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Re: Drawings and Photos wanted / Deutz OMZ 122 Drawings

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  • Mike South
    My sincere thanks to Franck Tavernier and Arnoud Bongaards for their gentle and most helpful attempts to improve my (woefully lacking) education about small
    Message 1 of 17 , Apr 8, 2001
      My sincere thanks to Franck Tavernier and Arnoud Bongaards for their
      gentle and most helpful attempts to improve my (woefully lacking)
      education about small 'Continental' i/c locomotives :-)

      Mike South
    • Franck Tavernier
      Hi Arnoud, I believe that the gearbox was the same in the Deutz and the Petolat. The drawing isn t very detailed on this part. I have no other photos on these
      Message 2 of 17 , Apr 9, 2001
        Hi Arnoud,

        I believe that the gearbox was the same in the Deutz and the Petolat. The
        drawing isn't very detailed on this part. I have no other photos on these
        engines.

        Have fun,

        Franck Tavernier.
      • Arnoud Bongaards
        ... Franck, Then we can safely assume that the loco s are exactly the same. BTW a very beautiful machine! Where was the photo taken? Groeten, Arnoud Bongaards
        Message 3 of 17 , Apr 9, 2001
          --- In FS32NGModelrail@y..., "Franck Tavernier" <fvtavernier@c...>
          wrote:
          > Hi Arnoud,
          >
          >I believe that the gearbox was the same in the Deutz and the
          >Petolat.

          Franck,

          Then we can safely assume that the loco's are exactly the same.
          BTW a very beautiful machine! Where was the photo taken?

          Groeten,

          Arnoud Bongaards - Amsterdam
        • B.Rumary
          ... I would not say this is really true; although they are similar, there are also many differences. Certainly the Ns1 is _not_ a copy of the EL105. ... I
          Message 4 of 17 , Apr 10, 2001
            In <9aq49b+q3ev@...>, Arnoud Bongaards wrote:

            > -LKM NS 1 looks like the JUNG EL105 type
            >
            I would not say this is really true; although they are similar, there
            are also many differences. Certainly the Ns1 is _not_ a copy of the
            EL105.

            > -STANSTECO (England) did built loco's like the little JUNG MS131.
            >
            I think Stansteco imported German (Jung?) locos - I don't think they
            built any themselves.

            > -SPOORIJZER (Netherlands) and BAGNALL did built DEUTZ loco's in
            > license. Some DUCROO steamloco's look alot like J.A. MAFFEI loco's.
            >
            I have seen a pair of DuCroo steam locos on Java that were actually
            built by Maffei. I believe that in their early years DuCroo supplied
            some steam locos that they did not build themselves.

            Brian Rumary, England

            http://freespace.virgin.net/brian.rumary/homepage.htm
          • Arnoud Bongaards
            Brian, all, ... No, you are right. It only looks like an EL 105 (general dimensions, frame and axleboxes). ... I have this info out of the book The British
            Message 5 of 17 , Apr 10, 2001
              Brian, all,

              --- In FS32NGModelrail@y..., B.Rumary <brian.rumary@v...> wrote:
              In <9aq49b+q3ev@e...>, Arnoud Bongaards wrote:

              > > -LKM NS 1 looks like the JUNG EL105 type

              >I would not say this is really true; although they are similar,
              >there are also many differences. Certainly the Ns1 is not a copy
              >of the EL105.

              No, you are right. It only looks like an EL 105 (general dimensions,
              frame and axleboxes).

              > >STANSTECO (England) did built loco's like the little JUNG MS131.

              >I think Stansteco imported German (Jung?) locos - I don't think they
              > built any themselves.

              I have this info out of the book "The British Internal Combustion
              Locomotive 1894-1940" by Brian Webb. In the book is a pic of a
              Stansteco loco which, apart from different platework seems a copy of
              a Jung MS131. According to the info in the book Stansteco imported
              Jung loco's and made simular diesels themselves, of Jung design
              though built in Britain.

              > > -SPOORIJZER (Netherlands) and BAGNALL did built DEUTZ loco's in
              > > license. Some DUCROO steamloco's look alot like J.A. MAFFEI
              > > loco's.

              > I have seen a pair of DuCroo steam locos on Java that were actually
              > built by Maffei. I believe that in their early years DuCroo
              > supplied some steam locos that they did not build themselves.

              Du Croo & Brauns indeed in their early day's imported Maffei loco's
              from Germany. They even -after overhauling them- put Du Croo plates
              on Maffei loco's. The loco's they built later on had strong Maffei
              design influences.


              Groeten,

              Arnoud Bongaards - Amsterdam
            • Charley Lix
              Fellers , ... For the record only .. Stansteco was an importer for some time then took to building replica s for sale .. as I understand it .. Have Fun -
              Message 6 of 17 , Apr 10, 2001
                Fellers ,



                ----------
                >From: "B.Rumary" <brian.rumary@...>

                >> -STANSTECO (England) did built loco's like the little JUNG MS131.

                >I think Stansteco imported German (Jung?) locos - I don't think they
                >built any themselves.


                For the record only .. "Stansteco " was an importer for some time then took
                to building replica's for sale .. as I understand it ..




                Have Fun - Charley , G.R.G / MaB
              • Franck Tavernier
                Hi Arnoud, guy s, The photos were taken on the Tacot des lacs railway association near Paris. The association Tacot des lacs is a preserved section of an
                Message 7 of 17 , Apr 11, 2001

                  Hi Arnoud, guy's,

                  The photos were taken on the "Tacot des lacs" railway association near Paris. The association "Tacot des lacs" is a preserved section of an industrial line built for sand quarries around Bourron-Marlotte. (Seine & Marne).

                  The collection is very impressive; this association preserves large amount equipment of diesel and steam locos. (WW1, industrial loco, etc.)

                  Have fun,

                  Franck Tavernier,

                  Athies, France.

                  ----- Original Message -----
                  Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 10:52 PM
                  Subject: [FS32NGModelrail] Re: Deutz PM

                  --- In FS32NGModelrail@y..., "Franck Tavernier" <fvtavernier@c...>
                  wrote:
                  > Hi Arnoud,
                  >
                  >I believe that the gearbox was the same in the Deutz and the
                  >Petolat.

                  Franck,

                  Then we can safely assume that the loco's are exactly the same.
                  BTW a very beautiful machine! Where was the photo taken?

                  Groeten,

                  Arnoud Bongaards - Amsterdam



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                • ScaleLinkDG@aol.com
                  Dans un courrier daté du 07/04/01 23:11:18 Paris, Madrid (heure d été), mikesouth@home.com a écrit :
                  Message 8 of 17 , Apr 19, 2001
                    Dans un courrier daté du 07/04/01 23:11:18 Paris, Madrid (heure d'été),
                    mikesouth@... a écrit :

                    << Franck Tavernier initially wrote:-

                    "I'm in search of photos and drawings on the Deutz PME 117"

                    And then Arnoud Bongaards, Michel Massot, Joseph @ 'Scale Link', Gerrit
                    Van Roy and Evan James all made useful follow-up postings.

                    So here is where I demonstrate for all to see my abysmal ignorance of
                    most 'Continental' narrow gauge diesel locomotives... >>

                    It's a subject that I have only recently got involved in and I feel the same
                    way. There are just so many variants and so many manufacturers.

                    One recent posting mentioned the Frankfurt Feldbahnmuseum. At the recent
                    Paris show (from which I returned yesterday), another standholder showed me
                    the museum's handbook. This contains a simple drawing of a Deutz 117. Is this
                    the one that Franck is looking for?

                    While in Paris, also had long discussions about possible future projects. All
                    the recent postings (during my stay in Paris) give plenty of food for thought.

                    Early conclusion is that ScaleLink as such (and I will not bore you all here
                    with the intricacies of the various companies) will continue to concentrate
                    on its high-quality range of 1914-18 war locomotives and rolling stock. The
                    Péchot was received enthusiastically at Paris and will be followed by another
                    loco (internal combustion) later this year and, hopefully, some more wagons.

                    Under some other label (probably my own, EMP), we will try to launch some
                    smaller, simpler locos and rolling stock, perhaps in 1:35 rather than 9mm/ft.
                    Given the present workload on HO products, nothing is likely to appear before
                    1992 but some preliminary work will be done before then.

                    We looked through the catalogues of all the HO mainstream manufacturers but
                    could not find anything suitable in respect of steam locos. All failed either
                    on wheelbase or on wheel size. We can get wheels made to order at quite
                    reasonable prices so it seems more sensible for steam locomotives for it to
                    be a complete kit.

                    Diesels might be a different matter with some very good HO/OO diesel shunter
                    models available.

                    Regards,

                    Joseph

                    PS: Next exhibition of interest to NG modellers, Versailles (5ème Régiment du
                    Génie), 9/10 June.
                  • ScaleLinkDG@aol.com
                    Dans un courrier daté du 08/04/01 18:40:51 Paris, Madrid (heure d été), a67b@yahoo.com a écrit :
                    Message 9 of 17 , Apr 19, 2001
                      Dans un courrier daté du 08/04/01 18:40:51 Paris, Madrid (heure d'été),
                      a67b@... a écrit :

                      << -SPOORIJZER (Netherlands) and BAGNALL did built DEUTZ loco's in
                      license. >>
                      This is most interesting information. I should be delighted to receive
                      further details. When making a kit it is very easy for us (as etching
                      specialists) to include alternative badges and worksplates.

                      Rgards,

                      Joseph Pestell
                    • Franck Tavernier
                      Hi Joseph, The Deutz preserved by the Frankfurt Museum is a Deutz OMZ 117, and not a PME 117. According to the http://www.Lokhersteller.de site, 6 museums
                      Message 10 of 17 , Apr 19, 2001

                        Hi Joseph,

                        The Deutz preserved by the Frankfurt Museum is a Deutz OMZ 117, and not a PME 117.

                        According to the http://www.Lokhersteller.de site, 6 museums preserved a Deutz PME 117.

                        Two of them are private. I sent e-mail to two other museums of which I could find their address e-mail, last 9 April:

                          • The museum Industribaneklubben Hedehusene IBK "M9" in Denmark
                          • The museum Golden Valley Light Railway " furious " in England

                         

                        I always await an answer.

                        Have fun,

                        Franck Tavernier.

                        Athies, France.

                        ----- Original Message -----
                        Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2001 9:21 AM
                        Subject: Re: [FS32NGModelrail] Re: Drawings and Photos wanted / Deutz OMZ 122 Drawings

                        Dans un courrier daté du 07/04/01 23:11:18 Paris, Madrid (heure d'été),
                        mikesouth@... a écrit :

                        << Franck Tavernier initially wrote:-

                        "I'm in search of photos and drawings on  the Deutz PME 117"

                        And then Arnoud Bongaards, Michel Massot, Joseph @ 'Scale Link', Gerrit
                        Van Roy and Evan James all made useful follow-up postings.

                        So here is where I demonstrate for all to see my abysmal ignorance of
                        most 'Continental' narrow gauge diesel locomotives... >>

                        It's a subject that I have only recently got involved in and I feel the same
                        way. There are just so many variants and so many manufacturers.

                        One recent posting mentioned the Frankfurt Feldbahnmuseum. At the recent
                        Paris show (from which I returned yesterday), another standholder showed me
                        the museum's handbook. This contains a simple drawing of a Deutz 117. Is this
                        the one that Franck is looking for?

                        While in Paris, also had long discussions about possible future projects. All
                        the recent postings (during my stay in Paris) give plenty of food for thought.

                        Early conclusion is that ScaleLink as such (and I will not bore you all here
                        with the intricacies of the various companies) will continue to concentrate
                        on its high-quality range of 1914-18 war locomotives and rolling stock. The
                        Péchot was received enthusiastically at Paris and will be followed by another
                        loco (internal combustion) later this year and, hopefully, some more wagons

                        Under some other label (probably my own, EMP), we will try to launch some
                        smaller, simpler locos and rolling stock, perhaps in 1:35 rather than 9mm/ft.
                        Given the present workload on HO products, nothing is likely to appear before
                        1992 but some preliminary work will be done before then.

                        We looked through the catalogues of all the HO mainstream manufacturers but
                        could not find anything suitable in respect of steam locos. All failed either
                        on wheelbase or on wheel size. We can get wheels made to order at quite
                        reasonable prices so it seems more sensible for steam locomotives for it to
                        be a complete kit.

                        Diesels might be a different matter with some very good HO/OO diesel shunter
                        models available.

                        Regards,

                        Joseph

                        PS: Next exhibition of interest to NG modellers, Versailles (5ème Régiment du
                        Génie), 9/10 June. 


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                      • ScaleLinkDG@aol.com
                        Dans un courrier daté du 20/04/01 00:34:24 Paris, Madrid (heure d été), fvtavernier@club-internet.fr a écrit :
                        Message 11 of 17 , Apr 19, 2001
                          Dans un courrier daté du 20/04/01 00:34:24 Paris, Madrid (heure d'été),
                          fvtavernier@... a écrit :

                          << The Deutz preserved by the Frankfurt Museum is a Deutz OMZ 117, and not a
                          PME 117.

                          According to the http://www.Lokhersteller.de site, 6 museums preserved a
                          Deutz PME 117.

                          Two of them are private. I sent e-mail to two other museums of which I could
                          find their address e-mail, last 9 April:

                          a.. The museum Industribaneklubben Hedehusene IBK "M9" in Denmark
                          b.. The museum Golden Valley Light Railway " furious " in England
                          >>

                          Sorry about my confusion. As I posted earlier the amazing variety of loco
                          manufacturers and types is pretty daunting to any newcomer. When,
                          additionally, many of the manufacturers were making copies (either under
                          licence or unauthorised) of other firms' designs, it all gets very
                          complicated indeed.

                          Have not heard of this Golden Valley Light Railway before. If anyone has more
                          details, I will try to visit during my next trip to the UK (June).

                          Cheers,

                          Joseph
                        • Andreas Borrmann
                          Dear all, I take some some photos from the Deutz OMZ 117 at the Feldbahnmuseum in Frankfurt. You ll find them at the file section (folder: Deutz - OMZ 117).
                          Message 12 of 17 , Apr 19, 2001
                            Dear all,
                            I take some some photos from the Deutz OMZ 117 at the Feldbahnmuseum
                            in Frankfurt. You'll find them at the file section (folder: Deutz -
                            OMZ 117).

                            Best regards
                            Andreas

                            --- In FS32NGModelrail@y..., "Franck Tavernier" <fvtavernier@c...>
                            wrote:
                            > Hi Joseph,
                            >
                            > The Deutz preserved by the Frankfurt Museum is a Deutz OMZ 117, and
                            not a PME 117.
                            >
                            > According to the http://www.Lokhersteller.de site, 6 museums
                            preserved a Deutz PME 117.
                            >
                            > Two of them are private. I sent e-mail to two other museums of
                            which I could find their address e-mail, last 9 April:
                            >
                            > a.. The museum Industribaneklubben Hedehusene IBK "M9" in
                            Denmark
                            > b.. The museum Golden Valley Light Railway " furious " in
                            England
                            >
                            >
                            > I always await an answer.
                            >
                            > Have fun,
                            >
                            > Franck Tavernier.
                            >
                            > Athies, France.
                            >
                            > ----- Original Message -----
                            > From: ScaleLinkDG@a...
                            > To: FS32NGModelrail@y...
                            > Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2001 9:21 AM
                            > Subject: Re: [FS32NGModelrail] Re: Drawings and Photos wanted /
                            Deutz OMZ 122 Drawings
                            >
                            >
                            > Dans un courrier daté du 07/04/01 23:11:18 Paris, Madrid (heure
                            d'été),
                            > mikesouth@h... a écrit :
                            >
                            > << Franck Tavernier initially wrote:-
                            >
                            > "I'm in search of photos and drawings on the Deutz PME 117"
                            >
                            > And then Arnoud Bongaards, Michel Massot, Joseph @ 'Scale Link',
                            Gerrit
                            > Van Roy and Evan James all made useful follow-up postings.
                            >
                            > So here is where I demonstrate for all to see my abysmal
                            ignorance of
                            > most 'Continental' narrow gauge diesel locomotives... >>
                            >
                            > It's a subject that I have only recently got involved in and I
                            feel the same
                            > way. There are just so many variants and so many manufacturers.
                            >
                            > One recent posting mentioned the Frankfurt Feldbahnmuseum. At the
                            recent
                            > Paris show (from which I returned yesterday), another standholder
                            showed me
                            > the museum's handbook. This contains a simple drawing of a Deutz
                            117. Is this
                            > the one that Franck is looking for?
                            >
                            > While in Paris, also had long discussions about possible future
                            projects. All
                            > the recent postings (during my stay in Paris) give plenty of food
                            for thought.
                            >
                            > Early conclusion is that ScaleLink as such (and I will not bore
                            you all here
                            > with the intricacies of the various companies) will continue to
                            concentrate
                            > on its high-quality range of 1914-18 war locomotives and rolling
                            stock. The
                            > Péchot was received enthusiastically at Paris and will be
                            followed by another
                            > loco (internal combustion) later this year and, hopefully, some
                            more wagons
                            >
                            > Under some other label (probably my own, EMP), we will try to
                            launch some
                            > smaller, simpler locos and rolling stock, perhaps in 1:35 rather
                            than 9mm/ft.
                            > Given the present workload on HO products, nothing is likely to
                            appear before
                            > 1992 but some preliminary work will be done before then.
                            >
                            > We looked through the catalogues of all the HO mainstream
                            manufacturers but
                            > could not find anything suitable in respect of steam locos. All
                            failed either
                            > on wheelbase or on wheel size. We can get wheels made to order at
                            quite
                            > reasonable prices so it seems more sensible for steam locomotives
                            for it to
                            > be a complete kit.
                            >
                            > Diesels might be a different matter with some very good HO/OO
                            diesel shunter
                            > models available.
                            >
                            > Regards,
                            >
                            > Joseph
                            >
                            > PS: Next exhibition of interest to NG modellers, Versailles (5ème
                            Régiment du
                            > Génie), 9/10 June.
                            >
                            > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Community email addresses:
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                            > Subscribe: FS32NGModelrail-subscribe@onelist.com
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                            > Shortcut URL to this page:
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                            >
                            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                            Service.
                          • Claus Nielsen
                            Hi Franck I m a member of the danish Industrial Railway Society (Industribaneklubben) and active at the museums railway. The Deutz-loco (10204/1931) has since
                            Message 13 of 17 , Apr 20, 2001
                              Hi Franck

                              I'm a member of the danish Industrial Railway Society (Industribaneklubben)
                              and active at the museums railway.

                              The Deutz-loco (10204/1931) has since changed number and is now M 40. The
                              loco is in working condition, but unfortunately not with it's original
                              engine. It is now equipped with a two cylinder Ruston & Hornsby.

                              Is it photos you need, the main dimensions or a complete drawing. Let me
                              know I will try to help. I suppose you have mailed post@... already? You
                              will probably not get a quick answer, but you should hear from us sooner or
                              later.

                              But let me know your needs - I will try to help.

                              Regards

                              Claus.
                            • Franck Tavernier
                              Hi Claus, Guy s, First, thank you very much for your mail. I actually sent e-mail to the address, which you indicate, but without response until now. You will
                              Message 14 of 17 , Apr 20, 2001

                                Hi Claus, Guy's,

                                First, thank you very much for your mail.

                                I actually sent e-mail to the address, which you indicate, but without response until now. You will find attached a copy of this mail.

                                In fact, I seek especially photographs of the Deutz PME 117. If it's possible, could you do photographs of the model on front view, back view, side view, and in particular the plate manufacturer and the gearbox? Moreover, if you have complete drawings indeed it would be still better. However, if you do not have complete drawings it is not serious. Main dimensions will be enough. I have a simplified drawing of the Pétolat built under Deutz licence of PME 117. Nevertheless, I always have a small doubt about the exactitude of construction by Pétolat.

                                In advance thank you very much.

                                Franck Tavernier;

                                Athies, France.

                                ----- Original Message -----

                                From: "Franck Tavernier" <fvtavernier@...>

                                To: <post@...>

                                Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 9:45 PM

                                Subject: Deutz PME 117 F Photos


                                > Hi guy's,
                                >
                                > I'm in search of photos of the Deutz PME 117 F to build a model in 1:35
                                > scale. I have seen on the Lokhersteller.de site that you have a model of it
                                > since 1982. It's the N° M40, build Nr 10204.
                                >
                                > Could you possibly help me?
                                >
                                > Thanks in advance.
                                >
                                > Have fun,
                                >
                                > Franck Tavernier,
                                >
                                > Athies, France.

                                ----- Original Message -----
                                Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 9:10 AM
                                Subject: [FS32NGModelrail] Re: Drawings and Photos wanted / Deutz OMZ 122 Drawings

                                Hi Franck

                                I'm a member of the danish Industrial Railway Society (Industribaneklubben)
                                and active at the museums railway.

                                The Deutz-loco (10204/1931) has since changed number and is now M 40. The
                                loco is in working condition, but unfortunately not with it's original
                                engine. It is now equipped with a two cylinder Ruston & Hornsby.

                                Is it photos you need, the main dimensions or a complete drawing. Let me
                                know I will try to help. I suppose you have mailed post@... already? You
                                will probably not get a quick answer, but you should hear from us sooner or
                                later.

                                But let me know your needs - I will try to help.

                                Regards

                                Claus.




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