Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

'Excelsior' joins the Crowsnest Tramway (West)

Expand Messages
  • Mike South
    Model Photos: http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/FS32NGModelrail/photos/view/642a?b=16&m=f&o=0
    Message 1 of 8 , Sep 26, 2008
      Model Photos:

      http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/FS32NGModelrail/photos/view/642a?b=16&m=f&o=0
      http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/FS32NGModelrail/photos/view/642a?b=17&m=f&o=0
      http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/FS32NGModelrail/photos/view/642a?b=18&m=f&o=0

      Herewith classic 2ft gauge English industrial 'boomer' steam
      locomotive 'Excelsior', built in 1/32 scale by Paul Berntsen
      originally to 16.5 mm gauge and subsequently regauged to 3/4"/19.05mm
      (America NMRS 'On3'), then painted and weathered by Australian
      professional modeller/painter Bernard Snoodyk of 'Oz32' in Queensland.
      The 'real world' prototype was built by W.G. Bagnall, Stafford,
      England, as an 0-4-0 IST, Works No. 970 of 1888, and later modified
      into an 0-4-2 IST. 'Excelsior' ran originally on Christopher J.
      Naylor's Bryn-Llwarch Hall Estate's 'Kerry Tramway', Montgomeryshire
      (as a 'gentleman's light sporting locomotive'), and was later sold
      after conversion into an 0-4-2 IST to Messrs. James Nuttall and Sons
      of Manchester, contractors for the public carrier Lynton & Barnstaple
      Railway, Devon. She was finally sold to F.J. Barnes Ltd.'s Portland,
      Dorset, dressed stone quarries, where she 'disappeared' in the late
      1930's. This loco has long been a (gentle) obsession of Roy Link,
      Editor/Proprietor of the excellent British magazine 'Narrow Gauge &
      Industrial Railway Modelling REVIEW'. Bernard Snoodyk has also built
      his own delightful 1/35 scale version of this same loco - photos may
      be found at:-

      http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/FS32NGModelrail/photos/browse/51d3

      See one of Roy's articles about 'Excelsior' at:

      http://www.narrowgaugeandindustrial.com/samplepa.htm
      then click on 'Excelsior Article'.

      All part of my current blitz on 'getting too-long-delayed' projects
      completed - first metal was cut for 'Excelsior' over a decade ago!
      Delays in completion being entirely my fault, not those of Paul or
      Bernard, I hasten to add! :-)

      Cheers!

      MikeSouth
      Calgary, Alberta, Canada

      +++++++++++++++++++++

      Links:-

      Bernard Snoodyk / 'Oz32':
      OZ32 (at) ozemail.com.au

      'Narrow Gauge & Industrial Rail;way Modelling REVIEW':
      http://www.narrowgaugeandindustrial.com/index.htm
    • kim marsh
      very very cool mike,it needs a few wagons behind to klunk along behind. cheers kim. ... From: Mike South To: FS32NG FS32NG e-Group Sent: Saturday, September
      Message 2 of 8 , Sep 26, 2008
        very very cool mike,it needs a few wagons behind to klunk along behind.
        cheers kim.
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2008 5:00 AM
        Subject: [FS32NGModelrail] 'Excelsior' joins the Crowsnest Tramway (West)

        Model Photos:

        http://ph.groups. yahoo.com/ group/FS32NGMode lrail/photos/ view/642a? b=16&m=f& o=0
        http://ph.groups. yahoo.com/ group/FS32NGMode lrail/photos/ view/642a? b=17&m=f& o=0
        http://ph.groups. yahoo.com/ group/FS32NGMode lrail/photos/ view/642a? b=18&m=f& o=0

        Herewith classic 2ft gauge English industrial 'boomer' steam
        locomotive 'Excelsior', built in 1/32 scale by Paul Berntsen
        originally to 16.5 mm gauge and subsequently regauged to 3/4"/19.05mm
        (America NMRS 'On3'), then painted and weathered by Australian
        professional modeller/painter Bernard Snoodyk of 'Oz32' in Queensland.
        The 'real world' prototype was built by W.G. Bagnall, Stafford,
        England, as an 0-4-0 IST, Works No. 970 of 1888, and later modified
        into an 0-4-2 IST. 'Excelsior' ran originally on Christopher J.
        Naylor's Bryn-Llwarch Hall Estate's 'Kerry Tramway', Montgomeryshire
        (as a 'gentleman's light sporting locomotive') , and was later sold
        after conversion into an 0-4-2 IST to Messrs. James Nuttall and Sons
        of Manchester, contractors for the public carrier Lynton & Barnstaple
        Railway, Devon. She was finally sold to F.J. Barnes Ltd.'s Portland,
        Dorset, dressed stone quarries, where she 'disappeared' in the late
        1930's. This loco has long been a (gentle) obsession of Roy Link,
        Editor/Proprietor of the excellent British magazine 'Narrow Gauge &
        Industrial Railway Modelling REVIEW'. Bernard Snoodyk has also built
        his own delightful 1/35 scale version of this same loco - photos may
        be found at:-

        http://ph.groups. yahoo.com/ group/FS32NGMode lrail/photos/ browse/51d3

        See one of Roy's articles about 'Excelsior' at:

        http://www.narrowga ugeandindustrial .com/samplepa. htm
        then click on 'Excelsior Article'.

        All part of my current blitz on 'getting too-long-delayed' projects
        completed - first metal was cut for 'Excelsior' over a decade ago!
        Delays in completion being entirely my fault, not those of Paul or
        Bernard, I hasten to add! :-)

        Cheers!

        MikeSouth
        Calgary, Alberta, Canada

        ++++++++++++ +++++++++

        Links:-

        Bernard Snoodyk / 'Oz32':
        OZ32 (at) ozemail.com. au

        'Narrow Gauge & Industrial Rail;way Modelling REVIEW':
        http://www.narrowga ugeandindustrial .com/index. htm



        No virus found in this incoming message.
        Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
        Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.7.2/1689 - Release Date: 9/24/2008 6:51 PM
      • Kelvin A. White
        Mike A very interesting addition to your collection, I m intrigued by a couple of items. Why only the wing tanks in Green - why not cab side, bunker, boiler
        Message 3 of 8 , Sep 26, 2008
          Mike

          A very interesting addition to your collection, I'm intrigued by a couple of
          items.

          Why only the wing tanks in Green - why not cab side, bunker, boiler etc?

          The wing tanks appear to be contiguous with the boiler wrapping? was the
          boiler not a separate entity? what happened if you needed to change out the
          boiler or simply remove its lagging - did it mean the wing tanks were
          dismantled at the same time?

          and finally one fine observation - pity its not 3ft gauge <vbg> Do you know
          of any 3ft gauge wing tank locos?

          Best regards

          Kelvin White
          Oxford, England

          Email: kelvin@...




          > Herewith classic 2ft gauge English industrial 'boomer' steam
          > locomotive 'Excelsior', built in 1/32 scale by Paul Berntsen
          > originally to 16.5 mm gauge and subsequently regauged to 3/4"/19.05mm
          > (America NMRS 'On3'), then painted and weathered by Australian
          > professional modeller/painter Bernard Snoodyk of 'Oz32' in Queensland.
          > >
          > Cheers!
          >
          > MikeSouth
          > Calgary, Alberta, Canada
        • Mike South
          Kelvin White asks:- Why only the wing tanks in Green - why not cab side, bunker, boiler etc? The reigning fiction is that the wing tanks were refurbished and
          Message 4 of 8 , Sep 26, 2008
            Kelvin White asks:- 'Why only the wing tanks in Green - why not cab
            side, bunker, boiler etc?'

            The reigning fiction is that the wing tanks were refurbished and then
            repainted afterwards, whilst the rest of the loco did not require
            repainting at this same time - contractors were notably frugal in this
            regard, as this was to them but another piece of miscellaneous
            'outdoor plant', not some fancy prestige main line loco. Besides (and
            it doesn't show that well in the photo) the rest of the loco above the
            footplate IS green, it is just that this is well hidden by 'the patina
            of age and hard work'. For years enthusiasts of the three foot gauge
            Irish 'County Donegal' railway religiously painted the domes of their
            models of Class 5 and 5A 2-6-4Ts black, because that was the colour
            that all the contemporary photos plus a 'preserved' example showed.
            Only when some heretic took a rag of 'Brasso' to a museum preserved
            example was it definitively proven that the dome had in fact always
            been painted the same 'geranium red' as the rest of the loco. The
            pragmatic/lazy/'got better things to do with their lives' County
            Donegal cleaners simply had never bothered to clean the domes for 20
            years plus, the resulting baked-on layers of filth leading to the
            'black domes' fiction.

            The Kevin asks: 'The wing tanks appear to be contiguous with the
            boiler wrapping? was the boiler not a separate entity? what happened
            if you needed to change out the boiler or simply remove its lagging -
            did it mean the wing tanks were dismantled at the same time?'

            This should really be answered by Roy Link, who is THE expert on
            'Excelsior'. My own (probably under-informed) view is that the top
            insides of the wing tanks merely butted up tight against the smokebox-
            cum-boiler wrappers. The front of the tanks are a different matter,
            as drawings and (the few) photos seem to indicate that they are
            contiguous with the smokebox door surround.

            ...'and finally one fine observation - pity its not 3ft gauge. Do you
            know of any 3ft gauge wing tank locos?'

            Yes, Bagnalls certainly built at least one 3ft gauge 0-4-0 wing tank,
            although I don't have the references to hand right now (hospital
            libraries are so poorly equipped these days... :-) 'The book
            'Bagnalls of Stafford' by Oakwood Press (OOP) contained references and
            photos I am fairly certain.

            Cheers,

            Mike South
            Calgary, Alberta, Canada
          • kim marsh
            hi mike i think my last mail has been lost overboard some where off the coast of africa,anyway. cheers mike ,metal and wood,drop side,4 wheeler will be
            Message 5 of 8 , Sep 26, 2008
              hi mike i think my last mail has been lost overboard some where off the coast of africa,anyway.
              cheers  mike ,metal and wood,drop side,4 wheeler will be perfect,keep the photoes coming.
              kim.
              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2008 5:00 AM
              Subject: [FS32NGModelrail] 'Excelsior' joins the Crowsnest Tramway (West)

              Model Photos:

              http://ph.groups. yahoo.com/ group/FS32NGMode lrail/photos/ view/642a? b=16&m=f& o=0
              http://ph.groups. yahoo.com/ group/FS32NGMode lrail/photos/ view/642a? b=17&m=f& o=0
              http://ph.groups. yahoo.com/ group/FS32NGMode lrail/photos/ view/642a? b=18&m=f& o=0

              Herewith classic 2ft gauge English industrial 'boomer' steam
              locomotive 'Excelsior', built in 1/32 scale by Paul Berntsen
              originally to 16.5 mm gauge and subsequently regauged to 3/4"/19.05mm
              (America NMRS 'On3'), then painted and weathered by Australian
              professional modeller/painter Bernard Snoodyk of 'Oz32' in Queensland.
              The 'real world' prototype was built by W.G. Bagnall, Stafford,
              England, as an 0-4-0 IST, Works No. 970 of 1888, and later modified
              into an 0-4-2 IST. 'Excelsior' ran originally on Christopher J.
              Naylor's Bryn-Llwarch Hall Estate's 'Kerry Tramway', Montgomeryshire
              (as a 'gentleman's light sporting locomotive') , and was later sold
              after conversion into an 0-4-2 IST to Messrs. James Nuttall and Sons
              of Manchester, contractors for the public carrier Lynton & Barnstaple
              Railway, Devon. She was finally sold to F.J. Barnes Ltd.'s Portland,
              Dorset, dressed stone quarries, where she 'disappeared' in the late
              1930's. This loco has long been a (gentle) obsession of Roy Link,
              Editor/Proprietor of the excellent British magazine 'Narrow Gauge &
              Industrial Railway Modelling REVIEW'. Bernard Snoodyk has also built
              his own delightful 1/35 scale version of this same loco - photos may
              be found at:-

              http://ph.groups. yahoo.com/ group/FS32NGMode lrail/photos/ browse/51d3

              See one of Roy's articles about 'Excelsior' at:

              http://www.narrowga ugeandindustrial .com/samplepa. htm
              then click on 'Excelsior Article'.

              All part of my current blitz on 'getting too-long-delayed' projects
              completed - first metal was cut for 'Excelsior' over a decade ago!
              Delays in completion being entirely my fault, not those of Paul or
              Bernard, I hasten to add! :-)

              Cheers!

              MikeSouth
              Calgary, Alberta, Canada

              ++++++++++++ +++++++++

              Links:-

              Bernard Snoodyk / 'Oz32':
              OZ32 (at) ozemail.com. au

              'Narrow Gauge & Industrial Rail;way Modelling REVIEW':
              http://www.narrowga ugeandindustrial .com/index. htm



              No virus found in this incoming message.
              Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
              Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.7.2/1689 - Release Date: 9/24/2008 6:51 PM
            • Roy C Link
              Actually, calling Excelsior a wing tank is incorrect, though a common error (which I ve made myself before I knew better). She is really an IST - invert
              Message 6 of 8 , Sep 27, 2008
                Actually, calling 'Excelsior' a wing tank is incorrect, though a common error (which I've made myself before I knew better). She is really an IST - 'invert saddle tank' loco. That is, the front tank is just like a saddle tank but it is mounted at the smokebox end of the boiler, upside down. Because of this, the top boiler/smokebox cladding does not envelop the boiler but merely spans the two upward 'legs' of the IST. The lagging of course, runs all the way round. So that the steam and exhaust pipes in the smokebox are accessible, a lot of IST Bagnalls have a 'cut-out' in the lower front of the IST, covered with a rectangular plate, beneath the smokebox door.

                A new  history of W G Bagnall has just been published see: http://bagnallsofstafford.co.uk/

                Roy C Link


                www.narrowgaugeandindustrial.com


                On 26 Sep 2008, at 22:41, Mike South wrote:

                Kelvin White asks:- 'Why only the wing tanks in Green - why not cab 
                side, bunker, boiler etc?'

                The reigning fiction is that the wing tanks were refurbished and then 
                repainted afterwards, whilst the rest of the loco did not require 
                repainting at this same time - contractors were notably frugal in this 
                regard, as this was to them but another piece of miscellaneous 
                'outdoor plant', not some fancy prestige main line loco. Besides (and 
                it doesn't show that well in the photo) the rest of the loco above the 
                footplate IS green, it is just that this is well hidden by 'the patina 
                of age and hard work'. For years enthusiasts of the three foot gauge 
                Irish 'County Donegal' railway religiously painted the domes of their 
                models of Class 5 and 5A 2-6-4Ts black, because that was the colour 
                that all the contemporary photos plus a 'preserved' example showed. 
                Only when some heretic took a rag of 'Brasso' to a museum preserved 
                example was it definitively proven that the dome had in fact always 
                been painted the same 'geranium red' as the rest of the loco. The 
                pragmatic/lazy/ 'got better things to do with their lives' County 
                Donegal cleaners simply had never bothered to clean the domes for 20 
                years plus, the resulting baked-on layers of filth leading to the 
                'black domes' fiction.

                The Kevin asks: 'The wing tanks appear to be contiguous with the 
                boiler wrapping? was the boiler not a separate entity? what happened 
                if you needed to change out the boiler or simply remove its lagging - 
                did it mean the wing tanks were dismantled at the same time?'

                This should really be answered by Roy Link, who is THE expert on 
                'Excelsior'. My own (probably under-informed) view is that the top 
                insides of the wing tanks merely butted up tight against the smokebox- 
                cum-boiler wrappers. The front of the tanks are a different matter, 
                as drawings and (the few) photos seem to indicate that they are 
                contiguous with the smokebox door surround.

                ...'and finally one fine observation - pity its not 3ft gauge. Do you 
                know of any 3ft gauge wing tank locos?'

                Yes, Bagnalls certainly built at least one 3ft gauge 0-4-0 wing tank, 
                although I don't have the references to hand right now (hospital 
                libraries are so poorly equipped these days... :-) 'The book 
                'Bagnalls of Stafford' by Oakwood Press (OOP) contained references and 
                photos I am fairly certain.

                Cheers,

                Mike South
                Calgary, Alberta, Canada


              • Evan & Correne James
                My guess is that the tanks are stand alone fittings bolted to the running boards. Any butting up to the smokebox would be achieved through sheet metal work,
                Message 7 of 8 , Sep 27, 2008
                  My guess is that the tanks are stand alone fittings bolted to the
                  running boards. Any butting up to the smokebox would be achieved
                  through sheet metal work, probably to the smokebox front. Lifting the
                  tanks would be easy - simply unbolt the equalising pipe and the
                  injector piping, unbolt the tanks, and lift them out of the way - a
                  small hand crane would be all that would be needed to do that job.
                  Steam locos, especially early ones, were very simple pieces of
                  machinery - most people who had a Meccano set as a kid could pull one
                  to bits, provided they had the right tools to undo all the bits.

                  evan


                  On Sep 27, 2008, at 9:41 AM, Mike South wrote:
                  >
                  > The Kevin asks: 'The wing tanks appear to be contiguous with the
                  > boiler wrapping? was the boiler not a separate entity? what happened
                  > if you needed to change out the boiler or simply remove its lagging -
                  > did it mean the wing tanks were dismantled at the same time?'
                  >
                  >
                  > Cheers,
                  >
                  > Mike South
                  > Calgary, Alberta, Canada
                  >
                  >
                • Evan & Correne James
                  Ignore the bit I wrote about Excelsior having lift off tanks - the rest is pretty much right when dealing with side tanked locos though evan
                  Message 8 of 8 , Sep 27, 2008
                    Ignore the bit I wrote about Excelsior having lift off tanks - the rest
                    is pretty much right when dealing with side tanked locos though

                    evan


                    On Sep 27, 2008, at 8:54 PM, Roy C Link wrote:

                    > Actually, calling 'Excelsior' a wing tank is incorrect, though a
                    > common error (which I've made myself before I knew better). She is
                    > really an IST - 'invert saddle tank' loco. That is, the front tank is
                    > just like a saddle tank but it is mounted at the smokebox end of the
                    > boiler, upside down. Because of this, the top boiler/smokebox cladding
                    > does not envelop the boiler but merely spans the two upward 'legs' of
                    > the IST. The lagging of course, runs all the way round. So that the
                    > steam and exhaust pipes in the smokebox are accessible, a lot of IST
                    > Bagnalls have a 'cut-out' in the lower front of the IST, covered with
                    > a rectangular plate, beneath the smokebox door.
                    >
                    > A new  history of W G Bagnall has just been published
                    > see: http://bagnallsofstafford.co.uk/
                    >
                    >
                    > Roy C Link
                    >
                  Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.