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RE: [FJGRailroad] Amtrak

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  • mwilber@webtv.net
    If it ever gets to point where the layoffs get crucial enough and closing of routes;my guess the government would step in and give a helping hand.Amtrak
    Message 1 of 26 , Feb 2, 2002
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      If it ever gets to point where the layoffs get crucial enough and
      closing of routes;my guess the government would step in and give a
      helping hand.Amtrak monopolizes on the rail passenger service,any
      massive interuption would cause a big problem for the country. Mark
    • paul larner
      NO. ... _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
      Message 2 of 26 , Feb 2, 2002
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        NO.


        >From: "Dicarlo, Gino" <Gino.Dicarlo@...>
        >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
        >To: "'FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com'" <FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com>
        >Subject: RE: [FJGRailroad] Amtrak
        >Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2002 15:54:44 -0600
        >
        >That's a pretty big number! The paper this morning says Amtrak
        >with close down routes soon! They're not sure what New York Routes
        >will get cut! Some people say Amtrak is cutting the routes to get
        >more federal funding. To tell you the truth, I want to see the
        >wonderful old D & H PA passenger trains running to Montreal! Heck
        >with Amtrak! I used to love those trains when I was a kid! I can
        >still remember buying a PA dummy when I was a kid because those were
        >my favorite engines to see on the D & H! Paul Larner will have to
        >get a job with the new provider! Wouldn't you like to zip up to
        >Montreal running a PA Paul?
        >
        >Gino
        >
        >-----Original Message-----
        >From: William Powers [mailto:billpowers75@...]
        >Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2002 4:46 PM
        >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
        >Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Amtrak
        >
        >
        >I heard the number was 1000.. There may not be an Amtrak next year at this
        >time.
        >
        >Bill


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      • Dicarlo, Gino
        What s wrong with PAs? Next thing you re gonna tell me is that you don t like Sharks! ... From: paul larner [mailto:pklarner@hotmail.com] Sent: Sunday,
        Message 3 of 26 , Feb 3, 2002
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          What's wrong with PAs? Next thing you're gonna tell me is that you
          don't like Sharks!

          -----Original Message-----
          From: paul larner [mailto:pklarner@...]
          Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2002 12:12 AM
          To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: RE: [FJGRailroad] Amtrak


          NO.
        • mwilber@webtv.net
          Paul wouldnt hold the senority on D&H.He will be working the extra list on the yard job in Saratoga Yard.Or maybe the yard job in Allentown.Better stay where
          Message 4 of 26 , Feb 3, 2002
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            Paul wouldnt hold the senority on D&H.He will be working the extra list
            on the yard job in Saratoga Yard.Or maybe the yard job in
            Allentown.Better stay where you are Paul! Mark
          • dowens15228
            The only place that Amtrak seems to be making money is in the Northeast and the West coast (Acccording to the NY Times). Those profits go to cover the losses
            Message 5 of 26 , Feb 3, 2002
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              The only place that Amtrak seems to be making money is in the
              Northeast and the West coast (Acccording to the NY Times). Those
              profits go to cover the losses from the long-haul service elseware.

              The problem is that Congress has got to decide whether the country
              needs long haul passenger service or not. If so, fund it and accept
              the inevitable losses, if not then shut it down.

              Amtrak wants $1.2B, if I had to vote, I'd give it to them! I would
              hate to think that the only way to travel on a long train trip across
              North America would be to travel to Canada and take VIA's Canadien.

              I love trains, but one of the problems is cost. My wife has to go to
              a writers conference in Taos, NM in March. The round trip airfare
              from Pittsburgh was $230.00, the train was $1800.00. The time
              commitment to fly was about 5 or 6 hours each way (arrive the same
              day) vs nearly 3 days for the train.

              I feel bad for the 1000 workers who are getting laid off.

              Dan Owens

              Dan Owens
            • paul larner
              Only the railfans liked the sharks because they were different. Unfortunately Baldwin didn t get it right in the diesel market dominated by EMD and to some
              Message 6 of 26 , Feb 3, 2002
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                Only the railfans liked the sharks because they were different.
                Unfortunately Baldwin didn't get it right in the diesel market dominated by
                EMD and to some extent ALCo. The PA's were sleek, probably the best looking
                diesel ever built. I don't care for running old, worn out and poorly or
                improperly repaired equipment. Consider the FL9's Amtrak had. I ran them
                so I can say I did, but they're like running an old GP9, so what. I've run
                what I think were Alco (MLW) 636's on the CB&NS, now if you want to talk
                about a lot of locomotive those brutes were in the big leagues in their day.
                You can only imagine what they would do when new. When I got on them they
                were dirty and down but not out and not what you'd like to get on every day
                if there were an new and clean alternative.

                Look at Amtraks F40's. Saved the company from ruin and part of a fleet that
                comprises the largest group of locomotives ever built. A fine locomotive
                when new and maintained. Today and for the past few years that I am aware
                many were plain crappy. They did respond as any older EMD did but they are
                loud, dirty and uncomfortable today. I ran them when they were relatively
                new and well maintained a few times on the CV. Once great engines.

                Locomotives which are neither maintained properly or kept clean and painted
                are kind of like old folks. You have to respect them for what they've
                accomplished and all the rest, but they're only a shadow of their former
                selves.

                PKL


                >From: "Dicarlo, Gino" <Gino.Dicarlo@...>
                >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                >To: "'FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com'" <FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com>
                >Subject: RE: [FJGRailroad] Amtrak
                >Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2002 08:25:35 -0600
                >
                >What's wrong with PAs? Next thing you're gonna tell me is that you
                >don't like Sharks!
                >
                >-----Original Message-----
                >From: paul larner [mailto:pklarner@...]
                >Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2002 12:12 AM
                >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                >Subject: RE: [FJGRailroad] Amtrak
                >
                >
                >NO.
                >




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              • paul larner
                I don t expect to be looking anywhere soon, much less D&H. But this IS the railroad industry and I ve seen it change overnight too many times in the past 36
                Message 7 of 26 , Feb 3, 2002
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                  I don't expect to be looking anywhere soon, much less D&H.

                  But this IS the railroad industry and I've seen it change overnight too many
                  times in the past 36 years to spend a check not already banked. 1000
                  employees can come from the glitter around the brass in Washington and other
                  HQ's. What's being talked about is the fate of intercity. There are a lot
                  of jobs associated with keeping those overnight jobs running that can't be
                  paid for with the revenue from those trains.

                  At least thirteen engineer's jobs associated with 48 and 49 alone between
                  Boston, Albany and Buffalo.

                  PKL


                  >From: mwilber@...
                  >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                  >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                  >Subject: RE: [FJGRailroad] Amtrak
                  >Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2002 10:58:08 -0500 (EST)
                  >
                  >Paul wouldnt hold the senority on D&H.He will be working the extra list
                  >on the yard job in Saratoga Yard.Or maybe the yard job in
                  >Allentown.Better stay where you are Paul! Mark
                  >
                  >
                  >




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                • Knixrule1@juno.com
                  all the engineers I meet just want soft seats and leg room such as a wide cab Paul. Thats where the Canadians win, better lights, better seats, better
                  Message 8 of 26 , Feb 4, 2002
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                    all the engineers I meet just want soft seats and leg room such as a wide
                    cab Paul. Thats where the Canadians win, better lights, better seats,
                    better creature comforts, even a hot plate and microwave.

                    Steve Myers
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                  • Knixrule1@juno.com
                    Amtrak is a political potato, started by Nixon it is still the baby of the democrats. It shows the difference between the two parties belief systems, one to
                    Message 9 of 26 , Feb 4, 2002
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                      Amtrak is a political potato, started by Nixon it is still the baby of
                      the democrats. It shows the difference between the two parties belief
                      systems, one to privatize and the other to control everything. It
                      reminds me of the mess called Conrail in her early years, forever
                      creating five year plans to become profitable but couldn't wean her from
                      the free and easy tax dollars. She was the joke of the railroad industry
                      and lived with names like "different circus-same clowns". It was under
                      Reagan that Conrail was told to crap or get off the pot, Elizabeth Dole
                      as payback for Bobs help getting Ron elected, was named sec of
                      transportation. Bags of money were exchanged and out came Elizabeths
                      backing for the entire system to be sold to the NS. This created the
                      "let Conrail be Conrail" movement and turned big blue into a real
                      railroad. Amtrak is well established in New York state, and we pay very
                      high taxes for such benefits. THe northeast makes money with passenger
                      rail service but when the republicans put the squeeze on Amtrak to be
                      profitable and free of tax dollars, they turn to attract freight from
                      profitable private railroads to attach at the end of their trains.
                      Amtrak tried to bid on the UPS business and take it from the private
                      sector. Is it right for a quasi-governmental company to use your track
                      and then go after your business while supporting themselves with tax
                      dollars ? It is like the post office selling ties and coffee cups while
                      offering poor mail service and Joes Tie Shop next door has to pay
                      property taxes, sales taxes, license and registration fees but is trying
                      to make a living selling ties. Why was super steel built in Schenectady
                      county and the old turbos reserected when there was no need for the
                      factory? Why did state and local politicians flock to the ribbon
                      cutting, but now the doors are quietly closing at super steel, and who
                      payed for the little game of reviving "locomotive building in
                      Schenectady"? There will be an Amtrak and they will grow and cut back
                      depending on who runs Washington, my concern is for the working man just
                      trying to make a living and retirement. I love trains and to me, the
                      more the merrier, but Amtrak does have some problems to solve, if Uncle
                      Sam stepped in back in the 1960's to help passenger service, rather than
                      force, rape, and tax the rail industry to death while paying to build and
                      maintain roads for trucks and busses, rivers and canals for barges, and
                      airports and controllers for planes, we might have a better rail system
                      for passengers.


                      Steve Myers
                      ________________________________________________________________
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                    • mwilber@webtv.net
                      Paul-Are you usually alone in the cab,or are there two of you like the frieght jobs?Mark
                      Message 10 of 26 , Feb 4, 2002
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                        Paul-Are you usually alone in the cab,or are there two of you like the
                        frieght jobs?Mark
                      • mwilber@webtv.net
                        Steve-Dont forget arm rests,air conditioning and seats that recline. Mark
                        Message 11 of 26 , Feb 4, 2002
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                          Steve-Dont forget arm rests,air conditioning and seats that recline.
                          Mark
                        • Richard A. Finn
                          Steve, It s called PORK by the politicians.
                          Message 12 of 26 , Feb 4, 2002
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                            Steve,  It's called "PORK" by the politicians.

                            Knixrule1@... wrote:

                             Amtrak is a political potato, started by Nixon it is still the baby of
                            the democrats.  It shows the difference between the two parties belief
                            systems, one to privatize and the other to control everything.  It
                            reminds me of the mess called Conrail in her early years, forever
                            creating five year plans to become profitable but couldn't  wean her from
                            the free and easy tax dollars.  She was the joke of the railroad industry
                            and lived with names like "different circus-same clowns".  It was under
                            Reagan that Conrail was told to crap or get off the pot, Elizabeth Dole
                            as payback for Bobs help getting Ron elected, was named sec of
                            transportation.  Bags of money were exchanged and out came Elizabeths
                            backing for the entire system to be sold to the NS.  This created the
                            "let Conrail be Conrail" movement and turned big blue into a real
                            railroad.  Amtrak is well established in New York state, and we pay very
                            high taxes for such benefits.  THe northeast makes money with passenger
                            rail service but when the republicans put the squeeze on Amtrak to be
                            profitable and free of tax dollars, they turn to attract freight from
                            profitable private railroads to attach at the end of their trains.
                            Amtrak tried to bid on the UPS business and take it from the private
                            sector.  Is it right for a quasi-governmental company to use your track
                            and then go after your business while supporting themselves with tax
                            dollars ?  It is like the post office selling ties and coffee cups while
                            offering poor mail service and Joes Tie Shop next door has to pay
                            property taxes, sales taxes, license and registration fees but is trying
                            to make a living selling ties.  Why was super steel built in Schenectady
                            county and the old turbos reserected when there was no need for the
                            factory?  Why did state and local politicians flock to the ribbon
                            cutting, but now the doors are quietly closing at super steel, and who
                            payed for the little game of reviving "locomotive building in
                            Schenectady"?  There will be an Amtrak and they will grow and cut back
                            depending on who runs Washington, my concern is for the working man just
                            trying to make a living and retirement.  I love trains and to me, the
                            more the merrier, but Amtrak does have some problems to solve, if Uncle
                            Sam stepped in back in the 1960's to help passenger service, rather than
                            force, rape, and tax the rail industry to death while paying to build and
                            maintain roads for trucks and busses, rivers and canals for barges, and
                            airports and controllers for planes, we might have a better rail system
                            for passengers.
                             

                                Steve Myers
                            ________________________________________________________________

                          • Knixrule1@juno.com
                            Alone. Mark, you have no signals on the Susie-Q ? The D & H has to wait for a form D every time they leave Selkirk yard. Steve
                            Message 13 of 26 , Feb 4, 2002
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                              Alone. Mark, you have no signals on the Susie-Q ? The D & H has to wait
                              for a form D every time they leave Selkirk yard.

                              Steve
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                            • mwilber@webtv.net
                              Steve-Only signal we have on the whole NYSW is at Chenango Forks.They just put in an automatic switch,so it to became an interlocking CP Forks.Of course when
                              Message 14 of 26 , Feb 4, 2002
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                                Steve-Only signal we have on the whole NYSW is at Chenango Forks.They
                                just put in an automatic switch,so it to became an interlocking CP
                                Forks.Of course when we run to NJ we have signals on the NS Southern
                                Tier from CP BD to CP HJ. At CP HJ we then go onto the Hudson Secondary
                                (Form D Territory) to station point Pelton.At Pelton then the tracks
                                become the NYSW (southern Div.) all the way to Little Ferry NJ. From CP
                                BD to CP HJ is about 130 miles and CP HJ to Pelton is about 20 miles.
                                From Binghamton to Little Ferry is about a total 250 miles.If we have
                                clear signals all the way we can do it in 9 hours. Mark
                              • paul larner
                                Canadian workers enjoy a leverage against corporate domination not known by the US worker. ...
                                Message 15 of 26 , Feb 5, 2002
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                                  Canadian workers enjoy a leverage against corporate domination not known by
                                  the US worker.

                                  >From: Knixrule1@...
                                  >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                                  >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                                  >Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Amtrak
                                  >Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 08:58:52 -0500
                                  >
                                  >all the engineers I meet just want soft seats and leg room such as a wide
                                  >cab Paul. Thats where the Canadians win, better lights, better seats,
                                  >better creature comforts, even a hot plate and microwave.
                                  >
                                  > Steve Myers
                                  >________________________________________________________________
                                  >GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
                                  >Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
                                  >Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
                                  >http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.


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                                • paul larner
                                  The Amtrak engineer is usually alone. Jobs which operate over six hours straight away receive a second engineer by contract. The Rutland job is some sort of
                                  Message 16 of 26 , Feb 5, 2002
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                                    The Amtrak engineer is usually alone. Jobs which operate over six hours
                                    straight away receive a second engineer by contract. The Rutland job is
                                    some sort of anomaly. While operating less than six hours straight away,
                                    there is no time at Rutland during the day for a break so a second man is
                                    supplied by assigning two of the Montreal job second engineers to the train
                                    as their fifth day. There is a nother day filled out by someone and for the
                                    rest of it a man is placed on the job from the spare board. The night job
                                    is given a second engineer when the spare board is slow to work off the
                                    guarantee. On the night job we are not let out of Rutland until the VTR's
                                    Whitehall freight leaves so there is a bit of time for a mealbreak.

                                    PKL


                                    >From: mwilber@...
                                    >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                                    >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                                    >Subject: RE: [FJGRailroad] Amtrak
                                    >Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 10:26:01 -0500 (EST)
                                    >
                                    >Paul-Are you usually alone in the cab,or are there two of you like the
                                    >frieght jobs?Mark
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >


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                                  • paul larner
                                    That s important to keep in mind. A principal function of Amtrak is to provide pork in the politician s district. Pork keeps the poor folks fed and the
                                    Message 17 of 26 , Feb 5, 2002
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                                      That's important to keep in mind. A principal function of Amtrak is to
                                      provide pork in the politician's district. Pork keeps the poor folks fed
                                      and the politicians fat. Many of us decry pork but a far greater number of
                                      us live off it, not just Amtrak - everywhere. Pork is good for the US
                                      economy. Back to Canada, they call their pork socialism.

                                      It's a form of redistribution. Just depends on whose getting forked and
                                      who's eating. Everybody gets their share, rich and poor alike.
                                      Unfortunately it's the middle income earner who is paying a disproportionate
                                      share of the bill. Reagan nailed us to the cross with his tax increases,
                                      then Bush1; nasty Bill did a major restructuring with his tax package (I
                                      believe his only piece of legislation he ever got through in 8 years) when
                                      he still had a Democratic congress in 1993 when he redistributed the burde
                                      to the very wealth and corporations. He redistributed a significant amount
                                      down to the lower income levels be he too provided nothing to the working
                                      middle class (40 to 200 M)

                                      What's this got to do with railroads?

                                      PKL



                                      >From: "Richard A. Finn" <ransjfinn@...>
                                      >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                                      >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                                      >Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Amtrak
                                      >Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 10:38:31 -0500
                                      >
                                      >Steve, It's called "PORK" by the politicians.
                                      >
                                      >Knixrule1@... wrote:
                                      >
                                      > > Amtrak is a political potato, started by Nixon it is still the baby
                                      > > of
                                      > > the democrats. It shows the difference between the two parties belief
                                      > >
                                      > > systems, one to privatize and the other to control everything. It
                                      > > reminds me of the mess called Conrail in her early years, forever
                                      > > creating five year plans to become profitable but couldn't wean her
                                      > > from
                                      > > the free and easy tax dollars. She was the joke of the railroad
                                      > > industry
                                      > > and lived with names like "different circus-same clowns". It was
                                      > > under
                                      > > Reagan that Conrail was told to crap or get off the pot, Elizabeth
                                      > > Dole
                                      > > as payback for Bobs help getting Ron elected, was named sec of
                                      > > transportation. Bags of money were exchanged and out came Elizabeths
                                      > > backing for the entire system to be sold to the NS. This created the
                                      > > "let Conrail be Conrail" movement and turned big blue into a real
                                      > > railroad. Amtrak is well established in New York state, and we pay
                                      > > very
                                      > > high taxes for such benefits. THe northeast makes money with
                                      > > passenger
                                      > > rail service but when the republicans put the squeeze on Amtrak to be
                                      > > profitable and free of tax dollars, they turn to attract freight from
                                      > > profitable private railroads to attach at the end of their trains.
                                      > > Amtrak tried to bid on the UPS business and take it from the private
                                      > > sector. Is it right for a quasi-governmental company to use your
                                      > > track
                                      > > and then go after your business while supporting themselves with tax
                                      > > dollars ? It is like the post office selling ties and coffee cups
                                      > > while
                                      > > offering poor mail service and Joes Tie Shop next door has to pay
                                      > > property taxes, sales taxes, license and registration fees but is
                                      > > trying
                                      > > to make a living selling ties. Why was super steel built in
                                      > > Schenectady
                                      > > county and the old turbos reserected when there was no need for the
                                      > > factory? Why did state and local politicians flock to the ribbon
                                      > > cutting, but now the doors are quietly closing at super steel, and who
                                      > >
                                      > > payed for the little game of reviving "locomotive building in
                                      > > Schenectady"? There will be an Amtrak and they will grow and cut back
                                      > >
                                      > > depending on who runs Washington, my concern is for the working man
                                      > > just
                                      > > trying to make a living and retirement. I love trains and to me, the
                                      > > more the merrier, but Amtrak does have some problems to solve, if
                                      > > Uncle
                                      > > Sam stepped in back in the 1960's to help passenger service, rather
                                      > > than
                                      > > force, rape, and tax the rail industry to death while paying to build
                                      > > and
                                      > > maintain roads for trucks and busses, rivers and canals for barges,
                                      > > and
                                      > > airports and controllers for planes, we might have a better rail
                                      > > system
                                      > > for passengers.
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > Steve Myers
                                      > > ________________________________________________________________


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                                    • Knixrule1@juno.com
                                      Paul, I have strong conservative leanings, but I agree with you. Oh the poor working man, how long can they pile these bricks on his back? Steve On Tue, 05
                                      Message 18 of 26 , Feb 5, 2002
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                                        Paul,

                                        I have strong conservative leanings, but I agree with you. Oh the
                                        poor working man, how long can they pile these bricks on his back?

                                        Steve

                                        On Tue, 05 Feb 2002 11:06:47 -0500 "paul larner" <pklarner@...>
                                        writes:
                                        > That's important to keep in mind. A principal function of Amtrak is
                                        > to
                                        > provide pork in the politician's district. Pork keeps the poor
                                        > folks fed
                                        > and the politicians fat. Many of us decry pork but a far greater
                                        > number of
                                        > us live off it, not just Amtrak - everywhere. Pork is good for the
                                        > US
                                        > economy. Back to Canada, they call their pork socialism.
                                        >
                                        > It's a form of redistribution. Just depends on whose getting forked
                                        > and
                                        > who's eating. Everybody gets their share, rich and poor alike.
                                        > Unfortunately it's the middle income earner who is paying a
                                        > disproportionate
                                        > share of the bill. Reagan nailed us to the cross with his tax
                                        > increases,
                                        > then Bush1; nasty Bill did a major restructuring with his tax
                                        > package (I
                                        > believe his only piece of legislation he ever got through in 8
                                        > years) when
                                        > he still had a Democratic congress in 1993 when he redistributed the
                                        > burde
                                        > to the very wealth and corporations. He redistributed a significant
                                        > amount
                                        > down to the lower income levels be he too provided nothing to the
                                        > working
                                        > middle class (40 to 200 M)
                                        >
                                        > What's this got to do with railroads?
                                        >
                                        > PKL
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > >From: "Richard A. Finn" <ransjfinn@...>
                                        > >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                                        > >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                                        > >Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Amtrak
                                        > >Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 10:38:31 -0500
                                        > >
                                        > >Steve, It's called "PORK" by the politicians.
                                        > >
                                        > >Knixrule1@... wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > > > Amtrak is a political potato, started by Nixon it is still the
                                        > baby
                                        > > > of
                                        > > > the democrats. It shows the difference between the two parties
                                        > belief
                                        > > >
                                        > > > systems, one to privatize and the other to control everything.
                                        > It
                                        > > > reminds me of the mess called Conrail in her early years, forever
                                        > > > creating five year plans to become profitable but couldn't wean
                                        > her
                                        > > > from
                                        > > > the free and easy tax dollars. She was the joke of the railroad
                                        > > > industry
                                        > > > and lived with names like "different circus-same clowns". It was
                                        > > > under
                                        > > > Reagan that Conrail was told to crap or get off the pot,
                                        > Elizabeth
                                        > > > Dole
                                        > > > as payback for Bobs help getting Ron elected, was named sec of
                                        > > > transportation. Bags of money were exchanged and out came
                                        > Elizabeths
                                        > > > backing for the entire system to be sold to the NS. This
                                        > created the
                                        > > > "let Conrail be Conrail" movement and turned big blue into a real
                                        > > > railroad. Amtrak is well established in New York state, and we
                                        > pay
                                        > > > very
                                        > > > high taxes for such benefits. THe northeast makes money with
                                        > > > passenger
                                        > > > rail service but when the republicans put the squeeze on Amtrak
                                        > to be
                                        > > > profitable and free of tax dollars, they turn to attract freight
                                        > from
                                        > > > profitable private railroads to attach at the end of their
                                        > trains.
                                        > > > Amtrak tried to bid on the UPS business and take it from the
                                        > private
                                        > > > sector. Is it right for a quasi-governmental company to use your
                                        > > > track
                                        > > > and then go after your business while supporting themselves with
                                        > tax
                                        > > > dollars ? It is like the post office selling ties and coffee
                                        > cups
                                        > > > while
                                        > > > offering poor mail service and Joes Tie Shop next door has to pay
                                        > > > property taxes, sales taxes, license and registration fees but is
                                        > > > trying
                                        > > > to make a living selling ties. Why was super steel built in
                                        > > > Schenectady
                                        > > > county and the old turbos reserected when there was no need for
                                        > the
                                        > > > factory? Why did state and local politicians flock to the ribbon
                                        > > > cutting, but now the doors are quietly closing at super steel,
                                        > and who
                                        > > >
                                        > > > payed for the little game of reviving "locomotive building in
                                        > > > Schenectady"? There will be an Amtrak and they will grow and
                                        > cut back
                                        > > >
                                        > > > depending on who runs Washington, my concern is for the working
                                        > man
                                        > > > just
                                        > > > trying to make a living and retirement. I love trains and to
                                        > me, the
                                        > > > more the merrier, but Amtrak does have some problems to solve, if
                                        > > > Uncle
                                        > > > Sam stepped in back in the 1960's to help passenger service,
                                        > rather
                                        > > > than
                                        > > > force, rape, and tax the rail industry to death while paying to
                                        > build
                                        > > > and
                                        > > > maintain roads for trucks and busses, rivers and canals for
                                        > barges,
                                        > > > and
                                        > > > airports and controllers for planes, we might have a better rail
                                        > > > system
                                        > > > for passengers.
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Steve Myers
                                        > > > ________________________________________________________________
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > _________________________________________________________________
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                                      • cbrozek@rinstitute.org
                                        Wow, I sent this two days ago! Hey, Yahoo is about as good as the USPS! Anyone have more info on that Amtrak Autotrain crash in Crescent City, FL earlier?
                                        Message 19 of 26 , Apr 19, 2002
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          RE: [FJGRailroad] S-1/CACV
                                          Wow, I sent this two days ago!  Hey, Yahoo is about as good as the USPS!
                                           
                                          Anyone have more info on that Amtrak Autotrain crash in Crescent City, FL earlier?
                                           
                                          Chris
                                          -----Original Message-----
                                          From: cbrozek@... [mailto:cbrozek@...]
                                          Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 4:04 PM
                                          To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                                          Subject: RE: [FJGRailroad] S-1/CACV

                                          I found these photos of S1 and S2 units from SOO and WP.  Hope this helps.
                                           
                                          Chris
                                          -----Original Message-----
                                          From: Dicarlo, Gino [mailto:Gino.Dicarlo@...]
                                          Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 3:33 PM
                                          To: 'FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com'
                                          Subject: RE: [FJGRailroad] S-1/CACV

                                          Chris,
                                           
                                          You do know I was talking about a full scale, running engine, right?  I think Randy wanted to know
                                          how close it looked to an S-2 to see if it was worth painting up like FJG/20 & 21.  An S-1 looks way
                                          different than an S-2!  The LHRS needs a full scale, running locomotive for their tourist line!
                                           
                                          Gino
                                          -----Original Message-----
                                          From: cbrozek@... [mailto:cbrozek@...]
                                          Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 2:33 PM
                                          To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                                          Subject: RE: [FJGRailroad] S-1/CACV

                                          Model Railroader had a review of an Atlas S1 or S2 some time back and in the review they talked about the differences between each.  I think the main differences were the size and position of the radiators and the horsepower.

                                          Chris B.


                                          Visit Gino's Railpage, Now at http://www.fjgrr.com

                                          Visit The Greater Capital District Railfan Assocation At http://www.trainweb.com/gcdra/

                                          Visit The Site For Existing Railroad Stations
                                          in New York State at
                                          http://ny.existingstations.com/


                                          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

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                                        • Stephen G. Myers
                                          Much is true here, Amtrak is a democrat baby with no real reason to tighten its belt since it is on the nipple of the taxpayer. it is a bottomless pit, all
                                          Message 20 of 26 , Nov 11, 2005
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            Much is true here, Amtrak is a democrat baby with no real reason to
                                            tighten its belt since it is on the nipple of the taxpayer. it is a
                                            bottomless pit, all the political appointees have been democrat clowns
                                            like Dukakis, now Bush is bad to fill posts with republicans? It is hard
                                            to be a train buff and watch a decline in any type of rail service, but
                                            the choice is to cut spending somewhere or grow the government even more.
                                            Conrail was the same scenario, don't tighten the belt because Uncle Sam
                                            will pay the bills. It was only in the 1980's that Ronald Reagan put the
                                            squeeze on Conrail and it turned into a well run company. My concern is
                                            to see a good rail passenger service in America, paying fair and
                                            competitive wages. Like the postal service or public transportation, it
                                            will not turn a profit, so what price are we the taxpayers willing to
                                            pay? Don't get me wrong, I feel that both parties are evil and corrupt,
                                            but I do favor the core values of one party, too bad they don't stick to
                                            them.

                                            Steve



                                            On Fri, 11 Nov 2005 11:17:31 -0500 "paul larner" <pklarner@...>
                                            writes:
                                            > I only know what I've heard from a couple guys supposedly up on the
                                            > rr world
                                            > and what little I've read. Gunn was good for Amtrak; he acted like
                                            > a
                                            > railroad manager - non of the touchey feeley bs we had with
                                            > Warrington.
                                            > Passenger service on the rail is a public service and will never
                                            > make money
                                            > if done right, meaning provide sservice and reasonably comfortably.
                                            > It
                                            > costs lots of capital dollars for redundancy to ensure
                                            > dependability.
                                            > Remember when railroads kept locomotives under steam and in reserve
                                            > to
                                            > rpotect their passenger trains? Today nothing is in reserve with
                                            > facilities, equipmentand staffing at a minimum. Legitimate concern
                                            > can be
                                            > made of over staffing at the middle management level. There are too
                                            > many
                                            > "staff" positions at Amtrak, but regard that this is not limited to
                                            > Amtrak.
                                            > Many companies have made efforts to remove levels of management then
                                            > back
                                            > filled a bit. Amtrak needs to do some of that - in the right
                                            > places. Tough
                                            > to fire a congressman's relative, contributor or an EOC
                                            > promotion/hiree.
                                            >
                                            > The Bush administration wants to separate the nations passenger
                                            > service from
                                            > the federal government, not necessarily a bad thing. They have made
                                            > an offer
                                            > to match state funds where the states want to keep or add needed
                                            > service
                                            > thus while Amtrak may go passenger service won't, if the individual
                                            > states
                                            > pick up the bill. New York is a state that receives substantial
                                            > Amtrak
                                            > service but contribute practically nothing compared to VT, MA, ME;
                                            > to get
                                            > out of New England, consider the contributions of CA OR IL WI MI and
                                            > others
                                            > for the operation of trains in their states. The issue to some
                                            > extent is
                                            > the flyover states don't like paying the bill for trainns ilke 48/49
                                            > which
                                            > have no justification considering their undependable schedules and
                                            > fares.
                                            >
                                            > Gunn appears to believe that the feds should keep control and fund
                                            > Amtrak in
                                            > the same way they support so many other industries and
                                            > transportation
                                            > systems. This isn't a bad position either but it conflicts with the
                                            >
                                            > administration. Frankly I believe cronyism is at work here too.
                                            > Any spin
                                            > off or dissolution would benefit someone and we need to know who the
                                            > players
                                            > are and their relationship if any with principals in the republican
                                            > party.
                                            > It appears Gunn wasn't having any of it. Note that John Snow, read
                                            > CSX, is
                                            > secretary of the treasury. CSX is Amtrak's no. 1 destroyer of
                                            > service.
                                            > Their inability to get their own act together has earned them the
                                            > worst
                                            > reputation in the industry for service. My thought without facts is
                                            > that it
                                            > has exceeeds the fiasco of mis judgement following the UP-SP merger.
                                            > Amtrak
                                            > is a fly in their balm; having it gone would facilitate their
                                            > overburdened
                                            > system. Bottom line is Gunn was good for Amtrak. IF you accept
                                            > that the
                                            > fed should fund rail service the same way if funds the airports and
                                            >
                                            > interstate highway sytem then you should support Gunn. Both
                                            > positions have
                                            > merit but the Bush guys have a tendency to do things without
                                            > thinking them
                                            > through. My votes with Gunn.
                                            >
                                            > PKL
                                            >
                                            > >From: "Dicarlo, Gino" <Gino.Dicarlo@...>
                                            > >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                                            > >To: <FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com>
                                            > >Subject: RE: [FJGRailroad] FW: statement from Dave Gunn
                                            > >Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 06:07:17 -0600
                                            > >
                                            > >What's going on here Paul. How do you feel about this?
                                            > >
                                            > >Gino
                                            > >
                                            > >-----Original Message-----
                                            > >From: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                                            > [mailto:FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com]
                                            > >On Behalf Of paul larner
                                            > >Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2005 11:33 PM
                                            > >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                                            > >Subject: [FJGRailroad] FW: statement from Dave Gunn
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > >From: CRengineer@...
                                            > > >To: CRengineer@...
                                            > > >Subject: statement from Dave Gunn Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 21:57:43
                                            > EST
                                            > > >
                                            > > >"The Board members came in this morning and asked me to resign.
                                            > I
                                            > > >refused,
                                            > > >so
                                            > > >they fired me," Gunn said in an interview with Railway Age
                                            > Editor
                                            > >William
                                            > > >C.
                                            > > >Vantuono.
                                            > > >
                                            > > >"I feel at least that I did the right, honorable thing. I wasn't
                                            > going
                                            > > >to abandon our people." He said that the Bush Administrations
                                            > people
                                            > > >wanted to implement their plan, which is destroying Amtrak. "I
                                            > stood in
                                            > >
                                            > > >their way," he said. "That's why they fired me..."
                                            > > >
                                            > > >"If you want an example of getting fired for producing good
                                            > numbers,
                                            > > >this
                                            > > >is
                                            > > >it," he said. "It's an upside-down world we live in..."
                                            > > >
                                            > > >"Anything they all tell you is bullshit," Gunn told Railway Age
                                            > in his
                                            > > >characteristically frank, shoot-from-the hip manner. Citing the
                                            > 93-6
                                            > > >vote in the Senate approving an Amtrak reauthorization bill
                                            > earmarking
                                            > > >nearly $12 billion in
                                            > > >mostly capital investment over the next few years, Gunn said it
                                            > doesn't
                                            > > >compute. "The Administration is serious about taking this place
                                            > >apart..."
                                            > > >
                                            > > >What happens next? The Administration is running out of time,
                                            > Gunn told
                                            > >
                                            > > >Railway Age. "They have to do a lot of the dirty stuff this
                                            > year,
                                            > > >because next year is an election year, and what they've got in
                                            > mind
                                            > > >will be very unpopular."
                                            > >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
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                                          • SheilaDanylak@aol.com
                                            Well put Steve... couldn t agree with you more.... Phil and Sheila
                                            Message 21 of 26 , Nov 11, 2005
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                                              Well put Steve... couldn't agree with you more....
                                                                                                                       Phil and Sheila
                                            • paul larner
                                              The vote on the Amtrak funding bill which was overwhelmingly bi partisan provided sufficient funding for enough years forward to protect Amtrak from the
                                              Message 22 of 26 , Nov 11, 2005
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                The vote on the Amtrak funding bill which was overwhelmingly bi partisan
                                                provided sufficient funding for enough years forward to protect Amtrak from
                                                the cronyism of the Bush administration in their give away of Amtrak and its
                                                assets. If Amtrak went bankrupt who do you think would get the Penn
                                                Station property? The cronies who now hold the mortgage. And what of the
                                                rest of it's assets. The name Timothy Mellon comes to mind and what his
                                                grab was on the B&M - real estate. This water is deep.

                                                Amtrak has issues, no denial. Much of those problems come from underfunding
                                                of the capital needs. If amtrak were treated like the other transportation
                                                entities funded by the national government, comparisons could more easily be
                                                made (and they could be more easily hidden) Is rail transportation more
                                                important to the national economy that air or highway transport? Hard to
                                                tell but I don't believe this administration believes it is.

                                                Thought just ran through my mind - when you talk about not trusting either
                                                party - you know it is quite possible this administration doesn't really
                                                care one whit what's best for the country - only what's best for themselves.

                                                Public servants no longer see their responsibilities as public service.
                                                They concentrate on getting reelected. Remember John Kennedy's statement:
                                                "Ask not what my country can do for me, but what can I do for my country?"
                                                Where is that spirit today. Appropriate on Veterans Day when men, who long
                                                ago passed the age when men went to war, are now taken from established jobs
                                                and growing families to possibly die for our freedom. I hope we will all
                                                say thank you when we meet a young man or woman who has served. (That's
                                                from my perspective. Some of you who read this may find those serving
                                                overseas today are half a generation older than you.)

                                                PKL

                                                >From: "Stephen G. Myers" <Knixrule1@...>
                                                >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                                                >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                                                >Subject: [FJGRailroad] Amtrak
                                                >Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 12:27:30 -0500
                                                >
                                                > Much is true here, Amtrak is a democrat baby with no real reason to
                                                >tighten its belt since it is on the nipple of the taxpayer. it is a
                                                >bottomless pit, all the political appointees have been democrat clowns
                                                >like Dukakis, now Bush is bad to fill posts with republicans? It is hard
                                                >to be a train buff and watch a decline in any type of rail service, but
                                                >the choice is to cut spending somewhere or grow the government even more.
                                                > Conrail was the same scenario, don't tighten the belt because Uncle Sam
                                                >will pay the bills. It was only in the 1980's that Ronald Reagan put the
                                                >squeeze on Conrail and it turned into a well run company. My concern is
                                                >to see a good rail passenger service in America, paying fair and
                                                >competitive wages. Like the postal service or public transportation, it
                                                >will not turn a profit, so what price are we the taxpayers willing to
                                                >pay? Don't get me wrong, I feel that both parties are evil and corrupt,
                                                >but I do favor the core values of one party, too bad they don't stick to
                                                >them.
                                                >
                                                > Steve
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >On Fri, 11 Nov 2005 11:17:31 -0500 "paul larner" <pklarner@...>
                                                >writes:
                                                > > I only know what I've heard from a couple guys supposedly up on the
                                                > > rr world
                                                > > and what little I've read. Gunn was good for Amtrak; he acted like
                                                > > a
                                                > > railroad manager - non of the touchey feeley bs we had with
                                                > > Warrington.
                                                > > Passenger service on the rail is a public service and will never
                                                > > make money
                                                > > if done right, meaning provide sservice and reasonably comfortably.
                                                > > It
                                                > > costs lots of capital dollars for redundancy to ensure
                                                > > dependability.
                                                > > Remember when railroads kept locomotives under steam and in reserve
                                                > > to
                                                > > rpotect their passenger trains? Today nothing is in reserve with
                                                > > facilities, equipmentand staffing at a minimum. Legitimate concern
                                                > > can be
                                                > > made of over staffing at the middle management level. There are too
                                                > > many
                                                > > "staff" positions at Amtrak, but regard that this is not limited to
                                                > > Amtrak.
                                                > > Many companies have made efforts to remove levels of management then
                                                > > back
                                                > > filled a bit. Amtrak needs to do some of that - in the right
                                                > > places. Tough
                                                > > to fire a congressman's relative, contributor or an EOC
                                                > > promotion/hiree.
                                                > >
                                                > > The Bush administration wants to separate the nations passenger
                                                > > service from
                                                > > the federal government, not necessarily a bad thing. They have made
                                                > > an offer
                                                > > to match state funds where the states want to keep or add needed
                                                > > service
                                                > > thus while Amtrak may go passenger service won't, if the individual
                                                > > states
                                                > > pick up the bill. New York is a state that receives substantial
                                                > > Amtrak
                                                > > service but contribute practically nothing compared to VT, MA, ME;
                                                > > to get
                                                > > out of New England, consider the contributions of CA OR IL WI MI and
                                                > > others
                                                > > for the operation of trains in their states. The issue to some
                                                > > extent is
                                                > > the flyover states don't like paying the bill for trainns ilke 48/49
                                                > > which
                                                > > have no justification considering their undependable schedules and
                                                > > fares.
                                                > >
                                                > > Gunn appears to believe that the feds should keep control and fund
                                                > > Amtrak in
                                                > > the same way they support so many other industries and
                                                > > transportation
                                                > > systems. This isn't a bad position either but it conflicts with the
                                                > >
                                                > > administration. Frankly I believe cronyism is at work here too.
                                                > > Any spin
                                                > > off or dissolution would benefit someone and we need to know who the
                                                > > players
                                                > > are and their relationship if any with principals in the republican
                                                > > party.
                                                > > It appears Gunn wasn't having any of it. Note that John Snow, read
                                                > > CSX, is
                                                > > secretary of the treasury. CSX is Amtrak's no. 1 destroyer of
                                                > > service.
                                                > > Their inability to get their own act together has earned them the
                                                > > worst
                                                > > reputation in the industry for service. My thought without facts is
                                                > > that it
                                                > > has exceeeds the fiasco of mis judgement following the UP-SP merger.
                                                > > Amtrak
                                                > > is a fly in their balm; having it gone would facilitate their
                                                > > overburdened
                                                > > system. Bottom line is Gunn was good for Amtrak. IF you accept
                                                > > that the
                                                > > fed should fund rail service the same way if funds the airports and
                                                > >
                                                > > interstate highway sytem then you should support Gunn. Both
                                                > > positions have
                                                > > merit but the Bush guys have a tendency to do things without
                                                > > thinking them
                                                > > through. My votes with Gunn.
                                                > >
                                                > > PKL
                                                > >
                                                > > >From: "Dicarlo, Gino" <Gino.Dicarlo@...>
                                                > > >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                                                > > >To: <FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com>
                                                > > >Subject: RE: [FJGRailroad] FW: statement from Dave Gunn
                                                > > >Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 06:07:17 -0600
                                                > > >
                                                > > >What's going on here Paul. How do you feel about this?
                                                > > >
                                                > > >Gino
                                                > > >
                                                > > >-----Original Message-----
                                                > > >From: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                                                > > [mailto:FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com]
                                                > > >On Behalf Of paul larner
                                                > > >Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2005 11:33 PM
                                                > > >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                                                > > >Subject: [FJGRailroad] FW: statement from Dave Gunn
                                                > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > > > >From: CRengineer@...
                                                > > > >To: CRengineer@...
                                                > > > >Subject: statement from Dave Gunn Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 21:57:43
                                                > > EST
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > >"The Board members came in this morning and asked me to resign.
                                                > > I
                                                > > > >refused,
                                                > > > >so
                                                > > > >they fired me," Gunn said in an interview with Railway Age
                                                > > Editor
                                                > > >William
                                                > > > >C.
                                                > > > >Vantuono.
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > >"I feel at least that I did the right, honorable thing. I wasn't
                                                > > going
                                                > > > >to abandon our people." He said that the Bush Administrations
                                                > > people
                                                > > > >wanted to implement their plan, which is destroying Amtrak. "I
                                                > > stood in
                                                > > >
                                                > > > >their way," he said. "That's why they fired me..."
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > >"If you want an example of getting fired for producing good
                                                > > numbers,
                                                > > > >this
                                                > > > >is
                                                > > > >it," he said. "It's an upside-down world we live in..."
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > >"Anything they all tell you is bullshit," Gunn told Railway Age
                                                > > in his
                                                > > > >characteristically frank, shoot-from-the hip manner. Citing the
                                                > > 93-6
                                                > > > >vote in the Senate approving an Amtrak reauthorization bill
                                                > > earmarking
                                                > > > >nearly $12 billion in
                                                > > > >mostly capital investment over the next few years, Gunn said it
                                                > > doesn't
                                                > > > >compute. "The Administration is serious about taking this place
                                                > > >apart..."
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > >What happens next? The Administration is running out of time,
                                                > > Gunn told
                                                > > >
                                                > > > >Railway Age. "They have to do a lot of the dirty stuff this
                                                > > year,
                                                > > > >because next year is an election year, and what they've got in
                                                > > mind
                                                > > > >will be very unpopular."
                                                > > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                                >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > > Visit The FJ&G Store At http://www.cafepress.com/fjgrr
                                                > > Visit Pete Seftons Lost Landmark Page
                                                > > http://www.lostlandmarks.org
                                                > > Visit Charles P. Woolever's Existing Railroad Stations in New York
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