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Single Track vs. Double Track on Electric Division

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  • Glenn Williams
    Okay, folks, here s one for us to ponder over the weekend: What part of the Electric Division between Sulphur Springs Junction and Scotia (discounting
    Message 1 of 21 , Sep 8, 2000
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      Okay, folks, here's one for us to ponder over the weekend:

      What part of the Electric Division between Sulphur Springs Junction
      and Scotia (discounting Amsterdam city trackage) was single track?

      I had always thought, based on what I had heard and read, that it was
      double-tracked end to end, mainly as a reaction to the Mountain Lakes
      accident. Then I heard there were short sections that were single
      track.

      So, I thought I'd throw it out for us all to chew on for a while.

      Glenn
    • Dicarlo, Gino
      Glenn, I ve got an old map that shows double track all the way to Rotterdam Jct. Of course, through Amsterdam being the exception. My map isn t really
      Message 2 of 21 , Sep 8, 2000
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        Glenn,

        I've got an old map that shows double track all the way to Rotterdam Jct.
        Of course, through Amsterdam being the exception. My map isn't really
        complete past the Junction so I don't know how far it was double after
        that section. I'll bet Paul Larner knows!

        Gino
      • Glenn Williams
        Additional info that I forgot to put in my original note: in talking with Dave Nestle a few years back when he was in Johnstown, he mentioned that Fort
        Message 3 of 21 , Sep 8, 2000
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          Additional info that I forgot to put in my original note: in talking
          with Dave Nestle a few years back when he was in Johnstown, he
          mentioned that Fort Johnson and the extreme east end (just where I
          didn't think to ask) had single track sections.

          The section in Fort Johnson that I recall from the mid to late 50s,
          when I traced the private ROW, was all double track to just east of
          where Route 5 originally crossed over the ROW. At this point (and
          here's where 40-year-old memories get me in trouble) I believe the
          line split between Guy Park Ave. and West Main Street. Might this be
          the single track section?

          At the extreme east end, well, I never had much opportunity to go
          tromping east of Hoffman's.

          [BTW, in the small-world-isn't-it category, Dave mentioned that his
          family was originally from Stone Arabia. So was my mother's; she
          used to remark that the Palatine Dutch were all related, either by
          blood or marriage. I always thought she was joshing until I read the
          family geneology. Dave and I concluded that we were related, albeit
          perhaps at the 10th degree of consanguinity.]

          Glenn
        • paul larner
          The line was single track from just west of Fort Johnson to the split at Division and Main on the west end of Amsterdam. In the thirties, can t remember the
          Message 4 of 21 , Sep 8, 2000
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            The line was single track from just west of Fort Johnson to the split at
            Division and Main on the west end of Amsterdam. In the thirties, can't
            remember the date off the top of my head, the track on Main street in
            Amsterdam, between Market St. and the east end where it left route 5, was
            single tracked with turnouts installed. The stretch between Sulphur Springs
            Jct and downtown Johnstown was also a single track portion. All interurban
            service betrween J ang G was operated north or west on Market and along the
            steam div to the steam depot then up to the Four Corners. Eastward the cars
            went south on Main to River around the car barn then over the back line to
            Miller St. then east or south along Perry St to Main then south as single
            track along Market St. to Sulphur Springs Jct.

            The tracks from the west end of the Mohawk River Bridge into Schenectady
            were not FJ&G.

            Block signals were used on the single track Interurban, outside city limits
            and the Fonda line.

            PKL


            >From: "Glenn Williams" <103424.2304@...>
            >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@egroups.com
            >To: FJGRailroad@egroups.com
            >Subject: [FJGRailroad] Single Track vs. Double Track on Electric Division
            >Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2000 19:53:17 -0000
            >
            >Okay, folks, here's one for us to ponder over the weekend:
            >
            >What part of the Electric Division between Sulphur Springs Junction
            >and Scotia (discounting Amsterdam city trackage) was single track?
            >
            >I had always thought, based on what I had heard and read, that it was
            >double-tracked end to end, mainly as a reaction to the Mountain Lakes
            >accident. Then I heard there were short sections that were single
            >track.
            >
            >So, I thought I'd throw it out for us all to chew on for a while.
            >
            > Glenn
            >

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          • Saul Kalbfeld
            According to the Johnstown map I have from Trolleys Down the Mohawk Valley, the main line came off Miller St. and paralled the steam div. track until Market
            Message 5 of 21 , Sep 8, 2000
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              According to the Johnstown map I have from Trolleys Down the Mohawk
              Valley, the main line came off Miller St. and paralled the steam div.
              track until Market St. where it diverged. The line on Perry St. is
              marked as the local line. I never realized that cars going south on
              Main in Gloversville could only get to the "back line" by turning at
              River St. and passing through the trolley yard. In ICC 1928 pix #119
              which is a photo of the yard office, there is a track which passes
              between the office and the barn which must have been the south bound
              main line. This track appears to be well maintained in the picture.
              Also, what happened to the back line south of Miller St. When was
              that abandoned and when did the substation near Prindle Ave go off
              line?

              Saul
            • Dicarlo, Gino
              Speaking of that substation in Johnstown, what was that used for? Also, is that building still there? I believe Bob Bedford (Who lived around the corner from
              Message 6 of 21 , Sep 9, 2000
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                Speaking of that substation in Johnstown, what was that used for? Also,
                is that building still there? I believe Bob Bedford (Who lived around
                the corner from there) told me that the former Sears building on 30a was
                where the substation. The building that Sears used to be in looks pretty
                old and I always thought it could be the same as the substation...

                Gino
              • Randy & Lorraine Decker
                It is Gino, Used to be the original power for the Cayadutta Electric RR before conversion to a substation for the big plant in Tribes Hill?? Before the
                Message 7 of 21 , Sep 9, 2000
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                  It is Gino, Used to be the original power for the Cayadutta Electric RR
                  before conversion to a substation for the big plant in Tribes Hill?? Before
                  the Cayadutta put this in they were looking at obtaining power from the
                  hydroelectric station that had been built on the creek right where the
                  Walmart distribution center is now! there is a small waterfalls down there
                  and this is the source of the lighting for the city of Johnstown in there
                  earliest years. Don't know all the details but they just did not have
                  enough amperage & or voltage and the cost to upgrade was to much?? so this
                  plan was abandoned and the plant was built in Johnstown

                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: Dicarlo, Gino <GDICARLO@...>
                  To: <FJGRailroad@egroups.com>
                  Cc: <GDICARLO@...>
                  Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2000 8:41 AM
                  Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Re: Single Track vs. Double Track on Electric
                  Division


                  >
                  > Speaking of that substation in Johnstown, what was that used for? Also,
                  > is that building still there? I believe Bob Bedford (Who lived around
                  > the corner from there) told me that the former Sears building on 30a was
                  > where the substation. The building that Sears used to be in looks pretty
                  > old and I always thought it could be the same as the substation...
                  >
                  > Gino
                  >
                  > Visit Gino's F.J.G.R.R. Page at
                  > http://www.capital.net/~dicarlos/
                  >
                  > Visit The Greater Capital District Railfan Assocation At
                  http://www.trainweb.com/gcdra/
                  >
                  > Visit The Site For Existing Railroad Stations
                  > in New York State at
                  > http://ny.existingstations.com/
                  >
                • Dicarlo, Gino
                  That waterfall you mention Randy is beautiful! I believe it was a main attraction at Cayadutta Park. It looks just as good now as it does in old postcards.
                  Message 8 of 21 , Sep 9, 2000
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                    That waterfall you mention Randy is beautiful! I believe it was a main
                    attraction at Cayadutta Park. It looks just as good now as it does in
                    old postcards. Does anyone know what creek that is? Someone asked me
                    before if it's the Cayadutta, but the Cayadutta is near the Steam line...

                    Gino
                  • Glenn Williams
                    ... The water feeding the waterfall comes from 3 separate creeks, maybe more, that I can account for on my topo maps. There are no names given them on my
                    Message 9 of 21 , Sep 9, 2000
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                      --- In FJGRailroad@egroups.com, "Dicarlo, Gino" <GDICARLO@Q...> wrote:
                      > That waterfall you mention Randy is beautiful! I believe it was a
                      > main attraction at Cayadutta Park. It looks just as good now as it
                      > does in old postcards. Does anyone know what creek that is?
                      > Someone asked me before if it's the Cayadutta, but the Cayadutta is
                      > near the Steam line...
                      >
                      > Gino

                      The water feeding the waterfall comes from 3 separate creeks, maybe
                      more, that I can account for on my topo maps. There are no names
                      given them on my copies. The combined creek enters the Cayadutta
                      south of the Berryville trestle.

                      Glenn
                    • Randy & Lorraine Decker
                      NO Gino this waterfall is not the same one the one in the shots is from one of the tributaries the name is on the maps but I can t remember it?? the falls I
                      Message 10 of 21 , Sep 9, 2000
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                        NO Gino this waterfall is not the same one the one in the shots is from one
                        of the tributaries the name is on the maps but I can't remember it?? the
                        falls I am speaking of is quite wide and not very high and it is the
                        Cayadutta Creek itself reminants of the old Plant are still there and I
                        have several photo's of it in it's heyday but I have not researched it to
                        any degree I believe Bob Bedford wrote some articles for the Leader in the
                        past about this Hydro Plant the Cayadutta Park falls is on the stream that
                        crosses rt. 30a by the Legion Hall one of the stone bridges is still visible
                        just to the west of rt. 30a as you cross this poing up on the hill out of
                        Fonda. I have yet to explore the Cayadutta Park area in any depth perhaps
                        this would be a fun trip for some of us one of these weekends ????

                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: Dicarlo, Gino <GDICARLO@...>
                        To: <FJGRailroad@egroups.com>
                        Cc: <GDICARLO@...>
                        Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2000 10:58 AM
                        Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Re: Single Track vs. Double Track on Electric
                        Division


                        >
                        > That waterfall you mention Randy is beautiful! I believe it was a main
                        > attraction at Cayadutta Park. It looks just as good now as it does in
                        > old postcards. Does anyone know what creek that is? Someone asked me
                        > before if it's the Cayadutta, but the Cayadutta is near the Steam line...
                        >
                        > Gino
                        >
                        > Visit Gino's F.J.G.R.R. Page at
                        > http://www.capital.net/~dicarlos/
                        >
                        > Visit The Greater Capital District Railfan Assocation At
                        http://www.trainweb.com/gcdra/
                        >
                        > Visit The Site For Existing Railroad Stations
                        > in New York State at
                        > http://ny.existingstations.com/
                        >
                      • Gino And Kelly DiCarlo
                        The trip from Fonda up to Route 30 through the woods is beautifull. There are still ties left from the cayadutta electric! the right of way is very easy to
                        Message 11 of 21 , Sep 9, 2000
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                          The trip from Fonda up to Route 30 through the woods is beautifull.
                          There are still ties left from the cayadutta electric! the right of way
                          is very easy to trace. There is also a stone whistle post right near Fonda.
                          I walked it about 15 years ago and it was great!

                          Gino

                          > From: "Randy & Lorraine Decker" <rldecker@...>
                          > Reply-To: FJGRailroad@egroups.com
                          > Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2000 20:42:39 -0400
                          > To: <FJGRailroad@egroups.com>
                          > Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Re: Single Track vs. Double Track on Electric
                          > Division
                          >
                          >
                          > NO Gino this waterfall is not the same one the one in the shots is from one
                          > of the tributaries the name is on the maps but I can't remember it?? the
                          > falls I am speaking of is quite wide and not very high and it is the
                          > Cayadutta Creek itself reminants of the old Plant are still there and I
                          > have several photo's of it in it's heyday but I have not researched it to
                          > any degree I believe Bob Bedford wrote some articles for the Leader in the
                          > past about this Hydro Plant the Cayadutta Park falls is on the stream that
                          > crosses rt. 30a by the Legion Hall one of the stone bridges is still visible
                          > just to the west of rt. 30a as you cross this poing up on the hill out of
                          > Fonda. I have yet to explore the Cayadutta Park area in any depth perhaps
                          > this would be a fun trip for some of us one of these weekends ????
                          >
                          > ----- Original Message -----
                          > From: Dicarlo, Gino <GDICARLO@...>
                          > To: <FJGRailroad@egroups.com>
                          > Cc: <GDICARLO@...>
                          > Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2000 10:58 AM
                          > Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Re: Single Track vs. Double Track on Electric
                          > Division
                          >
                          >
                          >>
                          >> That waterfall you mention Randy is beautiful! I believe it was a main
                          >> attraction at Cayadutta Park. It looks just as good now as it does in
                          >> old postcards. Does anyone know what creek that is? Someone asked me
                          >> before if it's the Cayadutta, but the Cayadutta is near the Steam line...
                          >>
                          >> Gino
                          >>
                          >> Visit Gino's F.J.G.R.R. Page at
                          >> http://www.capital.net/~dicarlos/
                          >>
                          >> Visit The Greater Capital District Railfan Assocation At
                          > http://www.trainweb.com/gcdra/
                          >>
                          >> Visit The Site For Existing Railroad Stations
                          >> in New York State at
                          >> http://ny.existingstations.com/
                          >>
                          >
                          >
                          > Visit Gino's F.J.G.R.R. Page at
                          > http://www.capital.net/~dicarlos/
                          >
                          > Visit The Greater Capital District Railfan Assocation At
                          > http://www.trainweb.com/gcdra/
                          >
                          > Visit The Site For Existing Railroad Stations
                          > in New York State at
                          > http://ny.existingstations.com/
                          >
                          >
                        • paul larner
                          The line north on Market St. paralleled the Steam line to the Steam station on West Fulton St. etc. This is a later line. The line on Miller St. was built
                          Message 12 of 21 , Sep 9, 2000
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                            The line north on Market St. paralleled the Steam line to the Steam station
                            on West Fulton St. etc. This is a later line. The line on Miller St. was
                            built during the Cayadutta time as it didn't have to cross the steam line
                            and could serve J'town. The Cayadutta as originally built didn't go into J.
                            This was just a bit later than the original construction. Would have to
                            dig some to give more details. They will be out eventually; am getting
                            there. I believe you could access the back line using the same crossovers
                            that existed when we remember between Hill and S. Main St., but the
                            interurbans went the way described to keep that portion of the route current
                            of traffic. Local traffic was on the JG&K, which maintained a separate
                            existence till shortly after the FJ&G decided to abandon local trolley
                            service. The JG&K tracks were utilized in J until the Schenectady extension
                            when the north Market St. and parallel tracks were installed.

                            Hillside Park was served only one way. If you were going from J'town to
                            Hillside Park you had to go to G'ville and get a transfer to get to HP on
                            the next southbound car.

                            The local line went across Main St. in J'town to William St. then south a
                            couple blocks.

                            The back line south of Miller was in place into the thirties, but rarely
                            used after they stopped hauling coal and freight. I'll get it all together
                            later. In the first years of operation occasionally a car of freight was
                            hauled by the trolley engine from Ft. Johnson to Starr's Mill or
                            Parkhurst's. I don't imagine this lasted too long but there are records of
                            the freight moves. Methinks the earliest freight moves were done by steam,
                            either No. 5 (the 2-6-0) or one of the Forneys. THere are a couple of
                            references. There was some friction between the city and the railroad over
                            this track, that on Market St. and South William St. This is off the top of
                            my head and it's late but the city wanted the unused back line torn up in
                            order to complete Knox Field. The railroad wanted some concessions in the
                            street track. Details to follow.

                            PKL


                            >From: "Saul Kalbfeld" <skalbfel@...>
                            >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@egroups.com
                            >To: FJGRailroad@egroups.com
                            >Subject: [FJGRailroad] Re: Single Track vs. Double Track on Electric
                            >Division
                            >Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2000 02:48:13 -0000
                            >
                            >According to the Johnstown map I have from Trolleys Down the Mohawk
                            >Valley, the main line came off Miller St. and paralled the steam div.
                            >track until Market St. where it diverged. The line on Perry St. is
                            >marked as the local line. I never realized that cars going south on
                            >Main in Gloversville could only get to the "back line" by turning at
                            >River St. and passing through the trolley yard. In ICC 1928 pix #119
                            >which is a photo of the yard office, there is a track which passes
                            >between the office and the barn which must have been the south bound
                            >main line. This track appears to be well maintained in the picture.
                            >Also, what happened to the back line south of Miller St. When was
                            >that abandoned and when did the substation near Prindle Ave go off
                            >line?
                            >
                            >Saul
                            >

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                          • Glenn Williams
                            ... Paul, A belated follow-up to your response. First off, thanks for the information on how the interurbans wended their way to and fro in Johnstown and
                            Message 13 of 21 , Nov 25, 2000
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                              --- In FJGRailroad@egroups.com, "paul larner" <pklarner@h...> wrote:
                              > The line was single track from just west of Fort Johnson to the
                              > split at Division and Main on the west end of Amsterdam.
                              > [snip]

                              Paul,

                              A belated follow-up to your response. First off, thanks for the
                              information on how the interurbans wended their way to and fro in
                              Johnstown and Gloversville; you answered the question before I asked
                              it.

                              As for the section through Fort Johnson being single track, I'm not
                              sure about that. Gino has two pictures in his web pages showing
                              double track. In his Brill-Bullets [sic] section, 125 is shown
                              eastbound near the Amsterdam line, "just passing the State Road
                              Crossing" on double track. In his Trolleys section, he has the meet
                              between 60 and 125 "near Fort Johnson," actually at the west end,
                              again on double track. [BTW, Gino, this is a Bob Bedford shot, for I
                              have a print from the original negative which Bob lent me] I've
                              gone over the 1928 ICC shots, too, but nothing is terribly definitive
                              to refer to. Before Route 5 was rebuilt and relocated in Fort
                              Johnson, it was easy to see and walk the old roadbed; it seemed to me
                              at the time that it was all double track under the high tension wire
                              towers.

                              Would any of the local Sanborn maps indicate more clearly what
                              trackage was where? Some of the real estate valuation maps in
                              Westchester were valuable to me in researching the New York,
                              Westchester & Boston back in the late 50s when I was doing real
                              estate title work.

                              Somewhere in my files I have a sketch (not to scale) of the trackage
                              from Sulphur Springs Jct. to where the Back Line split off. When I
                              locate it, I'll scan it and send it along.

                              Glenn
                            • paul larner
                              Glenn, I ll upload three attachment to the files under title Akin. I couldn t attach them here account to latge to be sent???? These should answer some of
                              Message 14 of 21 , Nov 25, 2000
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                                Glenn, I'll upload three attachment to the files under title Akin. I
                                couldn't attach them here account to latge to be sent???? These should
                                answer some of your questions. I don't believe this section was ever double
                                tracked, certainly there is no indication it was and plenty of opposition
                                from the locals.

                                PKL


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                              • Paul Charland
                                Hi Paul, e-Groups doesn t allow attachments with messages, not sure how Gino is doing it, I think he is going to the web site and sending them from there.
                                Message 15 of 21 , Nov 25, 2000
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                                  Hi Paul,

                                  e-Groups doesn't allow attachments with messages, not sure how Gino is doing it, I think he is going to the web
                                  site and sending them from there. Moderator's privilege I guess!

                                  Paul :-)

                                  paul larner wrote:

                                  > Glenn, I'll upload three attachment to the files under title Akin. I
                                  > couldn't attach them here account to latge to be sent???? These should
                                  > answer some of your questions. I don't believe this section was ever double
                                  > tracked, certainly there is no indication it was and plenty of opposition
                                  > from the locals.
                                  >
                                  > PKL
                                  >
                                  > _____________________________________________________________________________________
                                  > Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Visit Gino's F.J.G.R.R. Page at
                                  > http://www.capital.net/~dicarlos/
                                  >
                                  > Visit The Greater Capital District Railfan Assocation At http://www.trainweb.com/gcdra/
                                  >
                                  > Visit The Site For Existing Railroad Stations
                                  > in New York State at
                                  > http://ny.existingstations.com/
                                  >
                                  > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                  > Name: Akin - track plan.jpg
                                  > Akin - track plan.jpg Type: CompuPic (image/pjpeg)
                                  > Encoding: base64
                                  >
                                  > Name: Block Rules - Akin to West Main Street Jct..jpg
                                  > Block Rules - Akin to West Main Street Jct..jpg Type: CompuPic (image/pjpeg)
                                  > Encoding: base64
                                  >
                                  > Name: Block Rules - Akin and West Main St. Jct.jpg
                                  > Block Rules - Akin and West Main St. Jct.jpg Type: CompuPic (image/pjpeg)
                                  > Encoding: base64
                                • paul larner
                                  Well there was enough room to get the track plan in (also shows the track between Sulphur Springs and Johnstown) and the cover of the rules for that single
                                  Message 16 of 21 , Nov 25, 2000
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                                    Well there was enough room to get the track plan in (also shows the track
                                    between Sulphur Springs and Johnstown) and the cover of the rules for that
                                    single track section. Unfortunately the rules themselves will have to wait
                                    for more space.

                                    Paul


                                    >From: Paul Charland <p.charlie@...>
                                    >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@egroups.com
                                    >To: FJGRailroad@egroups.com
                                    >Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Re: Single Track vs. Double Track on Electric
                                    >Division
                                    >Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 21:16:13 -0500
                                    >
                                    >Hi Paul,
                                    >
                                    >e-Groups doesn't allow attachments with messages, not sure how Gino is
                                    >doing it, I think he is going to the web
                                    >site and sending them from there. Moderator's privilege I guess!
                                    >
                                    >Paul :-)
                                    >
                                    >paul larner wrote:
                                    >
                                    > > Glenn, I'll upload three attachment to the files under title Akin. I
                                    > > couldn't attach them here account to latge to be sent???? These should
                                    > > answer some of your questions. I don't believe this section was ever
                                    >double
                                    > > tracked, certainly there is no indication it was and plenty of
                                    >opposition
                                    > > from the locals.
                                    > >
                                    > > PKL
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    >_____________________________________________________________________________________
                                    > > Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download :
                                    >http://explorer.msn.com
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > Visit Gino's F.J.G.R.R. Page at
                                    > > http://www.capital.net/~dicarlos/
                                    > >
                                    > > Visit The Greater Capital District Railfan Assocation At
                                    >http://www.trainweb.com/gcdra/
                                    > >
                                    > > Visit The Site For Existing Railroad Stations
                                    > > in New York State at
                                    > > http://ny.existingstations.com/
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    >------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                    > > Name: Akin - track plan.jpg
                                    > > Akin - track plan.jpg Type: CompuPic (image/pjpeg)
                                    > > Encoding: base64
                                    > >
                                    > > Name: Block Rules
                                    >- Akin to West Main Street Jct..jpg
                                    > > Block Rules - Akin to West Main Street Jct..jpg Type: CompuPic
                                    >(image/pjpeg)
                                    > > Encoding: base64
                                    > >
                                    > > Name: Block Rules -
                                    >Akin and West Main St. Jct.jpg
                                    > > Block Rules - Akin and West Main St. Jct.jpg Type: CompuPic
                                    >(image/pjpeg)
                                    > > Encoding: base64
                                    >

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                                  • Paul Charland
                                    Hi Paul, Just have to wait and see what Gino wants to do. I think we could open a second FJ&G group to get another 20 Mb, and if so, I will move all the
                                    Message 17 of 21 , Nov 25, 2000
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                                      Hi Paul,

                                      Just have to wait and see what Gino wants to do. I think we could open a second FJ&G group
                                      to get another 20 Mb, and if so, I will move all the magazine articles over there and free
                                      up 5 Mb or so here. That way all the ICC stuff can stay in one place. Glenn has offered
                                      to open a site through his ISP, but that maxs out at 10 meg, and scanning full pages can
                                      take up a lot of space fast. If you want to get the file up tonight, I'll go in and remove
                                      a two or three page article that I just posted. That should free up about 0.7 meg.

                                      Paul

                                      paul larner wrote:

                                      > Well there was enough room to get the track plan in (also shows the track
                                      > between Sulphur Springs and Johnstown) and the cover of the rules for that
                                      > single track section. Unfortunately the rules themselves will have to wait
                                      > for more space.
                                      >
                                      > Paul
                                      >
                                      > >From: Paul Charland <p.charlie@...>
                                      > >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@egroups.com
                                      > >To: FJGRailroad@egroups.com
                                      > >Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Re: Single Track vs. Double Track on Electric
                                      > >Division
                                      > >Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 21:16:13 -0500
                                      > >
                                      > >Hi Paul,
                                      > >
                                      > >e-Groups doesn't allow attachments with messages, not sure how Gino is
                                      > >doing it, I think he is going to the web
                                      > >site and sending them from there. Moderator's privilege I guess!
                                      > >
                                      > >Paul :-)
                                      > >
                                      > >paul larner wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > > Glenn, I'll upload three attachment to the files under title Akin. I
                                      > > > couldn't attach them here account to latge to be sent???? These should
                                      > > > answer some of your questions. I don't believe this section was ever
                                      > >double
                                      > > > tracked, certainly there is no indication it was and plenty of
                                      > >opposition
                                      > > > from the locals.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > PKL
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > >_____________________________________________________________________________________
                                      > > > Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download :
                                      > >http://explorer.msn.com
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Visit Gino's F.J.G.R.R. Page at
                                      > > > http://www.capital.net/~dicarlos/
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Visit The Greater Capital District Railfan Assocation At
                                      > >http://www.trainweb.com/gcdra/
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Visit The Site For Existing Railroad Stations
                                      > > > in New York State at
                                      > > > http://ny.existingstations.com/
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > >------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                      > > > Name: Akin - track plan.jpg
                                      > > > Akin - track plan.jpg Type: CompuPic (image/pjpeg)
                                      > > > Encoding: base64
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Name: Block Rules
                                      > >- Akin to West Main Street Jct..jpg
                                      > > > Block Rules - Akin to West Main Street Jct..jpg Type: CompuPic
                                      > >(image/pjpeg)
                                      > > > Encoding: base64
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Name: Block Rules -
                                      > >Akin and West Main St. Jct.jpg
                                      > > > Block Rules - Akin and West Main St. Jct.jpg Type: CompuPic
                                      > >(image/pjpeg)
                                      > > > Encoding: base64
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > _____________________________________________________________________________________
                                      > Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Visit Gino's F.J.G.R.R. Page at
                                      > http://www.capital.net/~dicarlos/
                                      >
                                      > Visit The Greater Capital District Railfan Assocation At http://www.trainweb.com/gcdra/
                                      >
                                      > Visit The Site For Existing Railroad Stations
                                      > in New York State at
                                      > http://ny.existingstations.com/
                                    • paul larner
                                      Paul, Thank you, but that won t be necessary. It was merely some material I had squirrelled away that would add insight one of the several questions we have
                                      Message 18 of 21 , Nov 25, 2000
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Paul, Thank you, but that won't be necessary. It was merely some material
                                        I had squirrelled away that would add insight one of the several questions
                                        we have about the line. What was able to be received will answer the
                                        question. There will always be a later day, besides if too much goes in
                                        there won't be a need for the book. (Still a ways off, time never enough
                                        time)

                                        PKL


                                        >From: Paul Charland <p.charlie@...>
                                        >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@egroups.com
                                        >To: FJGRailroad@egroups.com
                                        >Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Re: Single Track vs. Double Track on Electric
                                        >Division
                                        >Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 22:15:40 -0500
                                        >
                                        >Hi Paul,
                                        >
                                        >Just have to wait and see what Gino wants to do. I think we could open a
                                        >second FJ&G group
                                        >to get another 20 Mb, and if so, I will move all the magazine articles over
                                        >there and free
                                        >up 5 Mb or so here. That way all the ICC stuff can stay in one place.
                                        >Glenn has offered
                                        >to open a site through his ISP, but that maxs out at 10 meg, and scanning
                                        >full pages can
                                        >take up a lot of space fast. If you want to get the file up tonight, I'll
                                        >go in and remove
                                        >a two or three page article that I just posted. That should free up about
                                        >0.7 meg.
                                        >
                                        >Paul
                                        >
                                        >paul larner wrote:
                                        >
                                        > > Well there was enough room to get the track plan in (also shows the
                                        >track
                                        > > between Sulphur Springs and Johnstown) and the cover of the rules for
                                        >that
                                        > > single track section. Unfortunately the rules themselves will have to
                                        >wait
                                        > > for more space.
                                        > >
                                        > > Paul
                                        > >
                                        > > >From: Paul Charland <p.charlie@...>
                                        > > >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@egroups.com
                                        > > >To: FJGRailroad@egroups.com
                                        > > >Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Re: Single Track vs. Double Track on
                                        >Electric
                                        > > >Division
                                        > > >Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 21:16:13 -0500
                                        > > >
                                        > > >Hi Paul,
                                        > > >
                                        > > >e-Groups doesn't allow attachments with messages, not sure how Gino is
                                        > > >doing it, I think he is going to the web
                                        > > >site and sending them from there. Moderator's privilege I guess!
                                        > > >
                                        > > >Paul :-)
                                        > > >
                                        > > >paul larner wrote:
                                        > > >
                                        > > > > Glenn, I'll upload three attachment to the files under title Akin.
                                        >I
                                        > > > > couldn't attach them here account to latge to be sent???? These
                                        >should
                                        > > > > answer some of your questions. I don't believe this section was
                                        >ever
                                        > > >double
                                        > > > > tracked, certainly there is no indication it was and plenty of
                                        > > >opposition
                                        > > > > from the locals.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > PKL
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > >
                                        > >_____________________________________________________________________________________
                                        > > > > Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download :
                                        > > >http://explorer.msn.com
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Visit Gino's F.J.G.R.R. Page at
                                        > > > > http://www.capital.net/~dicarlos/
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Visit The Greater Capital District Railfan Assocation At
                                        > > >http://www.trainweb.com/gcdra/
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Visit The Site For Existing Railroad Stations
                                        > > > > in New York State at
                                        > > > > http://ny.existingstations.com/
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > >
                                        > >------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                        > > > > Name: Akin - track plan.jpg
                                        > > > > Akin - track plan.jpg Type: CompuPic (image/pjpeg)
                                        > > > > Encoding: base64
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Name: Block
                                        >Rules
                                        > > >- Akin to West Main Street Jct..jpg
                                        > > > > Block Rules - Akin to West Main Street Jct..jpg Type: CompuPic
                                        > > >(image/pjpeg)
                                        > > > > Encoding: base64
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Name: Block Rules
                                        >-
                                        > > >Akin and West Main St. Jct.jpg
                                        > > > > Block Rules - Akin and West Main St. Jct.jpg Type: CompuPic
                                        > > >(image/pjpeg)
                                        > > > > Encoding: base64
                                        > > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        >_____________________________________________________________________________________
                                        > > Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download :
                                        >http://explorer.msn.com
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > Visit Gino's F.J.G.R.R. Page at
                                        > > http://www.capital.net/~dicarlos/
                                        > >
                                        > > Visit The Greater Capital District Railfan Assocation At
                                        >http://www.trainweb.com/gcdra/
                                        > >
                                        > > Visit The Site For Existing Railroad Stations
                                        > > in New York State at
                                        > > http://ny.existingstations.com/
                                        >

                                        _____________________________________________________________________________________
                                        Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
                                      • Paul Charland
                                        Hi Paul, Starting to think there is enough material for The FJ&G on CD ! Would be nice as a back up someday. Paul
                                        Message 19 of 21 , Nov 25, 2000
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Hi Paul,

                                          Starting to think there is enough material for 'The FJ&G on CD'! Would be nice as a back up
                                          someday.

                                          Paul

                                          paul larner wrote:

                                          > Paul, Thank you, but that won't be necessary. It was merely some material
                                          > I had squirrelled away that would add insight one of the several questions
                                          > we have about the line. What was able to be received will answer the
                                          > question. There will always be a later day, besides if too much goes in
                                          > there won't be a need for the book. (Still a ways off, time never enough
                                          > time)
                                          >
                                          > PKL
                                          >
                                          > >From: Paul Charland <p.charlie@...>
                                          > >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@egroups.com
                                          > >To: FJGRailroad@egroups.com
                                          > >Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Re: Single Track vs. Double Track on Electric
                                          > >Division
                                          > >Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 22:15:40 -0500
                                          > >
                                          > >Hi Paul,
                                          > >
                                          > >Just have to wait and see what Gino wants to do. I think we could open a
                                          > >second FJ&G group
                                          > >to get another 20 Mb, and if so, I will move all the magazine articles over
                                          > >there and free
                                          > >up 5 Mb or so here. That way all the ICC stuff can stay in one place.
                                          > >Glenn has offered
                                          > >to open a site through his ISP, but that maxs out at 10 meg, and scanning
                                          > >full pages can
                                          > >take up a lot of space fast. If you want to get the file up tonight, I'll
                                          > >go in and remove
                                          > >a two or three page article that I just posted. That should free up about
                                          > >0.7 meg.
                                          > >
                                          > >Paul
                                          > >
                                          > >paul larner wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > > > Well there was enough room to get the track plan in (also shows the
                                          > >track
                                          > > > between Sulphur Springs and Johnstown) and the cover of the rules for
                                          > >that
                                          > > > single track section. Unfortunately the rules themselves will have to
                                          > >wait
                                          > > > for more space.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Paul
                                          > > >
                                          > > > >From: Paul Charland <p.charlie@...>
                                          > > > >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@egroups.com
                                          > > > >To: FJGRailroad@egroups.com
                                          > > > >Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Re: Single Track vs. Double Track on
                                          > >Electric
                                          > > > >Division
                                          > > > >Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 21:16:13 -0500
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >Hi Paul,
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >e-Groups doesn't allow attachments with messages, not sure how Gino is
                                          > > > >doing it, I think he is going to the web
                                          > > > >site and sending them from there. Moderator's privilege I guess!
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >Paul :-)
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >paul larner wrote:
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > > Glenn, I'll upload three attachment to the files under title Akin.
                                          > >I
                                          > > > > > couldn't attach them here account to latge to be sent???? These
                                          > >should
                                          > > > > > answer some of your questions. I don't believe this section was
                                          > >ever
                                          > > > >double
                                          > > > > > tracked, certainly there is no indication it was and plenty of
                                          > > > >opposition
                                          > > > > > from the locals.
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > PKL
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >_____________________________________________________________________________________
                                          > > > > > Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download :
                                          > > > >http://explorer.msn.com
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > Visit Gino's F.J.G.R.R. Page at
                                          > > > > > http://www.capital.net/~dicarlos/
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > Visit The Greater Capital District Railfan Assocation At
                                          > > > >http://www.trainweb.com/gcdra/
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > Visit The Site For Existing Railroad Stations
                                          > > > > > in New York State at
                                          > > > > > http://ny.existingstations.com/
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                          > > > > > Name: Akin - track plan.jpg
                                          > > > > > Akin - track plan.jpg Type: CompuPic (image/pjpeg)
                                          > > > > > Encoding: base64
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > Name: Block
                                          > >Rules
                                          > > > >- Akin to West Main Street Jct..jpg
                                          > > > > > Block Rules - Akin to West Main Street Jct..jpg Type: CompuPic
                                          > > > >(image/pjpeg)
                                          > > > > > Encoding: base64
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > Name: Block Rules
                                          > >-
                                          > > > >Akin and West Main St. Jct.jpg
                                          > > > > > Block Rules - Akin and West Main St. Jct.jpg Type: CompuPic
                                          > > > >(image/pjpeg)
                                          > > > > > Encoding: base64
                                          > > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > >_____________________________________________________________________________________
                                          > > > Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download :
                                          > >http://explorer.msn.com
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Visit Gino's F.J.G.R.R. Page at
                                          > > > http://www.capital.net/~dicarlos/
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Visit The Greater Capital District Railfan Assocation At
                                          > >http://www.trainweb.com/gcdra/
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Visit The Site For Existing Railroad Stations
                                          > > > in New York State at
                                          > > > http://ny.existingstations.com/
                                          > >
                                          >
                                          > _____________________________________________________________________________________
                                          > Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Visit Gino's F.J.G.R.R. Page at
                                          > http://www.capital.net/~dicarlos/
                                          >
                                          > Visit The Greater Capital District Railfan Assocation At http://www.trainweb.com/gcdra/
                                          >
                                          > Visit The Site For Existing Railroad Stations
                                          > in New York State at
                                          > http://ny.existingstations.com/
                                        • Glenn Williams
                                          ... Paul, Those track maps are truly fascinating. The detailed one for Akin appears to have been done at the time of construction, showing the then-current
                                          Message 20 of 21 , Nov 26, 2000
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            --- In FJGRailroad@egroups.com, "paul larner" <pklarner@h...> wrote:
                                            > Glenn, I'll upload three attachment to the files under title Akin.

                                            > I couldn't attach them here account to latge to be sent???? These
                                            > should answer some of your questions. I don't believe this section
                                            > was ever double tracked, certainly there is no indication it was
                                            > and plenty of opposition from the locals.
                                            >
                                            > PKL
                                            >

                                            Paul,

                                            Those track maps are truly fascinating.

                                            The detailed one for Akin appears to have been done at the time of
                                            construction, showing the then-current Mohawk Turnpike (Route 5) and
                                            the proposed relocation. I noted that J. Ledlie Hees was shown on
                                            one of the plots, along with a member of the Akin family. The
                                            smaller Akin map, showing from the Tribes Hill trestle to Akin,
                                            answered several questions about trackage around the power plant.

                                            The Sulphur Springs Jct map also answered questions over how Fonda
                                            cars made their way to and fro. It's not terribly obvious, but just
                                            north of the junction is a crossover from the eastbound (southbound)
                                            main to the westbound (northbound) main. There may have been
                                            another, from westbound to eastbound, but I wonder if there would
                                            have been a need for that one other than emergencies.

                                            Again, thanks for taking the time and effort to clear things up for
                                            me. I appreciate the effort.

                                            Glenn
                                          • paul larner
                                            I ll put up the rules to finish out that folder tonight. PKL ... _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more
                                            Message 21 of 21 , Nov 26, 2000
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              I'll put up the rules to finish out that folder tonight.

                                              PKL


                                              >From: "Glenn Williams" <103424.2304@...>
                                              >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@egroups.com
                                              >To: FJGRailroad@egroups.com
                                              >Subject: [FJGRailroad] Re: Single Track vs. Double Track on Electric
                                              >Division
                                              >Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 23:45:55 -0000
                                              >
                                              >--- In FJGRailroad@egroups.com, "paul larner" <pklarner@h...> wrote:
                                              > > Glenn, I'll upload three attachment to the files under title Akin.
                                              >
                                              > > I couldn't attach them here account to latge to be sent???? These
                                              > > should answer some of your questions. I don't believe this section
                                              > > was ever double tracked, certainly there is no indication it was
                                              > > and plenty of opposition from the locals.
                                              > >
                                              > > PKL
                                              > >
                                              >
                                              >Paul,
                                              >
                                              >Those track maps are truly fascinating.
                                              >
                                              >The detailed one for Akin appears to have been done at the time of
                                              >construction, showing the then-current Mohawk Turnpike (Route 5) and
                                              >the proposed relocation. I noted that J. Ledlie Hees was shown on
                                              >one of the plots, along with a member of the Akin family. The
                                              >smaller Akin map, showing from the Tribes Hill trestle to Akin,
                                              >answered several questions about trackage around the power plant.
                                              >
                                              >The Sulphur Springs Jct map also answered questions over how Fonda
                                              >cars made their way to and fro. It's not terribly obvious, but just
                                              >north of the junction is a crossover from the eastbound (southbound)
                                              >main to the westbound (northbound) main. There may have been
                                              >another, from westbound to eastbound, but I wonder if there would
                                              >have been a need for that one other than emergencies.
                                              >
                                              >Again, thanks for taking the time and effort to clear things up for
                                              >me. I appreciate the effort.
                                              >
                                              > Glenn
                                              >

                                              _____________________________________________________________________________________
                                              Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
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