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Sacandaga

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  • GINO DICARLO (QUAD GRAPHICS, SARATOGA)
    While we re still on the Sacandaga subject (I love it), I read somewhere that the bridge to Sport Island was tore down every fall to accomodate the logs being
    Message 1 of 6 , Feb 13, 2000
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      While we're still on the Sacandaga subject (I love it), I read somewhere
      that the bridge to Sport Island was tore down every fall to accomodate
      the logs being floated down the river to mills. Or maybe it was the ice
      jams that did the bridge in. It must have been a pain to rebuild the
      bridge every spring. This bridge was used to get to the Sport Island
      ball park from the midway. The mini train also went over the bridge and
      around the Island...

      Gino
    • Aaron Keller
      I have just read a few good books discussing this topic. One is Barbara McMartin s The Great Forest of the Adirondacks, which examines the elements which
      Message 2 of 6 , Jun 9, 2007
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        I have just read a few good books discussing this topic. One is Barbara
        McMartin's "The Great Forest of the Adirondacks," which examines the
        elements which changed the character and makeup of the woods.

        Most of the streams in the Hudson and other watersheds were dammed so that
        loggers could float 13'4" logs down the small streams and eventually into
        the Hudson; collecting them at the Big Boom near Glens Falls (right near
        the big bend in the river). There they were sorted and sent through
        several other booms so that the appropriate cuts went to the appropriate
        mills.

        Logs for Glens Falls were cut as far north as Newcomb and as far west as
        Blue Mountain Lake. A state law that made rivers into public highways
        allowed for the great river drives. The last one was in 1950 with smaller
        4' pulp logs.

        The Sacandaga was one of those reservoirs, as Malcolm points out, that was
        used to guarantee that enough water was present. Before the reservoir, the
        Hudson would occasionally become so dry that the mills in Glens Falls did
        not have enough wood to operate.

        It is interesting to examine the infrastructure of the region as it was
        built up between 1800 and 1880; and to see it here, on the other end, in
        its demise.

        -Aaron


        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Malcolm Horton" <mdhorton@...>
        To: <FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com>; <HudsonRiverRailLines@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 9:22 AM
        Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Re: [HudsonRiverRailLines] Re: From The
        Archives - Where's the hopper!


        The reason for building the Great Sacandaga Lake was to stabilize the flow
        of the Hudson River in late summers so the many paper mills and
        hydroelectric plants could continue to operate. 95% of the cost of building
        the reservoir was paid by the paper mills and power companies and 5% was
        paid by the state for flood control.

        The release of water for purposes of controlling the salt barrier below
        Poughkeepsie is an unanticipated use of this water and has occurred only in
        very recent years.

        Malcolm Horton
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: joseph Klapkowski<mailto:riverlinejoe@...>
        To:
        HudsonRiverRailLines@yahoogroups.com<mailto:HudsonRiverRailLines@yahoogroups.com>
        ; FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com<mailto:FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 1:29 AM
        Subject: [FJGRailroad] Re: [HudsonRiverRailLines] Re: From The Archives -
        Where's the hopper!


        Back in the 1930, the State of New York decided to build a dam and create
        the Great Sacandaga Reservoir. The reason is that several communities get
        thier drinking water from the Hudson River. I believe Poughkeepsie gets
        at
        least some of thier drinking water from the Hudson. In periods of
        drought,
        the Hudson becomes much more briney. So the Sacandaga was created to
        allow
        for more water to be released into the Mohawk and subsequently the Hudson
        to
        counteract this problem. I believe the dam is at Conklinville, N.Y.

        The water rose much more quickly than anyone envisioned and as a result
        the
        Fonda johnstown & Gloversville line to Northville was flooded before they
        could get all the cars out of Northville, the northern end of the line.
        You
        have probably seen a picture of an engine that appears to be sailing
        along
        the water. This was the FJ&G's steam engine going to Northville to
        retrive
        the last cars at the end of the line.

        I am not entirely certain but I believe the rails were torn up in the
        face
        of the rising water. Once in a great while, during a period of severe
        drought, the Sacandaga gets so low (I have been told) that there are
        places
        where the old right of way becomes visible.

        >> Although I remember in the later 80s-early 90s there was a severe
        >drought so much so that the Hudson River was low also and tidal salt
        water
        >made it far enough north to create a brackish mix when pumped into the
        >aqueduct. There was also environmental concern about non-native species
        >entering the reservoirs in the Croton system. Those were the years that
        >the Ashokin Res in the Catskills was nearly dry.
        >
        > >
        >
        >
        >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >

        __________________________________________________________
        Like puzzles? Play free games & earn great prizes. Play Clink now.
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      • oleroadslug
        Having lived on Great Sacandaga Lake for a large portion of my youth, our family was told back when in the 1930 s when the valley was somewhat cleared and
        Message 3 of 6 , Jun 11, 2007
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          Having lived on Great Sacandaga Lake for a large portion of my youth,
          our family was told back when in the 1930's when the valley was
          somewhat cleared and Conklinville Dam was done, the sole purpose was
          to control the spring flooding waters that would hit Schenectady and
          the Capital District. However, it would not surprise me that logging
          was a big interest there as well.

          Boy, did that lake ebb and flow. I have shots of stumps in the middle
          of the lake just north of the Northampton Campsite, south of
          Northville. In recent years, yes I have heard of water control for
          drinking down mid state; but much pressure is coming from locals and
          tourism to keep that lake at a more user friendly level into fall;
          then drop it.

          It used to be a great fishery. Excellent smallmouth, and some walleye
          if known to be had. Fall and winter larger northerns would be seen.
          For the longest time, Sacandaga held the world's record for Northern
          Pike.

          I'm sure it presently holds a USA record for inland carp. Recent
          years in the late 1990's or so; they have tried smelt stocking and
          more aggressive trout stocking. I don't know about the later.

          Sacandaga River down from Hope and other streams don't contribute a
          BIG % of water IMHO. The underground springs do.

          I have a shot of the steam engine in the water. I have also
          snorkel/scuba dived around the Sacandaga Park area only to find silt
          and slight timber relics.

          My largest Northern Pike I caught was at the Park. Still hangs on my
          wall today. 19# 3 oz. I have two smaller smallmouth bass from there
          as well. My dad has a 37" walleye (9#) he caught a week before he
          sold the properties after 28 years there.

          It hangs in my living room.

          But this is the FJ&G list, not Sacandaga Saga..

          Regards,

          Bob Schoneman
          Appleton, WI
        • Aaron Keller
          In the mid-90s the water was WAY down... allowing one to walk a mile out into what was once open fields. The roads became clear; the foundations of homes
          Message 4 of 6 , Jun 12, 2007
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            In the mid-90s the water was WAY down... allowing one to walk a mile out
            into what was once open fields. The roads became clear; the foundations of
            homes became clear; at one home site I could make out the individual rooms,
            the front stoop, and even the circular outline which was probably a water
            well. The bricks that made a walkway between the road and the front stoop
            were all in place. The bricklayers did a good job building a pattern which
            lasted sixty years underwater.

            One would assume that the water currents are weak; and also keep in mind
            that the water is not incredibly deep.

            In the area where I walked, I could see a maze of tree trunks off in the
            distance; but the mud was too deep and they were too far from the
            abandoned, flooded roadway upon which it was safe to walk. It was a
            complete forest underground.

            Interestingly, when the water is down, the streams go back to their
            original channels; which exist under the lake bed.

            I do know that the foundation and platform of the Cranberry Creek station
            remain in place. I have never found any evidence of rail or ties under the
            water. Paul, is there evidence that everything was saved?

            I have pictures of some of what's under water, if anyone cares to see them.
            I'll try to obtain use of a flatbed scanner.

            Somewhere I also have a few pieces of a glass bowl which were stuck in the
            mud. It seems that some homeowners threw their broken possessions on the
            ground and left them.

            -Aaron


            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "oleroadslug" <suds@...>
            To: <FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Monday, June 11, 2007 5:54 PM
            Subject: [FJGRailroad] Re: Sacandaga


            >
            > Having lived on Great Sacandaga Lake for a large portion of my youth,
            > our family was told back when in the 1930's when the valley was
            > somewhat cleared and Conklinville Dam was done, the sole purpose was
            > to control the spring flooding waters that would hit Schenectady and
            > the Capital District. However, it would not surprise me that logging
            > was a big interest there as well.
            >
            > Boy, did that lake ebb and flow. I have shots of stumps in the middle
            > of the lake just north of the Northampton Campsite, south of
            > Northville. In recent years, yes I have heard of water control for
            > drinking down mid state; but much pressure is coming from locals and
            > tourism to keep that lake at a more user friendly level into fall;
            > then drop it.
            >
            > It used to be a great fishery. Excellent smallmouth, and some walleye
            > if known to be had. Fall and winter larger northerns would be seen.
            > For the longest time, Sacandaga held the world's record for Northern
            > Pike.
            >
            > I'm sure it presently holds a USA record for inland carp. Recent
            > years in the late 1990's or so; they have tried smelt stocking and
            > more aggressive trout stocking. I don't know about the later.
            >
            > Sacandaga River down from Hope and other streams don't contribute a
            > BIG % of water IMHO. The underground springs do.
            >
            > I have a shot of the steam engine in the water. I have also
            > snorkel/scuba dived around the Sacandaga Park area only to find silt
            > and slight timber relics.
            >
            > My largest Northern Pike I caught was at the Park. Still hangs on my
            > wall today. 19# 3 oz. I have two smaller smallmouth bass from there
            > as well. My dad has a 37" walleye (9#) he caught a week before he
            > sold the properties after 28 years there.
            >
            > It hangs in my living room.
            >
            > But this is the FJ&G list, not Sacandaga Saga..
            >
            > Regards,
            >
            > Bob Schoneman
            > Appleton, WI
            >
            >
            >
            > Visit The FJ&G Store At http://www.cafepress.com/fjgrr
            > Visit Pete Seftons Lost Landmark Page
            > http://www.lostlandmarks.org
            > Visit Charles P. Woolever's Existing Railroad Stations in New York State
            > at
            > http://ny.existingstations.com/
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
          • pklarner
            To the best of my information all the rail and equipment was taken out, though not in one action. The following the water came up more rapidly than expected
            Message 5 of 6 , Jun 13, 2007
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              To the best of my information all the rail and equipment was taken
              out, though not in one action. The following the water came up more
              rapidly than expected into the low lands thus stranding a couple cars
              in the water. Also ther was allegedly a mile and one half of track
              unable to be removed at that time. It is unclear whether the gates
              were opened permitting the salvagors to get in and remove that rail.
              The FJ&G pulled up their rail south of that area so any takn out
              after that would have necessarily been hauled out by team.

              The two flat cars could not be removed with steam locomotives due to
              the height of their fireboxes hence a gas car was sent up to pull
              them out. Records I have, indicate the bridges in the lowlands were
              taken out later that Spring, but nothing is said in my resources to
              indicate the rail was either removed or left in. This is presumably
              at the deepest locations of the area where the railraod passed
              through the vlaie.

              PKL


              --- In FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com, "Aaron Keller" <akeller1979@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > In the mid-90s the water was WAY down... allowing one to walk a
              mile out
              > into what was once open fields. The roads became clear; the
              foundations of
              > homes became clear; at one home site I could make out the
              individual rooms,
              > the front stoop, and even the circular outline which was probably a
              water
              > well. The bricks that made a walkway between the road and the
              front stoop
              > were all in place. The bricklayers did a good job building a
              pattern which
              > lasted sixty years underwater.
              >
              > One would assume that the water currents are weak; and also keep in
              mind
              > that the water is not incredibly deep.
              >
              > In the area where I walked, I could see a maze of tree trunks off
              in the
              > distance; but the mud was too deep and they were too far from the
              > abandoned, flooded roadway upon which it was safe to walk. It was
              a
              > complete forest underground.
              >
              > Interestingly, when the water is down, the streams go back to their
              > original channels; which exist under the lake bed.
              >
              > I do know that the foundation and platform of the Cranberry Creek
              station
              > remain in place. I have never found any evidence of rail or ties
              under the
              > water. Paul, is there evidence that everything was saved?
              >
              > I have pictures of some of what's under water, if anyone cares to
              see them.
              > I'll try to obtain use of a flatbed scanner.
              >
              > Somewhere I also have a few pieces of a glass bowl which were stuck
              in the
              > mud. It seems that some homeowners threw their broken possessions
              on the
              > ground and left them.
              >
              > -Aaron
              >
              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: "oleroadslug" <suds@...>
              > To: <FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com>
              > Sent: Monday, June 11, 2007 5:54 PM
              > Subject: [FJGRailroad] Re: Sacandaga
              >
              >
              > >
              > > Having lived on Great Sacandaga Lake for a large portion of my
              youth,
              > > our family was told back when in the 1930's when the valley was
              > > somewhat cleared and Conklinville Dam was done, the sole purpose
              was
              > > to control the spring flooding waters that would hit Schenectady
              and
              > > the Capital District. However, it would not surprise me that
              logging
              > > was a big interest there as well.
              > >
              > > Boy, did that lake ebb and flow. I have shots of stumps in the
              middle
              > > of the lake just north of the Northampton Campsite, south of
              > > Northville. In recent years, yes I have heard of water control
              for
              > > drinking down mid state; but much pressure is coming from locals
              and
              > > tourism to keep that lake at a more user friendly level into fall;
              > > then drop it.
              > >
              > > It used to be a great fishery. Excellent smallmouth, and some
              walleye
              > > if known to be had. Fall and winter larger northerns would be
              seen.
              > > For the longest time, Sacandaga held the world's record for
              Northern
              > > Pike.
              > >
              > > I'm sure it presently holds a USA record for inland carp. Recent
              > > years in the late 1990's or so; they have tried smelt stocking and
              > > more aggressive trout stocking. I don't know about the later.
              > >
              > > Sacandaga River down from Hope and other streams don't contribute
              a
              > > BIG % of water IMHO. The underground springs do.
              > >
              > > I have a shot of the steam engine in the water. I have also
              > > snorkel/scuba dived around the Sacandaga Park area only to find
              silt
              > > and slight timber relics.
              > >
              > > My largest Northern Pike I caught was at the Park. Still hangs on
              my
              > > wall today. 19# 3 oz. I have two smaller smallmouth bass from
              there
              > > as well. My dad has a 37" walleye (9#) he caught a week before he
              > > sold the properties after 28 years there.
              > >
              > > It hangs in my living room.
              > >
              > > But this is the FJ&G list, not Sacandaga Saga..
              > >
              > > Regards,
              > >
              > > Bob Schoneman
              > > Appleton, WI
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Visit The FJ&G Store At http://www.cafepress.com/fjgrr
              > > Visit Pete Seftons Lost Landmark Page
              > > http://www.lostlandmarks.org
              > > Visit Charles P. Woolever's Existing Railroad Stations in New
              York State
              > > at
              > > http://ny.existingstations.com/
              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
            • Dicarlo, Gino
              I asked Bob Bedford if the rail that Number 8 was marooned on was lost to the reservoir. He told me that the submerged rail was recovered a few years later.
              Message 6 of 6 , Jun 16, 2007
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                I asked Bob Bedford if the rail that Number 8 was marooned on was lost to the reservoir.  He told me that the submerged rail was recovered a few years later.  An extremely dry summer caused the water level to drop quite a bit, thus exposing
                the rails again...
                 
                Gino


                From: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pklarner
                Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 8:52 PM
                To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [FJGRailroad] Re: Sacandaga

                To the best of my information all the rail and equipment was taken
                out, though not in one action. The following the water came up more
                rapidly than expected into the low lands thus stranding a couple cars
                in the water. Also ther was allegedly a mile and one half of track
                unable to be removed at that time. It is unclear whether the gates
                were opened permitting the salvagors to get in and remove that rail.
                The FJ&G pulled up their rail south of that area so any takn out
                after that would have necessarily been hauled out by team.

                The two flat cars could not be removed with steam locomotives due to
                the height of their fireboxes hence a gas car was sent up to pull
                them out. Records I have, indicate the bridges in the lowlands were
                taken out later that Spring, but nothing is said in my resources to
                indicate the rail was either removed or left in. This is presumably
                at the deepest locations of the area where the railraod passed
                through the vlaie.

                PKL

                --- In FJGRailroad@ yahoogroups. com, "Aaron Keller" <akeller1979@ ...>
                wrote:

                >
                > In the
                mid-90s the water was WAY down... allowing one to walk a
                mile out
                >
                into what was once open fields. The roads became clear; the
                foundations of
                > homes became clear; at one home site I could make out the
                individual rooms,
                > the front stoop, and even the circular outline
                which was probably a
                water
                > well. The bricks that made a walkway
                between the road and the
                front stoop
                > were all in place. The
                bricklayers did a good job building a
                pattern which
                > lasted sixty
                years underwater.
                >
                > One would assume that the water currents are
                weak; and also keep in
                mind
                > that the water is not incredibly
                deep.
                >
                > In the area where I walked, I could see a maze of tree
                trunks off
                in the
                > distance; but the mud was too deep and they were
                too far from the
                > abandoned, flooded roadway upon which it was safe to
                walk. It was
                a
                > complete forest underground.
                >
                >
                Interestingly, when the water is down, the streams go back to their
                >
                original channels; which exist under the lake bed.
                >
                > I do know
                that the foundation and platform of the Cranberry Creek
                station
                >
                remain in place. I have never found any evidence of rail or ties
                under the
                > water. Paul, is there evidence that everything was saved?
                >
                > I have pictures of some of what's under water, if anyone cares to
                see them.
                > I'll try to obtain use of a flatbed scanner.
                >
                > Somewhere I also have a few pieces of a glass bowl which were stuck
                in the
                > mud. It seems that some homeowners threw their broken
                possessions
                on the
                > ground and left them.
                >
                >
                -Aaron
                >
                >
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From:
                "oleroadslug" <suds@...>
                > To: <
                href="mailto:FJGRailroad%40yahoogroups.com">FJGRailroad@ yahoogroups. com>
                >
                Sent: Monday, June 11, 2007 5:54 PM
                > Subject: [FJGRailroad] Re:
                Sacandaga
                >
                >
                > >
                > > Having lived on Great
                Sacandaga Lake for a large portion of my
                youth,
                > > our family was
                told back when in the 1930's when the valley was
                > > somewhat cleared
                and Conklinville Dam was done, the sole purpose
                was
                > > to control
                the spring flooding waters that would hit Schenectady
                and
                > > the
                Capital District. However, it would not surprise me that
                logging
                > > was a big interest there as well.
                > >
                > > Boy, did that
                lake ebb and flow. I have shots of stumps in the
                middle
                > > of the
                lake just north of the Northampton Campsite, south of
                > > Northville.
                In recent years, yes I have heard of water control
                for
                > > drinking
                down mid state; but much pressure is coming from locals
                and
                > >
                tourism to keep that lake at a more user friendly level into fall;
                > >
                then drop it.
                > >
                > > It used to be a great fishery. Excellent
                smallmouth, and some
                walleye
                > > if known to be had. Fall and
                winter larger northerns would be
                seen.
                > > For the longest time,
                Sacandaga held the world's record for
                Northern
                > > Pike.
                > >
                > > I'm sure it presently holds a USA record for inland carp.
                Recent
                > > years in the late 1990's or so; they have tried smelt
                stocking and
                > > more aggressive trout stocking. I don't know about the
                later.
                > >
                > > Sacandaga River down from Hope and other
                streams don't contribute
                a
                > > BIG % of water IMHO. The underground
                springs do.
                > >
                > > I have a shot of the steam engine in the
                water. I have also
                > > snorkel/scuba dived around the Sacandaga Park
                area only to find
                silt
                > > and slight timber relics.
                > >
                > > My largest Northern Pike I caught was at the Park. Still hangs
                on
                my
                > > wall today. 19# 3 oz. I have two smaller smallmouth bass
                from
                there
                > > as well. My dad has a 37" walleye (9#) he caught a
                week before he
                > > sold the properties after 28 years there.
                > >
                > > It hangs in my living room.
                > >
                > > But this
                is the FJ&G list, not Sacandaga Saga..
                > >
                > >
                Regards,
                > >
                > > Bob Schoneman
                > > Appleton,
                WI
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Visit The FJ&G Store
                At http://www.cafepres s.com/fjgrr
                > > Visit Pete Seftons Lost Landmark Page
                > >
                href="http://www.lostlandmarks.org">http://www.lostland marks.org
                > > Visit Charles P. Woolever's Existing Railroad Stations in New
                York State
                > > at
                > >
                href="http://ny.existingstations.com/">http://ny.existings tations.com/
                > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >

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