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Combines 21 and 22

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  • etozorak
    When were these combines built by the Delaware Lackawanna & Western (DLW), and when were they purchased by the FJ&G?
    Message 1 of 9 , Feb 2, 2014
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      When were these combines built by the Delaware Lackawanna & Western (DLW), and when were they purchased by the FJ&G?
    • Paul Larner
      No. 21 appears to be a product of Jackson and Sharp built in the early to mid 1890 s for DL&W. Take a look in Taber s DL&W 20th Century Vol. 2, p. 658, top
      Message 2 of 9 , Feb 2, 2014
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        No. 21 appears to be a product of Jackson and Sharp built in the early to mid 1890's for DL&W.  Take a look in Taber's "DL&W 20th Century" Vol. 2, p. 658, top photo, for a similar though not identical car.  Taber is not very detailed in his work on the coaches before 1900 and I have no better source for DL&W info.   With regard to the other DL&W cars also purchased in 1916 from the DL&W, coaches 26 - 29, their design matches 21.  The company bought a train set.  See page 673, same source for a photo of these coaches and more info.  Note car details and descriptions in the car dimension charts for comparison with the FJ&G data sheets.
         
        The RPO service between Northville and Fonda was discontinued May 21, 1917, making the mail/express/baggage cars obsolete on the steam division, hence the need for another combine to supplement the 8 and 22.  I am unable to explain the reasoning for the number sequence of the passenger equipment.
         
        No. 22 was purchased new by the FJ&G in 1900 from Jackson and Sharp.  It has a later style J&S hand rails, as did the coaches 16 and 17.
         
        PKL
         

        To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
        From: etozorak@...
        Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2014 16:30:28 -0800
        Subject: [FJGRailroad] Combines 21 and 22

         
        When were these combines built by the Delaware Lackawanna & Western (DLW), and when were they purchased by the FJ&G?
      • etozorak
        Thanks for that information Paul. Does anyone have photos of these cars in service? I ve only seen photos of them parked.
        Message 3 of 9 , Feb 10, 2014
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          Thanks for that information Paul.


          Does anyone have photos of these cars in service?  I've only seen photos of them parked.

        • Paul Larner
          A few images of the combines when is service have been placed in a photo album. PKL To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com From: etozorak@yahoo.com Date: Mon, 10 Feb
          Message 4 of 9 , Feb 10, 2014
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            A few images of the combines when is service have been placed in a photo album. 
             
            PKL
             

            To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
            From: etozorak@...
            Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2014 15:09:46 -0800
            Subject: RE: [FJGRailroad] Combines 21 and 22

             
            Thanks for that information Paul.



            Does anyone have photos of these cars in service?  I've only seen photos of them parked.


          • etozorak
            Thank you for adding those, Paul. It s interesting to see that it wasn t too uncommon for both cars to be used together. I see in the color photo that the
            Message 5 of 9 , Feb 11, 2014
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              Thank you for adding those, Paul.  It's interesting to see that it wasn't too uncommon for both cars to be used together.

              I see in the color photo that the cars are painted a mixture of olive-brown with burgundy.  Would this be representative of their scheme throughout their career on the FJ&G, or did they ever have colors closer to DL&W?
            • Paul Larner
              If there a rule existed for using the cars, it was one at a time; 21 was the summer coach, no stove, and 22 the winter coach. Ridership on the regular
              Message 6 of 9 , Feb 11, 2014
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                If there a rule existed for using the cars, it was one at a time;  21 was the "summer" coach, no stove, and 22 the "winter" coach.  Ridership on the regular trains never, so far as I know, required more than the capacity of one car.  The images with both cars being hauled were in relation to the several fan trips and trips sponsored by local civic organizations.  The first following the war was in October 1946 and later starting in 1950 to the end in the summer of 1956, one or two trips were run a year.  In the earliest years of the Broadalbin line a standard train consisted of locomotive, combine and coach.
                 
                The color of the cars was the FJ&G standard for all their interurban trolleys (until the introduction of the orange, hemlock and black scheme) and steam division passenger equipment was Wagner brown.  The FJ&G first applied the color to two refurbished coaches in November of 1898.  It's appearance was the color of a Hershey bar.  This image and a few others today properly reflect the tone.   My best recollection of them is of playing in them while they were stored in the big coal house so; I have no recollection of seeing them in sun light and if I did their color was background to my focus.  I have been unable to learn when the reddish color first was applied to the roofs.
                 

                A HANDSOME TRAIN. - Being Run on the F., J. & G. Broadalbin Division.


                The management of the F. J. & G. railroad has placed on the Broadalbin, Gloversville and Fonda division of the road the finest train ever run over the local railroad, and it is expected that it will continue in daily service.  The train is drawn by engine No. 3, which has recently been painted in the new colors of silver and black, and the cars which compose it are No. 22 and No. 16.  The latter is the new standard passenger coach built last year by Jackson and Sharpe Company of Wilmington , Delaware , and the former is the new combination baggage and smoking car built this year by the same company.  Both coaches are of the standard color of Wagner Brown, and have comfortable high-backed seats, those of the smoking car being finished in leather and both are fitted for steam heat.  The train is a credit to the road and the management and is a splendid example of the progressive spirit of the company’s officials. ( Gloversville Daily Leader and Amsterdam Daily Democrat 050800)


                PKL

                To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                From: etozorak@...
                Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 11:14:28 -0800
                Subject: RE: [FJGRailroad] Combines 21 and 22

                 
                Thank you for adding those, Paul.  It's interesting to see that it wasn't too uncommon for both cars to be used together.

                I see in the color photo that the cars are painted a mixture of olive-brown with burgundy.  Would this be representative of their scheme throughout their career on the FJ&G, or did they ever have colors closer to DL&W?
              • etozorak
                Thank you for your detailed answers, Paul. Two more questions I have, since I am currently modeling Combine 21: 1) Did either coach have any form of lighting
                Message 7 of 9 , Mar 6 2:37 PM
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                  Thank you for your detailed answers, Paul.  Two more questions I have, since I am currently modeling Combine 21:

                  1) Did either coach have any form of lighting inside?  I see no battery boxes on the bottom of either coach.

                  2) From the photographs, it looks like #21 has no windows at either end of the car, but #22 does have windows on the passenger end.  Is this correct to your knowledge?
                • Paul Larner
                  Nick, My reference regarding lighting for the coaches is the company s spec sheets for them. Combine No. 21 had seven kerosene lamps, while Combine No. 22 had
                  Message 8 of 9 , Mar 6 8:02 PM
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                    Nick,
                     
                    My reference regarding lighting for the coaches is the company's spec sheets for them.  Combine No. 21 had seven kerosene lamps, while Combine No. 22 had six.  No. 21 could seat 38 and No. 22 seated 34. 
                     
                    I share your understanding of the end windows on these cars, at least from the photographs in my collection.
                     
                    PKL
                     

                    To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                    From: etozorak@...
                    Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2014 14:37:29 -0800
                    Subject: RE: [FJGRailroad] Combines 21 and 22

                     
                    Thank you for your detailed answers, Paul.  Two more questions I have, since I am currently modeling Combine 21:

                    1) Did either coach have any form of lighting inside?  I see no battery boxes on the bottom of either coach.

                    2) From the photographs, it looks like #21 has no windows at either end of the car, but #22 does have windows on the passenger end.  Is this correct to your knowledge?
                  • Gordon Davis
                    Of interest. I once thought of using one of the combines as a bachelor pad and inquired as to their price. $75 (?) was quoted, however I would have to truck
                    Message 9 of 9 , Mar 7 7:18 AM
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                      Of interest.  I once thought of using one of the combines as a bachelor pad and inquired as to their price.  $75 (?) was quoted, however I would have to truck it from Gloversville to my team track on the Lackawanna's Richfield Springs branch.
                      Obviously, that didn't happen.
                      Gordon
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2014 5:37 PM
                      Subject: RE: [FJGRailroad] Combines 21 and 22

                       

                      Thank you for your detailed answers, Paul.  Two more questions I have, since I am currently modeling Combine 21:

                      1) Did either coach have any form of lighting inside?  I see no battery boxes on the bottom of either coach.

                      2) From the photographs, it looks like #21 has no windows at either end of the car, but #22 does have windows on the passenger end.  Is this correct to your knowledge?

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