Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: Single Track vs. Double Track on Electric Division

Expand Messages
  • Glenn Williams
    Additional info that I forgot to put in my original note: in talking with Dave Nestle a few years back when he was in Johnstown, he mentioned that Fort
    Message 1 of 21 , Sep 8, 2000
    • 0 Attachment
      Additional info that I forgot to put in my original note: in talking
      with Dave Nestle a few years back when he was in Johnstown, he
      mentioned that Fort Johnson and the extreme east end (just where I
      didn't think to ask) had single track sections.

      The section in Fort Johnson that I recall from the mid to late 50s,
      when I traced the private ROW, was all double track to just east of
      where Route 5 originally crossed over the ROW. At this point (and
      here's where 40-year-old memories get me in trouble) I believe the
      line split between Guy Park Ave. and West Main Street. Might this be
      the single track section?

      At the extreme east end, well, I never had much opportunity to go
      tromping east of Hoffman's.

      [BTW, in the small-world-isn't-it category, Dave mentioned that his
      family was originally from Stone Arabia. So was my mother's; she
      used to remark that the Palatine Dutch were all related, either by
      blood or marriage. I always thought she was joshing until I read the
      family geneology. Dave and I concluded that we were related, albeit
      perhaps at the 10th degree of consanguinity.]

      Glenn
    • paul larner
      The line was single track from just west of Fort Johnson to the split at Division and Main on the west end of Amsterdam. In the thirties, can t remember the
      Message 2 of 21 , Sep 8, 2000
      • 0 Attachment
        The line was single track from just west of Fort Johnson to the split at
        Division and Main on the west end of Amsterdam. In the thirties, can't
        remember the date off the top of my head, the track on Main street in
        Amsterdam, between Market St. and the east end where it left route 5, was
        single tracked with turnouts installed. The stretch between Sulphur Springs
        Jct and downtown Johnstown was also a single track portion. All interurban
        service betrween J ang G was operated north or west on Market and along the
        steam div to the steam depot then up to the Four Corners. Eastward the cars
        went south on Main to River around the car barn then over the back line to
        Miller St. then east or south along Perry St to Main then south as single
        track along Market St. to Sulphur Springs Jct.

        The tracks from the west end of the Mohawk River Bridge into Schenectady
        were not FJ&G.

        Block signals were used on the single track Interurban, outside city limits
        and the Fonda line.

        PKL


        >From: "Glenn Williams" <103424.2304@...>
        >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@egroups.com
        >To: FJGRailroad@egroups.com
        >Subject: [FJGRailroad] Single Track vs. Double Track on Electric Division
        >Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2000 19:53:17 -0000
        >
        >Okay, folks, here's one for us to ponder over the weekend:
        >
        >What part of the Electric Division between Sulphur Springs Junction
        >and Scotia (discounting Amsterdam city trackage) was single track?
        >
        >I had always thought, based on what I had heard and read, that it was
        >double-tracked end to end, mainly as a reaction to the Mountain Lakes
        >accident. Then I heard there were short sections that were single
        >track.
        >
        >So, I thought I'd throw it out for us all to chew on for a while.
        >
        > Glenn
        >

        _________________________________________________________________________
        Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com

        Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
        http://profiles.msn.com
      • Saul Kalbfeld
        According to the Johnstown map I have from Trolleys Down the Mohawk Valley, the main line came off Miller St. and paralled the steam div. track until Market
        Message 3 of 21 , Sep 8, 2000
        • 0 Attachment
          According to the Johnstown map I have from Trolleys Down the Mohawk
          Valley, the main line came off Miller St. and paralled the steam div.
          track until Market St. where it diverged. The line on Perry St. is
          marked as the local line. I never realized that cars going south on
          Main in Gloversville could only get to the "back line" by turning at
          River St. and passing through the trolley yard. In ICC 1928 pix #119
          which is a photo of the yard office, there is a track which passes
          between the office and the barn which must have been the south bound
          main line. This track appears to be well maintained in the picture.
          Also, what happened to the back line south of Miller St. When was
          that abandoned and when did the substation near Prindle Ave go off
          line?

          Saul
        • Dicarlo, Gino
          Speaking of that substation in Johnstown, what was that used for? Also, is that building still there? I believe Bob Bedford (Who lived around the corner from
          Message 4 of 21 , Sep 9, 2000
          • 0 Attachment
            Speaking of that substation in Johnstown, what was that used for? Also,
            is that building still there? I believe Bob Bedford (Who lived around
            the corner from there) told me that the former Sears building on 30a was
            where the substation. The building that Sears used to be in looks pretty
            old and I always thought it could be the same as the substation...

            Gino
          • Randy & Lorraine Decker
            It is Gino, Used to be the original power for the Cayadutta Electric RR before conversion to a substation for the big plant in Tribes Hill?? Before the
            Message 5 of 21 , Sep 9, 2000
            • 0 Attachment
              It is Gino, Used to be the original power for the Cayadutta Electric RR
              before conversion to a substation for the big plant in Tribes Hill?? Before
              the Cayadutta put this in they were looking at obtaining power from the
              hydroelectric station that had been built on the creek right where the
              Walmart distribution center is now! there is a small waterfalls down there
              and this is the source of the lighting for the city of Johnstown in there
              earliest years. Don't know all the details but they just did not have
              enough amperage & or voltage and the cost to upgrade was to much?? so this
              plan was abandoned and the plant was built in Johnstown

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Dicarlo, Gino <GDICARLO@...>
              To: <FJGRailroad@egroups.com>
              Cc: <GDICARLO@...>
              Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2000 8:41 AM
              Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Re: Single Track vs. Double Track on Electric
              Division


              >
              > Speaking of that substation in Johnstown, what was that used for? Also,
              > is that building still there? I believe Bob Bedford (Who lived around
              > the corner from there) told me that the former Sears building on 30a was
              > where the substation. The building that Sears used to be in looks pretty
              > old and I always thought it could be the same as the substation...
              >
              > Gino
              >
              > Visit Gino's F.J.G.R.R. Page at
              > http://www.capital.net/~dicarlos/
              >
              > Visit The Greater Capital District Railfan Assocation At
              http://www.trainweb.com/gcdra/
              >
              > Visit The Site For Existing Railroad Stations
              > in New York State at
              > http://ny.existingstations.com/
              >
            • Dicarlo, Gino
              That waterfall you mention Randy is beautiful! I believe it was a main attraction at Cayadutta Park. It looks just as good now as it does in old postcards.
              Message 6 of 21 , Sep 9, 2000
              • 0 Attachment
                That waterfall you mention Randy is beautiful! I believe it was a main
                attraction at Cayadutta Park. It looks just as good now as it does in
                old postcards. Does anyone know what creek that is? Someone asked me
                before if it's the Cayadutta, but the Cayadutta is near the Steam line...

                Gino
              • Glenn Williams
                ... The water feeding the waterfall comes from 3 separate creeks, maybe more, that I can account for on my topo maps. There are no names given them on my
                Message 7 of 21 , Sep 9, 2000
                • 0 Attachment
                  --- In FJGRailroad@egroups.com, "Dicarlo, Gino" <GDICARLO@Q...> wrote:
                  > That waterfall you mention Randy is beautiful! I believe it was a
                  > main attraction at Cayadutta Park. It looks just as good now as it
                  > does in old postcards. Does anyone know what creek that is?
                  > Someone asked me before if it's the Cayadutta, but the Cayadutta is
                  > near the Steam line...
                  >
                  > Gino

                  The water feeding the waterfall comes from 3 separate creeks, maybe
                  more, that I can account for on my topo maps. There are no names
                  given them on my copies. The combined creek enters the Cayadutta
                  south of the Berryville trestle.

                  Glenn
                • Randy & Lorraine Decker
                  NO Gino this waterfall is not the same one the one in the shots is from one of the tributaries the name is on the maps but I can t remember it?? the falls I
                  Message 8 of 21 , Sep 9, 2000
                  • 0 Attachment
                    NO Gino this waterfall is not the same one the one in the shots is from one
                    of the tributaries the name is on the maps but I can't remember it?? the
                    falls I am speaking of is quite wide and not very high and it is the
                    Cayadutta Creek itself reminants of the old Plant are still there and I
                    have several photo's of it in it's heyday but I have not researched it to
                    any degree I believe Bob Bedford wrote some articles for the Leader in the
                    past about this Hydro Plant the Cayadutta Park falls is on the stream that
                    crosses rt. 30a by the Legion Hall one of the stone bridges is still visible
                    just to the west of rt. 30a as you cross this poing up on the hill out of
                    Fonda. I have yet to explore the Cayadutta Park area in any depth perhaps
                    this would be a fun trip for some of us one of these weekends ????

                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: Dicarlo, Gino <GDICARLO@...>
                    To: <FJGRailroad@egroups.com>
                    Cc: <GDICARLO@...>
                    Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2000 10:58 AM
                    Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Re: Single Track vs. Double Track on Electric
                    Division


                    >
                    > That waterfall you mention Randy is beautiful! I believe it was a main
                    > attraction at Cayadutta Park. It looks just as good now as it does in
                    > old postcards. Does anyone know what creek that is? Someone asked me
                    > before if it's the Cayadutta, but the Cayadutta is near the Steam line...
                    >
                    > Gino
                    >
                    > Visit Gino's F.J.G.R.R. Page at
                    > http://www.capital.net/~dicarlos/
                    >
                    > Visit The Greater Capital District Railfan Assocation At
                    http://www.trainweb.com/gcdra/
                    >
                    > Visit The Site For Existing Railroad Stations
                    > in New York State at
                    > http://ny.existingstations.com/
                    >
                  • Gino And Kelly DiCarlo
                    The trip from Fonda up to Route 30 through the woods is beautifull. There are still ties left from the cayadutta electric! the right of way is very easy to
                    Message 9 of 21 , Sep 9, 2000
                    • 0 Attachment
                      The trip from Fonda up to Route 30 through the woods is beautifull.
                      There are still ties left from the cayadutta electric! the right of way
                      is very easy to trace. There is also a stone whistle post right near Fonda.
                      I walked it about 15 years ago and it was great!

                      Gino

                      > From: "Randy & Lorraine Decker" <rldecker@...>
                      > Reply-To: FJGRailroad@egroups.com
                      > Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2000 20:42:39 -0400
                      > To: <FJGRailroad@egroups.com>
                      > Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Re: Single Track vs. Double Track on Electric
                      > Division
                      >
                      >
                      > NO Gino this waterfall is not the same one the one in the shots is from one
                      > of the tributaries the name is on the maps but I can't remember it?? the
                      > falls I am speaking of is quite wide and not very high and it is the
                      > Cayadutta Creek itself reminants of the old Plant are still there and I
                      > have several photo's of it in it's heyday but I have not researched it to
                      > any degree I believe Bob Bedford wrote some articles for the Leader in the
                      > past about this Hydro Plant the Cayadutta Park falls is on the stream that
                      > crosses rt. 30a by the Legion Hall one of the stone bridges is still visible
                      > just to the west of rt. 30a as you cross this poing up on the hill out of
                      > Fonda. I have yet to explore the Cayadutta Park area in any depth perhaps
                      > this would be a fun trip for some of us one of these weekends ????
                      >
                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      > From: Dicarlo, Gino <GDICARLO@...>
                      > To: <FJGRailroad@egroups.com>
                      > Cc: <GDICARLO@...>
                      > Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2000 10:58 AM
                      > Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Re: Single Track vs. Double Track on Electric
                      > Division
                      >
                      >
                      >>
                      >> That waterfall you mention Randy is beautiful! I believe it was a main
                      >> attraction at Cayadutta Park. It looks just as good now as it does in
                      >> old postcards. Does anyone know what creek that is? Someone asked me
                      >> before if it's the Cayadutta, but the Cayadutta is near the Steam line...
                      >>
                      >> Gino
                      >>
                      >> Visit Gino's F.J.G.R.R. Page at
                      >> http://www.capital.net/~dicarlos/
                      >>
                      >> Visit The Greater Capital District Railfan Assocation At
                      > http://www.trainweb.com/gcdra/
                      >>
                      >> Visit The Site For Existing Railroad Stations
                      >> in New York State at
                      >> http://ny.existingstations.com/
                      >>
                      >
                      >
                      > Visit Gino's F.J.G.R.R. Page at
                      > http://www.capital.net/~dicarlos/
                      >
                      > Visit The Greater Capital District Railfan Assocation At
                      > http://www.trainweb.com/gcdra/
                      >
                      > Visit The Site For Existing Railroad Stations
                      > in New York State at
                      > http://ny.existingstations.com/
                      >
                      >
                    • paul larner
                      The line north on Market St. paralleled the Steam line to the Steam station on West Fulton St. etc. This is a later line. The line on Miller St. was built
                      Message 10 of 21 , Sep 9, 2000
                      • 0 Attachment
                        The line north on Market St. paralleled the Steam line to the Steam station
                        on West Fulton St. etc. This is a later line. The line on Miller St. was
                        built during the Cayadutta time as it didn't have to cross the steam line
                        and could serve J'town. The Cayadutta as originally built didn't go into J.
                        This was just a bit later than the original construction. Would have to
                        dig some to give more details. They will be out eventually; am getting
                        there. I believe you could access the back line using the same crossovers
                        that existed when we remember between Hill and S. Main St., but the
                        interurbans went the way described to keep that portion of the route current
                        of traffic. Local traffic was on the JG&K, which maintained a separate
                        existence till shortly after the FJ&G decided to abandon local trolley
                        service. The JG&K tracks were utilized in J until the Schenectady extension
                        when the north Market St. and parallel tracks were installed.

                        Hillside Park was served only one way. If you were going from J'town to
                        Hillside Park you had to go to G'ville and get a transfer to get to HP on
                        the next southbound car.

                        The local line went across Main St. in J'town to William St. then south a
                        couple blocks.

                        The back line south of Miller was in place into the thirties, but rarely
                        used after they stopped hauling coal and freight. I'll get it all together
                        later. In the first years of operation occasionally a car of freight was
                        hauled by the trolley engine from Ft. Johnson to Starr's Mill or
                        Parkhurst's. I don't imagine this lasted too long but there are records of
                        the freight moves. Methinks the earliest freight moves were done by steam,
                        either No. 5 (the 2-6-0) or one of the Forneys. THere are a couple of
                        references. There was some friction between the city and the railroad over
                        this track, that on Market St. and South William St. This is off the top of
                        my head and it's late but the city wanted the unused back line torn up in
                        order to complete Knox Field. The railroad wanted some concessions in the
                        street track. Details to follow.

                        PKL


                        >From: "Saul Kalbfeld" <skalbfel@...>
                        >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@egroups.com
                        >To: FJGRailroad@egroups.com
                        >Subject: [FJGRailroad] Re: Single Track vs. Double Track on Electric
                        >Division
                        >Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2000 02:48:13 -0000
                        >
                        >According to the Johnstown map I have from Trolleys Down the Mohawk
                        >Valley, the main line came off Miller St. and paralled the steam div.
                        >track until Market St. where it diverged. The line on Perry St. is
                        >marked as the local line. I never realized that cars going south on
                        >Main in Gloversville could only get to the "back line" by turning at
                        >River St. and passing through the trolley yard. In ICC 1928 pix #119
                        >which is a photo of the yard office, there is a track which passes
                        >between the office and the barn which must have been the south bound
                        >main line. This track appears to be well maintained in the picture.
                        >Also, what happened to the back line south of Miller St. When was
                        >that abandoned and when did the substation near Prindle Ave go off
                        >line?
                        >
                        >Saul
                        >

                        _________________________________________________________________________
                        Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com

                        Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
                        http://profiles.msn.com
                      • Glenn Williams
                        ... Paul, A belated follow-up to your response. First off, thanks for the information on how the interurbans wended their way to and fro in Johnstown and
                        Message 11 of 21 , Nov 25, 2000
                        • 0 Attachment
                          --- In FJGRailroad@egroups.com, "paul larner" <pklarner@h...> wrote:
                          > The line was single track from just west of Fort Johnson to the
                          > split at Division and Main on the west end of Amsterdam.
                          > [snip]

                          Paul,

                          A belated follow-up to your response. First off, thanks for the
                          information on how the interurbans wended their way to and fro in
                          Johnstown and Gloversville; you answered the question before I asked
                          it.

                          As for the section through Fort Johnson being single track, I'm not
                          sure about that. Gino has two pictures in his web pages showing
                          double track. In his Brill-Bullets [sic] section, 125 is shown
                          eastbound near the Amsterdam line, "just passing the State Road
                          Crossing" on double track. In his Trolleys section, he has the meet
                          between 60 and 125 "near Fort Johnson," actually at the west end,
                          again on double track. [BTW, Gino, this is a Bob Bedford shot, for I
                          have a print from the original negative which Bob lent me] I've
                          gone over the 1928 ICC shots, too, but nothing is terribly definitive
                          to refer to. Before Route 5 was rebuilt and relocated in Fort
                          Johnson, it was easy to see and walk the old roadbed; it seemed to me
                          at the time that it was all double track under the high tension wire
                          towers.

                          Would any of the local Sanborn maps indicate more clearly what
                          trackage was where? Some of the real estate valuation maps in
                          Westchester were valuable to me in researching the New York,
                          Westchester & Boston back in the late 50s when I was doing real
                          estate title work.

                          Somewhere in my files I have a sketch (not to scale) of the trackage
                          from Sulphur Springs Jct. to where the Back Line split off. When I
                          locate it, I'll scan it and send it along.

                          Glenn
                        • paul larner
                          Glenn, I ll upload three attachment to the files under title Akin. I couldn t attach them here account to latge to be sent???? These should answer some of
                          Message 12 of 21 , Nov 25, 2000
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Glenn, I'll upload three attachment to the files under title Akin. I
                            couldn't attach them here account to latge to be sent???? These should
                            answer some of your questions. I don't believe this section was ever double
                            tracked, certainly there is no indication it was and plenty of opposition
                            from the locals.

                            PKL


                            _____________________________________________________________________________________
                            Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
                          • Paul Charland
                            Hi Paul, e-Groups doesn t allow attachments with messages, not sure how Gino is doing it, I think he is going to the web site and sending them from there.
                            Message 13 of 21 , Nov 25, 2000
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Hi Paul,

                              e-Groups doesn't allow attachments with messages, not sure how Gino is doing it, I think he is going to the web
                              site and sending them from there. Moderator's privilege I guess!

                              Paul :-)

                              paul larner wrote:

                              > Glenn, I'll upload three attachment to the files under title Akin. I
                              > couldn't attach them here account to latge to be sent???? These should
                              > answer some of your questions. I don't believe this section was ever double
                              > tracked, certainly there is no indication it was and plenty of opposition
                              > from the locals.
                              >
                              > PKL
                              >
                              > _____________________________________________________________________________________
                              > Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
                              >
                              >
                              > Visit Gino's F.J.G.R.R. Page at
                              > http://www.capital.net/~dicarlos/
                              >
                              > Visit The Greater Capital District Railfan Assocation At http://www.trainweb.com/gcdra/
                              >
                              > Visit The Site For Existing Railroad Stations
                              > in New York State at
                              > http://ny.existingstations.com/
                              >
                              > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                              > Name: Akin - track plan.jpg
                              > Akin - track plan.jpg Type: CompuPic (image/pjpeg)
                              > Encoding: base64
                              >
                              > Name: Block Rules - Akin to West Main Street Jct..jpg
                              > Block Rules - Akin to West Main Street Jct..jpg Type: CompuPic (image/pjpeg)
                              > Encoding: base64
                              >
                              > Name: Block Rules - Akin and West Main St. Jct.jpg
                              > Block Rules - Akin and West Main St. Jct.jpg Type: CompuPic (image/pjpeg)
                              > Encoding: base64
                            • paul larner
                              Well there was enough room to get the track plan in (also shows the track between Sulphur Springs and Johnstown) and the cover of the rules for that single
                              Message 14 of 21 , Nov 25, 2000
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Well there was enough room to get the track plan in (also shows the track
                                between Sulphur Springs and Johnstown) and the cover of the rules for that
                                single track section. Unfortunately the rules themselves will have to wait
                                for more space.

                                Paul


                                >From: Paul Charland <p.charlie@...>
                                >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@egroups.com
                                >To: FJGRailroad@egroups.com
                                >Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Re: Single Track vs. Double Track on Electric
                                >Division
                                >Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 21:16:13 -0500
                                >
                                >Hi Paul,
                                >
                                >e-Groups doesn't allow attachments with messages, not sure how Gino is
                                >doing it, I think he is going to the web
                                >site and sending them from there. Moderator's privilege I guess!
                                >
                                >Paul :-)
                                >
                                >paul larner wrote:
                                >
                                > > Glenn, I'll upload three attachment to the files under title Akin. I
                                > > couldn't attach them here account to latge to be sent???? These should
                                > > answer some of your questions. I don't believe this section was ever
                                >double
                                > > tracked, certainly there is no indication it was and plenty of
                                >opposition
                                > > from the locals.
                                > >
                                > > PKL
                                > >
                                > >
                                >_____________________________________________________________________________________
                                > > Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download :
                                >http://explorer.msn.com
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > Visit Gino's F.J.G.R.R. Page at
                                > > http://www.capital.net/~dicarlos/
                                > >
                                > > Visit The Greater Capital District Railfan Assocation At
                                >http://www.trainweb.com/gcdra/
                                > >
                                > > Visit The Site For Existing Railroad Stations
                                > > in New York State at
                                > > http://ny.existingstations.com/
                                > >
                                > >
                                >------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                > > Name: Akin - track plan.jpg
                                > > Akin - track plan.jpg Type: CompuPic (image/pjpeg)
                                > > Encoding: base64
                                > >
                                > > Name: Block Rules
                                >- Akin to West Main Street Jct..jpg
                                > > Block Rules - Akin to West Main Street Jct..jpg Type: CompuPic
                                >(image/pjpeg)
                                > > Encoding: base64
                                > >
                                > > Name: Block Rules -
                                >Akin and West Main St. Jct.jpg
                                > > Block Rules - Akin and West Main St. Jct.jpg Type: CompuPic
                                >(image/pjpeg)
                                > > Encoding: base64
                                >

                                _____________________________________________________________________________________
                                Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
                              • Paul Charland
                                Hi Paul, Just have to wait and see what Gino wants to do. I think we could open a second FJ&G group to get another 20 Mb, and if so, I will move all the
                                Message 15 of 21 , Nov 25, 2000
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Hi Paul,

                                  Just have to wait and see what Gino wants to do. I think we could open a second FJ&G group
                                  to get another 20 Mb, and if so, I will move all the magazine articles over there and free
                                  up 5 Mb or so here. That way all the ICC stuff can stay in one place. Glenn has offered
                                  to open a site through his ISP, but that maxs out at 10 meg, and scanning full pages can
                                  take up a lot of space fast. If you want to get the file up tonight, I'll go in and remove
                                  a two or three page article that I just posted. That should free up about 0.7 meg.

                                  Paul

                                  paul larner wrote:

                                  > Well there was enough room to get the track plan in (also shows the track
                                  > between Sulphur Springs and Johnstown) and the cover of the rules for that
                                  > single track section. Unfortunately the rules themselves will have to wait
                                  > for more space.
                                  >
                                  > Paul
                                  >
                                  > >From: Paul Charland <p.charlie@...>
                                  > >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@egroups.com
                                  > >To: FJGRailroad@egroups.com
                                  > >Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Re: Single Track vs. Double Track on Electric
                                  > >Division
                                  > >Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 21:16:13 -0500
                                  > >
                                  > >Hi Paul,
                                  > >
                                  > >e-Groups doesn't allow attachments with messages, not sure how Gino is
                                  > >doing it, I think he is going to the web
                                  > >site and sending them from there. Moderator's privilege I guess!
                                  > >
                                  > >Paul :-)
                                  > >
                                  > >paul larner wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > > Glenn, I'll upload three attachment to the files under title Akin. I
                                  > > > couldn't attach them here account to latge to be sent???? These should
                                  > > > answer some of your questions. I don't believe this section was ever
                                  > >double
                                  > > > tracked, certainly there is no indication it was and plenty of
                                  > >opposition
                                  > > > from the locals.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > PKL
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > >_____________________________________________________________________________________
                                  > > > Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download :
                                  > >http://explorer.msn.com
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Visit Gino's F.J.G.R.R. Page at
                                  > > > http://www.capital.net/~dicarlos/
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Visit The Greater Capital District Railfan Assocation At
                                  > >http://www.trainweb.com/gcdra/
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Visit The Site For Existing Railroad Stations
                                  > > > in New York State at
                                  > > > http://ny.existingstations.com/
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > >------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                  > > > Name: Akin - track plan.jpg
                                  > > > Akin - track plan.jpg Type: CompuPic (image/pjpeg)
                                  > > > Encoding: base64
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Name: Block Rules
                                  > >- Akin to West Main Street Jct..jpg
                                  > > > Block Rules - Akin to West Main Street Jct..jpg Type: CompuPic
                                  > >(image/pjpeg)
                                  > > > Encoding: base64
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Name: Block Rules -
                                  > >Akin and West Main St. Jct.jpg
                                  > > > Block Rules - Akin and West Main St. Jct.jpg Type: CompuPic
                                  > >(image/pjpeg)
                                  > > > Encoding: base64
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > _____________________________________________________________________________________
                                  > Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Visit Gino's F.J.G.R.R. Page at
                                  > http://www.capital.net/~dicarlos/
                                  >
                                  > Visit The Greater Capital District Railfan Assocation At http://www.trainweb.com/gcdra/
                                  >
                                  > Visit The Site For Existing Railroad Stations
                                  > in New York State at
                                  > http://ny.existingstations.com/
                                • paul larner
                                  Paul, Thank you, but that won t be necessary. It was merely some material I had squirrelled away that would add insight one of the several questions we have
                                  Message 16 of 21 , Nov 25, 2000
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Paul, Thank you, but that won't be necessary. It was merely some material
                                    I had squirrelled away that would add insight one of the several questions
                                    we have about the line. What was able to be received will answer the
                                    question. There will always be a later day, besides if too much goes in
                                    there won't be a need for the book. (Still a ways off, time never enough
                                    time)

                                    PKL


                                    >From: Paul Charland <p.charlie@...>
                                    >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@egroups.com
                                    >To: FJGRailroad@egroups.com
                                    >Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Re: Single Track vs. Double Track on Electric
                                    >Division
                                    >Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 22:15:40 -0500
                                    >
                                    >Hi Paul,
                                    >
                                    >Just have to wait and see what Gino wants to do. I think we could open a
                                    >second FJ&G group
                                    >to get another 20 Mb, and if so, I will move all the magazine articles over
                                    >there and free
                                    >up 5 Mb or so here. That way all the ICC stuff can stay in one place.
                                    >Glenn has offered
                                    >to open a site through his ISP, but that maxs out at 10 meg, and scanning
                                    >full pages can
                                    >take up a lot of space fast. If you want to get the file up tonight, I'll
                                    >go in and remove
                                    >a two or three page article that I just posted. That should free up about
                                    >0.7 meg.
                                    >
                                    >Paul
                                    >
                                    >paul larner wrote:
                                    >
                                    > > Well there was enough room to get the track plan in (also shows the
                                    >track
                                    > > between Sulphur Springs and Johnstown) and the cover of the rules for
                                    >that
                                    > > single track section. Unfortunately the rules themselves will have to
                                    >wait
                                    > > for more space.
                                    > >
                                    > > Paul
                                    > >
                                    > > >From: Paul Charland <p.charlie@...>
                                    > > >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@egroups.com
                                    > > >To: FJGRailroad@egroups.com
                                    > > >Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Re: Single Track vs. Double Track on
                                    >Electric
                                    > > >Division
                                    > > >Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 21:16:13 -0500
                                    > > >
                                    > > >Hi Paul,
                                    > > >
                                    > > >e-Groups doesn't allow attachments with messages, not sure how Gino is
                                    > > >doing it, I think he is going to the web
                                    > > >site and sending them from there. Moderator's privilege I guess!
                                    > > >
                                    > > >Paul :-)
                                    > > >
                                    > > >paul larner wrote:
                                    > > >
                                    > > > > Glenn, I'll upload three attachment to the files under title Akin.
                                    >I
                                    > > > > couldn't attach them here account to latge to be sent???? These
                                    >should
                                    > > > > answer some of your questions. I don't believe this section was
                                    >ever
                                    > > >double
                                    > > > > tracked, certainly there is no indication it was and plenty of
                                    > > >opposition
                                    > > > > from the locals.
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > PKL
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > >
                                    > >_____________________________________________________________________________________
                                    > > > > Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download :
                                    > > >http://explorer.msn.com
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Visit Gino's F.J.G.R.R. Page at
                                    > > > > http://www.capital.net/~dicarlos/
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Visit The Greater Capital District Railfan Assocation At
                                    > > >http://www.trainweb.com/gcdra/
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Visit The Site For Existing Railroad Stations
                                    > > > > in New York State at
                                    > > > > http://ny.existingstations.com/
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > >
                                    > >------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                    > > > > Name: Akin - track plan.jpg
                                    > > > > Akin - track plan.jpg Type: CompuPic (image/pjpeg)
                                    > > > > Encoding: base64
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Name: Block
                                    >Rules
                                    > > >- Akin to West Main Street Jct..jpg
                                    > > > > Block Rules - Akin to West Main Street Jct..jpg Type: CompuPic
                                    > > >(image/pjpeg)
                                    > > > > Encoding: base64
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Name: Block Rules
                                    >-
                                    > > >Akin and West Main St. Jct.jpg
                                    > > > > Block Rules - Akin and West Main St. Jct.jpg Type: CompuPic
                                    > > >(image/pjpeg)
                                    > > > > Encoding: base64
                                    > > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    >_____________________________________________________________________________________
                                    > > Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download :
                                    >http://explorer.msn.com
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > Visit Gino's F.J.G.R.R. Page at
                                    > > http://www.capital.net/~dicarlos/
                                    > >
                                    > > Visit The Greater Capital District Railfan Assocation At
                                    >http://www.trainweb.com/gcdra/
                                    > >
                                    > > Visit The Site For Existing Railroad Stations
                                    > > in New York State at
                                    > > http://ny.existingstations.com/
                                    >

                                    _____________________________________________________________________________________
                                    Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
                                  • Paul Charland
                                    Hi Paul, Starting to think there is enough material for The FJ&G on CD ! Would be nice as a back up someday. Paul
                                    Message 17 of 21 , Nov 25, 2000
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Hi Paul,

                                      Starting to think there is enough material for 'The FJ&G on CD'! Would be nice as a back up
                                      someday.

                                      Paul

                                      paul larner wrote:

                                      > Paul, Thank you, but that won't be necessary. It was merely some material
                                      > I had squirrelled away that would add insight one of the several questions
                                      > we have about the line. What was able to be received will answer the
                                      > question. There will always be a later day, besides if too much goes in
                                      > there won't be a need for the book. (Still a ways off, time never enough
                                      > time)
                                      >
                                      > PKL
                                      >
                                      > >From: Paul Charland <p.charlie@...>
                                      > >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@egroups.com
                                      > >To: FJGRailroad@egroups.com
                                      > >Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Re: Single Track vs. Double Track on Electric
                                      > >Division
                                      > >Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 22:15:40 -0500
                                      > >
                                      > >Hi Paul,
                                      > >
                                      > >Just have to wait and see what Gino wants to do. I think we could open a
                                      > >second FJ&G group
                                      > >to get another 20 Mb, and if so, I will move all the magazine articles over
                                      > >there and free
                                      > >up 5 Mb or so here. That way all the ICC stuff can stay in one place.
                                      > >Glenn has offered
                                      > >to open a site through his ISP, but that maxs out at 10 meg, and scanning
                                      > >full pages can
                                      > >take up a lot of space fast. If you want to get the file up tonight, I'll
                                      > >go in and remove
                                      > >a two or three page article that I just posted. That should free up about
                                      > >0.7 meg.
                                      > >
                                      > >Paul
                                      > >
                                      > >paul larner wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > > Well there was enough room to get the track plan in (also shows the
                                      > >track
                                      > > > between Sulphur Springs and Johnstown) and the cover of the rules for
                                      > >that
                                      > > > single track section. Unfortunately the rules themselves will have to
                                      > >wait
                                      > > > for more space.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Paul
                                      > > >
                                      > > > >From: Paul Charland <p.charlie@...>
                                      > > > >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@egroups.com
                                      > > > >To: FJGRailroad@egroups.com
                                      > > > >Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Re: Single Track vs. Double Track on
                                      > >Electric
                                      > > > >Division
                                      > > > >Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 21:16:13 -0500
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >Hi Paul,
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >e-Groups doesn't allow attachments with messages, not sure how Gino is
                                      > > > >doing it, I think he is going to the web
                                      > > > >site and sending them from there. Moderator's privilege I guess!
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >Paul :-)
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >paul larner wrote:
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > > Glenn, I'll upload three attachment to the files under title Akin.
                                      > >I
                                      > > > > > couldn't attach them here account to latge to be sent???? These
                                      > >should
                                      > > > > > answer some of your questions. I don't believe this section was
                                      > >ever
                                      > > > >double
                                      > > > > > tracked, certainly there is no indication it was and plenty of
                                      > > > >opposition
                                      > > > > > from the locals.
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > PKL
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >_____________________________________________________________________________________
                                      > > > > > Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download :
                                      > > > >http://explorer.msn.com
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > Visit Gino's F.J.G.R.R. Page at
                                      > > > > > http://www.capital.net/~dicarlos/
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > Visit The Greater Capital District Railfan Assocation At
                                      > > > >http://www.trainweb.com/gcdra/
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > Visit The Site For Existing Railroad Stations
                                      > > > > > in New York State at
                                      > > > > > http://ny.existingstations.com/
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                      > > > > > Name: Akin - track plan.jpg
                                      > > > > > Akin - track plan.jpg Type: CompuPic (image/pjpeg)
                                      > > > > > Encoding: base64
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > Name: Block
                                      > >Rules
                                      > > > >- Akin to West Main Street Jct..jpg
                                      > > > > > Block Rules - Akin to West Main Street Jct..jpg Type: CompuPic
                                      > > > >(image/pjpeg)
                                      > > > > > Encoding: base64
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > Name: Block Rules
                                      > >-
                                      > > > >Akin and West Main St. Jct.jpg
                                      > > > > > Block Rules - Akin and West Main St. Jct.jpg Type: CompuPic
                                      > > > >(image/pjpeg)
                                      > > > > > Encoding: base64
                                      > > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > >_____________________________________________________________________________________
                                      > > > Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download :
                                      > >http://explorer.msn.com
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Visit Gino's F.J.G.R.R. Page at
                                      > > > http://www.capital.net/~dicarlos/
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Visit The Greater Capital District Railfan Assocation At
                                      > >http://www.trainweb.com/gcdra/
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Visit The Site For Existing Railroad Stations
                                      > > > in New York State at
                                      > > > http://ny.existingstations.com/
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > _____________________________________________________________________________________
                                      > Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Visit Gino's F.J.G.R.R. Page at
                                      > http://www.capital.net/~dicarlos/
                                      >
                                      > Visit The Greater Capital District Railfan Assocation At http://www.trainweb.com/gcdra/
                                      >
                                      > Visit The Site For Existing Railroad Stations
                                      > in New York State at
                                      > http://ny.existingstations.com/
                                    • Glenn Williams
                                      ... Paul, Those track maps are truly fascinating. The detailed one for Akin appears to have been done at the time of construction, showing the then-current
                                      Message 18 of 21 , Nov 26, 2000
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        --- In FJGRailroad@egroups.com, "paul larner" <pklarner@h...> wrote:
                                        > Glenn, I'll upload three attachment to the files under title Akin.

                                        > I couldn't attach them here account to latge to be sent???? These
                                        > should answer some of your questions. I don't believe this section
                                        > was ever double tracked, certainly there is no indication it was
                                        > and plenty of opposition from the locals.
                                        >
                                        > PKL
                                        >

                                        Paul,

                                        Those track maps are truly fascinating.

                                        The detailed one for Akin appears to have been done at the time of
                                        construction, showing the then-current Mohawk Turnpike (Route 5) and
                                        the proposed relocation. I noted that J. Ledlie Hees was shown on
                                        one of the plots, along with a member of the Akin family. The
                                        smaller Akin map, showing from the Tribes Hill trestle to Akin,
                                        answered several questions about trackage around the power plant.

                                        The Sulphur Springs Jct map also answered questions over how Fonda
                                        cars made their way to and fro. It's not terribly obvious, but just
                                        north of the junction is a crossover from the eastbound (southbound)
                                        main to the westbound (northbound) main. There may have been
                                        another, from westbound to eastbound, but I wonder if there would
                                        have been a need for that one other than emergencies.

                                        Again, thanks for taking the time and effort to clear things up for
                                        me. I appreciate the effort.

                                        Glenn
                                      • paul larner
                                        I ll put up the rules to finish out that folder tonight. PKL ... _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more
                                        Message 19 of 21 , Nov 26, 2000
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          I'll put up the rules to finish out that folder tonight.

                                          PKL


                                          >From: "Glenn Williams" <103424.2304@...>
                                          >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@egroups.com
                                          >To: FJGRailroad@egroups.com
                                          >Subject: [FJGRailroad] Re: Single Track vs. Double Track on Electric
                                          >Division
                                          >Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 23:45:55 -0000
                                          >
                                          >--- In FJGRailroad@egroups.com, "paul larner" <pklarner@h...> wrote:
                                          > > Glenn, I'll upload three attachment to the files under title Akin.
                                          >
                                          > > I couldn't attach them here account to latge to be sent???? These
                                          > > should answer some of your questions. I don't believe this section
                                          > > was ever double tracked, certainly there is no indication it was
                                          > > and plenty of opposition from the locals.
                                          > >
                                          > > PKL
                                          > >
                                          >
                                          >Paul,
                                          >
                                          >Those track maps are truly fascinating.
                                          >
                                          >The detailed one for Akin appears to have been done at the time of
                                          >construction, showing the then-current Mohawk Turnpike (Route 5) and
                                          >the proposed relocation. I noted that J. Ledlie Hees was shown on
                                          >one of the plots, along with a member of the Akin family. The
                                          >smaller Akin map, showing from the Tribes Hill trestle to Akin,
                                          >answered several questions about trackage around the power plant.
                                          >
                                          >The Sulphur Springs Jct map also answered questions over how Fonda
                                          >cars made their way to and fro. It's not terribly obvious, but just
                                          >north of the junction is a crossover from the eastbound (southbound)
                                          >main to the westbound (northbound) main. There may have been
                                          >another, from westbound to eastbound, but I wonder if there would
                                          >have been a need for that one other than emergencies.
                                          >
                                          >Again, thanks for taking the time and effort to clear things up for
                                          >me. I appreciate the effort.
                                          >
                                          > Glenn
                                          >

                                          _____________________________________________________________________________________
                                          Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
                                        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.