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More Laser cut photos

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  • Evan & Correne James
    It was aimed more at Paul in New Zealand. Out here, anyone can have a cottage industry type of business, which is just as well because there would be no
    Message 1 of 15 , Jun 5, 2008
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      It was aimed more at Paul in New Zealand. Out here, anyone can have a
      cottage industry type of business, which is just as well because there
      would be no modelling of the two major scales for NZR modelling, (9mm
      to the foot and 3/16 to the foot) without them.
      By the way Daniel - there is nothing wrong with your English.

      evan


      On Jul 5, 2008, at 6:43 PM, daniel caso wrote:

      > Evan:
      >        It is not clear to me -sorry, again my poor English- if you are
      > encouraging me to keep it as a friendly modeller activity or to start
      > a business. If you mean the last, I wish it would be that simple!!!
      > Here in Holland to sell things you need an official registration as
      > business, to estimate in advance how much you think you are going to
      > earn each year; to count 36% taxes in your prices; to ad 19% BTW
      > (something as VAT) and then arrange the packings and sending and
      > adding the mailing costs that of course will differ from sending to
      > sending. Once you have done all that you need a careful administration
      > (on paper and computer) for the government. Further you need to keep a
      > careful agenda for orders from clients but also for your materials,
      > printed instructions, packing materials, etc.
      > And, believe me, that would be just the start of it. And all this not
      > to mention that if you are exporting probably -the rules here are very
      > specific for each thing- you need a more complicated legal
      > construction.
      > Holland is a marvellous country, but as long as you understand that it
      > is  5% ground,10% people,35% water and 50% papers and rules.
      >    Anyway if someone wants to go commercial and use my services as
      > designer I would consider it,
      >    I did consider the possibility, but honestly, what happened with
      > Tom York was a hard lesson for me. He deserves quite another situation
      > than being forced to a full time job in a grocery.
      >    The risk would be of sacrificing the joy of my modelling and,
      > honestly, I couldn't afford that.
      >
      >           Daniel
      >  
      >
      > --- On Fri, 7/4/08, Evan James <bce@...> wrote:
      >> From: Evan James <bce@...>
      >> Subject: [FS32NGModelrail] Re: More Laser cut photos
      >> To: FS32NGModelrail@yahoogroups.com
      >> Date: Friday, July 4, 2008, 1:23 PM
      >>
      >>
      >> If you are able to get the kits cut on as as needed basis, then all
      >> you will need is the digital files which only cost the value you put
      >> on your time and tie nothing up in the way of product inventory.
      >>
      >> evan
      >>
      >> --- In FS32NGModelrail@ yahoogroups. com, Woodie Greene
      >> <mogollonry@ ...> wrote:
      >> >
      >> > Daniel-if you want to sell kits, I say "go for it"...however, doing
      >> so may be bad for your personal hobby. I did not manufacture kits,
      >> but I did have a profitable custom building business many years ago
      >> and (maybe it was just me) the pursuit of money for my modeling led
      >> me to about a 15 year burn out. No trains, I sold everything I had
      >> and got totally out of the hobby. Whatever advances went on during
      >> those years didn't interest me, I just didn't have "the feeling" that
      >> I used to. I have known a couple of other modelers who got into the
      >> model railroad business and lost their desire to mess with model
      >> trains. Now, a good friend of mine builds and sells (for a great deal
      >> of money) 1:20.3 rolling stock...and he has virtually no time to
      >> build anything else, he has some On30 stuff, but no time for what he
      >> wants to do. Doing something for the love of it is one thing, but
      >> doing something for money tends to destroy the "magic". This is of
      >> course my opinion, whatever you do, I wish
      >> > you the best and as they say in Hollywood-"break a leg!"
      >> > Woodie
      >> >
      >> > Paul Woods <paulandclaire@ ...> wrote:
      >> > Daniel
      >> >
      >> > All my local laser cutting companies are involved in making
      >> > advertising signs or engraving things like trophies, or both. You
      >> > could even try contacting an electrical installation firm to ask
      >> > where they have their warning signs and labels made, (The stiff
      >> > plastic ones you see rivetted to big switchboards) quite often they
      >> > are laser-cut these days, so they might be able to point the way.
      >> >
      >> > Making a living selling any type of kit is the challenge, it is not
      >> > just restricted to laser cut types ;-)
      >> >
      >> > Regards
      >> > Paul
      >> >
      >>
      >
      >
      >
    • Henrik Laurell
      http://www.eisenbahn-modulbau.de/Shop/index.php?act=viewCat&catId=8 above link gives a hint on what the german kits cost... /Henrik
      Message 2 of 15 , Jul 2, 2008
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        http://www.eisenbahn-modulbau.de/Shop/index.php?act=viewCat&catId=8

        above link gives a hint on what the german kits cost...

        /Henrik



        Daniel Osvaldo Caso wrote:
        >
        > Hi all:
        > I've just posted a few new pictures of things I've designed and
        > came from Argentina with the coach and the rest. They are also made
        > from 1mm thick MDF. No one of the objects is finished: they all need
        > some soft sanding, paint and a proper weathering. But I wanted to let
        > you see the reaction of de material to paint. It is pretty ugly but a
        > very soft sanding with super fine sandpaper will make wonders. You'll
        > see that soon. Of course it is all 1:32 and -because all this was
        > just a first try- I made the drawings without following any real
        > object but just from my imagination. Now that I know what I can expect
        > from laser cutting I will re-design them all following real objects.
        >
        > Daniel
        >
        >
      • Stephen Auslender
        These prices are not too high when you compare them with American prototype cars in that large scale. Thank you for showing me this site. Stephen ... made ...
        Message 3 of 15 , Jul 2, 2008
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          These prices are not too high when you compare them with American
          prototype cars in that large scale. Thank you for showing me this
          site.
          Stephen
          --- In FS32NGModelrail@yahoogroups.com, Henrik Laurell <henrik@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > http://www.eisenbahn-modulbau.de/Shop/index.php?act=viewCat&catId=8
          >
          > above link gives a hint on what the german kits cost...
          >
          > /Henrik
          >
          >
          >
          > Daniel Osvaldo Caso wrote:
          > >
          > > Hi all:
          > > I've just posted a few new pictures of things I've designed and
          > > came from Argentina with the coach and the rest. They are also
          made
          > > from 1mm thick MDF. No one of the objects is finished: they all
          need
          > > some soft sanding, paint and a proper weathering. But I wanted
          to let
          > > you see the reaction of de material to paint. It is pretty ugly
          but a
          > > very soft sanding with super fine sandpaper will make wonders.
          You'll
          > > see that soon. Of course it is all 1:32 and -because all this was
          > > just a first try- I made the drawings without following any real
          > > object but just from my imagination. Now that I know what I can
          expect
          > > from laser cutting I will re-design them all following real
          objects.
          > >
          > > Daniel
          > >
          > >
          >
        • daniel caso
          Hello:         Thank you Henrik for posting it.        Sorry, I don t understand Geman so an someone give me an idea of what materials are used
          Message 4 of 15 , Jul 2, 2008
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            Hello:
                    Thank you Henrik for posting it.
                   Sorry, I don't understand Geman so an someone give me an idea of what materials are used and how complete are the kits?
                   Also I would like to know if they are offering laser cutting service too.
                   Thank you

                                        Daniel

            --- On Wed, 7/2/08, Stephen Auslender <auslend@...> wrote:
            From: Stephen Auslender <auslend@...>
            Subject: [FS32NGModelrail] Re: More Laser cut photos
            To: FS32NGModelrail@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Wednesday, July 2, 2008, 7:26 PM

            These prices are not too high when you compare them with American
            prototype cars in that large scale. Thank you for showing me this
            site.
            Stephen
            --- In FS32NGModelrail@ yahoogroups. com, Henrik Laurell <henrik@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > http://www.eisenbah n-modulbau. de/Shop/index. php?act=viewCat& catId=8
            >
            > above link gives a hint on what the german kits cost...
            >
            > /Henrik
            >
            >
            >
            > Daniel Osvaldo Caso wrote:
            > >
            > > Hi all:
            > > I've just posted a few new pictures of things I've designed and
            > > came from Argentina with the coach and the rest. They are also
            made
            > > from 1mm thick MDF. No one of the objects is finished: they all
            need
            > > some soft sanding, paint and a proper weathering. But I wanted
            to let
            > > you see the reaction of de material to paint. It is pretty ugly
            but a
            > > very soft sanding with super fine sandpaper will make wonders.
            You'll
            > > see that soon. Of course it is all 1:32 and -because all this was
            > > just a first try- I made the drawings without following any real
            > > object but just from my imagination. Now that I know what I can
            expect
            > > from laser cutting I will re-design them all following real
            objects.
            > >
            > > Daniel
            > >
            > >
            >


          • Henrik Laurell
            I was merely trying to show what this costs.. If you have the skills and patience as Daniel has and a good source who has the tools, you get away with a lot
            Message 5 of 15 , Jul 2, 2008
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              I was merely trying to show what this costs.. If you have the skills and
              patience as Daniel has and a good source who has the tools, you get away
              with a lot less... But when you want to make a business of it, you have
              to bill it like this. I admire all the kit makers, it must be passion
              who drives them, cause it can't be money...

              The big issue is that to many compares theses prices with Fleishmann,
              Märkling, LGB or other mainstream makers. But they make thousands of the
              same article, there is no way a small kit maker can compete with that.
              As always it is the preparation and good tools to make molds etc, which
              make the difference. And... of course there is alot more HO / G scale
              buyers, than in our little cute scale.. But, if everyone was building in
              our scale, it wouldn't be as much fun... or :)

              /Henrik



              Stephen Auslender wrote:
              >
              > These prices are not too high when you compare them with American
              > prototype cars in that large scale. Thank you for showing me this
              > site.
              > Stephen
              > --- In FS32NGModelrail@yahoogroups.com
              > <mailto:FS32NGModelrail%40yahoogroups.com>, Henrik Laurell <henrik@...>
              > wrote:
              > >
              > > http://www.eisenbahn-modulbau.de/Shop/index.php?act=viewCat&catId=8
              > <http://www.eisenbahn-modulbau.de/Shop/index.php?act=viewCat&catId=8>
              > >
              > > above link gives a hint on what the german kits cost...
              > >
              > > /Henrik
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Daniel Osvaldo Caso wrote:
              > > >
              > > > Hi all:
              > > > I've just posted a few new pictures of things I've designed and
              > > > came from Argentina with the coach and the rest. They are also
              > made
              > > > from 1mm thick MDF. No one of the objects is finished: they all
              > need
              > > > some soft sanding, paint and a proper weathering. But I wanted
              > to let
              > > > you see the reaction of de material to paint. It is pretty ugly
              > but a
              > > > very soft sanding with super fine sandpaper will make wonders.
              > You'll
              > > > see that soon. Of course it is all 1:32 and -because all this was
              > > > just a first try- I made the drawings without following any real
              > > > object but just from my imagination. Now that I know what I can
              > expect
              > > > from laser cutting I will re-design them all following real
              > objects.
              > > >
              > > > Daniel
              > > >
              > > >
              > >
              >
              >
            • daniel caso
              Henrik:           Well, coming to that point I must say that in my opinion there is no real chance of making a living from producing kits. Let stay in
              Message 6 of 15 , Jul 2, 2008
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                Henrik:
                          Well, coming to that point I must say that in my opinion there is no real chance of making a living from producing kits. Let stay in 1:32.  I really admire people als Roger Chivers, Roy C Link and others that managed  to do so. I wouldn't try it. Among other I don't have the money to start a serious business.My idea point more to something as developing things for myself and sharing them for the costs.That way I'll keep my joy at doing it. I think that combining passion with business is just for a few privileged.
                It would be great if I succeed at making and sell say 30 coaches and keep 5 for myself with no costs. And the same for the rest. Otherwise it would be clever to produce things in other scales as H0 with a broad market. But then I wouldn't enjoy it as my hobby. I know other people are working that way, for instance in Australia.
                Now what I need is finding someone able to laser cut my drawings here in Holland. Argentina is O.K.  but the posting costs and the sending risks are too high and would double the prices.Also i would like to find a better material than MDF. It works good for the coaches and windows, but for tiny objects I am not sure.

                                            Daniel
                         

                --- On Wed, 7/2/08, Henrik Laurell <henrik@...> wrote:
                From: Henrik Laurell <henrik@...>
                Subject: Re: [FS32NGModelrail] Re: More Laser cut photos
                To: FS32NGModelrail@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Wednesday, July 2, 2008, 10:32 PM

                I was merely trying to show what this costs.. If you have the skills and
                patience as Daniel has and a good source who has the tools, you get away
                with a lot less... But when you want to make a business of it, you have
                to bill it like this. I admire all the kit makers, it must be passion
                who drives them, cause it can't be money...

                The big issue is that to many compares theses prices with Fleishmann,
                Märkling, LGB or other mainstream makers. But they make thousands of the
                same article, there is no way a small kit maker can compete with that.
                As always it is the preparation and good tools to make molds etc, which
                make the difference. And... of course there is alot more HO / G scale
                buyers, than in our little cute scale.. But, if everyone was building in
                our scale, it wouldn't be as much fun... or :)

                /Henrik

                Stephen Auslender wrote:
                >
                > These prices are not too high when you compare them with American
                > prototype cars in that large scale. Thank you for showing me this
                > site.
                > Stephen
                > --- In FS32NGModelrail@ yahoogroups. com
                > <mailto:FS32NGModel rail%40yahoogrou ps.com>, Henrik Laurell <henrik@...>
                > wrote:
                > >
                > > http://www.eisenbah n-modulbau. de/Shop/index. php?act=viewCat& catId=8
                > <http://www.eisenbah n-modulbau. de/Shop/index. php?act=viewCat& catId=8>
                > >
                > > above link gives a hint on what the german kits cost...
                > >
                > > /Henrik
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Daniel Osvaldo Caso wrote:
                > > >
                > > > Hi all:
                > > > I've just posted a few new pictures of things I've designed and
                > > > came from Argentina with the coach and the rest. They are also
                > made
                > > > from 1mm thick MDF. No one of the objects is finished: they all
                > need
                > > > some soft sanding, paint and a proper weathering. But I wanted
                > to let
                > > > you see the reaction of de material to paint. It is pretty ugly
                > but a
                > > > very soft sanding with super fine sandpaper will make wonders.
                > You'll
                > > > see that soon. Of course it is all 1:32 and -because all this was
                > > > just a first try- I made the drawings without following any real
                > > > object but just from my imagination. Now that I know what I can
                > expect
                > > > from laser cutting I will re-design them all following real
                > objects.
                > > >
                > > > Daniel
                > > >
                > > >
                > >
                >
                >


              • Paul Woods
                Daniel All my local laser cutting companies are involved in making advertising signs or engraving things like trophies, or both. You could even try contacting
                Message 7 of 15 , Jul 2, 2008
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                  Daniel

                  All my local laser cutting companies are involved in making
                  advertising signs or engraving things like trophies, or both. You
                  could even try contacting an electrical installation firm to ask
                  where they have their warning signs and labels made, (The stiff
                  plastic ones you see rivetted to big switchboards) quite often they
                  are laser-cut these days, so they might be able to point the way.

                  Making a living selling any type of kit is the challenge, it is not
                  just restricted to laser cut types ;-)

                  Regards
                  Paul

                  --- In FS32NGModelrail@yahoogroups.com, daniel caso <d.caso@...>
                  wrote:
                  > Now what I need is finding someone able to laser cut my drawings
                  here in Holland. Argentina is O.K.  but the posting costs and the
                  sending risks are too high and would double the prices.Also i would
                  like to find a better material than MDF. It works good for the
                  coaches and windows, but for tiny objects I am not sure.
                  >
                  >                             Daniel
                  >          
                • Woodie Greene
                  Daniel-if you want to sell kits, I say go for it ...however, doing so may be bad for your personal hobby. I did not manufacture kits, but I did have a
                  Message 8 of 15 , Jul 2, 2008
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                    Daniel-if you want to sell kits, I say "go for it"...however, doing so may be bad for your personal hobby. I did not manufacture kits, but I did have a profitable custom building business many years ago and (maybe it was just me) the pursuit of money for my modeling led me to about a 15 year burn out. No trains, I sold everything I had and got totally out of the hobby. Whatever advances went on during those years didn't interest me, I just didn't have "the feeling" that I used to. I have known a couple of other modelers who got into the model railroad business and lost their desire to mess with model trains. Now, a good friend of mine builds and sells (for a great deal of money) 1:20.3 rolling stock...and he has virtually no time to build anything else, he has some On30 stuff, but no time for what he wants to do. Doing something for the love of it is one thing, but doing something for money tends to destroy the "magic". This is of course my opinion, whatever you do, I wish you the best and as they say in Hollywood-"break a leg!"
                               Woodie 

                    Paul Woods <paulandclaire@...> wrote:
                    Daniel

                    All my local laser cutting companies are involved in making
                    advertising signs or engraving things like trophies, or both. You
                    could even try contacting an electrical installation firm to ask
                    where they have their warning signs and labels made, (The stiff
                    plastic ones you see rivetted to big switchboards) quite often they
                    are laser-cut these days, so they might be able to point the way.

                    Making a living selling any type of kit is the challenge, it is not
                    just restricted to laser cut types ;-)

                    Regards
                    Paul

                    --- In FS32NGModelrail@ yahoogroups. com, daniel caso <d.caso@...>
                    wrote:
                    > Now what I need is finding someone able to laser cut my drawings
                    here in Holland. Argentina is O.K.  but the posting costs and the
                    sending risks are too high and would double the prices.Also i would
                    like to find a better material than MDF. It works good for the
                    coaches and windows, but for tiny objects I am not sure.
                    >
                    >                             Daniel
                    >          


                  • daniel caso
                    Paul:        Thank you for the tip. I will look for those companies here.                Daniel ... From: Paul Woods
                    Message 9 of 15 , Jul 2, 2008
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                      Paul:
                             Thank you for the tip. I will look for those companies here.
                                     Daniel

                      --- On Thu, 7/3/08, Paul Woods <paulandclaire@...> wrote:
                      From: Paul Woods <paulandclaire@...>
                      Subject: [FS32NGModelrail] Re: More Laser cut photos
                      To: FS32NGModelrail@yahoogroups.com
                      Date: Thursday, July 3, 2008, 2:54 AM

                      Daniel

                      All my local laser cutting companies are involved in making
                      advertising signs or engraving things like trophies, or both. You
                      could even try contacting an electrical installation firm to ask
                      where they have their warning signs and labels made, (The stiff
                      plastic ones you see rivetted to big switchboards) quite often they
                      are laser-cut these days, so they might be able to point the way.

                      Making a living selling any type of kit is the challenge, it is not
                      just restricted to laser cut types ;-)

                      Regards
                      Paul

                      --- In FS32NGModelrail@ yahoogroups. com, daniel caso <d.caso@...>
                      wrote:
                      > Now what I need is finding someone able to laser cut my drawings
                      here in Holland. Argentina is O.K. but the posting costs and the
                      sending risks are too high and would double the prices.Also i would
                      like to find a better material than MDF. It works good for the
                      coaches and windows, but for tiny objects I am not sure.
                      >
                      > Daniel
                      >


                    • daniel caso
                      Wooddie:               Exactly!!! That is my point too and that is why I want to follow my own desires instead of trying to produce what may look
                      Message 10 of 15 , Jul 2, 2008
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                        Wooddie:
                                      Exactly!!! That is my point too and that is why I want to follow my own desires instead of trying to produce what may look commercially attractive. I had a similar experience with paintings. After five years of Art school I was painting and enjoying it a lot until I decided to start giving painting lessons to earn my money. After two years I was enjoying giving lessons a lot, learning lots from my students and earning very little money... but I didn't paint any more because after so many hours of lessons I had enough of it. So the pleasure of painting disappeared . I've been also making maquettes commercially for many years and the same happened. So twice is enough. That is why I intend to do this just for my hobby, as a way of making it affordable for myself.
                              Also, doing it commercially means being constantly confronted with the need of doing concessions related to production/sales matters. When I designed the coach and the other things I was just trying to please myself. That is also the way I am designing the other things. So, for example, I thought I would make the frames and the roof for the coaches by hand. That is easy work for all us and there is no sense at "producing"the pieces. But when I started here to think at selling suddenly I felt forced to include all those for me unneeded parts. That would make the models commercially more acceptable but would also increase the prices when personally I don't need that. So I am reflecting about all those things. Also, seeing the huge amount os possibilities that methods as laser cutting offers, I am thinking that probably the best way will be to just share the CAD drawings for the costs of my own pieces and the posting.  So everybody would be able to let it cut locally and in the quantities he wants. Sending the CAD drawings would cost nothing since it can be done by e-mail. Of course it wouldn't be a problem to let it cut here if someone wants me to. At least in this first experience with Argentina, the company that made the cuttings say that there is no price difference between cutting one plate of two hundred because it involves minimal work to set the machine. I'll see if here is the same. May be doing so can also stimulate many of us to get in contact with the method and that means that in the future other  fellows will provide us with other designs too.
                                The last thing I would sacrifice is my hobby. It has  many functions in my life and is a source not just of pleasure but also of learning, experimenting and last but not least of
                        peace.Something of an activity that brings together the kid I was, the man I am and the old man I'm becoming. Going commercially would mean among other things, being forced to look for taxes, agenda, stocks, and many more. packings, instruction folders, etc. That would consume most of my time. So I'll keep it very simple.

                                        Daniel

                        --- On Thu, 7/3/08, Woodie Greene <mogollonry@...> wrote:
                        From: Woodie Greene <mogollonry@...>
                        Subject: Re: [FS32NGModelrail] Re: More Laser cut photos
                        To: FS32NGModelrail@yahoogroups.com
                        Date: Thursday, July 3, 2008, 3:20 AM

                        Daniel-if you want to sell kits, I say "go for it"...however, doing so may be bad for your personal hobby. I did not manufacture kits, but I did have a profitable custom building business many years ago and (maybe it was just me) the pursuit of money for my modeling led me to about a 15 year burn out. No trains, I sold everything I had and got totally out of the hobby. Whatever advances went on during those years didn't interest me, I just didn't have "the feeling" that I used to. I have known a couple of other modelers who got into the model railroad business and lost their desire to mess with model trains. Now, a good friend of mine builds and sells (for a great deal of money) 1:20.3 rolling stock...and he has virtually no time to build anything else, he has some On30 stuff, but no time for what he wants to do. Doing something for the love of it is one thing, but doing something for money tends to destroy the "magic". This is of course my opinion, whatever you do, I wish you the best and as they say in Hollywood-"break a leg!"
                                   Woodie 

                        Paul Woods <paulandclaire@ woodsworks. co.nz> wrote:
                        Daniel

                        All my local laser cutting companies are involved in making
                        advertising signs or engraving things like trophies, or both. You
                        could even try contacting an electrical installation firm to ask
                        where they have their warning signs and labels made, (The stiff
                        plastic ones you see rivetted to big switchboards) quite often they
                        are laser-cut these days, so they might be able to point the way.

                        Making a living selling any type of kit is the challenge, it is not
                        just restricted to laser cut types ;-)

                        Regards
                        Paul

                        --- In FS32NGModelrail@ yahoogroups. com, daniel caso <d.caso@...>
                        wrote:
                        > Now what I need is finding someone able to laser cut my drawings
                        here in Holland. Argentina is O.K.  but the posting costs and the
                        sending risks are too high and would double the prices.Also i would
                        like to find a better material than MDF. It works good for the
                        coaches and windows, but for tiny objects I am not sure.
                        >
                        >                             Daniel
                        >          



                      • Evan James
                        If you are able to get the kits cut on as as needed basis, then all you will need is the digital files which only cost the value you put on your time and tie
                        Message 11 of 15 , Jul 4, 2008
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                          If you are able to get the kits cut on as as needed basis, then all
                          you will need is the digital files which only cost the value you put
                          on your time and tie nothing up in the way of product inventory.

                          evan


                          --- In FS32NGModelrail@yahoogroups.com, Woodie Greene
                          <mogollonry@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Daniel-if you want to sell kits, I say "go for it"...however, doing
                          so may be bad for your personal hobby. I did not manufacture kits,
                          but I did have a profitable custom building business many years ago
                          and (maybe it was just me) the pursuit of money for my modeling led
                          me to about a 15 year burn out. No trains, I sold everything I had
                          and got totally out of the hobby. Whatever advances went on during
                          those years didn't interest me, I just didn't have "the feeling" that
                          I used to. I have known a couple of other modelers who got into the
                          model railroad business and lost their desire to mess with model
                          trains. Now, a good friend of mine builds and sells (for a great deal
                          of money) 1:20.3 rolling stock...and he has virtually no time to
                          build anything else, he has some On30 stuff, but no time for what he
                          wants to do. Doing something for the love of it is one thing, but
                          doing something for money tends to destroy the "magic". This is of
                          course my opinion, whatever you do, I wish
                          > you the best and as they say in Hollywood-"break a leg!"
                          > Woodie
                          >
                          > Paul Woods <paulandclaire@...> wrote:
                          > Daniel
                          >
                          > All my local laser cutting companies are involved in making
                          > advertising signs or engraving things like trophies, or both. You
                          > could even try contacting an electrical installation firm to ask
                          > where they have their warning signs and labels made, (The stiff
                          > plastic ones you see rivetted to big switchboards) quite often they
                          > are laser-cut these days, so they might be able to point the way.
                          >
                          > Making a living selling any type of kit is the challenge, it is not
                          > just restricted to laser cut types ;-)
                          >
                          > Regards
                          > Paul
                          >
                        • daniel caso
                          Evan:        It is not clear to me -sorry, again my poor English- if you are encouraging me to keep it as a friendly modeller activity or to start a
                          Message 12 of 15 , Jul 4, 2008
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Evan:
                                   It is not clear to me -sorry, again my poor English- if you are encouraging me to keep it as a friendly modeller activity or to start a business. If you mean the last, I wish it would be that simple!!! Here in Holland to sell things you need an official registration as business, to estimate in advance how much you think you are going to earn each year; to count 36% taxes in your prices; to ad 19% BTW (something as VAT) and then arrange the packings and sending and adding the mailing costs that of course will differ from sending to sending. Once you have done all that you need a careful administration (on paper and computer) for the government. Further you need to keep a careful agenda for orders from clients but also for your materials, printed instructions, packing materials, etc.
                            And, believe me, that would be just the start of it. And all this not to mention that if you are exporting probably -the rules here are very specific for each thing- you need a more complicated legal construction.
                            Holland is a marvellous country, but as long as you understand that it is  5% ground,10% people,35% water and 50% papers and rules.
                               Anyway if someone wants to go commercial and use my services as designer I would consider it,
                               I did consider the possibility, but honestly, what happened with Tom York was a hard lesson for me. He deserves quite another situation than being forced to a full time job in a grocery.
                               The risk would be of sacrificing the joy of my modelling and, honestly, I couldn't afford that.

                                      Daniel
                             

                            --- On Fri, 7/4/08, Evan James <bce@...> wrote:
                            From: Evan James <bce@...>
                            Subject: [FS32NGModelrail] Re: More Laser cut photos
                            To: FS32NGModelrail@yahoogroups.com
                            Date: Friday, July 4, 2008, 1:23 PM

                            If you are able to get the kits cut on as as needed basis, then all
                            you will need is the digital files which only cost the value you put
                            on your time and tie nothing up in the way of product inventory.

                            evan

                            --- In FS32NGModelrail@ yahoogroups. com, Woodie Greene
                            <mogollonry@ ...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Daniel-if you want to sell kits, I say "go for it"...however, doing
                            so may be bad for your personal hobby. I did not manufacture kits,
                            but I did have a profitable custom building business many years ago
                            and (maybe it was just me) the pursuit of money for my modeling led
                            me to about a 15 year burn out. No trains, I sold everything I had
                            and got totally out of the hobby. Whatever advances went on during
                            those years didn't interest me, I just didn't have "the feeling" that
                            I used to. I have known a couple of other modelers who got into the
                            model railroad business and lost their desire to mess with model
                            trains. Now, a good friend of mine builds and sells (for a great deal
                            of money) 1:20.3 rolling stock...and he has virtually no time to
                            build anything else, he has some On30 stuff, but no time for what he
                            wants to do. Doing something for the love of it is one thing, but
                            doing something for money tends to destroy the "magic". This is of
                            course my opinion, whatever you do, I wish
                            > you the best and as they say in Hollywood-"break a leg!"
                            > Woodie
                            >
                            > Paul Woods <paulandclaire@ ...> wrote:
                            > Daniel
                            >
                            > All my local laser cutting companies are involved in making
                            > advertising signs or engraving things like trophies, or both. You
                            > could even try contacting an electrical installation firm to ask
                            > where they have their warning signs and labels made, (The stiff
                            > plastic ones you see rivetted to big switchboards) quite often they
                            > are laser-cut these days, so they might be able to point the way.
                            >
                            > Making a living selling any type of kit is the challenge, it is not
                            > just restricted to laser cut types ;-)
                            >
                            > Regards
                            > Paul
                            >


                          • daniel caso
                            Evan:         Sorry.My mistake.                    Daniel ... From: Evan & Correne James Subject: [FS32NGModelrail]
                            Message 13 of 15 , Jul 5, 2008
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Evan:
                                      Sorry.My mistake.

                                                 Daniel

                              --- On Thu, 6/5/08, Evan & Correne James <bce@...> wrote:
                              From: Evan & Correne James <bce@...>
                              Subject: [FS32NGModelrail] More Laser cut photos
                              To: FS32NGModelrail@yahoogroups.com
                              Date: Thursday, June 5, 2008, 12:52 PM

                              It was aimed more at Paul in New Zealand. Out here, anyone can have a 
                              cottage industry type of business, which is just as well because there
                              would be no modelling of the two major scales for NZR modelling, (9mm
                              to the foot and 3/16 to the foot) without them.
                              By the way Daniel - there is nothing wrong with your English.

                              evan


                              On Jul 5, 2008, at 6:43 PM, daniel caso wrote:

                              > Evan:
                              > It is not clear to me -sorry, again my poor English- if you
                              are
                              > encouraging me to keep it as a friendly modeller activity or to start
                              > a business. If you mean the last, I wish it would be that simple!!!
                              > Here in Holland to sell things you need an official registration as
                              > business, to estimate in advance how much you think you are going to
                              > earn each year; to count 36% taxes in your prices; to ad 19% BTW
                              > (something as VAT) and then arrange the packings and sending and
                              > adding the mailing costs that of course will differ from sending to
                              > sending. Once you have done all that you need a careful administration
                              > (on paper and computer) for the government. Further you need to keep a
                              > careful agenda for orders from clients but also for your materials,
                              > printed instructions, packing materials, etc.
                              > And, believe me, that would be just the start of it. And all this not
                              > to mention that if you are exporting probably -the rules here are very
                              > specific for each thing- you need a more complicated legal
                              > construction.
                              > Holland is a marvellous country, but as long as you understand that it
                              > is 5% ground,10% people,35% water and 50% papers and rules.
                              > Anyway if someone wants to go commercial and use my services as
                              > designer I would consider it,
                              > I did consider the possibility, but honestly, what happened with
                              > Tom York was a hard lesson for me. He deserves quite another situation
                              > than being forced to a full time job in a grocery.
                              > The risk would be of sacrificing the joy of my modelling and,
                              > honestly, I couldn't afford that.
                              >
                              > Daniel
                              >
                              >
                              > --- On Fri, 7/4/08, Evan James <bce@...> wrote:
                              >> From: Evan James <bce@...>
                              >> Subject: [FS32NGModelrail] Re: More Laser cut photos
                              >> To: FS32NGModelrail@yahoogroups.com
                              >> Date: Friday, July 4, 2008, 1:23 PM
                              >>
                              >>
                              >> If you are able to get the kits cut on as as needed basis, then all
                              >> you will need is the digital files which only cost the value you put
                              >> on your time and tie nothing up in the way of product inventory.
                              >>
                              >> evan
                              >>
                              >> --- In FS32NGModelrail@ yahoogroups. com, Woodie Greene
                              >> <mogollonry@ ...> wrote:
                              >> >
                              >> > Daniel-if you want to sell kits, I say "go for
                              it"...however, doing
                              >> so may be bad for your personal hobby. I did not manufacture kits,
                              >> but I did have a profitable custom building business many years ago
                              >> and (maybe it was just me) the pursuit of money for my modeling led
                              >> me to about a 15 year burn out. No trains, I sold everything I had
                              >> and got totally out of the hobby. Whatever advances went on during
                              >> those years didn't interest me, I just didn't have "the
                              feeling" that
                              >> I used to. I have known a couple of other modelers who got into the
                              >> model railroad business and lost their desire to mess with model
                              >> trains. Now, a good friend of mine builds and sells (for a great deal
                              >> of money) 1:20.3 rolling stock...and he has virtually no time to
                              >> build anything else, he has some On30 stuff, but no time for what he
                              >> wants to do. Doing something for the love of it is one thing, but
                              >> doing something for money tends to destroy the "magic".
                              This is of
                              >> course my opinion, whatever you do, I wish
                              >> > you the best and as they say in Hollywood-"break a
                              leg!"
                              >> > Woodie
                              >> >
                              >> > Paul Woods <paulandclaire@ ...> wrote:
                              >> > Daniel
                              >> >
                              >> > All my local laser cutting companies are involved in making
                              >> > advertising signs or engraving things like trophies, or both.
                              You
                              >> > could even try contacting an electrical installation firm to ask
                              >> > where they have their warning signs and labels made, (The stiff
                              >> > plastic ones you see rivetted to big switchboards) quite often
                              they
                              >> > are laser-cut these days, so they might be able to point the
                              way.
                              >> >
                              >> > Making a living selling any type of kit is the challenge, it is
                              not
                              >> > just restricted to laser cut types ;-)
                              >> >
                              >> > Regards
                              >> > Paul
                              >> >
                              >>
                              >
                              >
                              >

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