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Re: UL: New member- wanting info on registration and insurance- quicksilver mxl 2 sport

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  • Richard Williams
    Bob, I think FAR 91.319(a)(2) applies to this discussion. Aircraft having experimental certificates; operating limitations (a) No person may operate an
    Message 1 of 19 , Apr 9 8:45 PM
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      Bob,

      I think FAR 91.319(a)(2) applies to this discussion.

      Aircraft having experimental certificates; operating limitations
      (a) No person may operate an aircraft that has an experimental certificate--
      (2) Carrying Persons or property for compensation or hire.

      Since the instructor is 'for hire', this is forbidden.

      and FAR 91.319(e)(2) does not apply since this is after January 31, 2010.

      Now, it is possible to apply FAR 91.319(h),(Letter of deviation authority)
      to allow the instructor to be compensated for the training.

      I have read that LDAs are not being written as they would (for instance) allow a
      CFI to train in their (or their students) grandfathered ELSA.

      R. Williams


      ---------- Original Message -----------
      From: Bob Comperini <bob@...>
      To: FLY-UL@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Tue, 09 Apr 2013 19:09:44 -0700
      Subject: Re: UL: New member- wanting info on registration and insurance-
      quicksilver mxl 2 sport

      > >
      > >The way I read the FARs, an instructor cannot charge for instruction in an
      > >'experimental' anything except while teaching the owner of the experimental.
      >
      > Show me what reg says that. I can borrow your experimental and train
      > someone else in it, if I want. Yes, there is a line that shouldn't be
      > crossed. For example, if I'm an instructor and "wink wink" my time is
      > $150 per hour, but my friend will let you "borrow" his plane, then yes,
      > I'm crossing a line of "commercial use of an experimental".
      >
      > >Please refer me to the appropriate FAR that says otherwise.
      >
      > I can't refer you to a reg that doesn't exist. You refer me to one
      > that prohibits what I'm saying.
      >
      > --
      > Bob Comperini
      > e-mail: bob@...
      > WWW: http://www.fly-ul.com
      ------- End of Original Message -------
    • Bob Comperini
      ... Yup.. And flight instruction is NOT carrying people or property for hire. Not the same thing! ... Wrong. Not the same thing. ... You are mis reading
      Message 2 of 19 , Apr 9 9:01 PM
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        On 08:45 PM 4/9/2013, Richard Williams wrote:
        >Bob,
        >
        >I think FAR 91.319(a)(2) applies to this discussion.
        >
        >Aircraft having experimental certificates; operating limitations
        >(a) No person may operate an aircraft that has an experimental certificate--
        >(2) Carrying Persons or property for compensation or hire.

        Yup.. And flight instruction is NOT carrying people or property for hire. Not the same thing!



        >Since the instructor is 'for hire', this is forbidden.

        Wrong. Not the same thing.



        >and FAR 91.319(e)(2) does not apply since this is after January 31, 2010.

        You are mis reading (e)(2)... (e)(2) talks about being compensated for USING THE PLANE. In other words, airplane rental. (e)(2) is not limiting a CFI's ability to be compensated for HIS/HER time.


        >I have read that LDAs are not being written as they would (for instance) allow a
        >CFI to train in their (or their students) grandfathered ELSA.

        The LODA guidance is supposed to be issued to a particular AIRCRAFT, not instructor... and that aircraft is supposed to be the one that same instructor owned and had used as a trainer before, so yes, you're correct (assuming these idiot FSDOs are following the STUPID Loda guidance as written)

        --
        Bob Comperini
        e-mail: bob@...
        WWW: http://www.fly-ul.com
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