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RE: [FJGRailroad] Amtrak

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  • Dicarlo, Gino
    That s a pretty big number! The paper this morning says Amtrak with close down routes soon! They re not sure what New York Routes will get cut! Some people
    Message 1 of 26 , Feb 2, 2002
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      That's a pretty big number! The paper this morning says Amtrak
      with close down routes soon! They're not sure what New York Routes
      will get cut! Some people say Amtrak is cutting the routes to get
      more federal funding. To tell you the truth, I want to see the
      wonderful old D & H PA passenger trains running to Montreal! Heck
      with Amtrak! I used to love those trains when I was a kid! I can
      still remember buying a PA dummy when I was a kid because those were
      my favorite engines to see on the D & H! Paul Larner will have to
      get a job with the new provider! Wouldn't you like to zip up to
      Montreal running a PA Paul?

      Gino

      -----Original Message-----
      From: William Powers [mailto:billpowers75@...]
      Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2002 4:46 PM
      To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Amtrak


      I heard the number was 1000.. There may not be an Amtrak next year at this
      time.

      Bill
    • mwilber@webtv.net
      If it ever gets to point where the layoffs get crucial enough and closing of routes;my guess the government would step in and give a helping hand.Amtrak
      Message 2 of 26 , Feb 2, 2002
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        If it ever gets to point where the layoffs get crucial enough and
        closing of routes;my guess the government would step in and give a
        helping hand.Amtrak monopolizes on the rail passenger service,any
        massive interuption would cause a big problem for the country. Mark
      • paul larner
        NO. ... _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
        Message 3 of 26 , Feb 2, 2002
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          NO.


          >From: "Dicarlo, Gino" <Gino.Dicarlo@...>
          >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
          >To: "'FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com'" <FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com>
          >Subject: RE: [FJGRailroad] Amtrak
          >Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2002 15:54:44 -0600
          >
          >That's a pretty big number! The paper this morning says Amtrak
          >with close down routes soon! They're not sure what New York Routes
          >will get cut! Some people say Amtrak is cutting the routes to get
          >more federal funding. To tell you the truth, I want to see the
          >wonderful old D & H PA passenger trains running to Montreal! Heck
          >with Amtrak! I used to love those trains when I was a kid! I can
          >still remember buying a PA dummy when I was a kid because those were
          >my favorite engines to see on the D & H! Paul Larner will have to
          >get a job with the new provider! Wouldn't you like to zip up to
          >Montreal running a PA Paul?
          >
          >Gino
          >
          >-----Original Message-----
          >From: William Powers [mailto:billpowers75@...]
          >Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2002 4:46 PM
          >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
          >Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Amtrak
          >
          >
          >I heard the number was 1000.. There may not be an Amtrak next year at this
          >time.
          >
          >Bill


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        • Dicarlo, Gino
          What s wrong with PAs? Next thing you re gonna tell me is that you don t like Sharks! ... From: paul larner [mailto:pklarner@hotmail.com] Sent: Sunday,
          Message 4 of 26 , Feb 3, 2002
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            What's wrong with PAs? Next thing you're gonna tell me is that you
            don't like Sharks!

            -----Original Message-----
            From: paul larner [mailto:pklarner@...]
            Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2002 12:12 AM
            To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [FJGRailroad] Amtrak


            NO.
          • mwilber@webtv.net
            Paul wouldnt hold the senority on D&H.He will be working the extra list on the yard job in Saratoga Yard.Or maybe the yard job in Allentown.Better stay where
            Message 5 of 26 , Feb 3, 2002
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              Paul wouldnt hold the senority on D&H.He will be working the extra list
              on the yard job in Saratoga Yard.Or maybe the yard job in
              Allentown.Better stay where you are Paul! Mark
            • dowens15228
              The only place that Amtrak seems to be making money is in the Northeast and the West coast (Acccording to the NY Times). Those profits go to cover the losses
              Message 6 of 26 , Feb 3, 2002
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                The only place that Amtrak seems to be making money is in the
                Northeast and the West coast (Acccording to the NY Times). Those
                profits go to cover the losses from the long-haul service elseware.

                The problem is that Congress has got to decide whether the country
                needs long haul passenger service or not. If so, fund it and accept
                the inevitable losses, if not then shut it down.

                Amtrak wants $1.2B, if I had to vote, I'd give it to them! I would
                hate to think that the only way to travel on a long train trip across
                North America would be to travel to Canada and take VIA's Canadien.

                I love trains, but one of the problems is cost. My wife has to go to
                a writers conference in Taos, NM in March. The round trip airfare
                from Pittsburgh was $230.00, the train was $1800.00. The time
                commitment to fly was about 5 or 6 hours each way (arrive the same
                day) vs nearly 3 days for the train.

                I feel bad for the 1000 workers who are getting laid off.

                Dan Owens

                Dan Owens
              • paul larner
                Only the railfans liked the sharks because they were different. Unfortunately Baldwin didn t get it right in the diesel market dominated by EMD and to some
                Message 7 of 26 , Feb 3, 2002
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                  Only the railfans liked the sharks because they were different.
                  Unfortunately Baldwin didn't get it right in the diesel market dominated by
                  EMD and to some extent ALCo. The PA's were sleek, probably the best looking
                  diesel ever built. I don't care for running old, worn out and poorly or
                  improperly repaired equipment. Consider the FL9's Amtrak had. I ran them
                  so I can say I did, but they're like running an old GP9, so what. I've run
                  what I think were Alco (MLW) 636's on the CB&NS, now if you want to talk
                  about a lot of locomotive those brutes were in the big leagues in their day.
                  You can only imagine what they would do when new. When I got on them they
                  were dirty and down but not out and not what you'd like to get on every day
                  if there were an new and clean alternative.

                  Look at Amtraks F40's. Saved the company from ruin and part of a fleet that
                  comprises the largest group of locomotives ever built. A fine locomotive
                  when new and maintained. Today and for the past few years that I am aware
                  many were plain crappy. They did respond as any older EMD did but they are
                  loud, dirty and uncomfortable today. I ran them when they were relatively
                  new and well maintained a few times on the CV. Once great engines.

                  Locomotives which are neither maintained properly or kept clean and painted
                  are kind of like old folks. You have to respect them for what they've
                  accomplished and all the rest, but they're only a shadow of their former
                  selves.

                  PKL


                  >From: "Dicarlo, Gino" <Gino.Dicarlo@...>
                  >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                  >To: "'FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com'" <FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com>
                  >Subject: RE: [FJGRailroad] Amtrak
                  >Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2002 08:25:35 -0600
                  >
                  >What's wrong with PAs? Next thing you're gonna tell me is that you
                  >don't like Sharks!
                  >
                  >-----Original Message-----
                  >From: paul larner [mailto:pklarner@...]
                  >Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2002 12:12 AM
                  >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                  >Subject: RE: [FJGRailroad] Amtrak
                  >
                  >
                  >NO.
                  >




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                • paul larner
                  I don t expect to be looking anywhere soon, much less D&H. But this IS the railroad industry and I ve seen it change overnight too many times in the past 36
                  Message 8 of 26 , Feb 3, 2002
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                    I don't expect to be looking anywhere soon, much less D&H.

                    But this IS the railroad industry and I've seen it change overnight too many
                    times in the past 36 years to spend a check not already banked. 1000
                    employees can come from the glitter around the brass in Washington and other
                    HQ's. What's being talked about is the fate of intercity. There are a lot
                    of jobs associated with keeping those overnight jobs running that can't be
                    paid for with the revenue from those trains.

                    At least thirteen engineer's jobs associated with 48 and 49 alone between
                    Boston, Albany and Buffalo.

                    PKL


                    >From: mwilber@...
                    >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                    >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                    >Subject: RE: [FJGRailroad] Amtrak
                    >Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2002 10:58:08 -0500 (EST)
                    >
                    >Paul wouldnt hold the senority on D&H.He will be working the extra list
                    >on the yard job in Saratoga Yard.Or maybe the yard job in
                    >Allentown.Better stay where you are Paul! Mark
                    >
                    >
                    >




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                  • Knixrule1@juno.com
                    all the engineers I meet just want soft seats and leg room such as a wide cab Paul. Thats where the Canadians win, better lights, better seats, better
                    Message 9 of 26 , Feb 4, 2002
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                      all the engineers I meet just want soft seats and leg room such as a wide
                      cab Paul. Thats where the Canadians win, better lights, better seats,
                      better creature comforts, even a hot plate and microwave.

                      Steve Myers
                      ________________________________________________________________
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                    • Knixrule1@juno.com
                      Amtrak is a political potato, started by Nixon it is still the baby of the democrats. It shows the difference between the two parties belief systems, one to
                      Message 10 of 26 , Feb 4, 2002
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                        Amtrak is a political potato, started by Nixon it is still the baby of
                        the democrats. It shows the difference between the two parties belief
                        systems, one to privatize and the other to control everything. It
                        reminds me of the mess called Conrail in her early years, forever
                        creating five year plans to become profitable but couldn't wean her from
                        the free and easy tax dollars. She was the joke of the railroad industry
                        and lived with names like "different circus-same clowns". It was under
                        Reagan that Conrail was told to crap or get off the pot, Elizabeth Dole
                        as payback for Bobs help getting Ron elected, was named sec of
                        transportation. Bags of money were exchanged and out came Elizabeths
                        backing for the entire system to be sold to the NS. This created the
                        "let Conrail be Conrail" movement and turned big blue into a real
                        railroad. Amtrak is well established in New York state, and we pay very
                        high taxes for such benefits. THe northeast makes money with passenger
                        rail service but when the republicans put the squeeze on Amtrak to be
                        profitable and free of tax dollars, they turn to attract freight from
                        profitable private railroads to attach at the end of their trains.
                        Amtrak tried to bid on the UPS business and take it from the private
                        sector. Is it right for a quasi-governmental company to use your track
                        and then go after your business while supporting themselves with tax
                        dollars ? It is like the post office selling ties and coffee cups while
                        offering poor mail service and Joes Tie Shop next door has to pay
                        property taxes, sales taxes, license and registration fees but is trying
                        to make a living selling ties. Why was super steel built in Schenectady
                        county and the old turbos reserected when there was no need for the
                        factory? Why did state and local politicians flock to the ribbon
                        cutting, but now the doors are quietly closing at super steel, and who
                        payed for the little game of reviving "locomotive building in
                        Schenectady"? There will be an Amtrak and they will grow and cut back
                        depending on who runs Washington, my concern is for the working man just
                        trying to make a living and retirement. I love trains and to me, the
                        more the merrier, but Amtrak does have some problems to solve, if Uncle
                        Sam stepped in back in the 1960's to help passenger service, rather than
                        force, rape, and tax the rail industry to death while paying to build and
                        maintain roads for trucks and busses, rivers and canals for barges, and
                        airports and controllers for planes, we might have a better rail system
                        for passengers.


                        Steve Myers
                        ________________________________________________________________
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                      • mwilber@webtv.net
                        Paul-Are you usually alone in the cab,or are there two of you like the frieght jobs?Mark
                        Message 11 of 26 , Feb 4, 2002
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                          Paul-Are you usually alone in the cab,or are there two of you like the
                          frieght jobs?Mark
                        • mwilber@webtv.net
                          Steve-Dont forget arm rests,air conditioning and seats that recline. Mark
                          Message 12 of 26 , Feb 4, 2002
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                            Steve-Dont forget arm rests,air conditioning and seats that recline.
                            Mark
                          • Richard A. Finn
                            Steve, It s called PORK by the politicians.
                            Message 13 of 26 , Feb 4, 2002
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                              Steve,  It's called "PORK" by the politicians.

                              Knixrule1@... wrote:

                               Amtrak is a political potato, started by Nixon it is still the baby of
                              the democrats.  It shows the difference between the two parties belief
                              systems, one to privatize and the other to control everything.  It
                              reminds me of the mess called Conrail in her early years, forever
                              creating five year plans to become profitable but couldn't  wean her from
                              the free and easy tax dollars.  She was the joke of the railroad industry
                              and lived with names like "different circus-same clowns".  It was under
                              Reagan that Conrail was told to crap or get off the pot, Elizabeth Dole
                              as payback for Bobs help getting Ron elected, was named sec of
                              transportation.  Bags of money were exchanged and out came Elizabeths
                              backing for the entire system to be sold to the NS.  This created the
                              "let Conrail be Conrail" movement and turned big blue into a real
                              railroad.  Amtrak is well established in New York state, and we pay very
                              high taxes for such benefits.  THe northeast makes money with passenger
                              rail service but when the republicans put the squeeze on Amtrak to be
                              profitable and free of tax dollars, they turn to attract freight from
                              profitable private railroads to attach at the end of their trains.
                              Amtrak tried to bid on the UPS business and take it from the private
                              sector.  Is it right for a quasi-governmental company to use your track
                              and then go after your business while supporting themselves with tax
                              dollars ?  It is like the post office selling ties and coffee cups while
                              offering poor mail service and Joes Tie Shop next door has to pay
                              property taxes, sales taxes, license and registration fees but is trying
                              to make a living selling ties.  Why was super steel built in Schenectady
                              county and the old turbos reserected when there was no need for the
                              factory?  Why did state and local politicians flock to the ribbon
                              cutting, but now the doors are quietly closing at super steel, and who
                              payed for the little game of reviving "locomotive building in
                              Schenectady"?  There will be an Amtrak and they will grow and cut back
                              depending on who runs Washington, my concern is for the working man just
                              trying to make a living and retirement.  I love trains and to me, the
                              more the merrier, but Amtrak does have some problems to solve, if Uncle
                              Sam stepped in back in the 1960's to help passenger service, rather than
                              force, rape, and tax the rail industry to death while paying to build and
                              maintain roads for trucks and busses, rivers and canals for barges, and
                              airports and controllers for planes, we might have a better rail system
                              for passengers.
                               

                                  Steve Myers
                              ________________________________________________________________

                            • Knixrule1@juno.com
                              Alone. Mark, you have no signals on the Susie-Q ? The D & H has to wait for a form D every time they leave Selkirk yard. Steve
                              Message 14 of 26 , Feb 4, 2002
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                                Alone. Mark, you have no signals on the Susie-Q ? The D & H has to wait
                                for a form D every time they leave Selkirk yard.

                                Steve
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                              • mwilber@webtv.net
                                Steve-Only signal we have on the whole NYSW is at Chenango Forks.They just put in an automatic switch,so it to became an interlocking CP Forks.Of course when
                                Message 15 of 26 , Feb 4, 2002
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                                  Steve-Only signal we have on the whole NYSW is at Chenango Forks.They
                                  just put in an automatic switch,so it to became an interlocking CP
                                  Forks.Of course when we run to NJ we have signals on the NS Southern
                                  Tier from CP BD to CP HJ. At CP HJ we then go onto the Hudson Secondary
                                  (Form D Territory) to station point Pelton.At Pelton then the tracks
                                  become the NYSW (southern Div.) all the way to Little Ferry NJ. From CP
                                  BD to CP HJ is about 130 miles and CP HJ to Pelton is about 20 miles.
                                  From Binghamton to Little Ferry is about a total 250 miles.If we have
                                  clear signals all the way we can do it in 9 hours. Mark
                                • paul larner
                                  Canadian workers enjoy a leverage against corporate domination not known by the US worker. ...
                                  Message 16 of 26 , Feb 5, 2002
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                                    Canadian workers enjoy a leverage against corporate domination not known by
                                    the US worker.

                                    >From: Knixrule1@...
                                    >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                                    >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                                    >Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Amtrak
                                    >Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 08:58:52 -0500
                                    >
                                    >all the engineers I meet just want soft seats and leg room such as a wide
                                    >cab Paul. Thats where the Canadians win, better lights, better seats,
                                    >better creature comforts, even a hot plate and microwave.
                                    >
                                    > Steve Myers
                                    >________________________________________________________________
                                    >GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
                                    >Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
                                    >Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
                                    >http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.


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                                  • paul larner
                                    The Amtrak engineer is usually alone. Jobs which operate over six hours straight away receive a second engineer by contract. The Rutland job is some sort of
                                    Message 17 of 26 , Feb 5, 2002
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                                      The Amtrak engineer is usually alone. Jobs which operate over six hours
                                      straight away receive a second engineer by contract. The Rutland job is
                                      some sort of anomaly. While operating less than six hours straight away,
                                      there is no time at Rutland during the day for a break so a second man is
                                      supplied by assigning two of the Montreal job second engineers to the train
                                      as their fifth day. There is a nother day filled out by someone and for the
                                      rest of it a man is placed on the job from the spare board. The night job
                                      is given a second engineer when the spare board is slow to work off the
                                      guarantee. On the night job we are not let out of Rutland until the VTR's
                                      Whitehall freight leaves so there is a bit of time for a mealbreak.

                                      PKL


                                      >From: mwilber@...
                                      >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                                      >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                                      >Subject: RE: [FJGRailroad] Amtrak
                                      >Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 10:26:01 -0500 (EST)
                                      >
                                      >Paul-Are you usually alone in the cab,or are there two of you like the
                                      >frieght jobs?Mark
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >


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                                    • paul larner
                                      That s important to keep in mind. A principal function of Amtrak is to provide pork in the politician s district. Pork keeps the poor folks fed and the
                                      Message 18 of 26 , Feb 5, 2002
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                                        That's important to keep in mind. A principal function of Amtrak is to
                                        provide pork in the politician's district. Pork keeps the poor folks fed
                                        and the politicians fat. Many of us decry pork but a far greater number of
                                        us live off it, not just Amtrak - everywhere. Pork is good for the US
                                        economy. Back to Canada, they call their pork socialism.

                                        It's a form of redistribution. Just depends on whose getting forked and
                                        who's eating. Everybody gets their share, rich and poor alike.
                                        Unfortunately it's the middle income earner who is paying a disproportionate
                                        share of the bill. Reagan nailed us to the cross with his tax increases,
                                        then Bush1; nasty Bill did a major restructuring with his tax package (I
                                        believe his only piece of legislation he ever got through in 8 years) when
                                        he still had a Democratic congress in 1993 when he redistributed the burde
                                        to the very wealth and corporations. He redistributed a significant amount
                                        down to the lower income levels be he too provided nothing to the working
                                        middle class (40 to 200 M)

                                        What's this got to do with railroads?

                                        PKL



                                        >From: "Richard A. Finn" <ransjfinn@...>
                                        >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                                        >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                                        >Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Amtrak
                                        >Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 10:38:31 -0500
                                        >
                                        >Steve, It's called "PORK" by the politicians.
                                        >
                                        >Knixrule1@... wrote:
                                        >
                                        > > Amtrak is a political potato, started by Nixon it is still the baby
                                        > > of
                                        > > the democrats. It shows the difference between the two parties belief
                                        > >
                                        > > systems, one to privatize and the other to control everything. It
                                        > > reminds me of the mess called Conrail in her early years, forever
                                        > > creating five year plans to become profitable but couldn't wean her
                                        > > from
                                        > > the free and easy tax dollars. She was the joke of the railroad
                                        > > industry
                                        > > and lived with names like "different circus-same clowns". It was
                                        > > under
                                        > > Reagan that Conrail was told to crap or get off the pot, Elizabeth
                                        > > Dole
                                        > > as payback for Bobs help getting Ron elected, was named sec of
                                        > > transportation. Bags of money were exchanged and out came Elizabeths
                                        > > backing for the entire system to be sold to the NS. This created the
                                        > > "let Conrail be Conrail" movement and turned big blue into a real
                                        > > railroad. Amtrak is well established in New York state, and we pay
                                        > > very
                                        > > high taxes for such benefits. THe northeast makes money with
                                        > > passenger
                                        > > rail service but when the republicans put the squeeze on Amtrak to be
                                        > > profitable and free of tax dollars, they turn to attract freight from
                                        > > profitable private railroads to attach at the end of their trains.
                                        > > Amtrak tried to bid on the UPS business and take it from the private
                                        > > sector. Is it right for a quasi-governmental company to use your
                                        > > track
                                        > > and then go after your business while supporting themselves with tax
                                        > > dollars ? It is like the post office selling ties and coffee cups
                                        > > while
                                        > > offering poor mail service and Joes Tie Shop next door has to pay
                                        > > property taxes, sales taxes, license and registration fees but is
                                        > > trying
                                        > > to make a living selling ties. Why was super steel built in
                                        > > Schenectady
                                        > > county and the old turbos reserected when there was no need for the
                                        > > factory? Why did state and local politicians flock to the ribbon
                                        > > cutting, but now the doors are quietly closing at super steel, and who
                                        > >
                                        > > payed for the little game of reviving "locomotive building in
                                        > > Schenectady"? There will be an Amtrak and they will grow and cut back
                                        > >
                                        > > depending on who runs Washington, my concern is for the working man
                                        > > just
                                        > > trying to make a living and retirement. I love trains and to me, the
                                        > > more the merrier, but Amtrak does have some problems to solve, if
                                        > > Uncle
                                        > > Sam stepped in back in the 1960's to help passenger service, rather
                                        > > than
                                        > > force, rape, and tax the rail industry to death while paying to build
                                        > > and
                                        > > maintain roads for trucks and busses, rivers and canals for barges,
                                        > > and
                                        > > airports and controllers for planes, we might have a better rail
                                        > > system
                                        > > for passengers.
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > Steve Myers
                                        > > ________________________________________________________________


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                                      • Knixrule1@juno.com
                                        Paul, I have strong conservative leanings, but I agree with you. Oh the poor working man, how long can they pile these bricks on his back? Steve On Tue, 05
                                        Message 19 of 26 , Feb 5, 2002
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                                          Paul,

                                          I have strong conservative leanings, but I agree with you. Oh the
                                          poor working man, how long can they pile these bricks on his back?

                                          Steve

                                          On Tue, 05 Feb 2002 11:06:47 -0500 "paul larner" <pklarner@...>
                                          writes:
                                          > That's important to keep in mind. A principal function of Amtrak is
                                          > to
                                          > provide pork in the politician's district. Pork keeps the poor
                                          > folks fed
                                          > and the politicians fat. Many of us decry pork but a far greater
                                          > number of
                                          > us live off it, not just Amtrak - everywhere. Pork is good for the
                                          > US
                                          > economy. Back to Canada, they call their pork socialism.
                                          >
                                          > It's a form of redistribution. Just depends on whose getting forked
                                          > and
                                          > who's eating. Everybody gets their share, rich and poor alike.
                                          > Unfortunately it's the middle income earner who is paying a
                                          > disproportionate
                                          > share of the bill. Reagan nailed us to the cross with his tax
                                          > increases,
                                          > then Bush1; nasty Bill did a major restructuring with his tax
                                          > package (I
                                          > believe his only piece of legislation he ever got through in 8
                                          > years) when
                                          > he still had a Democratic congress in 1993 when he redistributed the
                                          > burde
                                          > to the very wealth and corporations. He redistributed a significant
                                          > amount
                                          > down to the lower income levels be he too provided nothing to the
                                          > working
                                          > middle class (40 to 200 M)
                                          >
                                          > What's this got to do with railroads?
                                          >
                                          > PKL
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > >From: "Richard A. Finn" <ransjfinn@...>
                                          > >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                                          > >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                                          > >Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Amtrak
                                          > >Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 10:38:31 -0500
                                          > >
                                          > >Steve, It's called "PORK" by the politicians.
                                          > >
                                          > >Knixrule1@... wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > > > Amtrak is a political potato, started by Nixon it is still the
                                          > baby
                                          > > > of
                                          > > > the democrats. It shows the difference between the two parties
                                          > belief
                                          > > >
                                          > > > systems, one to privatize and the other to control everything.
                                          > It
                                          > > > reminds me of the mess called Conrail in her early years, forever
                                          > > > creating five year plans to become profitable but couldn't wean
                                          > her
                                          > > > from
                                          > > > the free and easy tax dollars. She was the joke of the railroad
                                          > > > industry
                                          > > > and lived with names like "different circus-same clowns". It was
                                          > > > under
                                          > > > Reagan that Conrail was told to crap or get off the pot,
                                          > Elizabeth
                                          > > > Dole
                                          > > > as payback for Bobs help getting Ron elected, was named sec of
                                          > > > transportation. Bags of money were exchanged and out came
                                          > Elizabeths
                                          > > > backing for the entire system to be sold to the NS. This
                                          > created the
                                          > > > "let Conrail be Conrail" movement and turned big blue into a real
                                          > > > railroad. Amtrak is well established in New York state, and we
                                          > pay
                                          > > > very
                                          > > > high taxes for such benefits. THe northeast makes money with
                                          > > > passenger
                                          > > > rail service but when the republicans put the squeeze on Amtrak
                                          > to be
                                          > > > profitable and free of tax dollars, they turn to attract freight
                                          > from
                                          > > > profitable private railroads to attach at the end of their
                                          > trains.
                                          > > > Amtrak tried to bid on the UPS business and take it from the
                                          > private
                                          > > > sector. Is it right for a quasi-governmental company to use your
                                          > > > track
                                          > > > and then go after your business while supporting themselves with
                                          > tax
                                          > > > dollars ? It is like the post office selling ties and coffee
                                          > cups
                                          > > > while
                                          > > > offering poor mail service and Joes Tie Shop next door has to pay
                                          > > > property taxes, sales taxes, license and registration fees but is
                                          > > > trying
                                          > > > to make a living selling ties. Why was super steel built in
                                          > > > Schenectady
                                          > > > county and the old turbos reserected when there was no need for
                                          > the
                                          > > > factory? Why did state and local politicians flock to the ribbon
                                          > > > cutting, but now the doors are quietly closing at super steel,
                                          > and who
                                          > > >
                                          > > > payed for the little game of reviving "locomotive building in
                                          > > > Schenectady"? There will be an Amtrak and they will grow and
                                          > cut back
                                          > > >
                                          > > > depending on who runs Washington, my concern is for the working
                                          > man
                                          > > > just
                                          > > > trying to make a living and retirement. I love trains and to
                                          > me, the
                                          > > > more the merrier, but Amtrak does have some problems to solve, if
                                          > > > Uncle
                                          > > > Sam stepped in back in the 1960's to help passenger service,
                                          > rather
                                          > > > than
                                          > > > force, rape, and tax the rail industry to death while paying to
                                          > build
                                          > > > and
                                          > > > maintain roads for trucks and busses, rivers and canals for
                                          > barges,
                                          > > > and
                                          > > > airports and controllers for planes, we might have a better rail
                                          > > > system
                                          > > > for passengers.
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Steve Myers
                                          > > > ________________________________________________________________
                                          >
                                          >
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                                        • cbrozek@rinstitute.org
                                          Wow, I sent this two days ago! Hey, Yahoo is about as good as the USPS! Anyone have more info on that Amtrak Autotrain crash in Crescent City, FL earlier?
                                          Message 20 of 26 , Apr 19, 2002
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            RE: [FJGRailroad] S-1/CACV
                                            Wow, I sent this two days ago!  Hey, Yahoo is about as good as the USPS!
                                             
                                            Anyone have more info on that Amtrak Autotrain crash in Crescent City, FL earlier?
                                             
                                            Chris
                                            -----Original Message-----
                                            From: cbrozek@... [mailto:cbrozek@...]
                                            Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 4:04 PM
                                            To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                                            Subject: RE: [FJGRailroad] S-1/CACV

                                            I found these photos of S1 and S2 units from SOO and WP.  Hope this helps.
                                             
                                            Chris
                                            -----Original Message-----
                                            From: Dicarlo, Gino [mailto:Gino.Dicarlo@...]
                                            Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 3:33 PM
                                            To: 'FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com'
                                            Subject: RE: [FJGRailroad] S-1/CACV

                                            Chris,
                                             
                                            You do know I was talking about a full scale, running engine, right?  I think Randy wanted to know
                                            how close it looked to an S-2 to see if it was worth painting up like FJG/20 & 21.  An S-1 looks way
                                            different than an S-2!  The LHRS needs a full scale, running locomotive for their tourist line!
                                             
                                            Gino
                                            -----Original Message-----
                                            From: cbrozek@... [mailto:cbrozek@...]
                                            Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 2:33 PM
                                            To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                                            Subject: RE: [FJGRailroad] S-1/CACV

                                            Model Railroader had a review of an Atlas S1 or S2 some time back and in the review they talked about the differences between each.  I think the main differences were the size and position of the radiators and the horsepower.

                                            Chris B.


                                            Visit Gino's Railpage, Now at http://www.fjgrr.com

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                                          • Stephen G. Myers
                                            Much is true here, Amtrak is a democrat baby with no real reason to tighten its belt since it is on the nipple of the taxpayer. it is a bottomless pit, all
                                            Message 21 of 26 , Nov 11, 2005
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              Much is true here, Amtrak is a democrat baby with no real reason to
                                              tighten its belt since it is on the nipple of the taxpayer. it is a
                                              bottomless pit, all the political appointees have been democrat clowns
                                              like Dukakis, now Bush is bad to fill posts with republicans? It is hard
                                              to be a train buff and watch a decline in any type of rail service, but
                                              the choice is to cut spending somewhere or grow the government even more.
                                              Conrail was the same scenario, don't tighten the belt because Uncle Sam
                                              will pay the bills. It was only in the 1980's that Ronald Reagan put the
                                              squeeze on Conrail and it turned into a well run company. My concern is
                                              to see a good rail passenger service in America, paying fair and
                                              competitive wages. Like the postal service or public transportation, it
                                              will not turn a profit, so what price are we the taxpayers willing to
                                              pay? Don't get me wrong, I feel that both parties are evil and corrupt,
                                              but I do favor the core values of one party, too bad they don't stick to
                                              them.

                                              Steve



                                              On Fri, 11 Nov 2005 11:17:31 -0500 "paul larner" <pklarner@...>
                                              writes:
                                              > I only know what I've heard from a couple guys supposedly up on the
                                              > rr world
                                              > and what little I've read. Gunn was good for Amtrak; he acted like
                                              > a
                                              > railroad manager - non of the touchey feeley bs we had with
                                              > Warrington.
                                              > Passenger service on the rail is a public service and will never
                                              > make money
                                              > if done right, meaning provide sservice and reasonably comfortably.
                                              > It
                                              > costs lots of capital dollars for redundancy to ensure
                                              > dependability.
                                              > Remember when railroads kept locomotives under steam and in reserve
                                              > to
                                              > rpotect their passenger trains? Today nothing is in reserve with
                                              > facilities, equipmentand staffing at a minimum. Legitimate concern
                                              > can be
                                              > made of over staffing at the middle management level. There are too
                                              > many
                                              > "staff" positions at Amtrak, but regard that this is not limited to
                                              > Amtrak.
                                              > Many companies have made efforts to remove levels of management then
                                              > back
                                              > filled a bit. Amtrak needs to do some of that - in the right
                                              > places. Tough
                                              > to fire a congressman's relative, contributor or an EOC
                                              > promotion/hiree.
                                              >
                                              > The Bush administration wants to separate the nations passenger
                                              > service from
                                              > the federal government, not necessarily a bad thing. They have made
                                              > an offer
                                              > to match state funds where the states want to keep or add needed
                                              > service
                                              > thus while Amtrak may go passenger service won't, if the individual
                                              > states
                                              > pick up the bill. New York is a state that receives substantial
                                              > Amtrak
                                              > service but contribute practically nothing compared to VT, MA, ME;
                                              > to get
                                              > out of New England, consider the contributions of CA OR IL WI MI and
                                              > others
                                              > for the operation of trains in their states. The issue to some
                                              > extent is
                                              > the flyover states don't like paying the bill for trainns ilke 48/49
                                              > which
                                              > have no justification considering their undependable schedules and
                                              > fares.
                                              >
                                              > Gunn appears to believe that the feds should keep control and fund
                                              > Amtrak in
                                              > the same way they support so many other industries and
                                              > transportation
                                              > systems. This isn't a bad position either but it conflicts with the
                                              >
                                              > administration. Frankly I believe cronyism is at work here too.
                                              > Any spin
                                              > off or dissolution would benefit someone and we need to know who the
                                              > players
                                              > are and their relationship if any with principals in the republican
                                              > party.
                                              > It appears Gunn wasn't having any of it. Note that John Snow, read
                                              > CSX, is
                                              > secretary of the treasury. CSX is Amtrak's no. 1 destroyer of
                                              > service.
                                              > Their inability to get their own act together has earned them the
                                              > worst
                                              > reputation in the industry for service. My thought without facts is
                                              > that it
                                              > has exceeeds the fiasco of mis judgement following the UP-SP merger.
                                              > Amtrak
                                              > is a fly in their balm; having it gone would facilitate their
                                              > overburdened
                                              > system. Bottom line is Gunn was good for Amtrak. IF you accept
                                              > that the
                                              > fed should fund rail service the same way if funds the airports and
                                              >
                                              > interstate highway sytem then you should support Gunn. Both
                                              > positions have
                                              > merit but the Bush guys have a tendency to do things without
                                              > thinking them
                                              > through. My votes with Gunn.
                                              >
                                              > PKL
                                              >
                                              > >From: "Dicarlo, Gino" <Gino.Dicarlo@...>
                                              > >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                                              > >To: <FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com>
                                              > >Subject: RE: [FJGRailroad] FW: statement from Dave Gunn
                                              > >Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 06:07:17 -0600
                                              > >
                                              > >What's going on here Paul. How do you feel about this?
                                              > >
                                              > >Gino
                                              > >
                                              > >-----Original Message-----
                                              > >From: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                                              > [mailto:FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com]
                                              > >On Behalf Of paul larner
                                              > >Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2005 11:33 PM
                                              > >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                                              > >Subject: [FJGRailroad] FW: statement from Dave Gunn
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > >From: CRengineer@...
                                              > > >To: CRengineer@...
                                              > > >Subject: statement from Dave Gunn Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 21:57:43
                                              > EST
                                              > > >
                                              > > >"The Board members came in this morning and asked me to resign.
                                              > I
                                              > > >refused,
                                              > > >so
                                              > > >they fired me," Gunn said in an interview with Railway Age
                                              > Editor
                                              > >William
                                              > > >C.
                                              > > >Vantuono.
                                              > > >
                                              > > >"I feel at least that I did the right, honorable thing. I wasn't
                                              > going
                                              > > >to abandon our people." He said that the Bush Administrations
                                              > people
                                              > > >wanted to implement their plan, which is destroying Amtrak. "I
                                              > stood in
                                              > >
                                              > > >their way," he said. "That's why they fired me..."
                                              > > >
                                              > > >"If you want an example of getting fired for producing good
                                              > numbers,
                                              > > >this
                                              > > >is
                                              > > >it," he said. "It's an upside-down world we live in..."
                                              > > >
                                              > > >"Anything they all tell you is bullshit," Gunn told Railway Age
                                              > in his
                                              > > >characteristically frank, shoot-from-the hip manner. Citing the
                                              > 93-6
                                              > > >vote in the Senate approving an Amtrak reauthorization bill
                                              > earmarking
                                              > > >nearly $12 billion in
                                              > > >mostly capital investment over the next few years, Gunn said it
                                              > doesn't
                                              > > >compute. "The Administration is serious about taking this place
                                              > >apart..."
                                              > > >
                                              > > >What happens next? The Administration is running out of time,
                                              > Gunn told
                                              > >
                                              > > >Railway Age. "They have to do a lot of the dirty stuff this
                                              > year,
                                              > > >because next year is an election year, and what they've got in
                                              > mind
                                              > > >will be very unpopular."
                                              > >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
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                                            • SheilaDanylak@aol.com
                                              Well put Steve... couldn t agree with you more.... Phil and Sheila
                                              Message 22 of 26 , Nov 11, 2005
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                                                Well put Steve... couldn't agree with you more....
                                                                                                                         Phil and Sheila
                                              • paul larner
                                                The vote on the Amtrak funding bill which was overwhelmingly bi partisan provided sufficient funding for enough years forward to protect Amtrak from the
                                                Message 23 of 26 , Nov 11, 2005
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  The vote on the Amtrak funding bill which was overwhelmingly bi partisan
                                                  provided sufficient funding for enough years forward to protect Amtrak from
                                                  the cronyism of the Bush administration in their give away of Amtrak and its
                                                  assets. If Amtrak went bankrupt who do you think would get the Penn
                                                  Station property? The cronies who now hold the mortgage. And what of the
                                                  rest of it's assets. The name Timothy Mellon comes to mind and what his
                                                  grab was on the B&M - real estate. This water is deep.

                                                  Amtrak has issues, no denial. Much of those problems come from underfunding
                                                  of the capital needs. If amtrak were treated like the other transportation
                                                  entities funded by the national government, comparisons could more easily be
                                                  made (and they could be more easily hidden) Is rail transportation more
                                                  important to the national economy that air or highway transport? Hard to
                                                  tell but I don't believe this administration believes it is.

                                                  Thought just ran through my mind - when you talk about not trusting either
                                                  party - you know it is quite possible this administration doesn't really
                                                  care one whit what's best for the country - only what's best for themselves.

                                                  Public servants no longer see their responsibilities as public service.
                                                  They concentrate on getting reelected. Remember John Kennedy's statement:
                                                  "Ask not what my country can do for me, but what can I do for my country?"
                                                  Where is that spirit today. Appropriate on Veterans Day when men, who long
                                                  ago passed the age when men went to war, are now taken from established jobs
                                                  and growing families to possibly die for our freedom. I hope we will all
                                                  say thank you when we meet a young man or woman who has served. (That's
                                                  from my perspective. Some of you who read this may find those serving
                                                  overseas today are half a generation older than you.)

                                                  PKL

                                                  >From: "Stephen G. Myers" <Knixrule1@...>
                                                  >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                                                  >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                                                  >Subject: [FJGRailroad] Amtrak
                                                  >Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 12:27:30 -0500
                                                  >
                                                  > Much is true here, Amtrak is a democrat baby with no real reason to
                                                  >tighten its belt since it is on the nipple of the taxpayer. it is a
                                                  >bottomless pit, all the political appointees have been democrat clowns
                                                  >like Dukakis, now Bush is bad to fill posts with republicans? It is hard
                                                  >to be a train buff and watch a decline in any type of rail service, but
                                                  >the choice is to cut spending somewhere or grow the government even more.
                                                  > Conrail was the same scenario, don't tighten the belt because Uncle Sam
                                                  >will pay the bills. It was only in the 1980's that Ronald Reagan put the
                                                  >squeeze on Conrail and it turned into a well run company. My concern is
                                                  >to see a good rail passenger service in America, paying fair and
                                                  >competitive wages. Like the postal service or public transportation, it
                                                  >will not turn a profit, so what price are we the taxpayers willing to
                                                  >pay? Don't get me wrong, I feel that both parties are evil and corrupt,
                                                  >but I do favor the core values of one party, too bad they don't stick to
                                                  >them.
                                                  >
                                                  > Steve
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >On Fri, 11 Nov 2005 11:17:31 -0500 "paul larner" <pklarner@...>
                                                  >writes:
                                                  > > I only know what I've heard from a couple guys supposedly up on the
                                                  > > rr world
                                                  > > and what little I've read. Gunn was good for Amtrak; he acted like
                                                  > > a
                                                  > > railroad manager - non of the touchey feeley bs we had with
                                                  > > Warrington.
                                                  > > Passenger service on the rail is a public service and will never
                                                  > > make money
                                                  > > if done right, meaning provide sservice and reasonably comfortably.
                                                  > > It
                                                  > > costs lots of capital dollars for redundancy to ensure
                                                  > > dependability.
                                                  > > Remember when railroads kept locomotives under steam and in reserve
                                                  > > to
                                                  > > rpotect their passenger trains? Today nothing is in reserve with
                                                  > > facilities, equipmentand staffing at a minimum. Legitimate concern
                                                  > > can be
                                                  > > made of over staffing at the middle management level. There are too
                                                  > > many
                                                  > > "staff" positions at Amtrak, but regard that this is not limited to
                                                  > > Amtrak.
                                                  > > Many companies have made efforts to remove levels of management then
                                                  > > back
                                                  > > filled a bit. Amtrak needs to do some of that - in the right
                                                  > > places. Tough
                                                  > > to fire a congressman's relative, contributor or an EOC
                                                  > > promotion/hiree.
                                                  > >
                                                  > > The Bush administration wants to separate the nations passenger
                                                  > > service from
                                                  > > the federal government, not necessarily a bad thing. They have made
                                                  > > an offer
                                                  > > to match state funds where the states want to keep or add needed
                                                  > > service
                                                  > > thus while Amtrak may go passenger service won't, if the individual
                                                  > > states
                                                  > > pick up the bill. New York is a state that receives substantial
                                                  > > Amtrak
                                                  > > service but contribute practically nothing compared to VT, MA, ME;
                                                  > > to get
                                                  > > out of New England, consider the contributions of CA OR IL WI MI and
                                                  > > others
                                                  > > for the operation of trains in their states. The issue to some
                                                  > > extent is
                                                  > > the flyover states don't like paying the bill for trainns ilke 48/49
                                                  > > which
                                                  > > have no justification considering their undependable schedules and
                                                  > > fares.
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Gunn appears to believe that the feds should keep control and fund
                                                  > > Amtrak in
                                                  > > the same way they support so many other industries and
                                                  > > transportation
                                                  > > systems. This isn't a bad position either but it conflicts with the
                                                  > >
                                                  > > administration. Frankly I believe cronyism is at work here too.
                                                  > > Any spin
                                                  > > off or dissolution would benefit someone and we need to know who the
                                                  > > players
                                                  > > are and their relationship if any with principals in the republican
                                                  > > party.
                                                  > > It appears Gunn wasn't having any of it. Note that John Snow, read
                                                  > > CSX, is
                                                  > > secretary of the treasury. CSX is Amtrak's no. 1 destroyer of
                                                  > > service.
                                                  > > Their inability to get their own act together has earned them the
                                                  > > worst
                                                  > > reputation in the industry for service. My thought without facts is
                                                  > > that it
                                                  > > has exceeeds the fiasco of mis judgement following the UP-SP merger.
                                                  > > Amtrak
                                                  > > is a fly in their balm; having it gone would facilitate their
                                                  > > overburdened
                                                  > > system. Bottom line is Gunn was good for Amtrak. IF you accept
                                                  > > that the
                                                  > > fed should fund rail service the same way if funds the airports and
                                                  > >
                                                  > > interstate highway sytem then you should support Gunn. Both
                                                  > > positions have
                                                  > > merit but the Bush guys have a tendency to do things without
                                                  > > thinking them
                                                  > > through. My votes with Gunn.
                                                  > >
                                                  > > PKL
                                                  > >
                                                  > > >From: "Dicarlo, Gino" <Gino.Dicarlo@...>
                                                  > > >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                                                  > > >To: <FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com>
                                                  > > >Subject: RE: [FJGRailroad] FW: statement from Dave Gunn
                                                  > > >Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 06:07:17 -0600
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >What's going on here Paul. How do you feel about this?
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >Gino
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >-----Original Message-----
                                                  > > >From: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                                                  > > [mailto:FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com]
                                                  > > >On Behalf Of paul larner
                                                  > > >Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2005 11:33 PM
                                                  > > >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                                                  > > >Subject: [FJGRailroad] FW: statement from Dave Gunn
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > >From: CRengineer@...
                                                  > > > >To: CRengineer@...
                                                  > > > >Subject: statement from Dave Gunn Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 21:57:43
                                                  > > EST
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > >"The Board members came in this morning and asked me to resign.
                                                  > > I
                                                  > > > >refused,
                                                  > > > >so
                                                  > > > >they fired me," Gunn said in an interview with Railway Age
                                                  > > Editor
                                                  > > >William
                                                  > > > >C.
                                                  > > > >Vantuono.
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > >"I feel at least that I did the right, honorable thing. I wasn't
                                                  > > going
                                                  > > > >to abandon our people." He said that the Bush Administrations
                                                  > > people
                                                  > > > >wanted to implement their plan, which is destroying Amtrak. "I
                                                  > > stood in
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > >their way," he said. "That's why they fired me..."
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > >"If you want an example of getting fired for producing good
                                                  > > numbers,
                                                  > > > >this
                                                  > > > >is
                                                  > > > >it," he said. "It's an upside-down world we live in..."
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > >"Anything they all tell you is bullshit," Gunn told Railway Age
                                                  > > in his
                                                  > > > >characteristically frank, shoot-from-the hip manner. Citing the
                                                  > > 93-6
                                                  > > > >vote in the Senate approving an Amtrak reauthorization bill
                                                  > > earmarking
                                                  > > > >nearly $12 billion in
                                                  > > > >mostly capital investment over the next few years, Gunn said it
                                                  > > doesn't
                                                  > > > >compute. "The Administration is serious about taking this place
                                                  > > >apart..."
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > >What happens next? The Administration is running out of time,
                                                  > > Gunn told
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > >Railway Age. "They have to do a lot of the dirty stuff this
                                                  > > year,
                                                  > > > >because next year is an election year, and what they've got in
                                                  > > mind
                                                  > > > >will be very unpopular."
                                                  > > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
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                                                  > > http://www.lostlandmarks.org
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                                                  > > State at
                                                  > > http://ny.existingstations.com/
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