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Re: [FJGRailroad] Amsterdam Enginehouse?

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  • Gino's RailPage
    Look at the description for the group Jerry! It includes the ACN! Gino
    Message 1 of 24 , Feb 11 5:43 AM
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      Look at the description for the group Jerry! It includes the ACN!

      Gino

      Jerry Snyder <handyman756@...> wrote:

      >Paul,
      >I have not been able to find any record in text, map, or newspaper that mentions an enginhouse anywhere in Amsterdam.  I am 99.9% certain that there was not one at the Kelloggs and Miller plant, but have not had time to go through all of my old K&M photos yet.  I know tracks went through the incoming seed scale storage warehouse, through a covered section of the complex between buildings, and through the outgoing oil scale building. I will forward you the relevant photos offline (or I can put up a gallary so others can also see - what say the group since off topic?). I will be at History and Archives in Fonda today and see what else I can unearth for you.
      >Jerry 
      >
      >--- On Thu, 2/10/11, Paul Charland <p.charlie@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      >From: Paul Charland <p.charlie@...>
      >Subject: [FJGRailroad] Amsterdam Enginehouse?
      >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
      >Date: Thursday, February 10, 2011, 8:50 AM
      >
      >

      >
      >
      >
      >Hi All,
      >
      >Slightly off topic here but I'll claim if there was an NYC enginehouse
      >it might have been close to the FJ&G electric route.
      >
      >As you may be aware I'm working on a Microsoft Train Sim route, trying
      >to reproduce the Kellogg Branch. Gino, Paul Larner and Jerry Snyder
      >have been helping me off list but I've run into something that I haven't
      >found an answer for, and NYC enginehouse. Paul remembers a building up
      >near the linseed oil plant he thinks was an enginehouse. Gino sent
      >along Sanborn Insurance maps that do not show anything in that area that
      >might have been an enginehouse, or even a track that might have been or
      >become and enginehouse, Gino sent several years covering the late 1800s
      >to 1950.
      >
      >Jerry sent along a photo showing an 0-8-0 sitting in front of a water
      >column near Morris Street, so we know they could have taken on water in
      >Amsterdam. Haven't found anything that would make you think they had a
      >coaling facility in Amsterdam but the Sanborn maps end at Elk Street, so
      >there's still a few blocks to the west end of the yard and the yard
      >itself that might have been the location of an enginehouse or coaling
      >facility... or... maybe the train originated somewhere east of Amsterdam
      >and the train ran on the mainline to Amsterdam, switched Amsterdam
      >through the day, then returned on the mainline to where they started the
      >day (that would be Selkirk today but not sure Selkirk was open back in
      >the late 1930s).
      >
      >Anyway, if anyone knows one way or the other if there was an enginehouse
      >in Amsterdam or if there was some place they could take on coal there,
      >or even if there was no enginehouse or coal facilities used by the NYC
      >would be nice to here from you.
      >
      >Paul :-)
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
    • Paul Larner
      Yes, Jerry. Please put them up. PKL To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com From: fjgrailroad@gmail.com Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 08:43:20 -0500 Subject: Re:
      Message 2 of 24 , Feb 11 6:51 AM
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        Yes, Jerry.  Please put them up.
         
        PKL
         

        To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
        From: fjgrailroad@...
        Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 08:43:20 -0500
        Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Amsterdam Enginehouse?

         
        Look at the description for the group Jerry! It includes the ACN!

        Gino

        Jerry Snyder <handyman756@...> wrote:

        >Paul,
        >I have not been able to find any record in text, map, or newspaper that mentions an enginhouse anywhere in Amsterdam.  I am 99.9% certain that there was not one at the Kelloggs and Miller plant, but have not had time to go through all of my old K&M photos yet.  I know tracks went through the incoming seed scale storage warehouse, through a covered section of the complex between buildings, and through the outgoing oil scale building. I will forward you the relevant photos offline (or I can put up a gallary so others can also see - what say the group since off topic?). I will be at History and Archives in Fonda today and see what else I can unearth for you.
        >Jerry 
        >
        >--- On Thu, 2/10/11, Paul Charland <p.charlie@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        >From: Paul Charland <p.charlie@...>
        >Subject: [FJGRailroad] Amsterdam Enginehouse?
        >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
        >Date: Thursday, February 10, 2011, 8:50 AM
        >
        >

        >
        >
        >
        >Hi All,
        >
        >Slightly off topic here but I'll claim if there was an NYC enginehouse
        >it might have been close to the FJ&G electric route.
        >
        >As you may be aware I'm working on a Microsoft Train Sim route, trying
        >to reproduce the Kellogg Branch. Gino, Paul Larner and Jerry Snyder
        >have been helping me off list but I've run into something that I haven't
        >found an answer for, and NYC enginehouse. Paul remembers a building up
        >near the linseed oil plant he thinks was an enginehouse. Gino sent
        >along Sanborn Insurance maps that do not show anything in that area that
        >might have been an enginehouse, or even a track that might have been or
        >become and enginehouse, Gino sent several years covering the late 1800s
        >to 1950.
        >
        >Jerry sent along a photo showing an 0-8-0 sitting in front of a water
        >column near Morris Street, so we know they could have taken on water in
        >Amsterdam. Haven't found anything that would make you think they had a
        >coaling facility in Amsterdam but the Sanborn maps end at Elk Street, so
        >there's still a few blocks to the west end of the yard and the yard
        >itself that might have been the location of an enginehouse or coaling
        >facility... or... maybe the train originated somewhere east of Amsterdam
        >and the train ran on the mainline to Amsterdam, switched Amsterdam
        >through the day, then returned on the mainline to where they started the
        >day (that would be Selkirk today but not sure Selkirk was open back in
        >the late 1930s).
        >
        >Anyway, if anyone knows one way or the other if there was an enginehouse
        >in Amsterdam or if there was some place they could take on coal there,
        >or even if there was no enginehouse or coal facilities used by the NYC
        >would be nice to here from you.
        >
        >Paul :-)
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • Gordon Davis
        Not an engine house question. When the Central displaced its West Side street running with elevated track they dispersed their shrouded Shays. Two of them
        Message 3 of 24 , Feb 11 8:15 AM
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          Not an engine house question.
          When the Central displaced its West Side street running with elevated track they dispersed their shrouded Shays.  Two of them went to Auburn.  Perchance did any get a trial on Amsterdam's hill line?
          Gordon
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >

        • Jerry Snyder
          Gentlemen, I just posted an album of photos of the ACN (Kellogg Branch) in the area around the Kellogg and Miller Linseed Oil Mill.  Most of these photos are
          Message 4 of 24 , Feb 12 7:34 PM
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            Gentlemen,
            I just posted an album of photos of the ACN (Kellogg Branch) in the area around the Kellogg and Miller Linseed Oil Mill.  Most of these photos are from 1923 and were taken for a 100 year anniversary booklet put out by K&M.  I was able to borrow and scan the original retouched photos used in the booklet several years ago from the current owner of the property.  The ACN started out as a private line built by K&M to support their mill operation so it's only fitting that the album start out with their photos.  If anyone is interested in a bit more of the mill's history, check out http://www.lostlandmarks.org/kellog.html.
            Jerry
             
             
             
            --- On Fri, 2/11/11, Paul Larner <pklarner@...> wrote:

            From: Paul Larner <pklarner@...>
            Subject: RE: [FJGRailroad] Amsterdam Enginehouse?
            To: "FJGRailroad" <fjgrailroad@yahoogroups.com>
            Date: Friday, February 11, 2011, 9:51 AM

             
            Yes, Jerry.  Please put them up.
             
            PKL
             

            To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
            From: fjgrailroad@...
            Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 08:43:20 -0500
            Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Amsterdam Enginehouse?

             
            Look at the description for the group Jerry! It includes the ACN!

            Gino

            Jerry Snyder <handyman756@...> wrote:

            >Paul,
            >I have not been able to find any record in text, map, or newspaper that mentions an enginhouse anywhere in Amsterdam.  I am 99.9% certain that there was not one at the Kelloggs and Miller plant, but have not had time to go through all of my old K&M photos yet.  I know tracks went through the incoming seed scale storage warehouse, through a covered section of the complex between buildings, and through the outgoing oil scale building. I will forward you the relevant photos offline (or I can put up a gallary so others can also see - what say the group since off topic?). I will be at History and Archives in Fonda today and see what else I can unearth for you.
            >Jerry 
            >
            >--- On Thu, 2/10/11, Paul Charland <p.charlie@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            >From: Paul Charland <p.charlie@...>
            >Subject: [FJGRailroad] Amsterdam Enginehouse?
            >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
            >Date: Thursday, February 10, 2011, 8:50 AM
            >
            >

            >
            >
            >
            >Hi All,
            >
            >Slightly off topic here but I'll claim if there was an NYC enginehouse
            >it might have been close to the FJ&G electric route.
            >
            >As you may be aware I'm working on a Microsoft Train Sim route, trying
            >to reproduce the Kellogg Branch. Gino, Paul Larner and Jerry Snyder
            >have been helping me off list but I've run into something that I haven't
            >found an answer for, and NYC enginehouse. Paul remembers a building up
            >near the linseed oil plant he thinks was an enginehouse. Gino sent
            >along Sanborn Insurance maps that do not show anything in that area that
            >might have been an enginehouse, or even a track that might have been or
            >become and enginehouse, Gino sent several years covering the late 1800s
            >to 1950.
            >
            >Jerry sent along a photo showing an 0-8-0 sitting in front of a water
            >column near Morris Street, so we know they could have taken on water in
            >Amsterdam. Haven't found anything that would make you think they had a
            >coaling facility in Amsterdam but the Sanborn maps end at Elk Street, so
            >there's still a few blocks to the west end of the yard and the yard
            >itself that might have been the location of an enginehouse or coaling
            >facility... or... maybe the train originated somewhere east of Amsterdam
            >and the train ran on the mainline to Amsterdam, switched Amsterdam
            >through the day, then returned on the mainline to where they started the
            >day (that would be Selkirk today but not sure Selkirk was open back in
            >the late 1930s).
            >
            >Anyway, if anyone knows one way or the other if there was an enginehouse
            >in Amsterdam or if there was some place they could take on coal there,
            >or even if there was no enginehouse or coal facilities used by the NYC
            >would be nice to here from you.
            >
            >Paul :-)
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >

          • handyman756
            Paul, I spent a good part of Friday digging through the archives in Fonda. If there was ever an engine house in Amsterdam (at least within the city limits) it
            Message 5 of 24 , Feb 13 10:19 AM
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              Paul,
              I spent a good part of Friday digging through the archives in Fonda. If there was ever an engine house in Amsterdam (at least within the city limits) it isn't reflected on any of the maps (unless it was pre-1895) or listed in any of the city directories. Some of the later maps extend all the way to the eastern city limits, several blocks beyond Elk Street, but not as far as the yard and AC&N connection to the NYC. A review of the 1923 Kelloggs & Miller photos and maps does not show any structures other than the scale houses with tracks running into them. As far as coaling facilities, there were several commercial coal houses located along the length of the NYC in the city but no indication of a railroad coaling facility.
              Jerry

              --- In FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com, Jerry Snyder <handyman756@...> wrote:
              >
              > Paul,
              > I have not been able to find any record in text, map, or newspaper that mentions an enginhouse anywhere in Amsterdam.  I am 99.9% certain that there was not one at the Kelloggs and Miller plant, but have not had time to go through all of my old K&M photos yet.  I know tracks went through the incoming seed scale storage warehouse, through a covered section of the complex between buildings, and through the outgoing oil scale building. I will forward you the relevant photos offline (or I can put up a gallary so others can also see - what say the group since off topic?). I will be at History and Archives in Fonda today and see what else I can unearth for you.
              > Jerry 
              >
              > --- On Thu, 2/10/11, Paul Charland <p.charlie@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > From: Paul Charland <p.charlie@...>
              > Subject: [FJGRailroad] Amsterdam Enginehouse?
              > To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
              > Date: Thursday, February 10, 2011, 8:50 AM
              >
              >
              >  
              >
              >
              >
              > Hi All,
              >
              > Slightly off topic here but I'll claim if there was an NYC enginehouse
              > it might have been close to the FJ&G electric route.
              >
              > As you may be aware I'm working on a Microsoft Train Sim route, trying
              > to reproduce the Kellogg Branch. Gino, Paul Larner and Jerry Snyder
              > have been helping me off list but I've run into something that I haven't
              > found an answer for, and NYC enginehouse. Paul remembers a building up
              > near the linseed oil plant he thinks was an enginehouse. Gino sent
              > along Sanborn Insurance maps that do not show anything in that area that
              > might have been an enginehouse, or even a track that might have been or
              > become and enginehouse, Gino sent several years covering the late 1800s
              > to 1950.
              >
              > Jerry sent along a photo showing an 0-8-0 sitting in front of a water
              > column near Morris Street, so we know they could have taken on water in
              > Amsterdam. Haven't found anything that would make you think they had a
              > coaling facility in Amsterdam but the Sanborn maps end at Elk Street, so
              > there's still a few blocks to the west end of the yard and the yard
              > itself that might have been the location of an enginehouse or coaling
              > facility... or... maybe the train originated somewhere east of Amsterdam
              > and the train ran on the mainline to Amsterdam, switched Amsterdam
              > through the day, then returned on the mainline to where they started the
              > day (that would be Selkirk today but not sure Selkirk was open back in
              > the late 1930s).
              >
              > Anyway, if anyone knows one way or the other if there was an enginehouse
              > in Amsterdam or if there was some place they could take on coal there,
              > or even if there was no enginehouse or coal facilities used by the NYC
              > would be nice to here from you.
              >
              > Paul :-)
              >
            • Jerry Snyder
              Paul, Based on the height of the retaining wall I would say that the push car is probably on the loading track, east of the closed area between the seedhouse
              Message 6 of 24 , Feb 13 10:38 AM
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                Paul,
                Based on the height of the retaining wall I would say that the push car is probably on the loading track, east of the closed area between the seedhouse and Building 1.  The last time I was poking around at K&M a couple years ago there was still a push car sitting there with a small horizontal tank mounted on it - may be the same one!
                Jerry


              • Paul Charland
                Hi Jerry, First off, thanks for uploading the ACN photos, some I ve seen before, many not. They will come in handy when I start modeling the mill in a week or
                Message 7 of 24 , Feb 13 11:07 AM
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                  Hi Jerry,

                  First off, thanks for uploading the ACN photos, some I've seen before,
                  many not. They will come in handy when I start modeling the mill in a
                  week or so.

                  I did have a question about one photo that said the last linseed oil was
                  shipped out in 1946... I was under the impression they stopped
                  production in 1938 and in the 40s the mill became an oil distribution
                  facility... oil, as in motor oil or maybe gasoline. Which date would be
                  correct?

                  The lack of a coaling facility is getting to be less of a surprise,
                  there were a few "coaling facilities" on the CN that were merely an OCS
                  hopper on a siding that they pulled up beside and coal was shoved from
                  the hopper to the tender... maybe that's the case here.

                  Paul :-)

                  On 13/02/2011 1:19 PM, handyman756 wrote:
                  > Paul, I spent a good part of Friday digging through the archives in
                  > Fonda. If there was ever an engine house in Amsterdam (at least
                  > within the city limits) it isn't reflected on any of the maps (unless
                  > it was pre-1895) or listed in any of the city directories. Some of
                  > the later maps extend all the way to the eastern city limits, several
                  > blocks beyond Elk Street, but not as far as the yard and AC&N
                  > connection to the NYC. A review of the 1923 Kelloggs& Miller photos
                  > and maps does not show any structures other than the scale houses
                  > with tracks running into them. As far as coaling facilities, there
                  > were several commercial coal houses located along the length of the
                  > NYC in the city but no indication of a railroad coaling facility.
                  > Jerry
                • Jerry Snyder
                  Hi Paul, Kelloggs and Miller sold out the business in Amsterdam, along with their other facilities around the country, to Bisbee Linseed Oil in 1937.  Bisbee
                  Message 8 of 24 , Feb 13 4:53 PM
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                    Hi Paul,
                    Kelloggs and Miller sold out the business in Amsterdam, along with their other facilities around the country, to Bisbee Linseed Oil in 1937.  Bisbee operated the facility until 1948, but during the last two years used it only as a receiving and shipping mill for their other plants in Philadelphia and Chicago Heights as supplies of flaxseed were insufficient at an economical price to allow oil production here.  The last oil produced in Amsterdam shipped out in 1946. (If anyone ever comes acros a Bisbee gallon can with an angry bee on the label, please let me know.) The facility sat idle for 4 years until it was purchased by Slezak Brothers, heating oil distributors, in 1952.  They used several of the old linseed oil tanks for fuel oil storage, and rented out storage and warehouse space to several small businesses over the years.  The Slezak family still owns the property.
                    Jerry 
                     
                     
                    --- On Sun, 2/13/11, Paul Charland <p.charlie@...> wrote:

                    From: Paul Charland <p.charlie@...>
                    Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Re: Amsterdam Enginehouse?
                    To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Sunday, February 13, 2011, 2:07 PM

                     
                    Hi Jerry,

                    First off, thanks for uploading the ACN photos, some I've seen before,
                    many not. They will come in handy when I start modeling the mill in a
                    week or so.

                    I did have a question about one photo that said the last linseed oil was
                    shipped out in 1946... I was under the impression they stopped
                    production in 1938 and in the 40s the mill became an oil distribution
                    facility... oil, as in motor oil or maybe gasoline. Which date would be
                    correct?

                    The lack of a coaling facility is getting to be less of a surprise,
                    there were a few "coaling facilities" on the CN that were merely an OCS
                    hopper on a siding that they pulled up beside and coal was shoved from
                    the hopper to the tender... maybe that's the case here.

                    Paul :-)

                    On 13/02/2011 1:19 PM, handyman756 wrote:
                    > Paul, I spent a good part of Friday digging through the archives in
                    > Fonda. If there was ever an engine house in Amsterdam (at least
                    > within the city limits) it isn't reflected on any of the maps (unless
                    > it was pre-1895) or listed in any of the city directories. Some of
                    > the later maps extend all the way to the eastern city limits, several
                    > blocks beyond Elk Street, but not as far as the yard and AC&N
                    > connection to the NYC. A review of the 1923 Kelloggs& Miller photos
                    > and maps does not show any structures other than the scale houses
                    > with tracks running into them. As far as coaling facilities, there
                    > were several commercial coal houses located along the length of the
                    > NYC in the city but no indication of a railroad coaling facility.
                    > Jerry

                  • Paul Charland
                    Hi Jerry, OK, that sound good, mid 40s works much better in MSTS. When was the last FJ&G trolley to Schenectady... I have employee s Timetable 100 here and
                    Message 9 of 24 , Feb 13 6:24 PM
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                      Hi Jerry,

                      OK, that sound good, mid'40s works much better in MSTS. When was the
                      last FJ&G trolley to Schenectady... I have employee's Timetable 100 here
                      and the electric schedule is still in it. The date on the timetable is
                      Sunday, September 26, 1954.

                      Paul :-)

                      On 13/02/2011 7:53 PM, Jerry Snyder wrote:
                      > Hi Paul, Kelloggs and Miller sold out the business in Amsterdam,
                      > along with their other facilities around the country, to Bisbee
                      > Linseed Oil in 1937. Bisbee operated the facility until 1948, but
                      > during the last two years used it only as a receiving and shipping
                      > mill for their other plants in Philadelphia and Chicago Heights as
                      > supplies of flaxseed were insufficient at an economical price to
                      > allow oil production here. The last oil produced in Amsterdam
                      > shipped out in 1946. (If anyone ever comes acros a Bisbee gallon can
                      > with an angry bee on the label, please let me know.) The facility sat
                      > idle for 4 years until it was purchased by Slezak Brothers, heating
                      > oil distributors, in 1952. They used several of the old linseed oil
                      > tanks for fuel oil storage, and rented out storage and warehouse
                      > space to several small businesses over the years. The Slezak family
                      > still owns the property. Jerry
                    • Paul Larner
                      Paul, Car No. 176, the last interurban car to run on the FJ&G, left the Gloversville car barn at 10:20 p.m. June 27, 1938 for its scheduled 10:30 p.m.
                      Message 10 of 24 , Feb 13 8:20 PM
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                        Paul, 
                         
                        Car No. 176, the last interurban car to run on the FJ&G, left the Gloversville car barn at 10:20 p.m. June 27, 1938 for its scheduled 10:30 p.m. departure from Main and Fulton Streets. The return trip from Schenectady commenced at 12:30 a.m., arrived in the Gloversville car barn at 2:07 on June 28, 1938 when the power was shut off forever.  At 4:50 a.m. June 28th buses replaced the interurbans.  The last scheduled FJ&G bus operated April 22, 1956.
                         
                        "Movements" on the FJ&G always operated as "trains" whether conducted on rail or highway (bus or truck).  This is the misunderstanding you receive from ETT No. 100. 
                         
                        PKL
                         


                        To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                        From: p.charlie@...
                        Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 21:24:27 -0500
                        Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Re: Amsterdam Enginehouse?

                         
                        Hi Jerry,

                        OK, that sound good, mid'40s works much better in MSTS. When was the
                        last FJ&G trolley to Schenectady... I have employee's Timetable 100 here
                        and the electric schedule is still in it. The date on the timetable is
                        Sunday, September 26, 1954.

                        Paul :-)

                        On 13/02/2011 7:53 PM, Jerry Snyder wrote:
                        > Hi Paul, Kelloggs and Miller sold out the business in Amsterdam,
                        > along with their other facilities around the country, to Bisbee
                        > Linseed Oil in 1937. Bisbee operated the facility until 1948, but
                        > during the last two years used it only as a receiving and shipping
                        > mill for their other plants in Philadelphia and Chicago Heights as
                        > supplies of flaxseed were insufficient at an economical price to
                        > allow oil production here. The last oil produced in Amsterdam
                        > shipped out in 1946. (If anyone ever comes acros a Bisbee gallon can
                        > with an angry bee on the label, please let me know.) The facility sat
                        > idle for 4 years until it was purchased by Slezak Brothers, heating
                        > oil distributors, in 1952. They used several of the old linseed oil
                        > tanks for fuel oil storage, and rented out storage and warehouse
                        > space to several small businesses over the years. The Slezak family
                        > still owns the property. Jerry

                      • Paul Charland
                        Hi Paul, That s the little tidbit I ve been missing all these years... Buses operating as Trains! Sure started to wonder when I say three Trains departing
                        Message 11 of 24 , Feb 14 4:31 AM
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Hi Paul,

                          That's the little tidbit I've been missing all these years... Buses
                          operating as Trains! Sure started to wonder when I say three "Trains"
                          departing downtown Amsterdam, all heading east with only a three minute
                          separation between trains!

                          So, guess I'm shooting for the spring of 1938 at the latest.

                          Paul :-)

                          On 13/02/2011 11:20 PM, Paul Larner wrote:
                          >
                          > Paul,
                          >
                          > Car No. 176, the last interurban car to run on the FJ&G, left the
                          > Gloversville car barn at 10:20 p.m. June 27, 1938 for its scheduled
                          > 10:30 p.m. departure from Main and Fulton Streets. The return trip
                          > from Schenectady commenced at 12:30 a.m., arrived in the Gloversville
                          > car barn at 2:07 on June 28, 1938 when the power was shut off
                          > forever. At 4:50 a.m. June 28th buses replaced the interurbans. The
                          > last scheduled FJ&G bus operated April 22, 1956.
                          >
                          > "Movements" on the FJ&G always operated as "trains" whether conducted
                          > on rail or highway (bus or truck). This is the misunderstanding you
                          > receive from ETT No. 100.
                          >
                          > PKL
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