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Re: John Williamson

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  • Wade Walker
    Well said Capt. It certainly appears that the ones who get in trouble are basically doing something they shouldn t be doing. Having said that, part of the
    Message 1 of 10 , Jun 2, 2008
      Well said Capt. It certainly appears that the ones who get in trouble
      are basically doing something they shouldn't be doing. Having said
      that, part of the fun of flying is doing exactly what I just said and
      I am just as guilty as anyone else. How many times have we all fallen
      into that trap of zooming down low skirting the fields or just to wave
      at interested on lookers and while most wouldn't admit it, just
      wanting to say "Hey, look at me having a ball - wish you were here."

      My condolences go out to the Williamson family and friends. My
      prayers are with you!

      --- In FLY-UL@yahoogroups.com, "captaineqs" <graphotypist@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > This just goes to remind us that it doesn't matter how many hours in
      > your log, the only one that counts is the one you're flying RIGHT NOW.
      > John wasn't a newbie, he probably wouldn't have made a newbie
      > mistake, but something reached up and grabbed him despite all of his
      > experience.
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > --- In FLY-UL@yahoogroups.com, "dflyingmoose_99" <dflyinmoose@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Copied from the Kolb List....
      > >
      > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
      > > Kolbers,
      > >
      > > It is with a heavy heart that I must inform you that John
      > > Williamson, Kolb Kolbra, N49KK crashed and was killed just before 10
      > > AM local time, Sunday, May 25th at the Skinner Ranch Airport (12OR),
      > > Jordan Valley, Oregon. (Skyvector Link: http://skyvector.com/#35-9-3-
      > > 5601-1393)
      > >
      > > From information relayed from the remote area by the investigating
      > > Sherriff, John was flying with two other airplanes. The other two
      > > planes landed and were going to take pictures as John did a fly-by.
      > > As he flew by in a sharp bank, something happened and he went down.
      > >
      > > It is almost certain that he did not suffer.
      > >
      > > All this information is very preliminary and the only thing certain
      > > is that we lost a friend.
      > >
      > > I am John's flying buddy here in Arlington and am trying my best to
      > > help the family thru this tragedy. I was unaware of who was
      > > accompanying John after the Monument Valley weekend, so if any of
      > > you know who the other two planes and pilots might be, please relay
      > > any contact information you may have to me.
      > >
      > > I will keep you all posted as new information presents itself and
      > > will advise you of funeral arrangements when they are final.
      > >
      > > John was a really good guy and I am going to miss him.
      > >
      > > Ken Korenek
      > > Arlington, Texas
      > > 817-657-6500? cell
      > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
      > >
      > > I found out about this from Arty Trost last night. He was flying
      > > with John Hauck and I think Larry Cottrell. I met John at the MV
      > > kolb fly-in 2007. A gentlemen, many hour pilot, and had a
      > > meticulously built Kolbra with 912S.
      > >
      > > Arty had a few details....flying low, wing tipped, went into
      > > severely jagged lava type rock. John and John had been to the
      > > Monument Valley and Brian Ranch fly-ins.
      > >
      > > Low and slow IS what it's cracked up to be, just be selective on
      > > where and when you do it. John paid the ultimate price for his love
      > > of flying. Condolences to his family.
      > >
      > > -moose
      > >
      >
    • lucien stavenhagen
      ... The only info we have right now is the prelim. NTSB report, as I don t think any of the others who were there have said anything yet (except perhaps to
      Message 2 of 10 , Jun 2, 2008
        --- In FLY-UL@yahoogroups.com, "Wade Walker" <walkman88us@...> wrote:
        >
        > Well said Capt. It certainly appears that the ones who get in trouble
        > are basically doing something they shouldn't be doing. Having said
        > that, part of the fun of flying is doing exactly what I just said and
        > I am just as guilty as anyone else. How many times have we all fallen
        > into that trap of zooming down low skirting the fields or just to wave
        > at interested on lookers and while most wouldn't admit it, just
        > wanting to say "Hey, look at me having a ball - wish you were here."
        >
        > My condolences go out to the Williamson family and friends. My
        > prayers are with you!

        The only info we have right now is the prelim. NTSB report, as I don't
        think any of the others who were there have said anything yet (except
        perhaps to other individuals). I havn't seen anything on the Kolb list
        yet either.

        So we should be cautious not to "armchair pilot" the accident as we
        don't know what happened to John and possibly never will - there're
        any number of reasons he ended up in the attitude he was in.....

        Now, as for the topic of low flying, I've never been able to develop a
        taste for low flying over anything of any kind. I flew low once or
        twice over a nearby field in my ultralight years ago and it left me
        completely cold. In my PPC I did it some more but never could get into
        it.....

        Can't explain it, I just don't care for it....

        I've always been an altitude man for some reason, vastly preferring to
        be as high off the ground as I could possibly get. Even in the titan
        you'll find me right near the sprot limit of 10,000 MSL whenever
        possible......

        LS
      • Ralph
        As far as flying low, there is one way to do it safely and it s probably the safest way to fly. In the north country when the lakes freeze over, we can fly
        Message 3 of 10 , Jun 2, 2008
          As far as flying low, there is one way to do it safely and it's
          probably the safest way to fly. In the north country when the lakes
          freeze over, we can fly right on the deck just a few feet up. If
          anything were to happen like an engine failure, then we would land.
          This is the only time to fly extremely low. During the summer
          months, we fly at least 500' up. If you're not used to flying low
          like that, you might forget you have wings while trying to bank and
          then it's over.

          Ralph

          --- In FLY-UL@yahoogroups.com, "lucien stavenhagen"
          <lstavenhagen@...> wrote:
          >
          > --- In FLY-UL@yahoogroups.com, "Wade Walker" <walkman88us@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Well said Capt. It certainly appears that the ones who get in
          trouble
          > > are basically doing something they shouldn't be doing. Having
          said
          > > that, part of the fun of flying is doing exactly what I just
          said and
          > > I am just as guilty as anyone else. How many times have we all
          fallen
          > > into that trap of zooming down low skirting the fields or just
          to wave
          > > at interested on lookers and while most wouldn't admit it, just
          > > wanting to say "Hey, look at me having a ball - wish you were
          here."
          > >
          > > My condolences go out to the Williamson family and friends. My
          > > prayers are with you!
          >
          > The only info we have right now is the prelim. NTSB report, as I
          don't
          > think any of the others who were there have said anything yet
          (except
          > perhaps to other individuals). I havn't seen anything on the Kolb
          list
          > yet either.
          >
          > So we should be cautious not to "armchair pilot" the accident as we
          > don't know what happened to John and possibly never will - there're
          > any number of reasons he ended up in the attitude he was in.....
          >
          > Now, as for the topic of low flying, I've never been able to
          develop a
          > taste for low flying over anything of any kind. I flew low once or
          > twice over a nearby field in my ultralight years ago and it left me
          > completely cold. In my PPC I did it some more but never could get
          into
          > it.....
          >
          > Can't explain it, I just don't care for it....
          >
          > I've always been an altitude man for some reason, vastly
          preferring to
          > be as high off the ground as I could possibly get. Even in the
          titan
          > you'll find me right near the sprot limit of 10,000 MSL whenever
          > possible......
          >
          > LS
          >
        • David A. Bottomley
          I like it right about 5 AGL. Not sure how anyone can stand 10,000 without heat, geez. Not to mention the ground doesn t move at all at that altitude, plus
          Message 4 of 10 , Jun 2, 2008
            I like it right about 5' AGL. Not sure how anyone can stand 10,000' without
            heat, geez. Not to mention the ground doesn't move at all at that altitude,
            plus it takes forever to get there. It's just no fun up there.



            David A. Bottomley

            <http://david.bottomley.us> http://david.bottomley.us



            From: FLY-UL@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FLY-UL@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
            Ralph
            Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 7:22 PM
            To: FLY-UL@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: UL: Re: John Williamson



            As far as flying low, there is one way to do it safely and it's
            probably the safest way to fly. In the north country when the lakes
            freeze over, we can fly right on the deck just a few feet up. If
            anything were to happen like an engine failure, then we would land.
            This is the only time to fly extremely low. During the summer
            months, we fly at least 500' up. If you're not used to flying low
            like that, you might forget you have wings while trying to bank and
            then it's over.

            Ralph

            --- In FLY-UL@yahoogroups.com <mailto:FLY-UL%40yahoogroups.com> , "lucien
            stavenhagen"
            <lstavenhagen@...> wrote:
            >
            > --- In FLY-UL@yahoogroups.com <mailto:FLY-UL%40yahoogroups.com> , "Wade
            Walker" <walkman88us@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Well said Capt. It certainly appears that the ones who get in
            trouble
            > > are basically doing something they shouldn't be doing. Having
            said
            > > that, part of the fun of flying is doing exactly what I just
            said and
            > > I am just as guilty as anyone else. How many times have we all
            fallen
            > > into that trap of zooming down low skirting the fields or just
            to wave
            > > at interested on lookers and while most wouldn't admit it, just
            > > wanting to say "Hey, look at me having a ball - wish you were
            here."
            > >
            > > My condolences go out to the Williamson family and friends. My
            > > prayers are with you!
            >
            > The only info we have right now is the prelim. NTSB report, as I
            don't
            > think any of the others who were there have said anything yet
            (except
            > perhaps to other individuals). I havn't seen anything on the Kolb
            list
            > yet either.
            >
            > So we should be cautious not to "armchair pilot" the accident as we
            > don't know what happened to John and possibly never will - there're
            > any number of reasons he ended up in the attitude he was in.....
            >
            > Now, as for the topic of low flying, I've never been able to
            develop a
            > taste for low flying over anything of any kind. I flew low once or
            > twice over a nearby field in my ultralight years ago and it left me
            > completely cold. In my PPC I did it some more but never could get
            into
            > it.....
            >
            > Can't explain it, I just don't care for it....
            >
            > I've always been an altitude man for some reason, vastly
            preferring to
            > be as high off the ground as I could possibly get. Even in the
            titan
            > you'll find me right near the sprot limit of 10,000 MSL whenever
            > possible......
            >
            > LS
            >





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • lucien stavenhagen
            ... without ... altitude, ... You say that it takes forever like that s a bad thing........ as mark smith would say, I m where I m want to be as soon as the
            Message 5 of 10 , Jun 2, 2008
              --- In FLY-UL@yahoogroups.com, "David A. Bottomley" <david-list@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > I like it right about 5' AGL. Not sure how anyone can stand 10,000'
              without
              > heat, geez. Not to mention the ground doesn't move at all at that
              altitude,
              > plus it takes forever to get there. It's just no fun up there.
              >

              You say that it takes forever like that's a bad thing........ as mark
              smith would say, I'm where I'm want to be as soon as the wheels leave
              the ground, why would I want that time spent there to be shorter?......
              It's like the guys who spend all the extra money for a faster plane to
              get where they're going faster.... as if they want to be back on the
              ground sooner!, if that's the case why fly?........

              Part of the fun of it is the trip up - in my Super years ago, it'd
              take 1/2 hour or more to get to the altitude I wanted to go to. That
              was sometimes about 6000' AGL which was pushing the ceiling of the
              plane at that time.

              Where I live now 10,000 MSL is only about 3000' AGL, also the titan is
              a far better climber than my other planes were mostly due to it being
              fairly overpowered with the 100hp motor and fitted with the larger 26'
              wing. Still does 600 to 700 fpm at 10,000.... but again I normally am
              in no rush........

              Over the same ground, the view never changes and it gets boring after
              the umpteenth time. But up above it changes every time, new clouds,
              etc.......... I think that's why I like it up there, it's like
              visiting a new world every time I go up.....

              LS

              >
              >
              > David A. Bottomley
              >
              > <http://david.bottomley.us> http://david.bottomley.us
              >
              >
              >
              > From: FLY-UL@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FLY-UL@yahoogroups.com] On
              Behalf Of
              > Ralph
              > Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 7:22 PM
              > To: FLY-UL@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: UL: Re: John Williamson
              >
              >
              >
              > As far as flying low, there is one way to do it safely and it's
              > probably the safest way to fly. In the north country when the lakes
              > freeze over, we can fly right on the deck just a few feet up. If
              > anything were to happen like an engine failure, then we would land.
              > This is the only time to fly extremely low. During the summer
              > months, we fly at least 500' up. If you're not used to flying low
              > like that, you might forget you have wings while trying to bank and
              > then it's over.
              >
              > Ralph
              >
              > --- In FLY-UL@yahoogroups.com <mailto:FLY-UL%40yahoogroups.com> ,
              "lucien
              > stavenhagen"
              > <lstavenhagen@> wrote:
              > >
              > > --- In FLY-UL@yahoogroups.com <mailto:FLY-UL%40yahoogroups.com> ,
              "Wade
              > Walker" <walkman88us@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > Well said Capt. It certainly appears that the ones who get in
              > trouble
              > > > are basically doing something they shouldn't be doing. Having
              > said
              > > > that, part of the fun of flying is doing exactly what I just
              > said and
              > > > I am just as guilty as anyone else. How many times have we all
              > fallen
              > > > into that trap of zooming down low skirting the fields or just
              > to wave
              > > > at interested on lookers and while most wouldn't admit it, just
              > > > wanting to say "Hey, look at me having a ball - wish you were
              > here."
              > > >
              > > > My condolences go out to the Williamson family and friends. My
              > > > prayers are with you!
              > >
              > > The only info we have right now is the prelim. NTSB report, as I
              > don't
              > > think any of the others who were there have said anything yet
              > (except
              > > perhaps to other individuals). I havn't seen anything on the Kolb
              > list
              > > yet either.
              > >
              > > So we should be cautious not to "armchair pilot" the accident as we
              > > don't know what happened to John and possibly never will - there're
              > > any number of reasons he ended up in the attitude he was in.....
              > >
              > > Now, as for the topic of low flying, I've never been able to
              > develop a
              > > taste for low flying over anything of any kind. I flew low once or
              > > twice over a nearby field in my ultralight years ago and it left me
              > > completely cold. In my PPC I did it some more but never could get
              > into
              > > it.....
              > >
              > > Can't explain it, I just don't care for it....
              > >
              > > I've always been an altitude man for some reason, vastly
              > preferring to
              > > be as high off the ground as I could possibly get. Even in the
              > titan
              > > you'll find me right near the sprot limit of 10,000 MSL whenever
              > > possible......
              > >
              > > LS
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • Dan Grunloh
              ... Here in the Illinois you can fly for miles at very low altitude in the spring before the crops are up. The land is very flat there are few trees and most
              Message 6 of 10 , Jun 3, 2008
                --- In FLY-UL@yahoogroups.com, "Ralph" <rstar447@...> wrote:
                >
                > As far as flying low, there is one way to do it safely and it's
                > probably the safest way to fly. In the north country when the lakes
                > freeze over, we can fly right on the deck just a few feet up. If
                > anything were to happen like an engine failure, then we would land.
                > This is the only time to fly extremely low. During the summer
                > months, we fly at least 500' up. If you're not used to flying low
                > like that, you might forget you have wings while trying to bank and
                > then it's over.
                >
                > Ralph

                Here in the Illinois you can fly for miles at very low altitude
                in the spring before the crops are up. The land is very flat
                there are few trees and most fences have been removed because
                the farmers don't keep livestock anymore. It's that way in
                Illinois right now. There are powerlines every mile or so.
                About 20 feet up is very nice and fun but when the corn is tall
                I want 1000ft, 500ft is not enough to ensure you can glide to
                the next road.

                When making a forced landing in tall corn take note of where
                you are located. A friend once went down and didn't know
                which way to walk to get out. He wandered around the field
                for some time in 100 degree heat.

                Also for the sake of your friends who will help retrieve the
                plane, try crashing near a road please.

                --Dan



                >
                > --- In FLY-UL@yahoogroups.com, "lucien stavenhagen"
                > <lstavenhagen@> wrote:
                > >
                > > --- In FLY-UL@yahoogroups.com, "Wade Walker" <walkman88us@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > Well said Capt. It certainly appears that the ones who get in
                > trouble
                > > > are basically doing something they shouldn't be doing. Having
                > said
                > > > that, part of the fun of flying is doing exactly what I just
                > said and
                > > > I am just as guilty as anyone else. How many times have we all
                > fallen
                > > > into that trap of zooming down low skirting the fields or just
                > to wave
                > > > at interested on lookers and while most wouldn't admit it, just
                > > > wanting to say "Hey, look at me having a ball - wish you were
                > here."
                > > >
                > > > My condolences go out to the Williamson family and friends. My
                > > > prayers are with you!
                > >
                > > The only info we have right now is the prelim. NTSB report, as I
                > don't
                > > think any of the others who were there have said anything yet
                > (except
                > > perhaps to other individuals). I havn't seen anything on the Kolb
                > list
                > > yet either.
                > >
                > > So we should be cautious not to "armchair pilot" the accident as we
                > > don't know what happened to John and possibly never will - there're
                > > any number of reasons he ended up in the attitude he was in.....
                > >
                > > Now, as for the topic of low flying, I've never been able to
                > develop a
                > > taste for low flying over anything of any kind. I flew low once or
                > > twice over a nearby field in my ultralight years ago and it left me
                > > completely cold. In my PPC I did it some more but never could get
                > into
                > > it.....
                > >
                > > Can't explain it, I just don't care for it....
                > >
                > > I've always been an altitude man for some reason, vastly
                > preferring to
                > > be as high off the ground as I could possibly get. Even in the
                > titan
                > > you'll find me right near the sprot limit of 10,000 MSL whenever
                > > possible......
                > >
                > > LS
                > >
                >
              • Jay D
                Very sound advise. Being from TN, and the TN landscape (trees and hills) I was amazed at the countryside layout of Indiana and Illinois as I flew to Oshkosh.
                Message 7 of 10 , Jun 3, 2008
                  Very sound advise.

                  Being from TN, and the TN landscape (trees and hills) I was amazed at
                  the countryside layout of Indiana and Illinois as I flew to Oshkosh. All
                  the fields seems to be in a grid. Roads were about 1 mile apart in a
                  perfect square everywhere. Flat as far as the eye can see. It would be
                  easy to get turned around there. It all looks the same. Here you have
                  the option of flying over the valleys, even though they are not
                  necessarily going in your exact direction, they hopping over a ridge to
                  get over a different valley. The valleys are nice because they are
                  usually developed into farm land, being some of the flattest land
                  around., and usually where most people build houses. There is usually a
                  road thru the valleys. You can always fly straight to a destination with
                  compass or gps and forget about emergency landing spots. I guess this is
                  why I can't get many flying buddies to travel xcountry around here. They
                  like the idea of a planned emergency field, so they stay around the
                  patch. Most of the grass airstrips around here don't have a good
                  emergency landing spot, but I guess that they figure is they are close
                  to home that they can walk home if needed?

                  The time I am most vulnerable is when I am flying in gusty windy
                  conditions. An engine out over hilly trees in a light airplane in high
                  gusty, windy conditions makes the pucker factor go WAY up when the big
                  fan quits cooling you!

                  Jay

                  -----------------------


                  Dan Grunloh wrote:
                  >
                  > --- In FLY-UL@yahoogroups.com <mailto:FLY-UL%40yahoogroups.com>,
                  > "Ralph" <rstar447@...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > As far as flying low, there is one way to do it safely and it's
                  > > probably the safest way to fly. In the north country when the lakes
                  > > freeze over, we can fly right on the deck just a few feet up. If
                  > > anything were to happen like an engine failure, then we would land.
                  > > This is the only time to fly extremely low. During the summer
                  > > months, we fly at least 500' up. If you're not used to flying low
                  > > like that, you might forget you have wings while trying to bank and
                  > > then it's over.
                  > >
                  > > Ralph
                  >
                  > Here in the Illinois you can fly for miles at very low altitude
                  > in the spring before the crops are up. The land is very flat
                  > there are few trees and most fences have been removed because
                  > the farmers don't keep livestock anymore. It's that way in
                  > Illinois right now. There are powerlines every mile or so.
                  > About 20 feet up is very nice and fun but when the corn is tall
                  > I want 1000ft, 500ft is not enough to ensure you can glide to
                  > the next road.
                  >
                  > When making a forced landing in tall corn take note of where
                  > you are located. A friend once went down and didn't know
                  > which way to walk to get out. He wandered around the field
                  > for some time in 100 degree heat.
                  >
                  > Also for the sake of your friends who will help retrieve the
                  > plane, try crashing near a road please.
                  >
                  > --Dan
                  >


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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