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Re: UL: Re: Quicksilver info needed.

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  • Mark Smith
    ... The strusture doesn t need much improving, but a few things come to mind. quicksilver has used small diameter wire, 3/32 for upper wires for many years.
    Message 1 of 6 , Aug 1, 2002
      bczygan wrote:
      >
      > Thank You Spydie,
      > I feel like I've hit the mother lode. I'm not being a wise ass
      > either. Let's start by my admitting that I know nothing so anything
      > you tell me will be new. And that's the audience I want this info
      > for. You and Mark and Me are mortal but the Quick and improved
      > versions will be around awhile. Whoever gets my plane a few guys
      > down the line should benifit from past wisdom. Yes, I know it's a
      > lot of work but people like me will learn from you right now and
      > whatever you type will be available for a long time for others. So I
      > appreciate anything you can share and I agree we can go at this step
      > by step.
      >
      > Lets start with wings. I've got an MXIIA I'm rebuilding. It has
      > recent sails. What is there to look for or improve in the wing
      > structure?
      >
      > Bill Czygan

      The strusture doesn't need much improving, but a few things come to
      mind.

      quicksilver has used small diameter wire, 3/32 for upper wires for many
      years. The only plane with 1/8 diameter upper wing wires was the MX
      Super.

      Wire bracing is perhaps the strongest structure ever designed for wing
      supports relative to the weight required.

      The complete wire set weighs less than one strut on the newly designed
      sport 2S, not to mention the extremely heavy design required for the
      spars, increaseed diameters, and the extra tubing required to act as
      anti drag support internally.

      But when small wires are used, the wing can drag bak at higher speeds,
      amking for reduced aerodynamic configuration.

      This can easily be seen when flying above and behind another stock MX,
      and watching the upper wires with large sweeping looseness in them.

      The upper wires must act in unison with the lower wires, to pull , yes
      pull since you can NOT push on a wire, the wing through the air.

      As the vertical load on the rear wires increases , these wires pull the
      wing down and forward since they have a larger angle than the front
      wires with the root tube, and as the wing moves forward, the upper wires
      become loose.

      This is the reason for the antidrag wires on the two place models, and
      eventually on all the models.

      As I have studied the wire support designon the quicks over the years, I
      have more and more admiration for the original designers of the first
      weightshift gliders. The choice of tribar positions, the location of the
      top of the kingpost, all make some really good sense.

      On a similar note, I have seen some disasters on what might be
      consdiered copies of the quick maybe clones, or even the ripsilvers as
      many were named.

      Small changes in tribar position can greatly affect the wires and their
      movements under loads. Many of the clones started when the company
      actually bought weightshift kits from quicksilver, and modified them by
      adding landing gear and engines. These btands enjoyed the good design of
      the quicks. Others such as wizard, macs chose to start from scratch, and
      thus did not have the benefit of the integrity of the quicksilver
      choices for the wired design.

      The wizard stayed with 1 inch compression struts long after quicksilver
      started reinforcing them for the high compression loads they see in high
      G maneuvers. I don't think the wizard ever did get larger struts or even
      sleeving as they went out of business.

      Some examples of poor design I see now and then might be the freebird
      model that still has 1 inch compression struts and a strut supported
      wing. Surely the two struts which concentrate the wing support loads at
      just one compression strut, make the compression loads on that single
      compression strut higher than the loads on the multiple compression
      struts on the wire braced design.

      A friend is working to fix a freebird right now that is an example of
      the poorest construction I have seen for a long time. Other freebird
      models have been sold due to realizing the lack of solid contruction
      designs and materials.

      The side by side model has the cheesiest design for pedals I have ever
      seen in my worst nightmare. azusa gokart pedal connected by a small
      diameter rod. The flewx of the rod from one side of the cockpit to the
      other makes the pedal not connected to the rudder cable all but
      worthless due to twisting of the small rod. I use a 1 inch chro moly
      tube. They used a 5/16 diameter rod. The difference in stiffness may
      mean life and death to someone trying to operate the pedals from one
      seat or the other.

      I have digressed from the quicksilver wing question, I'll quit !





      --


      Mark Smith
      Tri-State Kite Sales http://www.trikite.com
      1121 N Locust St
      Mt Vernon, IN 47620 mailto:mark@...
      1-812-838-6351
    • Mark Smith
      ... Bill , you really need to make a trip down here,,,,,,,,,, where all this stuff is available to see and fly,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,mark -- Mark Smith Tri-State Kite
      Message 2 of 6 , Aug 1, 2002
        bczygan wrote:
        >
        > --- In FLY-UL@y..., "spdrflyr" <spdrflyr@e...> wrote:
        > Now for the ailerons...mount up a set of
        > > "outboard " "shorties". ..and use a single push pull rod to
        > actuate the outboard bellcrank...which reminds me, an additional
        > compression strut will be mounted into the wing to carry the aileron
        > bellcrank hardware...this location also supports an additional
        > diagonal cable wing brace. ...see what I mean? this can go on and
        > on and on. I researched this information for over a year before I
        > turned one single bolt...and even then, I didn't really have it
        > down, by a long shot, until I built one from scratch.
        >
        > Spydie,
        >
        > The Ailerons interest me very much. What size tubes (OD and wall)?
        > And what are the measurements and layout you'd use for an MXIIA? How
        > do they attach to the existing wing and does the existing wing need
        > any reinforcement for them and the additional loads they will impose?
        >
        > Bill Czygan

        Bill , you really need to make a trip down here,,,,,,,,,,

        where all this stuff is available to see and fly,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,mark

        --


        Mark Smith
        Tri-State Kite Sales http://www.trikite.com
        1121 N Locust St
        Mt Vernon, IN 47620 mailto:mark@...
        1-812-838-6351
      • bczygan
        Mark, I warned you last year that an invite such as you make below could become all too real for you!!! In fact I have half a mind (most people say I DO have
        Message 3 of 6 , Aug 1, 2002
          Mark,
          I warned you last year that an invite such as you make below could
          become all too real for you!!! In fact I have half a mind (most
          people say I DO have half a mind) to take you up on it. How would
          the first day or so in Sep be? I've got an Airstream trailer to stay
          in. Whaddya say?

          Bill


          --- In FLY-UL@y..., Mark Smith <mark@t...> wrote:
          > bczygan wrote:

          > >
          > > The Ailerons interest me very much. What size tubes (OD and
          wall)?
          > > And what are the measurements and layout you'd use for an MXIIA?
          How
          > > do they attach to the existing wing and does the existing wing
          need
          > > any reinforcement for them and the additional loads they will
          impose?
          > >
          > > Bill Czygan
          >
          > Bill , you really need to make a trip down here,,,,,,,,,,
          >
          > where all this stuff is available to see and
          fly,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,mark
          >
          > --
          >
          >
          > Mark Smith
          > Tri-State Kite Sales http://www.trikite.com
          > 1121 N Locust St
          > Mt Vernon, IN 47620 mailto:mark@t...
          > 1-812-838-6351
        • Steve Gould
          ... Heck, you can even get a Lakeside lot at Posey Patch.
          Message 4 of 6 , Aug 1, 2002
            bczygan wrote:
            >
            > Mark,
            > I warned you last year that an invite such as you make below could
            > become all too real for you!!! In fact I have half a mind (most
            > people say I DO have half a mind) to take you up on it. How would
            > the first day or so in Sep be? I've got an Airstream trailer to stay
            > in. Whaddya say?
            >
            > Bill

            Heck, you can even get a Lakeside lot at Posey Patch.
            ...I would suggest one not downrange from the Shootin' Range.

            > --- In FLY-UL@y..., Mark Smith <mark@t...> wrote:
            > > bczygan wrote:
            >
            > > >
            > > > The Ailerons interest me very much. What size tubes (OD and
            > wall)?
            > > > And what are the measurements and layout you'd use for an MXIIA?
            > How
            > > > do they attach to the existing wing and does the existing wing
            > need
            > > > any reinforcement for them and the additional loads they will
            > impose?
            > > >
            > > > Bill Czygan
            > >
            > > Bill , you really need to make a trip down here,,,,,,,,,,
            > >
            > > where all this stuff is available to see and
            > fly,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,mark
            > >
            > > --
            > >
            > >
            > > Mark Smith
            > > Tri-State Kite Sales http://www.trikite.com
            > > 1121 N Locust St
            > > Mt Vernon, IN 47620 mailto:mark@t...
            > > 1-812-838-6351
          • Mark Smith
            ... fine with me instruction is still the lowest in the country ar 55 per hour,,,,,,,,,,, and to do it in one of the best flying planes is a bonus ! -- Mark
            Message 5 of 6 , Aug 1, 2002
              bczygan wrote:
              >
              > Mark,
              > I warned you last year that an invite such as you make below could
              > become all too real for you!!! In fact I have half a mind (most
              > people say I DO have half a mind) to take you up on it. How would
              > the first day or so in Sep be? I've got an Airstream trailer to stay
              > in. Whaddya say?
              >
              > Bill

              fine with me

              instruction is still the lowest in the country ar 55 per hour,,,,,,,,,,,

              and to do it in one of the best flying planes is a bonus !

              --


              Mark Smith
              Tri-State Kite Sales http://www.trikite.com
              1121 N Locust St
              Mt Vernon, IN 47620 mailto:mark@...
              1-812-838-6351
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