions is “God created ALL things.” If
              this is true, God created A.L.S., cancer, heart disease, polio (we
              kicked God’s ass by defeating polio), blindness, deafness, birth
              defects, leukemia, and all which kills and maims humanity. If we credit
              God for the good, we must also credit God for badness. Don’t forget
              God’s gift of Alzheimer’s, arthritis, and diabetes!

              Our current Government leaders are flaunting God and their religions to
              the world. President Bush mentions “God” in almost every speech he
              makes. Whatever happened to “freedom of religion”? By flaunting
              Christianity to all the world, we challenge Moslems and other religions
              to become defensive and only serves to divide humanity. Every religion
              believes their God can kick the ass of other religions’ Gods. In
              defense of their “God”, they commit murder and terrorism. The result of
              religious fanaticism will be terrible consequences for humanity.
              America must offer a dove, instead of sending an aircraft carrier with
              war machinery.

              Check out my web site: HYPERLINK
              "http://gatorsden.org/Cosmic.htm"http://gatorsden.org/Cosmic.htm and
              HYPERLINK
              "http://gatorsden.org/Cosmic2.htm"http://gatorsden.org/Cosmic2.htm
              -Gator



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            • paul stoneman
              I dunno Gator, the whole world is insane. That s why I espouse Beer as my lifestyle although I don t preach it, (unless I m really wasted). Here s a
              Message 6 of 11 , Oct 21, 2006
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                I dunno Gator, the whole world is insane. That's why I espouse "Beer" as my lifestyle although I don't preach it, (unless I'm really wasted). Here's a bunch of reasons I've just written off the whole show as plain nuts.



                In Lebanon , men are legally allowed to have sex with animals, but the animals must be female. Having sexual relations with a male animal is punishable by death. (Like THAT makes sense.)

                In Bahrain , a male doctor may legally examine a woman's genitals, but is prohibited from looking directly at them during the examination. He may only see their reflection in a mirror.

                (Do they look different reversed?)

                Muslims are banned from looking at the genitals of a corpse. This also applies to undertakers. The sex organs of the deceased must be covered with a brick or piece of wood at all times.

                (A brick?)


                The penalty for masturbation in Indonesia is decapitation.

                (Much worse than "going blind!")


                There are men in Guam whose full- time job is to travel the countryside
                And deflower young virgins, who pay them for the privilege of having sex for the first time. The reason? Under Guam law, it is expressly forbidden for virgins to marry.

                (Let's just think for a minute; is there any job anywhere else in the world that even comes close to this?)


                In Hong Kong , a betrayed wife is legally allowed to kill her adulterous husband, but may only do so with her bare hands. The husband's illicit lover, on the other hand, may be killed in any manner desired.

                (Ah! Justice!)


                Topless saleswomen are legal in Liverpool , England - but only in tropical fish stores.

                (But of course!)


                In Cali , Colombia , a woman may only have sex with her husband, and the first time this happens, her mother must be in the room to witness the act.

                (Makes one shudder at the thought.)


                In Santa Cruz , Bolivia , it is illegal for a man to have sex with a woman and her daughter at the same time.

                (I presume this was a big enough problem that they had to pass this law?)


                In Maryland , it is illegal to sell condoms from vending machines with one exception: Prophylactics may be dispensed from a vending machine only "in places where alcoholic beverages are sold for consumption on the premises."

                (Is this a great country or what? Well, not as great as Guam!)


                Banging your head against a wall uses 150 calories an hour.

                (Who volunteers for this stuff?)


                Humans and dolphins are the only species that have sex for pleasure.

                (Is that why Flipper was always smiling?)


                The ant can lift 50 times it's own weight, can pull 30 times it's own weight and always falls over on it's right side when intoxicated.

                (From drinking little bottles of??? Did the government pay for this research??)


                Butterflies taste with their feet.

                (Ah, geez.)


                An ostrich's eye is bigger than its brain.

                (I know some people like that.)


                Starfish don't have brains.

                (I know some people like that, too.)


                And, the best for last? Turtles can breathe through their butts.

                (And I thought I had bad breath in the morning!)

                ---------------------------------


                Gator <gatorsden@...> wrote:
                Did I get your attention by putting the word “Christianity” in the
                subject box? Good!

                I was a member of a cult religion for 35 years, followed by freedom the
                last two decades. It is my contention that religion has caused most of
                the wars, dissension, and hate in the world. Some religions do good,
                such as the one to which I’m a volunteer. The services provided are
                free food, clothing, furniture, computers, financial planning education,
                and personal counseling. I’m an Atheist, yet the charity where I work
                free, doesn’t care. The same churches supporting the charity are
                staunch Republicans, judgmental Right Wing Conservatisms, and pro-life.
                Those features make me want to vomit.

                After researching religion for fifty years, including the Nag Hammadi
                writings, early church history, and Gnosticism, I can no longer believe
                in a God. One premise of all religions is “God created ALL things.” If
                this is true, God created A.L.S., cancer, heart disease, polio (we
                kicked God’s ass by defeating polio), blindness, deafness, birth
                defects, leukemia, and all which kills and maims humanity. If we credit
                God for the good, we must also credit God for badness. Don’t forget
                God’s gift of Alzheimer’s, arthritis, and diabetes!

                Our current Government leaders are flaunting God and their religions to
                the world. President Bush mentions “God” in almost every speech he
                makes. Whatever happened to “freedom of religion”? By flaunting
                Christianity to all the world, we challenge Moslems and other religions
                to become defensive and only serves to divide humanity. Every religion
                believes their God can kick the ass of other religions’ Gods. In
                defense of their “God”, they commit murder and terrorism. The result of
                religious fanaticism will be terrible consequences for humanity.
                America must offer a dove, instead of sending an aircraft carrier with
                war machinery.

                Check out my web site: HYPERLINK
                "http://gatorsden.org/Cosmic.htm"http://gatorsden.org/Cosmic.htm and
                HYPERLINK
                "http://gatorsden.org/Cosmic2.htm"http://gatorsden.org/Cosmic2.htm
                -Gator



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