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RE: [FJGRailroad] Re: trolleys to Chicago

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  • Dicarlo, Gino
    When I said there were trolleys in Boston, I wasn t thinking the T. That is most definitely light rail. I thought there was a classic style, street level
    Message 1 of 29 , Jan 3, 2002
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      When I said there were trolleys in Boston, I wasn't thinking the "T." That
      is most
      definitely "light rail." I thought there was a classic style, street level
      trolley operating around Boston somewhere! I've been on the "T" and enjoyed
      it!

      Gino
      -----Original Message-----
      From: Richard A. Finn [mailto:ransjfinn@...]
      Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 2:41 PM
      To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Re: trolleys to Chicago


      Steve
      You are correct, they aren't trolleys. In the current vernacular they are
      "Light Rail". In the case of the Green line, the cars ride on the ancient
      trolley roadbed and feed from the ancient catenary.
      There is a 1920s "woody" trolley from the old MTA at the Seaside Museum that
      was operating the day we were there. It really was fun to ride; it brought
      back some old memories of the 50s when a few were still operating in
      Beantown.
      Rich
    • Dick Ryall
      San Francisco has trolleys, and Salt Lake City has new light rail.
      Message 2 of 29 , Jan 3, 2002
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        San Francisco has trolleys, and Salt Lake City has new light rail.

        paul larner wrote:
        >
        > Boston is a treat for the trolley fan. I don't recall trolleys in Baltimore
        > at least not of the old school. Philly I have not seen but hear they are
        > good. SanDiego is a new system and I have heard more a waste of taxpayers
        > money than a solution to the traffic problems. Around here it is worth a
        > trip to Boston to ride the cars. Then you an take a trip up to Seashore
        > before heading back home. That would be a couple of days well spent. When
        > you do the Boston cars your wife can shop at the malls and outlet stores
        > around the NH/Me border the nthe whole family would enjoy Seashore - they
        > used to have a great book store as well.
        >
        > PKL
        >
        > >From: "Dicarlo, Gino" <Gino.Dicarlo@...>
        > >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
        > >To: "'FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com'" <FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com>
        > >Subject: RE: [FJGRailroad] Re: trolleys to Chicago
        > >Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 10:15:47 -0600
        > >
        > >That's not true! You can go to Buffalo and take a trolley around downtown!
        > >There's also
        > >a big trolley system in Baltimore, Philly, Boston and SanDiego! They may
        > >not be as
        > >classic as a Saint Louis Car, but they are trolleys no less! Definitely
        > >don't consider those
        > >ugly busses calling themselves trolleys in Lake George, Albany & Saratoga!
        > >It's funny,
        > >every five years or so, there's a group in Albany that talks about
        > >restoring
        > >the United
        > >Traction Company! They say that's a much better transportation system
        > >(environmentally)
        > >than the current bus situation! I'd love to see a belt line trolley like
        > >that! I love public
        > >transportation! If they had a city trolley around here I'd be the first
        > >person in line to be
        > >an operator...
        > >
        > >Gino
        > >
        > > > ----------
        > > > From: Knixrule1@...
        > > > Reply To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
        > > > Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2002 10:13 AM
        > > > To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
        > > > Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Re: trolleys to Chicago
        > > >
        > > > You are making me long for the days of interesting public
        > >transportation.
        > > > Imagine photographing trolleys running through Scotia rather than
        > > > watching empty CDTA buses roll past every fifteen minutes. Alas, we
        > >have
        > > > built spread out communities and we are hooked to the auto so I guess
        > >the
        > > > only trolley we will see, is the seashore museum on vacation.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        >
        > _________________________________________________________________
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        >
        >
        > Visit Gino's F.J.G.R.R. Page at
        > http://www.capital.net/~dicarlos/
        >
        > Visit The Greater Capital District Railfan Assocation At http://www.trainweb.com/gcdra/
        >
        > Visit The Site For Existing Railroad Stations
        > in New York State at
        > http://ny.existingstations.com/
        >
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      • glenn_j_williams
        ... Let s see if I can do this without making things even murkier! ... In 1959, the MTA (now the MBTA - Mass. Bay Trans. Auth.) bought a steam/diesel line used
        Message 3 of 29 , Jan 3, 2002
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          --- In FJGRailroad@y..., "Lee Morelli" <Morelli@c...> wrote:
          > Glenn,
          >
          > Wow! Kindly clarify the following acronyms and their use:

          Let's see if I can do this without making things even murkier!

          > B&A commuter line.

          In 1959, the MTA (now the MBTA - Mass. Bay Trans. Auth.) bought a
          steam/diesel line used by the Boston and Albany for commuter service,
          refurbished it, installed overhead, made a connection to the Park
          Street subway line at Kenmore Square, and viola! the D - Riverside
          Line was created.

          > (using PCC cars!).

          The MBTA has been under orders for some time to restore service on
          the Arborway line, one of the lines which comprise the Green Line. It
          was finally decided that streetcars would be used. I'm not sure, but
          I believe there are enough older PCC (President's Conference
          Committee cars serviceable to do it.

          > Twin Cities Rancid Transit

          This was how residents of Minneapolis/St. Paul derisively referred to
          Twin Cities Rapid Transit. Their PCC cars were wider than most
          others, which was a deciding factor in their ending up in Newark.
          Most other cities (including Boston) couldn't use them because of
          their broad beam, but clearances on the City Subway line were wide
          enough.

          > LRV equipment

          LRV - Light Rail Vehicle, today's version of the trolley car. They
          have lots of modern features (which sometimes don't work),
          can be run in train-like configuration, and can be made handicap
          accessible, which is a must these days.

          > PCC's poles were replaced with small pantographs

          When NJ Transit upgraded the City Subway overhead wire, it was
          evidently of the style that wouldn't allow continued use of trolley
          poles. Thus, the trolley poles were removed from the rear of each
          car and a smallish pantograph placed toward the front of each car.

          Glenn
        • Richard A. Finn
          Sorry Gino, all gone. As I said the nearest one that I know of is in the Seaside Museum. Of course there are these motorized imitation tourist trolleys .
          Message 4 of 29 , Jan 3, 2002
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            Sorry Gino, all gone.

            As I said the nearest one that I know of is in the Seaside Museum.  Of course there are these motorized imitation tourist "trolleys".  There are some electric busses running in North Cambridge from Harvard Square T station.  (Well now I am not sure they are still there either.  They were there 3 years ago before I retired from MIT, and on the way home I would race them up Mt Auburn St. and try not get caught behind one at a stop.)

            I just remembered that we will be in Naw Lens (New Orleans to us Yankees) at the end of the month.  People have suggested that I would enjoy riding the trolleys there.  Do any of you folks have any suggestions?  BTW, there is a N O street car named "Desire" on exhibit at the Seaside Museum.

            Rich
             

            "Dicarlo, Gino" wrote:

             When I said there were trolleys in Boston, I wasn't thinking the "T."  That
            is most
            definitely "light rail."  I thought there was a classic style, street level
            trolley operating around Boston somewhere!  I've been on the "T" and enjoyed
            it!

            Gino
            -----Original Message-----
            From: Richard A. Finn [mailto:ransjfinn@...]
            Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 2:41 PM
            To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Re: trolleys to Chicago
             
             

          • dowens15228
            You sure are right about those Frisco cable cars Dick! They are a blast to ride up and down the hills, and then everybody gets to help turn the car on the
            Message 5 of 29 , Jan 3, 2002
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              You sure are right about those Frisco cable cars Dick! They are a
              blast to ride up and down the hills, and then everybody gets to help
              turn the car on the turntable at the end.

              I was surprised how little they are though. They are not much longer
              than the Incline cars ( Inclined Planes ) that we have going up Mt
              Washington in Pittsburgh.

              Dan Owens
            • Malcolm Horton
              Everyone interested in railroads should make it a point to ride the Mt. Washington cog railroad. It is virtually the same as it was when it was built in 1868.
              Message 6 of 29 , Jan 3, 2002
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                Everyone interested in railroads should make it a point to ride the Mt. Washington cog railroad. It is virtually the same as it was when it was built in 1868. All the trains are steam powered (hand fired with coal). There is never more than one passenger car to a train and it is always on the uphill side of the locomotive. There is no coupling between the locomotive and the car. Gravity alone keeps them in touch. One has a horizontal steel roller and the other has a vertical steel roller at their point of contact, to allow for gross misalignment. The maximum grade is 35% (climb is 35 feet for 100 feet of track). There are no level sections. The locomotive boilers are short and large in diameter and are tilted forward with respect to the plane of the four wheels. This is necessary to prevent the water from uncovering the flue pipes when on the steep grades. When going upgrade, a hinged pawl on the underside of the car is let down and bounces along on the gear rack. This is to prevent the car from rolling backward in case the locomotive derails and leaves the scene. When going down hill, the pawl is fully raised and the brakeman on the lower end of the car constantly mans the brakes such that the car is just barely touching the locomotive. This is to prevent the car from running away if the locomotive derails. The fireman has to work very hard when going uphill for obvious reasons. When going downhill, the pistons are used as air compressors to hold the train back. Steam is only turned on to stop the locomotive. Obviously the fireman has very little to do when going downhill. The switches are very complicated and require several separate manual operations to switch both the running rails and the gear track.
                 
                Don't put off going to see this mechanical marvel. Someday you may read that they have gone to diesel operation and then it will be too late.
                 
                The ride is not very bumpy because the speed is always very slow. Because of the steep grades, you feel like you are lying on your back with your feet in the air.
                 
                Malcolm Horton
                 
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Richard A. Finn
                Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 1:18 AM
                To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Mt. Washington Cog Railway (Re: trolleys to Chicago)
                 
                Gino

                I have been told by a friend who did the trip on the Cog Railway that it is a very jarring ride and a once (only once) in a lifetime experience.  We did the auto road once in July.  Temperature was in the low 80s at the base, and 37 at the summit.  The wind chill is very severe.  The summit is about 6,300 feet.

                Rich

                glenn_j_williams wrote:

                 --- In FJGRailroad@y..., "Dicarlo, Gino" <Gino.Dicarlo@q...> wrote:
                > Isn't there a Mount Washington in New Hampshire that could be
                > reached by some sort of a trolley or tram?
                >
                > Gino

                Gino,

                You're thinking of the Mount Washington Cog Railway, a truly unique

                railroad.  It runs from the base to the summit, including a meet with
                a train from the other direction.  Cog railway switches are something
                to see.

                Anyone going to visit it should bring warm clothes, as the summit
                never gets above 65 degrees and is frequently in the clouds.  Be
                warned, too: it's an expensive trip.

                     Glenn
                 


                Visit Gino's F.J.G.R.R. Page at
                http://www.capital.net/~dicarlos/

                Visit The Greater Capital District Railfan Assocation At http://www.trainweb.com/gcdra/

                Visit The Site For Existing Railroad Stations
                in New York State at
                http://ny.existingstations.com/

                Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

              • Dicarlo, Gino
                Isn t there a Mount Washington in New Hampshire that could be reached by some sort of a trolley or tram? Gino ... From: dowens15228
                Message 7 of 29 , Jan 3, 2002
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                  Isn't there a Mount Washington in New Hampshire that could be
                  reached by some sort of a trolley or tram?

                  Gino

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: dowens15228 [mailto:supportone@...]
                  Subject: [FJGRailroad] Re: trolleys to Chicago


                  You sure are right about those Frisco cable cars Dick! They are a
                  blast to ride up and down the hills, and then everybody gets to help
                  turn the car on the turntable at the end.

                  I was surprised how little they are though. They are not much longer
                  than the Incline cars ( Inclined Planes ) that we have going up Mt
                  Washington in Pittsburgh.

                  Dan Owens
                • glenn_j_williams
                  ... Gino, You re thinking of the Mount Washington Cog Railway, a truly unique railroad. It runs from the base to the summit, including a meet with a train
                  Message 8 of 29 , Jan 3, 2002
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                    --- In FJGRailroad@y..., "Dicarlo, Gino" <Gino.Dicarlo@q...> wrote:
                    > Isn't there a Mount Washington in New Hampshire that could be
                    > reached by some sort of a trolley or tram?
                    >
                    > Gino

                    Gino,

                    You're thinking of the Mount Washington Cog Railway, a truly unique
                    railroad. It runs from the base to the summit, including a meet with
                    a train from the other direction. Cog railway switches are something
                    to see.

                    Anyone going to visit it should bring warm clothes, as the summit
                    never gets above 65 degrees and is frequently in the clouds. Be
                    warned, too: it's an expensive trip.

                    Glenn
                  • glenn_j_williams
                    ... Rich, To me, the best part of my New Orleans trips was riding the Charles Street trolleys. There are several downtown boarding locations adjacent to Canal
                    Message 9 of 29 , Jan 3, 2002
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                      --- In FJGRailroad@y..., "Richard A. Finn" <ransjfinn@r...> wrote:
                      >
                      > [snip]
                      >
                      > I just remembered that we will be in Naw Lens (New Orleans to us
                      > Yankees) at the end of the month. People have suggested that I
                      > would enjoy riding the trolleys there. Do any of you folks have any
                      > suggestions?
                      > [snip]
                      >
                      > Rich

                      Rich,

                      To me, the best part of my New Orleans trips was riding the Charles
                      Street trolleys. There are several downtown boarding locations
                      adjacent to Canal Street.

                      Also, the Canal Street line is being reactivated out to Cemeteries.
                      New trolleys, similar in style to the existing ones, are being
                      constructed. Don't know if it is still there, but an ulta-sleek
                      Czech trolley was running up and down the Canal Street line and onto
                      the Riverside line when I was last there 18 months ago.

                      And you *must* go to Cafe Du Monde for coffee and beignets. Wicked
                      good!

                      Otherwise, the Bourbon Street area is grossly overrated, particularly
                      at night. Unless you don't mind drunks and unintentional 'business
                      meetings' with representatives from Our Lady of the Evening, that is.

                      Glenn
                    • Richard A. Finn
                      Gino I have been told by a friend who did the trip on the Cog Railway that it is a very jarring ride and a once (only once) in a lifetime experience. We did
                      Message 10 of 29 , Jan 3, 2002
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                        Gino

                        I have been told by a friend who did the trip on the Cog Railway that it is a very jarring ride and a once (only once) in a lifetime experience.  We did the auto road once in July.  Temperature was in the low 80s at the base, and 37 at the summit.  The wind chill is very severe.  The summit is about 6,300 feet.

                        Rich

                        glenn_j_williams wrote:

                         --- In FJGRailroad@y..., "Dicarlo, Gino" <Gino.Dicarlo@q...> wrote:
                        > Isn't there a Mount Washington in New Hampshire that could be
                        > reached by some sort of a trolley or tram?
                        >
                        > Gino

                        Gino,

                        You're thinking of the Mount Washington Cog Railway, a truly unique
                        railroad.  It runs from the base to the summit, including a meet with
                        a train from the other direction.  Cog railway switches are something
                        to see.

                        Anyone going to visit it should bring warm clothes, as the summit
                        never gets above 65 degrees and is frequently in the clouds.  Be
                        warned, too: it's an expensive trip.

                             Glenn
                         


                        Visit Gino's F.J.G.R.R. Page at
                        http://www.capital.net/~dicarlos/

                        Visit The Greater Capital District Railfan Assocation At http://www.trainweb.com/gcdra/

                        Visit The Site For Existing Railroad Stations
                        in New York State at
                        http://ny.existingstations.com/

                        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

                      • psefton@crosslink.net
                        My wife and I rode the trolleys when we visited there in March. they are a staple method of transportation, as it is very difficult to park or make reasonable
                        Message 11 of 29 , Jan 3, 2002
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                          My wife and I rode the trolleys when we visited there in March. they are a
                          staple method of transportation, as it is very difficult to park or make
                          reasonable progress by car through the French Quarter.

                          They get very crowded when people start to go out for the evening around
                          dinner time.


                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: glenn_j_williams <103424.2304@...>
                          To: <FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 7:23 PM
                          Subject: [FJGRailroad] New Orleans (Re: trolleys to Chicago)


                          > --- In FJGRailroad@y..., "Richard A. Finn" <ransjfinn@r...> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > [snip]
                          > >
                          > > I just remembered that we will be in Naw Lens (New Orleans to us
                          > > Yankees) at the end of the month. People have suggested that I
                          > > would enjoy riding the trolleys there. Do any of you folks have any
                          > > suggestions?
                          > > [snip]
                          > >
                          > > Rich
                          >
                          > Rich,
                          >
                          > To me, the best part of my New Orleans trips was riding the Charles
                          > Street trolleys. There are several downtown boarding locations
                          > adjacent to Canal Street.
                          >
                          > Also, the Canal Street line is being reactivated out to Cemeteries.
                          > New trolleys, similar in style to the existing ones, are being
                          > constructed. Don't know if it is still there, but an ulta-sleek
                          > Czech trolley was running up and down the Canal Street line and onto
                          > the Riverside line when I was last there 18 months ago.
                          >
                          > And you *must* go to Cafe Du Monde for coffee and beignets. Wicked
                          > good!
                          >
                          > Otherwise, the Bourbon Street area is grossly overrated, particularly
                          > at night. Unless you don't mind drunks and unintentional 'business
                          > meetings' with representatives from Our Lady of the Evening, that is.
                          >
                          > Glenn
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Visit Gino's F.J.G.R.R. Page at
                          > http://www.capital.net/~dicarlos/
                          >
                          > Visit The Greater Capital District Railfan Assocation At
                          http://www.trainweb.com/gcdra/
                          >
                          > Visit The Site For Existing Railroad Stations
                          > in New York State at
                          > http://ny.existingstations.com/
                          >
                          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                          >
                          >
                        • Dick Ryall
                          Rjight on cable cars, San Francisco also has real trollys too.
                          Message 12 of 29 , Jan 3, 2002
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                            Rjight on cable cars, San Francisco also has real trollys too.

                            dowens15228 wrote:
                            >
                            > You sure are right about those Frisco cable cars Dick! They are a
                            > blast to ride up and down the hills, and then everybody gets to help
                            > turn the car on the turntable at the end.
                            >
                            > I was surprised how little they are though. They are not much longer
                            > than the Incline cars ( Inclined Planes ) that we have going up Mt
                            > Washington in Pittsburgh.
                            >
                            > Dan Owens
                            >
                            >
                            > Visit Gino's F.J.G.R.R. Page at
                            > http://www.capital.net/~dicarlos/
                            >
                            > Visit The Greater Capital District Railfan Assocation At http://www.trainweb.com/gcdra/
                            >
                            > Visit The Site For Existing Railroad Stations
                            > in New York State at
                            > http://ny.existingstations.com/
                            >
                            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                          • paul larner
                            CDTA will be heavy rail. There aren t enough people working in central capitol area, 1 square mile, to support new construction for light rail according to
                            Message 13 of 29 , Jan 3, 2002
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                              CDTA will be heavy rail. There aren't enough people working in central
                              capitol area, 1 square mile, to support new construction for light rail
                              according to studies I had seen several years ago. When dreams run faster
                              than realities you must be prepared to spend a lot of someone's money. One
                              thing the trolley systems of the early twentieth century did was help to
                              create a market by making it possible for people to move away from the
                              central city. Not only did new home construction fund the investors who
                              promoted the systems but also owned the developing land but it created a
                              market for that new fangled electricity which Edison (read General
                              Electric), along with Westinghouse and Sprague so wanted to sell. The early
                              systems supported their investors in more ways than merely from the movement
                              of people. Simplified, the electric power industry grew with the expansion
                              of the urban areas and industry followed cheap electricity. The trolley
                              systems were a vehicle for a developing America.

                              The new lines are primarily to serve the government, or people if you will,
                              by spending tax dollars one way to save other dollars for highways. Now add
                              in the environmental effects and the cost of time spent on the highways
                              commuting at 0 mph and you have the new purpose for mass trainsit. The fast
                              thinkers have to convince the taxpaying public that you build before the
                              need but there is a downside in that as a system goes into service and
                              people begin to use it, the highways become more desireable. Until the
                              Northway comes to a standstill every morning and evening for hours at a time
                              the public won't be ready to invest. The inconvenience today doesn't
                              justify the cost.

                              PKL


                              >From: Knixrule1@...
                              >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                              >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                              >Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Re: trolleys to Chicago
                              >Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 13:44:56 -0500
                              >
                              >I always hoped they would restore a section of trolley track in Schdy or
                              >Albany. I never considered the T in Boston a trolley, but yes, Ive
                              >ridden it. Your cities have a use for mass transport rail systems but
                              >Youll never see another FJ&G trolley system. If and when they start the
                              >Saratoga to Albany CDTA train, it will be great to see another train, but
                              >I expect it to be like canal square, a lot of tax dollars and then close
                              >it after two years of trials.
                              >
                              >SM
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                            • Richard A. Finn
                              Paul, very astute observations. Regards Rich
                              Message 14 of 29 , Jan 4, 2002
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                                Paul, very astute observations.

                                Regards

                                Rich

                                paul larner wrote:

                                 CDTA will be heavy rail.  There aren't enough people working in central
                                capitol area, 1 square mile, to support new construction for light rail
                                according to studies I had seen several years ago.  When dreams run faster
                                than realities you must be prepared to spend a lot of someone's money.  One
                                thing the trolley systems of the early twentieth century did was help to
                                create a market by making it possible for people to move away from the
                                central city.  Not only did new home construction fund the investors who
                                promoted the systems but also owned the developing land but it created a
                                market for that new fangled electricity which Edison (read General
                                Electric), along with Westinghouse and Sprague so wanted to sell.  The early
                                systems supported their investors in more ways than merely from the movement
                                of people. Simplified, the electric power industry grew with the expansion
                                of the urban areas and industry followed cheap electricity.  The trolley
                                systems were a vehicle for a developing America.

                                The new lines are primarily to serve the government, or people if you will,
                                by spending tax dollars one way to save other dollars for highways.  Now add
                                in the environmental effects and the cost of time spent on the highways
                                commuting at 0 mph and you have the new purpose for mass trainsit.  The fast
                                thinkers have to convince the taxpaying public that you build before the
                                need but there is a downside in that as a system goes into service and
                                people begin to use it, the highways become more desireable.  Until the
                                Northway comes to a standstill every morning and evening for hours at a time
                                the public won't be ready to invest.  The inconvenience today doesn't
                                justify the cost.

                                PKL
                                 

                                >From: Knixrule1@...
                                >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                                >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                                >Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Re: trolleys to Chicago
                                >Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 13:44:56 -0500
                                >
                                >I always hoped they would restore a section of trolley track in Schdy or
                                >Albany.  I never considered the T in Boston a trolley, but yes, Ive
                                >ridden it.  Your cities have a use for mass transport rail systems but
                                >Youll never see another FJ&G trolley system.  If and when they start the
                                >Saratoga to Albany CDTA train, it will be great to see another train, but
                                >I expect it to be like canal square, a lot of tax dollars and then close
                                >it after two years of trials.
                                >
                                >SM

                              • Knixrule1@juno.com
                                When I was in Luxemborg, I rode LRV s that where like the ones in Boston. When I rode the train to Buffalo in 1980 and slept with the rats in Buffalo Central
                                Message 15 of 29 , Jan 4, 2002
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                                  When I was in Luxemborg, I rode LRV's that where like the ones in Boston.
                                  When I rode the train to Buffalo in 1980 and slept with the rats in
                                  Buffalo Central Terminal, there was no subway or trolley. I love the old
                                  Buffalo Building, what a station !



                                  Steve Myers
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                                • Knixrule1@juno.com
                                  The Cog railroad was owned by the Boston and Maine Railroad for a while. There is also a cog on Pikes Peak in Colorado. Steve Myers
                                  Message 16 of 29 , Jan 4, 2002
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                                    The Cog railroad was owned by the Boston and Maine Railroad for a while.
                                    There is also a cog on Pikes Peak in Colorado.



                                    Steve Myers
                                    ________________________________________________________________
                                    GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
                                    Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
                                    Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
                                    http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
                                  • dowens15228
                                    Gino: Yeah, Mt Washington in New Hampshire is a real mountain. Ours in Pittsburgh looks high because it s next to the river, and the angle is steep, but the
                                    Message 17 of 29 , Jan 4, 2002
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                                      Gino:

                                      Yeah, Mt Washington in New Hampshire is a real mountain. Ours in
                                      Pittsburgh looks high because it's next to the river, and the angle
                                      is steep, but the US Steel Building (64 stories high) is higher.

                                      As a joke, some people have bumper stickers that say "This car
                                      climbed Mount Washington".

                                      Dan Owens
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