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Re: [FJGRailroad] Weeds and Brush

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  • Randy & Lorraine Decker
    OK you guy s where was the FJ&G ash pit? I have seen photo s of the big wooden framework structure behind the freight office on the track near the creek? Was
    Message 1 of 14 , Mar 3, 2000
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      OK you guy's where was the FJ&G ash pit? I have seen photo's of the big
      wooden framework structure behind the freight office on the track near the
      creek? Was this some sort of an bucket hoist for the ashes? the ashes were
      spread out as an easy alternative to burying them or hauling them away!!
      They had a 20 mile long land fill!! I was also wondering if and where the
      RRhad their own stone crusher?? they had the stone at the quarry in
      Mayfield seems as though this was a big expence or did the Railroads not use
      the crushed stone untill much later?? I know Mr. DO must have hauled in
      thousands of tons of crused stone ballast when he used federal money to
      upgrade the railbed? hw much a part of the early railroad was this??
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Paul Charland <p.charlie@...>
      To: <FJGRailroad@onelist.com>
      Sent: Friday, March 03, 2000 8:00 AM
      Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Weeds and Brush


      > From: Paul Charland <p.charlie@...>
      >
      > Most large railways saved their ashes just for this purpose. The would
      collect
      > them in drop bottom gondolas, and them spread them on their tracks to keep
      down
      > and kill any vegetation along the line. If you've ever gone to somewhere
      were
      > they have pulled up the tracks years ago, you may find that they have
      scraped it
      > down to the cinder base, and nothing grows. CN Brockville is a fine
      example of
      > this. Across from the station, there was once a yard. It was pulled up
      in the
      > mid '70's and flattened to the cinder base, still today, no weeds, no
      nothing.
      >
      > Paul
      >
      > paul larner wrote:
      >
      > > From: "paul larner" <pklarner@...>
      > >
      > > I'll throw this out as it was given to me... I always thought the clean
      > > roadbeds of the steam days were the result of ample low priced manpower.
      I
      > > know the FJ&G had hand tools that you would use to weed the ballast
      (cinders
      > > for the most part and sand and poor gravel) not unlike hoeing a garden.
      > > Other roads used diskers, which were pulled behind a motor source and
      turned
      > > the outside ballast and helped keep a well dressed road bed. A friend of
      > > mine says it was largely due to the acidy character the soil took on
      from
      > > being exposed to coal soot and cinders that kept the weeds down. Sounds
      > > plausible but I had never heard that before. Any comments?
      > >
      > > PKL
      > >
      > > >From: "Saul Kalbfeld" <skalbfel@...>
      > > >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@onelist.com
      > > >To: FJGRailroad@onelist.com
      > > >Subject: [FJGRailroad] Weeds and Brush
      > > >Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 03:41:07 -0000
      > > >
      > > >As I look at the ICC photos it seems as if the railroad must have had
      > > >a pretty aggressive weed control program in the good old days. In
      > > >later years, the fifties and sixties, the tracks in the Gloversville
      > > >yard pretty much disappeared in the grass by August 1st. Did they
      > > >have their own weed sprayers or did they bring in a contractor to do
      > > >the job. I've seen pictures of some pretty elaborate weed spraying
      > > >cars.
      > > >Saul
      > > >
      > >
      > > ______________________________________________________
      > > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
      > >
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      > > Get a NextCard Visa, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as
      > > 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees.
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      > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
      > >
      > > Visit Gino's F.J.G.R.R. Page at
      > > http://www.capital.net/~dicarlos/
      >
      >
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      >
    • Randy & Lorraine Decker
      Whoop I just reread my message I did not mean thre RR owned the stone Quarry it was there I wondered if they had a contract for crused stone from the quarry
      Message 2 of 14 , Mar 3, 2000
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        Whoop I just reread my message I did not mean thre RR owned the stone Quarry
        it was there I wondered if they had a contract for crused stone from the
        quarry or else where. and the Ashes were the perfect answer to the weeds it
        was the byproduct of the land fill effect
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Randy & Lorraine Decker <rldecker@...>
        To: <FJGRailroad@onelist.com>
        Sent: Friday, March 03, 2000 10:03 AM
        Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Weeds and Brush


        > From: "Randy & Lorraine Decker" <rldecker@...>
        >
        > OK you guy's where was the FJ&G ash pit? I have seen photo's of the big
        > wooden framework structure behind the freight office on the track near the
        > creek? Was this some sort of an bucket hoist for the ashes? the ashes
        were
        > spread out as an easy alternative to burying them or hauling them away!!
        > They had a 20 mile long land fill!! I was also wondering if and where
        the
        > RRhad their own stone crusher?? they had the stone at the quarry in
        > Mayfield seems as though this was a big expence or did the Railroads not
        use
        > the crushed stone untill much later?? I know Mr. DO must have hauled in
        > thousands of tons of crused stone ballast when he used federal money to
        > upgrade the railbed? hw much a part of the early railroad was this??
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: Paul Charland <p.charlie@...>
        > To: <FJGRailroad@onelist.com>
        > Sent: Friday, March 03, 2000 8:00 AM
        > Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Weeds and Brush
        >
        >
        > > From: Paul Charland <p.charlie@...>
        > >
        > > Most large railways saved their ashes just for this purpose. The would
        > collect
        > > them in drop bottom gondolas, and them spread them on their tracks to
        keep
        > down
        > > and kill any vegetation along the line. If you've ever gone to
        somewhere
        > were
        > > they have pulled up the tracks years ago, you may find that they have
        > scraped it
        > > down to the cinder base, and nothing grows. CN Brockville is a fine
        > example of
        > > this. Across from the station, there was once a yard. It was pulled up
        > in the
        > > mid '70's and flattened to the cinder base, still today, no weeds, no
        > nothing.
        > >
        > > Paul
        > >
        > > paul larner wrote:
        > >
        > > > From: "paul larner" <pklarner@...>
        > > >
        > > > I'll throw this out as it was given to me... I always thought the
        clean
        > > > roadbeds of the steam days were the result of ample low priced
        manpower.
        > I
        > > > know the FJ&G had hand tools that you would use to weed the ballast
        > (cinders
        > > > for the most part and sand and poor gravel) not unlike hoeing a
        garden.
        > > > Other roads used diskers, which were pulled behind a motor source and
        > turned
        > > > the outside ballast and helped keep a well dressed road bed. A friend
        of
        > > > mine says it was largely due to the acidy character the soil took on
        > from
        > > > being exposed to coal soot and cinders that kept the weeds down.
        Sounds
        > > > plausible but I had never heard that before. Any comments?
        > > >
        > > > PKL
        > > >
        > > > >From: "Saul Kalbfeld" <skalbfel@...>
        > > > >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@onelist.com
        > > > >To: FJGRailroad@onelist.com
        > > > >Subject: [FJGRailroad] Weeds and Brush
        > > > >Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 03:41:07 -0000
        > > > >
        > > > >As I look at the ICC photos it seems as if the railroad must have had
        > > > >a pretty aggressive weed control program in the good old days. In
        > > > >later years, the fifties and sixties, the tracks in the Gloversville
        > > > >yard pretty much disappeared in the grass by August 1st. Did they
        > > > >have their own weed sprayers or did they bring in a contractor to do
        > > > >the job. I've seen pictures of some pretty elaborate weed spraying
        > > > >cars.
        > > > >Saul
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > ______________________________________________________
        > > > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
        > > >
        > >
        > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
        > > > DON'T HATE YOUR RATE!
        > > > Get a NextCard Visa, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as
        > > > 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees.
        > > > Apply NOW!
        > > > http://click.egroups.com/1/2120/1/_/562133/_/952061637/
        > >
        > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
        > > >
        > > > Visit Gino's F.J.G.R.R. Page at
        > > > http://www.capital.net/~dicarlos/
        > >
        > >
        > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
        > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates
        > > as low as 0.0% Intro APR and no hidden fees.
        > > Apply NOW!
        > > http://click.egroups.com/1/975/1/_/562133/_/952088389/
        > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
        > >
        > > Visit Gino's F.J.G.R.R. Page at
        > > http://www.capital.net/~dicarlos/
        > >
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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        > Get a NextCard Visa, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as
        > 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees.
        > Apply NOW!
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        > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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        >
      • Aaron Keller
        The early FJ&G just used sand and cinders for ballast. The crushed limestone ballast came from DO. ... From: Randy & Lorraine Decker
        Message 3 of 14 , Mar 3, 2000
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          The early FJ&G just used sand and cinders for ballast. The crushed
          limestone ballast came from DO.


          -----Original Message-----
          From: Randy & Lorraine Decker <rldecker@...>
          To: FJGRailroad@onelist.com <FJGRailroad@onelist.com>
          Date: Friday, March 03, 2000 10:04 AM
          Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Weeds and Brush


          >From: "Randy & Lorraine Decker" <rldecker@...>
          >
          >OK you guy's where was the FJ&G ash pit? I have seen photo's of the big
          >wooden framework structure behind the freight office on the track near the
          >creek? Was this some sort of an bucket hoist for the ashes? the ashes were
          >spread out as an easy alternative to burying them or hauling them away!!
          >They had a 20 mile long land fill!! I was also wondering if and where the
          >RRhad their own stone crusher?? they had the stone at the quarry in
          >Mayfield seems as though this was a big expence or did the Railroads not
          use
          >the crushed stone untill much later?? I know Mr. DO must have hauled in
          >thousands of tons of crused stone ballast when he used federal money to
          >upgrade the railbed? hw much a part of the early railroad was this??
          >----- Original Message -----
          >From: Paul Charland <p.charlie@...>
          >To: <FJGRailroad@onelist.com>
          >Sent: Friday, March 03, 2000 8:00 AM
          >Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Weeds and Brush
          >
          >
          >> From: Paul Charland <p.charlie@...>
          >>
          >> Most large railways saved their ashes just for this purpose. The would
          >collect
          >> them in drop bottom gondolas, and them spread them on their tracks to
          keep
          >down
          >> and kill any vegetation along the line. If you've ever gone to somewhere
          >were
          >> they have pulled up the tracks years ago, you may find that they have
          >scraped it
          >> down to the cinder base, and nothing grows. CN Brockville is a fine
          >example of
          >> this. Across from the station, there was once a yard. It was pulled up
          >in the
          >> mid '70's and flattened to the cinder base, still today, no weeds, no
          >nothing.
          >>
          >> Paul
          >>
          >> paul larner wrote:
          >>
          >> > From: "paul larner" <pklarner@...>
          >> >
          >> > I'll throw this out as it was given to me... I always thought the
          clean
          >> > roadbeds of the steam days were the result of ample low priced
          manpower.
          >I
          >> > know the FJ&G had hand tools that you would use to weed the ballast
          >(cinders
          >> > for the most part and sand and poor gravel) not unlike hoeing a garden.
          >> > Other roads used diskers, which were pulled behind a motor source and
          >turned
          >> > the outside ballast and helped keep a well dressed road bed. A friend
          of
          >> > mine says it was largely due to the acidy character the soil took on
          >from
          >> > being exposed to coal soot and cinders that kept the weeds down.
          Sounds
          >> > plausible but I had never heard that before. Any comments?
          >> >
          >> > PKL
          >> >
          >> > >From: "Saul Kalbfeld" <skalbfel@...>
          >> > >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@onelist.com
          >> > >To: FJGRailroad@onelist.com
          >> > >Subject: [FJGRailroad] Weeds and Brush
          >> > >Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 03:41:07 -0000
          >> > >
          >> > >As I look at the ICC photos it seems as if the railroad must have had
          >> > >a pretty aggressive weed control program in the good old days. In
          >> > >later years, the fifties and sixties, the tracks in the Gloversville
          >> > >yard pretty much disappeared in the grass by August 1st. Did they
          >> > >have their own weed sprayers or did they bring in a contractor to do
          >> > >the job. I've seen pictures of some pretty elaborate weed spraying
          >> > >cars.
          >> > >Saul
          >> > >
          >> >
          >> > ______________________________________________________
          >> > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
          >> >
          >>
          > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
          >> > DON'T HATE YOUR RATE!
          >> > Get a NextCard Visa, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as
          >> > 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees.
          >> > Apply NOW!
          >> > http://click.egroups.com/1/2120/1/_/562133/_/952061637/
          >>
          > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
          >> >
          >> > Visit Gino's F.J.G.R.R. Page at
          >> > http://www.capital.net/~dicarlos/
          >>
          >>
          >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
          >> GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates
          >> as low as 0.0% Intro APR and no hidden fees.
          >> Apply NOW!
          >> http://click.egroups.com/1/975/1/_/562133/_/952088389/
          >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
          >>
          >> Visit Gino's F.J.G.R.R. Page at
          >> http://www.capital.net/~dicarlos/
          >>
          >
          >
          >------------------------------------------------------------------------
          >MAXIMIZE YOUR CARD, MINIMIZE YOUR RATE!
          >Get a NextCard Visa, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as
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          >Apply NOW!
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          >
          >
        • Frank Pierson
          Pual, Actually Steam itself will kill plants along the roadbed. The heat and steam break down the plants protective surface oils causing the plant to die. A
          Message 4 of 14 , Mar 4, 2000
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            Pual,
            Actually Steam itself will kill plants along the roadbed. The heat and
            steam break down the plants protective surface oils causing the plant
            to die. A slow trip with the cylinder cocks open will kill all in the
            roadbed. A lot of roads also had a steam line from the boiler for switch
            thawing and other uses.

            Frank

            paul larner wrote:
            >
            > From: "paul larner" <pklarner@...>
            >
            > I'll throw this out as it was given to me... I always thought the
            > clean
            > roadbeds of the steam days were the result of ample low priced
            > manpower. I
            > know the FJ&G had hand tools that you would use to weed the ballast
            > (cinders
            > for the most part and sand and poor gravel) not unlike hoeing a
            > garden.
            > Other roads used diskers, which were pulled behind a motor source and
            > turned
            > the outside ballast and helped keep a well dressed road bed. A friend
            > of
            > mine says it was largely due to the acidy character the soil took on
            > from
            > being exposed to coal soot and cinders that kept the weeds down.
            > Sounds
            > plausible but I had never heard that before. Any comments?
            >
            > PKL
            >
            > >From: "Saul Kalbfeld" <skalbfel@...>
            > >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@onelist.com
            > >To: FJGRailroad@onelist.com
            > >Subject: [FJGRailroad] Weeds and Brush
            > >Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 03:41:07 -0000
            > >
            > >As I look at the ICC photos it seems as if the railroad must have had
            > >a pretty aggressive weed control program in the good old days. In
            > >later years, the fifties and sixties, the tracks in the Gloversville
            > >yard pretty much disappeared in the grass by August 1st. Did they
            > >have their own weed sprayers or did they bring in a contractor to do
            > >the job. I've seen pictures of some pretty elaborate weed spraying
            > >cars.
            > >Saul
            > >
            >
            > ______________________________________________________
            > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
            >
            > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
            > [Click Here for Move.com!]
            > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
            > Visit Gino's F.J.G.R.R. Page at
            > http://www.capital.net/~dicarlos/
          • paul larner
            The steam job worked but the weeds come back stronger than ever; we ve tried it. The burners were better. We ve tried nickel slag ballast where we couldn t
            Message 5 of 14 , Mar 4, 2000
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              The steam job worked but the weeds come back stronger than ever; we've tried
              it. The burners were better. We've tried nickel slag ballast where we
              couldn't spray and there was a machine called a disker used where you didn't
              have stone ballast (not very practical on today's main lines). Nothing
              beats chemicals, if we can live with them.

              Re the tower at Fonda. I've re checked the pictures and I don't see a
              signal bridge at the west end of the interlocking in any of the photos I've
              looked at. The west end must have used pole mounted signals on the outside,
              similar to the one beside the FJ&G track, governing the eastward movement
              from the FJ&G main to the NYC running track. The NYC was 251 territory
              where each track has a direction or current of traffic, the two inner tracks
              being westward. The signals in one of the pics, which shows tower 16 in the
              SW quadrant, appear to be home signals, but I can't see any switches. I
              believe the tower was removed and the controls put in a new tower 16 above
              the station before the line went to CTC or movement in both directions.
              Early fifties maybe, late forties, does anyone out there know?

              I have a vague recollection of the rods being there at Fonda but none of the
              tower.

              PKL


              >From: "Randy & Lorraine Decker" <rldecker@...>
              >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@onelist.com
              >To: <FJGRailroad@onelist.com>
              >Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Weeds and Brush
              >Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 02:16:09 -0500
              >
              >Boy it would sure seem as though the grease and oil alone from the steam
              >engines as well as the steam itself would have been pretty good weed
              >control
              >and labor was cheap but I seem to remember in my era of the sixties and
              >early seventies the RR had a real weird looking car that had three long
              >rather large downspouted tubes that would spout steam out the ends and thus
              >within a few days kill and wither the weeds with just one pass the heat
              >would do the job and this was cheap and easy to run was this new
              >technology?? or have unit's like this been used for some time?? seems as
              >though with the steam engines they could run a car like this once a month
              >and keep the tracks completely clear
              >----- Original Message -----
              >From: Saul Kalbfeld <skalbfel@...>
              >To: <FJGRailroad@onelist.com>
              >Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2000 10:41 PM
              >Subject: [FJGRailroad] Weeds and Brush
              >
              >
              > > From: "Saul Kalbfeld" <skalbfel@...>
              > >
              > > As I look at the ICC photos it seems as if the railroad must have had
              > > a pretty aggressive weed control program in the good old days. In
              > > later years, the fifties and sixties, the tracks in the Gloversville
              > > yard pretty much disappeared in the grass by August 1st. Did they
              > > have their own weed sprayers or did they bring in a contractor to do
              > > the job. I've seen pictures of some pretty elaborate weed spraying
              > > cars.
              > > Saul
              > >
              > >
              > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
              > > DON'T HATE YOUR RATE!
              > > Get a NextCard Visa, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as
              > > 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees.
              > > Apply NOW!
              > > http://click.egroups.com/1/2120/1/_/562133/_/952054874/
              > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
              > >
              > > Visit Gino's F.J.G.R.R. Page at
              > > http://www.capital.net/~dicarlos/
              > >
              >

              ______________________________________________________
              Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
            • Paul Charland
              Does anyone know which track the eastbound NYC passenger trains stopped on in Fonda? Did passengers have to cross two or three NYC mains, plus the FJ&G main
              Message 6 of 14 , Mar 4, 2000
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                Does anyone know which track the eastbound NYC passenger trains stopped on in
                Fonda? Did passengers have to cross two or three NYC mains, plus the FJ&G main
                to reach the station? Was there a crossover to get a passenger train closer to
                the north side?

                I ask this because for years here in Brockville, at a crossing east two blocks
                east of the station, CN had a crossing guard that was responsible for putting
                down the gate, as well as operating a switch to get passenger trains in and out
                of the station track. No signals, just him with an employees time table.

                Paul

                paul larner wrote:

                > From: "paul larner" <pklarner@...>
                >
                > The steam job worked but the weeds come back stronger than ever; we've tried
                > it. The burners were better. We've tried nickel slag ballast where we
                > couldn't spray and there was a machine called a disker used where you didn't
                > have stone ballast (not very practical on today's main lines). Nothing
                > beats chemicals, if we can live with them.
                >
                > Re the tower at Fonda. I've re checked the pictures and I don't see a
                > signal bridge at the west end of the interlocking in any of the photos I've
                > looked at. The west end must have used pole mounted signals on the outside,
                > similar to the one beside the FJ&G track, governing the eastward movement
                > from the FJ&G main to the NYC running track. The NYC was 251 territory
                > where each track has a direction or current of traffic, the two inner tracks
                > being westward. The signals in one of the pics, which shows tower 16 in the
                > SW quadrant, appear to be home signals, but I can't see any switches. I
                > believe the tower was removed and the controls put in a new tower 16 above
                > the station before the line went to CTC or movement in both directions.
                > Early fifties maybe, late forties, does anyone out there know?
                >
                > I have a vague recollection of the rods being there at Fonda but none of the
                > tower.
                >
                > PKL
                >
                > >From: "Randy & Lorraine Decker" <rldecker@...>
                > >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@onelist.com
                > >To: <FJGRailroad@onelist.com>
                > >Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Weeds and Brush
                > >Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 02:16:09 -0500
                > >
                > >Boy it would sure seem as though the grease and oil alone from the steam
                > >engines as well as the steam itself would have been pretty good weed
                > >control
                > >and labor was cheap but I seem to remember in my era of the sixties and
                > >early seventies the RR had a real weird looking car that had three long
                > >rather large downspouted tubes that would spout steam out the ends and thus
                > >within a few days kill and wither the weeds with just one pass the heat
                > >would do the job and this was cheap and easy to run was this new
                > >technology?? or have unit's like this been used for some time?? seems as
                > >though with the steam engines they could run a car like this once a month
                > >and keep the tracks completely clear
                > >----- Original Message -----
                > >From: Saul Kalbfeld <skalbfel@...>
                > >To: <FJGRailroad@onelist.com>
                > >Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2000 10:41 PM
                > >Subject: [FJGRailroad] Weeds and Brush
                > >
                > >
                > > > From: "Saul Kalbfeld" <skalbfel@...>
                > > >
                > > > As I look at the ICC photos it seems as if the railroad must have had
                > > > a pretty aggressive weed control program in the good old days. In
                > > > later years, the fifties and sixties, the tracks in the Gloversville
                > > > yard pretty much disappeared in the grass by August 1st. Did they
                > > > have their own weed sprayers or did they bring in a contractor to do
                > > > the job. I've seen pictures of some pretty elaborate weed spraying
                > > > cars.
                > > > Saul
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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                > > > http://www.capital.net/~dicarlos/
                > > >
                > >
                >
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              • paul larner
                On the track that lead into the passenger car house, where they coaled the engines. Was there as long as the track was in, believe it was constructed of
                Message 7 of 14 , Mar 4, 2000
                • 0 Attachment
                  On the track that lead into the passenger car house, where they coaled the
                  engines. Was there as long as the track was in, believe it was constructed
                  of concrete like a tub. There were pits in the engine houses also.

                  PKL

                  >From: "Randy & Lorraine Decker" <rldecker@...>
                  >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@onelist.com
                  >To: <FJGRailroad@onelist.com>
                  >Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Weeds and Brush
                  >Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 10:03:41 -0500
                  >
                  >OK you guy's where was the FJ&G ash pit? I have seen photo's of the big
                  >wooden framework structure behind the freight office on the track near the
                  >creek? Was this some sort of an bucket hoist for the ashes? the ashes were
                  >spread out as an easy alternative to burying them or hauling them away!!
                  >They had a 20 mile long land fill!! I was also wondering if and where the
                  >RRhad their own stone crusher?? they had the stone at the quarry in
                  >Mayfield seems as though this was a big expence or did the Railroads not
                  >use
                  >the crushed stone untill much later?? I know Mr. DO must have hauled in
                  >thousands of tons of crused stone ballast when he used federal money to
                  >upgrade the railbed? hw much a part of the early railroad was this??
                  >----- Original Message -----
                  >From: Paul Charland <p.charlie@...>
                  >To: <FJGRailroad@onelist.com>
                  >Sent: Friday, March 03, 2000 8:00 AM
                  >Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Weeds and Brush
                  >
                  >
                  > > From: Paul Charland <p.charlie@...>
                  > >
                  > > Most large railways saved their ashes just for this purpose. The would
                  >collect
                  > > them in drop bottom gondolas, and them spread them on their tracks to
                  >keep
                  >down
                  > > and kill any vegetation along the line. If you've ever gone to
                  >somewhere
                  >were
                  > > they have pulled up the tracks years ago, you may find that they have
                  >scraped it
                  > > down to the cinder base, and nothing grows. CN Brockville is a fine
                  >example of
                  > > this. Across from the station, there was once a yard. It was pulled up
                  >in the
                  > > mid '70's and flattened to the cinder base, still today, no weeds, no
                  >nothing.
                  > >
                  > > Paul
                  > >
                  > > paul larner wrote:
                  > >
                  > > > From: "paul larner" <pklarner@...>
                  > > >
                  > > > I'll throw this out as it was given to me... I always thought the
                  >clean
                  > > > roadbeds of the steam days were the result of ample low priced
                  >manpower.
                  >I
                  > > > know the FJ&G had hand tools that you would use to weed the ballast
                  >(cinders
                  > > > for the most part and sand and poor gravel) not unlike hoeing a
                  >garden.
                  > > > Other roads used diskers, which were pulled behind a motor source and
                  >turned
                  > > > the outside ballast and helped keep a well dressed road bed. A friend
                  >of
                  > > > mine says it was largely due to the acidy character the soil took on
                  >from
                  > > > being exposed to coal soot and cinders that kept the weeds down.
                  >Sounds
                  > > > plausible but I had never heard that before. Any comments?
                  > > >
                  > > > PKL
                  > > >
                  > > > >From: "Saul Kalbfeld" <skalbfel@...>
                  > > > >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@onelist.com
                  > > > >To: FJGRailroad@onelist.com
                  > > > >Subject: [FJGRailroad] Weeds and Brush
                  > > > >Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 03:41:07 -0000
                  > > > >
                  > > > >As I look at the ICC photos it seems as if the railroad must have had
                  > > > >a pretty aggressive weed control program in the good old days. In
                  > > > >later years, the fifties and sixties, the tracks in the Gloversville
                  > > > >yard pretty much disappeared in the grass by August 1st. Did they
                  > > > >have their own weed sprayers or did they bring in a contractor to do
                  > > > >the job. I've seen pictures of some pretty elaborate weed spraying
                  > > > >cars.
                  > > > >Saul
                  > > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > ______________________________________________________
                  > > > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  >------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  > > > DON'T HATE YOUR RATE!
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                  > > > 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees.
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                  > > >
                  >------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  > > >
                  > > > Visit Gino's F.J.G.R.R. Page at
                  > > > http://www.capital.net/~dicarlos/
                  > >
                  > >
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                  > > http://www.capital.net/~dicarlos/
                  > >
                  >

                  ______________________________________________________
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                • paul larner
                  The passenger tracks were the two south tracks. They were numbered from the south 2-1-3-4 at Fonda and they retain that sequence today with 3-4 obviously
                  Message 8 of 14 , Mar 4, 2000
                  • 0 Attachment
                    The passenger tracks were the two south tracks. They were numbered from the
                    south 2-1-3-4 at Fonda and they retain that sequence today with 3-4
                    obviously gone. The other track today is refered to simply as the
                    controlled siding. 2 was eastward, 1 westward. To use a track of another
                    direction in current of traffic territory would require a train order and
                    generally disrupt the day, unless something had already messed up the
                    ritual.

                    Paul


                    >From: Paul Charland <p.charlie@...>
                    >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@onelist.com
                    >To: FJGRailroad@onelist.com
                    >Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Weeds and Brush
                    >Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2000 21:22:25 -0500
                    >
                    >Does anyone know which track the eastbound NYC passenger trains stopped on
                    >in
                    >Fonda? Did passengers have to cross two or three NYC mains, plus the FJ&G
                    >main
                    >to reach the station? Was there a crossover to get a passenger train
                    >closer to
                    >the north side?
                    >
                    >I ask this because for years here in Brockville, at a crossing east two
                    >blocks
                    >east of the station, CN had a crossing guard that was responsible for
                    >putting
                    >down the gate, as well as operating a switch to get passenger trains in and
                    >out
                    >of the station track. No signals, just him with an employees time table.
                    >
                    >Paul
                    >
                    >paul larner wrote:
                    >
                    > > From: "paul larner" <pklarner@...>
                    > >
                    > > The steam job worked but the weeds come back stronger than ever; we've
                    >tried
                    > > it. The burners were better. We've tried nickel slag ballast where we
                    > > couldn't spray and there was a machine called a disker used where you
                    >didn't
                    > > have stone ballast (not very practical on today's main lines). Nothing
                    > > beats chemicals, if we can live with them.
                    > >
                    > > Re the tower at Fonda. I've re checked the pictures and I don't see a
                    > > signal bridge at the west end of the interlocking in any of the photos
                    >I've
                    > > looked at. The west end must have used pole mounted signals on the
                    >outside,
                    > > similar to the one beside the FJ&G track, governing the eastward
                    >movement
                    > > from the FJ&G main to the NYC running track. The NYC was 251 territory
                    > > where each track has a direction or current of traffic, the two inner
                    >tracks
                    > > being westward. The signals in one of the pics, which shows tower 16 in
                    >the
                    > > SW quadrant, appear to be home signals, but I can't see any switches. I
                    > > believe the tower was removed and the controls put in a new tower 16
                    >above
                    > > the station before the line went to CTC or movement in both directions.
                    > > Early fifties maybe, late forties, does anyone out there know?
                    > >
                    > > I have a vague recollection of the rods being there at Fonda but none of
                    >the
                    > > tower.
                    > >
                    > > PKL
                    > >
                    > > >From: "Randy & Lorraine Decker" <rldecker@...>
                    > > >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@onelist.com
                    > > >To: <FJGRailroad@onelist.com>
                    > > >Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Weeds and Brush
                    > > >Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 02:16:09 -0500
                    > > >
                    > > >Boy it would sure seem as though the grease and oil alone from the
                    >steam
                    > > >engines as well as the steam itself would have been pretty good weed
                    > > >control
                    > > >and labor was cheap but I seem to remember in my era of the sixties and
                    > > >early seventies the RR had a real weird looking car that had three long
                    > > >rather large downspouted tubes that would spout steam out the ends and
                    >thus
                    > > >within a few days kill and wither the weeds with just one pass the heat
                    > > >would do the job and this was cheap and easy to run was this new
                    > > >technology?? or have unit's like this been used for some time?? seems
                    >as
                    > > >though with the steam engines they could run a car like this once a
                    >month
                    > > >and keep the tracks completely clear
                    > > >----- Original Message -----
                    > > >From: Saul Kalbfeld <skalbfel@...>
                    > > >To: <FJGRailroad@onelist.com>
                    > > >Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2000 10:41 PM
                    > > >Subject: [FJGRailroad] Weeds and Brush
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > > From: "Saul Kalbfeld" <skalbfel@...>
                    > > > >
                    > > > > As I look at the ICC photos it seems as if the railroad must have
                    >had
                    > > > > a pretty aggressive weed control program in the good old days. In
                    > > > > later years, the fifties and sixties, the tracks in the Gloversville
                    > > > > yard pretty much disappeared in the grass by August 1st. Did they
                    > > > > have their own weed sprayers or did they bring in a contractor to do
                    > > > > the job. I've seen pictures of some pretty elaborate weed spraying
                    > > > > cars.
                    > > > > Saul
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    >------------------------------------------------------------------------
                    > > > > DON'T HATE YOUR RATE!
                    > > > > Get a NextCard Visa, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as
                    > > > > 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees.
                    > > > > Apply NOW!
                    > > > > http://click.egroups.com/1/2120/1/_/562133/_/952054874/
                    > > > >
                    >------------------------------------------------------------------------
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Visit Gino's F.J.G.R.R. Page at
                    > > > > http://www.capital.net/~dicarlos/
                    > > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > > ______________________________________________________
                    > > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
                    > >
                    > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                    > > PERFORM CPR ON YOUR APR!
                    > > Get a NextCard Visa, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as
                    > > 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees.
                    > > Apply NOW!
                    > > http://click.egroups.com/1/2121/1/_/562133/_/952220607/
                    > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                    > >
                    > > Visit Gino's F.J.G.R.R. Page at
                    > > http://www.capital.net/~dicarlos/
                    >

                    ______________________________________________________
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                  • Paul Charland
                    Interesting Paul, Did read something in my 79 Conrail times table about going against the current of traffic, they still didn t like it. Paul
                    Message 9 of 14 , Mar 4, 2000
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Interesting Paul,

                      Did read something in my '79 Conrail times table about going against the current
                      of traffic, they still didn't like it.

                      Paul

                      paul larner wrote:

                      > From: "paul larner" <pklarner@...>
                      >
                      > The passenger tracks were the two south tracks. They were numbered from the
                      > south 2-1-3-4 at Fonda and they retain that sequence today with 3-4
                      > obviously gone. The other track today is refered to simply as the
                      > controlled siding. 2 was eastward, 1 westward. To use a track of another
                      > direction in current of traffic territory would require a train order and
                      > generally disrupt the day, unless something had already messed up the
                      > ritual.
                      >
                      > Paul
                      >
                      > >From: Paul Charland <p.charlie@...>
                      > >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@onelist.com
                      > >To: FJGRailroad@onelist.com
                      > >Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Weeds and Brush
                      > >Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2000 21:22:25 -0500
                      > >
                      > >Does anyone know which track the eastbound NYC passenger trains stopped on
                      > >in
                      > >Fonda? Did passengers have to cross two or three NYC mains, plus the FJ&G
                      > >main
                      > >to reach the station? Was there a crossover to get a passenger train
                      > >closer to
                      > >the north side?
                      > >
                      > >I ask this because for years here in Brockville, at a crossing east two
                      > >blocks
                      > >east of the station, CN had a crossing guard that was responsible for
                      > >putting
                      > >down the gate, as well as operating a switch to get passenger trains in and
                      > >out
                      > >of the station track. No signals, just him with an employees time table.
                      > >
                      > >Paul
                      > >
                      > >paul larner wrote:
                      > >
                      > > > From: "paul larner" <pklarner@...>
                      > > >
                      > > > The steam job worked but the weeds come back stronger than ever; we've
                      > >tried
                      > > > it. The burners were better. We've tried nickel slag ballast where we
                      > > > couldn't spray and there was a machine called a disker used where you
                      > >didn't
                      > > > have stone ballast (not very practical on today's main lines). Nothing
                      > > > beats chemicals, if we can live with them.
                      > > >
                      > > > Re the tower at Fonda. I've re checked the pictures and I don't see a
                      > > > signal bridge at the west end of the interlocking in any of the photos
                      > >I've
                      > > > looked at. The west end must have used pole mounted signals on the
                      > >outside,
                      > > > similar to the one beside the FJ&G track, governing the eastward
                      > >movement
                      > > > from the FJ&G main to the NYC running track. The NYC was 251 territory
                      > > > where each track has a direction or current of traffic, the two inner
                      > >tracks
                      > > > being westward. The signals in one of the pics, which shows tower 16 in
                      > >the
                      > > > SW quadrant, appear to be home signals, but I can't see any switches. I
                      > > > believe the tower was removed and the controls put in a new tower 16
                      > >above
                      > > > the station before the line went to CTC or movement in both directions.
                      > > > Early fifties maybe, late forties, does anyone out there know?
                      > > >
                      > > > I have a vague recollection of the rods being there at Fonda but none of
                      > >the
                      > > > tower.
                      > > >
                      > > > PKL
                      > > >
                      > > > >From: "Randy & Lorraine Decker" <rldecker@...>
                      > > > >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@onelist.com
                      > > > >To: <FJGRailroad@onelist.com>
                      > > > >Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Weeds and Brush
                      > > > >Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 02:16:09 -0500
                      > > > >
                      > > > >Boy it would sure seem as though the grease and oil alone from the
                      > >steam
                      > > > >engines as well as the steam itself would have been pretty good weed
                      > > > >control
                      > > > >and labor was cheap but I seem to remember in my era of the sixties and
                      > > > >early seventies the RR had a real weird looking car that had three long
                      > > > >rather large downspouted tubes that would spout steam out the ends and
                      > >thus
                      > > > >within a few days kill and wither the weeds with just one pass the heat
                      > > > >would do the job and this was cheap and easy to run was this new
                      > > > >technology?? or have unit's like this been used for some time?? seems
                      > >as
                      > > > >though with the steam engines they could run a car like this once a
                      > >month
                      > > > >and keep the tracks completely clear
                      > > > >----- Original Message -----
                      > > > >From: Saul Kalbfeld <skalbfel@...>
                      > > > >To: <FJGRailroad@onelist.com>
                      > > > >Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2000 10:41 PM
                      > > > >Subject: [FJGRailroad] Weeds and Brush
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > > > From: "Saul Kalbfeld" <skalbfel@...>
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > As I look at the ICC photos it seems as if the railroad must have
                      > >had
                      > > > > > a pretty aggressive weed control program in the good old days. In
                      > > > > > later years, the fifties and sixties, the tracks in the Gloversville
                      > > > > > yard pretty much disappeared in the grass by August 1st. Did they
                      > > > > > have their own weed sprayers or did they bring in a contractor to do
                      > > > > > the job. I've seen pictures of some pretty elaborate weed spraying
                      > > > > > cars.
                      > > > > > Saul
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > >------------------------------------------------------------------------
                      > > > > > DON'T HATE YOUR RATE!
                      > > > > > Get a NextCard Visa, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as
                      > > > > > 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees.
                      > > > > > Apply NOW!
                      > > > > > http://click.egroups.com/1/2120/1/_/562133/_/952054874/
                      > > > > >
                      > >------------------------------------------------------------------------
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Visit Gino's F.J.G.R.R. Page at
                      > > > > > http://www.capital.net/~dicarlos/
                      > > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > ______________________________________________________
                      > > > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
                      > > >
                      > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                      > > > PERFORM CPR ON YOUR APR!
                      > > > Get a NextCard Visa, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as
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                      > > > Apply NOW!
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                      > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                      > > >
                      > > > Visit Gino's F.J.G.R.R. Page at
                      > > > http://www.capital.net/~dicarlos/
                      > >
                      >
                      > ______________________________________________________
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                      >
                      > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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                    • paul larner
                      The rules provide for such moves, but require paper authority since there would be no signal authority or protection. You also have a whistle signal to use at
                      Message 10 of 14 , Mar 4, 2000
                      • 0 Attachment
                        The rules provide for such moves, but require paper authority since there
                        would be no signal authority or protection. You also have a whistle signal
                        to use at curves and before blowing the crossing signal to indicate to
                        others that the approaching train is not on the usual track. Current of
                        traffic still exists on the Niagara branch between CP8 and CP17 and on the
                        Mohawk between CP 286 and CP290 on track 7 (former Syracuse Junction). In
                        TCS either track can be used in either direction but the rukes do provide a
                        method for protection when required to receive and discharge across another
                        main track.

                        PKL



                        >From: Paul Charland <p.charlie@...>
                        >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@onelist.com
                        >To: FJGRailroad@onelist.com
                        >Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Weeds and Brush
                        >Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2000 21:42:22 -0500
                        >
                        >Interesting Paul,
                        >
                        >Did read something in my '79 Conrail times table about going against the
                        >current
                        >of traffic, they still didn't like it.
                        >
                        >Paul
                        >
                        >paul larner wrote:
                        >
                        > > From: "paul larner" <pklarner@...>
                        > >
                        > > The passenger tracks were the two south tracks. They were numbered from
                        >the
                        > > south 2-1-3-4 at Fonda and they retain that sequence today with 3-4
                        > > obviously gone. The other track today is refered to simply as the
                        > > controlled siding. 2 was eastward, 1 westward. To use a track of
                        >another
                        > > direction in current of traffic territory would require a train order
                        >and
                        > > generally disrupt the day, unless something had already messed up the
                        > > ritual.
                        > >
                        > > Paul
                        > >
                        > > >From: Paul Charland <p.charlie@...>
                        > > >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@onelist.com
                        > > >To: FJGRailroad@onelist.com
                        > > >Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Weeds and Brush
                        > > >Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2000 21:22:25 -0500
                        > > >
                        > > >Does anyone know which track the eastbound NYC passenger trains stopped
                        >on
                        > > >in
                        > > >Fonda? Did passengers have to cross two or three NYC mains, plus the
                        >FJ&G
                        > > >main
                        > > >to reach the station? Was there a crossover to get a passenger train
                        > > >closer to
                        > > >the north side?
                        > > >
                        > > >I ask this because for years here in Brockville, at a crossing east two
                        > > >blocks
                        > > >east of the station, CN had a crossing guard that was responsible for
                        > > >putting
                        > > >down the gate, as well as operating a switch to get passenger trains in
                        >and
                        > > >out
                        > > >of the station track. No signals, just him with an employees time
                        >table.
                        > > >
                        > > >Paul
                        > > >
                        > > >paul larner wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > > From: "paul larner" <pklarner@...>
                        > > > >
                        > > > > The steam job worked but the weeds come back stronger than ever;
                        >we've
                        > > >tried
                        > > > > it. The burners were better. We've tried nickel slag ballast where
                        >we
                        > > > > couldn't spray and there was a machine called a disker used where
                        >you
                        > > >didn't
                        > > > > have stone ballast (not very practical on today's main lines).
                        >Nothing
                        > > > > beats chemicals, if we can live with them.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Re the tower at Fonda. I've re checked the pictures and I don't see
                        >a
                        > > > > signal bridge at the west end of the interlocking in any of the
                        >photos
                        > > >I've
                        > > > > looked at. The west end must have used pole mounted signals on the
                        > > >outside,
                        > > > > similar to the one beside the FJ&G track, governing the eastward
                        > > >movement
                        > > > > from the FJ&G main to the NYC running track. The NYC was 251
                        >territory
                        > > > > where each track has a direction or current of traffic, the two
                        >inner
                        > > >tracks
                        > > > > being westward. The signals in one of the pics, which shows tower
                        >16 in
                        > > >the
                        > > > > SW quadrant, appear to be home signals, but I can't see any
                        >switches. I
                        > > > > believe the tower was removed and the controls put in a new tower 16
                        > > >above
                        > > > > the station before the line went to CTC or movement in both
                        >directions.
                        > > > > Early fifties maybe, late forties, does anyone out there know?
                        > > > >
                        > > > > I have a vague recollection of the rods being there at Fonda but
                        >none of
                        > > >the
                        > > > > tower.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > PKL
                        > > > >
                        > > > > >From: "Randy & Lorraine Decker" <rldecker@...>
                        > > > > >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@onelist.com
                        > > > > >To: <FJGRailroad@onelist.com>
                        > > > > >Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Weeds and Brush
                        > > > > >Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 02:16:09 -0500
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >Boy it would sure seem as though the grease and oil alone from the
                        > > >steam
                        > > > > >engines as well as the steam itself would have been pretty good
                        >weed
                        > > > > >control
                        > > > > >and labor was cheap but I seem to remember in my era of the sixties
                        >and
                        > > > > >early seventies the RR had a real weird looking car that had three
                        >long
                        > > > > >rather large downspouted tubes that would spout steam out the ends
                        >and
                        > > >thus
                        > > > > >within a few days kill and wither the weeds with just one pass the
                        >heat
                        > > > > >would do the job and this was cheap and easy to run was this new
                        > > > > >technology?? or have unit's like this been used for some time??
                        >seems
                        > > >as
                        > > > > >though with the steam engines they could run a car like this once a
                        > > >month
                        > > > > >and keep the tracks completely clear
                        > > > > >----- Original Message -----
                        > > > > >From: Saul Kalbfeld <skalbfel@...>
                        > > > > >To: <FJGRailroad@onelist.com>
                        > > > > >Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2000 10:41 PM
                        > > > > >Subject: [FJGRailroad] Weeds and Brush
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > > From: "Saul Kalbfeld" <skalbfel@...>
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > As I look at the ICC photos it seems as if the railroad must
                        >have
                        > > >had
                        > > > > > > a pretty aggressive weed control program in the good old days.
                        >In
                        > > > > > > later years, the fifties and sixties, the tracks in the
                        >Gloversville
                        > > > > > > yard pretty much disappeared in the grass by August 1st. Did
                        >they
                        > > > > > > have their own weed sprayers or did they bring in a contractor
                        >to do
                        > > > > > > the job. I've seen pictures of some pretty elaborate weed
                        >spraying
                        > > > > > > cars.
                        > > > > > > Saul
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > > >
                        > >
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