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RE: [FJGRailroad] Re: trolleys to Chicago

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  • Dicarlo, Gino
    Paul, The trolley system in Baltimore is fairly new! It is pretty nice though! I ve been on the San Diego trolley and it is pretty nice! It goes to Tijuana!
    Message 1 of 29 , Jan 3, 2002
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      Paul,

      The trolley system in Baltimore is fairly new! It is pretty nice though!
      I've been on the San Diego
      trolley and it is pretty nice! It goes to Tijuana! The trolley system in
      Philly has some New Brill
      Bullet cars that aren't so different from the old FJG Brill Bullets. I
      think they are still running
      there! I'm sure John Smatlak from the Orange Empire Museum can help us with
      that! They look
      like a new version of the old deal! I'd like to ride one of them! I want
      to say that there are some
      trolley lines in New Jersey as well! Railpace has pictures of them from
      time to time! Hey, while
      we're on this public transit thread, did anyone know that there was a subway
      in Rochester, NY?

      Gino

      > ----------
      > From: paul larner
      > Reply To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2002 11:55 AM
      > To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: RE: [FJGRailroad] Re: trolleys to Chicago
      >
      > Boston is a treat for the trolley fan. I don't recall trolleys in
      > Baltimore
      > at least not of the old school. Philly I have not seen but hear they are
      > good. SanDiego is a new system and I have heard more a waste of
      > taxpayers
      > money than a solution to the traffic problems. Around here it is worth a
      > trip to Boston to ride the cars. Then you an take a trip up to Seashore
      > before heading back home. That would be a couple of days well spent.
      > When
      > you do the Boston cars your wife can shop at the malls and outlet stores
      > around the NH/Me border the nthe whole family would enjoy Seashore - they
      > used to have a great book store as well.
      >
      > PKL
      >
      >
    • Richard A. Finn
      Hello all, I done both, and may I offer some advice? The Green Line is the trolley rapid transit system of the T (Red, Blue and Orange lines are the heavy
      Message 2 of 29 , Jan 3, 2002
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        Hello all,

        I done both, and may I offer some advice?

        The "Green Line" is the trolley rapid transit system of the "T" (Red, Blue and Orange lines are the heavy rail lines).  It runs from the Woodland Station at the Rte 16 exit from routes 128/I 95 to Lechmere Square in Cambridge, about 15 miles.  The cars are articulated, and intown can be very crowded at rush hours (standup cattle cars).  The first subway in US was between Park St. and Boylston St. stations in 1903.  The fare is one buck for the general population, and $0.25 for students and OFs over 65.  Not too bad if you ride from one end to the other.  There is a large commuter parking lot at Woodland.

        Seashore is Museum about 1 1/2 to 2 hour drive from Boston up I 95, a little past the shopping areas in Kittery.  There is a nice museum, and there is a 1 1/2 mile loop to loop ride that runs all day with several of the operating trolleys used alternatively.  There are also "work in progress" trolleys in the barns that can be seen and/or boarded.

        I haven't ridden on it, but the San Diego system is light rail, and the cars look like small European passenger rail cars.  Cute, but not heavily used, except on Fridays and Mondays  when the Mexican workers go and return to/from Tijuana and home for the weekend.  When in San Diego you HAVE to visit the Model Railroad Museum in Balboa Park.

        Rich
         

        paul larner wrote:

         Boston is a treat for the trolley fan.  I don't recall trolleys in Baltimore
        at least not of the old school.  Philly I have not seen but hear they are
        good.   SanDiego is a new system and I have heard more a waste of taxpayers
        money than a solution to the traffic problems.  Around here it is worth a
        trip to Boston to ride the cars. Then you an take a trip up to Seashore
        before heading back home.  That would be a couple of days well spent.  When
        you do the Boston cars your wife can shop at the malls and outlet stores
        around the NH/Me border the nthe whole family would enjoy Seashore - they
        used to have a great book store as well.

        PKL
         

        >From: "Dicarlo, Gino" <Gino.Dicarlo@...>
        >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
        >To: "'FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com'" <FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com>
        >Subject: RE: [FJGRailroad] Re: trolleys to Chicago
        >Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 10:15:47 -0600
        >
        >That's not true!  You can go to Buffalo and take a trolley around downtown!
        >There's also
        >a big trolley system in Baltimore, Philly, Boston and SanDiego!  They may
        >not be as
        >classic as a Saint Louis Car, but they are trolleys no less!  Definitely
        >don't consider those
        >ugly busses calling themselves trolleys in Lake George, Albany & Saratoga!
        >It's funny,
        >every five years or so, there's a group in Albany that talks about
        >restoring
        >the United
        >Traction Company!  They say that's a much better transportation system
        >(environmentally)
        >than the current bus situation!  I'd love to see a belt line trolley like
        >that!  I love public
        >transportation!  If they had a city trolley around here I'd be the first
        >person in line to be
        >an operator...
        >
        >Gino
        >
        > > ----------
        > > From:       Knixrule1@...
        > > Reply To:       FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
        > > Sent:       Thursday, January 3, 2002 10:13 AM
        > > To:       FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
        > > Subject:       Re: [FJGRailroad] Re: trolleys to Chicago
        > >
        > > You are making me long for the days of interesting public
        >transportation.
        > >  Imagine photographing trolleys running through Scotia rather than
        > > watching empty CDTA buses roll past every fifteen minutes.  Alas, we
        >have
        > > built spread out communities and we are hooked to the auto so I guess
        >the
        > > only trolley we will see, is the seashore museum on vacation.
        > >
        > >
        > >

      • glenn_j_williams
        ... Rich is referring to the D - Riverside Line, the above-ground portion of which is built on a former B&A commuter line. There are three other lines on the
        Message 3 of 29 , Jan 3, 2002
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          --- In FJGRailroad@y..., "Richard A. Finn" <ransjfinn@r...> wrote:
          > Hello all,
          >
          > [snip]
          >
          > The "Green Line" is the trolley rapid transit system of the "T"
          > (Red, Blue and Orange lines are the heavy rail lines). It runs from
          > the Woodland Station at the Rte 16 exit from routes 128/I 95 to
          > Lechmere Square in Cambridge, about 15 miles. The cars are
          > articulated, and intown can be very crowded at rush hours (standup
          > cattle cars). [snip] There is a large commuter parking lot at
          > Woodland.

          Rich is referring to the D - Riverside Line, the above-ground portion
          of which is built on a former B&A commuter line. There are three
          other lines on the Green Line, plus one more coming back into service
          (using PCC cars!).

          > Seashore is Museum about 1 1/2 to 2 hour drive from Boston up I 95,
          > a little past the shopping areas in Kittery. There is a nice
          > museum, and there is a 1 1/2 mile loop to loop ride that runs all
          > day with several of the operating trolleys used alternatively.
          > There are also "work in progress" trolleys in the barns that can be
          > seen and/or boarded. [snip]

          Seashore is definitely worth the trip. As PKL mentioned, they have a
          bookstore, one that will blow your budget for a long time.

          For years, the Newark (NJ) City Subway line ran a fleet of PCC cars
          from Twin Cities Rancid Transit. Thirty cars were bought in the
          early 50s, some becoming parts cars in the 90s. The line survived as
          it was all private ROW, with few grade crossings. Under NJ Transit,
          it has been extended eastward, given new overhead and new
          LRV equipment put in service. When the new overhead went in, the
          PCC's poles were replaced with small pantographs. The PCCs went out
          of service in August.

          Glenn
        • Knixrule1@juno.com
          I always hoped they would restore a section of trolley track in Schdy or Albany. I never considered the T in Boston a trolley, but yes, Ive ridden it. Your
          Message 4 of 29 , Jan 3, 2002
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            I always hoped they would restore a section of trolley track in Schdy or
            Albany. I never considered the T in Boston a trolley, but yes, Ive
            ridden it. Your cities have a use for mass transport rail systems but
            Youll never see another FJ&G trolley system. If and when they start the
            Saratoga to Albany CDTA train, it will be great to see another train, but
            I expect it to be like canal square, a lot of tax dollars and then close
            it after two years of trials.

            SM
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          • Lee Morelli
            Glenn, Wow! Kindly clarify the following acronyms and their use: B&A commuter line. (using PCC cars!). Twin Cities Rancid Transit. LRV equipment PCC s poles
            Message 5 of 29 , Jan 3, 2002
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              Glenn,

              Wow! Kindly clarify the following acronyms and their use:

              B&A commuter line.

              (using PCC cars!).

              Twin Cities Rancid Transit.

              LRV equipment

              PCC's poles were replaced with small pantographs.

              Thank you,

              Lee
            • Lee Morelli
              I have a video named The End Of The Line. It is about the Rochester Subway. ... Hey, while we re on this public transit thread, did anyone know that there
              Message 6 of 29 , Jan 3, 2002
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                I have a video named "The End Of The Line." It is about the Rochester Subway.

                >>> Gino.Dicarlo@... 1/3/02 12:14:00 PM >>>
                Hey, while we're on this public transit thread, did anyone know that there was a subway
                in Rochester, NY?

                Gino
              • Lee Morelli
                Anyone have a link to info about this CDTA Saratoga to Albany train? ... I always hoped they would restore a section of trolley track in Schdy or Albany. I
                Message 7 of 29 , Jan 3, 2002
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                  Anyone have a link to info about this CDTA Saratoga to Albany train?

                  >>> Knixrule1@... 1/3/02 1:44:56 PM >>>
                  I always hoped they would restore a section of trolley track in Schdy or
                  Albany. I never considered the T in Boston a trolley, but yes, Ive
                  ridden it. Your cities have a use for mass transport rail systems but
                  Youll never see another FJ&G trolley system. If and when they start the
                  Saratoga to Albany CDTA train, it will be great to see another train, but
                  I expect it to be like canal square, a lot of tax dollars and then close
                  it after two years of trials.

                  SM
                • Richard A. Finn
                  Steve You are correct, they aren t trolleys. In the current vernacular they are Light Rail . In the case of the Green line, the cars ride on the ancient
                  Message 8 of 29 , Jan 3, 2002
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                    Steve

                    You are correct, they aren't trolleys.  In the current vernacular they are "Light Rail".  In the case of the Green line, the cars ride on the ancient trolley roadbed and feed from the ancient catenary.

                    There is a 1920s "woody" trolley from the old MTA at the Seaside Museum that was operating the day we were there.  It really was fun to ride; it brought back some old memories of the 50s when a few were still operating in Beantown.

                    Rich

                    Knixrule1@... wrote:

                     I always hoped they would restore a section of trolley track in Schdy or
                    Albany.  I never considered the T in Boston a trolley, but yes, Ive
                    ridden it.  Your cities have a use for mass transport rail systems but
                    Youll never see another FJ&G trolley system.  If and when they start the
                    Saratoga to Albany CDTA train, it will be great to see another train, but
                    I expect it to be like canal square, a lot of tax dollars and then close
                    it after two years of trials.

                    SM
                    ________________________________________________________________

                  • Dicarlo, Gino
                    ... From: Lee Morelli [mailto:Morelli@ci.rochester.lib.ny.us] Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Re: trolleys to Chicago Anyone have a link to info about this CDTA
                    Message 9 of 29 , Jan 3, 2002
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                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: Lee Morelli [mailto:Morelli@...]
                      Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Re: trolleys to Chicago


                      Anyone have a link to info about this CDTA Saratoga to Albany train?

                      I don't know what's going to happen in the future, but at present they
                      scrapped the plans to run the train from Saratoga to Albany! CP Rail
                      wanted millions of dollars to upgrade the line, something that local
                      government said was not worth it! The project is currently on hold!
                      I was optimistic on it, because I wanted to ride the train to Albany
                      via Mechanicville and Watervliet! That would be a neat ride! Paul
                      Larner says that they will get something done in the future! There
                      is money set aside for the project, but someone wants more! I think
                      the biggest problem is that CDTA is in charge of it! They screw
                      everything up!

                      Gino
                    • Dicarlo, Gino
                      When I said there were trolleys in Boston, I wasn t thinking the T. That is most definitely light rail. I thought there was a classic style, street level
                      Message 10 of 29 , Jan 3, 2002
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                        When I said there were trolleys in Boston, I wasn't thinking the "T." That
                        is most
                        definitely "light rail." I thought there was a classic style, street level
                        trolley operating around Boston somewhere! I've been on the "T" and enjoyed
                        it!

                        Gino
                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: Richard A. Finn [mailto:ransjfinn@...]
                        Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 2:41 PM
                        To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Re: trolleys to Chicago


                        Steve
                        You are correct, they aren't trolleys. In the current vernacular they are
                        "Light Rail". In the case of the Green line, the cars ride on the ancient
                        trolley roadbed and feed from the ancient catenary.
                        There is a 1920s "woody" trolley from the old MTA at the Seaside Museum that
                        was operating the day we were there. It really was fun to ride; it brought
                        back some old memories of the 50s when a few were still operating in
                        Beantown.
                        Rich
                      • Dick Ryall
                        San Francisco has trolleys, and Salt Lake City has new light rail.
                        Message 11 of 29 , Jan 3, 2002
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                          San Francisco has trolleys, and Salt Lake City has new light rail.

                          paul larner wrote:
                          >
                          > Boston is a treat for the trolley fan. I don't recall trolleys in Baltimore
                          > at least not of the old school. Philly I have not seen but hear they are
                          > good. SanDiego is a new system and I have heard more a waste of taxpayers
                          > money than a solution to the traffic problems. Around here it is worth a
                          > trip to Boston to ride the cars. Then you an take a trip up to Seashore
                          > before heading back home. That would be a couple of days well spent. When
                          > you do the Boston cars your wife can shop at the malls and outlet stores
                          > around the NH/Me border the nthe whole family would enjoy Seashore - they
                          > used to have a great book store as well.
                          >
                          > PKL
                          >
                          > >From: "Dicarlo, Gino" <Gino.Dicarlo@...>
                          > >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                          > >To: "'FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com'" <FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com>
                          > >Subject: RE: [FJGRailroad] Re: trolleys to Chicago
                          > >Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 10:15:47 -0600
                          > >
                          > >That's not true! You can go to Buffalo and take a trolley around downtown!
                          > >There's also
                          > >a big trolley system in Baltimore, Philly, Boston and SanDiego! They may
                          > >not be as
                          > >classic as a Saint Louis Car, but they are trolleys no less! Definitely
                          > >don't consider those
                          > >ugly busses calling themselves trolleys in Lake George, Albany & Saratoga!
                          > >It's funny,
                          > >every five years or so, there's a group in Albany that talks about
                          > >restoring
                          > >the United
                          > >Traction Company! They say that's a much better transportation system
                          > >(environmentally)
                          > >than the current bus situation! I'd love to see a belt line trolley like
                          > >that! I love public
                          > >transportation! If they had a city trolley around here I'd be the first
                          > >person in line to be
                          > >an operator...
                          > >
                          > >Gino
                          > >
                          > > > ----------
                          > > > From: Knixrule1@...
                          > > > Reply To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                          > > > Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2002 10:13 AM
                          > > > To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                          > > > Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Re: trolleys to Chicago
                          > > >
                          > > > You are making me long for the days of interesting public
                          > >transportation.
                          > > > Imagine photographing trolleys running through Scotia rather than
                          > > > watching empty CDTA buses roll past every fifteen minutes. Alas, we
                          > >have
                          > > > built spread out communities and we are hooked to the auto so I guess
                          > >the
                          > > > only trolley we will see, is the seashore museum on vacation.
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          >
                          > _________________________________________________________________
                          > Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
                          >
                          >
                          > Visit Gino's F.J.G.R.R. Page at
                          > http://www.capital.net/~dicarlos/
                          >
                          > Visit The Greater Capital District Railfan Assocation At http://www.trainweb.com/gcdra/
                          >
                          > Visit The Site For Existing Railroad Stations
                          > in New York State at
                          > http://ny.existingstations.com/
                          >
                          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                        • glenn_j_williams
                          ... Let s see if I can do this without making things even murkier! ... In 1959, the MTA (now the MBTA - Mass. Bay Trans. Auth.) bought a steam/diesel line used
                          Message 12 of 29 , Jan 3, 2002
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                            --- In FJGRailroad@y..., "Lee Morelli" <Morelli@c...> wrote:
                            > Glenn,
                            >
                            > Wow! Kindly clarify the following acronyms and their use:

                            Let's see if I can do this without making things even murkier!

                            > B&A commuter line.

                            In 1959, the MTA (now the MBTA - Mass. Bay Trans. Auth.) bought a
                            steam/diesel line used by the Boston and Albany for commuter service,
                            refurbished it, installed overhead, made a connection to the Park
                            Street subway line at Kenmore Square, and viola! the D - Riverside
                            Line was created.

                            > (using PCC cars!).

                            The MBTA has been under orders for some time to restore service on
                            the Arborway line, one of the lines which comprise the Green Line. It
                            was finally decided that streetcars would be used. I'm not sure, but
                            I believe there are enough older PCC (President's Conference
                            Committee cars serviceable to do it.

                            > Twin Cities Rancid Transit

                            This was how residents of Minneapolis/St. Paul derisively referred to
                            Twin Cities Rapid Transit. Their PCC cars were wider than most
                            others, which was a deciding factor in their ending up in Newark.
                            Most other cities (including Boston) couldn't use them because of
                            their broad beam, but clearances on the City Subway line were wide
                            enough.

                            > LRV equipment

                            LRV - Light Rail Vehicle, today's version of the trolley car. They
                            have lots of modern features (which sometimes don't work),
                            can be run in train-like configuration, and can be made handicap
                            accessible, which is a must these days.

                            > PCC's poles were replaced with small pantographs

                            When NJ Transit upgraded the City Subway overhead wire, it was
                            evidently of the style that wouldn't allow continued use of trolley
                            poles. Thus, the trolley poles were removed from the rear of each
                            car and a smallish pantograph placed toward the front of each car.

                            Glenn
                          • Richard A. Finn
                            Sorry Gino, all gone. As I said the nearest one that I know of is in the Seaside Museum. Of course there are these motorized imitation tourist trolleys .
                            Message 13 of 29 , Jan 3, 2002
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                              Sorry Gino, all gone.

                              As I said the nearest one that I know of is in the Seaside Museum.  Of course there are these motorized imitation tourist "trolleys".  There are some electric busses running in North Cambridge from Harvard Square T station.  (Well now I am not sure they are still there either.  They were there 3 years ago before I retired from MIT, and on the way home I would race them up Mt Auburn St. and try not get caught behind one at a stop.)

                              I just remembered that we will be in Naw Lens (New Orleans to us Yankees) at the end of the month.  People have suggested that I would enjoy riding the trolleys there.  Do any of you folks have any suggestions?  BTW, there is a N O street car named "Desire" on exhibit at the Seaside Museum.

                              Rich
                               

                              "Dicarlo, Gino" wrote:

                               When I said there were trolleys in Boston, I wasn't thinking the "T."  That
                              is most
                              definitely "light rail."  I thought there was a classic style, street level
                              trolley operating around Boston somewhere!  I've been on the "T" and enjoyed
                              it!

                              Gino
                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: Richard A. Finn [mailto:ransjfinn@...]
                              Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 2:41 PM
                              To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Re: trolleys to Chicago
                               
                               

                            • dowens15228
                              You sure are right about those Frisco cable cars Dick! They are a blast to ride up and down the hills, and then everybody gets to help turn the car on the
                              Message 14 of 29 , Jan 3, 2002
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                                You sure are right about those Frisco cable cars Dick! They are a
                                blast to ride up and down the hills, and then everybody gets to help
                                turn the car on the turntable at the end.

                                I was surprised how little they are though. They are not much longer
                                than the Incline cars ( Inclined Planes ) that we have going up Mt
                                Washington in Pittsburgh.

                                Dan Owens
                              • Malcolm Horton
                                Everyone interested in railroads should make it a point to ride the Mt. Washington cog railroad. It is virtually the same as it was when it was built in 1868.
                                Message 15 of 29 , Jan 3, 2002
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                                  Everyone interested in railroads should make it a point to ride the Mt. Washington cog railroad. It is virtually the same as it was when it was built in 1868. All the trains are steam powered (hand fired with coal). There is never more than one passenger car to a train and it is always on the uphill side of the locomotive. There is no coupling between the locomotive and the car. Gravity alone keeps them in touch. One has a horizontal steel roller and the other has a vertical steel roller at their point of contact, to allow for gross misalignment. The maximum grade is 35% (climb is 35 feet for 100 feet of track). There are no level sections. The locomotive boilers are short and large in diameter and are tilted forward with respect to the plane of the four wheels. This is necessary to prevent the water from uncovering the flue pipes when on the steep grades. When going upgrade, a hinged pawl on the underside of the car is let down and bounces along on the gear rack. This is to prevent the car from rolling backward in case the locomotive derails and leaves the scene. When going down hill, the pawl is fully raised and the brakeman on the lower end of the car constantly mans the brakes such that the car is just barely touching the locomotive. This is to prevent the car from running away if the locomotive derails. The fireman has to work very hard when going uphill for obvious reasons. When going downhill, the pistons are used as air compressors to hold the train back. Steam is only turned on to stop the locomotive. Obviously the fireman has very little to do when going downhill. The switches are very complicated and require several separate manual operations to switch both the running rails and the gear track.
                                   
                                  Don't put off going to see this mechanical marvel. Someday you may read that they have gone to diesel operation and then it will be too late.
                                   
                                  The ride is not very bumpy because the speed is always very slow. Because of the steep grades, you feel like you are lying on your back with your feet in the air.
                                   
                                  Malcolm Horton
                                   
                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  From: Richard A. Finn
                                  Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 1:18 AM
                                  To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Mt. Washington Cog Railway (Re: trolleys to Chicago)
                                   
                                  Gino

                                  I have been told by a friend who did the trip on the Cog Railway that it is a very jarring ride and a once (only once) in a lifetime experience.  We did the auto road once in July.  Temperature was in the low 80s at the base, and 37 at the summit.  The wind chill is very severe.  The summit is about 6,300 feet.

                                  Rich

                                  glenn_j_williams wrote:

                                   --- In FJGRailroad@y..., "Dicarlo, Gino" <Gino.Dicarlo@q...> wrote:
                                  > Isn't there a Mount Washington in New Hampshire that could be
                                  > reached by some sort of a trolley or tram?
                                  >
                                  > Gino

                                  Gino,

                                  You're thinking of the Mount Washington Cog Railway, a truly unique

                                  railroad.  It runs from the base to the summit, including a meet with
                                  a train from the other direction.  Cog railway switches are something
                                  to see.

                                  Anyone going to visit it should bring warm clothes, as the summit
                                  never gets above 65 degrees and is frequently in the clouds.  Be
                                  warned, too: it's an expensive trip.

                                       Glenn
                                   


                                  Visit Gino's F.J.G.R.R. Page at
                                  http://www.capital.net/~dicarlos/

                                  Visit The Greater Capital District Railfan Assocation At http://www.trainweb.com/gcdra/

                                  Visit The Site For Existing Railroad Stations
                                  in New York State at
                                  http://ny.existingstations.com/

                                  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

                                • Dicarlo, Gino
                                  Isn t there a Mount Washington in New Hampshire that could be reached by some sort of a trolley or tram? Gino ... From: dowens15228
                                  Message 16 of 29 , Jan 3, 2002
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                                    Isn't there a Mount Washington in New Hampshire that could be
                                    reached by some sort of a trolley or tram?

                                    Gino

                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: dowens15228 [mailto:supportone@...]
                                    Subject: [FJGRailroad] Re: trolleys to Chicago


                                    You sure are right about those Frisco cable cars Dick! They are a
                                    blast to ride up and down the hills, and then everybody gets to help
                                    turn the car on the turntable at the end.

                                    I was surprised how little they are though. They are not much longer
                                    than the Incline cars ( Inclined Planes ) that we have going up Mt
                                    Washington in Pittsburgh.

                                    Dan Owens
                                  • glenn_j_williams
                                    ... Gino, You re thinking of the Mount Washington Cog Railway, a truly unique railroad. It runs from the base to the summit, including a meet with a train
                                    Message 17 of 29 , Jan 3, 2002
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                                      --- In FJGRailroad@y..., "Dicarlo, Gino" <Gino.Dicarlo@q...> wrote:
                                      > Isn't there a Mount Washington in New Hampshire that could be
                                      > reached by some sort of a trolley or tram?
                                      >
                                      > Gino

                                      Gino,

                                      You're thinking of the Mount Washington Cog Railway, a truly unique
                                      railroad. It runs from the base to the summit, including a meet with
                                      a train from the other direction. Cog railway switches are something
                                      to see.

                                      Anyone going to visit it should bring warm clothes, as the summit
                                      never gets above 65 degrees and is frequently in the clouds. Be
                                      warned, too: it's an expensive trip.

                                      Glenn
                                    • glenn_j_williams
                                      ... Rich, To me, the best part of my New Orleans trips was riding the Charles Street trolleys. There are several downtown boarding locations adjacent to Canal
                                      Message 18 of 29 , Jan 3, 2002
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                                        --- In FJGRailroad@y..., "Richard A. Finn" <ransjfinn@r...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > [snip]
                                        >
                                        > I just remembered that we will be in Naw Lens (New Orleans to us
                                        > Yankees) at the end of the month. People have suggested that I
                                        > would enjoy riding the trolleys there. Do any of you folks have any
                                        > suggestions?
                                        > [snip]
                                        >
                                        > Rich

                                        Rich,

                                        To me, the best part of my New Orleans trips was riding the Charles
                                        Street trolleys. There are several downtown boarding locations
                                        adjacent to Canal Street.

                                        Also, the Canal Street line is being reactivated out to Cemeteries.
                                        New trolleys, similar in style to the existing ones, are being
                                        constructed. Don't know if it is still there, but an ulta-sleek
                                        Czech trolley was running up and down the Canal Street line and onto
                                        the Riverside line when I was last there 18 months ago.

                                        And you *must* go to Cafe Du Monde for coffee and beignets. Wicked
                                        good!

                                        Otherwise, the Bourbon Street area is grossly overrated, particularly
                                        at night. Unless you don't mind drunks and unintentional 'business
                                        meetings' with representatives from Our Lady of the Evening, that is.

                                        Glenn
                                      • Richard A. Finn
                                        Gino I have been told by a friend who did the trip on the Cog Railway that it is a very jarring ride and a once (only once) in a lifetime experience. We did
                                        Message 19 of 29 , Jan 3, 2002
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                                          Gino

                                          I have been told by a friend who did the trip on the Cog Railway that it is a very jarring ride and a once (only once) in a lifetime experience.  We did the auto road once in July.  Temperature was in the low 80s at the base, and 37 at the summit.  The wind chill is very severe.  The summit is about 6,300 feet.

                                          Rich

                                          glenn_j_williams wrote:

                                           --- In FJGRailroad@y..., "Dicarlo, Gino" <Gino.Dicarlo@q...> wrote:
                                          > Isn't there a Mount Washington in New Hampshire that could be
                                          > reached by some sort of a trolley or tram?
                                          >
                                          > Gino

                                          Gino,

                                          You're thinking of the Mount Washington Cog Railway, a truly unique
                                          railroad.  It runs from the base to the summit, including a meet with
                                          a train from the other direction.  Cog railway switches are something
                                          to see.

                                          Anyone going to visit it should bring warm clothes, as the summit
                                          never gets above 65 degrees and is frequently in the clouds.  Be
                                          warned, too: it's an expensive trip.

                                               Glenn
                                           


                                          Visit Gino's F.J.G.R.R. Page at
                                          http://www.capital.net/~dicarlos/

                                          Visit The Greater Capital District Railfan Assocation At http://www.trainweb.com/gcdra/

                                          Visit The Site For Existing Railroad Stations
                                          in New York State at
                                          http://ny.existingstations.com/

                                          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

                                        • psefton@crosslink.net
                                          My wife and I rode the trolleys when we visited there in March. they are a staple method of transportation, as it is very difficult to park or make reasonable
                                          Message 20 of 29 , Jan 3, 2002
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                                            My wife and I rode the trolleys when we visited there in March. they are a
                                            staple method of transportation, as it is very difficult to park or make
                                            reasonable progress by car through the French Quarter.

                                            They get very crowded when people start to go out for the evening around
                                            dinner time.


                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                            From: glenn_j_williams <103424.2304@...>
                                            To: <FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com>
                                            Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 7:23 PM
                                            Subject: [FJGRailroad] New Orleans (Re: trolleys to Chicago)


                                            > --- In FJGRailroad@y..., "Richard A. Finn" <ransjfinn@r...> wrote:
                                            > >
                                            > > [snip]
                                            > >
                                            > > I just remembered that we will be in Naw Lens (New Orleans to us
                                            > > Yankees) at the end of the month. People have suggested that I
                                            > > would enjoy riding the trolleys there. Do any of you folks have any
                                            > > suggestions?
                                            > > [snip]
                                            > >
                                            > > Rich
                                            >
                                            > Rich,
                                            >
                                            > To me, the best part of my New Orleans trips was riding the Charles
                                            > Street trolleys. There are several downtown boarding locations
                                            > adjacent to Canal Street.
                                            >
                                            > Also, the Canal Street line is being reactivated out to Cemeteries.
                                            > New trolleys, similar in style to the existing ones, are being
                                            > constructed. Don't know if it is still there, but an ulta-sleek
                                            > Czech trolley was running up and down the Canal Street line and onto
                                            > the Riverside line when I was last there 18 months ago.
                                            >
                                            > And you *must* go to Cafe Du Monde for coffee and beignets. Wicked
                                            > good!
                                            >
                                            > Otherwise, the Bourbon Street area is grossly overrated, particularly
                                            > at night. Unless you don't mind drunks and unintentional 'business
                                            > meetings' with representatives from Our Lady of the Evening, that is.
                                            >
                                            > Glenn
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > Visit Gino's F.J.G.R.R. Page at
                                            > http://www.capital.net/~dicarlos/
                                            >
                                            > Visit The Greater Capital District Railfan Assocation At
                                            http://www.trainweb.com/gcdra/
                                            >
                                            > Visit The Site For Existing Railroad Stations
                                            > in New York State at
                                            > http://ny.existingstations.com/
                                            >
                                            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                            >
                                            >
                                          • Dick Ryall
                                            Rjight on cable cars, San Francisco also has real trollys too.
                                            Message 21 of 29 , Jan 3, 2002
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                                              Rjight on cable cars, San Francisco also has real trollys too.

                                              dowens15228 wrote:
                                              >
                                              > You sure are right about those Frisco cable cars Dick! They are a
                                              > blast to ride up and down the hills, and then everybody gets to help
                                              > turn the car on the turntable at the end.
                                              >
                                              > I was surprised how little they are though. They are not much longer
                                              > than the Incline cars ( Inclined Planes ) that we have going up Mt
                                              > Washington in Pittsburgh.
                                              >
                                              > Dan Owens
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Visit Gino's F.J.G.R.R. Page at
                                              > http://www.capital.net/~dicarlos/
                                              >
                                              > Visit The Greater Capital District Railfan Assocation At http://www.trainweb.com/gcdra/
                                              >
                                              > Visit The Site For Existing Railroad Stations
                                              > in New York State at
                                              > http://ny.existingstations.com/
                                              >
                                              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                            • paul larner
                                              CDTA will be heavy rail. There aren t enough people working in central capitol area, 1 square mile, to support new construction for light rail according to
                                              Message 22 of 29 , Jan 3, 2002
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                                                CDTA will be heavy rail. There aren't enough people working in central
                                                capitol area, 1 square mile, to support new construction for light rail
                                                according to studies I had seen several years ago. When dreams run faster
                                                than realities you must be prepared to spend a lot of someone's money. One
                                                thing the trolley systems of the early twentieth century did was help to
                                                create a market by making it possible for people to move away from the
                                                central city. Not only did new home construction fund the investors who
                                                promoted the systems but also owned the developing land but it created a
                                                market for that new fangled electricity which Edison (read General
                                                Electric), along with Westinghouse and Sprague so wanted to sell. The early
                                                systems supported their investors in more ways than merely from the movement
                                                of people. Simplified, the electric power industry grew with the expansion
                                                of the urban areas and industry followed cheap electricity. The trolley
                                                systems were a vehicle for a developing America.

                                                The new lines are primarily to serve the government, or people if you will,
                                                by spending tax dollars one way to save other dollars for highways. Now add
                                                in the environmental effects and the cost of time spent on the highways
                                                commuting at 0 mph and you have the new purpose for mass trainsit. The fast
                                                thinkers have to convince the taxpaying public that you build before the
                                                need but there is a downside in that as a system goes into service and
                                                people begin to use it, the highways become more desireable. Until the
                                                Northway comes to a standstill every morning and evening for hours at a time
                                                the public won't be ready to invest. The inconvenience today doesn't
                                                justify the cost.

                                                PKL


                                                >From: Knixrule1@...
                                                >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                                                >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                                                >Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Re: trolleys to Chicago
                                                >Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 13:44:56 -0500
                                                >
                                                >I always hoped they would restore a section of trolley track in Schdy or
                                                >Albany. I never considered the T in Boston a trolley, but yes, Ive
                                                >ridden it. Your cities have a use for mass transport rail systems but
                                                >Youll never see another FJ&G trolley system. If and when they start the
                                                >Saratoga to Albany CDTA train, it will be great to see another train, but
                                                >I expect it to be like canal square, a lot of tax dollars and then close
                                                >it after two years of trials.
                                                >
                                                >SM
                                                >________________________________________________________________
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                                              • Richard A. Finn
                                                Paul, very astute observations. Regards Rich
                                                Message 23 of 29 , Jan 4, 2002
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                                                  Paul, very astute observations.

                                                  Regards

                                                  Rich

                                                  paul larner wrote:

                                                   CDTA will be heavy rail.  There aren't enough people working in central
                                                  capitol area, 1 square mile, to support new construction for light rail
                                                  according to studies I had seen several years ago.  When dreams run faster
                                                  than realities you must be prepared to spend a lot of someone's money.  One
                                                  thing the trolley systems of the early twentieth century did was help to
                                                  create a market by making it possible for people to move away from the
                                                  central city.  Not only did new home construction fund the investors who
                                                  promoted the systems but also owned the developing land but it created a
                                                  market for that new fangled electricity which Edison (read General
                                                  Electric), along with Westinghouse and Sprague so wanted to sell.  The early
                                                  systems supported their investors in more ways than merely from the movement
                                                  of people. Simplified, the electric power industry grew with the expansion
                                                  of the urban areas and industry followed cheap electricity.  The trolley
                                                  systems were a vehicle for a developing America.

                                                  The new lines are primarily to serve the government, or people if you will,
                                                  by spending tax dollars one way to save other dollars for highways.  Now add
                                                  in the environmental effects and the cost of time spent on the highways
                                                  commuting at 0 mph and you have the new purpose for mass trainsit.  The fast
                                                  thinkers have to convince the taxpaying public that you build before the
                                                  need but there is a downside in that as a system goes into service and
                                                  people begin to use it, the highways become more desireable.  Until the
                                                  Northway comes to a standstill every morning and evening for hours at a time
                                                  the public won't be ready to invest.  The inconvenience today doesn't
                                                  justify the cost.

                                                  PKL
                                                   

                                                  >From: Knixrule1@...
                                                  >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                                                  >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                                                  >Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Re: trolleys to Chicago
                                                  >Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 13:44:56 -0500
                                                  >
                                                  >I always hoped they would restore a section of trolley track in Schdy or
                                                  >Albany.  I never considered the T in Boston a trolley, but yes, Ive
                                                  >ridden it.  Your cities have a use for mass transport rail systems but
                                                  >Youll never see another FJ&G trolley system.  If and when they start the
                                                  >Saratoga to Albany CDTA train, it will be great to see another train, but
                                                  >I expect it to be like canal square, a lot of tax dollars and then close
                                                  >it after two years of trials.
                                                  >
                                                  >SM

                                                • Knixrule1@juno.com
                                                  When I was in Luxemborg, I rode LRV s that where like the ones in Boston. When I rode the train to Buffalo in 1980 and slept with the rats in Buffalo Central
                                                  Message 24 of 29 , Jan 4, 2002
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                                                    When I was in Luxemborg, I rode LRV's that where like the ones in Boston.
                                                    When I rode the train to Buffalo in 1980 and slept with the rats in
                                                    Buffalo Central Terminal, there was no subway or trolley. I love the old
                                                    Buffalo Building, what a station !



                                                    Steve Myers
                                                    ________________________________________________________________
                                                    GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
                                                    Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
                                                    Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
                                                    http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
                                                  • Knixrule1@juno.com
                                                    The Cog railroad was owned by the Boston and Maine Railroad for a while. There is also a cog on Pikes Peak in Colorado. Steve Myers
                                                    Message 25 of 29 , Jan 4, 2002
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                                                      The Cog railroad was owned by the Boston and Maine Railroad for a while.
                                                      There is also a cog on Pikes Peak in Colorado.



                                                      Steve Myers
                                                      ________________________________________________________________
                                                      GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
                                                      Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
                                                      Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
                                                      http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
                                                    • dowens15228
                                                      Gino: Yeah, Mt Washington in New Hampshire is a real mountain. Ours in Pittsburgh looks high because it s next to the river, and the angle is steep, but the
                                                      Message 26 of 29 , Jan 4, 2002
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                                                        Gino:

                                                        Yeah, Mt Washington in New Hampshire is a real mountain. Ours in
                                                        Pittsburgh looks high because it's next to the river, and the angle
                                                        is steep, but the US Steel Building (64 stories high) is higher.

                                                        As a joke, some people have bumper stickers that say "This car
                                                        climbed Mount Washington".

                                                        Dan Owens
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