RE: [FSP_DFW] Re: Libertarian Comment
That is exactly what is happening, we agree, if it wasn’t happening then criminal acts and the legislation and justice of the legislation would be in the hands of (judged by) citizen juries where it is supposed to be since the Magna Carta in 1215. The Bill of Rights clearly designates the Jury, not government or its judges as the Judge in all criminal cases.
I sure do not have any concrete answers other than trying to get citizens to study the Constitution, Federalist Papers, and information on the true purpose of citizen juries. FIJA has proper information on the duty of juries as does a 13 year young fellow in NJ.
http://www.jurorsrule.com/ the 13 year old’s site.
The links to those sites are posted on another inactive site of mine at:
What citizens can’t get in their head is that government “legislation” is their enemy exempting their freedom and Rights. All legislation law is inferior to Constitutional Law and government enforces its legislation and subdues citizens simply because citizens do not enforce their superior Law, the Constitution. Citizens have only two peaceful powers available to use to force government Officials to honor their Oath of Office; the Ballot Box (to fire those that do not honor the Oath and the Jury Box, as already discussed.
From: FSP_DFW@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FSP_DFW@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Skip
Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2005 1:36 PM
Subject: [FSP_DFW] Re: Libertarian Comment
It is true that citizens on juries have a right to judge not only the
merits of a case, but the constitutionality of the law itself.
However, in many states it is illegal for anyone connected to a
judicial case to inform a jury of this power of nullification, and in
many cases people have been thrown off of juries for discussing it
among themselves. The process of voir dire almost always excludes
potential jurors from service if they state or imply that they might
judge the law itself. Judges in many states routinely lie to jurors
and tell them that they may not judge the law, but only decide on the
merits of the case under the assumption that the law is
constitutional. Some jurors have been prosecuted for doing so.
This is just one example that shows how our government has usurped the
liberty of the people and ensured that none can thwart their control.
Can you suggest a practical and realistically attainable way to fix
it? Because if you can, then that will be a nice big step toward
returning governing power to the people.
--- In FSP_DFW@yahoogroups.com, "Allan Hampton" <ahampton@c...> wrote:
> I thought the point of FSP is freedom and I see an ill definition of
> freedom discussed by Free Staters. Freedom and how to reestablish it is
> my only interest in the political arena. Political parties are not the
> defenders of freedom but are a bane to it and it is quite evident so are
> Public Officials a bane to freedom. It is the People (the entire U.S.
> Citizenry) that is the defender of freedom.
> As stated correctly to this group public Officials enact and enforce
> government "legislation" against citizen's freedom. What citizens
> evidently do not comprehend is that they serve on citizen juries for the
> express purpose to insure justice by not only judging the facts against
> the accused but the legality (or constitutionality) and just application
> of the "legislation" of the case.
> "The sadist epitaph which can be carved in memory of vanished liberty is
> that it was lost because its possessors failed to stretch a saving hand
> while there was time" Ibid.
> The possessors (owners) of freedom in America, the Republic, is the
> People. Government Officials, all of them, are not free in their
> official capacities; they are bound by Citizens' Law, the Constitution,
> the supreme Law of the land.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: FSP_DFW@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FSP_DFW@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> Of dallpmatthewm
> Sent: Friday, May 06, 2005 6:34 AM
> To: FSP_DFW@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [FSP_DFW] Libertarian Comment
> I myself am planning to run for a congrssional seat in 2010, most
> likely for distric 112.
> While the discussion has taken up a lot of space on this board, and
> distracted many from the point of the FSP, discussions are good to
> have to understand what true liberty is all about. Anyone wanting to
> be involved with the libertarians is welcome, contact your local
> activist. Also read the libertarian platform online. Feel free to
> post any questions to your local activist that you have about the
> platform they can better explain why a particular stance was chosen.
> As for the lawless vs government factor, governments are naturally
> formed when groups of people with similar views, issues, or
> intentions join together to have a greater influence in living their
> lives as they so choose. If they don't agree with it, it should be
> their right to not live under that government. The is why there was
> an escape clause written into the government. The founding fathers
> had a great idea, but absolute power has absolutely corrupted the US
> government in Washington. Power should be decentralized to the
> states and communities so that power is limited and only directly
> affects those that have influence over that power. A Government by
> the Governed. Someone in Massachusettes can't tell me they know
> better what is right for me here in Texas. I am a Texan for Texas.
> That is why I am running for Texas Government. The establishment in
> washington should be minimized to the point that is bare functions
> serve as a single voice for the states to promote liberty, the
> protection from force or fraud. The ideals of which must first be
> brought to the community, then the city, then the county, then the
> state. DC should not be making "blanket" laws because what is right
> for one, may not be right for another. If you don't agree with the
> law, you should be allowed to leave it as long as you do not commit
> force or fraud on another person. Lawlessness would not protect
> against such injustices.
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