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Re: Re: [FS32NGModelrail] Beet Wagon Bogies

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  • O&M Schouwstra & Van Barneveld
    For the skip lovers under us, Bending U channel is not too difficult. I do it as follows. The underframe is made in two parts, a l.h. and a r.h. side. The two
    Message 1 of 19 , Jan 1, 2002
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      For the skip lovers under us,
       
      Bending U channel is not too difficult. I do it as follows. The underframe is made in two parts, a l.h. and a r.h. side. The two parts are soldered together with the buffers to form a whole frame. The channel is heated before to make it a bit softer. The clue is to make a wooden template around which the channel is bent. This template is built up from three layers of triplex (layered wood). The middle layer is the template, this template must have exactly the same thicknes as the height of the channel. The upper and lower layers are made so that they protrude over the "template layer", this way the channel is closed in between those two and cannot make bends that we do not want. It can be done without cracks in the channel. Eventual irregulatities (in the "bottom of the U") can be corrected with blobs of solder filed to shape.
       
      The 1:48 skip bearings from Rolf Tonner (especially the big ones) are very well suited for skips in 1:35/32.  I used these also for my wooden peat wagons.
       
       
      Rolf has also beatifull 4 hole skip wheels for 16,5 mm gauge. I myself turn these wheels to the NMRA RP25-100 contour and have them then at exact scale, a beatifull sight.
       
      Otto.
       


      Chris, I agree that any self-respecting very-narrow gauge railway should
      have at least one V-skip in its collection! The difficulty is usually in
      making the chenneled underframe...

    • O&M Schouwstra & Van Barneveld
      Hello Henrik, members, The bottom of the U has a tendence to bend a bit outwards, but not always. When it does I make corrections with the blob of solder
      Message 2 of 19 , Jan 1, 2002
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        Hello Henrik, members,
         
        The "bottom" of the U has a tendence to bend a bit outwards, but not always. When it does I make corrections with the blob of solder method. Fill in the hole with solder and file the two faces until they are flat again. This does not affect the strenght of the construction, not even when all the brass is probably filed away in some (little )places, because the "legs" of the U stay intact. It will work better when the "legs" of the "U"are shorter then the "bottom".  
         
        For the "L" channel you could perhaps make the same template and press the channel into it with a suitable piece of metal ( this peice should have a thickness the same as the inner measure of the L channel). But here I must admit that I have no experience.
         
        Glad that Rolf Tonners adress was already corrected, thanks.
         
        Otto. 
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2004 12:44 PM
        Subject: Re: [FS32NGModelrail] Beet Wagon Bogies

        Hi Otto,

        Thanks for this great tip! I will try this, this very evening. I'm right in middle of this procees, but for feldbahn-like bogies for my new beet wagons. I am using "L" channel, but it should work the same way. Only difference, I think I will make a "negative" template on the other side, keeping the shape straight and keeping it from turning into an "V", or do you think this is not necessary. When you bend your "U" channels, do they never bend inwards ??

        /Henrik Laurell

        >
        > Från: "O&M Schouwstra & Van Barneveld" <postbus@...>
        > Datum: 2002/01/02 Wed AM 12:28:15 CET
        > Till: <FS32NGModelrail@yahoogroups.com>
        > Ämne: Re: Re: [FS32NGModelrail] Beet Wagon Bogies
        >
        > For the skip lovers under us,
        >
        > Bending U channel is not too difficult. I do it as follows. The underframe is made in two parts, a l.h. and a r.h. side. The two parts are soldered together with the buffers to form a whole frame. The channel is heated before to make it a bit softer. The clue is to make a wooden template around which the channel is bent. This template is built up from three layers of triplex (layered wood). The middle layer is the template, this template must have exactly the same thicknes as the height of the channel. The upper and lower layers are made so that they protrude over the "template layer", this way the channel is closed in between those two and cannot make bends that we do not want. It can be done without cracks in the channel. Eventual irregulatities (in the "bottom of the U") can be corrected with blobs of solder filed to shape.
        >
        > The 1:48 skip bearings from Rolf Tonner (especially the big ones) are very well suited for skips in 1:35/32.  I used these also for my wooden peat wagons.
        >
        > http://homepage.mac.rolftonner/links.html
        >
        > Rolf has also beatifull 4 hole skip wheels for 16,5 mm gauge. I myself turn these wheels to the NMRA RP25-100 contour and have them then at exact scale, a beatifull sight.
        >
        > Otto.
        >
        >
        >
        >   Chris, I agree that any self-respecting very-narrow gauge railway should
        >   have at least one V-skip in its collection! The difficulty is usually in
        >   making the chenneled underframe...
        >
        >
        >

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        For the skip lovers under us,
         
        Bending U channel is not too difficult. I do it as follows. The underframe is made in two parts, a l.h. and a r.h. side. The two parts are soldered together with the buffers to form a whole frame. The channel is heated before to make it a bit softer. The clue is to make a wooden template around which the channel is bent. This template is built up from three layers of triplex (layered wood). The middle layer is the template, this template must have exactly the same thicknes as the height of the channel. The upper and lower layers are made so that they protrude over the "template layer", this way the channel is closed in between those two and cannot make bends that we do not want. It can be done without cracks in the channel. Eventual irregulatities (in the "bottom of the U") can be corrected with blobs of solder filed to shape.
         
        The 1:48 skip bearings from Rolf Tonner (especially the big ones) are very well suited for skips in 1:35/32.  I used these also for my wooden peat wagons.
         
         
        Rolf has also beatifull 4 hole skip wheels for 16,5 mm gauge. I myself turn these wheels to the NMRA RP25-100 contour and have them then at exact scale, a beatifull sight.
         
        Otto.
         


        Chris, I agree that any self-respecting very-narrow gauge railway should
        have at least one V-skip in its collection! The difficulty is usually in
        making the chenneled underframe...


      • henrix@tele2.se
        Hi Claus and Per, Yesterday evening I finished the body frame and all metal parts on it, for the first roebane wagon. When I started with the mounting of the
        Message 3 of 19 , Sep 24, 2004
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          Hi Claus and Per,

          Yesterday evening I finished the body frame and all metal parts on it, for the first roebane wagon. When I started with the mounting of the bogies, I did right away discover that I couldn't use either archbar or symington bogies which I in the begining had in mind. It just looked awful... (check the attachment, somewhat dark but still..) It completely did take away the right "Roebane feeling"! So I will need to build also the bogies myself. Is it possibly to digg some more in your archives? If possible I would need some more detailed pictures on the bogies (and couplers), or just if Claus maybe could mail me the photos he already sent, but in original size so the details shows up better. The type I will build is the one without normal springs from the center and out, but the other standing up in a cirkular way like a screw (sorry can't recall the right name for them..). Simply because they are easier to build and I have lots of them in my scrapbox. Another thing which also is somewhat unclear, is the connection between the body frame and the bogie. Maybe darn hard to find photos on _that_ spot... but if you do,, nice!

          will mail some photos when the bogies are installed.

          many thanks in advance
          /Henrik

          ps! the attachment is also added to the "files/HL-01" folder.


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        • henrix@tele2.se
          Ok. Right now I am trying to create deasant bogies, which showed to be more difficult than I first thought. Already started my third try.... prev was moved to
          Message 4 of 19 , Sep 27, 2004
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            Ok.

            Right now I am trying to create deasant bogies, which showed to be more difficult than I first thought. Already started my third try.... prev was moved to scrapbox. I first tryed in brass as everything else I made sofar, but now last is a mix of brass and styren. I haven't give up yet.

            The size is no longer than a normal HO bogie-wagon, except that it of course will at bit wider and much higher... the body will be 6.5 cm * 16.6 cm (one inch is 2.53945 cm).

            I come back with some pics later on.
            /Henrik
            >
            > Från: "Les Coleman" <les.coleman@...>
            > Datum: 2004/09/27 Mon AM 10:33:49 CEST
            > Till: <FS32NGModelrail@yahoogroups.com>
            > Ämne: Re: Sv: [FS32NGModelrail] Beet Wagon Bogies
            >
            > No, don't apologise Henrik! You see, I currently model in 1:24 scale myself (although I keep getting tempted to try 1:35 again) and so I was very interested by your model, having saved all the excellent drawings and photos on my PC with a view to trying myself. Those sugar beet wagons will be BIG in 1:24 scale, though. Please keep us informed on your progress with this.
            >
            > Les.
            >
            > >>> henrix@... 24/09/04 22:51:12 >>>
            > Noo... they do not, your eyes are quit good. Sorry for entering 1:24 scale
            > in this list, just had to get in contact with Claus and Per on this list for
            > the Roebane info. Beside the scale, I thought sugar beet railways could be
            > interesting for all. At least me got a great frill out of them.
            > /Henrik
            >
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: "Les Coleman" <les.coleman@...>
            > To: <FS32NGModelrail@yahoogroups.com>
            > Sent: Friday, September 24, 2004 5:59 PM
            > Subject: Re: Sv: [FS32NGModelrail] Beet Wagon Bogies
            >
            >
            > Henrik, that mice brass bogie and figure behind look suspiciously like 1:24
            > scale to me. Or do my old eyes deceive me?
            >
            > Les.
            >
            > >>> henrix@... 24/09/04 08:45:57 >>>
            > forgotten the attachment.. /Henrik
            >
            > >
            > > Från: <henrix@...>
            > > Datum: 2004/09/24 Fri AM 09:35:02 CEST
            > > Till: FS32NGModelrail@yahoogroups.com
            > > Ämne: [FS32NGModelrail] Beet Wagon Bogies
            > >
            > > Hi Claus and Per,
            > >
            > > Yesterday evening I finished the body frame and all metal parts on it, for
            > the first roebane wagon. When I started with the mounting of the bogies, I
            > did right away discover that I couldn't use either archbar or symington
            > bogies which I in the begining had in mind. It just looked awful... (check
            > the attachment, somewhat dark but still..) It completely did take away the
            > right "Roebane feeling"! So I will need to build also the bogies myself. Is
            > it possibly to digg some more in your archives? If possible I would need
            > some more detailed pictures on the bogies (and couplers), or just if Claus
            > maybe could mail me the photos he already sent, but in original size so the
            > details shows up better. The type I will build is the one without normal
            > springs from the center and out, but the other standing up in a cirkular way
            > like a screw (sorry can't recall the right name for them..). Simply because
            > they are easier to build and I have lots of them in my scrapbox. Another
            > thing which also is somewhat unclear, is the connection between the body
            > frame and the bogie. Maybe darn hard to find photos on _that_ spot... but if
            > you do,, nice!
            > >
            > > will mail some photos when the bogies are installed.
            > >
            > > many thanks in advance
            > > /Henrik
            > >
            > > ps! the attachment is also added to the "files/HL-01" folder.
            > >
            > >
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          • Les Coleman
            Thanks Henrik, and good luck with the bogies. Personally I thought that bogie frame you photographed looked fine in the picture. Les. ... Ok. Right now I am
            Message 5 of 19 , Sep 27, 2004
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              Thanks Henrik, and good luck with the bogies. Personally I thought that bogie frame you photographed looked fine in the picture.

              Les.

              >>> henrix@... 27/09/04 10:54:01 >>>
              Ok.

              Right now I am trying to create deasant bogies, which showed to be more difficult than I first thought. Already started my third try.... prev was moved to scrapbox. I first tryed in brass as everything else I made sofar, but now last is a mix of brass and styren. I haven't give up yet.

              The size is no longer than a normal HO bogie-wagon, except that it of course will at bit wider and much higher... the body will be 6.5 cm * 16.6 cm (one inch is 2.53945 cm).

              I come back with some pics later on.
              /Henrik
              >
              > Från: "Les Coleman" <les.coleman@...>
              > Datum: 2004/09/27 Mon AM 10:33:49 CEST
              > Till: <FS32NGModelrail@yahoogroups.com>
              > Ämne: Re: Sv: [FS32NGModelrail] Beet Wagon Bogies
              >
              > No, don't apologise Henrik! You see, I currently model in 1:24 scale myself (although I keep getting tempted to try 1:35 again) and so I was very interested by your model, having saved all the excellent drawings and photos on my PC with a view to trying myself. Those sugar beet wagons will be BIG in 1:24 scale, though. Please keep us informed on your progress with this.
              >
              > Les.
              >
              > >>> henrix@... 24/09/04 22:51:12 >>>
              > Noo... they do not, your eyes are quit good. Sorry for entering 1:24 scale
              > in this list, just had to get in contact with Claus and Per on this list for
              > the Roebane info. Beside the scale, I thought sugar beet railways could be
              > interesting for all. At least me got a great frill out of them.
              > /Henrik
              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: "Les Coleman" <les.coleman@...>
              > To: <FS32NGModelrail@yahoogroups.com>
              > Sent: Friday, September 24, 2004 5:59 PM
              > Subject: Re: Sv: [FS32NGModelrail] Beet Wagon Bogies
              >
              >
              > Henrik, that mice brass bogie and figure behind look suspiciously like 1:24
              > scale to me. Or do my old eyes deceive me?
              >
              > Les.
              >
              > >>> henrix@... 24/09/04 08:45:57 >>>
              > forgotten the attachment.. /Henrik
              >
              > >
              > > Från: <henrix@...>
              > > Datum: 2004/09/24 Fri AM 09:35:02 CEST
              > > Till: FS32NGModelrail@yahoogroups.com
              > > Ämne: [FS32NGModelrail] Beet Wagon Bogies
              > >
              > > Hi Claus and Per,
              > >
              > > Yesterday evening I finished the body frame and all metal parts on it, for
              > the first roebane wagon. When I started with the mounting of the bogies, I
              > did right away discover that I couldn't use either archbar or symington
              > bogies which I in the begining had in mind. It just looked awful... (check
              > the attachment, somewhat dark but still..) It completely did take away the
              > right "Roebane feeling"! So I will need to build also the bogies myself. Is
              > it possibly to digg some more in your archives? If possible I would need
              > some more detailed pictures on the bogies (and couplers), or just if Claus
              > maybe could mail me the photos he already sent, but in original size so the
              > details shows up better. The type I will build is the one without normal
              > springs from the center and out, but the other standing up in a cirkular way
              > like a screw (sorry can't recall the right name for them..). Simply because
              > they are easier to build and I have lots of them in my scrapbox. Another
              > thing which also is somewhat unclear, is the connection between the body
              > frame and the bogie. Maybe darn hard to find photos on _that_ spot... but if
              > you do,, nice!
              > >
              > > will mail some photos when the bogies are installed.
              > >
              > > many thanks in advance
              > > /Henrik
              > >
              > > ps! the attachment is also added to the "files/HL-01" folder.
              > >
              > >
              > > -------------------------------------------------
              > > WebMail från Tele2 http://www.tele2.se
              > > -------------------------------------------------
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
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              > -------------------------------------------------
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            • henrix
              Hi Carl, That was a great page Jeff made! Jeffs version sounds ok in 7/8 scale, but a little bit to much work when it comes to 1:32 or 1:24 (things tends to
              Message 6 of 19 , Sep 27, 2004
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                Hi Carl,

                That was a great page Jeff made!

                Jeffs version sounds ok in 7/8" scale, but a little bit to much work when it
                comes to 1:32 or 1:24 (things tends to be so tiny when it comes to these
                scales..). I think I stick with my latest version I did come up with this
                evening. I do not bend them at all.., instead I make 4 straight angles, 2
                for each end and 2 for each side. I glue/solder them together and file off
                the material which is in the way for shaping a round curve. On the inside
                there will still be a sharp 90 degree, but who sees that then the model is
                coloured and weathered and the body is in place on top! On a tip-car it
                might show, but a little putty could solve that to. Or else one might do the
                british version, which uses one wide curve for complete frame-end. Again
                another version I tryed before this, was to use a grip with round jaws. This
                way I forced the angle to be a bit bigger than first tryes which was made
                with a grip which had square jaws. Doing so the material didn't get at all
                that much tension and did not break up.

                /Henrik Laurell

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Carl Arendt" <carendt@...>
                To: <FS32NGModelrail@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Monday, September 27, 2004 9:52 PM
                Subject: RE: Re: [FS32NGModelrail] Beet Wagon Bogies


                > At 1:58 PM -0300 9/27/04, mears wrote:
                >
                > > I have seen the nice brass sections available from Special Shapes, and
                > > like them, but the price seems a bit steep (usually around $5Cdn/ft), I
                > > had thought of using styrene channel. Heat forming to get the curved
                > > shaped was my first thought, but that just changes the nature of the
                > > distortion. Perhaps if I had the brass section and developed some kind
                > > of rolling die that the piece could be curved around to control
                > > distortion. I wonder how the prototype (Hudson, etc) handled the
                > > challenge?
                > >
                > > Chris Mears
                > > Charlottetown, PEI
                > > RevolveRailways
                >
                > Chris, I agree that any self-respecting very-narrow gauge railway should
                > have at least one V-skip in its collection! The difficulty is usually in
                > making the chenneled underframe...
                >
                > For a different approach to the problem, see
                > http://hometown.aol.com/jbsaxton/Tipcars.html . Jeff uses a three-layer
                > flat "sandwich", rather than trying to bend a brass channel. Admittedly he
                > has access to a laser to cut out his parts, but this method is worth a
                > look, I think!
                >
                > Carl Arendt
                > Micro Layouts for Model Railroads
                > http://carendt.us
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
              • Les Coleman
                I ve built skips in 1:35 and 1:24 in card using a similar method to the sandwich idea that Carl points out. Make an identical top and bottom profile, fix them
                Message 7 of 19 , Sep 28, 2004
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                  I've built skips in 1:35 and 1:24 in card using a similar method to the
                  sandwich idea that Carl points out. Make an identical top and bottom
                  profile, fix them together one above the other with spacers between them
                  in the middle of the ends and sides to give the correct height and then
                  run a strip of card vertically around the inside to form the back of the
                  channel. You can then remove the side spacers if you want to. Card is
                  fine soaked in cyanoacrylate adhesive, very strong, just rather light!
                  Never knew there were so many ways to build a skip...

                  Les.


                  For a different approach to the problem, see
                  http://hometown.aol.com/jbsaxton/Tipcars.html . Jeff uses a
                  three-layer
                  flat "sandwich", rather than trying to bend a brass channel. Admittedly
                  he
                  has access to a laser to cut out his parts, but this method is worth a
                  look, I think!

                  Carl Arendt
                  Micro Layouts for Model Railroads
                  http://carendt.us


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                • Vincent Bradley
                  Otto, The link didn t work.  Is there a problem with it or is he just down. Vincent ... From: O&M Schouwstra & Van Barneveld
                  Message 8 of 19 , Sep 28, 2004
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                    Otto,
                    The link didn't work.  Is there a problem with it or is he just down.
                    Vincent
                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: O&M Schouwstra & Van Barneveld [mailto:postbus@...]
                    Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2002 6:28 PM
                    To: FS32NGModelrail@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: Re: [FS32NGModelrail] Beet Wagon Bogies

                    For the skip lovers under us,
                     
                    Bending U channel is not too difficult. I do it as follows. The underframe is made in two parts, a l.h. and a r.h. side. The two parts are soldered together with the buffers to form a whole frame. The channel is heated before to make it a bit softer. The clue is to make a wooden template around which the channel is bent. This template is built up from three layers of triplex (layered wood). The middle layer is the template, this template must have exactly the same thicknes as the height of the channel. The upper and lower layers are made so that they protrude over the "template layer", this way the channel is closed in between those two and cannot make bends that we do not want. It can be done without cracks in the channel. Eventual irregulatities (in the "bottom of the U") can be corrected with blobs of solder filed to shape.
                     
                    The 1:48 skip bearings from Rolf Tonner (especially the big ones) are very well suited for skips in 1:35/32.  I used these also for my wooden peat wagons.
                     
                     
                    Rolf has also beatifull 4 hole skip wheels for 16,5 mm gauge. I myself turn these wheels to the NMRA RP25-100 contour and have them then at exact scale, a beatifull sight.
                     
                    Otto.
                     


                    Chris, I agree that any self-respecting very-narrow gauge railway should
                    have at least one V-skip in its collection! The difficulty is usually in
                    making the chenneled underframe...



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                  • henrix@tele2.se
                    Hi Otto, Thanks for this great tip! I will try this, this very evening. I m right in middle of this procees, but for feldbahn-like bogies for my new beet
                    Message 9 of 19 , Sep 28, 2004
                    • 0 Attachment
                      For the skip lovers under us,
                       
                      Bending U channel is not too difficult. I do it as follows. The underframe is made in two parts, a l.h. and a r.h. side. The two parts are soldered together with the buffers to form a whole frame. The channel is heated before to make it a bit softer. The clue is to make a wooden template around which the channel is bent. This template is built up from three layers of triplex (layered wood). The middle layer is the template, this template must have exactly the same thicknes as the height of the channel. The upper and lower layers are made so that they protrude over the "template layer", this way the channel is closed in between those two and cannot make bends that we do not want. It can be done without cracks in the channel. Eventual irregulatities (in the "bottom of the U") can be corrected with blobs of solder filed to shape.
                       
                      The 1:48 skip bearings from Rolf Tonner (especially the big ones) are very well suited for skips in 1:35/32.  I used these also for my wooden peat wagons.
                       
                       
                      Rolf has also beatifull 4 hole skip wheels for 16,5 mm gauge. I myself turn these wheels to the NMRA RP25-100 contour and have them then at exact scale, a beatifull sight.
                       
                      Otto.
                       


                      Chris, I agree that any self-respecting very-narrow gauge railway should
                      have at least one V-skip in its collection! The difficulty is usually in
                      making the chenneled underframe...


                    • henrix@tele2.se
                      correct link is http://homepage.mac.com/rolftonner/LINKS.html /Henrik ... WebMail från Tele2 http://www.tele2.se ... Otto, The link didn t work. Is there a
                      Message 10 of 19 , Sep 28, 2004
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Otto,
                        The link didn't work.  Is there a problem with it or is he just down.
                        Vincent
                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: O&M Schouwstra & Van Barneveld [mailto:postbus@...]
                        Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2002 6:28 PM
                        To: FS32NGModelrail@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: Re: [FS32NGModelrail] Beet Wagon Bogies

                        For the skip lovers under us,
                         
                        Bending U channel is not too difficult. I do it as follows. The underframe is made in two parts, a l.h. and a r.h. side. The two parts are soldered together with the buffers to form a whole frame. The channel is heated before to make it a bit softer. The clue is to make a wooden template around which the channel is bent. This template is built up from three layers of triplex (layered wood). The middle layer is the template, this template must have exactly the same thicknes as the height of the channel. The upper and lower layers are made so that they protrude over the "template layer", this way the channel is closed in between those two and cannot make bends that we do not want. It can be done without cracks in the channel. Eventual irregulatities (in the "bottom of the U") can be corrected with blobs of solder filed to shape.
                         
                        The 1:48 skip bearings from Rolf Tonner (especially the big ones) are very well suited for skips in 1:35/32.  I used these also for my wooden peat wagons.
                         
                         
                        Rolf has also beatifull 4 hole skip wheels for 16,5 mm gauge. I myself turn these wheels to the NMRA RP25-100 contour and have them then at exact scale, a beatifull sight.
                         
                        Otto.
                         


                        Chris, I agree that any self-respecting very-narrow gauge railway should
                        have at least one V-skip in its collection! The difficulty is usually in
                        making the chenneled underframe...



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                      • henrix
                        Hi, For the ones interested, I have released my September logbook including my latest versions of the Roebane bogies(trucks) made this evening. The time wasn t
                        Message 11 of 19 , Sep 28, 2004
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Hi,

                          For the ones interested, I have released my September logbook including my
                          latest versions of the Roebane bogies(trucks) made this evening. The time
                          wasn't enough for trying out Otto's latest tip below, will be tomorrow. I
                          did concentrate on finishing the ones I allready started.

                          Cheers
                          /Henrik Laurell, Sweden - www.laurell.nu


                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: "O&M Schouwstra & Van Barneveld" <postbus@...>
                          To: <FS32NGModelrail@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2002 6:32 AM
                          Subject: Re: [FS32NGModelrail] Beet Wagon Bogies


                          Hello Henrik, members,

                          The "bottom" of the U has a tendence to bend a bit outwards, but not always.
                          When it does I make corrections with the blob of solder method. Fill in the
                          hole with solder and file the two faces until they are flat again. This does
                          not affect the strenght of the construction, not even when all the brass is
                          probably filed away in some (little )places, because the "legs" of the U
                          stay intact. It will work better when the "legs" of the "U"are shorter then
                          the "bottom".

                          For the "L" channel you could perhaps make the same template and press the
                          channel into it with a suitable piece of metal ( this peice should have a
                          thickness the same as the inner measure of the L channel). But here I must
                          admit that I have no experience.

                          Glad that Rolf Tonners adress was already corrected, thanks.

                          Otto.
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: henrix@...
                          To: FS32NGModelrail@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2004 12:44 PM
                          Subject: Re: [FS32NGModelrail] Beet Wagon Bogies


                          Hi Otto,

                          Thanks for this great tip! I will try this, this very evening. I'm right
                          in middle of this procees, but for feldbahn-like bogies for my new beet
                          wagons. I am using "L" channel, but it should work the same way. Only
                          difference, I think I will make a "negative" template on the other side,
                          keeping the shape straight and keeping it from turning into an "V", or do
                          you think this is not necessary. When you bend your "U" channels, do they
                          never bend inwards ??

                          /Henrik Laurell

                          >
                          > Från: "O&M Schouwstra & Van Barneveld" <postbus@...>
                          > Datum: 2002/01/02 Wed AM 12:28:15 CET
                          > Till: <FS32NGModelrail@yahoogroups.com>
                          > Ämne: Re: Re: [FS32NGModelrail] Beet Wagon Bogies
                          >
                          > For the skip lovers under us,
                          >
                          > Bending U channel is not too difficult. I do it as follows. The
                          underframe is made in two parts, a l.h. and a r.h. side. The two parts are
                          soldered together with the buffers to form a whole frame. The channel is
                          heated before to make it a bit softer. The clue is to make a wooden template
                          around which the channel is bent. This template is built up from three
                          layers of triplex (layered wood). The middle layer is the template, this
                          template must have exactly the same thicknes as the height of the channel.
                          The upper and lower layers are made so that they protrude over the "template
                          layer", this way the channel is closed in between those two and cannot make
                          bends that we do not want. It can be done without cracks in the channel.
                          Eventual irregulatities (in the "bottom of the U") can be corrected with
                          blobs of solder filed to shape.
                          >
                          > The 1:48 skip bearings from Rolf Tonner (especially the big ones) are
                          very well suited for skips in 1:35/32. I used these also for my wooden peat
                          wagons.
                          >
                          > http://homepage.mac.rolftonner/links.html
                          >
                          > Rolf has also beatifull 4 hole skip wheels for 16,5 mm gauge. I myself
                          turn these wheels to the NMRA RP25-100 contour and have them then at exact
                          scale, a beatifull sight.
                          >
                          > Otto.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Chris, I agree that any self-respecting very-narrow gauge railway
                          should
                          > have at least one V-skip in its collection! The difficulty is usually
                          in
                          > making the chenneled underframe...
                          >
                          >
                          >

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                          For the skip lovers under us,

                          Bending U channel is not too difficult. I do it as follows. The underframe
                          is made in two parts, a l.h. and a r.h. side. The two parts are soldered
                          together with the buffers to form a whole frame. The channel is heated
                          before to make it a bit softer. The clue is to make a wooden template around
                          which the channel is bent. This template is built up from three layers of
                          triplex (layered wood). The middle layer is the template, this template must
                          have exactly the same thicknes as the height of the channel. The upper and
                          lower layers are made so that they protrude over the "template layer", this
                          way the channel is closed in between those two and cannot make bends that we
                          do not want. It can be done without cracks in the channel. Eventual
                          irregulatities (in the "bottom of the U") can be corrected with blobs of
                          solder filed to shape.

                          The 1:48 skip bearings from Rolf Tonner (especially the big ones) are very
                          well suited for skips in 1:35/32. I used these also for my wooden peat
                          wagons.

                          http://homepage.mac.rolftonner/links.html

                          Rolf has also beatifull 4 hole skip wheels for 16,5 mm gauge. I myself
                          turn these wheels to the NMRA RP25-100 contour and have them then at exact
                          scale, a beatifull sight.

                          Otto.



                          Chris, I agree that any self-respecting very-narrow gauge railway should
                          have at least one V-skip in its collection! The difficulty is usually in
                          making the chenneled underframe...
                        • William Uffelman
                          Otto -- the date is set wrong on your computer so it is playing havoc with the order of my emails! 8 )) Bill Uffelman O&M Schouwstra & Van Barneveld
                          Message 12 of 19 , Sep 28, 2004
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Otto -- the date is set wrong on your computer so it is playing havoc with the order of my emails! 8>))
                             
                            Bill Uffelman

                            O&M Schouwstra & Van Barneveld <postbus@...> wrote:
                            Hello Henrik, members,
                             
                            The "************
                            Glad that Rolf Tonners adress was already corrected, thanks.
                             
                            Otto. 

                            >
                            > Fr�n: "O&M Schouwstra & Van Barneveld" <postbus@...>
                            > Datum: 2002/01/02 Wed AM 12:28:15 CET
                            > Till: <FS32NGModelrail@yahoogroups.com>
                            > �mne: Re: Re: [FS32NGModelrail] Beet Wagon Bogies


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                          • mears
                            Les, wow. I get so caught up in the newer media that I use every day in the studio to create models that I never thought (I m almost too embarrased to mention
                            Message 13 of 19 , Sep 28, 2004
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Les, wow. I get so caught up in the newer media that I use every day in
                              the studio to create models that I never thought (I'm almost too
                              embarrased to mention this) that I never considered the use of card in
                              such an application. Some of my favourite past models were paper/card
                              and reading your suggestion, particularily in this venue is great!

                              Cardstock is so easy to fabricate in, and it actually is a bit more
                              resilient in the long run than the softer plastics that we use nowadays.
                              I think if I used my PC (AutoCAD) to create a paper template that could
                              be spray mounted to a sheet of card and cutout and the sandwich created
                              per your suggestion that something really sharp could be created.

                              Time to get to the bench!

                              Chris Mears
                              Charlottetown, PEI
                              RevolveRailways

                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: Les Coleman [mailto:les.coleman@...]
                              Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2004 8:07 AM
                              To: FS32NGModelrail@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: RE: Re: [FS32NGModelrail] Beet Wagon Bogies


                              I've built skips in 1:35 and 1:24 in card using a similar method to the
                              sandwich idea that Carl points out. Make an identical top and bottom
                              profile, fix them together one above the other with spacers between them
                              in the middle of the ends and sides to give the correct height and then
                              run a strip of card vertically around the inside to form the back of the
                              channel. You can then remove the side spacers if you want to. Card is
                              fine soaked in cyanoacrylate adhesive, very strong, just rather light!
                              Never knew there were so many ways to build a skip...

                              Les.


                              For a different approach to the problem, see
                              http://hometown.aol.com/jbsaxton/Tipcars.html . Jeff uses a three-layer
                              flat "sandwich", rather than trying to bend a brass channel. Admittedly
                              he has access to a laser to cut out his parts, but this method is worth
                              a look, I think!

                              Carl Arendt
                              Micro Layouts for Model Railroads
                              http://carendt.us


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                            • Les Coleman
                              Chris, I ve used cardstock extensively in modelling both railways and ships for nearly 40 years. (Since I was a boy, I hasten to add - I m not THAT old) It s a
                              Message 14 of 19 , Sep 29, 2004
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Chris, I've used cardstock extensively in modelling both railways and
                                ships for nearly 40 years. (Since I was a boy, I hasten to add - I'm not
                                THAT old)

                                It's a highly under-rated material and if properly treated it lasts for
                                centuries. I've run engines off the end of the baseboard onto the floor
                                without too much damage. It is intrinsically light of course, so some
                                weight has to be hidden away whereas with brass this is taken care of.
                                Hiding weight in a skip chassis is a challenge, but it's easy to make a
                                false floor in a skip bucket and hide some sheet lead there. It's hard
                                to tell from looking at it afterwards. Attached is a pic (357kb) of a
                                rake of my skips, unfortunately in 1:24 scale - apologies. I've also
                                built 2 Hudson Rugga skips in card in 1:35 but I don't have pics of
                                those to hand.

                                All three skip bodies are card and the middle skip (from the 18 inch
                                Silvasprings watercress industrial railway in Somerset, UK) has a card
                                underframe built as I described. The slender bucket supports are card
                                as well, well soaked in cyanoacrylate adhesive which makes them very
                                strong.

                                I really like your idea about using autocad to create templates. That
                                would be very accurate and also it would make a rake of identical skips
                                much easier to build. I might try printing straight onto card, like I
                                do with card ship kits.

                                If you decide to give it a go, good luck and please share the results!

                                Les.

                                >>> mears@... 29/09/04 05:01:14 >>>
                                Les, wow. I get so caught up in the newer media that I use every day
                                in
                                the studio to create models that I never thought (I'm almost too
                                embarrased to mention this) that I never considered the use of card in
                                such an application. Some of my favourite past models were paper/card
                                and reading your suggestion, particularily in this venue is great!

                                Cardstock is so easy to fabricate in, and it actually is a bit more
                                resilient in the long run than the softer plastics that we use
                                nowadays.
                                I think if I used my PC (AutoCAD) to create a paper template that
                                could
                                be spray mounted to a sheet of card and cutout and the sandwich
                                created
                                per your suggestion that something really sharp could be created.

                                Time to get to the bench!

                                Chris Mears
                                Charlottetown, PEI
                                RevolveRailways




                                This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please email us.
                                Any views expressed are not necessarily the views of Wealden District Council unless stated.
                              • Vincent Bradley
                                Lee, Terry sent me an email indicating just that followed by some flat wagons. I am looking forward to getting a nice rake of them. It is my intention to
                                Message 15 of 19 , Sep 29, 2004
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Lee,
                                  Terry sent me an email indicating just that followed by some flat wagons.
                                  I am looking forward to getting a nice rake of them. It is my intention to
                                  recreate a Leighton Buzzard sand operation.
                                  Vincent Bradley

                                  FS32NGModelrail-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



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                                • Lee Snover
                                  ... I understand that Bridge Models will soon release a kit for a V tip... in 1:32 scale, 3/4 gauge.. Best, Lee
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Sep 29, 2004
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    On Sep 29, 2004, at 8:58 AM, Les Coleman wrote:

                                    > Chris, I've used cardstock extensively in modelling both railways and
                                    > ships for nearly 40 years. (Since I was a boy, I hasten to add - I'm
                                    > not
                                    > THAT old)
                                    >
                                    > It's a highly under-rated material and if properly treated it lasts
                                    > for
                                    > centuries. I've run engines off the end of the baseboard onto the
                                    > floor
                                    > without too much damage. It is intrinsically light of course, so some
                                    > weight has to be hidden away whereas with brass this is taken care of.
                                    > Hiding weight in a skip chassis is a challenge, but it's easy to make
                                    > a
                                    > false floor in a skip bucket and hide some sheet lead there. It's hard
                                    > to tell from looking at it afterwards. Attached is a pic (357kb) of a
                                    > rake of my skips, unfortunately in 1:24 scale - apologies. I've also
                                    > built 2 Hudson Rugga skips in card in 1:35 but I don't have pics of
                                    > those to hand.
                                    >

                                    I understand that Bridge Models will soon release a kit for a V tip...
                                    in 1:32 scale, 3/4" gauge..

                                    Best,
                                    Lee
                                  • mears
                                    Wow Les, I just saw the pictures of the skips, very nice work. I ve just taken a break from baseboard building, and time found I would like to get at some
                                    Message 17 of 19 , Sep 30, 2004
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Wow Les, I just saw the pictures of the skips, very nice work. I've
                                      just taken a break from baseboard building, and time found I would like
                                      to get at some cars next...

                                      The third skip has inside bearings, how are they built. I ask this as I
                                      have several cars that I would like to build, and worry about too much
                                      friction and cars that won't roll.

                                      Chris Mears
                                      Charlottetown, PEI

                                      -----Original Message-----
                                      From: Les Coleman [mailto:les.coleman@...]
                                      Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 12:59 PM
                                      To: FS32NGModelrail@yahoogroups.com
                                      Subject: RE: Re: [FS32NGModelrail] Beet Wagon Bogies


                                      Chris, I've used cardstock extensively in modelling both railways and
                                      ships for nearly 40 years. (Since I was a boy, I hasten to add - I'm not
                                      THAT old)

                                      It's a highly under-rated material and if properly treated it lasts for
                                      centuries. I've run engines off the end of the baseboard onto the floor
                                      without too much damage. It is intrinsically light of course, so some
                                      weight has to be hidden away whereas with brass this is taken care of.
                                      Hiding weight in a skip chassis is a challenge, but it's easy to make a
                                      false floor in a skip bucket and hide some sheet lead there. It's hard
                                      to tell from looking at it afterwards. Attached is a pic (357kb) of a
                                      rake of my skips, unfortunately in 1:24 scale - apologies. I've also
                                      built 2 Hudson Rugga skips in card in 1:35 but I don't have pics of
                                      those to hand.

                                      All three skip bodies are card and the middle skip (from the 18 inch
                                      Silvasprings watercress industrial railway in Somerset, UK) has a card
                                      underframe built as I described. The slender bucket supports are card
                                      as well, well soaked in cyanoacrylate adhesive which makes them very
                                      strong.

                                      I really like your idea about using autocad to create templates. That
                                      would be very accurate and also it would make a rake of identical skips
                                      much easier to build. I might try printing straight onto card, like I
                                      do with card ship kits.

                                      If you decide to give it a go, good luck and please share the results!

                                      Les.

                                      >>> mears@... 29/09/04 05:01:14 >>>
                                      Les, wow. I get so caught up in the newer media that I use every day in
                                      the studio to create models that I never thought (I'm almost too
                                      embarrased to mention this) that I never considered the use of card in
                                      such an application. Some of my favourite past models were paper/card
                                      and reading your suggestion, particularily in this venue is great!

                                      Cardstock is so easy to fabricate in, and it actually is a bit more
                                      resilient in the long run than the softer plastics that we use nowadays.
                                      I think if I used my PC (AutoCAD) to create a paper template that could
                                      be spray mounted to a sheet of card and cutout and the sandwich created
                                      per your suggestion that something really sharp could be created.

                                      Time to get to the bench!

                                      Chris Mears
                                      Charlottetown, PEI
                                      RevolveRailways




                                      This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
                                      intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are
                                      addressed. If you have received this email in error please email us. Any
                                      views expressed are not necessarily the views of Wealden District
                                      Council unless stated.



                                      Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    • Les Coleman
                                      Thanks Chris, Henrik. Since the photos were taken I ve changed to HO scale Kadee couplers, which look and work much better. Link and pin would look nicer but
                                      Message 18 of 19 , Sep 30, 2004
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Thanks Chris, Henrik. Since the photos were taken I've changed to HO
                                        scale Kadee couplers, which look and work much better. Link and pin
                                        would look nicer but be a pain to use at exhibitions.

                                        The inside-framed skip was built from a plan in Narrow Gauge and
                                        Shortline Gazette and is from an 18 inch gauge Arizona copper mine
                                        prototype. The inside bearings are so crude... Each side of the chassis
                                        has just a square "box" of styrene made up of a "downstand" of strip
                                        styrene each side of the axle glued end-on to the bottom of the chassis
                                        side member and a cap of the same material cemented between their bottom
                                        ends to stop the axle from falling out. I've found the secret of good
                                        running with this method of construction to be lubrication with Kadee
                                        Greas'em. If you're not familiar with it, this is a dry graphite
                                        lubricant which you just puff on the meeting surfaces. It's amazing!
                                        The skip runs fairly freely, although how well a long rake of them would
                                        roll, I don't know, but then I just run short trains. Let me know if you
                                        want any more detail.

                                        Les.

                                        >>> mears@... 30/09/04 14:58:55 >>>
                                        Wow Les, I just saw the pictures of the skips, very nice work. I've
                                        just taken a break from baseboard building, and time found I would
                                        like
                                        to get at some cars next...

                                        The third skip has inside bearings, how are they built. I ask this as
                                        I
                                        have several cars that I would like to build, and worry about too much
                                        friction and cars that won't roll.

                                        Chris Mears
                                        Charlottetown, PEI

                                        -----Original Message-----
                                        From: Les Coleman [mailto:les.coleman@...]
                                        Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 12:59 PM
                                        To: FS32NGModelrail@yahoogroups.com
                                        Subject: RE: Re: [FS32NGModelrail] Beet Wagon Bogies


                                        Chris, I've used cardstock extensively in modelling both railways and
                                        ships for nearly 40 years. (Since I was a boy, I hasten to add - I'm
                                        not
                                        THAT old)

                                        It's a highly under-rated material and if properly treated it lasts
                                        for
                                        centuries. I've run engines off the end of the baseboard onto the
                                        floor
                                        without too much damage. It is intrinsically light of course, so some
                                        weight has to be hidden away whereas with brass this is taken care of.

                                        Hiding weight in a skip chassis is a challenge, but it's easy to make
                                        a
                                        false floor in a skip bucket and hide some sheet lead there. It's hard
                                        to tell from looking at it afterwards. Attached is a pic (357kb) of a
                                        rake of my skips, unfortunately in 1:24 scale - apologies. I've also
                                        built 2 Hudson Rugga skips in card in 1:35 but I don't have pics of
                                        those to hand.

                                        All three skip bodies are card and the middle skip (from the 18 inch
                                        Silvasprings watercress industrial railway in Somerset, UK) has a card
                                        underframe built as I described. The slender bucket supports are card
                                        as well, well soaked in cyanoacrylate adhesive which makes them very
                                        strong.

                                        I really like your idea about using autocad to create templates. That
                                        would be very accurate and also it would make a rake of identical
                                        skips
                                        much easier to build. I might try printing straight onto card, like I
                                        do with card ship kits.

                                        If you decide to give it a go, good luck and please share the results!

                                        Les.

                                        >>> mears@... 29/09/04 05:01:14 >>>
                                        Les, wow. I get so caught up in the newer media that I use every day
                                        in
                                        the studio to create models that I never thought (I'm almost too
                                        embarrased to mention this) that I never considered the use of card in
                                        such an application. Some of my favourite past models were paper/card
                                        and reading your suggestion, particularily in this venue is great!

                                        Cardstock is so easy to fabricate in, and it actually is a bit more
                                        resilient in the long run than the softer plastics that we use
                                        nowadays.
                                        I think if I used my PC (AutoCAD) to create a paper template that
                                        could
                                        be spray mounted to a sheet of card and cutout and the sandwich
                                        created
                                        per your suggestion that something really sharp could be created.

                                        Time to get to the bench!

                                        Chris Mears
                                        Charlottetown, PEI
                                        RevolveRailways




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                                      • mears
                                        Thanks for the reply Les. I am having a blast talking skips lately, and we seem to be on the same page for modelling styles. Just gotta find a digital camera
                                        Message 19 of 19 , Sep 30, 2004
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Thanks for the reply Les. I am having a blast talking skips lately, and
                                          we seem to be on the same page for modelling styles. Just gotta find a
                                          digital camera so I can share of my work. I know about the Grease-Em
                                          lube, and agree to it's abilities.

                                          I too will use Kadee's on my stock for the same reasons, though coming
                                          from the smaller scales (Nn3), I don't think that link and pin would be
                                          all that hard to use (he he he).

                                          Cheers
                                          Chris Mears
                                          Charlottetown, PEI
                                          RevovleRailways
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